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How to Scale a Subscription App to $25K/Day on Meta Ads · Scalability School

• 0:00
  thing.
• 0:00
  I feel
• 0:00
  my whole
• 0:01
  history has been around
• 0:02
  identifying a good offer,
• 0:04
  that's from the affiliate days
• 0:05
  where if I can't visualize or understand
• 0:08
  the value
• 0:09
  this provides to your who your customer
• 0:12
  then you know, spending my own money
• 0:14
  as an affiliate isn't going to make
• 0:15
  So Everything.
• 0:16
  Everything comes down to problem solution
• 0:25
  And now let's take a
• 0:26
  listen to the Scalability School podcast.
• 0:29
  Welcome back to another episode
• 0:31
  of the Scalability School podcast.
• 0:33
  Zach's here.
• 0:34
  Andrew's not.
• 0:34
  And we have a very fun guest today
• 0:36
  who I'll introduce in a second.
• 0:38
  I feel like last time
• 0:39
  Zach and I were left up
• 0:40
  to our own devices,
• 0:41
  I said something questionable
• 0:42
  about not being here.
• 0:43
  He's alive and well.
• 0:44
  I think he's just cranking a webinar for
• 0:46
  for Foxwell founders right now.
• 0:47
  So he's he's doing great.
• 0:48
  He's doing great.
• 0:49
  It's just not he's just not here today.
• 0:51
  But we are pumped to have Naveed here
• 0:54
  with us
• 0:54
  to talk through his journey
• 0:56
  in from e-commerce
• 0:57
  into what he's doing right now.
• 0:58
  So I'll give you
• 0:59
  give a little bit of background.
• 1:01
  My experience with coming across
• 1:03
  like your work
• 1:03
  was with Switch
• 1:05
  Research years ago, right?
• 1:07
  So I followed you on Twitter,
• 1:08
  saw the work that you're doing,
• 1:09
  and then recently,
• 1:10
  it's like every couple of months I see
• 1:11
  we're at 100
• 1:13
  and I see
• 1:13
  we're at 4 million
• 1:14
  AR and I see we're at 10 million RR.
• 1:16
  I'm like, holy on.
• 1:17
  Like we.
• 1:18
  Yes, for sure, for sure, for sure.
• 1:20
  But it's like the growth rate
• 1:22
  looks looks incredible.
• 1:23
  And I'm sure there's there's a ton
• 1:25
  that we'll get into it that.
• 1:26
  But I'll be honest,
• 1:26
  like the thing that most impressed me
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  is the $2,000
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  a month you're spending on DoorDash.
• 1:31
  So I want to start there
• 1:33
  actually, like let's, let's,
• 1:34
  let's get the go to DoorDash order.
• 1:36
  Like what?
• 1:37
  What are we buying? What are we buying?
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  How many meals a week is that?
• 1:40
  Yeah, it might even be more than that.
• 1:42
  We just don't cook.
• 1:45
  Is is the key component there.
• 1:47
  So my wife and I,
• 1:48
  we've got kids
• 1:48
  and almost every night it's something
• 1:53
  whether it's like sushi for dinner or,
• 1:56
  you know, snacks like 9:10 p.m.
• 2:00
  because I'm usually up to like two,
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  3 a.m. grinding away.
• 2:04
  And so I got to get that, like,
• 2:05
  last minute 7-Eleven ordering.
• 2:08
  That's that's respectable.
• 2:09
  I, I had a pretty,
• 2:11
  pretty gnarly stretch of thought myself.
• 2:13
  I've toned it down a little bit,
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  but I'm the same way.
• 2:16
  Like,
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  I just
• 2:16
  I don't if I'm left to my own devices,
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  I'm probably not going to cook.
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  And I'd rather just, like, sit here
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  and then have food handed to me.
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  Just do that.
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  So, so so I get Cool.
• 2:27
  Sweet.
• 2:28
  Well, let's we can
• 2:29
  we can jump into
• 2:29
  some of the tactical stuff.
• 2:30
  So I think like it would be great
• 2:32
  to just get a little bit of background
• 2:33
  and just kind of share the,
• 2:34
  the 2 to 5 minute overview,
• 2:36
  like background like okay.
• 2:37
  How did you how did you get into E-Comm.
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  Maybe there's
• 2:40
  maybe there's a story before you come
• 2:41
  and we can get into.
• 2:42
  But switch is my first
• 2:43
  acknowledgment
• 2:45
  into the work that you've been doing.
• 2:46
  And we'll we'll work
• 2:47
  all the way through Format Finder,
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  and then we'll dig into
• 2:49
  some of the tactics from there.
• 2:50
  Yeah.
• 2:51
  So my background originally is affiliate
• 2:55
  marketing started that
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  when I was like 20 years old.
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  First
• 3:00
  affiliate network I ever worked with
• 3:01
  was ads for Doe run by Jason Active
• 3:03
  So I started off doing
• 3:06
  affiliate marketing, got pretty good
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  at that, partnered
• 3:08
  with my ex partner
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  at a performance marketing agency
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  that we had called straw House.
• 3:13
  That's Jason Christy, and we were doing
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  the performance marketing
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  affiliate model
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  for a bunch of different clients
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  in the US.
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  One of the big ones was Golden Hippo.
• 3:24
  Sure, you're familiar with them?
• 3:25
  So we
• 3:27
  we were on the scene
• 3:28
  when they first started,
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  and they had Doctor Gundry
• 3:31
  and Probiotic America
• 3:33
  and all of those brands.
• 3:34
  And so we drove a couple
• 3:35
  hundred million dollars
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  in revenue for for them
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  on that affiliate commission type deal.
• 3:42
  And then we brought on other clients
• 3:43
  like Butcher Box.
• 3:44
  We did a ton of volume for them
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  and very good butchers
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  and a bunch of other ones.
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  Giddy up. Worked with them a bunch.
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  And then after the well,
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  we ended up growing to
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  about 40, 45 people.
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  And at that point,
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  I mean, I was like 26 at the time.
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  And I was like, this is
• 4:03
  this is like very dependent
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  on a few good clients that we have.
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  It's the affiliate model. Right.
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  And we were Canada's
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  biggest video advertiser
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  at the time for meta.
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  And they were they were loving us.
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  They were flying us to Toronto.
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  And then like two weeks later,
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  they just like randomly banned our
• 4:22
  ad accounts because they were like, oh,
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  no more, no more golden hippo type stuff.
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  We loved you last week.
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  This week you're off.
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  You're off the platform.
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  We ended up getting our accounts back,
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  but it was kind of like a
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  it kind of showed
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  how much of a straw house
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  the company actually was built on,
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  the type of performance
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  marketing that we were doing.
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  And and just like
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  the model itself is being like,
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  you need to have those,
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  those that arbitrage working
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  between what you're getting paid out
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  and what you're spending on that,
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  that CPA on meta.
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  What year was this one was
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  this was like 2013 to 2016,
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  I want to say okay. So early. Got it.
• 5:00
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:02
  You guys were early. All right. Cool.
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  Keep rolling on that. And then,
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  so we got
• 5:09
  kicked off the meta for a little bit
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  and then got back on.
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  I was kind of feeling the stress of like,
• 5:13
  having 40 employees
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  and only having a few campaigns working
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  and it being like, oh,
• 5:18
  you know, our monthly net is like two,
• 5:20
  300 grand
• 5:21
  and we can do this
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  with a team of like five people.
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  So I ended up
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  selling my shares
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  to my ex business partner there.
• 5:31
  I was like,
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  I'm kind of I'm kind of done with this.
• 5:33
  We did pretty well with it.
• 5:35
  I want to take a break, got married,
• 5:37
  decided to have a few kids,
• 5:39
  and then, well, we had our first kid.
