Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1199: Why Adventure is Essential Revisited with Belinda Kirk

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Ep. 1199: Why Adventure is Essential Revisited with Belinda Kirk · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You're listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk with adventurers from around the globe to bring you the inspiration and motivation you need to get started in the outdoors or to keep you moving if you're already there.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Caleb.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And today is revisited episode we've got a classic, which originally aired in 2021.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode is Mason interviewing Belinda Kirk, the importance of adventure for your well-being and about her experiences leading expeditions and adventures across the world for nearly 30 years now.
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: She's done such adventures as walk through Nicaragua, sail across the Atlantic.
0:58
[SPEAKER_00]: She's searched for camels and China's desert of death, among many others.
1:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really great interview.
1:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoy it.
1:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's Mason.
1:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Linda Kirk, welcome to the show.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing?
1:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
1:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm great to be here.
1:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much for having me on.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know you mentioned it already, but for the listeners, can you tell us where you're coming from today
1:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're really lucky.
1:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We live in a remote corner of expore national park, which is one of Britain's national parks down in the south of England.
1:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's nice for England.
1:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It's nice and remote, anyway.
1:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Not as remote as some of the parts of America.
1:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got a bit more space there, but it's pretty lovely in remote.
1:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're pretty bad for internet often, but hopefully just enough to talk to you today.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's all you need you know and being bad on internet ain't a bad thing most of the time I wish I could I wish I had that excuse a little bit more honestly It's like I'll get do anything I we don't have internet but Well, describe it a little bit.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it like because I know I know the picture of the UK I've been in the UK a few times, but what what is it like near that national park?
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never been
2:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, the other just while we're on connectedness, the great thing about our house is there's no mobile signals.
2:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's already a good thing.
2:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very green.
2:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I know people always think Britain has a lot of rain.
2:31
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't.
2:32
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't actually have as much rain as all that, but it is very green.
2:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And export particularly is lovely.
2:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Lots of really deep-wooded river valleys, which have got a real wilderness feeling.
2:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously England's a bit smaller than America.
2:46
[SPEAKER_03]: We struggle for the feeling of wilderness, I think, over here.
2:52
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to go up to a Scotland to have a really good feeling of wilderness here, but the X-Mort is a very good close second to getting up to Scotland.
3:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a whole lot better connected because you can get to the cities and stuff a bit easier.
3:13
[SPEAKER_03]: When we sit our kitchen table, you can see barn owls and sparrow hawks and stuff, which is really, really lucky, actually.
3:24
[SPEAKER_03]: My partner is a paint spirds for a living, and so he's a, we call him a twitcher.
3:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you have that word in them in America, but yeah, he knows all the birds.
3:35
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're doing a lot to re-wild our land here and bring his much shared wildlife in.
3:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, X was a lovely little place.
3:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's also the least visited National Park in Britain, which is one of the things we love about it.
3:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So don't go telling too many people.
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But tell us about real quick.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you've talked about your childhood on other podcasts.
3:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And you mentioned, you know, you were almost a feral child.
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Was that something you had the awareness of as a kid?
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that you had some freedom, or was it something you looked back on and think, wow, that was pretty unique.
4:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think at the time, I had anything to compare it to.
4:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I think whatever you have as a child is just normal at the time, isn't it, whether you have the craziest upgrade or not.
4:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I think also back when I was a kid, which was a little while ago now, it was a bit more normal back then to have more freedom.
4:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I think children have less freedom now.
4:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially in England, I mean, it's less, I can't say I'm,
4:37
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm so sure about in America.
4:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in cities though, for example, is much harder to let your kids roam free, isn't it?
4:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I was really lucky.
4:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I grew up on a small, there's a small set of islands between Britain, between England and France.
4:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a bit of water in between, and there's a small, there's some small islands,
5:05
[SPEAKER_03]: and growing up on a small island, everyone knows everyone and there's very few, there were very few cars really, or at least not busy roads, you know, not busy big roads.
5:15
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think the two, two worries that we, that parents have, especially nowadays about when you're traffic and stranger dangers, we call it in Britain, we just, we just, we didn't have that.
5:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So I had this
5:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'd just go off all day, build dens, climb trees, find secret gardens, and just have a lot of freedom, which I know, just say, I'm so glad that I had that.
5:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And now that I've got my own son as well, we part, well, probably the main reason that we finally moved to Expo, because we were talking about moving here for years, was because we were going to have a, you know, we were going to have a son, we don't, we moved here when I was pregnant,
5:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we finally moved because we wanted to give him that same sort of start.
6:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Having an adventurous start in life really sets you up well for life, I think.
6:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree and I'm sure y'all are doing a great job out there.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Having your son also live a feral childhood.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we try to do that as much as we can, allow some freedom.
6:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to be the parent like, hey, if I was to approach what the things I approached my parents with.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: as a parent while I be able to handle if my son's approach me with those same ideas.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to be ready with answers and ready to say yes to those things.
6:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a little more willing than my parents were with me and so that's something I'm definitely always thinking about too.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But for you, when you got out, would you say you came from an adventurous family where your parents adventurous and was that encouraged or did you have to really fight for it?
6:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I was lucky.
6:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I had definitely had influences.
7:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So my main influence was my grandfather.
7:02
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a zoology professor in Africa.
7:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So I grew up with tales of Africa basically.
7:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I was born in England and raised in England when I was very young.
7:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I think about three or four.
7:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I went over to Africa the first time or maybe a bit younger than that actually.
7:22
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I went to Africa a few times
7:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And also my mother was brought up in Africa.
7:28
[SPEAKER_03]: So there was lots of tales of having African adventures.
7:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Because my grandfather was as well as your professor, he was involved with a lot of animal saving lots of animals that were brought to him.
7:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, for example, they had a pet elephant in the house, which sounds ridiculous.
7:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But sadly, when the mother of an elephant was shot,
7:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And that elephant won't survive.
7:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So because it was so young, they brought it to my granddad and they said, can you look after it?
8:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And they had it for several years until he got too big.
8:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So there was these kind of crazy stories of, or there was these stories of, I don't know, I suppose adventure, but definitely of different ways of living.
8:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think for me first, it was all about travel.
8:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And definitely, my inspiration wasn't an adventure at the start.
8:28
[SPEAKER_03]: It was all about going to Africa to see what Africa was about.
8:32
[SPEAKER_01]: How did that feel?
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it what you said at your first big adventure, maybe the most impactful in the sense of setting you on the course that your life would take?
8:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I was 18, I did finally go to Africa.
8:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And inspired obviously by these stories from my grandparents and my mother.
8:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And yes, it was definitely a huge turning point in my life.
8:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I've when I've analysed it recently because I've obviously written this book recently and I've been analysing it a lot more and thinking about it.
9:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought well actually, that Farrell Child gave me a base that I was always gonna come back to.
9:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I think if you give young children some adventure, they'll always come back to it.
9:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when I was a teenager, we moved out of,
9:21
[SPEAKER_03]: moved away from the wilderness really, moved to a city and I lost adventure and I lost the outdoors and you know that wonderful freedom, freedom of being outdoors and having adventures as a kid.
9:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So I lost it in my teenage years but I came back to it when I was about 16 to a
9:42
[SPEAKER_03]: a sort of program for adventure and also service that is run here in Britain and I think it's actually run in other countries and well it is run in other countries as well.
9:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know maybe you have an America, I know they definitely have it in Australia and New Zealand, but it's this wonderful opportunity that it gave me a chance to go back into the mountains and into the outdoors and I kind of re-founded venture and it opened a little door in my head and went
10:11
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I was 18, it gave me the confidence to then go to Africa.
10:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't really know how in a way, I would love to have kept a better diary back then.
10:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Why did an 18 year old who had barely traveled only sort of been on a couple of family holidays in Europe, suddenly go to Africa on my own, everything was terrifying, but also liberating at the same time.
10:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I worked with a biological research organization out there on the sort biological field expedition, and it just was amazing.
10:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it changed everything about what I thought I could do.
10:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It changed everything I thought about the world.
10:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I do know, I could go on and on about it forever for ages.
10:59
[SPEAKER_03]: The main thing for me was that when I came back from Africa that year, I had gone out quite a,
11:05
[SPEAKER_03]: shy and definitely very underconfident teenager.
11:10
[SPEAKER_03]: But I came back with this real sense of what was possible and also what I was capable of.
11:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I had never really believed that I could do something like that.
11:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I survived it.
11:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I came back with this, you know, if I can do that, then I can, I could do lots of other things that I've jumped off.
11:30
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if I can go to Africa
11:33
[SPEAKER_03]: join this expedition, and then afterwards I traveled around on my own.
11:38
[SPEAKER_03]: If I can do that, then I can do all sorts of other things with my life.
11:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was a huge turning point.
11:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think adventure is that big, big challenges.
11:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't necessarily have to go to Africa, but really challenging yourself for the first time in a big way, especially at that age at teenage years.
11:59
[SPEAKER_03]: you just, it can be really empowering.
12:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was what changed my life.
12:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's kind of almost what set a theme for what I do.
12:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I've always been, ever since then, I've been obsessed with adventure.
12:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think initially it was all about getting my next hit.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that, getting my next hit.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That's because that's what they feel like.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: They feel like a, and hit, you mentioned hit like a, like a drug or something that I believe, but it's almost like a hit of an artist too, like a hit song.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You feel like it's something that just elevates you.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And you work towards that next one.
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, sorry, I cut you off.
12:35
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, but it is exactly like that.
12:38
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a part of my book, which is about.
12:41
[SPEAKER_03]: um, why it makes us feel so alive.
12:44
[SPEAKER_03]: When I interviewed lots of people for my book, and um, what I've, and also through through just taking people on adventures for 25 years, I, I would often use the phrase that I feel most alive when I'm on adventures, but also when I interviewed all these people to try and figure out, I was like, I really need to figure out why adventure changes live so positively, and yet we don't seem to
13:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Adventure's not branded well, but it's really essential.
13:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet we think it's quite frivolous, it's kind of a luxury, but it isn't, it's really essential.
13:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was really thinking about, why do we feel, why does it make us feel so alive?
13:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And one thing I noticed when I interviewed all these different people was that they all kept coming up, this phrase, it makes me feel alive, what makes me feel so reliable, it makes me feel more alive than anything else.
13:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it is, you know, that hit that you get from adventures,
13:40
[SPEAKER_03]: empowerment, it's that it's also potentially depends on what you're doing but it can also be flow states, I don't know if you know about flow state, but that idea in positive psychology is that idea that when you're doing something that you've trained for and you're doing it really well and you're so incredibly immersed in that moment that everything else disappears
14:09
[SPEAKER_03]: not the right word.
14:10
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not accurate enough, but you can become so immersed and engaged in the moment that you You're in something called flow state, which is this wonderful phrase that positive psychologists have come up with That really explains some of those highs that you can reach.
14:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's all these different ways you can really achieve You know these highs achievement flow state and empowerment.
14:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, it is adventure does give you a hit completely
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: there's nothing like it.
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't seem to replicate it in other aspects of life the same way.
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Now there's still wonderful, wonderfully rewarding parts of life, but something about adventure, like nothing else seems to be able to fill that void.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: and like you can't and that can't fill the void for other things either.
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're right.
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It isn't branded.
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it isn't micro.
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't heard it put that way, but that's really what it feels like.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It does feel like a luxury.
15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: When we, you know, talk about it, but it is a need.
15:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It absolutely is a need.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you do as someone is experienced as you are?
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is definitely jumping ahead.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: someone is experienced with adventure you are.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you do to continue getting that hit or getting that feeling?
15:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it wear off over time?
15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And do you have to find new ways to get that feeling back?
15:32
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a really good question.
15:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I think key things that come to mind for forget.
15:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Firstly,
15:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you take other people on the ventures and that is where you get a whole other level of joy.
15:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And you'll have seen that with your stern or with friends that you've taken on the ventures.
15:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's extraordinary.
15:53
[SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is I think for me, I often mind understanding of a venture what I think about when I think of a venture is that it's all about leaving your comfort scene.
16:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So particularly my early part of my career, I spent a lot of time in jungles and deserts.
16:11
[SPEAKER_03]: comfortable and familiar and you know I was kind of felt like I was in control when I was in jungles particularly because I knew what I was doing and I'd done it a lot of times so I wasn't really out of my comfort zone anymore so after years of sort of it seems like I was being super adventurous but actually if you even if you're in these adventurous looking places or
16:40
[SPEAKER_03]: you're not really stretching yourself, you're not really learning anything else and you're not really leaving that comfort saying.
16:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, something that really clarified that for me and crystallised it in my head was 10 years ago, I decided to do an ocean row and I'd basically never really been in the ocean very much.
17:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually worked as a diver for a few years but that
17:08
[SPEAKER_03]: being out on the sea and openation for weeks on end, wasn't something underneath experience.
17:16
[SPEAKER_03]: But the reason that I wanted to do it was because I wanted to learn something new, I wanted to experience something new, I wanted to get out my comfort zone again.
17:24
[SPEAKER_03]: So even after having done, I think by that point, I was like, I don't know, 15 years or so of doing expeditions and adventures, I'd never really get anything out in the sea.
17:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I found a new way of getting that hit, of getting that leaving my comfort zone, pushing myself, finding out what I was capable of, and there's great adversity at times, but there's also great joy in stretching yourself and finding out what's possible.
