Latest / Girls Gone Deep / 118: Tips to Build Confidence Eating Pussy When You're a "Baby Bisexual" feat. Liv Love

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118: Tips to Build Confidence Eating Pussy When You're a "Baby Bisexual" feat. Liv Love · Girls Gone Deep

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: In law school, I also had a number of experiences almost hooking up with a girl, but there was this hangup around eating pussy that made me think maybe I'm not bi because I just feel really nervous about that.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I haven't done it yet.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: And because I can't say, yes, I like that, I don't think I'm bi.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: And even when we got into the lifestyle, my very first experience, I eat a girl out and then we play with girls in every single play session.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: It took like a year of being in the lifestyle before I was like, okay, I'm bisexual.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not just a person who plays with girls.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm attracted to women.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: I really like women.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is an identity statement, not just something I do.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but we're going to go every year for the rest of our lives,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: right?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why we've gone eight times at this point.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's addicting as hell.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_04: Crazy.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: Well, everybody, welcome to another episode of Girls Gone Deep.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Elle.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm Vy.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: And today, you've probably heard, we have another voice on the podcast today.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: So we have a lovely guest here today.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: Her name is Liv Love.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I met this beautiful soul at Hedonism at HSB this year, 2025, and hit it off instantly.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I found out a bunch of beautiful things about her.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: So Liv Love, she's a swinger.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: She's a sex writer and a sex educator.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: She teaches workshops as a sexpert on the Temptation Cruises and writes about the lifestyle sex and porn on her blog called honey.com.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: So we will link to that in the show notes.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: So Liv, welcome to the show.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: to be here.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: My heart's beating.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so it often comes off as, oh, I'm submissive with women.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm submissive with women and they want somebody else to take the lead.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so I have stepped in most of the time as like the dominant person when, or topping, if you want to call it that, when I play with women, because I know what I like.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: I know what I want.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm confident in what I'm doing.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: I love to worship a pussy, but that's not the case for most women.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so I wanted to ask you, what made you think about this topic?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like what stood out to you that this is lighting you up right now?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: well first I'll just say what an act of service that you're doing that for other women I think a lot of us need that you know like like my second time playing with a woman the woman was like I'm new to this whole bi thing so you need to take the lead and I was like what's new she's like you know like the last five years oh
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: my god that's funny
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: oh
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: my
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: goodness you have way more experience than me yeah um I think because I have muscles people think that like I should should be the Dom.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a lot to unpack there.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I think that's interesting that you say that because five years does feel new to so many of us who are in our late 20s, 30s, 40s, when we've grown up with just straight couples in the media and in romantic comedies and TV shows.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so basically, that's all that's been modeled to us.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I've been thinking a lot about compulsive heterosexuality.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you're familiar with comphet as the the term.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so basically what has been modeled to us, how much of what we're attracted to is because it's been programmed in us and how much is how we actually feel.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so five years probably does feel like you're a baby bisexual and you don't have a lot of experience when you've probably been giving head as a woman since your formative sexual experiences as a teen.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: And And then to add to that, some people who are in the lifestyle just don't have access to other couples or to play parties or events.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so they're only doing it a few times a year.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so that scarcity creates this like, oh, I'm still new at it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: I haven't had enough experience with it.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is new.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I probably have 10,000 hours of dick sucking, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: But if I wanted to build that up, it would take me the rest of my life to build that many hours eating pussy.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Just because I'm not with a woman, we don't play every single day or every single week or even every month.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: It is new.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to remain new.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think even in the lifestyle, your first five years, super new.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's a new practice.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_04: So how new is it for you then?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: The lifestyle or eating pussy?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_04: Eating pussy.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, both.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'm more
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: curious
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_04: about
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: the eating pussy.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's super new.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I ate pussy for the first time our first night in the lifestyle.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: So that was– I always do the math wrong.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, is it possible it's only been three years?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's only been three years for us.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you're already an educator and like– just doing your thing.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you go right in.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: What is your story?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: So my background is not in like sex therapy or sex ed.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had like a whole life as an attorney before.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And around COVID, like if you saw photos of me, I was very thin, too thin.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I had like a friend hug me and just say like, are you okay?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so grateful.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was not okay.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was stressed out.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was overworking.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was under eating.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't loving myself.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't enjoying life.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so we moved to Houston because cost of living here is so much more affordable.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I could quit my job and it just took like a complete year off.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just need to do a lot of therapy.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: I need to do yoga.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I need to exercise.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just need to like go back to basics.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then I've been doing therapy for like 10 years.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Shake hands with me.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Inner work's the most important work.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: So my therapist loves this quote, like, don't ask what the world needs.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Ask what makes you come alive because the world needs people who come alive.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Snaps to that, girl.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's been kind of this journey of evolving of what am I interested in?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I just kept coming back to writing and writing about my experience.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then when we found the lifestyle, like the writing I had been doing before was very like, like kind of like darker stuff.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was going into my trauma and I was going into overcoming myself, but it was just like painful to write, like pulling feathers from a bird or something.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started writing about sex and I just feel so good when I'm writing about sex.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have so much fun with it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like my voice, like my soul's voice, my child voice, my playful voice gets to come out.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just started the blog for fun for me.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even if it's just for me to kind of go back and be like, Oh dang, like, Thank you so much.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: That was like the first time I had been in a nudity optional place.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like we looked out on the pool deck and we saw all these dicks and we were like, oh my God.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: This is happening.