• 5:41
  And then for my second kid,
• 5:43
  we had a bunch of trouble
• 5:44
  with that, unfortunately.
• 5:46
  And it kind of that's the word
• 5:50
  like propelled
• 5:51
  the idea of switch research
• 5:52
  or started the journey of getting into
• 5:56
  building this mental
• 5:57
  health journaling brand
• 6:00
  because my wife ended up,
• 6:01
  you know,
• 6:02
  we're lucky
• 6:02
  we had access to a therapist for her
• 6:04
  for for what she went through.
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  And,
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  and journaling
• 6:09
  was a big part of her journey of,
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  you know, dealing with
• 6:12
  it was it was miscarriages at the time.
• 6:14
  And so we decided to
• 6:16
  to build out this, this brand
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  where we work with therapists, develop
• 6:19
  these mental health journals
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  and then sell them through ecom.
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  And that did really well.
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  But there were a lot of ups
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  and downs
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  where we would get a campaign working.
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  My thing was meta, like,
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  I know how to advertise on meta,
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  I know how to build those performance
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  marketing style direct
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  response campaigns, and we would get you
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  it working really well.
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  And then I would order 30, 40,000, 40,000
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  units of inventory,
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  and then it would fall off a cliff.
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  And this was like a cycle
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  that happened for three years
• 6:48
  where making a profit
• 6:49
  run out of inventory,
• 6:50
  have to order a shit ton of inventory.
• 6:52
  I'm sure you guys know.
• 6:55
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:57
  And so that was the kind of like
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  I just got bored of it to some degree
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  where I'm like,
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  we keep going through this cycle
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  and unless I make a change and snowshoe
• 7:09
  some of that risk across
• 7:10
  different channels or some organic,
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  it's just going to be a cycle
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  that keeps repeating.
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  Or I would need to be better at
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  outsourcing the generation of funnels
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  and, and,
• 7:23
  and the actual
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  ad campaigns that end up performing.
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  What did the team look like?
• 7:29
  Like up until.
• 7:30
  I'd be curious if you like. Don't mind.
• 7:32
  Feel free to keep going,
• 7:33
  but I'd love to hear, like,
• 7:34
  what the team looked like at switch,
• 7:35
  because I know you're kind of like a
• 7:37
  a solo operator to some degree.
• 7:39
  And I want to know,
• 7:40
  like how Big switch
• 7:41
  actually turned into
• 7:43
  and tell us about that.
• 7:44
  It did like mid
• 7:47
  like 5 to 9 million in revenue
• 7:51
  per year for about four years.
• 7:54
  And the team was like me
• 7:57
  on all the marketing,
• 7:58
  one person
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  doing some organic and social,
• 8:02
  a customer service agent
• 8:03
  and then a business partner on that
• 8:06
  who is handling
• 8:07
  all of the inventory,
• 8:09
  the product development side.
• 8:11
  So, so very similar
• 8:12
  to like with straw House
• 8:13
  where I was the marketer
• 8:15
  and my business partner
• 8:16
  is the one who's either
• 8:17
  bringing in the product,
• 8:19
  developing the product,
• 8:20
  or bringing in the business
• 8:21
  doing the business.
• 8:22
  So pretty small.
• 8:23
  Yeah. Pretty small team. Yeah. Cool.
• 8:25
  Keep the inventory.
• 8:27
  Yeah. Totally.
• 8:28
  Keep keep rolling up okay.
• 8:29
  So we're they're getting bored.
• 8:32
  That's rich.
• 8:33
  And then I start working with
• 8:35
  some friends in town.
• 8:36
  One peak creative.
• 8:38
  They did
• 8:39
  like they blew up their
• 8:40
  just a video agency at the time.
• 8:42
  And they blew up on Instagram
• 8:45
  during Covid.
• 8:46
  They did some like ad solution
• 8:50
  is what they called it, where every week
• 8:52
  they would create a video
• 8:54
  that goes or create
• 8:55
  an ad for a random company
• 8:58
  and then ended up going viral.
• 9:00
  So like every week it would go viral too.
• 9:02
  So they did really well,
• 9:03
  but they got like what they did
• 9:05
  one for Ryan Reynolds
• 9:06
  Gin Brandish or Whiskey or whatever.
• 9:08
  It was.
• 9:08
  Vodka, I can't remember.
• 9:10
  And then he ended up.
• 9:11
  Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 9:12
  He ended up commenting
• 9:14
  and reposting it and shit,
• 9:15
  and that kind of
• 9:16
  made them blow up a bit more.
• 9:18
  And then they decided to launch a course,
• 9:21
  and I,
• 9:22
  I was always talking with them,
• 9:23
  providing some guidance around
• 9:24
  like how to create an offer
• 9:26
  that you can sell through meta ads.
• 9:28
  So they created this course on
• 9:30
  how to go viral on TikTok and Instagram.
• 9:32
  And, and I just ran the ads for them.
• 9:36
  Kind of like
• 9:38
  as a percentage of spend type deal
• 9:41
  doing it for my friends.
• 9:43
  And we, we
• 9:44
  we ended up scaling that to 20 to 30 K
• 9:48
  and add spend.
• 9:49
  And it's a course
• 9:50
  which I love the digital products.
• 9:51
  You don't have inventory.
• 9:52
  So I'm like, yes, this is amazing.
• 9:56
  Is that like that or a day
• 9:58
  like what are you talking 2030?
• 9:59
  K sorry, sorry a day.
• 10:00
  That's what we scaled that course up
• 10:01
  to 2030, 20 to 30 day
• 10:03
  and spend very profitable too
• 10:05
  which is amazing.
• 10:06
  And then they introduced
• 10:07
  a high ticket item
• 10:08
  and then so that we've been doing that
• 10:10
  and I was doing the media buying
• 10:11
  for that up until January of this year
• 10:15
  where I started.
• 10:16
  Well, December,
• 10:16
  I started playing around with Claude
• 10:18
  and obviously all of the vibe
• 10:21
  coding tools
• 10:21
  that came out around that time,
• 10:22
  as everyone did.
• 10:23
  And then that's when like grind season
• 10:26
  kind of hit.
• 10:27
  I think for a lot of people
• 10:28
  where you could see
• 10:30
  the capability of these models
• 10:32
  being able to actually create, bring,
• 10:34
  bring your vision of whatever app or idea
• 10:36
  you had to life.
• 10:38
  They're very capable.
• 10:39
  So anyway, I approached
• 10:40
  one peak
• 10:40
  and I was like, hey,
• 10:41
  let me make an app for this.
• 10:44
  We have
• 10:45
  we have all the methodology
• 10:46
  around helping somebody go
• 10:47
  viral on TikTok and Instagram.
• 10:48
  We have these 62 or 64 different formats
• 10:52
  that are part of the kind of like the IP
• 10:55
  that we've generated over time
• 10:57
  that are proven to go viral
• 10:58
  for different niches.
• 10:59
  So let me take a crack
• 11:01
  at turning this into an app,
• 11:03
  and then took me about
• 11:07
  three weeks to develop,
• 11:08
  like the bare bones
• 11:10
  for what format finder is right now.
• 11:14
  Through
• 11:15
  just working
• 11:16
  with Claude and Codex
• 11:17
  and Terminal, that kind of thing.
• 11:19
  And then and then we just decided
• 11:22
  that we, we,
• 11:24
  we would run it as an upsell
• 11:25
  to the course business.
• 11:26
  That was like the first test
• 11:27
  to see how well it would do
• 11:30
  and if there was any reception for it
• 11:33
  from the audience.
• 11:34
  And it did really well
• 11:35
  as a as an upsell.
• 11:36
  And that was like introduce
• 11:38
  this recurring revenue
• 11:39
  because it was a monthly subscription.
