Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / A career move from Actuary to Self employed IFA, Why Daniel chose Financial Planning as a career

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A career move from Actuary to Self employed IFA, Why Daniel chose Financial Planning as a career · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest is Daniel Wiltshire.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Daniel is an independent financial advisor.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: He has his own practice, Wiltshire Wealth.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Prior to working as an independent financial advisor, he was actually an actuary and a very successful actuary.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: He made a very good living out of it.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you wouldn't naturally think that somebody would move from being an actuary into becoming a financial planner.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: You don't sort of associate the attributes or skills of an actuary to an independent financial advisor.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we quiz him a little bit about that.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: What his learnings are, how he found that transition.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about his route into financial planning.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: He went down the academy route with one of the large academies in the UK.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk about his experience.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: He chose not to go employed, he chose to go self-employed.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk about the realities of going two-footed and very brave, I must admit, into self-employment and running his own firm.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really interesting subject matter.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I share also my experience of working with self-employed financial advisors and what to watch out for and things to think about.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: We cover all sorts of topics.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really interesting podcast for anybody that's interested in perhaps running their business and the realities of doing that, especially in those early stages.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Daniel, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast, the second one of 2021.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing, mate?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm well, thanks, Sam.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Top man, excellent.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, we've spoken off camera.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a little bit of a chat over the telephone, and um, I think we got on really well, and which is which is why today I'm you know I wanted to bring you on the podcast.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: You, your journey with into into financial planning is slightly different from the the normal routine.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you yourself um studied and practiced as an actuary for quite some time, for quite a few years.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, to start off, really, first off, can you just explain what an actuary is and what an actuary does for those that don't really know?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a very good question.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so so actuaries it's a it's a fairly uh niche profession.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um lots of people haven't heard of it.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um primarily, traditionally, they've worked in in insurance, um, pensions, designing the products, um, looking into things like mortality, how long we're gonna live trying to to calculate sort of you know things like that.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's very technical and in some respects quite quite narrow.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh yeah, so so I spent um seven years uh training and studying to do that before um deciding to switch over a couple of years ago.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so quite a technical role.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you're kind of working, so when you say like things like mortality rate and stuff, so is it a big it's a very data-driven type role, is it?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're bringing in lots of data and working out the risk factors involved in certain things or and and trying to then, I don't know, you mentioned about pensions, but build a product that suits the risk factor or the expectancy of life.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're planning, you're basically trying to predict the future, is that the kind of thing an actory does?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's about understanding risk, it's about um calculating um the probabilities around things like like mortality in order to um in order to price and design products like annuities uh and life insurance as well.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, um you, for example, were viewer to to get a quote for life insurance, I would expect that to be considerably cheaper than than somebody that was in their sort of 50s, for example.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that's all to do with the calculations that are done by actually in the background.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's a very technical job then.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you tend to find that people do that type of job come from a sort of mathematician background?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did they study maths to do to become an actuary?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the type of typical route?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So typically typically it it attracts sort of math students.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I studied economics and finance, but but I'd always um uh enjoy the sort of more mathematical sort of modules at university, that sort of thing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, no, it is very technical, um, it is it is quite um intense, and so you've really got to enjoy numbers and juggling numbers um really in order to to sort of um uh be successful as an actuary, certainly.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um I historically have placed a few actuies as well into companies.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I remember we placed one into AXA.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my my sort of memory of actuaries was they're very similar to financial planning in the sense that you have to qualify to become an actuary.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there are different levels of of actuary.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's quite a difficult and time-consuming process, I suppose, similar to financial planning, to be able to get yourself up to the level of fellow, uh, for example, and being considered a true actuary.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um did you find the similarities between being an actuary and then moving into financial planning?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find there are similarities?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't come across many actuies that move into financial planning.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really intrigued to understand are there similarities from being an actuary to becoming a financial planner?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And second to that, why did you move from being an actuary into becoming a financial planner?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean it's a really it's a really interesting question.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I think there are certainly some uh similarities or crossovers given that it is, you know, but both both uh professions work within finance.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um actuaries typically you know work in the background for institutions and as I say, sort of design the products, um uh whereas financial planning I think um is much more about taking those products and and uh and uh using them to solve problems for for individual uh clients.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So whilst there is a crossover, certainly in terms of the products and the technical background, I I think the skills that are required um are actually probably quite different.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think actually, as I say, it's very, very abstract.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the time, as I say, you're juggling numbers, um, and it's very, very technical.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think uh in financial planning, certainly I've found it's it's much more multi-dimensional.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you need to be able to understand some of the technical stuff, perhaps not at the you know the depth that an actuary would, but you also need to be able to communicate and engage with clients, you need to be able to market yourself, you need to be able to explain things very clearly and concisely.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and so though those are very different skills.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think certainly for me, um, coming from a technical background has been very different to most people who tend to come in from a sales background.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been quite difficult.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So would you say that moving from an actuary into a financial planning position, um, naturally the skill set an actuary would have isn't relationship focused.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it isn't that client-facing side or having to build um a relationship, um, seller product or to um sell a service, because you're pretty much as an actuary, I suppose, more data-driven, more technical, whereas financial planners are more nowadays, tend to be more relationship focused.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a huge skill set that you had to re you had to learn, I guess, when moving from being an actuary into into being a financial planner.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that was fair?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the the stereotype within the actual profession is is is is people that are they are more uh more introverted, more um focused on on the numbers, as I said before.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: That I mean, that is not always the case.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: You get lots of different types of people, you get some very extroverted actually, certainly.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: But but I think in terms of the day-to-day job, um, yeah, it's not focused so much on on the sort of commercial aspects um that a financial planner would would be faced with like building um relationships with people, uh, certainly.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, for me, that's been a big part of the things that I've, you know, the area that I've needed to work on and develop uh coming into financial planning.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, great.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for sort of giving us an overview of your background and and and what you were doing before becoming a financial planner.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'd like to sort of lead on to now is so you were an actuary, you're working as an actuary.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about how you got into financial planning.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, first off, why did you decide to embark on a career in financial planning?