Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.406: Meet Skincare’s Newest Star Chemist and Her Line, EDUCATED MESS Skincare

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E.406: Meet Skincare’s Newest Star Chemist and Her Line, EDUCATED MESS Skincare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Diablo 4 has arrived.
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• 0:20
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• 0:22
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• 0:23
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• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 0:31
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• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: I have a very special guest today, and I'm really, really excited because I have now um embarked on my journey into TikTok, and I'm finding some really cool stuff.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is uh one of the coolest people I've I've found so far in TikTok, and I'm a huge fan of her line.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: She's really doing something great, and I I just love seeing the science behind all of her products.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of the brand called Educated Mess, Alex Peggett.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the show, Alex.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so crazy.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, and I want to mention to everybody, Alex is a phenomenal cosmetic chemist.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: I watch her videos, like literally odd nauseam.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: I watch them and I comment on all of them.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: So she is very kind and she cut writes back to all my comments.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I I love it so much.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a huge fan, Alex.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: I really am, and I love watching and you know, I what I really love about you is that you really show people like the truth.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like you really uncover here's this ingredient, here's what it does, and here's another product that has the same ingredient in it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that you do that for people because honestly, I mean there's for so many, for so many years, right?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, to this day, I've not interviewed certain brands.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'll give you an example, like you know, La Mer.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't interviewed, not because I don't like La Mer, because I don't think anyone needs a$500 face cream.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: I there's no need for it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I, you know, with that being said, I want to dive into really learning about you because I really, really um admire you for your chemistry background.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I love that you keep it professional, you keep it scientific.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so I want you to tell us all about yourself, how you got into cosmetic chemistry, what was the what was the journey for you when you picked this as your career path?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's actually kind of funny because I was in school, I was studying biology and chemistry at um UNC in Chapel Hill.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I knew that I enjoyed biology and chemistry, but I am like terrified of blood.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'll pass out when I get a shot.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew I couldn't go to med school or anything.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I didn't know what I was gonna do.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's actually kind of funny because my sophomore year, I actually like literally declared my major as exercise sports science.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't know what I planned to do with that, but those classes were really hard to get.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that was like a popular major there.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I ended up, I just kept taking biology and chemistry classes and kind of accidentally my junior year.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, I almost okay, I guess I'm majoring in biology and chemistry now.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I never even took an exercise sport science class, but I had no idea what I wanted to do with it.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but also in college, I was starting to get acne and just have really bad skin, but I also have really sensitive skin.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I've always had eczema, so it's really hard to find products that worked for people with sensitive skin.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: There was no real guidance out there about like what to do with your skin, you know, that I don't know.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I would fall down rabbit holes on Google, like trying to figure out stuff about different products and ingredients that I could use.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also broke as crap at the time because I'm in college, so I don't have all the money to drop on the La Meres or the expensive routines.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: But it always like it was kind of interesting because I'm always like, oh, well, I would expect that if you spend more money, the products are gonna be better.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: But there's such a disconnect between the chemist and the marketing when it comes to skincare brands.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I started noticing that too.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I finally, I was, I would always like make myself little masks with like Manuka honey and cinnamon and whatever I had read on the internet that day.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so like my roommates would laugh because they'd come home and I would have just like random stuff all over my face.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so finally I started thinking, I'm like, somebody has to have a job of like making the stuff that's on shelves.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I started kind of looking into it and um I saw that Fairley Dickinson had a program for cosmetic science.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, I'll just apply for this because the prereqs there were I think it was you just had to have either a chemistry minor or you had to at least have taken organic one and two.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, well, I got that, so let's go.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I applied to there and I went and then I was I didn't think I still didn't think I wanted to formulate.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I want to work in like product development, kind of doing about the actual science behind a lot of the products.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um but of course when you're like we I had to take a claim substantiation class.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, it says my internet is unstable.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Can you hear me?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: I can hear you now.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, everything was good.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, just making sure.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was just it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, so um I took a class in claim substantiation, and there I realized I'm like, okay, so brands actually do have, you know, certain things that they're allowed to say and not allowed to say.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: We have to kind of undersell the products.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I couldn't have actually I I couldn't talk about products, I don't think, as in depth as I do sometimes if I actually worked for certain brands.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um since I'm sometimes I'll say, like, oh, and this ingredient was designed to do this, and someone will say, You're making a drug claim.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, No, I'm just talking about the ingredient they've added because there's two different complexes they could have added.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is what this one is designed to do.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Between the two, I think this one's better.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so anyway, so that was kind of a tangent.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: But um I didn't think I wanted to formulate, but I hated the weather up in New Jersey, and so I was just applying to any job in my industry that was in Texas or California.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the first one that called me back was a formulation job at a contract manufacturer down in Texas.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, this is not gonna be what I like at all, but this is a good foot in the door.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'll learn a lot here.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then my first like week experience as queen though, for real.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's a good move that you're gonna be.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say my first like week on the bench, I was also learning from some amazing chemists, and it was so much fun.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: They made the work fun.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: They showed me like fun ways to manipulate formulas and almost kind of blend art and science together, and I got obsessed with it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: So after like a week, I was like, this is where I need to be.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I love formulation.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'm really happy that I didn't only limit myself to looking for brand positions or marketing positions within a brand.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because also at a contract manufacturer, I was getting to work with so many different types of brands.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: One day I come in, I'm making a face wash, the next day I'm doing a body lotion.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: The next day it's a very high-end serum, you know.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I got exposure to so many types of brands and formulas that I think it was just like an invaluable learning experience, you know?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's really, really great career advice.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: I really hope some people are uh that are aspiring chemists or even if you want to start your own line, I hope you're really learning from what uh Alex is saying because I am a huge believer in the power of experience.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I tell my own influence that I'm like, listen, guys, uh you could be the most talented person in the world, but if you don't have experience, you're not gonna get it very far.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know why?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right experience, yeah.