Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 38

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 38 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: missing Day thirty eight.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: This as we learn an alleged sighting.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Has been reported and we find out the latest on
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Annie Guthrie's car online. Annie Guthrie, Savannah's sister in. Nancy
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's daughter, has been subjected to a lot of torment
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and accusations about where is her car. Well, tonight, maybe
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: we have an answer. This as Nanos Sheriff Nanos is
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: hit with a one million dollar lawsuit Between that and
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: his reality show? Is he a little too distracted to
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: find Nancy Guthrie and can her hearing aids be tracked?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. She would
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: not wrap her arm around a guy that she suspected
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: in her mother's kidnap.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: This brother in law would not even be living with
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: the family. He would be somewhere else That family loves him.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I think it is tragic that the family has had
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: yet another assault.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Tonight we are learning about an.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Alleged sighting of Nancy Guthrie south of the border.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Is it real?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: It cannot be discounted joining me in All Star panel,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: but first straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: reporter Dave Matt.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: What do you know, Nancy.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Remember when we got the ransom notes that were sent
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: to TMZ. There was the fourth ransom note they gave
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: us certain from TMZ and law enforcement. Certain information was
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: given to the public, but not all of it. Now
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: we're finding that in the fourth missive sent to TMZ
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: there was an actual claim by the person sending the
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: email that they saw Nancy Guthrie south of the border
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: in Mexico with her alleged kidnappers.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: This was not a proof of life.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: It was merely something added to the email, and it
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: was sent in an effort to get money. Now, TMZ
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: offered to be the go between, the mediator between this
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: person and law enforcement, and nothing else came from it.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: But this person claims that he or she saw Nancy
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: Guthrie in Mexico.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So many questions about the alleged siding. And of course,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: in every case when someone goes missing, there are sightings.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they're true. I recall distinctly a case I had
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: been working and reporting on. It was the case of
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Dylan and Shasta Gronie. They were kidnapped from their home
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: there in coord Lane. Their entire family wiped out and
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: killed because some perr was driving along and from the highway.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Dave Mac remember this. From the highway, he sees them on.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: An above at an above ground pool that they had
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: and I guess their backyard pulls over.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Who would have thunk it?
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Wait lies in, Wait wipes out the whole family and
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: takes Shasta and little brother Dylan, who he kills after
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: torturing in front of the little girl. And then a
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: sighting occurs, like a quick trip or a.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Convenience store, and it's her.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: She had seen Shasta and Dylan on our show and
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: called it in and saved Shasta's life. So that's just
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: a true life experience. And there have been many, many
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: others this siding. Let's go out to the panel, straight
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: out to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us. Brian is a director
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Operations USPA Nationwide Security. Why am I going to him
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: because he leads a team of investigators that are dedicated
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: to finding missing people, including extractions in Mexico around the world.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: He is a former marine and an Iraqi war vet. Okay,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: we cannot discount this. Obviously nanos can't find her in
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: the Catalina Foothills area. Could this be true? What do
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: you do when you get a tip like this? For
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, a tip has come
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: in spotting Nancy Guthrie south of the Border. Okay, tell me, Brian,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: what do you do?
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: The first thing that's going to happen here in Nancy
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: is they're going to try to trace to find the
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: source of this tip, whether it came in via email
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: or a cell phone or submitted on a website form,
• 4:51
  Speaker 6: They're going to do everything that they can to find
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: the source and the person that submitted this tip.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Now, I will point out one thing.
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: This tip demanded one bitcoin, which to me raises an
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: immediate red flag. It was similar to previously reported information
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: asking for one bitcoin. There's a one point two plus
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: million dollar reward out there. Genuine tips at this stage
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: of an investigation are generally asking for that full reward.
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: They're not shortening it down to.
• 5:27
  Speaker 6: Fifty sixty thousand dollars versus one point two million. So
• 5:32
  Speaker 6: law enforcement still will track down the source of this.
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: They'll treat it very seriously, of course, but you know,
• 5:39
  Speaker 6: I have to say there's a major red flag here
• 5:42
  Speaker 6: in light of that report.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a red flag put up his Gibbons, of
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: course there's a red flag. Who do you think the
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: kidnapper hangs around with nuns and priests and virgins? No,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: somebody just like him. So who would have seen Nancy?
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Likely a cohort, a compatriot of the kidnapper. That's as
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: you know, Brian, when you get information, you have to
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: take it wherever you get it.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've put people on the stand that I
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: had to explain.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Away in opening statement because of their wrap sheet, because
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: of who they are, because of what they did.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Just it could be any number of things wrong with
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the informant.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: But I've got a problem with going to a news
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: outlet as opposed to police. But you know, unlike you
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and I, some people don't like police, believe it or not.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: As of right now, one bitcoin is sixty nine thousand,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: nine hundred and fifty four dollars. Sixty nine thousand, nine
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty four dollars.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: That ain't shabby.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: But back to my original question, at the risk of
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: having to repeat myself, Fitz Gibbons, what do you do
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: when you get a tip, right, you do something, you
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: don't ignore it.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: You have to follow through with it. And what is
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: step number one?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, you know what, I have a JD, I have
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: an LLM, but I don't know how to pull teeth.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: But Jackie, if you could get me set appliers, maybe
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I can.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Right now, what's your first course of action? Explain it?