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh again, very good question.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think it's something that I'd I'd always like the idea of.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think whilst I introduced with the challenge and the and the and the technical side of being an actuary, I always um wanted to do something where I could work with people and I could I can help people and and um and I guess sort of work work in an area where the sort of tangible benefit of of what I'm doing is is is more obvious um for me anyway.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's been a big part of the reason.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've also always wanted just a bit more autonomy, really.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um being a financial planner enables me to to do that and and you know set up my own business and hopefully hopefully grow that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um so a number of reasons, really.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: How but how did you hear about the role of a financial planner?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not a greatly advertised role.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: We all hear the term financial advisor, or if you're in university, you're thinking about working within financial services, there's always an investment banker or something like that.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: You don't ever really hear much about financial planning as a profession.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: How did you come across it?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Did you stumble across it?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Did you actively search and say, that's what I want to do?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: How did you, yeah, how did you come about understanding the role of a financial planner and wanting to do it?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I've always been aware of you know what financial planners do and and financial advisors do.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um it I I um what my my last role as an actuary was actually at St.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I was an actuary there.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so we worked, you know, day to day, we we we used to work with the the financial planners there.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was very aware of what what they did, and it was at SJP that I I then became aware of the academy that that they have, um, which takes on largely second career.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that was my sort of route in.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fab.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you were part of St.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place anyway, because you were working as an actuary.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: You understood the role of a financial planner, you'd come across them before, especially working, I guess, for St.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: James's place.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's got nearly 4,000 financial planners working for them.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so from there you thought to yourself, right, well, that's a career I'd like to get stuck into.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you made that decision then of stepping away from being an actuary, which is a hell of a job, well-paid job, well-paid paid profession, to step into the unknown, which was to become a financial planner.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, some of the things that I come up against is that I've got people that come to me that have got absolutely no experience of working as a financial planner.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: They get their level four qualification and they might have the theory and the understanding of the technical knowledge of what they need to do, but they don't have the practical skills.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a kind of barrier to entry in itself.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you'd already admitted as well, really, I guess, at the beginning of this call that working as an actuary didn't prepare you with the skill sets required to really be a financial planner.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you overcome that challenge and obstacle?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I guess there was uh, I mean, it just takes time.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you start out.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I when I started, well, first of all, the the the academy do they prepare you to some extent.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of training, there's lots of uh uh, you know, you run through different scenarios, that that sort of thing.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that really did help to get me started.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you receive all sorts of advice from lots of people, uh, or I certainly did.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, lots of it is is you know well well meant, and and some of it is useful, but what what I found is is that actually everyone's different, everyone uh has uh their strengths and weaknesses.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and what I found is well, some of the uh advice was useful, other of it maybe wasn't wasn't relevant, and but the most important thing for me anyway was in the end sort of just just be myself and and you sort of walk work through it gradually.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: You you work out what works for you and what doesn't.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I'm I'm still developing, I'm still uh trying to improve on lots lots of things naturally.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm only just getting started really.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um I think it's probably something you know that over time you you you develop those skills.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no sort of um doubting that there is a shortage of financial planners out there at the moment, and a handful of some of the larger firms, your quilters, your SJPs, your open work, are creating these academies.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um the academy is designed to help people transition from one career into financial planning and to really go through an academy where they'll get you through your qualifications, but also build the practical skills to be able to deliver financial planning.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I for one think this is a fantastic thing that large companies are doing, and it's helping improve and increase the number of financial planners that are out there.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think a lot of the listeners um to this podcast will be at the beginning or thinking about their career, and they are probably doing their Google searches and coming across academies.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for somebody that's been through an academy and the St.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place Academy, I'd love to just ask you some questions really about the academy, just to get an overview of what actually happens, what you actually do within it, and what someone should really expect, perhaps from joining an academy.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you can only speak from a St.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place perspective.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just talk me through it then, because I know that sometimes it can take somebody a year, two years to pass their qualifications.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now, these academies um are designed to kind of speed that process up.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what was the academy like at St.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: James's place?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um so first of all there are different um tranches, uh and and uh in my case it was about 30 people, broadly similar backgrounds.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I say similar backgrounds, but many were second careerers.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess going back on what I just said, that that's where the similar similarity ends.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, lots of different types of professions.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I think uh there was a big contingent from financial services, but there were others.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was a you know a personal trainer, for example, that that moved in.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was an estate estate agent.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there are there are lots of different um uh types of people that have come into it, but largely second career is um the first three months are largely focused on the exams, so getting you through the uh the the level four exams.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's quite intense at this stage, particularly if you don't have a financial services background.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there are lots of uh tutorials and and and um there's lots of support there to get people through that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as well the encouragement of the group really does does help.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the the next um uh several months is is then focused on the sort of broader, you know, how to be a financial advisor, what is a fact-finding meeting, for example, how you how you present a recommendation, those sorts of things, and then beyond that, there there is then um uh sort of again more more support around dealing with clients and the day-to-day aspects of being a financial advisor.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's very well structured.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I would say I I I can see why I completely agree with you.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know these big firms that are helping people get into the profession really are doing a great service, um, but I can see why it does take the big guys to do it because there's a huge amount of resource that's required to train people up.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not something I think that that certainly smaller companies would be well equipped to do necessarily.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I agree with you.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's just a resource, it's time, isn't it?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the time required to do it, but there's also a cost involved in doing it as well.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are solutions for the small to medium firms to um create um an academy structure, if you like, but I don't think it needs to be in-house.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are plenty of good trainers um that are out there that can train both the qualifications but also the um the practical steps of becoming a financial planner as well.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um what I like about the academy and what I like about your route into becoming a financial planner, though, is not only were you um supported and coached through the qualifications, which can be, like you say, very difficult if you don't have experience or financial planning or even financial services.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got that element there where you're kind of um coached through that by the sounds of it, um in a classroom-based environment.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got others to bounce off of, which is always useful.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you're in your little tribe and you're all in the same position, you're hopefully coming together and helping each other, aren't you?