• 8:31
  UNKNOWN: What have we done?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: You're like, where's the tits?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: Where's the tits?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't get topless until the last day of the cruise.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like just to like show the evolution.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like now we get to Hedo, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And the first thing I do is I'm like, I'm naked for the week, you know?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: So they do workshops on desire as well.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just talking to one of the people who did a workshop.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Amber Mallory.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: She's fantastic.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was telling her how great of a job she did and how cool of a job it would be to do that.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, throw your hat in the ring, like make a deck.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: So me
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: being me, like here I am.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I threw in my hat and
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: now this is what I do.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so which workshops do you do?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know I saw lap dancing on your Instagram.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do lap dancing for couples.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a little different because I make the men dance too.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like not jokey.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, sometimes men's sexuality is played for laughs.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of understand that because also men's sexuality can be really threatening.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: But like with your partner and in certain spaces, especially like men should be encouraged to like feel sexy and be sexy and embody their sexuality the same as women.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fun because at the beginning of the workshop, men are like, ha, I'm dancing.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the end, they're like, Oh, yeah, like, I'm dancing.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good at this.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can fuck.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that one.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then I also do one on blowjobs.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then this year, I added a new offering around pussy play.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's actually what started getting me thinking about performance anxiety, and how to eat pussy and my own relationship to bisexuality.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: So what is your relationship to bisexuality?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: Can we dive into your experience with women?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know you had a question that was like, when did you first like know you were bi or what were the first?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like for a lot of bi women, it's like there are always signs.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: when, when did I have like my first attraction to women?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know when I was like six, three, you know, like, was I too fascinated with my Barbie's boobies?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: But like, you can always justify that, you know,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_06: like
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: feeling them, but there's always these justifications.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: So like, With the Barbies, I'm like, oh, I'm just interested about, like, how my own boobs are going to develop and look, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I had an experience with a girl in college, like, I had a friend that I would make out with all the time.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: But we would just say, like, oh, we're just doing that because, like, guys like it.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had a night with her that went, like, a little bit further.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: But then, like, we were both being massaged by two men.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was like in this like private room off of a party.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so we kind of started by making out and then we kind of separated and we were each being massaged.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then she had like taken her top off.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I went, I was like, I need to, I was in a relationship.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I should not be here.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like leaving the room and I go to just kiss her goodbye.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I like grazed her tit and she was like, Hey.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, like, where am I?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta go.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you would ask me about that experience, I just buried it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just did not talk about that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then even in law school, I was an allied member of the LGBTQ affinity group is what they call them in law schools.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes people can smell stuff on you before you even notice it or before you're willing to let it come up to awareness.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: So people were asking me all the time, are you sure you're not into girls?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sure?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd be like, I'm not
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: sure.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was like, is it that I want to fuck myself?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Is it just that I want the experience?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it was actually like, in law school, I also had a number of experiences, like almost hooking up with a girl.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: But there was this hang up around eating pussy that made me think like, maybe I'm not fine.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because I just...