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, the immediate course of action is going to be
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: a technological search to try to find the source of
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: this tip, to identify the individual, be it an IP address, email, however,
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: they they're gonna go through that. However that tip came in,
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: we don't know the specifics of the method of which
• 7:39
  Speaker 6: it was received, but that's going to be the first.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, maybe we do.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe we do, And if that will help us in
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: our discussion, let me go straight to Dave Matt. We
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: know it was sent to TMZ in email form, correct,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: What else do we know about it? Was it paired
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: with any other inform? Just tell me everything, you know.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: This is one of those things where this is information
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: the lead out to us of the content of the
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: emails that TMZ was able to retreat was sent. We
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: know that it was part and parcel of the demand
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: for you know, the ransom money, remember the bitcoin, the
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: six million dollars. This is the last email TMZ got
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: from the alleged well not the kidnapper.
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: This is a sidebarg to the kidnapper.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: This is somebody who claims to know who the kidnapper
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: is and is willing to out that kidnapper but has
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: yet to do so.
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: This is that guy or that.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: Woman claiming that somehow thinking by saying, yeah, I saw
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie in Mexico is enough proof of life for
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: them TMZ or law enforcement to comp up a bitcoin.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: That's what we know is that there's more information in
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: these notes that have been received by television and TMZ
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: that we don't know yet.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: There's plenty more, you know. They paraphrased everything.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Specifically, it states quote, I know what I saw five
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: days ago south of the border, and I was told
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to shut up, so I know who he is and
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that was definitely Nancy with them now again, TMZ offered
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: to act as an intermediary. I don't know how the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: FBI would feel about that. Straight out to the rest
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: of our All Star panel joining us, hold on, is
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: there anything else? Dave Mack, you need to tell me
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: before the panel weighs in anything else about the missive?
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Did the was the location narrowed in any way other
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: than just south of the border, And what would south
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: of the border be? But do we know anything else
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: about the missive?
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: No, what we know is that south of the border,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: it's a it's an assumption that is just over the border,
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: which is not a good assumption, Nancy. Somebody crosses the border,
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: they can take off in any direction they want to go.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: This is merely a vague representation of what this individual
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: claims they saw in an attempt to get some money.
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: That's all it is.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: And again, there's more to the email that we don't know.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: We don't know all of the information. This is just
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: another sentence in that email received by DMAGA.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: From looking at the map to me, south of if
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: you're in Arizona, directly south of the border, of course,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: is Mexico, specifically Sonora to the south, Baja California to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the southwest. That's what I am assuming they're referring to it.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: There's also Rocky Point that's Puerto Penasco. And just looking
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: along the border to see what else they could possibly
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: be referring to straight out to Kurt Dab, joining us
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: former detective there in Pima County with the Homicide Division. Kurt,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What do you make
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: What would south of the border be from Pima County
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: what is considered south of the border.
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: To me, it would be directly south somewhere in Sonara,
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: whether it's Rocky Point to Aka perto Pinasco, maybe even
• 11:05
  Speaker 7: you know, as far southwest as Tijuana. I've investigated a
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: number of missing individuals that ended up south of the border.
• 11:15
  Speaker 7: We would usually get calls from the federal police saying, hey,
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: we located one of your you know, missing individuals. Usually
• 11:23
  Speaker 7: they were elderly, they have problems with dementia. So I
• 11:28
  Speaker 7: would hope that the investigators would reach out to the
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: Mexican authorities to help them, you know, track down this sighting.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: If they haven't already.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Would the FANS be doing that current Dab or would
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Nano's department be doing it?
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: Well?
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: From my understanding right now is they have a task
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: force working with homicide detectors from the Sheriff's department are
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: working in conjunction with the FBI at the FBI building.
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: So I'm assuming it would be that task force which
• 11:59
  Speaker 7: I think has had by the FBI.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Now joining us, Scott Iiker, digital forensics expert, founding member
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. He was also
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: with Norfolk Virginia PD for twelve years. Also he is
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: at Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, thank you for being with us.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: What do you make of the alleged sighting.