• 11:41
  And then
• 11:43
  and then
• 11:44
  we just started
• 11:45
  transferring everything to that.
• 11:47
  So now I'm an equal partner in
• 11:50
  we just turned it into one peak software,
• 11:51
  and it holds all of the IP, all of the
• 11:54
  the entire everything is the app now.
• 11:57
  So all of the courses exist in the app.
• 11:58
  Everything is subscription based.
• 12:01
  And then the app itself.
• 12:02
  So it aims to provide creators
• 12:06
  with everything they need to go viral.
• 12:07
  So you would put it in your niche.
• 12:09
  It identifies what format of the 62
• 12:13
  you should probably try.
• 12:14
  And that could be like a challenge,
• 12:16
  a skit, you know,
• 12:17
  a knowledge gap
• 12:18
  type format,
• 12:19
  and you play this little taste game.
• 12:23
  It identifies the format for you.
• 12:25
  And then from there with that format,
• 12:26
  you can generate ideas, hooks,
• 12:29
  save your ideas and hooks.
• 12:30
  It'll generate the script for you,
• 12:32
  tell you how, the shop
• 12:33
  plan, how to film it.
• 12:34
  Once you're done filming it.
• 12:35
  We have a one click video
• 12:37
  editor in the platform
• 12:38
  where you drop in all the footage and
• 12:43
  it'll use the transcript
• 12:45
  from all of the footage you've
• 12:47
  you've put in there.
• 12:48
  Identify kind of like the best hook,
• 12:50
  the best body
• 12:51
  payoff, all that,
• 12:52
  and it'll cut together
• 12:53
  your video for you.
• 12:54
  And if you have been added in as well,
• 12:56
  it'll add that in.
• 12:58
  And then you can export that video
• 12:59
  and you can put it through our
• 13:00
  analyze feature,
• 13:01
  which does something similar.
• 13:02
  But it
• 13:03
  it does take frames from the clip
• 13:05
  to identify
• 13:06
  the visuals, the lighting, all that.
• 13:09
  And it'll give you kind of
• 13:09
  a bit of a score around
• 13:11
  what you can do better
• 13:12
  or if it's ready to post.
• 13:13
  And at this point, it's
• 13:15
  really good at identifying
• 13:16
  because we've just been able to
• 13:18
  train it on,
• 13:18
  like what videos do
• 13:20
  we now
• 13:20
  have actually from our
• 13:21
  from our subscriber base
• 13:23
  have actually gone viral.
• 13:24
  So it'll be able to identify
• 13:25
  pretty well
• 13:26
  whether something is going to flop
• 13:27
  or do really well.
• 13:29
  But in the in-between of like
• 13:31
  whether you're going to get 100
• 13:33
  K views
• 13:33
  or 50 or 400
• 13:35
  like that is a bit more nuanced
• 13:37
  and it's hard to predict that,
• 13:38
  but it's something we're working on.
• 13:40
  So anyway,
• 13:40
  there's this
• 13:41
  this whole flywheel in there,
• 13:42
  plus all the courses. Yeah.
• 13:44
  That's crazy.
• 13:44
  I have a I wrote down a note
• 13:46
  I want to go back to.
• 13:46
  It's something you said early on in
• 13:48
  that story,
• 13:48
  which was kind of helping
• 13:49
  the one team develop
• 13:51
  an offer around that.
• 13:52
  And I feel like that's a it's
• 13:53
  kind of like a slept on topic in general.
• 13:55
  Like every talking about last year
• 13:57
  or two years ago,
• 13:57
  I was like creative and creative volume.
• 13:59
  I feel like the wave this year
• 14:01
  in like the last seven podcast episodes,
• 14:02
  we don't have been about landing pages,
• 14:04
  but like an offer
• 14:06
  like is
• 14:06
  probably the biggest like
• 14:07
  could be one of the biggest levers
• 14:08
  out of those three.
• 14:10
  And it probably has the least discussion
• 14:11
  because it's
• 14:11
  probably the hardest to crack.
• 14:13
  Is there like a process
• 14:14
  that you went through
• 14:14
  in order to develop that?
• 14:16
  I mean,
• 14:16
  I'm sure you had something similar
• 14:17
  in the affiliate days, but like,
• 14:18
  how did you even get to that?
• 14:19
  That's the thing.
• 14:20
  I feel like my whole
• 14:23
  history has been around
• 14:25
  identifying a good offer,
• 14:26
  and that's from the affiliate days
• 14:28
  where if I can't visualize or understand
• 14:32
  the value
• 14:33
  this provides to your
• 14:36
  who your customer is, then you know,
• 14:39
  spending my own money as an affiliate
• 14:41
  isn't going to make sense.
• 14:42
  So what problem?
• 14:45
  Everything.
• 14:46
  Everything comes down to problem
• 14:47
  solution for me and my history.
• 14:49
  So like what problem I started
• 14:51
  solving is a very clear.
• 14:52
  And then is the offer that you're,
• 14:54
  you're providing
• 14:56
  outsized in the value for the cost.
• 14:58
  And then it just comes down to
• 15:00
  the marketing.
• 15:01
  How well can you how well can you.
• 15:04
  What's the word like a
• 15:07
  display the problem?
• 15:09
  Or,
• 15:11
  you know, create
• 15:11
  the emotional need in the user for
• 15:14
  or meet them where they're at to,
• 15:16
  you know,
• 15:17
  are they aware of the problem
• 15:19
  or are you trying to
• 15:20
  create that awareness in them
• 15:23
  and then provide your product
• 15:24
  as the solution or for
• 15:26
  does it kind of sell itself,
• 15:27
  which some products do
• 15:28
  where, like how to go viral
• 15:30
  on TikTok and Instagram?
• 15:32
  It's pretty obvious to the user
• 15:34
  why they want to do that.
• 15:35
  They can like add in their own personal
• 15:38
  kind of like journey in there
• 15:40
  on their own.
• 15:41
  Whereas if you're selling something that
• 15:44
  where you have to actually introduce
• 15:45
  the problem,
• 15:45
  like getting up
• 15:46
  in the middle of the night
• 15:47
  to P9 times and then introduce
• 15:51
  your your offer
• 15:52
  as the best solution for that. Yeah.
• 15:54
  Is there a
• 15:55
  is there a like
• 15:56
  so when you
• 15:57
  when you're describing the offer to me
• 15:58
  it sounds like it's not actually
• 16:00
  maybe not primarily about the actual
• 16:02
  like unit economics of it,
• 16:04
  which I think that's a
• 16:05
  that's a part of it for sure.
• 16:06
  But you're actually kind of talking
• 16:07
  about the entire package,
• 16:09
  which is like the offer itself,
• 16:10
  which is you
• 16:11
  kind of led with was going
• 16:12
  viral on TikTok like that.
• 16:15
  Is that the is that the offer
• 16:16
  or like how how do you break those down.
• 16:18
  Yeah.
• 16:18
  So for me I would say like
• 16:22
  the offer.
• 16:23
  It's like the keystone of it is the,
• 16:27
  the need, the desire,
• 16:28
  the the value that you're providing.
• 16:30
  And then and then the unit economics
• 16:33
  because you can
• 16:34
  you can change that over what?
• 16:35
  You change all of it over time.
• 16:36
  But that's something that typically
• 16:39
  we need to split
• 16:41
  test, identify like adjust.
• 16:42
  It's like once we so for for one peak
• 16:47
  you know we developed the
• 16:48
  the offer go go viral the landing page.
• 16:51
  And then we did a bunch of split
• 16:52
  testing around price point.
• 16:53
  You know is this like a 2.99.
• 16:55
  Because it also depends on the platform
• 16:57
  you're running on.
• 16:58
  How much is it going to cost
• 16:59
  to acquire a customer
• 17:00
  and how good are your ads.