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, right, like the formulation.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: The first job I took for it's kind of funny because it was not glamorous at all.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is down a long hallway.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: There were no windows to the outside world.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember seeing certain friends of mine that were getting jobs up in New York City in these high-rise buildings after college, and I'm like, gosh, that looks so much more fun.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And here I am in non-slip boots in a lab that's like a dungeon almost, you know.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I wouldn't be able to have like learned all of the things that I learned that I think allowed for me to get to start my own line and have the freedom to work in a room with windows, um, if I hadn't have, you know, sacrificed that for I guess the the glamour or whatever of a different type of job.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, absolutely learn, you know.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, here's the thing, I'm even gonna say this because, you know, being in the science field as well, I'm you know, in medicine.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: I've spent a lot of time in labs myself, you know, biochemistry, biomedical labs.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I I can tell you, I completely relate with you, but also I want to say, yeah, we spend a lot of time in the dungeon sometimes, but that makes you one of the best researchers.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: You come out of that as being one of the best, whether it's a chemistry, you know, background you have, whether it's biomedical, you come out really knowing your stuff.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's for sure, you know, and so I really love that like we're talking about this because I have so many, I kid you not, Alex.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: I wish more people in your generation were on the same page because I'm not joking.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: I sit there sometimes when I'm hiring my own interns or even training my residents, and I look at them and I'm like, who who trains you before me?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because you don't understand the value of hard work.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's sad to say that, but it's true.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: And what really results from that is a lot of laziness, and that's really what I've seen in the skincare industry.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, go coming back to skincare, that's what I've seen, a lot of laziness.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I've seen a lot of people get sucked into this like, you know, um cycle of spending thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're too lazy to read a damn label, they're too lazy to go out of their way like you do.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, like, you know, um, for everyone listening, I'm going to uh uh write in uh Alex's TikTok on the actual um description for the episode.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I love on your TikTok how you really explain it to people so that they can get the knowledge to then read the labels and so it's not scary anymore for them.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you can't make everything, you know, you gotta be high, you gotta have this learning spirit, is my point.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you're a professional, whether you're a consumer, whether you're an entrepreneur, it doesn't matter, you know.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really my point.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was just talking to another chemist yesterday about kind of the dangers of it.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was a quote that somebody somebody mentioned, and I I was referencing it to her.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I was, I don't even remember where I heard this, but somebody was talking about like in a in any corporate setting, the way to know who you can like who actually knows what they're talking about is if they're asking questions and it's like expressing a desire to learn.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they were just basically saying the people that speak with the most conviction are not always the people that know the most about what they're talking about.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this goes back to a little bit of what you were just saying about being lazy and kind of the dangers of that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: But like there's so much misinformation out there about the skincare industry.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: It used to drive me crazy because people will say things like, oh, you can't combine retinoids with vitamin C.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you can't combine this with this, oh, you can't do this, oh, this is a poor clogging ingredient.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, did you ever go and look at why you were saying these things?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you actually look at the research, sometimes it's not black and white.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the laziness of just regurgitating what you've heard and then creating all of this misinformation out there that makes people overcomplicate the crap out of their skincare routines, like it can be harmful.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I used to complain about this.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And my business partner was like, why don't you get on TikTok and start talking about it?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like, if you want to change the way something is being driven, like the way the industry is being driven, like you have to do something about it.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be lazy and just sit there and complain.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Make a TikTok and start talking about it in videos.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: So absolutely.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, I 100% agree with your roommate, and I 100% agree with everything you're doing because that's the truth.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's the truth, you know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and what I've noticed and something you and I have in common is when I started skincare anarchy, it was exactly that frustration that led me to start this podcast, even though I'm not a dermatologist by training, I'm a trauma surgeon.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I sat really yeah, yeah, and I and I love skincare.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: I just love skincare.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're we're I'm more of a believer in like, you know, I've always had like I had acne growing up, so like, you know, I just wanted to get more into my skin rather than makeup.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I was always that consumer, you know, more gravitating towards skin.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I realized very quickly when I was on Instagram just doing influencer work, I was like, this is BS, man.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: You guys are all posting about shit that doesn't work, first of all.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Second of all, you're sharing reviews.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's another thing.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: People share reviews, and I don't think uh companies realize that is that these influencers out there, some of them, especially the ones without a scientific background, you guys, for all the entrepreneurs listening.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Before you hire a social media person, like make sure they have a background to talk about your products.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because the IK Alex, you would be so shocked.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: I could still show you these conversations.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: These girls would circulate like messages and they would be like, Hey, um, so-and-so sponsored me.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I have an image, I got it from another girl.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just write up a review real quick?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Are you serious?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is terrible.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: This is terrible.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, I'm gonna start a podcast, and guess what?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: I started inviting on the brand founders, you know, like big brands, like Skinfix, they all these amazing brands that I loved and I learned so much, and it was exactly with that spirit.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I and somebody had given me the same advice that your roommate gave you, which was if you want to learn, you got to go out there and talk to people, you know, you gotta tell them.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, that's why I I really gravitated towards you, you know, when I first saw your your content because I was like, she gets it, she really gets it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I coming back to educated mess, I actually want to ask you a follow-up question in relation to all everything we just talked about.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that is, you know, how was that for you as an influencer to launch your own like line?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, was it something that you had to like really tell people like this is why I'm doing it?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what was the whole process like for you?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so it's actually kind of funny because we launched way before I'd even posted on TikTok.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't start posting on TikTok until a few months ago.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 14:26