• 12:24
  Speaker 8: Well, sightings are always great, as you mentioned before. Sometimes
• 12:26
  Speaker 8: they lead into great information and solving a case. But
• 12:30
  Speaker 8: a lot of times they're red herrings. So even though
• 12:33
  Speaker 8: we got to spend a lot of time doing those,
• 12:35
  Speaker 8: it's worth the time to track down each one of
• 12:38
  Speaker 8: those sightings just to try to vet them out. When
• 12:42
  Speaker 8: we did, I was dealing with Dylan RedWine down in Colorado,
• 12:47
  Speaker 8: missing boy. It was eventually killed by his father. We
• 12:49
  Speaker 8: had a lot of sightings of him, the boy Dylan,
• 12:54
  Speaker 8: even you know, months years after he went missing. Had
• 13:00
  Speaker 8: to track them down.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Guys, speaking of whether NANOS was is covering alleged signings
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: or is it the FEDS? Is NANOS too distracted to
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: find Nancy Guthrie to you, Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: what can you tell me about a brand new whopper
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: lawsuit against nanas a million dollars.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: Law shrinking number, a million dollar lawsuit coming from a
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: former inmate at the Pima County Jail. In this lawsuit,
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: the Pima County Jail inmate claims that during COVID nineteen,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: he was in the custody and his jail cell grouping
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: was exposed to a deputy who was working between one
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: jail cell that had a COVID positive inmates, and this
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: same sheriff's deputy was working between the COVID positive and
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: those who were not COVID positive in a separate cell,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: and that this same jailer was going between the two groups,
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: basically spreading COVID all over the place. Because this individual
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: accuses the jailer of not wearing gloves, not cleaning his hands,
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: not cleaning himself after going into the cell with COVID
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: positive inmates, and then coming back into a cell that
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: had inmates who had not tested positive for COVID. That's
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: the million dollar lawsuit claiming they were put in physical
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: jeopardy with their lives on the line based on the
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: decisions made by the ny I.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Wonder if any of them actually got COVID, because if
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: none of them got COVID, they're barking up the wrong tree.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: But between a million dollar lawsuit, which even if it
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: is meritless, you still have to pay thousands and thousands
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: of dollars to defend it. You got to hire a lawyer,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: You got to give responses, You may have to give
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: a deposition.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: He's got that hanging over his head. And of course
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: there's this the slow LA could turn fast and very quickly.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: I don't want emergency.
• 15:13
  Speaker 7: The whole world going to this right now.
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: Well, your head's up.
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: This lawless out here, a Desert Law, and there's Wednesday,
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: January served that tent put a prime investigation on A
• 15:22
  Speaker 8: and E.
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: Watched next day on the A and E app.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: That is from our friends at A and E and
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: their reality show Desert Law. Is it airing now in
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: the midst of Nancy Guthries the search for Nancy Guthrie?
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Is it airing?
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah?
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: And the coverage of Nancy Guthrie's case going nationwide internationally
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: is actually causing a bump in the ratings for the show.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, that's enough TV news. I want to
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: talk about Annie Guthrie's car. She has been the subject
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: online and beyond of a lot of scrutiny. This is
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's sister. Many people claiming she's actually the porch guy,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: that her husband is responsible, a lot of unfounded claims.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: This is from our friends at Fox News, and many
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: of those claims are based in the fact that any
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's car was confiscated and to many, many believe the
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: car is still in impound. Okay, what do you know,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: Nancy, Any Guthries car was taken by the Sheriff's department
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: and has been searched, and has been searched and has
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: been searched.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: The vehicle is not in the impound lot right now.
• 16:40
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Last week the Sheriff's department said that the vehicle was
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: being released back two and it's not the case. The
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: vehicle is at the auto mechanic right now where it
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: is still in the custody of the PMA County Sheriff's Department,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: not the Guthries, and is being worked on by this
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: auto mechanic out Nancy. When when a search form is
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: conducted on a vehicle, Dave Matt takes a lot of things.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true when you say the car is being
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: worked on? Would a more accurate description be that it's
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: being put back together? Yes, after an exhaustive search. Yes,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Why is it being put back together, Dave.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: Matc Because it was taken apart while the Sheriff's department
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: and investigators were looking for evidence and it was.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: But they're putting it back together in order.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: To return it to the Guthries.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: That's ah, I need the pliers again. First, Fus Gibbons,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: now him. So are you telling me, Dave Matt that
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: your source says the car is being returned to any
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Guthrie and it's been languishing in repair to put it
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: back together in order to give it back to Annie.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Is that correct? You know what this is called.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: This is having to cross examine your own witness, typically
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: after you have them declared hostile on the stand.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I don't like doing that, but go ahead.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: Well, yes, the Pema County Sheriff's Department has said they
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: are going to return the vehicle to the guth threes,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: but that isn't being done yet, Nancy. They are still
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: in custody of the vehicle and it is at an
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: auto mechanics shop allegedly being put back together. But if
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: you go back and look at the statement made by
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: PMA County, they never said when the vehicle would be
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: returned to the Guthries, only that it would be at
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: some point in time in the future. The vehicle has
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: not been returned. It has been at the auto shop
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: being put back together.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: To current to have joining us former detective Pema County
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: in the homicide division. And it's not easy to get
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: to homicide, by the way. First you start as a cadet,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: then you're at a beat cop. Then you ultimately hopefully
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: get assigned somewhere, maybe in child support recovery, maybe hunting
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: down fugitives. You have to work up for a long
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: time to get into homicide. Okay, dab. When a vehicle
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: is confiscated, that is Sopie ste entered operating procedure. We
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: know Anny Guthrie had her mom, Nancy Guthrie, in the
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: car that evening at some point we've been told, so
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: they probably wanted to look find out if there was
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: blood in the car, find out if there was anything unusual.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: In the car. You would expect to find her.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: DNA in the car because we know she had been
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: sitting in the car, like, there's my DNA in our
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: beat up minivan. But what were they looking for?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: How long is.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: The vehicle normally kept, and what's the timetable for returning
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the vehicle?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Kurt dab.