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: That tends to be the way.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also as well, there's a focus on this practical skills of becoming a financial planner.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because more often than not, you know, a level four qualification, it's like a handbook, isn't it?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a handbook to say that you're competent in you're able to give financial planning advice.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a qualification that says you are a financial planner and that you know what you're doing on a day-to-day basis as a financial planner.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And these are the skills that I think can be considerably lacking.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what people can underestimate when getting into the profession.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's this kind of misconception that if I get level four, then straight away I will become a financial planner.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: A company will take me on.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the problems we're coming up against at the moment in the profession, which is sad because of also the advice gap that's happening, is that firms are turning away people that in their own time have spent energy in passing their level four qualifications purely off the basis of the fact that they don't have the resources and time and energy in place to be able to get somebody up to the practical skills required to be able to sit down and also pass the competent advisor status.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's one of the things we've got here.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So aging population of financial planners, lack of younger guys coming in and girls coming in, but yet a um a definite inability to deliver the right path you like, if you like, or academy route or um framework to get somebody up and running as quickly as possible.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you might be interested actually, the podcast that I'm actually releasing tomorrow is a chap called Michael Pashley.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Michael is um he's a trainer.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he's uh he's a chartered fellow.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now he and was a financial planner as well.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And when he was chartered and he was past his qualification, that was when he sat down with a client and wrote his very first bit of business, a very simple bit of business assurance.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he'll be the first to admit that he was chartered.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's very astute, very technically clever bloke, you know, very, very good.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but he struggled what to do, you know.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: He was put in front of a client on the basis of the fact that he's chartered, yet he did not know what to do in respect of a simple bit of business assurance um uh um advice, you know, the process, what he needs to do, how to position himself, the questions he needs to ask, you know, how to deliver the fact finding.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: These things were things that weren't taught to him in in uh through his qualification.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So off his own back, he's created a brand new business, financial exams, and um he has created a qualification called uh the pip qualification, um, I've forgotten what that abbreviation is, but it's called PIP.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um what that does is that once you've passed your level four qualification, so you've done your your theory, I guess, through the CII, the LIBF, whatever route that you want to take, then you can actually then take the PIP qualification, practical investment planning qualification.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: There we go, I remembered it.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you can take that qualification.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what that does is it provides you with a structure, the framework of how to actually do your job as a financial planner.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it takes you all the way through.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the handbook itself, it's like a guide to becoming a financial planner, the practical guide to becoming a financial planner.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: But what it does is that that person who's level four qualified technically sang and understands what they're doing up to the point of level four.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: It actually is a it actually takes you all the way up to level six.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the equivalent of a level six qualification in England and actually level nine in Scotland.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's great to get you up to like level six, build upon your knowledge, like um so it can run alongside advanced papers, for instance.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: It won't make you chartered, but it will get you up to sort of a level six equivalent.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what it does is it teach you those practicalities of being a financial planner, which a lot of people lack.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I see that as being a real benefit to the profession as a whole, because if someone could do their level four qualification, jump into a pip qualification, be able to go to an interview with a client and say, look, I've got my level four, but guess what?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my pip qualification, and here's all my evidence that I can deliver a fact find, I can deliver a telephone-based review, I can do this, I can do that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all documented with webcams and all sorts of stuff.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all been accredited by assessors that are fellows and um signed off by the FCA, etc.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that type of skill set, soft skill set and practical skill set is going to be hugely beneficial to anybody without the experience.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the academies are are are are are doing well, is that they're teaching both the practical and the qualifications.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a real benefit.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that qualification there is definitely one worth checking out for people that are at those early stages that perhaps don't.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Don't want to tap into an academy because not everybody really wants to go down the academy of route, you know, especially because like St.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, for example, you're a St.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place financial planner.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you go down the Academy of St.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, you've got to buy into the company.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to buy into the fact that you're going to be with St.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, hopefully for a little while, because that's the kind of model of going through the academy, isn't it?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're putting their time, energy, and effort into you and they're hoping you're going to stay there and continue on.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: But not everybody does, you know.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem is when that's the only route to becoming a financial planner through an academy, that or quilter or something else, all of a sudden it's like, well, you're limiting my options as a trainee financial planner.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So great.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you did that academy then.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: You you you learned the practical skills, you passed your qualifications.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: By giving a hundred and a hundred percent of your time to the actual qualifications, you mentioned three months.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Did you pass your level four qualifications within three months?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I and you know, I think it's one of these things that if you do dedicate, you know, as you say, 100% of your time, you've got the support.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it is doable.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, as you say, that that does not make you a an advisor or a or a financial planner.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots, there's a long way to go from from there.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's a starting point, absolutely.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think coming back to the the uh the soft skills and and and experience, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, really, because um, you know, once you've got your level four qualification um and and you know you want to sit in front of clients, okay, you don't have the experience, but you can only gain the experience by by going through that process.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again, one of the things that the academies do very well is they do get you in front of clients or give you the ability to get in front of clients um pretty pretty quickly and start building up that that that um experience, which is one of the reasons why I chose to go through that route.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did consider uh working with one of the one of the larger independent financial advisors uh several years prior to joining the academy.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and really they they didn't know what to do with me because obviously I'd I'd had uh I was a second career, I had lots of experience within financial services, but as you say, I didn't have that experience.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, so so uh no, I I agree with what what you're saying, but I think it's just try about trying to get yourself in front of people and just start start to build that experience where you can start doing the job, isn't it?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: The quicker you can get in front of clients, the the the quicker you're gonna pick up on what you need to do as a financial planner.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think, again, it's not that you know, I've got my qualification, now I'm a financial planner, I know what I'm doing.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think I talk to financial planners at varying stages of their careers, some are five, you know, five, ten, twenty years in, and um nobody knows everything as a financial planner, you know, nobody knows everything.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a lot of some of some of the older financial planners that I've spoken to are, you know, are getting into the coaching um training, you know, how best to position yourself as a coach, and because they haven't ever really delivered full financial planning.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was like pre-RDR days would have been very simple product sales.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: They'd had a selection of products and that was it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: They they never did the cash flow modeling part, they never did all the rest of it, you know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, so they're starting to learn those those traits as well.