  unknown: Okay.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: So my partner and I, my uh Catherine, she's awesome, by the way.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: She um, I basically we didn't have a marketing background.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we're like, okay, we'll launch this line, it'll be good.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: We'll kind of spread the info by word of mouth.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I just didn't understand, like, I had not ever really been on TikTok on the skincare side of things.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, I didn't think people were gonna care what I had to say, but I also didn't understand fully how people, consumers that are buying skincare, want to like the amount of information that they want to have and the trust that they need to have in a person in order to believe what they're saying when they say, like, hey, by the way, our vitamin C is better than this one.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Here's why.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't going and explaining it well enough.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: So finally, um, I guess my my business partner is like, you just gotta get on and start talking about random stuff for skincare.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Just talk about stuff, see if people ask you questions, and then that'll I was just so afraid.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know how I'm gonna come up with enough content.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know more than four things I can even talk about.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's been such a like eye-opening experience, how much people do care to learn more about skincare.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, the amount that I have learned has been crazy.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wish I had been posting on TikTok way before launching our line because I've gotten it's given me more insight into first of all, what kinds of ingredients people care about, what kinds of misconceptions.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't even know all of the misconceptions that exist in the skincare world until I started posting on TikTok and seeing the questions people would ask.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's it's it's a real thing.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I I don't want to interrupt you, but I just want to say like Reddit too, Alex.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Seriously, Reddit is like a mess.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you go on there, I'm telling you right now, as a cosmetic chemist, you're gonna be like, How do these people not even know still what hyaluronic acid is?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: How do they not know what acid is?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, people okay, so I need to get on Reddit, is what you're saying.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, we need to put educated mess all over Reddit because honestly, Reddit is, and I know you're a huge fan of Stracia, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: The brand Straussia.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just they were they like got their start through Reddit, right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: I at Reddit, yes, and I interviewed the founder and she's freaking phenomenal.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I was talking to her about Reddit and the community, and one thing she said was there are people who want to really know this stuff.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what's crazy is I've had this argument with people that are trying on the big level, you know, like big corporate companies that want to be like, no, people don't need to know all that.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, are you joking?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody I talk to wants to know about what does this come down mean?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I'm like, well, people, there's a hunger out there for education, and if you see that, but people will come automatically, the consumers will come, and that's where I think a lot of big companies are really kind of not doing it wrong, but I think they need to really improve on is this idea of like true on the grass roots, like education, you know.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's you can't get around that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: You can't because yeah, I didn't even know, honestly.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so ignorant about certain like um internet type of things and and social media and stuff, and so I'm still learning.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's I think something I love about Catherine and I is that we'll hear stuff like this Reddit.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think certain brands that are founded by maybe even people in the generation above us and stuff, like no shade at all.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like they hear TikTok and they think, oh, this is a silly dancing app for teenagers, or they hear like Reddit and they're like, Oh, that's just where people go post memes, like you know, and it's really interesting how much TikTok has helped with our sales and stuff.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so obviously, if if people are telling me there is a community on Reddit, I will go check it out.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's girl, I can't even tell you, I'll help you find it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I guess oh my gosh, I love that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, but I mean, honestly, I think your line is absolutely beautiful.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was, you know, um just talking about it before the episode started for everyone listening.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I the reason I really love Alex's line is that it's something that I can trust.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that for me as a consumer, especially now after three years of skincare anarchy, I've talked to so many brands.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: For me as a consumer, trust is huge.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say trust, it's not this airy, fluffy, you know, like in the winds.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, as a scientist, I need to trust you because I need to make sure that what you're doing is not only I understand the FDA is not involved in the skincare industry, and that's a good thing in my opinion, right now.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because right now I think they'd cause more of a mess than help anything.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: But they're causing a mess with the sunscreen stuff, all of that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, oh my god, yeah.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: They would go crazy.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: I can just see like a FDA reps just being like, this is wrong, and this is wrong, and this is because they don't get it yet.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's no science out there yet.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: But my point is that I need to trust you as a scientist, and I think that we're all capable enough at this point through our education, through our understanding that we know when to identify brands that are actually caring about the people versus just turning out, you know.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: For example, Alex, I know I had re left a message on your um TikTok, one of your videos, and it was about mushrooms because you were explaining mushroom extract.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Oh my gosh.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I really, you know, I was thinking even in my head, I was like, I hope she puts mushroom extract in her next uh formulations.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: And you were like, You're a mind reader.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how did you know?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we are.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: There's yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's so funny because this is just bringing up a funny story that I just want to, I didn't mean to interrupt, but um, there's a mushroom ferment that basically when I was working as a chemist, um, one of my suppliers came through and they, you know, there's certain suppliers as a chemist that you work with that you're like, you know, the bigger companies, and you're like, okay, uh, I've noticed some photoshopping on some of the brochures you show us.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really trust your data that you're talking about.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: But then there are some that like are partnered with certain universities and medical universities, and they're taking drug delivery system technologies that they're learning through transdermal delivery systems, you know what I mean?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like trying to figure out how to apply pharmaceuticals to the cause, then basically what I'm trying to say is they'll take those technologies they learn and apply them to the cosmetic industry because they would take 10 years to pass in the pharmaceutical, but in cosmetics you can get it in like two years.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so those are the kinds of companies I really trust.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: So one of those companies that I trust had come in and the weekend before, this was on a Monday, and the weekend before I had been in Austin for a football game, and we were in the bathroom, and I backed up onto this like exposure stimulates your fibroblasts to go to the side of the wound and start secreting all the growth factors necessary to grow your skin back.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, this sounds amazing, and I'm actually the perfect test subject for this right now because I have two identical burns on the back of my arms.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So they had a sample for it, and I am not kidding you.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: When I made a quick cream that day with that ingredient at whatever percent they tested it, um, I took before and after pictures on both arms, and one of them healed like no scar.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was like the scab, as soon as it came off, it was just like regenerated skin underneath.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was perfect.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other side, like I still have like to this day a scar, and it's very faint.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not gonna say it was like life-changing, you know, that scar is gonna fade eventually, but it was mind-blowing to me how much more quickly the other one healed.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, well, that's that's that's exactly it.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: That is exactly it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you really, I love that story because that sums up really for me too as to why I love skin health products.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because guess what?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like we can do we can make magic at this point with skincare.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: If you really do it right, if you if you have the right team, you have the right vision, you can make magic.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I think people are starting to see about skincare and they're gravitating more and more towards.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's why you see makeup brands now being like.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we want the best skincare, you know, in our products.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because no one wants that nasty, burned skin underneath that you had when you were years old and you were tanning, and no one told you tanning is bad for you.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: No one wants that.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: We want to fix that trauma.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was gonna say what's crazy too is that there's some really great, there's like three ingredients I could think of that are phenomenal for like wound healing and scar reduction.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I gave my aunt two products with one of them was epidermal growth factor, the other one I believe was the Rishi mushroom that I was just talking about.