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: Well, when you're collecting evidence in a case such as this,
• 19:47
  Speaker 7: you're going to keep that evidence until the case is completed,
• 19:51
  Speaker 7: and then you'll be able to determine what evidence gets returned,
• 19:54
  Speaker 7: you know, to suspects, witnesses, or other individuals that were interviewed,
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: the things that they could have been searching for. Obviously
• 20:04
  Speaker 7: they were searching for DNA, whether it be blood or
• 20:06
  Speaker 7: touch DNA. They're also probably going to download the computer
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: system on that vehicle. It's just surprising to me. In
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: the seven years that I spent in homicide, we never
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: took something and then fixed it and gave it back
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: to the people that we took it from.
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: So that's a little weird for me.
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: I would think that if they still held the car
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: in custody or in impound, that there's useful information there
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: and they're not going to release it back. So it's
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: a little perplexing to me as far as who's getting
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: the vehicle fixed. Who ordered it to be fixed before
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: returning it to the family, which still hasn't been done.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: To Scott Iiker joining US former FBI now a precision
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: cellular analysis.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: They have to break down the car.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: By the way, thanks Fox News for this video. They
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: have to break down the car, basically, take it apart,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: take out the seeds, look under the seeds. They have
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to wet, they have to vack the carpet, back the upholster.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about MVAC for DNA, looking for DNA that
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: is invisible to the naked eye. They're looking for fibers,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: They're looking for hair, They're looking for minuscule amounts of
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: blood or some other sort of DNA. They may even
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: be looking for soil, soil where Nancy may have been sitting.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: We don't know what they were looking for, but I
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: do know the car has to be totally broken down.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Explain about breaking down a car and performing that type
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: of search.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: It's particulous.
• 21:47
  Speaker 8: It is meticulous, and you have to think about, all right,
• 21:51
  Speaker 8: what type of case are we looking at. Are we
• 21:53
  Speaker 8: looking at a you know, a car that's been that
• 21:56
  Speaker 8: has compartments that you're hiding drugs in it. Well you've
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: seen that all the time. Is they tear up that
• 22:04
  Speaker 8: car pretty bad. I mean they're ripping out the dashboard,
• 22:06
  Speaker 8: they're ripping out everything. In this case, I wouldn't think
• 22:09
  Speaker 8: they're doing that much damage to the car. They might
• 22:12
  Speaker 8: get under some of the door panels, break some of
• 22:15
  Speaker 8: those little plastic things when they're taking off the door
• 22:17
  Speaker 8: panels to make sure they get everything, the DNA, the hair,
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: the fibers, everything, But it shouldn't be that much damage
• 22:25
  Speaker 8: to this type of car if all we have is
• 22:29
  Speaker 8: that she was later brought home in that car before
• 22:33
  Speaker 8: she went missing. So it gives me a red flag
• 22:37
  Speaker 8: that they've kept this car so long.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: It does not give me a red flag because look
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: how long the DNA analysis is taking when you take down,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: when you take a part of car like that. For
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: all I know, they were using the tires to make casts.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: If you look at some of the original photos, I
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: know the driveway is gravel, partially gravel. Couple of aerial
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: views did show tracks right after the kidnapping. This is
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: from our friends at twelve News. For all I know,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: they were making casts of those tracks comparing them to
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: the vehicle. Just a lot goes into that, and isn't
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: it true Brian Fitzgibbons joining us that in order to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: make casts, think of your arm being put in a cast, right,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: how long that takes and it has to solidify. That's
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: very much like making a cast of a tire. You
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: have to surround it. Just pretend paper mache, that's an
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: easy way to describe it or clay. Then you have
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: to remove it, let it dry, and then start comparing
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: it if they decide there's anything to it, if there
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: is a lead, if it matches, for instance, or possibly matches,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you have to keep the vehicle. You can't give it
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: back because it is now going to be states' evidence.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: So a lot goes in to analyzing a vehicle in
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: a situation like this, because if you miss something technical
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: legal trum, you're screwed.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, And you know as you're mentioning, these things all
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: take time and may require specialized teams to come in
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: and actually assess and analyze the evidence that's into or
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: potential evidence that's inside that vehicle. And I'll add one thing.
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: PMA County has been under a lot of pressure for
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: having returned to the residents a number of times, so
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: I think in this case they were learning from that
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: criticism that they're not going to give up this vehicle
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: until they're one hundred percent sure they're done with it.
• 24:46
  Speaker 9: Family always has to be rolled out. The inside knows
• 24:50
  Speaker 9: the most about Nancy. Why would she have to go
• 24:53
  Speaker 9: and grab some weeds from the garden and cover it.
• 24:56
  Speaker 9: It makes absolutely no sense.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: That I guarantee you FBI has been three inches up
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: all of these children's tailpipes. A million dollar lawsuit or
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: reality show, a tip claiming that Nancy Guthrie has been
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: cited quote south of the Border. It's all swirling in
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: the search for Nancy Guthrie. Straight out to Scott Iiker,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: founding member of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, here's a
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: new one. Let me throw this at you. Her hearing
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: aids absolutely can be tracked. Now we know one pair
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: of hearing aids were left behind, but many believe that
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: was her spare pair, that she was wearing hearing aids
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: when she left the home. Do we know that No,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: but is there reason to believe that yes? If so,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: can they be tracked?