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it's a it's a multi, it's always an evolving role that I'm learning.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm learning from speaking to so many people, it's such an evolving role.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and to expect to know it all from the beginning is is um unrealistic.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I do like these academies.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that they give people the grounding to get to get in there and get in front of people.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: What about competent advisor status, though?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, people get met with the fact that, well, you haven't got competent advisor status.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: How quickly did it take you to get competent advisor status?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so let me think.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was about after about a year um that I got I got signed off eventually.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the way it works, certainly at SJP is you you have to um do a certain amount of business across the different areas as well.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't just you know write lots of protection business, for example, you have to do do some pension advice, some investment advice as well.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then that that sort of feeds into the the decision as to whether or not to sign you off.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it took me took me about a year.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you had a men when you were just still talking about St.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: James's place here because you go you're in the academy, you've got your sign off, you've got your you've got your level four qualification, you've done some practical experience.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: What what then did you continue?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Did you become a partner?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Did you decide to go down that route and um set up your own partner practice, or did you become a financial planner underneath a partner practice?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: What was your next next step?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so I did I did consider uh continuing on as a partner with St.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place, but um again, I think I I always had this idea in my head that I I wanted to be to be fully independent.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so um uh after about 18 months, I moved I moved over um and became a fully self-employed independent financial advisor, uh, which in itself was a huge uh challenge, a huge step.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was almost sort of taking it a step further because you don't you don't have the support of a big institution behind you.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's all sorts of other things that you you have to consider and and learn as well.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but again, for the reasons I I sort of mentioned earlier, I've I've always sort of um wanted that that autonomy.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that was just this this was just a natural progression for me.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that yeah, that's where I am.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Fine.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you said James's place, you've got your level four qualifications, found really for you the as a firm, and it's not for everybody.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got your level four qualification, you've done that, you've become a financial planner, you've had some experience there, but you wanted to, you wanted to a you wanted to be an IFA, so you wanted to be fully independent, yeah.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a big that was a big thing for you.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start on that first of all, then.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you want to be IFA?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why is being IFA so important?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's so much work that has to go into becoming an IFA and maintaining and and running a business as an IFA.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, why is it so important?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it a necessity these days to be IFA?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, I I don't think so.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, this obviously a debate within the profession.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's best?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it really comes down to you.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I think undoubtedly being an IFA does um throw up extra hurdles.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there's extra things to consider.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is definitely more work.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of writing business, um, it it is harder.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think it's something that you need to to really want to do and and to really sort of believe in and believe that it's right for you and your your clients, and it and it and it is something that I, as I say, I I've always felt was right for me.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I and I think that's the reason for it, but it's certainly not the the easy option.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when you speak to your clients, do you find that it's something they ask?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do they say, Are you independent?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a question that gets asked on a regular basis, or do you kind of feel that you have to explain that and use it almost as a unique selling point to your proposition?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Funnily enough, people don't.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: People don't tend to ask very much.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether that's because there is an element of sort of self-selection before they've even spoken to me.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm not sure.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I but I'm to be honest with you, I I actually think it's probably more important to me than it is to most of my clients.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Most clients couldn't really tell you the difference.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do I use it as a marketing tool?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not really.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not really.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, but by the time I'm sat in front of someone, it's it's more just about the client, what you know what, what what what they want to do, uh, rather than about you know me and and um and sort of whether I'm independent or not.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but no, it was just right for me, and that's why I did it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, lots of financial advisors can hold on to the badge of IFA like for dear life, like it means like everything.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I like what you said there.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really about what it is that I have, it's about what my client requires um and what my client needs from a financial planner.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if your focus and energy is more upon um helping somebody achieve what their financial goals are and to calm their nerves about their future, less about prestige about what you are and how you come across.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably the right way to exclude your exclude your energy, isn't it?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is to put it into the right place.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that is helping people and getting them to understand what good financial planning is, what it is you're doing and why you're doing it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Very brave to move, I think, based on my experience of the last 13 years of speaking to financial planners at varying stages of their career.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's very brave to move straight into self-employment and um setting up your own business.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as a business owner myself, I know that when you take on the decision to run your own business, you all of a sudden wear about 20 different hats.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're no longer just the recruitment consultant for me, or you are no longer just the financial planner.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have to think about every aspect of your business from you know marketing to an accountant to you know the compliance and telephones and everything.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a cost for everything, and there's a time associated with everything you actually do.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what would be really interesting today is to talk about your experience from making that transition then from St.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place into the world of self-employment.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And let's talk about the realities of that um and what you learned along the way.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, so talk to me about that then.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: What you wanted to become IFA, so you you you then decided, right, I want to become an IFA, I also want to run my own business.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do to get the ball rolling and begin the process of actually setting up your practice?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so the the first big decision was whether or not to join a network or or to try and go directly authorized.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I opted to join a network, so I'm with I'm with Sense, um, who have been brilliant, I I should say.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: They um and they they've helped me to get set up, they helped me with uh learning about how you know how to be an IFA, you know, and and and there's a lot around sort of compliance and and and what you need, you know, as well as the advice stuff you need to hold on fire, all of those sorts of things in order to to meet the the increasing burden of regulation.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they've been they've been great.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was the first step.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: The next step were were things like you know, websites, as you say, marketing, you know, just building awareness because just because um you know I I've become a financial advisor um and and you know and qualified and ready to give advice doesn't mean that anyone's gonna, you know, people are gonna start turning up and asking me for advice.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, um one thing I think perhaps even I underappreciated is is what I'm asking people to do is is really quite a big thing, you know, it's is to entrust me with their finances.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's a huge thing for people, especially when you know I I only transitioned over a couple of years ago, you know, albeit from financial services.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a lot to ask of people.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um things like websites, building a brand, you know, articulating, you know, why it is I'm doing this and um and what it is I think I can offer to people is a huge part of of the business.