• 22:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And her surgeon, like when she went back, was like, okay, what is going on?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've never seen a scar heal this well.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I wish more surgeons knew about these technologies because they're given the silicone scar gels, which are helpful, but they're literally ingredients that can really act to stimulate cell renewal and get your wound healed a lot faster.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um I wish that there was, I'm well, not I wish, but I'm so glad that the industry is moving towards more educated consumers and people asking questions because there is still a disconnect between, like I said, the marketing and the chemist.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like the chemist might know these incredible ingredients that are in the youth to the people adaptogen cream um have helped a lot with wound healing.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I bet they would help with redness.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: But then if you go to a doctor and you're like, okay, I've got all this redness, they might give you something completely different.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it's something, yeah, outdated basically, because that's the catch up.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's cool that people are starting to explore, you know, outside of other areas.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: But then of course, with that comes all of the misinformation that gets spread.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, but that comes what we learn in science, which is uh responsibility.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sorry, but that's the truth of it.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Scientists are more responsible when it comes but as an entrepreneur.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can say this, I don't care if people hate on me for saying this.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's no there's not better entrepreneurs out there than scientists.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know why?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: We don't give a crap about marketing and we don't care about social media fluff, we just care about the science.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: And like, yeah, you know, like Alex is sitting right here in front of me.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: If I sat down with her, her and I could have a four-hour conversation about five ingredients because probably science.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: We love science, and so that's our goal.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Our mission, our goal, our vision is all about the science, and that's where I'm saying, you know, that consumer building trust, making an understanding with your consumer base is now more important than ever.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: And these big brands have got to get on this bandwagon because they're not doing it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: And what's really making me mad is they're stealing from really good uh people, you know.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, I know for a fact I've seen products where I'm like, you got that, you got that from a Redditor or you got it from TikTok.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because some of the some of the products I see, I'm like, who's your chemist?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Where'd you get that from?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Where'd you get your beauty from?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like sitting here and I'm like, this is why, like, what as soon as I saw your line, I was like, I have got to get her on here.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: So nobody steals her stuff because you're still in the growing phases of your company.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, and I just love it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I want to talk more about the line.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Let's really dive in because I know you mentioned you have acne-prone skin, it's something uh an eczema.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: You said you mentioned eczema, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Am I yes, I yeah, yes, you have eczema prone skin, and I know you've talked a lot about it on your channel on TikTok, and I also your your line is absolutely beautiful, it works really well for everybody out there listening.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to have eczema to use this line.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's a really great line.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that it's gentle and effective enough to where it's gonna also help you with your eczema.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: So keep that in mind.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I want to talk to you, Alex, because I want to know what were some of the ingredients when you first started formulating that you were like, you know what, this is a must-have an eczema product.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: This is a must-have as well.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: That kind of thing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, walk us through that a little bit without revealing your, you know what I mean, like your recipe to success.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, okay, so going back to real quick, I'm gonna go on a random tangent, but like with the whole education thing and how brands are kind of responsible now to educate their consumer.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Something I noticed when I started formulating, so it always bothered me, like the misinformation I would see almost from like an ego standpoint when I was in grad school.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, that's not even true.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you're speaking with such conviction, like that it just bothered me, but it didn't really affect my life.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: But when I started formulating, it literally affected me how much misinformation was being spread because I'm now working with brands where two months of we have a two-month-long project now where we're having to remove parabens and replace it with a different preservative because someone on the internet said that there was endocrine disruption.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sitting there and I'm like looking up the studies.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this isn't even relevant to the cosmetic use level and application process and all that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yet I am having to waste all of this time to use preservatives that are not compatible with the formula.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we got to reformulate the whole thing.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden I would start noticing that the formulas where I switched out parabens for phenoxyethanol, um, you know, those were now causing irritation on my face.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, so switching it out for a more irritating.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy and so I was I was starting getting frustrated because I'm like, you know, most industries, you're gonna always have the anti-vaxxers and the people that are like, I don't believe in science, I don't trust in science, and that's fine.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: But the pharmaceutical industry isn't driven by the misinformation that those people are perpetuating.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like you still let the scientists do their job in those industries, and it's like up to the consumer whether they want to buy it or not.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: But with the cosmetic industry, literally, a lot of our jobs are being dictated by certain fear-mongering tactics and greenwashing tactics that are going on as brands try to get creative to sell their product and make it seem like, oh, our product is more clean.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm working with these clean brands that aren't letting me use certain ingredients just because of the number of syllables they have.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: And like literally, it was making my job harder.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sitting there when I'm thinking about a line I want to develop.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: I, oh, and another thing that was um that I was getting interested in that led me to start my own line too, was I was started consuming some some content that I would see from you know people on TikTok and Instagram.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm noticing that like people will talk about, oh, these peptides and you know, these are great, but they're talking about peptide technologies that were created like 20 years ago.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, wow, in the last 20 years, there have been some really amazing advancements.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um so no, not all peptides are created equally.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I would be working with brands and I'm like, they they're they'd say, I want the best vitamin C technology that you have, and I would I would show them the gold stabilized.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, okay, but what percent of vitamin C is in the product?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because people are gonna want to know and they want to see 15%.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, but this is not how you formulate a good idea.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm like, but this clinical data right here is showing that this is just as effective at this percent as a 15%.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if you tell consumers it's that level, they're gonna be like, oh, there's nothing in there.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know what I mean?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, you can't compare apples to airplanes here.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not the same.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I was getting frustrated by the way, again, like I said, the disconnect between the chemist and the marketing.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I want to tell you guys how great these peptides are.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: And most peptides have, of course, have been shown, like when you actually look at the levels that were seen to be effective in testing, it'll be like 0.03% or something of the actual peptide in the formula.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: But then you've got people spreading information that if it's below the 1% line, it's not an effective level.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, okay, but we're also using these awesome delivery systems.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: But the delivery systems I'm talking about that have been shown to be so much more effective are like 20 times as expensive to add to the formula.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's the thing, that's the thing that nobody understands, and that you made such great points here is that people are not understanding that technology and science are not free.