• 25:50
  Speaker 8: And how Nancy? This is just like her pacemaker that
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: we were dealing with earlier on. It's Bluetooth connected connected debility,
• 26:00
  Speaker 8: so it can connect to your phone or to your
• 26:04
  Speaker 8: watch to kind of help you locate your hearing aids
• 26:07
  Speaker 8: within your house or in your car something like that.
• 26:10
  Speaker 8: But this is not long distance. Remember it's like, you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 8: thirty to sixty feet you can get a Bluetooth signal.
• 26:18
  Speaker 8: With some special antennas, you might get further than that,
• 26:21
  Speaker 8: as we've seen them when they were searching for the
• 26:24
  Speaker 8: pacemaker signal, which was also Bluetooth. But we have to
• 26:28
  Speaker 8: run into the problem as do the hearing aids still
• 26:31
  Speaker 8: have power? You know, we know that pacemakers last for years,
• 26:35
  Speaker 8: but hearing aids you need to charge them quite often.
• 26:38
  Speaker 8: So if they are searching for her hearing aids, they're
• 26:41
  Speaker 8: using the Bluetooth scanner like they were doing for the pacemaker.
• 26:46
  Speaker 8: But again it's very short range and will not last
• 26:49
  Speaker 8: very long. We're into the sixth week now, surprisingly, if
• 26:53
  Speaker 8: those hearing aids would still be working.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: But you can do historical tracking. Many many modern hearing
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: aids can be tracked using your smartphone app plus Bluetooth technology.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: It can display the last known location on a map,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: much like find my iPhone, Find my iPad. The apps
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: also show signal strength to help you find the hearing
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: aids within range, and they can provide GPS location data
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: even when they are out of range, out of range
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: of Bluetooth, providing the app was paired. How does it work?
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: You use basically a find my hearing a feature like
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: find my iPhone. When it's close. Apps show the proximity
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: bars or the signal strength. They show last no location.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: They show if the hearing aid is disconnected or out
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: of range, like when you find your iPhone, it shows
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: you the amount of battery left. There are limitations because
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: the hearing aid it has to be paired with your phone.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: That app's got to be running. So that's a lot
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: to take in. By the way, that video was showing
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: you from our friends at Fox News at this juncture
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: straight out to you, Brian Fitzgibbons, I mean we've got
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to try everything.
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, I mean these Bluetooth signals we have, We've
• 28:20
  Speaker 6: talked extensively about the ability to potentially track the pacemaker
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: and now you know the hearing aids, it's certainly possible. Right,
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: What is the historical data? What was the last known
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: location was there a distance from Nancy's phone that could
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: help track this source? So you know it's certainly on
• 28:43
  Speaker 6: the table of something that needs to be looked at.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Well, when you say historical data, guys, this is from
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: our friends that blue fly on YouTube. When we keep
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: referring to historical tracking, that means, let's see, how can
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I explain this in a way like I would tell
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: a jury. For instance, when you have your child or
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: teen on Life three sixty, you can look and see
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: not just where they are at this moment, but you
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: can see where they've been. A little matt will show
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: they went here, they went to school, they went to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the grocery store, they went and got frozen yogurt, and
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: then they came home. You can see that there's a
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: line John the historical data, what happened in recent history.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: That's what that means.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: So when you hear experts talking about historical data, that's
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: all that means.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: So let me.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Understand this, Scott Iker. Some hearing aids have apps like
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: find my iPhone, you know, like a tile you put
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: on your suitcase or whatever you're trying to keep up
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: with your car keys.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Is that how it works?
• 29:49
  Speaker 8: It is, it's similar to that, but you've got to
• 29:51
  Speaker 8: understand different devices have different capabilities. Not all hearing aids
• 29:56
  Speaker 8: have GPS. Most of them are just Bluetooth and can
• 30:00
  Speaker 8: and you get some historical data from Bluetooth devices sometimes
• 30:04
  Speaker 8: you can, depends on if it's a it's related to Google,
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: because Google does connect our track devices via Bluetooth and
• 30:13
  Speaker 8: cellular and WiFi.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Scott, though, there are hearing aids that are paired with
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: your phone. That's if it is paired with your.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Phone, wouldn't it work like find my iPhone?
• 30:26
  Speaker 8: It will? But you know those little tiles that you
• 30:28
  Speaker 8: put in your are the air tags. They're not GPS,
• 30:32
  Speaker 8: they're Bluetooth, so it's reading all the Bluetooth a.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Minute, Wait a minute, Scott.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: You can find your lost suitcase all around the world.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: So if that's bluetooth, how does that work?
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Because you're suggesting that Bluetooth is not as strong as
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: cellular and therefore we couldn't find her hearing ages if
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: in fact she was wearing them.