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly, I think when you're you're starting out, um, and something that that I don't have a background in, I I don't, you know, I don't know about you know social media um websites, branding, you know, I don't it's not something I have any experience of.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that takes up a huge amount of my time, um, and and and still, you know, it did initially and it still does.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so um, so that's another big area that that I work on, um, as well as seeing clients as well.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, as you as you said earlier, it's a it's a very multidimensional task and a huge amount of effort.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you've joined the Sense Network, and uh the Sense Network are looking after your compliance, ensuring that all your files are in order, checking everything once you've done your business.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, the decision for the business going through is ultimately down to the compliance team.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Down to those guys to make sure that you've delivered the right advice.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that they are there to protect you, they're there to protect the client.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's one area that takes away the pressure because if you're running your own business, let's say you went down the directly authorised route, not only would you have to be wearing the financial advisor hat, you would also be have to be wearing the compliance hat, wouldn't you?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Checking all your work and doing all your Gabriel returns and all those typical types of time-consuming tasks that can eat into the development of a financial planning business, let alone all the marketing and all the stuff you've just just explained there.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: But what's really worth noting here as well is that so if someone's thinking about becoming self-employed, and this is what I like, what you've just shared, is that there are still other things that you have to do.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are other things that you have to take into consideration.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, unless you have a marketing agency you work with, or somebody you know that can really explain the concept of email marketing or Google AdWords or, you know, adverts via Facebook or Instagram, all these multiple shiny things that are all told to us that will make us loads of money.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can go down a bit of a black hole, can't you, in exploring these things.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I did it myself within my business.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And before you know it, you spend a lot of money and get not a lot of return.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, because you're just trying things out, and not only that, you're you're spending a lot of time and energy doing it also.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, these networks don't, you know, from my experience, there are some that say they provide some marketing support.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: They might build a branded website for you if you took on their branding as an RI, for example.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but otherwise, it's down to you, and that's the key thing.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's down to you to do it, it's down to you to bring this business together.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, did you have a business plan before you set out on this journey?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, if someone's sitting there now and they're thinking, right, I'm gonna go alone, I'm gonna do it myself.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um did you have a business plan?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: What was your process of thinking about, right, how am I gonna win some business?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna pay the bills for the first 12 to 24 months?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: What was your business plan?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, so I did uh I did write a business plan um and I do speak regularly with a business consultant who I actually had weekly meetings with him where we discuss the plan, uh, we discuss what we're doing, you know, in the short term, medium term, long term.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is something I try and keep on top of.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one thing I would say, I think when you're if if you do go down the route of self-employment, um, you know, you've got to be realistic.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think um, you know, I knew I know a few advisors that have come into the profession and they've they've done really well straight away.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I would say they are in the minority.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think to most people it it will grow over time.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think any any plan that is developed should should acknowledge that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um certainly uh yeah, certainly where where you're expecting to get a lot of clients for through referrals, for example, that that that takes time.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, no, I think um plans plans are really important.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I another thing I'd say is you've got to give it, yeah, you've got to give it time.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think at least at least a couple of years, I think, before you really start to to see the benefits of your hard work because as you said earlier, there's so many things to consider, and there's there's lots of things you can experiment with.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Some things will work, some things won't.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it takes time to understand what works for you.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you mentioned you mentioned there about um engaging with a business consultant to help you with your business.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just talk to me about that then.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: What what um what are the benefits of engaging with a business consultant?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: What do they actually do?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so so the the chap I speak to, Mike Lusby, he's a he's a um uh an old family friend um who's been in the industry many years, got huge amounts of experience, and it's been a huge help.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, as well as helping with all the things that aren't related to financial advice, um, you know, things like marketing, for example, it's just having someone that you can bounce ideas off.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because certainly for me, you know, starting out by myself, it can be quite a lonely place to be, you know, when you're trying to start up your own business, it it can be something becomes something that you you can sort of care very deeply and passionately about.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And but you know, most people they're not interested in the sort of intricacies of your you know what your day-to-day uh uh you know life and business or what have you.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So having someone to just bounce ideas off for me has been hugely valuable.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes just articulating it to someone, you know, before he said anything, I you know, no, that you know, that's not going to work for you know, you things things become clearer.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it's been really but really hugely valuable for me, and I'd encourage anyone undertaking some something similar to speak to to someone uh like.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I I hear you there actually.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as a business, we're part of like a network, if you like, of other recruitment companies and that all come together and share their ideas.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if, say, for example, I'm saying, right, I I really want to um work a retained business model um and I want to charge people this way and da-da-da-da-da.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Has anyone ever done it before?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And before I go off and try and do it myself, which historically was what I do, I would go off and just, because I'm an expertial learner, I'll go off and just do it and then I'll learn.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having to kind of pull myself back a little bit and say, Sam, just go and ask somebody first of all.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Go and ask three or four people, trust that they're gonna give you that um that advice and that they want to give you that advice, they want to help.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really important part when you run your own business is having a network of people around you that you can turn to and that you can trust that are going to give you some great advice.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: But it's three or four people, isn't it?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's about having that collective, that collective viewpoint.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, they may have done it and failed on one of the things that you're trying to do, or they may have done it and been a success, but everything's you learn off of those people you tap into.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think surrounding yourself with people, mentors, if you like, or um individuals that um have been it, got the t-shirt, I think is in is highly beneficial.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: But also if they're from a different market as well, I found that.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll turn around to some of the guys in financial planning and ask them some questions about my recruitment because I want to hear it from their perspective.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I might uh meet up with a friend who's a digital marketing manager or somebody who's an investment manager.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know a guy who runs a personal trainer, he's a personal trainer and runs a gym.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I talk to him about what he's doing because there's so many similarities across different businesses.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're all very similar.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but surrounding yourself with those people, it does also get it off your chest, doesn't it?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it gets it out of your mind and allows you to tackle the problem without you just having multiple things shooting away in your head where perhaps might fear might be coming into it or a worry or a concern or a limiting belief is stopping you from pushing forward.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: When actually it's probably a lot easier or a lot harder than you think.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: So sharing it actually gets that benefit.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think loneliness is something that comes up quite often also when I speak to financial planners that work self-employed, and especially within that first year.