• 17:01
  And so do
• 17:02
  we want to have this like a $299 one time
• 17:05
  fee for this course,
• 17:06
  or is it going to be
• 17:07
  a monthly subscription? Do we?
• 17:10
  And we started off
• 17:10
  with like monthly subscription.
• 17:12
  I think it was like 97.
• 17:13
  And then we realized, oh,
• 17:14
  if we give them 40% off
• 17:16
  the unit economics based on the CPA,
• 17:18
  we end up making way more money.
• 17:20
  You know,
• 17:21
  our conversion rate will be much higher.
• 17:23
  AOV, it ends up being lower.
• 17:25
  But net net
• 17:27
  we make more profit
• 17:29
  and then we can scale more.
• 17:30
  So
• 17:32
  a lot of that comes down to testing.
• 17:35
  Yeah.
• 17:37
  And the creativity
• 17:38
  I guess in in coming up with those ideas
• 17:41
  when you guys.
• 17:42
  So when you guys were setting prices
• 17:43
  for this, I'm curious like
• 17:45
  did you just play with that a bit
• 17:46
  or like how
• 17:47
  how much of the actual price of
• 17:49
  format finder you guys mess with?
• 17:51
  So Format Finder itself, definitely.
• 17:54
  We started off with that
• 17:55
  like 97 price point,
• 17:58
  and we even started off
• 17:59
  with like
• 17:59
  a first month 58 and then 97 every month
• 18:03
  after that.
• 18:04
  And I think I started spending a couple
• 18:07
  thousand dollars a day to that.
• 18:08
  It was payback period was like month two.
• 18:13
  But then we we decided to test
• 18:16
  no, no, no.
• 18:17
  After we did that,
• 18:18
  we got a bunch of feedback from users
• 18:21
  and we waited a bit,
• 18:22
  so I didn't scale it.
• 18:23
  I kept it at around like that.
• 18:25
  I think that like two to 5KA day
• 18:26
  because we wanted to see,
• 18:27
  you know, where's turn going to come at.
• 18:28
  And then there was a huge cliff for churn
• 18:31
  when they hit that 97 renewal point.
• 18:34
  And then a lot of people were like,
• 18:35
  oh, I didn't realize it was actually 97.
• 18:38
  So and we bolted on
• 18:39
  a bunch of new features
• 18:40
  and decided to try like the three tiers,
• 18:42
  which is more typical to a SaaS model.
• 18:44
  So it's like we came from the course
• 18:45
  where it was 58
• 18:47
  and we're like,
• 18:48
  okay, let's let's go with the tears.
• 18:49
  So 29 is starter package.
• 18:52
  And then I even tried Free
• 18:54
  Trial and that sucked for us
• 18:58
  when it came to
• 18:58
  like the cost to acquire a customer
• 19:00
  on Facebook was still really high
• 19:02
  for the free trial.
• 19:02
  And then it just didn't back out. Sure.
• 19:05
  But having that that 29.99 starter
• 19:08
  price, 59 and then 97
• 19:11
  ended up being in our split test,
• 19:13
  kind of what worked best.
• 19:15
  And the
• 19:17
  the actual thing that move the needle
• 19:18
  the most surprisingly, was
• 19:20
  toggling annual by default.
• 19:24
  Yeah, I was just looking at that.
• 19:25
  I would literally didn't even realize
• 19:26
  that this was annual pricing at first.
• 19:28
  So yeah, yeah,
• 19:28
  yeah, that's super interesting.
• 19:30
  Yeah. Super interesting.
• 19:31
  So that that,
• 19:33
  that had a huge impact on our AOV.
• 19:35
  And now like we don't
• 19:38
  we don't get many complaints
• 19:39
  I guess the customer service.
• 19:41
  So people doing by accident.
• 19:42
  But yeah I think like
• 19:45
  again
• 19:46
  these individuals that
• 19:47
  are trying to go viral on TikTok
• 19:48
  or Instagram or whatever, right,
• 19:50
  like to spend $300 with, with their
• 19:53
  hope to make,
• 19:54
  you know, hopefully,
• 19:55
  you know,
• 19:55
  six figures doing this as a career.
• 19:58
  It's not that crazy
• 19:59
  in the scheme of things.
• 20:00
  If it's the if it's the right tool.
• 20:01
  So that is really smart.
• 20:03
  I wouldn't have thought that that
• 20:05
  like I went to the said like,
• 20:07
  oh it's immediately toggle annual.
• 20:09
  But yeah super cool.
• 20:12
  Yeah.
• 20:12
  And that's where we have found
• 20:14
  that our best customers are
• 20:15
  the ones who have a need
• 20:17
  for the product as opposed to like
• 20:19
  just a want, if that makes sense.
• 20:21
  So like
• 20:21
  an example of this would be Realtors.
• 20:23
  People don't own a business.
• 20:24
  People who want to be a business.
• 20:26
  Does that make sense?
• 20:27
  Like you want to be
• 20:28
  like a health influencer
• 20:30
  and that'll be like your business
• 20:31
  where you have your personal
• 20:32
  training clients come in or whatever,
• 20:34
  versus like the,
• 20:36
  you know, the woo woo spiritual.
• 20:38
  I want to talk about meditation.
• 20:40
  Worst customers who like
• 20:43
  most customer service requests from them,
• 20:46
  most complaints.
• 20:47
  And I'm sure this applies everywhere,
• 20:48
  but it's just like it's
• 20:49
  something that we realized
• 20:51
  about a month ago that, like,
• 20:52
  we need to really go after
• 20:54
  the ones who have a need for this.
• 20:56
  Because for them, spending
• 20:58
  this much per month is nothing like it
• 21:01
  for for the value that they're getting.
• 21:02
  And then also they will move
• 21:03
  into the high ticket item,
• 21:04
  which is like
• 21:05
  a $4,000 community with coaches.
• 21:09
  It's more hands on.
• 21:11
  So we have that in the back end.
• 21:12
  And then that's like
• 21:12
  the only upsell that we have right now,
• 21:14
  which is sign up for that masterclass.
• 21:16
  Nice. Okay.
• 21:17
  So I was going to say
• 21:19
  you stopped running ads in California
• 21:20
  is what you're trying to say.
• 21:22
  Yeah.
• 21:22
  No, no I'm just I'm just go it.
• 21:25
  Go for it.
• 21:26
  I was
• 21:27
  I was going to get to the realtor thing
• 21:28
  because like I was
• 21:29
  looking at the attic count
• 21:30
  and it looks like that realtor
• 21:31
  funnel is relatively new,
• 21:33
  but it makes sense, right?
• 21:34
  Because like,
• 21:34
  they sell one more house
• 21:35
  and they paid for the software for six,
• 21:38
  seven years, maybe, maybe more than that.
• 21:40
  It's like it's like a no brainer.
• 21:41
  Okay,
• 21:42
  so maybe a couple questions around that.
• 21:44
  It sounds like you.
• 21:45
  It was pretty obvious to identify
• 21:46
  because like,
• 21:47
  they just didn't complain as much
• 21:48
  and their turn wasn't as high.
• 21:50
  Are you doing anything?
• 21:51
  I want to come back
• 21:53
  to that upsell thing too.
• 21:54
  But are you doing anything inside of meta
• 21:56
  that's like
• 21:56
  unique structure wise for the realtors,
• 21:58
  like creative for them.
• 21:59
  Landers for them is. Yes.
• 22:01
  Are you like anything crazy
• 22:02
  with the pixel
• 22:03
  like optimizing for those people
• 22:04
  qualified leads not qualified
• 22:07
  All right, friends, quick break.
• 22:08
  This episode is brought to you
• 22:09
  by North Beam,
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• 22:13
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  How are you supposed to know
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  what to test in the first place?