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: feel really nervous about that.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I haven't done it yet.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: And because I can't say, yes, I like that.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I'm bi.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: And even when we got into the lifestyle, like my very first experience, right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: We, I eat a girl out and then like we play with girls in every single play session.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: It took like a year of being in the lifestyle before I was like, okay, I'm bisexual.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not just a person who plays with girls.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm attracted to women.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I really like women.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is an identity statement, not just like something I do.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: So as you started exploring with women, you know, this was all new to you.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: How was your relationship with the performance anxiety?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: Did you find that at some play sessions you were hesitant or you didn't want to dive in?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_04: Or as you were doing it, you're like, is she liking this?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: Is this good enough?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Should I do something different?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like what was going through your head as you were exploring?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Both.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like there were some girls who were so hot that like I really wanted to eat them out or like I would see my hands like going down to their pussy and then I would just like be like...
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like stop, like I would hate to do a bad job.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost this like existential threat to my identity as a person who's good at sex.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think a lot of people in the lifestyle are like sex enthusiasts and people who consider themselves like really good at sex.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're confronted with this act that like we haven't had practice at.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a transferable skill, like eating dick or sucking dick.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you kind
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_04: of eat it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I swallow it sometimes.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like it's not the same.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, the clit, like, is talked about like a mini dick, but it's really not.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they're not similar acts at all.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I found, like, me and Misha were talking back about– Misha's my husband, for those who don't know him– about all the play sessions we had over the last three years.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And setting aside this temptation cruise and this Hedo trip, like, tons of play, more play than I can count.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I had only eaten, like, five girls out.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's how nervous I was.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I just– would find a way around it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like you would avoid it?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I would avoid it.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think part of it was definitely like fears and projections that I was like had about my own pussy that I was putting on to other people.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what if I don't like how it tastes?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it was mostly just like, I didn't want to do a bad job.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I had had a couple experiences where the whole time I was eating the girl out, I just like wanted to get out of it because I was so nervous that I was doing a bad job.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, does this feel good?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Does that feel good?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Does this feel good?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the other person can feel your nervousness.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I'm super nervous, like I'm making her nervous.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's becoming like less and less pleasurable for us both.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was just like, why would I even do this?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like my husband's so good at eating pussy.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'll just tap him in, you know, like I'm not going to like ruin this experience for everybody just because like I suck at this.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So much of what you just said resonated with me.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like you were telling my story.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been really struggling is a strong word, but like just Reflecting and figuring out what my kind of sexuality is and where I am on the Kinsey scale, let's say.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just am trying to extricate how much of me not wanting to go down on someone is the lack of experience and how much of it is just not being into it and being okay with that.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think also a huge fear of mine in these spaces is so many of the women that I run into do identify as bisexual or bi-curious and couples are always looking...
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not always, sorry, are...
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: frequently looking for women who will play with both the female and male partner.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm not offering that, will I be less desirable in these spaces?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just trying to extricate so many parts of it and then being okay with possibly being less bi than some other women in the space.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sharing that.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess I kind of want to poke a little bit more into what you just said, V, if it's okay, is to like, as you're sitting in this space of trying to figure out, is it lack of experience or am I truly just less by?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_04: What is your, I guess, instinct or gut kind of telling you as you observe or is it too soon?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: My gut tells me that I'm way more hetero because, like, when I think about sucking dick, my mouth starts to water.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just intrinsically turned on.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel a little flutter in my pussy right now thinking about dicks.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: But when I think about pussies, it feels more academic.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And, like, Liv, what you were saying, you know, is she having fun?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, now I have to do this thing.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I'm trying to figure out whether it's lack of experience or I'm just not into it, but I've never had the mouth-watering experience.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: I do, however, experience a little bit of like tingles and mouthwatering when I think about making out with women and touching their soft skin and playing with tits and nipples.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the pussy doesn't necessarily do it for me.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but the sensual connection and the eroticism and like women are pretty.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: They're like little goddesses that need to be worshipped and I love the touch and the smell and they're slower than guys and softer.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I get the– turn on by that factor, which is interesting.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I think where I differ is I see a pussy and I get excited.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like I fantasize about licking pussy.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: I will, if I'm masturbating or if a woman that I'm chatting with sends me a naughty photo, like I will imagine myself in that space with her, like worshiping her, doing something to her and I get wet as I masturbate to something like that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, I think I truly am bisexual, but like when it comes to really thinking about, could I date a woman?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I have in the past.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: I still think that at the end of the day, I want a cock.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like 51-49, if I could put it as close to that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: I am 51% I need a guy at the end of the day, but like 49%, I really fucking like women a lot.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, also there's the labels of like heteroromantic and bisexual.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Liv, you're nodding your head.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know a Oh, my God.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: All