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Cleona, who came on my podcast first time around, mentioned that she just sat on a sofa for like the first nine to 12 months not doing a great deal, binge watching Netflix, when she moved from HSBC into being self-employed for the first time.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it takes time to get that mojo, doesn't it, in place?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have an office, you don't have people to bank stuff of.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, going from St.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, that great big organization to all of a sudden just being, you know, Daniel Wiltshire or IFA, must have been like, Jesus Christ, have I made the right decision?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um loneliness can definitely happen within those early stages.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: So apart from speaking to like consultants and things, what else do you do to keep yourself motivated?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what have you done to keep yourself motive within your first year of business?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because COVID has come along.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's been a good year in early, and that's probably eaten into your first year of business as well, isn't it?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, the timing is uh it's not been ideal, but that there you go.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I I think things that things that I do, um, you know, I try and call people.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think having a having a conversation with someone is much more energizing than just sort of sending emails.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I try and call people where possible.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I try and get out.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like like you say, I try and talk to lots of different people as well.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I try not to focus too much on one person because like I say, I'm the energy I have for what I'm doing is is clearly going to be more than than anyone else.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to wear people down with it, but um I try and spread it around.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I suppose just sort of basic, basic things like I try and get out for a run, things like that, try and clear your head.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, certainly it is lonely.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think particularly during the pandemic, um, lots of people have found this working from home.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: It you know, you're in your, you know, you're at your desk, you're in your own little bubble.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it it is it is hard sometimes to to motivate yourself.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think um and that's where actually having lots of different things uh or different types of things to do does help.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what I do is if if I've been doing some sort of administration task, you know, in the morning, I'll I'll I'll switch it up and do something uh perhaps more creative in the afternoon.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so it's things like that.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it's um yeah, I mean, you know, COVID or no COVID, I think in order to do something like this, um, regardless of whether it's financial planning or recruitment or whatever, uh, as you'll know, you've really got to want to do it.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: You really, you know, you've really got to have the motivation to try and build it because it's it's not easy to stay motivated and you've got to really perform.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Before anyone does it, I think you've got to you've got to really, really want it.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not some a decision that should be taken lightly.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, certainly.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think a big part of running your own business is as well is about prioritizing tasks.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about prioritizing the tasks that you do on a daily basis that are going to get you a return.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's very easy to procrastinate on tasks that don't really give you um a return but are interesting.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've um always felt foul of that, where I look at, you know, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that, and I'll just sit there for weeks just planning almost in my head.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've got nothing done.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe like so many months later, that research that I did comes in useful.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's um, I think in the early stages of a business, would you agree that priority number one should be about how am I going to generate some income into this business?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you prioritize your your weekly daily tasks in any kind of way at all that might be beneficial to share to somebody else that's starting their career in financial planning self-employed?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean every day I you know I start the day by kind of you know writing out the tasks that I that I have on, you know, perhaps over the next couple of weeks and ordering them in in terms of priority.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't necessarily always do them in that order.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: As I say, I like to try and break it up a little bit, otherwise it can become quite um sometimes become quite monotonous.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously the priority is always, you know, are always the clients, and and in particular, you know, if I've got a case on that, that will be the be the priority.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when you're trying to grow a business, you always need to um keep an eye on on what comes next.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think there's a temptation naturally just to always focus on the next client, the next client, the next client.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to, if you're gonna grow something successfully, I think you need to start thinking about you know, what is my strategy, where am I gonna get the clients from?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it referrals, is it you know, online marketing, is it uh networking?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you need to think about these things.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is a balance.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a balance between doing the things that you know are proven to work and are working right now, but I think you also need to be, you know, you mentioned earlier on your you know you experiment.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is that is important as well, because you know, there there potentially are things that I'm not doing now that I could be doing that that would work, you know.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's about getting getting that balance right.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: But um certainly, you know, the the focus primarily is is is on clients and and the rest sort of follows from that.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say would be your number one piece of advice then?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if somebody was to set up self-employees, what would be your number one piece of advice to that individual?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um my number one piece of advice would be um to would be to give it time.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the most important thing.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think you need to go into it, as I said earlier, knowing that it is going to take you know one, two years uh in order, you know, before you start, start really sort of you know get getting going.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and this is this is a separate point, I guess, but but as I mentioned earlier, there are so many things to think about.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's definitely potential for for for you to um uh to not know what to focus on and to overthink things.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think when you get to that stage, the best thing to do is just to come back to to uh you know what what you naturally how you naturally are and what what you know and and just to be genuine basically and and to behave in, you know, and and to to act in a way that that that is natural to you because everyone one is different and everyone will have those on their own strengths.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think uh that would also be a piece of advice to me is to focus on your own strengths and don't lose sight of that because there are so there is so much advice out there, and there are so many things that you could be focusing on, but actually it's important not to lose sight of who you are and what what your strengths are because those those will be the things that will um you know in big you to clients and and allow you to connect with people and to be a success.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's my and what about the financials of running your own business?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, realistically, what do you think somebody should be swirling away, or what do you think they should have from a financial security perspective?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think they should have in place?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: And or not so much maybe a figure because that's individual to each person, but how long do you think they should have the ability to make sure they're paying their bills, paying their mortgage?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: What buffer should they have in place before they decide to go self-employed, do you think?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um before going to be self-employed, I mean, yeah, no, as you say, I mean, it will very much depend on on sort of individual circumstances, but given the the circumstances we find ourselves in, um, I would suggest that that it would be um, you know, you know, I think you need to prepare yourself to be to be working for at least six months uh with without you know earning very much money um in order to to not you know stretch yourself too much.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say a minimum of six months, but really, really probably more than more than that, more like a year, I would say, if you're starting out in this environment, I I think that's that's realistic.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what about things such as exit strategies?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you are uh typically younger than most financial planners out there, being the average age of 56.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if I was to become a financial planner now, knowing what I know about the profession, I would be thinking about my exit from the profession.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be thinking about what am I going to do when I leave?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: And how much is my business going to be worth?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: And is it a business that is uh saleable?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can I sell this business further down the line?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Have you invested much of your time and energy into building a plan that moves past your typical three to four to five years and more focused on your own personal retirement and exit out of the profession?