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, there's a lot of money that goes into like if I were to go into a wet lab right now, I went to the biomedical laboratory, I did a, for example, you know, uh for I wanted to look at the gene expression of you know whatever XYZ gene, right?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: In one piece of tissue.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: That entire experiment, the real-time PCR I would have to do with that, that's like a mole, like hundreds of dollars just to look at the gene and see if it's being expressed.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's an example, you know what I'm saying?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like these are expensive, expensive technologies, you guys.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like to buy like a reagent, to buy a some media to grow cells.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is thousands of dollars we're talking about here.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, when it comes to technologies and skincare, Alex, I 100% am on your side with this because I've been literally screaming this from the rooftop since the day I started this podcast was dosing.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Dosing, dosing, dosing, dosing.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Where's the dosing?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a physician and I'm used to saying take a hundred milligrams of this.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't see that anywhere in skincare.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what's pissing me off is the people who can tell you that are the chemists and you're not listening to the chemists.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: So what's making me mad about consumers is that you want something to work, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: But you also want the buzzword.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: So should we just lie and tell you this has 50% vitamin C when really it has the right dose?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do you want?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it becomes this argument, it becomes this like philosophical debate because then you're like, well, people want science, but then people also want to make sure that their packaging is telling them that the science is there.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just it's a big mess, you know?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, like for instance, one thing with the peptide technology is like I get questions all the time about like, I don't know if it's the ordinary or topology that does like the 10% or geraline, and they're like, okay, well, what percent are your peptides?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, actually, these are an encapsulated delivery system that was discovered through cancer research where they found that it was like a hundred times more effective than the same concentration of a different one.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not necessarily disclosing the percent of peptides because 0.1 sounds a lot less powerful than 10, but with the 10% one, you're just basically like I've made the analogy of it would be like without a delivery system, it would be like if your UPS driver just got to the top of your neighborhood and starts kicking packages in the general vicinity of your door versus physically bringing it to your door, ringing the doorbell, placing it in your hands, you know what I mean?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and like you would you would trust that more, but yeah, you're not getting a hundred packages that you're paying for, you're only paying for one and it's getting to you.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, like and it's good, yeah, exactly.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And also, you know, one of my biggest rebuttals, even from the biology side of things, is also when it comes to drugs, right, that we use on a daily basis.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: For example, a lot of people have diabetes.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: If I gave you insulin and I told you that this insulin is gonna do the job and it's going to be the best insulin that you can take, um, but it didn't have like a component in it, it didn't have something that was actually going to help target it to where it needs to be targeted, it's not just gonna be peed out.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you could buy that all day and you could even go repurchase that all day, but your diabetes is still not getting controlled.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the same thing applies to skin health.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: If you have something like acne and you're buying products that are not killing the bacteria that traveled into your follicles, then you're still gonna have the acne, bro.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's no there, it's not like maybe this will work because it's in beautiful packaging or or so-and-so told me that you know.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're to your point, Alex, the delivery systems are really the key here for the next step in skin health.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because the thing is that with all of medicine, whether it's skin health or not, everything relies on delivery systems, even as a surgeon.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: I can tell you that, you know.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's it's all about how well can you get that ingredient into your tissues.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: And with skin, there have been so many different eras and phases that we've been through where first it was nothing gets past the skin barrier, then it was some things get past the skin barrier.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's like, fuck it, we can put everything into the skin barrier.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, so it's like with that evolution of understanding, you have also got to keep up with the technology.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, as Alex was talking about, this delivery mechanism might be something that's able to go past those lipids in your skin membrane, into your tissues, go to the site of action where your collagen or elastin is being produced, and actually do something, which is a hell of a lot better than a bunch of molecules sitting on top of your skin that can't get into your skin.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's crazy to me.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I really don't know why we have to take so much to explain this to people.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's my biggest, my biggest argument on this, and this is actually kind of funny.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: A colleague told me this story years ago where she developed a product for a brand, and you uh you'll laugh at this.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: The girl called like a week later, and she was like, It was so irresponsible that you would include alcohol.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: She used saterial alcohol, by the way, and this formula.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: I applied the product and I got drunk, and we're like, Oh, honey, you have another problem.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it was this the tarot alcohol in your formula, but I made one of the first TikToks I made, it was kind of funny.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was responding to a video where somebody was like, Did you know your skin absorbs 60% of what you put on it?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I made like a funny response video, or at least I thought it was funny, but and I like what it showed me like getting into the bathtub with a bottle of tequila and just like pouring it all over myself.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I'm gonna stay skinny this summer.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: We are not wasting calories if we can just absorb it through our skin.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: But like, literally, we don't get drunk applying hand sanitizer.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Our skin is not a sponge.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Everything that you put on it does not go directly into your bloodstream, or the environment, right?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if that were true, all of us would have melanoma, you know.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: God bless those who do.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: I wish you the best.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, that's the stupidest thing I think I've ever heard from somebody.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that's not that's not so uncommon.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: We hear that all the time because you know what?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: We know the science, and people say the stupidest things sometimes, and it's like, you know, that's okay.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's okay to be uneducated about certain things, but to then have have the willingness to learn, yeah, exactly.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: And have the you know what?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: Also, I'm gonna say, have the willingness to say, I don't know.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: People don't know how to say I don't know.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: Can you explain it to me?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's I have had this talk with so many people.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I at my old job, if my boss he trusted me so much, and actually, it was one of the smartest people I've ever ever met, my the boss at the last company that I worked at.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I he would ask me stuff sometimes, and I'm like, I don't know, and I'm gonna get back to you.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: And for that reason, he would he trusted me a lot, you know, because he's like, All right, Alex is not gonna say something for sure if she doesn't know, because I don't want to look stupid if I say the wrong thing.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: But also, I'm like, people ask me a question, I'm like, you know what?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody else had DM me something on TikTok, and I was like, I don't know the answer, but let me get back to you.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I came back with this like long response, and he was like, You did not need to do that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Well, no, you don't understand.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you ask me a question and I don't know the answer, I will not sleep until I figure it about.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yup, you're gonna find the answer.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you're the same way.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna write a thesis on that shit.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know why?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's important enough to where you asked me and I didn't know.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: I hear you.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the same way.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm the same way.