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: these words.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: I have to be honest.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: I really
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: hate labels.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like it puts you in a box.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I think everyone should just be flexible.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_04: Just flow through it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: You may or may not like the same sex or not.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's it.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all so person dependent, right?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that to girls who I would talk about.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: I met this woman on the Temptation Cruise and we were like, are you into girls?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, well, I know I'm into men.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we're like, that's not really an answer.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_06: But
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: it does feel like you have to choose, even these scales, are you slightly more heterosexual?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are you slightly more lesbian or something?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: You always have to choose.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: But in fact, I think that's part of biracial.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: you can like both equally.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can not choose.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like if my husband had been born a woman, I like to think that like we would have still found each other.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's so person dependent and like I'm into men, but I'm not into all men and I'm into girls, but I'm not into every girl I meet, you know?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: And when you ask that question of that person or, you know, just, you know, when I ask some women, they're like, well, it depends on the girl.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like sometimes, you know, and I do believe that everything is contextual.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's set setting, like everything, the vibe, the energy, It's not just who the person is.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's like everything else as well too.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, getting over eating pussy was like pursuing the girls that I was really attracted to.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's something that really helped me eat pussy.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, I like this girl so much.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to pleasure her.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so like, I'm going to go out and get it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like in the States where I was like, eh.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: like, you know, it's neither here nor there.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was no reason for me to overcome the fear.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had more fear than arousal, but when I have more arousal, then like the fear can kind of tamper out.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: That makes a ton of sense.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: The scale tipped.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just to, if anybody has that little thread in the back of their mind and they're like, wait, but define heteroromantic.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just looked it up.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So Google AI says, heteroromantic describes an individual who experiences romantic attraction towards people of a different gender than their own.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like Al...
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: despite not liking labels, you're probably more heteroromantic.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you want a romantic relationship with more men than you do with women, but you are fully bisexual.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so you want to fuck everybody, but not everybody, just the people that you like and are attracted to.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: even that is like, when you talk about compulsive heteronormativeness, I knew very early growing up that it would never be okay for me to be in a relationship with a woman.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I wonder how much of me being like, oh, well, I probably wouldn't date a woman or I could never marry a woman.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Even that is still imprinting, social conditioning.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: If I lived in a different like a different childhood or a fully healed childhood.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like what might I say?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like these things can change
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: over time.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: There is generational stuff that passes on through us.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's like in our tissues, we remember it because that's the same thing that happened to me is I had a girlfriend in high school into college and we were heavy, lustful.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was like, my pussy is doing things that have never happened with a guy.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like what is this?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: And we got so hot and heavy so fast that the L-bomb was being dropped that she ended up leaving me right at the thick of it because she said, you could never tell your family that you're with me.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so why are we going to continue?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then she just straight up cut me off.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that was it.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: Wouldn't answer my calls, my texts, my emails.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: That was back when we had MySpace.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: I was sending her messages, nothing.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: But it is in our bones.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_04: We have trauma from this.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry you went through that.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first time I've heard that.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was very tough.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: I cried for, I feel like a whole year it affected me.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: And that was the Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: before I got married.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I asked Em, I said, I need to go see her again because I just need to know like what that was.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so I reached out seven years later.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so I met her and it was still hot and heavy and lustful, but it was just that, you know, I didn't see that, you know, romantic kind of a vibe that I thought I saw when I was a kid because I was still 18 when that happened.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I was young.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know, but
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: it was still fucking fun.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And did it cross your mind when you were hurting that you could come out or did that never like