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean it is it's one of the things that, as I say, people say you should think about, you know, what is your what is your exit uh strategy, you know, beginning with the end in mind, that sort of thing.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I I do think about it.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a long way off for me.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm I'm planning on doing this for the next, I don't know, 20, 30 years at least.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's not an immediate issue.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think really though that the main question for me at the moment is do I want to just be a self-employed financial advisor where I'm, you know, I'm not taking on a lot of liability or responsibilities for employing people, for example.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And am I just happy to take on as many clients as I could feasibly service?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what I want to do?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or do I want to try and build it out into a business where perhaps I bring other people in to manage the business?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in terms of the relevance for me right now, that that is the question.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and and to be honest with you, I I still haven't quite made my mind up on that.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are pros and cons of each.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like being able to work from home and and as I say, have total autonomy and not have to worry about other people, but then I can see the appeal of trying to build a bigger business um and have people um with with different skill sets help me as well.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, I'm still I'm still sort of grappling with that.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's all down to personal ambition, isn't it?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Personal aspirations and what really you require out of your life.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've come across many a financial planner who works on their own.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's only yesterday I spoke to one um earning£250,000 a year as a financial planner, very much like yourself, building the brand online, no requirement of an office, no requirement of staff, not directly authorized AR, and um turning over 250,000 and taking the lion's share of that also.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um not only that, but building a very interesting um proposition around ethical investments also.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: So she's given herself a little bit more of a differentiator in the marketplace, but that's growing, obviously, ethical investments with the requirement to do so.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: But when I questioned aspirations and goals of where you want to go with it, I mean that's a great income, isn't it?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: For anybody, really.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great income.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's no denying that the lifestyle of a financial planner is good if you're self-employed, because you can do what you want, you can work the hours that you choose.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can pick and choose the types of clients that you work with, especially as you become more and more established.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if you wanted to build a client base up in the early stages where you're picking up clients with average investable assets of 50 to 100,000 to get you up and running, as you get as those as you progress and your clients perhaps move across into average investable assets of 500,000.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's the dream in it.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get 10 clients all with a million quid.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can do something with those other clients.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can either segment them and give them a different level of service, or you can you can actually introduce them perhaps to a trainee that comes on board, or you can sell them, you know.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of options available when you're running your own practice to help develop your career and get to a stage of what it is that you required from an income.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's the thing, it's working out.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is it am I motivated by what I want to earn, or am I motivated by building something that provides a service and and and um I don't know, it's a business, something that rivals the likes of St.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: James's place.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a tricky one.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a tricky one.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think when I speak to people, I always say to them, well, what is your ambition?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Some have got these wild ambitions that were like growing these businesses.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think fair play, fair play to you.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: They've got no, no, no, no proven experience of doing it.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's just purely a dream, you know.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I say to them, well, what how much would you like to earn?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll say, like£100,000 a year or£150,000 a year.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I say, right, well, first off, take that£150,000, write it on a bit of paper, and work backwards.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just work backwards.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: What is it you need to do to get to that£150,000?
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's£150,000 a year mean to you in your life?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then work backwards on that, and then plan that over a say a two, three-year period or a five-year period, let's say five years to go from some people are on 40 grand.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Within five years, they're earning 150.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's not bad.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Just go backwards.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: What is it you want to do to achieve that?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what self-employment allows people to do, take control really of their future and their future earnings, and also to work out then what is important, what what part of your life are you giving up when because if you're employed by somebody and you try to earn 150,000 pounds?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Man, they want their pound of flesh, you know, they wanna they want your you know, it's not unusual for people to be working silly, like one guy I was speaking to a couple of days ago.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: He's a power planner, and he was earning he was working 65 hours a week, 65, 70 hours a week.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's mental.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think personally, that to me is crazy.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're losing so much of your life.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he wasn't, and I asked him what his basic was, and his basic was like 33,000.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Christ, you're have you worked out what your hourly rate is, and his hourly rate was terrible.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it's not really gonna last very long, you know.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: And as we got talking, as we got thinking about his future, you could tell a penny drop that was like, Oh, yeah, you know, what is it do I actually want?
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because time is valuable, and I think the self-employed route, if I was to get a financial planner, I love the idea of being self-sufficient, a great outsourced team that I work with, build my online brand, build my relationships with a good marketer, so I'm not doing all that stuff myself, and that I'm focused on relationship management and I'm focused on building new clients.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if I wanted to at some point bring on somebody else to work alongside me, naturally that would occur over time.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: But my my main goal was to get to the income levels that I deem to be acceptable in the lifestyle that I want to lead.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find also as well that you attract clients that are similar to your way of thinking?
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I would struggle, I think, and I do struggle working with people sometimes that aren't on my level.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: And as much as I want to help them, or as much as I want to help them grow their business, for example, if they're hiring, if culturally they're not a fit for me and I don't feel the same way.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: I try to I historically I've worked with people and it's been like a detriment perhaps to my mental health because I'm don't I don't like dealing with them.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that do you are you quite picky and choosy around clients?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you only work with people that you deem to be like you, similar to you?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I've been quite lucky so far in that um, you know, I everyone I deal with that I've I've got on with.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I tend to find it um quite easy to empathize with with with people.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I generally I'd you know I'd I'd I'd say I tend to get on with well with people, so that that hasn't been a problem.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do I attract similar types?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe, uh maybe, and this is one thing I'm very aware of.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, lots of people um say that you should find a niche when you know when you're when you're a financial planner.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I I'm sure there is something to that, but I think when you're just starting out, I think um, you know, it's very hard to say, you know, when you've got no clients at all, oh, I'm gonna get doctors or barristers, or you know, really you you take on the clients that that you know are there are there in front of you.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um so far, no, I I wouldn't say that there's a clear pattern in the people that I've taken on.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm starting to see more, but I'm sure this is a sort of trend in the industry.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly more people that are interested in ethical funds.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um that that has certainly been a trend.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so far it's it's it's it's quite broad.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: So ethical investments is without a doubt a bit of a trend, especially with the requirement for the FCA to be delivering, you know, options around ethical investments.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um are you is that a passion of yours?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are you interested in ethical investments?
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something that you think, oh, that's what I would love to do is to invest people's money ethically, or does it not really matter to you?
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um it does matter.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it you know, personally, it is something that I'm interested in.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, certainly when you read some of the research about the impact it can have, you know, so many of the problems that we, you know, you know, uh we have today are related to or can be solved to some extent through through um you know the capital markets and and and and what financial institutions do.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think it it really is a very interesting area, but but again, it it's not it's not always about me, and I'm always very careful not to um to project my own personal moral philosophy on people.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: So whilst it is something that I I talk to people about and I explain to them that there are these options, because I think there was some research recently that that showed that I think something like half of people aren't even aware that there are ethical options, you know, still with we you know, despite all of the sort of you know the promotion and the and the awareness that there is today.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: So whilst I mention it, I I'm very careful not to sort of judge people because you know another another thing is is you know, ethical investing.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's various other sort of names for it, you know, it is it is uh it's a very personal thing.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: So one one person's ethical is another person's, you know, it it really depends.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very careful not to to to to to as I say project my own values on onto my clients too much, but it is something that I'm personally interested in.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it could be a potential for you to almost put clients off based on your personal views, and it's not really about that, is it?
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's about understanding what the client's requirements are, it's about having some selections or some options there, having the conversation, but not influencing in any way about what they actually do.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that is absolutely right.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so much stuff that you could get behind these days, you know, and also there's so much so many ways to insult somebody by saying the wrong thing.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think sometimes as a financial planner, what I'm learning from speaking to people is that you have to kind of not um impose your view.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's about understanding and getting to the crux of what that person's future looks like.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Have they thought about their future?