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's what makes that's what makes a difference in this world.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm genuinely telling you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: I have not met, listen, I grew up in, I'm a millennial, I grew up in a generation we looked up to people like you know, me.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up grew up looking up to Mary Curie.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know why?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because that woman never gave up, she wore her experiment around her freaking neck, bro.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: She like that's science to me.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: To me, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying kill yourself by you know radioactive.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm not saying that.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying live and breathe what you stand for and be there and you know, show up every day and want to learn.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: And if you just do that, you guys, not only about skin health, your whole life is gonna get better.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I really really believe that, you know.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I'm yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like I'm really lucky and that I found an industry that I was so passionate about that, like my nighttime reading sometime will be like I'm scrolling through UL Prospector, like the ingredient database.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I wonder what new stuff has been released because I want to read about it.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm lucky because it never felt like a job.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: But you and I are gonna have to have a wine uh date night then, because I do the same thing with PubMed.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always scrolling, always looking for the new biomedical technologies.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, I I love that.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: I really love that about you.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly good.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: You would be obsessed with one of my suppliers that I get ingredients from.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Their technology and like the data sheets and stuff are incredible.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I'll have to I'll have to give you more information on them.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess to go back to your question though, about what exactly made me want to start my own line, what technologies it was the technologies from this one company.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: So they're based in Barcelona and they do a lot of research with the medical university over there.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then they take any type of technology they discover that they could apply to the medical industry, and then they apply it to cosmetics.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: So they're the ones that came up with all these targeted delivery systems.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll take a peptide and they're like, okay, this is designed to block the calcium uptake at the synapse between your neurons and your skeletal muscles.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: But now we're gonna put it in a shell and tag the outside of the peptide or tag the outside of the shell with a peptide that specifically recognizes an amino acid sequence on the neurons to make sure all of that peptide gets released right there, rather than the peptide just floating around in your body.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're talking about these really cool technologies.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is so cool.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm developing products for brands and I'm telling them this is so cool in there.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, no, but our customers would rather hear about our geraline.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is this like our geraline?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, this is our geraline on steroids.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is our geraline if it knew where to go.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: And they didn't care so much.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I want it was frustrating because I'm like, there's some insane new technologies that are coming out, and nobody cares because they just care about what the consumer wants to hear.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: They don't care that glycerin can improve hydration by 97% and hyaluronic acid.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the time actually dehydrates your skin, but they they want to hear hyaluronic acid.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to start a brand more based on um, I guess, first of all, using like these high-end technologies, because I was like, I I want to be, I want to be able to explain this to people.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: I want to, this gives me a ton to talk about.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: I just have to be creative and careful about it just to make sure I'm not overstepping with drug claims in the FDA.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: But that was a big reason I wanted to start my online is because I was sick of the marketing disconnect and how you could have this amazing product, but you like didn't know how to explain it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so then on top of that, I'm starting to see all of this stuff like, oh, phenoxyethanol is better than parabens, because we heard parabens cause cancer.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas for certain people, phenoxyethanol is actually, I think the the rate of or the incidences of allergies on that seem to be higher than parabens.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I'm like, you know, for so and and I found out that it's more prevalent, that that allergy is more prevalent in people with eczema.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I'm seeing all these eczema products with colloidal oatmeal that have phenoxyethanol.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, if people are wondering why this isn't working for them, it could be because it's not that you're not putting enough oatmeal on your skin, it's because you're putting too much of something else that you're sensitive to.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to develop a line with ingredients, and we we don't use parabens, by the way, and it's not because they're bad, obviously, it's because our manufacturer just doesn't stock them.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I found a different preservative system that has like tons of safety and toxicology data on it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we use.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a little more expensive, of course, but worth it.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I wanted to definitely start a line where we're focusing on using the best of the best ingredients while also not conforming to the marketing standards that tell us, oh, you can't use this because it's the formaldehyde release, or like obviously, if something is releasing formaldehyde, we're not going to use it.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: But um we're just trying to basically just wanted a brand where I could talk really cool about the new technologies or talk about the really cool new technologies while also using ingredients that people might be avoiding if they're looking for clean stuff, like silicones.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas silicones are some of the most important things.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to scare people, you just want them to use the right stuff.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: You're finding ways to find the new technology.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: I get you, I get you.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really I think that is the right way at this point.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because honestly, you're not gonna, you know how they say like you can't fix someone's mindset if it's already made up, like if they're too old or something like that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like if they're past like 25.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know whatever I was reading this.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: I was reading how like we reach like true um neurological maturity by the age of 25, and then after that, it's very hard to like change things, like you know, learning a language or like you know, changing your mindset about things that are fundamental.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, so I think that what you're doing is actually the smartest way to go about this because you're introducing the cutting-edge stuff, but you're not trying to overwhelm people.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I want to actually say something about your point on um preservatives, because I think this is really, really important to talk about with a chemist here who can correct me if I'm wrong, you know.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: But for me, as a micro as somebody who's done a lot of microbiology research, a lot of toxicology research, for me, preservatives are great, man.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I love preservatives.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if it were not for preservatives, do you know how many diseases we would have, you guys?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, come on.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: Things mutating in our products, like I don't understand.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what it really gets me is that I don't know if the chemistry industry, like, you know, discipline is uh experiencing this, but what I'm finding more and more now is in the biomedical realm, a lot of papers are being published that are not being correctly peer-reviewed.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so a lot of this data that's coming out, and this is also going back to your really great point about, you know, anti-vactors and people who hate preservatives and people who ate, you know, they hear parabens and they go freak out and run for the hills.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: This, you guys have to understand that right now the scientific community is going through a very interesting time period where not everything is as pristinely reviewed as you'd like it to be.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like just other days, yeah, you would have been laughing because last, like literally a week ago, I got a paper.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: They wanted me to review it.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: It was by some group in, like, I don't know, I don't know where they were, like Alabama or something.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: And they were sending me a paper about this um specific gene that I've worked on before, and I was reviewing the paper, reviewing the paper.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me why this freaking paper had an end value of one.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: That means they only did one experiment, they have one data point and they have published a freaking paper on it.