• 30:51
  Speaker 8: Bluetooth is short range, we understand that, but there's a
• 30:54
  Speaker 8: lot in the airports. There's a lot of Bluetooth capture
• 30:58
  Speaker 8: devices there. That's why they have of there to track
• 31:01
  Speaker 8: those type of air tags. So we can see those
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: air tags when they're at home and at at airport.
• 31:09
  Speaker 8: But if they're out in the middle of the field,
• 31:11
  Speaker 8: those air tags, you wouldn't be able to find them
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: because they're not giving out. There's no collection device, a
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: Bluetooth receiver to connect that device.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Scott Iiker.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: If the hearing aids are still functioning, and even if
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: they're the battery is dead by now, we would still
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: be able to get the historical data where it has
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: been before it went dead. You're telling me that would
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: exist if we're hearing aids were near any form of
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Bluetooth connection.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: That's correct, Huh, A glimmer of hope.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: They're comparing that shot of the porch guy to any
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: and saying that it's really Annie based on the whites
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: of the eyes of the perp.
• 32:03
  Speaker 9: That is not Annie walking up onto that fortune. Also,
• 32:07
  Speaker 9: wouldn't she know that camera existed?
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: An alleged signing a million dollar lawsuit against Sheriff Nano's
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: the reality show on the back burner? Is Nano's simply
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: too distracted to find Nancy Guthrie. How badly did the
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: delay in bringing in the FEDS hurt the search for
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: the eighty four year old grandmother and mother. Joining me
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: right now to answer a lot of questions is Tammy Ballard,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: DNA crime scene consultant, crime scene investigation and reconstruction expert,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: former DNA criminalist for the San Diego Police Department Crime Lab.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Tammy Ballard, thank you for being with us. I have
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: an issue Nanos keeps spouting off about DNA. We know
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: that there is stranger DNA inside Nancy Go's home. Found
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: inside her home, not a family member, not Nancy Guthrie,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: not anyone that can be eliminated, such as the granny nannies.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: What's the hold up? What are they doing at the lab?
• 33:17
  Speaker 10: So the laboratory is no doubt still evaluating additional samples.
• 33:24
  Speaker 10: I would assume they're going to evaluate that integrity of
• 33:28
  Speaker 10: the first results and whether or not they have mixtures,
• 33:32
  Speaker 10: whether or not they have data that they can use
• 33:35
  Speaker 10: to make comparisons to other individuals. If they do evaluate
• 33:40
  Speaker 10: that data and they realize that, okay, this could provide
• 33:44
  Speaker 10: good comparison data, then they're going to have to eliminate
• 33:48
  Speaker 10: all of the people that they have compared to before
• 33:52
  Speaker 10: those known samples from family members, law enforcement that may
• 33:56
  Speaker 10: have touched particular items. So there's a lot of complexity
• 34:01
  Speaker 10: involved to make sure that you're really identifying a potential perpetrator,
• 34:06
  Speaker 10: and hopefully they have enough of that data from the
• 34:09
  Speaker 10: original items they worked. But the second tier approach is
• 34:14
  Speaker 10: a very common one across laboratories. If you don't get
• 34:16
  Speaker 10: those great results on the front end, then you go
• 34:19
  Speaker 10: back and you dig deeper, see what more items can
• 34:22
  Speaker 10: be analyzed, and go from there.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious Tammy Bell, and I'm going to circle
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: back on that topic regarding genetic genealogy family tree DNA
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: matches such as in the Golden State killer j as
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: of DiAngelo case. But give me an explanation if you can,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: about that glove that was found about two point five
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. It was almost immediate
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: that Nano's came out and said, yeah, it's not connected.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: It belongs to a restaurant employee nearby. How did they
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: get that back so quickly.
• 34:55
  Speaker 10: My guess would be that they either received information from
• 35:00
  Speaker 10: somebody that said, hey, this could be your person. They
• 35:03
  Speaker 10: obviously have some information that hasn't been provided to the
• 35:06
  Speaker 10: public such that they can do that direct comparison to
• 35:09
  Speaker 10: that individual and now say, Okay, this is the DNA
• 35:13
  Speaker 10: from this individual, and he's included or excluded from the investigation.
• 35:18
  Speaker 10: So they definitely have more information that they're not providing
• 35:23
  Speaker 10: to the public such that you know, they can make
• 35:25
  Speaker 10: those statements and now exclude that individual.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Which leads me back to the stranger DNA found inside
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the home. If the lab is performing genetic genealogy, what
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: does that tell me? That tells me they have not
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: gotten a hit on CODIS, the Federal DNA Data Bank.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Then there are alternative data banks that allow to have
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: a lot lower standards. For instance, Tammy Ballard, and you
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: can explain this much better than me and the Codis
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Data Bank. You have to make a very string criteria
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: in order for that DNA to put in to be
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: put into the data bank. Compared to the Arizona DNA
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Data Bank, you can have all sorts of DNA can
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: be from a crime scene unresolved, it can be from victims,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: it can be from bodies that have been found.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: All sorts of.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: DNA can go into the Arizona Data Bank. So once
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: you find first of all, let's explain that better than
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I did. What's the difference in the criteria the standard
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: for the CODA Data Bank versus the Arizona State Data Bank.