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: No, it became something that I had to accept.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: In that moment, I was like, fuck, she's right.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_04: I just need to keep going.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_04: I can never be with a woman, so let's just move on.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: What would happen if you came out to your parents?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, my God.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think they would understand.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: They would have definitely cut me off from a few things emotionally.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's like this abuse that is so emotional that it would just destroy me.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: you know, it's hard to explain, but yeah.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's better to kind of live a double life like you are.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't, if they ever found out about like, I have no idea how this would be received.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: I would be afraid.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can I say one more thing on that?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go for it.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: The role of a parent is, in the early days is to teach the kid how the parent would react to certain behavior, right?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that like as a kid grows up, like then they no longer need the parent, right?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, I know my parent would say no, therefore like it's kind of the shortcut for right action or wrong action.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And like they do these experiments with babies.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's called like the still face experiment.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Have you heard of it?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think I may have, keep going.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you hold, like they'll hold a baby in their arms and they'll have the mom look at the baby and the mom starts by like smiling, laughing, Even like giving a scowling face.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: The baby is okay through all of this.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like mom can be upset.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Mom can be happy.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: But if mom goes still faced, baby will start freaking out.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Baby will scream.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Baby will cry.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Remain still faced.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: The baby is just going to get more and more upset.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: So like actually the most painful thing you can do to a child is to neglect it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you talk about like what they would do and like the most painful thing being like they would cut you off.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think we understate like how painful neglect is and how painful it is when our family turns away from us that like actually be way worse if they would like score like if they would scowl at us or if they'd scold us or like that's the kind of stuff like we can take that, but we cannot take it when they turn away.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because it's almost like they're leaving us behind.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: They don't even have enough love for us to even try and save us, so to speak, would be the words that come to mind.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: Fight for you.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it makes a ton of sense.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you for sharing that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: That definitely highlighted a few things for me.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: My
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: love goes out to anyone who's listening who is going through something similar as Al and has to kind of live this kind of double life.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I am so glad that you have found your community where you can be your true authentic self, at least at many points in your life.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like right now, this is very satisfactory to me that I have a community to reach out to and I can share this openly.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so thank you for being a part of this journey with me, everybody who's listening, because this is healing for me, honestly.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, guys, I'm getting gushy.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_06: I know.
• 26:27
  UNKNOWN: Okay, bye.
• 26:27
  UNKNOWN: Bye.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hey listeners, next time you're shopping for organic intimacy products and sex toys, shop at woomoreplay.com using our affiliate link, which is in every episode description.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: They have everything from vibrators to lube to pH balancing soaps, all of which we use ourselves and we highly recommend.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great way to support the show at no extra cost to you.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Every little bit helps keep our content coming to you.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for being a part of our community.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now back to the show.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're going to circle back to, you know, eating pussy, I'm thinking about community.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And yesterday I was in a tantric latihan workshop.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we ended up doing Liquid Love, which is...
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So tantric latihan is like a movement-based practice where everybody wears blindfolds and you just follow the movements of your body.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you come in contact with other people, you kind of explore the different connections.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this beautiful metaphor for life, essentially, and honoring your authentic yeses and authentic noes.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And accepting people's no's.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: If people break the physical connection, being okay with that and just letting your body move in a different direction or something.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: So then we took it a step further and we did liquid love, which is everybody's laying down.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's basically like Nuru on a giant tarp with coconut oil.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: There were over 30 people.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so actually at times I felt very trapped, like I couldn't move, which was also an interesting thing to kind of work through.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just all metaphors.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fucking cool.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: But there was one moment when I felt like everybody was in physical connections with other people around me.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's blindfolded.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of moving my arms around trying to find a connection to start exploring and no one was kind of responding.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, you know what?
• 28:42
  UNKNOWN: I'm
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just kind of sit here and wait for a connection to find me.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I did that, you know who found me?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: A woman.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew it was a woman because of obviously the lack of hair and then I felt the tits a little bit.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I felt so held and it was just the exact...
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: that I needed in that moment.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so as I'm working through this, am I bisexual?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: How bisexual am I?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yesterday was a really great opportunity for me to, with a blindfold on, taking sight away, just feel what a female energy feels like and what a male energy feels like.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking in very binary terms right now, but in this space, I did feel like, okay, this feels comforting and loving.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel turned on sexually, and that's okay.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then later in the experience, I found a very masculine male energy.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt turned on.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a very different experience than the more loving, nurturing experience that I had with a woman.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I can't have a more sexual, primal kind of feeling with a woman.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: But...