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• 23:14
  Incrementally. Was broken.
• 23:16
  North beam fixed Yeah.
• 23:17
  So that's like a
• 23:18
  that's a small split test.
• 23:20
  So like right now
• 23:20
  we are spending like 2020 5KA day
• 23:24
  us on on ads in that in that ad account
• 23:28
  and the that realtor funnel.
• 23:30
  It was at like 500 a day.
• 23:33
  It was just a small test.
• 23:34
  And it's about breakeven.
• 23:36
  It's not doing better
• 23:37
  than the rest of the funnel
• 23:39
  or like the general population stuff.
• 23:42
  And it's
• 23:44
  like it seems like it's because
• 23:47
  when obviously
• 23:48
  we target realtors in the copy,
• 23:51
  look,
• 23:52
  I don't do any interest targeting
• 23:53
  or anything like that.
• 23:54
  I'm like,
• 23:55
  I'm a believer that your ad
• 23:57
  does the targeting.
• 23:58
  So talking about realtors in the ad media
• 24:02
  puts it in front of realtors.
• 24:04
  But what we've noticed
• 24:05
  is like
• 24:05
  obviously the cost
• 24:07
  per click for those users is a lot higher
• 24:10
  because of the type of person they are.
• 24:13
  And the conversion rate
• 24:15
  with that quiz funnel isn't high enough
• 24:18
  to support the increased cost
• 24:21
  to get them there.
• 24:23
  So
• 24:26
  it ends up being at this point where that
• 24:28
  the general funnel that we're leading
• 24:31
  people to is doing better.
• 24:33
  I do still want to
• 24:33
  explore the quiz funnel
• 24:35
  as like a method.
• 24:37
  I think I can get that working,
• 24:39
  but it's just
• 24:39
  it's just a small test right now,
• 24:41
  like off the side
• 24:43
  and then in the account.
• 24:44
  Sorry. Go ahead. No. Go ahead, go ahead.
• 24:46
  No, I was just gonna say
• 24:47
  in the ad account itself,
• 24:49
  I just, I just run CBOs
• 24:52
  that are split up by by the location.
• 24:56
  So like, a US only CBO
• 24:59
  and then the other two are just, like,
• 25:00
  tier one, English speaking, and then a
• 25:04
  tier two,
• 25:05
  whatever, but
• 25:06
  everything gets it's
• 25:07
  I don't like
• 25:08
  I used to do the, the abo
• 25:10
  where you would test in your Abo first
• 25:13
  and then throw it into the CBO
• 25:15
  and performance that are winning.
• 25:17
  But at this point,
• 25:18
  I just throw everything into
• 25:19
  the one CBO campaign
• 25:21
  and just let it compete in there
• 25:22
  against everything else.
• 25:23
  We do have a pretty cool flywheel
• 25:25
  right now
• 25:26
  for generating ad content,
• 25:28
  and so we are getting a ton more, more
• 25:31
  ad content from our user base
• 25:33
  and then using it in there.
• 25:35
  Yeah, that's nice
• 25:36
  because it's like it's
• 25:37
  baked into its baked into the product.
• 25:38
  It's like they're making I'm
• 25:40
  making
• 25:41
  they're making content
• 25:41
  as a result of that,
• 25:42
  of using the product.
• 25:43
  Or you're like actually
• 25:44
  just reaching out to them
• 25:45
  on top of that and saying like, hey,
• 25:46
  what were your results?
• 25:47
  What does the flywheel look like?
• 25:48
  Yeah, I'm so stoked on this
• 25:50
  because it's working so well.
• 25:51
  So when somebody in the platform
• 25:54
  gets like a million views or more,
• 25:57
  we'll reach out to them
• 25:58
  and we'll be like, hey,
• 25:58
  do you want to be part of
• 25:59
  like, the UGC creator?
• 26:04
  Product, like Pro or whatever?
• 26:06
  Yeah, program we have and
• 26:09
  we give them the formats
• 26:11
  that are working for us in ads.
• 26:12
  So the script, everything that's working,
• 26:15
  and they'll send us back the footage
• 26:17
  and we give them 5% of ad spend.
• 26:19
  So they're incentivized that way.
• 26:21
  And so the first one
• 26:22
  we tested the beginning of last week
• 26:23
  and she heard it was Becca.
• 26:26
  She had a view, a video
• 26:28
  that got 20 million views
• 26:29
  using our platform. So we reached out.
• 26:32
  She made the content,
• 26:33
  we cut it up using our app and
• 26:37
  and then we
• 26:38
  and it's now getting like 16 k a day
• 26:41
  worth of spend all of our ads.
• 26:44
  And so this is like great for her
• 26:46
  and for me.
• 26:46
  I'm like sure 5% of ad spend
• 26:48
  like I'm
• 26:48
  the one managing the ads right now.
• 26:49
  It doesn't matter.
• 26:50
  That's like for ads that are crushing.
• 26:52
  And the CPA is like
• 26:54
  30% lower than what
• 26:55
  we were seeing on everything else.
• 26:57
  So yeah, it's
• 26:58
  you're painter like 25 grand a month
• 26:59
  if that,
• 27:00
  if that holds at like 15 K,
• 27:02
  which is like no joke for,
• 27:03
  for a content creator
• 27:04
  for making one banger ad for you.
• 27:07
  So yeah, that's super cool.
• 27:09
  That's super cool.
• 27:09
  But now it's like,
• 27:10
  since then
• 27:10
  we've had like two other creators
• 27:12
  submit their own content,
• 27:13
  and so now they're all like
• 27:14
  in the platform fighting for the spend.
• 27:18
  That's like the best though.
• 27:19
  Like, are you going to like,
• 27:20
  they know about each other and like,
• 27:21
  what's going on?
• 27:22
  Like you're going
• 27:22
  to throw them in a group chat
• 27:23
  and make them make them competitive or
• 27:26
  keep it separate for now.
• 27:27
  And I'm wondering
• 27:28
  if we want to keep it
• 27:29
  like limited to ten spots or something.
• 27:32
  It has something we might do.
• 27:33
  I don't know, it
• 27:34
  depends on on how much it scales.
• 27:36
  Yeah, well, it's like everybody's
• 27:38
  I know, like
• 27:38
  tribe is getting a lot of momentum
• 27:40
  right now
• 27:40
  because like tribe enables
• 27:41
  the TikTok shop of occasion
• 27:42
  of of meta content. Like.
• 27:44
  And it sounds like you kind of
• 27:45
  have the same thing, but yeah,
• 27:46
  it's like you, you don't want to.
• 27:48
  It's a balance
• 27:48
  between getting a bunch of new creators,
• 27:50
  and then all of a sudden
• 27:51
  you're out of count, like, yeah,
• 27:52
  you net increase spend.
• 27:53
  But maybe they feel like I'm earning
• 27:55
  less as a percentage
• 27:55
  because mine don't spend as much.
• 27:57
  But it's like,
• 27:57
  I don't know,
• 27:58
  just keep making bangers and then,
• 28:00
  you know, you keep earning.
• 28:02
  Yeah, exactly.
• 28:03
  Yeah. That's sick.
• 28:05
  So they sounds like there's like a couple
• 28:07
  there's a couple of like things
• 28:08
  that made like
• 28:09
  Sep function changes and like,
• 28:11
  I've tweeted at least three times
• 28:13
  about like RR roughly is there.
• 28:16
  So it sounds like
• 28:17
  a couple of those
• 28:18
  were offer to a degree
• 28:20
  and like the annual switch
• 28:22
  and then the
• 28:24
  the creator flywheel is like recently
• 28:25
  it sounds like it's cranking.
• 28:27
  Is there anything else that you did
• 28:28
  like any landing page wins.
• 28:30
  Any any other adjustments
• 28:31
  you've made
• 28:31
  that made a step function change?