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: What fears, worries, or concerns might they have linked to finance?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what solutions can you put in front of them that relieve that, whether that goes down the ethical route or not, is ultimately down to the individual you're sitting in front of, I guess, isn't it?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I think more than anything is just about explaining to them the options and what what what is what is available and what's possible.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then yeah, letting them sort of decide, and then you can sort of guide them from there.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just talking about clients now again, a misconception, I suppose, with anybody within financial planning is you sit in front of a client and as soon as you sit in front of them, you're making money.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the case.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of the times you're sitting down with people, you're talking to people, you're explaining your services to them, and you're not charging them at all for that time, you know.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is part of the job.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's your experience around that?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find it um do you find that you speak to do you kiss a lot of frogs, as they say?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you go out and you do you speak to a lot of people before you actually get a client that requires financial planning?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: And also, how many people do you need to speak to before you find a client?
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and again, good question.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think um, you know, you can sort of look at conversion rates and and that sort of thing.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do I do I kiss a lot of frogs?
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I'm always sort of happy to speak to people.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, quite often, you know, it's two-way.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes you know, they'll decide that you know financial advice is isn't right for them, and and you know, that that's fine.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: But other times, you know, I'll look at it and I'll think, do you know what?
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not really sure right now it you know you're gonna get a lot of value from from this.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are a few things you can do perhaps, but you know, you should look at, but right now is perhaps not the right time.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it you know, I I think there is uh it is important to get out there and speak to people, but not everyone's gonna be a client, and that's okay.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think otherwise, you know, if you try and chase down every single client, um, you will end up just exhausted.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, it's about getting out there and speaking to people, but but but um yeah, not everyone's gonna be a client.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know that some some advisors um what they'll do is they there will be a fee, sort of a fixed fee before they'll they'll they'll talk to people, and there's lots of debate I know about contingent charging and things like that.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think the that feeds into another issue within the sort of profession um uh around how we should be charging people.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think for me, I'm quite happy to to do work before I charge people because it's about building trust.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that there's a distinct lack of trust in the profession for you know historical reasons, I guess.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think it's important to be able to show to people that you are, you know, that you are a uh someone that will that is happy to work with them and and and and is capable before that they they they sort of part with their money.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, there's there's lots of uh there's lots of uh things to think about, I think, when you engage with clients.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think trust is a massive issue, I think, around financial planning, not only from people that have been burnt by financial advice in the past, especially like the pre-RDR days.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the older generation might be might have had a mortgage endowment plan or something like that, or something that was terrible back in the day, and the idea that a financial advisor is just there to make commissions.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that old school view of what a financial advisor is.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: So building that trust is obviously imperative, but also as well, what you've got is the next generation of clients.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got, you know, the transition of wealth is a huge thing, isn't it, over the next few decades?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: The transition of wealth.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, those trans that transition of wealth is going to be greater than ever, but it's falling into the hands of 30, 40-year-olds, 50-year-olds that have grown up in the tech, you know, uh advanced stage of our life.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, and the ability to log onto the internet and get the answers to questions yourself and um social media promoting lots of people saying, look at me, I I manage my own money, I've made this much uh on Forex or whatever.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, people are managing their own money, they're coming at becoming a bit savvy.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's an argument to say that to say that they don't, although they need financial planning, yeah, there's an argument to say that they don't want it.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you come across that challenge often?
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I come, I come across it a lot actually.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as you say, I think nowadays there's so much information out there um that that you know I think if if people are prepared to put the time and effort in and are that way inclined anyway, perhaps they, you know, perhaps they work in financial services themselves.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I think you can get most of the way there yourself, certainly.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would argue that that you know, again, they're an example of what you know, perhaps financial advice isn't right for them.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a bit like you know, someone who is is very uh uh very very practical, you know, they might choose to fit their own kitchen, you know, yeah, they could do it.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but you know, do they want to do it?
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna do it as well?
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because a big part of financial advice, I mean, and actually I've I've blogged about this recently, you know, it's very tempting to to to um uh only see it through the lens of, you know, am I gonna recoup my charges through investment returns and only only consider the investment aspect of it?
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: But there's there's so much more to it than that.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's a lot around sort of you know peace of mind, um, and you know, aside from the sort of other tax benefits and things like that.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's not purely about sort of pure pure investment returns, I would, I would argue.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, it's just sort of you know understanding that you know really who you can help and what and and how to add value.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yes, certainly people, yeah, people can um uh can can get a lot of the way there themselves, but but like I say, they're not necessarily the the people that I think that I I can add most value to.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, so thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of grilled you a bit there with questions, really.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, you answered them beautifully, thank you, and articulated it really well.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one thing our listeners will get from today is just really you can move into self-employment very early on in your career.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can come from a different profession that isn't traditionally financial planning uh transferable attributes.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you can do that.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are routes such as the academy and they can speed you up and they are incredibly beneficial and practical.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean you have to stay with that academy, it doesn't mean you have to stay with the firm that offer the academy.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: You will change your mind and there will be options available to you.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to set up your own business, yeah, go set up your own business.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can do it, you've done it.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: I speak to plenty of people who do that very early on in their careers.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you've got the mindset of wanting to run your own business, go with it.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let anybody tell you otherwise.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: But expect that it's gonna be difficult, expect that it's gonna be tough, expect that you're gonna be wearing numerous hats and that if you're gonna be on your own, you're doing majority of everything, regardless of if you're, you know, part of a network or anything along those lines, you're gonna be doing a great deal of um the groundwork.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: But fundamentally, that groundwork shifts and changes.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you do a lot at the beginning, and then as time goes on, it gets less and less because you become more efficient in your processes, you become more efficient in your knowledge, you've tried and tested things that work and don't work.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: So those sort of things will sort of fade out.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: But what you're left with is you running your own business, you master of your own destiny, choosing what you charge, choosing you know what clients you work with, and ultimately how much you can earn and the lifestyle that you want to achieve.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for sharing that and being honest around it.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think anybody thinking about it now will understand that, right, okay, I do need to think about this.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: I do need to consider what my options are.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: Self-employment is the right one for me.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then I need to be realistic and build a plan about it and um realize that it can be quite lonely.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for your um time today and sharing your journey.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, have an amazing 2021 um early stage of your career.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it can only get better if you can get through something like this.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can get through anything.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I tell myself.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, thank thanks, Sam.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks very much for having me.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_01: Great man.