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was the dichotomy that I experienced yesterday.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was kind of helpful and healing and clarifying for me to be like, oh, this is how I feel around female energies and that's okay.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And around male energies, I literally have like a tingling in my pussy and it's okay to say I'm more turned on by men.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: I love the work that we do here because of the questions that we constantly ask ourselves and the curiosity that we enter in some of these experiences because you were able to challenge this question in your mind at this event that helped reveal some really valuable and important information for you.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm happy that you had that unraveling.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: Of the results.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_04: So does that mean you're not going to lick my pussy again?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, because I think I'm on like on the Kinsey scale.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am like a two, three.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: So like the Kinsey scale for anyone.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And again, sorry if you don't like labels.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love labels because I love like being able to articulate in a different way.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it helps me just kind of like wrap my head around labels.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: where I'm at, and then I can deviate from there.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I like a structure, and then within the structure you can play, if that makes sense.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100% that makes sense.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So with the Kinsey scale, it's a scale of one to six of heterosexual to homosexual.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so three is like full on buy.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: You like both.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say I'm somewhere between a two and a three.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: So like I said, I do love the making out with women.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Some women don't want to touch other women, right?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I do still want to touch other women.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there's very infrequent, but you know, very wonderful times that I do love going down on a woman.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I just need to be open to experiences.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I just think it's so interesting.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: You say that about the two, three, because before, like somehow around my birthday, which was this January, someone asked me that question, like on the Kinsey scale, where are you?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, same as you.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I think I'm just a little bit more like on a preference side for men.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then, um, Like I, I started masturbating to the idea of eating out pussies because I felt like anytime I'm afraid of something, I like to masturbate to it because then I can kind of train myself to become aroused to it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like before we full swapped, like I probably masturbated to that idea like 300 times, like an insane number of times.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: So by the time it happened, like the anticipation of it, like I was dripping.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was so exciting.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so like, Everything that I'm afraid of happening, I'll just masturbate to it until, like, I find it way more arousing than frightening.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so after Hedo, at the end of Hedo, one of our friends was like, where on the Kinsey sale do you think you are?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I find, like, women more than men.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I, like, within, like, three months went from one side to the other.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Just, I think...
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: growing in comfort and growing in confidence so I'm like super curious about your journey and where you'll be as you kind of like play with this like hyper attunement that you're starting to notice around how you feel around different like women men energies because like for me it shifted really fast like all of a sudden now I'm like actually I'm yeah it's easier for me to say yes to a woman than it is to a man
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: I can't help but think that this is like Pavlov's dog.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: And like, learn to love it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: But then one would argue, like, if you need to train yourself so hard to be into something, why are you doing it?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: Why are you doing it?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: true.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I was doing it because it didn't make sense to me.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how is it that and my experience might be completely different from yours, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't mean to say anything about yours.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I knew that I had insecurities about how my pussy looks and how my pussy tastes.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so I regularly like turn down oral sex.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like my husband would eat me out every day if it were up to him.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I'll be like, oh, like I haven't showered or like, I just, I don't know right now, you know?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like always because I'm like, I feel like I should just like go look.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if she's like, I like have this, I used to like, my inner lips are not symmetrical and I would like pull them out and be like, oh, you know, this one's like slightly longer.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this one looks slightly like this.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I worried so much about how my pussy looked.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: And there's this artist piece, The Wall of Vulvas, Like all those casts of
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: vulvas.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Which is referenced in your blog post, help eating pussy for the first time.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: you guys the same person?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: you're talking live.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, are you inside my fucking head?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is crazy.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So what?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, we cut you off.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you on that journey?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you kind of overcome that?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's either in that post or a different one.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: book about sex that Madonna did.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's in that post.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love you.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the way she talks about her pussy is so radically different than how I ever thought about talking about my pussy.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I think it smells fresh like a baby, and I love how my pussy looks, and I'll just look in the mirror and love on it, basically.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to be able to do that with my pussy.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And my husband tells me all the time, he's like, you have such a pretty pussy.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: I love how you taste like 10 years of telling me this.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: And like only this year was like, maybe he's not just like saying that.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe that's, he liked, he actually likes it.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe when other people tell me that it's not something they're just saying to me to like make me feel better or something in bed.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like what if I took their words as true, you know?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and I would taste myself, but I would always taste myself with kind of this like fearfulness or level of like, um, maybe like a little bit of disgust or fear in me, you know, like, and so I started to try to taste myself with like, how would Madonna taste herself?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: You