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was published.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: I was so shocked, bro.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, This is wait, are you this is a joke, right?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm really reviewing this.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm imagine if they had used those same standards when determining like if peanut butter was safe and they just happened to test it on somebody who was alert.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, don't even and or penicillin.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I mean, like honestly, here's the thing like that's what I'm trying.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: To like you know, really kind of uh uh tell people is that you have to be selective with who you get your information from because it's not just about reading a paper, you guys, it's about dissecting and digesting and then regurgitating the real essence of that science, right?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's where you need to be leaning towards when you get your knowledge.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: So when you're looking for influencers, when you're looking for people who know what they're talking about, find those people, you know, do a little bit deeper dicking right now.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's so important to look for like if I automatically lose trust in anybody that I see that says something like, you can never do this, or this brand that I would never purchase as a whatever, or you cannot combine these two ingredients.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: You you should never do this with skincare.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: I look more for people who are like, okay, so there are warnings about using these two together because of this.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Here's where this rule doesn't apply, and here's where it does, you know, and like if you see this on the label, this could be.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: I just tried it, or not tried, but like I I genuinely feel less trust for people when they speak in extremes because it's like nothing in science is really, I mean, science can be very black and white, but there's always room for an exception.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you learn that quickly, like especially like even with the allergies we were just talking about with penicillin.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure, it might be proven to be safe statistically speaking, but like there's yeah, sure, there might be one person that has a negative reaction.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean that overall this isn't a good advancement.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, exactly.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a really, really, you know, I I think that's very well said.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's the thing is is, you know, um, people, I think it's a mindset, you know, it's a mindset.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that you're taught that.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think that in science uh, you know, curriculums, well the across the board in college, we are taught to say, I don't know.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: I've said that before here on the podcast, but we are taught to say, I don't know, or I don't understand, or let me figure that out, or let me go.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's the whole point of the scientific method.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know, let's figure it out.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, thank you so much for saying that.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have, you know, I made a post about the scientific method.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: That you're like, I need to see it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: I need to go find it.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, you don't need to find it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: You already know it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like the people I made that post for were the people who don't even acknowledge that there is a scientific method.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you guys, you know, when I started this podcast, Alex, people were like, You asked the same questions.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, and you know why?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's the scientific method.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: Who, what, where, when, and why.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I want to know.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, if I don't give you that, then I'm not doing my job.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not delivering you the information you need to know about a brand.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, that's where people don't get it.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I made that post.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, you guys have to see that as scientists, we have already put into place a protocol that exists and we follow that protocol, and that is how we conduct science.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: And if you don't follow that protocol, that means that you're missing a step.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing something where you're missing key information or you're skipping over something that you shouldn't be skipping over, you know?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a huge, huge debate.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: I I hear you, trust me, I hear you.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I've been there, I've been trying to advocate for this on Instagram.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: But like you said, people are everywhere, and it's so hard to get this message across because everyone's getting their information from like 15 different places, right?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so it's very hard.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I I actually I really want to say that, you know, um, one thing I loved about your um your products, the the moisturizer is really nice.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the moisturizer for everyone listening, you can actually use it as an overnight mask.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: I've done that before, and it works really well.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about the moisturizer.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love a reverse emulsion.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that product is a water and silicone emulsion because those emulsions are thickened the more water you add and the more salt you add.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas, like with a standard oil and water emulsion, you have to add these polymer thickeners.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I specifically did that product as so that you could apply like a thicker layer because once it dries down, you're left with like the network of the emulsion.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's not these thick polymer thickeners that are gonna start pilling up because I was working on a couple different night masks a long time ago, and I figured out that if you do it as a reverse emulsion, it's you you were left with such a nicer texture in the morning or at the end of the day once your makeup has worn off.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's why we did that.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm so glad you acknowledge that because we haven't really talked about it being an overnight mask, but it there was a reason that I did that as that type of emulsion.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really cool that you said that.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's cool.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm I'm glad that I picked up on it.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I really, really like it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think it's a beautiful, um, it's a great uh moisturizer for the summertime for everybody, but especially if you are more oily, it's a really great, really great moisturizer for um under your makeup.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: I really like it there because it doesn't, like you said, like uh well, I don't know if we discussed this, but it doesn't pill up at all, which is something that I've been noticing more and more with the products that I get from PR is that there's a lot of moisturizers right now that because everybody's loving that rich, thick cream texture.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing is, I'm finding that those, and maybe Alex, you can explain this to us, is like why they pill up because those moisturizers for me, that's those are night.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can't use those in the day.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: If I use them in the day, my entire everything I put on top will peel up.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just gonna look terrible.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, why is that?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: Why do we have pilling?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is the the real science behind that, Alex?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: So there are when like I was talking about with a state, like to thicken up your water phase, and most cosmetic products are gonna be like, I don't know, 70, 80% water, even moisturizers that are thick.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: You add for a standard type of emulsion, you've got the oil trapped inside of the water, external phases water, and you've got waxes in there and oils, but that doesn't really thicken the formula.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you tend to have to add like a carbomer or a cross polymer, like acrylates cross-polymer or copolymer is another one.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there are all these different types of polymers and powders and like starches that you can add that will thicken the water phase, but those don't absorb into skin, like they they kind of are left on the surface.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if you then add something on top that's incompatible, well, or not even incompatible, but um I get it, I gave an example actually in a video.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if you've got these water-based thickeners that are kind of almost forming a thin film on the surface of your skin, and then you're adding something with silicones that don't want to absorb into that thickener, um, you you could start to get some peeling as it's like a layer of a water, a water-based uh hydrophilic film, and then you've got the hydrophobic film.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Those don't really mix too well.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of makeups and foundations and sunscreens are going to have a lot of hydrophobic ingredients.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, a lot of foundations in general are reverse emulsions like our sake bond that I was just talking about, um, which is another reason we did a reverse emulsion because it makes it very compatible with moisturizers and makeup, or not moisturizers, SPF and makeup, because a lot of those tend to be a reverse emulsion as well, to kind of inherently give the product a waterproof characteristic, because you've got the then you've got the hydrophobic phase on the outside.