• 28:34
  Well, one of the big ones is like
• 28:37
  there's more on the product side.
• 28:38
  I would say
• 28:40
  it's when we launched the video editor.
• 28:43
  So a lot of it was product feedback.
• 28:45
  For the first few months,
• 28:46
  I was doing all of the customer service,
• 28:47
  and so I was able to see
• 28:49
  what people wanted in the app and
• 28:52
  what they wanted out of a tool like this.
• 28:54
  And so being able to reduce churn
• 28:58
  by providing that outsized value
• 29:00
  with the product itself
• 29:02
  has been a huge lever
• 29:03
  for us being able to scale ads.
• 29:05
  That's that's why one of the biggest ones
• 29:07
  I'm I'm super curious on this.
• 29:09
  Like,
• 29:10
  I don't understand pricing of like SaaS
• 29:13
  and then pricing of like AI usage.
• 29:15
  Like I'm kind of an idiot
• 29:16
  when it comes to like all this stuff,
• 29:17
  so bear with me.
• 29:18
  But like,
• 29:19
  I don't understand how you could do
• 29:21
  like, one
• 29:22
  click editor
• 29:23
  for a customer and like,
• 29:25
  still have margin
• 29:26
  plus a catch on like $15 a month.
• 29:29
  Like there's got to be
• 29:31
  something really interesting
• 29:32
  that you guys are doing on
• 29:33
  like the back end
• 29:33
  to think about like usage
• 29:35
  and all this other stuff too,
• 29:36
  that then like contributes
• 29:38
  to the profitability of the business.
• 29:40
  Like,
• 29:40
  can you talk about that
• 29:41
  a little bit like,
• 29:41
  I don't know how much you want
• 29:42
  to share on that or not know for sure.
• 29:44
  Yeah it's fine. Yeah.
• 29:44
  Like I'm super curious because like,
• 29:47
  that's the math
• 29:47
  that I was doing in my head
• 29:48
  as we were kind of running through this
• 29:50
  and I'm like,
• 29:50
  I just don't understand how this works.
• 29:52
  So yeah,
• 29:53
  just give us like the quick TLDR of that.
• 29:56
  Yeah.
• 29:56
  So in terms of the actual cost
• 29:58
  to run the app.
• 30:00
  So like let's say let's take like
• 30:03
  the average user maybe spends
• 30:06
  spends like 5 to $10 a month in actual
• 30:10
  API fees.
• 30:12
  But the,
• 30:15
  the key to the model is similar to
• 30:17
  I think what like anthropic is doing
• 30:19
  where they're subsidizing the tokens,
• 30:22
  where some users or power users,
• 30:24
  they're hitting their limits every day,
• 30:26
  their five hour limit,
• 30:27
  their weekly limit, whatever it is.
• 30:29
  And they might be not worth the $280
• 30:33
  a month cost it is or whatever. Sure.
• 30:35
  But because of the number of users
• 30:37
  who aren't those power users,
• 30:39
  it just it averages out.
• 30:41
  Yeah.
• 30:41
  So for us, you know, our actual margin is
• 30:45
  is pretty good in that like 90%.
• 30:49
  Yeah. Got it. Cool. Yeah.
• 30:51
  API fees
• 30:52
  and like the one called editor itself
• 30:53
  that's like the cheapest
• 30:55
  because it just uses like,
• 30:57
  you know,
• 30:58
  just has to look at a few frames.
• 30:59
  So a vision model there and then it also
• 31:03
  just transcribes, which is pretty cheap
• 31:06
  because it was just like the transcript.
• 31:09
  Did that make
• 31:09
  a big difference on retention?
• 31:10
  Because it's like people
• 31:11
  were able to film the content,
• 31:12
  but it's like, okay,
• 31:13
  I'm going to take seven hours
• 31:14
  to edit this fucking thing. Now.
• 31:15
  I can't even get a live to see.
• 31:17
  What it does like.
• 31:17
  Is that, is that like,
• 31:18
  is it as simple as that?
• 31:20
  Yeah, it is, but it's also like
• 31:23
  I'm
• 31:26
  we have to curb expectations
• 31:27
  with people now a bit
• 31:28
  because they'll dump their whole camera
• 31:31
  roll in there
• 31:33
  and, and be like, make me a banger.
• 31:37
  And then they'll complain when it's like,
• 31:39
  there's no, there's no like,
• 31:41
  this is all B-roll.
• 31:42
  You have no, like, coherent story
• 31:46
  or video or hook
• 31:47
  or anything that you've done with this
• 31:49
  at this like, yet.
• 31:50
  And so it just comes down to us
• 31:52
  educating the person.
• 31:53
  So we're taking steps in that regard.
• 31:56
  Overall, the turn though
• 31:57
  is, is at a place where, you know,
• 32:01
  our payback
• 32:02
  period is like within two months and then
• 32:07
  everything after that is, is profit.
• 32:09
  And so like
• 32:09
  right now we are profitable overall.
• 32:12
  And then that's just
• 32:14
  where like it's a business decision
• 32:15
  at this point where we're like,
• 32:16
  what are we even building here?
• 32:18
  Are we building something like
• 32:19
  do we get investors like what do we do?
• 32:21
  I don't know
• 32:23
  if you guys have an answer to that.
• 32:24
  I, I'm all ears. Like,
• 32:28
  yeah, we run at a
• 32:29
  loss to just try to like,
• 32:30
  get the revenue numbers, revenue
• 32:33
  multiple to sell this thing. Yeah.
• 32:35
  I mean it feels like
• 32:37
  I mean, if you even looked up the amount
• 32:39
  like how big your Tam
• 32:40
  of your customer list
• 32:41
  is, like, it's anyone that has north of.
• 32:45
  I mean, like,
• 32:45
  even if you just looked up
• 32:46
  anyone north of 10,000 followers
• 32:47
  on on the platforms,
• 32:49
  it's like any one of those people
• 32:50
  to a certain degree
• 32:51
  could be a customer of yours.
• 32:53
  So it's got to be like huge.
• 32:55
  Like, have you done
• 32:56
  any research on Tam of like,
• 32:57
  how many customers
• 32:58
  you think that this is even possible?
• 33:00
  Like,
• 33:00
  I think there's thoughts like that
• 33:01
  that I have
• 33:02
  that I'm like,
• 33:04
  it's so interesting
• 33:04
  because it's like, okay,
• 33:05
  this could be useful
• 33:06
  for like you said, realtors,
• 33:07
  this could be useful for people
• 33:08
  that make UGC content.
• 33:10
  This could be useful
• 33:10
  for like
• 33:11
  the gamut of creators is massive.
• 33:14
  So I don't know.
• 33:16
  I think that's that's
• 33:17
  the thing
• 33:17
  that is really exciting about it to me.
• 33:20
  Yeah. No. Me too.
• 33:21
  Because I do think
• 33:22
  the Tam is absolutely enormous worldwide.
• 33:26
  This is like
• 33:27
  everybody wants to be a creator,
• 33:30
  whether it's for like
• 33:32
  the notoriety,
• 33:33
  the ego boost
• 33:33
  or to actually make money that way.
• 33:36
  And so if we can
• 33:38
  make that process easier in any way,
• 33:42
  that's like,
• 33:43
  that's why
• 33:44
  I can't sleep at night right now.
• 33:45
  Like I slept like in like five months
• 33:49
  since January. Yeah.
• 33:51
  I feel like the most interesting thing
• 33:54
  is, like,
• 33:54
  how good you can get that video
• 33:55
  editor to be because it's like scripts
• 33:57
  I think are pretty,
• 33:59
  like scripts are getting better
• 34:00
  and I think
• 34:00
  is doing a good job with that.