17:58
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always a new medium to have an adventure adventure through.
18:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's always either colder environments, hotter environments.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, water literally changing the surface that you're having the adventure on the sport.
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, adventure sports.
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: There's flying sports and cycling sports running, climbing.
18:16
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of ways to experience the same place in an entirely different way, and I don't think you're going to run out of the ways to do that if you have the adventure mindset.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So after you started experiencing your first adventure, you trip to Africa.
18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you start getting into then was it was it just immediately I've got to do more like this or was it okay, it's time to go back and get a quote real job and then you just had the pull of adventure coming back for you what what was your mindset then after Africa and what were you doing I think Africa gave me
19:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember when I spoke to my, we have careers advisors at school.
19:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you have that in school.
19:07
[SPEAKER_03]: It's probably something like that.
19:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I went to my, yeah.
19:11
[SPEAKER_03]: So I went to my careers advisor.
19:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, you know, she said, what do you want to be when you go up as it were?
19:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, I want to be an explorer.
19:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And she basically said, I wouldn't ever do that and put me right off the idea.
19:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And I always remember that conversation, because I was really excited and then I came out really flat.
19:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And then so what I settled on was actually I wanted to work in adventure, filmmaking and natural history filmmaking.
19:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I couldn't be an explorer, I would work with David Attingborough and I would save the world and save the whale and that's what I wanted to do.
19:48
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's what I was 16, that was like that is what I'm doing.
19:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was partly because my grandfather was a zoologist and I had this wonderful introduction to the natural world.
20:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So I love seeing animals in the wild.
20:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I also wanted to do something meaningful and obviously I could do that, and obviously to work with someone like Dave that to be where he's a complete hero.
20:17
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, so I went after that.
20:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when I came back from Africa, I thought, actually, I seem going to try to do that.
20:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it gave me the confidence to attempt knocking on doors and just going for it really.
20:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I even talked about it possibly.
20:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember, but I never really thought I was going to be able to do it.
20:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what I did when I came back from Africa is I set myself up with a pair.
20:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought, right, I need to do a biology degree.
20:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to do a film degree, you know, a film degree, I did a film master's in the end.
20:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm gonna go and I'm gonna make this happen.
20:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was quite single-minded after that.
20:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So I got into television making adventure and natural history films.
21:07
[SPEAKER_03]: was I just, I kept being invited to help out on these expeditions because I started to build up some experience in the expedition world because I loved expedition so much.
21:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I just kept trying to fit them into my spare time as it were.
21:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And because I was freelance, I was living at home a lot.
21:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have hardly any money, but I could, but it's every penny that I made was to go on expeditions.
21:33
[SPEAKER_03]: and I ought to allow myself to do more work experience to get into TV at sort of adventure TV.
21:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I've built this kind of dual career.
21:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I never had any hardly had any cash, but always seemed to just get through.
21:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember eating rice and vegetables, rice and beans and stuff for months at one point.
21:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a bad diet.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, as far as we're health perspective, not terrible, you know, not terrible.
22:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, tea and actually pretty healthy, I should probably, yeah, something to learn, I should learn something from that now.
22:12
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I just, I knew that money wasn't my aim, it was never the important, but I had to obviously financially survive.
22:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just did everything I could,
22:30
[SPEAKER_03]: and building my career up in Natural History filmmaking.
22:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And so over those first few years, I was originally going on exhibitions and paying.
22:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Then I was getting my flights and my insurance.
22:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sorry, then I was only paying for my flights and insurance, and then they were paying all my other expenses.
22:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's like, I got more and more experience.
22:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I was going for free, or I was getting paid.
22:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was like,
22:58
[SPEAKER_03]: the threshold.
22:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd kind of cross this threshold.
23:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, I can do this professionally.
23:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just about, I don't know how exactly, but if I can, you know, once I cross that threshold, it was like, there is a chance of doing this.
23:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew one thing, there's this calculation in my head, don't you?
23:14
[SPEAKER_03]: If I get paid to do bigger adventures, I can do them all the time.
23:18
[SPEAKER_03]: If I have to save up money to pay to go on them, I'm going to do them a whole lot less.
23:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was like, that was the
23:25
[SPEAKER_03]: that was the simple calculation in my head.
23:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I kept doing a venture filmmaking and wildlife filmmaking.
23:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And I became, again, I was starting to build up a set of skills there.
23:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And I love both.
23:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't really want to leave either because I really enjoyed doing both things.
23:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And I love variety.
23:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I love challenge.
23:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, I just kept doing both things.
23:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And the reason that my,
23:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd been to some really unusual places on expeditions and that really opened the doors because a number of film crews started coming to me and saying, oh, have you been here, have you been there?
24:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you get a scene?
24:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you help us set up the logistics to get in and to get a film crew in and out safely of this place or that place?
24:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it really, the two things really married together quite well in the end.
24:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah.
24:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And I ended up working with all sorts of awesome people.
24:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I worked with David Attenberg.
24:25
[SPEAKER_03]: He's as the legend that you really think he is.
24:28
[SPEAKER_03]: He really is that awesome.
24:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And I worked with also other fantastic people, Beggrills.
24:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I know he's big in America.
24:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to think who you'll know.
24:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Ray Meiz, Chris Ryan, lots of awesome people.
24:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And lots of amazing Philp's biologists.
24:47
[SPEAKER_03]: and eco warriors and yeah just work with an amazing bunch of people.
24:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I think working with amazing people really inspires you as well.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So you mentioned David Attenborough is a really good really good person like we all think he is.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What's a lesson you learn from him?
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything that you really sticks out to you about and maybe something you you you left learning from him.
25:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Gosh that's a good question.
25:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I think having worked with David Attenborough, he's very
25:17
[SPEAKER_03]: loud or say, you know, it's not all about look at me.
25:20
[SPEAKER_03]: You can just, someone's like David Antmore, he just gets on with what he does quite quietly actually.
25:30
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just extraordinarily professional.
25:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't think that's a good question, I don't think about it.
25:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I just enjoyed working with him because he was, he was such a gentle, nice man and he was so clever and so professional
25:46
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he didn't need to make a big deal of anything.
25:50
[SPEAKER_03]: He just got on with it.
25:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of life's just about getting on with it, isn't it?
25:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about showing up and getting on with it.
25:56
[SPEAKER_03]: No matter what you do, there's especially in this social media world that we live in, there's a lot of saying that you're going to do things, or there's a lot of, I mean, a lot of social media is showing off, as well as, you know, maybe we're not even meaning to do it, but it's all about exhibiting ourselves.
26:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
26:15
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, the best bits of life is just actually getting on with it.
26:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I love doing adventures when you can turn off the social media.
26:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that it's great when they're all those brilliant adventures out there sharing their adventure, which is inspired people and I think that is great as well.
26:30
[SPEAKER_03]: For purely personal sort of purely self history reasons, it is joyful to turn that off when you're on a lovely remote expedition and just to be
26:42
[SPEAKER_03]: and just to show up in the show up every day and just do your thing.
26:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know, there's a simplicity and a beauty in that.
26:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think I'm not sure if I maybe I got a little hint of that from working on the David Attabra.
26:55
[SPEAKER_03]: He just gets on with it.
26:56
[SPEAKER_03]: He shows up and he gets on with it.
26:59
[SPEAKER_03]: No fuss.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish you could see me.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I have the biggest smile on my face just because you're in good company here with that mindset because Yeah, social media.
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a love-hate relationship a lot of the times.
27:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so important in today's world.
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't deny that But it's I think it just pulls us away most of the time of what we really want to do I'll be honest.
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to talk with my wife last night.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, how do we get more done?
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we get more?
27:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, more of the things we actually want to do done, and we were staying up late talking and she challenged me to stay off social media for, you know, a few months and see if I could see, you see if that's what's consuming those little bits of time that I seem to not have anymore, um, and I said, you're probably right.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, and also with the age of people, like you said, look at me, look at me, look at me.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It is so refreshing to see someone on top rising above that crowd that doesn't have that mindset.
27:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's refreshing to say the least.
28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Good.
28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
28:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure people would disagree with me as well.
28:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm terrible at social media.
28:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I...
28:09
[SPEAKER_03]: The irony is that I have this new book out, coming out, and I have a really...
28:15
[SPEAKER_03]: a message and that I am really passionate about.
28:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I see social media as part of my work now.
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to now engage in social media more than I ever have.
28:26
[SPEAKER_03]: In order to get the message I have out about adventure being essential, essential for our well-being and something that we need to
28:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I think if people got away from social media a lot more, they'd have a lot more adventures.
28:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, isn't it?
28:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's one of those conundrums of modern life.
28:56
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I do know another really good way that I found of getting things done.
29:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Myself and my partner sat down five years ago, and we did something called, oh, it's not sure what it's called, but we just wrote down, instead of talking about what we are plans for the future and the things we want to do,
29:12
[SPEAKER_03]: The things we want to prioritize in our time, we actually wrote them down, so we wrote down just a few bullet points under the headings of health, wealth, family, and self, I think, well, family and self.
29:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for something like that.
29:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, um, and just under those four headings, a friend told me about this technique under those four headings, we each wrote four, three, four, five things.
29:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've kept it for five, we've kept those bits of paper.
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: We've just done it again recently because we look back at them and we're like, that really weren't.
29:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Just by focusing, trying to get away some of the noise and the clutter and just writing it down, there's an act of commitment by writing it onto the paper, I think.
29:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And we put things like move to a place in the wilderness, near water, and trees, that was on our list,
30:09
[SPEAKER_03]: having a child who's on the list, so we achieve that one as well.
30:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And also just things like learning to kayak, I really want to learn to kayak, because I'm not a kayaker.
30:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we've actually, we haven't done everything on the list, but it really helped to happen.
30:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there's not time to do everything.
30:27
[SPEAKER_03]: There's so many awesome things to do.
30:28
[SPEAKER_03]: How can you fit them all in?
30:30
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got to start saying no to things so that you can make time for the other things.
30:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going off the point probably.
30:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, well, well, tell us about, I know we could sit here and talk all day about your stories and what you've done, but I know your big passion is getting other people out there and I'd say that's the whole point of this show too is just to get people to actually get out the door and do something.
30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us about the book, Adventure Revolution.
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: When did you decide, I need to write a book about this idea and inspire people to get out there and do something?
31:02
[SPEAKER_03]: It started, I think, when it worked for me.
31:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I first realized that adventure had really helped me, I just started to get curious about why.
31:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, why do I talk about adventures, my therapy?
31:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Like why do I use that word?
31:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Why do I think of it as something that saved me?
31:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think, and why do I also feel that if I haven't found adventure that I just wouldn't be as happy as I am?
31:34
[SPEAKER_03]: been as, you know, not that I'm very committed to word, flourishing something.
31:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I just don't think that my life would have been so, I wouldn't have thrived as much if I hadn't found adventure.
31:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So it all started with, you know, why has adventure helped me and my curiosity around finding out that out?
31:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're finding out why.
32:00
[SPEAKER_03]: In my 20s, as I was saying earlier, a lot
32:04
[SPEAKER_03]: My focus was about finding my next hit.
32:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, I need to feel alive.
32:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to go on adventures.
32:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I kept doing all these adventures and no matter how I could find the money, I would just find big adventure, mostly expeditions, you know, I needed to go on expeditions.
32:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And then in my 30s, I started all my late 20s.
32:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I started to recognize that actually, this was working for other people as well.
32:29
[SPEAKER_03]: So it helped me, it helped me grow,
32:32
[SPEAKER_03]: it helped me thrive, but I could see that it was helping other people as well, to be the best that they could be, to find their best lives, to live their best lives, to find happiness.
32:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it sounds cheesy, but just to find that holy grail that we're all looking for.
32:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when I realise that it's not just me that adventure works on this power that adventure has,
33:00
[SPEAKER_03]: became more and more interested in finding out how.
33:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And I read a lot, I was looking for a book to explain why does adventure help us?
33:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is it essential for our well-being?
33:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And I couldn't find it.
33:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I suppose I started writing it at that point, or at least I started researching the book at that point.
33:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I, and then now I've written the book that I wish I could have read 20 years ago, and it would have helped me a lot in figuring out,
33:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And if nothing else is in just prioritizing adventure in my life, it would have made me not feel like, you know that pressure you get when you're when parents family, even friends are like, when you're going to get a real job when you're going to grow up.
33:47
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, actually, this isn't about not growing up or not getting a real job, it's actually about living, and I'm not saying that you have to do adventure as your career either, but it is really essential to have adventure in your everyday life and in in your life.
34:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So, sorry, this is a really long-winded answer.
34:09
[SPEAKER_03]: It started with me realizing that adventure had worked for me and it had been my therapy.
34:14
[SPEAKER_03]: then after years of taking people on the expeditions, I realized that it helps other people, and there was something that needed to be discovered, and I wanted to share that message.
34:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Once I'd finally dug around, and I wanted to share that message, a really big turning point came for me.
34:30
[SPEAKER_03]: About 19 years ago, I was stood outside the Royal Geographical Society in the rain, and I'd just come back from the Amazon,
34:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I had all these young people that I'd taken it.
34:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I was only 26 years old by myself, but I was the youngest chief leader that I'd ever had at the British Exploring Society.
34:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were all back six months after the Anderson expedition, we were all back in England to present the expedition.
34:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was stood in this queue with all these young people that haven't seen six months, and it was so great to see their faces and catching up.
35:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And this woman came up to me,
35:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just thought, oh no, what is this?
35:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, is this the girl that got bitten by a bat?
35:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Is this the girl that got?
35:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it one of the many, you know, one of the many poor young people who got like, there is jungle parasites?
35:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was just there thinking, oh no, what, I'm in trouble here, you know, what's she gonna lay on me now?
35:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And she, instead, she came up and she just hugged me.
35:40
[SPEAKER_03]: She's just so she's just so changed and then she said that her daughter was called Alice and then it all made sense and Alice had been a young person on the expedition who had been one of my biggest challenges she had she had found it hard to fit in she had a lot of ongoing she had a lot of problems in her past it a lot of problems at home a lot of things she was struggling with you know she was she was basically a teenager who was struggling a bit like I was a teenager struggling
36:09
[SPEAKER_03]: a good idea, what was that?
36:10
[SPEAKER_03]: 10 years earlier, or whatever.
36:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I saw something of myself in her anyway.
36:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Alice really, really struggled at the start of the expedition.
36:18
[SPEAKER_03]: But I kept supporting her, but also gave her challenges, gave her some jobs to do.
36:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And it really helped to empower her on the expedition.
36:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And from the start, the expedition to the end of the expedition, she had completely transformed.
36:34
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'd seen that before, and I'd experienced it to some degree myself.
36:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So I kind of recognized it.
36:40
[SPEAKER_03]: But I didn't know if it was going to last.
36:43
[SPEAKER_03]: But the hearing was stood six months later in the rain in England, I was saying earlier, it doesn't rain in England, I thought me out.
36:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, hearing was stood in London, and this has her mother was,
36:55
[SPEAKER_03]: saying to me, you know, now she helps at home, she's got, she's doing much better at school, and you know, the most importantly, probably, that she has some new friends, she started to really build a friendship group, but she'd had the struggles with in the past.
37:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was just, it was just such a magical thing to hear, and of all the memories of that expedition, it was amazing expedition in the Amazon,
37:19
[SPEAKER_03]: It just hit me.
37:20
[SPEAKER_03]: There was something really important about that moment.
37:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can remember it, it's such a clarity even today.
37:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just thought, no, this is, this is something I've been seeing, but it's something that I'm not recognising or not recognising.
37:35
[SPEAKER_03]: It's something I'm recognising, it's something I'm not flagging up.
37:37
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, this keeps happening.
37:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when I run youth development exhibitions, the whole point is the youth come back differently.
37:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And over the years, that was the sort of turning point for me, but that was over the years.
37:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I've seen many, many, many people go on expeditions or even small adventures.
37:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I talk about big adventures a lot, but the book is all about also about going small adventures and people changing through going on small adventures and just finding those first steps as well as the big stuff.
38:13
[SPEAKER_03]: But this incredible transformation that happens
38:19
[SPEAKER_03]: take themselves out of their ordinary worlds, go into another world, it doesn't have to be a broad, but go somewhere away from all the usual pressures and expectations and noise, and you could just be to a national park in your own country, you don't have to go overseas, but you challenge yourself, you walk across something or you summit something or you kayak down something, and you do something you've never done before, you can have help, people can have guides, you can have people that support you,
38:49
[SPEAKER_03]: very, very special to be going on adventures.
38:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And I could go and fit that the book goes on for 200 pages about all the different details of all the different ways that adventure can help you.
38:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But for me, that was a big turning point.
39:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where I started to think I really need to research this a bit more.
39:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't know.
39:07
[SPEAKER_03]: In some ways, I started the book 19 years ago on that rainy day.
39:13
[SPEAKER_03]: but also, but probably I was a bit of a procrastinator.
39:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I was too busy having fun on adventures.
39:18
[SPEAKER_03]: So I did a bit of research, yeah, I did a bit of research, and then the research just built up and built up.
39:25
[SPEAKER_03]: But I never wrote anything.
39:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I did a lot more research about six years ago when I thought, no, this is the time.
39:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And I did a lot of interviews with people I'd been on expeditions with, some of which I'd been on expeditions with, you know, 20 years before, or 10 years before.
39:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So I could really see if there was a long cavity to this.
39:43
[SPEAKER_03]: masses of biological, sorry, masses of scientific research and I kind of tried to distill like what is what I call lead venture effect and so I've tried to explain what I think the adventure effect is in the book and you know how adventure affects us in a really positive way it helps us to heal, helps us to grow, it helps us to build really good relationships, it helps us to
40:11
[SPEAKER_03]: What do I say, grow here to grow and stretch, you know, to find out what we can do, it helps us to find meaning.
40:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I think definitely for me, I found meaning in life through adventures and what it's taught me.
40:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It helps you to face fear and to learn how to face fear.
40:28
[SPEAKER_03]: There's all these wonderful things actually.
40:30
[SPEAKER_03]: But it all started on that rainy day in London.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: about the book, what is it that people will walk away with?
40:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And what can they expect when reading the book?
40:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they hearing stories from you?
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it interviews?
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you talked about all that.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: What can they expect reading the book?
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And where will they be able to find it?
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know it doesn't come out until the August.
40:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
40:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So the book is basically a mixture of stories of transformation.
40:58
[SPEAKER_03]: People going on adventures, wonderful adventure stories.
41:02
[SPEAKER_03]: but then these transformations that happen.
41:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And their big adventures as well as small adventures.
41:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So it could just be a set of surfing lessons that changed this little boy's called Sam's Lifewood.
41:14
[SPEAKER_03]: If you have time, I'll tell you his story is amazing.
41:16
[SPEAKER_03]: But so the book isn't mixture of adventure stories and it's distilled popular science.
41:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've spent years,
41:25
[SPEAKER_03]: learning about sort of self-teaching myself, popular, sorry, positive psychology, even a bit of evolutionary psychology, and loads of loads of stuff, but that sounds really dry.
41:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I've distilled the science down into really, into sort of these sort of, hopefully, these really easy to take little nuggets that are sort of sewn into adventure stories.
41:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what I hope people will do is either the people who go on adventures and who know that there's something that is really nourishing them from doing adventures.
42:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope that they'll read the book and I'll go, yes, I, this is why I do need to spend more time doing adventures.
42:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I shouldn't, I shouldn't think, oh, I haven't got time for it.
42:09
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not important enough.
42:11
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it is fun, but it's also good for you.
42:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think we can write off adventure too much coming.
42:19
[SPEAKER_03]: We think that it's frivolous and we've got more important things to do.
42:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, actually it is really important.
42:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So you've got to fit it into your life.
42:26
[SPEAKER_03]: So the thing that I'd really love to do is for people to read the book and then go off and do an adventure that they wouldn't have otherwise done.
42:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that would be my perfect scenario.
42:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And even better for them to take someone else, who wouldn't normally do adventure stuff and help them to go and do something that they wouldn't have otherwise done.
42:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the book also talks a bit at the end about not just how we can personally live more adventurously, which is what I hope, I hope the book will really sort of push home to you you know, that it's really good for you.
43:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But also how our societies can be set up to be more adventurous through urban planning, through social prescribing, you know, when people are depressed or anxious,
43:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there are things that there is such a thing as adventure therapy and that is something that we should be using a lot more.
43:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
43:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and you asked about where you could get it.
43:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is available.
43:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it's available on Amazon.
43:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know that it's available all over the place in England and America in England and New Zealand on Australia and at the moment, I'm not sure how it's coming out in America.
43:41
[SPEAKER_03]: But I definitely know that it's the audio book will be, and the Kindle will be available in America on the fifth of August.
43:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm sure shortly after that, hopefully it'll be very available.
43:51
[SPEAKER_03]: You can always email me if you want a copy, you know, Belinda or Explore's Connect, and sorry, that's so.
43:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you can get it on Amazon.
44:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't feel like we really were able to get into your story that much, but is there anything else you'd like to share as we wrap up?
44:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't even be asked, yeah, by my book, and by two, give one to your friends.
44:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Or if you enjoy the book, give it to you, give yours, you know, there's nothing better than a book you love and passing it on.
44:24
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't want to read the book, just go and have an adventure, that's also a book.
44:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That will accomplish the same message from the book.
44:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we're going to have to have you back on to tell some more stories.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's some like specific stories and learn a little bit more from you of what you've learned over the years.
44:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to say thank you for joining the Adventure Support's podcast and we'd love to have you back on.
44:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
44:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.
44:50
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been really fun chatting tonight.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, thank you so much for listening and means the world to us that you choose a listen to this show.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to help us further, you can leave a review on iTunes, share us with your friends or family, it goes a long way to grow in the show.
45:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also support us financially through patreon.com slash adventure sports podcast, link is in the show notes.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, if you have an idea of who could be a good guest for the show, we're always looking for people to tell their story about the outdoors or adventure.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone, please reach out, email us at infoedadventuresportspodcast.com.
45:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And until then, get out there and have some fun.