• 36:37
  Speaker 10: Well, the Arizona State Data Bank is going to be
• 36:41
  Speaker 10: a CODAS database, but they can also have a local
• 36:45
  Speaker 10: CODAS database, they can have a state database, and then
• 36:49
  Speaker 10: you have the National CODAS database. Each one of those
• 36:52
  Speaker 10: is a tiered system because it's very important that the
• 36:57
  Speaker 10: quality of those profiles that enter into those data bases
• 37:01
  Speaker 10: will only be associated with a particular individual. If you
• 37:05
  Speaker 10: have millions and millions of people like you do in
• 37:08
  Speaker 10: the National CODEIS database, if you put in a mixture
• 37:12
  Speaker 10: of DNA that potentially is associated with fifty sixty seventy
• 37:18
  Speaker 10: different people, then you're no better off than you were before.
• 37:22
  Speaker 10: So you really have to put in very high quality
• 37:27
  Speaker 10: samples into each particular database. So the state database has
• 37:32
  Speaker 10: less individuals, allows for more ambiguity. You've got maybe some
• 37:38
  Speaker 10: more complex mixtures that can go into that database, and
• 37:42
  Speaker 10: then you can potentially associate with arrestees other cases that
• 37:48
  Speaker 10: have maybe some of those mixtures that aren't such high
• 37:51
  Speaker 10: quality either, so there's a lot more potential for a
• 37:56
  Speaker 10: hit or an association in those state databases, and definitely local.
• 38:00
  Speaker 10: San Diego had the largest local database in the entire state,
• 38:05
  Speaker 10: so we could put something in, run it and instantly
• 38:08
  Speaker 10: at your desktop. No, if you had an association at
• 38:11
  Speaker 10: the local level, So that also does help speed wise,
• 38:15
  Speaker 10: But they definitely should be maximizing all searches if at
• 38:20
  Speaker 10: all possible.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: That said Tammy Ballard.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: If they've had to come out of the code of
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: databases and go into genetic genealogy to find a match
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to the stranger DNA found in Nancy Guthrie's home, that
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: could take how long?
• 38:40
  Speaker 10: Well, first, the positive news if there's genetic genealogy happening,
• 38:46
  Speaker 10: that means that the integrity of those samples is solid
• 38:51
  Speaker 10: enough to be able to go for the genealogy testing
• 38:55
  Speaker 10: the snip profile development, because that is one limitation of
• 39:01
  Speaker 10: or a potential limitation for genealogy at this point is
• 39:04
  Speaker 10: you cannot do the very complex mixtures like you can
• 39:08
  Speaker 10: with traditional DNA testing. So they must be working with
• 39:12
  Speaker 10: a mixture that is, you know, two very rare. There
• 39:17
  Speaker 10: might be a three person mixture if they can pull
• 39:19
  Speaker 10: somebody out. But the good news is if there is
• 39:22
  Speaker 10: genealogy going on. That means that there are some good
• 39:26
  Speaker 10: samples that were put forward. So why that can take
• 39:29
  Speaker 10: a long time is the development of the profile should
• 39:32
  Speaker 10: hopefully be you know, expedited. It should be a good
• 39:36
  Speaker 10: quality profile. But then with genealogy, you're only as good
• 39:40
  Speaker 10: as what's in the databases as well, and as how
• 39:43
  Speaker 10: many great genealogists are doing all of your legwork. You know,
• 39:47
  Speaker 10: you've got nationality differences, so if you've got different populations,
• 39:53
  Speaker 10: that may or may not be easier to provide that
• 39:57
  Speaker 10: information for genealogy. So there's a lot of actors involved,
• 40:01
  Speaker 10: but I guarantee of genealogy is going on. It's it's
• 40:05
  Speaker 10: happening on a very big team approach.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: What about phenotyping, Tammy Ballard.
• 40:11
  Speaker 10: If you're talking about that, are you talking about the
• 40:13
  Speaker 10: facial recognition as far as like facial features, Yeah, that
• 40:18
  Speaker 10: that is I've seen some phenomenal work with that through
• 40:22
  Speaker 10: the years. We had a profile developed in San Diego
• 40:26
  Speaker 10: for a violent rape murder case and I will tell
• 40:31
  Speaker 10: you that Parabond generated their snapshot technology and it was
• 40:37
  Speaker 10: it was spot on. So there there's definitely some value
• 40:41
  Speaker 10: in that. I think now that they have less it
• 40:46
  Speaker 10: seems like we have less individuals to compare to that,
• 40:49
  Speaker 10: and then maybe it's a multifaceted approach and you do
• 40:51
  Speaker 10: the phenotyping and snapshot is the recommendation for that for sure,
• 40:56
  Speaker 10: because even San Diego was a test lab for that,
• 40:59
  Speaker 10: which is pretty interesting.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Back in the day, straight out to Kurt Dab joining
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: us out of Tucson, former homicide detective in Pema County,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: what was the problem the slowdown on Anos's part bringing
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: in the Feds.