• 34:02
  I think knowing the formats of
• 34:03
  what can go viral,
• 34:04
  you guys
• 34:04
  obviously like one peak is done
• 34:06
  a very good job of of identifying those.
• 34:08
  But like getting that editor to
• 34:10
  to actually produce bangers
• 34:11
  with like as little context as possible.
• 34:14
  Like that is where I think the source is.
• 34:16
  Because why would you
• 34:17
  not use a tool like this then?
• 34:19
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:21
  And even getting
• 34:22
  at like
• 34:22
  90% of the way there
• 34:23
  and only having the tools in there
• 34:25
  that somebody would need
• 34:27
  for creating content to go viral,
• 34:30
  it's like not creating,
• 34:31
  you know, landscape footage
• 34:32
  for some other use case,
• 34:34
  like a commercial or something.
• 34:35
  But like
• 34:36
  everything in their built around
• 34:38
  creators is something that I feel like,
• 34:41
  let's say Cap Cut or Canva.
• 34:44
  You know,
• 34:45
  they're they're they're speaking
• 34:46
  to such
• 34:47
  wide use cases that to adjust their app
• 34:50
  for this specific use case.
• 34:53
  I think we have like some time here
• 34:56
  to develop this and really get it good.
• 34:59
  Yeah.
• 35:00
  And so that's my focus.
• 35:02
  I'm like the
• 35:02
  I went
• 35:03
  I'm speedrunning the path
• 35:05
  to becoming a developer here.
• 35:07
  Yeah I'm like the sole developer on this
• 35:09
  app right now.
• 35:11
  Yeah it's crazy proud of me.
• 35:13
  You've got more questions in here.
• 35:14
  Yeah.
• 35:15
  So is there I
• 35:16
  this was one of the questions
• 35:17
  I asked you on Twitter.
• 35:19
  Like I was just curious,
• 35:19
  like generally speaking.
• 35:20
  So we talked about like,
• 35:21
  real estate agents is obvious
• 35:22
  because it's like, yes, I'll sell
• 35:24
  literally anything.
• 35:24
  And you've paid for this for a long time.
• 35:26
  It's like anybody
• 35:26
  making business content,
• 35:28
  some people are just trying to generate
• 35:29
  ad revenue.
• 35:30
  But like UGC creators,
• 35:32
  people are making content
• 35:33
  for people like us
• 35:34
  that are trying to run up e-com ad spend.
• 35:36
  It's like,
• 35:37
  is that, you know,
• 35:38
  is that cohort like,
• 35:38
  are you thinking about
• 35:39
  expanding the product out
• 35:40
  towards those type of people?
• 35:41
  Or like, it's
• 35:42
  not even worth at this point
• 35:43
  because what you have is already
• 35:44
  a big enough Tam
• 35:45
  and you want to master that.
• 35:47
  It is. It's just not
• 35:50
  it's not a big focus.
• 35:52
  Like it'll happen for sure.
• 35:54
  Like,
• 35:55
  personally,
• 35:55
  I've thrown put ads into the platform,
• 35:58
  the auto cut feature, and it works like
• 36:03
  you can definitely use it for.
• 36:04
  UGC there's no reason you can't,
• 36:05
  and a lot of the people
• 36:06
  who are using the app,
• 36:07
  are you actually using it
• 36:08
  for that purpose to like
• 36:11
  they're like agency style businesses
• 36:13
  who are using it for their own clients.
• 36:15
  And it is like it's the next thing on
• 36:17
  my list
• 36:18
  is creating that,
• 36:19
  like higher tier in the app
• 36:21
  where somebody can have,
• 36:22
  you know,
• 36:23
  the different clients that they have,
• 36:24
  like more of the agency focus.
• 36:26
  And then from there
• 36:29
  we'll just do the same flywheel where
• 36:30
  when we get somebody get
• 36:32
  get a good case
• 36:33
  study,
• 36:33
  we'll just get them
• 36:34
  to make the ad for us.
• 36:36
  Yeah, right.
• 36:37
  What is I'm bouncing around here
• 36:38
  because I just remembered
• 36:39
  that I had this question.
• 36:40
  You have that the,
• 36:41
  like the high ticket offer
• 36:42
  on the back end.
• 36:43
  So it's twofold.
• 36:44
  One like is there
• 36:45
  is there an additional high ticket offer
• 36:47
  because like it sounds like it was
• 36:48
  a it's a it's a group
• 36:50
  and like coaching type of thing,
• 36:51
  but maybe not like a done for you
• 36:53
  which is maybe what one peak
• 36:54
  had previously done.
• 36:56
  Is there
• 36:56
  like another expansion to that
• 36:57
  and then like
• 36:58
  is that really meaningful for LTV?
• 37:00
  Like, does it take great high enough that
• 37:01
  that's like unlocking
• 37:02
  quite a bit
• 37:03
  or you're just
• 37:03
  that's like
• 37:04
  it's gravy on top of everything else?
• 37:07
  Yeah, I kind of treat it as gravy.
• 37:08
  I don't calculate anything based on it
• 37:11
  based on it at this point. But it does.
• 37:14
  It does convert pretty well
• 37:15
  and it adds like 10
• 37:17
  to 15% to the LTV overall.
• 37:22
  Across all across all customers.
• 37:26
  But yeah it is.
• 37:29
  Yeah.
• 37:29
  It's the it's the it's 4K
• 37:31
  I think for for a four month program
• 37:33
  they get access to the community.
• 37:35
  They get access to coaches who like
• 37:37
  look at their videos,
• 37:37
  tell them what they can do
• 37:39
  differently, group coaching calls.
• 37:41
  And then we are thinking about like
• 37:43
  higher ticket.
• 37:44
  the.
• 37:47
  Yeah.
• 37:48
  Cool, man. Sweet.
• 37:49
  This is awesome.
• 37:50
  I know you could probably continue
• 37:51
  to go for a long time.
• 37:52
  Like we didn't even
• 37:53
  we didn't really even get into like,
• 37:55
  the AI piece of it at all.
• 37:56
  I think it was crazy.
• 37:57
  You know, you have AI like your AI.
• 37:59
  AI building.
• 38:00
  I'm not giving you enough credit
• 38:02
  when I say this,
• 38:02
  so don't take this the wrong way.
• 38:03
  But like AI is building the product.
• 38:05
  Sounds like
• 38:05
  I might be running the ad account.
• 38:07
  Obviously Metis got their own AI.
• 38:09
  Are you still are you still doing that?
• 38:10
  Like is still running it
• 38:12
  or something else?
• 38:13
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:13
  So like my and everything is run through
• 38:18
  AI for me it's through telegram.
• 38:19
  It's like my whole command
• 38:20
  center business.
• 38:21
  Everything is through telegram.
• 38:24
  I've got like,
• 38:25
  it's either Claude or Codex or Cami
• 38:27
  and I've got
• 38:27
  like 40 sessions at any
• 38:29
  given time running on my home computer.
• 38:31
  I feel like, okay, so, like,
• 38:32
  I feel like
• 38:33
  this is like one of the biggest unlocks
• 38:34
  for anyone using AI.
• 38:35
  It's like vanilla Claude
• 38:39
  or vanilla ChatGPT is
• 38:44
  okay,
• 38:45
  but it's the harness
• 38:46
  that you build around it
• 38:47
  that really matters.
• 38:49
  It's like for copywriting,
• 38:51
  it kind of sucks,
• 38:52
  but the harness being like the skills,
• 38:55
  the process that you put in place
• 38:57
  can actually take it
• 38:58
  to producing something
• 38:59
  you can actually run
• 39:00
  in in your ad account.
• 39:02
  So for me, my harness is built on on
• 39:06
  everything is telegram.