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: So another like, and when I did a video, I was kind of showing, I was like, I could put this dimethicone cross-polymer at 100% on my hand, and then water is gonna beat up on top of it.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like water doesn't just rub into that.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: So if you've got that water with these polymer thickeners in it, it doesn't have anywhere to go, it's not gonna be, it's not gonna spread evenly over the silicone layer, it's gonna start balling up to kind of minimize the contact.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's that's just basically water and oil have to be combined in the right way.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just have yeah, and some, you know, some of those thickeners nowadays, the ones that I typically use, like if I'm doing a formula, I will use ones that have an emulsifying capability.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: There are certain um there are certain thickeners out there that will give that they they can like um emulsify an oil phase.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that that kind of helps if you're doing a water-based formula.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you can get a little bit more of the mixing when you do apply something incompatible on top.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: But for the most part, I just I try to avoid a lot of thickeners.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm if I need a thick product, I'm probably gonna go with a reverse emulsion.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: I really love that.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, Alex, I love that you have such a deep understanding of your craft.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm genuinely one of your biggest fans.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm one of your biggest fans.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: I really gosh, you're so sweet.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's kind of funny because I have I have pretty bad ADD, so I've never really listened to podcasts.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went and listened to yours, like a uh several of the episodes, and I was like, wait, this is fascinating.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I I'm I'm quickly becoming one of your biggest fans too.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's awesome.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_03: That means the world to me.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I hope you enjoy some of those episodes.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: We've had over 400 now, which is kind of crazy because I think back memory.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I wish you could have seen.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was sitting with my business partner when I got your email that was like asking me to come on, and I was so flattered.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what the hell?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, excuse me.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just I was like, oh my god, I'm so excited.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I was like, why would she have me on there?
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but I'm gonna run with it.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I got really you humble me.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm I'm I'm the one that's honored.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: I really am a huge fan of your line, your work.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: You are doing great work in it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just I just can't wait to see everything that you come out with.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: For everyone listening, though, I want you guys right now go to www.educated messalloneword.com.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_03: Check out the lines, beautiful line, guys.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: It really is.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: The serum is so lovely.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, I was gonna say, I can't wait for you to see the new packaging too, because I will say really quick, like, I'm not a marketing mind.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I you know, I'm the chemist.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we released everything and then we we brought in a new, another partner that is much more like visual and marketing-based.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually hired a branding agency to redo all of our packaging and marketing, and so it's gonna look really cool.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: I believe we're launching all of that on like February 1st.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'm so excited to send you the new stuff, and I can't wait for you guys to all see like the new visuals because I love all of our products, I think they're great, but there was always this I didn't feel like our visuals were like portraying the brand message.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can be educated, sophistication, the sophistication.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: Be educated while you're living your best life.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like our products are designed to support all lifestyles.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, like our hair, the dog mask is great.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you've gone out the night before work and you don't want to look hungover, it can help a little bit with that.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you can still be a mess, but as long as you're educated about your products, like you your skin doesn't have to suffer.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so our new Vigi interesting, like it's gonna look really cool.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm just really excited.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really excited.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to see it, and I can't wait to show it off because um, I like I said, the line is absolutely gorgeous as it is with the formulation.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I can't wait to see how gorgeous it's gonna be with the new packaging.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm very excited.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it's gonna turn out beautiful.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_03: And for everyone listening, like I said, educatedmask.com, guys, go check it out.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great brand.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Buy all the products, you're gonna love all of them.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's literally, I mean, Alex, I don't think you could do it if you tried.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: There's no redundancies here.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's literally a you know, a line that is just it just works.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Every product works.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's three products right now, they're beautiful products.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: The mask is awesome.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I love masks for everyone listening.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I love this one.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a really nice bubble mask, and it doesn't make your skin feel weird like some of them do.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: It makes it feel actually really rejuvenated when you're putting it on, like someone's doing a like a facial on you.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it feels like.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: So that was our goal.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you did that.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's so so good.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not a fan of, like I said, a bubble mask at all.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: This is the only one I use.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm a huge fan, and the serum is beautiful, the moisturizer, like I said, beautiful.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: So everything, genuinely, go get it.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for all of those kind words.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Seriously, it means the world.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Those formulas are like my babies.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, I see friends that have kids and they get so proud of their kids for every little accomplishment.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I feel.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's kind of equivalent when I get a compliment on one of my formulas.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, that's my baby.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I know.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: I hear you, and it's very those compliments are all very well deserved.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: You've done a fantastic job.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and you know, I can't wait for part two because you know I'm gonna bug you to come back on.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's gonna happen.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: I will come on whenever you want me to.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: I will drop everything.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: Good, good.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm I'm excited.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: I I think we can have great conversations.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: And for everyone listening, if you have any questions actually about chemistry, about cosmetic chemistry, leave them in the comments, you know, shoot us an email.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'll pass them to Alex and we'll see what we can come up with as for an answer for you.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, Alex, thank you so much.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: This has been lovely.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is amazing.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: I had so much fun.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone listening, I'll be back next time.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: But if you do get a chance, please go on to Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcast, leave us a rating, a review.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: It really helps us shine.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: But thank you, and I will be back next time.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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• 56:18
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• 57:07
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• 57:13
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• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.