• 41:21
  Speaker 7: Well, that's a good question, Nancy. If I was in
• 41:25
  Speaker 7: charge of that case, they would have been at least
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: notified immediately. Contrary to popular belief. You know, there's not
• 41:32
  Speaker 7: a lot of kidnappings that occur in Pima County, and
• 41:37
  Speaker 7: those that are, they're usually drug cartel related or domestic
• 41:41
  Speaker 7: violence related. So the expertise with kidnapping obviously lies with
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: the FBI. I think that's one of the missteps that
• 41:50
  Speaker 7: Sheriff Dano's made and not contacting them originally and relying on,
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: you know, their investigator's lack of experience, if you will,
• 42:00
  Speaker 7: investigating a case is complicated.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: As this, Kurt Dab.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true that only one hundred and one out
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: of one hundred and ninety six on the force have
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: their full training.
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: Yeahs.
• 42:19
  Speaker 7: As far as patrol deputies, we have a one hundred
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: and ninety six patrol deputies on the Pema County Sheriff's Department,
• 42:25
  Speaker 7: and one hundred and one of those are still on probation,
• 42:30
  Speaker 7: which means they haven't passed their end of probation review
• 42:33
  Speaker 7: after the advanced academy. So it's pretty sad that the
• 42:38
  Speaker 7: department is this depleted, and what it leaves you is
• 42:41
  Speaker 7: a lot of inexperienced initial responders to a call like this.
• 42:47
  Speaker 7: They don't have the mentors that mentor cops you know
• 42:50
  Speaker 7: that have had ten or fifteen or even twenty or
• 42:53
  Speaker 7: more years on they're learning from young cops. So that's
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: where the mistakes, in my opinion, occurred early on in
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: the investigation.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: You know, I've given Nanos a lot of hate Kurt Dab,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: but I don't want to take away from the men
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: and women that are doing the searches. I don't want
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: them to be judged. I mean, I was in the trenches.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I was never an elected official like Nanos is. The
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: people in the trenches are fighting and giving it their
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: best day in and day out, giving it there all.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: I don't want their efforts to be sullied.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, one hundred percent.
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: Even though they are young and inexperienced, the majority of
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: the agency, truthfully speaking, they're still hard working men and
• 43:48
  Speaker 7: women that know how to do the job. It's just
• 43:53
  Speaker 7: you have Sheriff Nanos and some of his antics makes
• 43:56
  Speaker 7: the entire agency look bad. Look, this is not Mayberry.
• 44:01
  Speaker 7: We are a medium to large size agency that covers
• 44:08
  Speaker 7: an area this size bigger than three states. So there
• 44:14
  Speaker 7: are a lot of hard working men and women. They're
• 44:16
  Speaker 7: doing the job. But sometimes when you have a lack
• 44:20
  Speaker 7: of experience in the field, those that are in the
• 44:24
  Speaker 7: command level staff, you know, end up making the calls
• 44:29
  Speaker 7: on the case. And I think that is some of
• 44:31
  Speaker 7: the things that happened or transpired early on in the investigation.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: And you Scott Iiker joining us from Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: what do you think is happening right now with all
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: of the digital data.
• 44:50
  Speaker 8: They're still digging through all that digital data. I mean,
• 44:54
  Speaker 8: every time they get some new lead, they're going to
• 44:57
  Speaker 8: get some new digital data. They're going to down unload
• 45:00
  Speaker 8: phones as we're seeing with the cell right there, the
• 45:03
  Speaker 8: Bluetooth snipper, all that stuff is continually working as new
• 45:07
  Speaker 8: leads come in, or they're going back through the thousands
• 45:10
  Speaker 8: of tips that they've had and going back and looking
• 45:14
  Speaker 8: at Okay, yeah, this person has said this, all right,
• 45:16
  Speaker 8: let's go download their phone and see if that has
• 45:19
  Speaker 8: any value for it. Downloading cars. You know, they're still
• 45:24
  Speaker 8: trying to deal with those visuals of those cars passing
• 45:28
  Speaker 8: by a neighbor's house. That's tough work trying to identify
• 45:31
  Speaker 8: the cars that are passing by so fast that night.
• 45:34
  Speaker 8: So I can see them still working this for a
• 45:37
  Speaker 8: long time in that aspect.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: That earlier videos from our friends at Fox News and
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the most recent from Fox Digital. If you know or
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: think you know anything regarding Nancy Guthrie s whereabouts, remember
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: a prosecution or even a rest is not necessary for
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: you to collect the reward. Dial toll free eight hundred
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: two two five five three two four repeat one eight hundred,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: call FBI, or if you wish to remain anonymous five
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: to zero eight eight two seven four six three repeat
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: five two zero eight eight two seven four six three.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: There is a one point.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Two plus million dollar reward for information leading to the
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: whereabouts of missus Guthrie. We remember American hero Deputy Sheriff
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Kenneth Lewis, Fort ben County Sheriffs, Texas, killed in the
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: line of duty after serving eleven years, leaving behind three
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: grieving children. American hero Deputy Sheriff Kenneth Lewis. Thank you
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: to our guest tonight, especially to you for being with
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: us and keeping the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Gray signing off for tonight.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Good night for
• 47:10
  Speaker 10: Mm hmm.