• 39:08
  I've got agents running,
• 39:10
  you know,
• 39:10
  on their own, identifying
• 39:11
  bugs, triaging them,
• 39:14
  bringing them to me with like a solution
• 39:16
  for for how to solve it, my ad account.
• 39:21
  Like when I get new creative,
• 39:22
  I literally just like,
• 39:24
  send a link to my bot with the,
• 39:27
  like the slack link.
• 39:28
  That's how lazy I am at this point.
• 39:30
  I don't even like export it.
• 39:31
  And I'm like here, use the
• 39:33
  format finder, add
• 39:34
  uploader skill
• 39:34
  and get these into the ad account
• 39:36
  and it knows it has a whole process.
• 39:38
  It knows to like
• 39:39
  look at,
• 39:39
  do an analysis
• 39:40
  on the ad account, determine
• 39:41
  what the best copy
• 39:42
  is, transcribe the video.
• 39:43
  It just got to identify
• 39:44
  like who it's talking to right?
• 39:46
  The ad copy like it does everything.
• 39:48
  It uploads the ads
• 39:48
  and it just tells me when it's done.
• 39:50
  And then I can I can go in and confirm.
• 39:51
  But at this point
• 39:52
  it hasn't made a mistake in months.
• 39:55
  So it just
• 39:56
  it just runs on its own
• 39:57
  and then it just,
• 39:58
  it knows to
• 39:59
  give me an analysis of every morning
• 40:01
  or every whenever I want
• 40:04
  all of our customer services
• 40:05
  run through like a slack
• 40:07
  bot that I've got set
• 40:08
  up, which is
• 40:09
  like the company brain as well.
• 40:11
  And it's a clawed bot in slack
• 40:13
  where it triaged
• 40:15
  all customer service
• 40:16
  as it comes in, identifies like,
• 40:18
  oh, is this a refund?
• 40:19
  This is what I want to do.
• 40:20
  This is the draft reply.
• 40:21
  I've checked the previous tickets
• 40:23
  that are very similar.
• 40:24
  All you have to do is to prove
• 40:25
  and so the customer service agent
• 40:27
  can clear.
• 40:27
  Like I'd take it a minute at this point
• 40:32
  and she just hits approve and it goes in.
• 40:34
  Then it goes in
• 40:34
  and it does the refund updates the user
• 40:38
  account and sends the email.
• 40:41
  And then I have another bot that comes in
• 40:43
  and just verifies that it did
• 40:44
  what it said it was going to do,
• 40:45
  just like as like a QA.
• 40:46
  And at the end of the day,
• 40:47
  there's another one that comes in
• 40:49
  and checks that whole day,
• 40:50
  make sure nothing is missed because like,
• 40:51
  you even have these redundancy layers
• 40:53
  built in
• 40:54
  because, you know,
• 40:55
  they give you peace of mind,
• 40:56
  but then it's just also like, why not?
• 40:57
  Why wouldn't you kind of every week
• 40:59
  a dollar. Yeah, exactly.
• 41:01
  It costs like a dollar.
• 41:01
  And so yeah, I don't know.
• 41:05
  It's sick.
• 41:05
  I'm so stoked on AI right now.
• 41:07
  I gotta love every bit of it.
• 41:09
  It's so much.
• 41:09
  Yeah.
• 41:10
  Andrew, Andrew's not here,
• 41:11
  but Andrew has a
• 41:12
  has another podcast,
• 41:13
  and it sounds like
• 41:13
  I'm gonna have to come.
• 41:15
  Come on and join it.
• 41:16
  But it's called
• 41:16
  I think it's called AI, dtc tf
• 41:18
  or something crazy.
• 41:19
  A lot of acronyms
• 41:20
  and I know it's DTC specific,
• 41:21
  but we'll have to
• 41:23
  just like
• 41:23
  do a side episode
• 41:24
  or we just nerd out on like the
• 41:25
  AI side of it
• 41:26
  because we're not
• 41:27
  going to have time today.
• 41:28
  But is there anything else that, like,
• 41:30
  we didn't go through that
• 41:31
  you think is like super interesting
• 41:32
  to share that you want to share?
• 41:36
  Yeah.
• 41:37
  Not on the unless it's on the AI side.
• 41:39
  That's like where where all my,
• 41:43
  my like time is going
• 41:45
  towards is just creating
• 41:46
  the process here.
• 41:47
  Like I feel like what we're doing
• 41:48
  would require
• 41:49
  10 to 15 like developers on this thing,
• 41:53
  but we're being forced to create process
• 41:57
  that hasn't that no one's ever
• 41:59
  not no one's ever done.
• 42:00
  But like that is cutting edge,
• 42:02
  let's say with AI.
• 42:04
  So that's like one of the funnest,
• 42:06
  funnest things for me right now. Yeah.
• 42:08
  I'm gonna text I'm going to text Andrew
• 42:09
  and tell him he needs to set up the,
• 42:11
  the follow up to talk through.
• 42:13
  Yeah. Oh, man.
• 42:15
  Well appreciate you appreciate
• 42:16
  making time to to join us.
• 42:17
  It's it's been really fun.
• 42:18
  And I know this was our first time
• 42:19
  getting a chance to chat.
• 42:20
  And sounds like you and Zach
• 42:21
  got to reconnect
• 42:22
  for the first time in a while,
• 42:23
  so that's awesome. Yeah.
• 42:25
  Thanks for having me.
• 42:26
  Before we hit record, you mentioned
• 42:27
  you might start tweeting
• 42:28
  a little bit more
• 42:29
  and I got hold you to it, but
• 42:30
  is that where you want
• 42:31
  people to find you?
• 42:32
  Do you want people to reach out?
• 42:33
  Do you want to leave you alone?
• 42:35
  No. Yeah, definitely reach out.
• 42:36
  I mean, like I said before, I need help.
• 42:37
  Like, I'm like to a large degree in over
• 42:41
  my head here, like, as a developer
• 42:45
  or as somebody who's, like,
• 42:46
  building a company
• 42:47
  that might be worth something.
• 42:48
  If anyone has any advice, you know,
• 42:51
  let me know.
• 42:51
  My my Twitter handle is nav ud.
• 42:55
  So cool.
• 42:57
  I'll make sure it's
• 42:58
  linked up in the show notes.
• 42:58
  But yeah man appreciate you joining us.
• 43:00
  It was super fun and I'm sure we'll we'll
• 43:03
  we'll have a follow up on all things
• 43:05
  AI coming soon.
• 43:06
  Sounds good. Thanks for having me.
• 43:08
  Thanks, man.
• 43:11
  The only way
• 43:12
  that we grow
• 43:13
  this podcast is by
• 43:15
  you sharing it with your friends.
• 43:16
  Honestly, like reviews
• 43:17
  kind of don't really mean
• 43:18
  anything too much anymore.
• 43:19
  They're really meaningful,
• 43:20
  but they don't do a lot
• 43:21
  for the growth of the podcast.
• 43:23
  And so sharing YouTube links,
• 43:25
  sharing Spotify
• 43:26
  links, sharing
• 43:27
  Apple, whatever
• 43:28
  we call it under the podcast app now,
• 43:30
  anything you can share,
• 43:32
  the better we're going to be.
• 43:34
  Guys, anything else
• 43:35
  you want to say on this?
• 43:36
  Yeah, please go check us out on YouTube.
• 43:38
  Rack up those views for us.
• 43:39
  We'd love to see it and then subscribe.
• 43:41
  Make sure to subscribe on YouTube
• 43:42
  as well.
• 43:42
  And I relentlessly
• 43:43
  refresh the YouTube comments
• 43:44
  because it dictates
• 43:45
  my mental health for the day.
• 43:46
  So please say something
• 43:47
  nice about all of us.
• 43:49
  Thank you everyone.
• 43:50
  Thanks for listening. Honestly.