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: know, you know, so I would like take it out and anticipate it feeling good, like anticipate it smelling good, anticipate it like tasting good and then taste it and just tell myself, cause you know, the brain tells us a lot of stuff that is just not true.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I tell myself like, okay, This does taste good.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or this does taste mild.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Or what can I say about it that's also true, even if I have some level of fear or disgust in me?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: And just over time, I just let that go more and more.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And looking at that wall of vulvas was so healing because almost nobody is symmetrical.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, nobody.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: Except for Elle, who has a perfect porn pussy.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: Guys, stop it.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, this is such good– Tips because I took a poll on Instagram and the question was, do you ever worry about your natural scent down there?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: And 32% said yes, all of the time.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: 43% said sometimes and 25% said, nope, I trust my body.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_04: And there's over 60 women that had answered this poll.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: So you're talking the majority of women.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: 75%.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: 75% are thinking that their scent is wrong or off or not right.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: And so this is beautiful, beautiful tips for everybody.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: And just really understanding that our scent changes throughout our cycle and that is completely normal for that to happen.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's embracing your changes and your flavor and it's kind of going into it like what flavor am I today you know
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: yeah like even discharge is normal like there's a lot of talk about like music even we'll talk about how like my pussy smell fresh and clean and shit like that like no like pussy smells like pussy pussy tastes like pussy it's gonna discharge sometimes just like you sweat like you have glands everywhere and they like need to detox your body like your pussy is a part of that like it's not abnormal you don't have an infection just because like one day your pussy is different than the day before like it's doing what it needs to do to love and support your body.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: All of that is good.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'll taste the discharge.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: All of this to say though, it is good to have good hygiene practice.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: A sweaty pussy, you can clean that up.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: And also if you smell fishy, then that could be an indication of Yeah, I think so.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a balance of like not just being like, well, whatever I smell like is fine.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: that
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: like–
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really overblown.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: We don't talk about how bad cum smells or does cum have the right consistency or all of this stuff.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: And dicks sometimes smell.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've definitely had some dirty dicks.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Men need to work on hygiene way more than women.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: Look, I've been licking pussy for 10 years and plus now, and I can honestly say that that I had one woman that I can actively remember out of my 10 years experience that I was like, wow, something is off.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I instantly went down on her and I instantly pulled away.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, okay, we're going to, I was in an orgy and I was like, I'm just going to shimmy somewhere else.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: And it was that.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: But how many women have I played with?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: 10 years.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is very rare that I was ever put off by any woman's pussy.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_04: So I agree with you, Liv, that I think that women can overblow it and they can, we're much harder on ourselves than we need to be.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I just like, I think that it's, it's a way of reinforcing this like societal norm that doesn't value women's pleasure.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like it gets women to say like, oh, I don't want to be pleasured right now.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let me just give you a blowjob.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I know so many women who are like, I can only come with a vibrator and I'll be like, okay, well, like, does he try eating you out?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, well, I don't want to make him eat me out because I'm worried about how I smell or taste.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I know the fishy thing, but like, it can almost like, you really need to smell a dead fish and then smell your pussy if you want to compare it to fishy, because it can be so easy for us to get into our head and be like, is this fishy?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that what is, you know what I mean?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're not
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_04: mistaking that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: You'll know, like, does it smell like being by the lake?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_04: No, but you're right.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_04: People are using this as an excuse and it's inhibiting sexuality and connection and intimacy.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: And then we're missing out on pleasure as And, um, I like your tips of just like embracing what it is that you smell like.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: If it's not smelling like a lake, it's just you.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_04: And part of this issue too,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: if it's not smelling like a lake, it's just you.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're open for business.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my God.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_04: And like, it doesn't help that the marketing industry really preys on these fears of women.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like all of those washes that are out there and the douches, it's like, you're supposed And it's like, no, I'm not.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_04: I never in this world were we ever supposed to smell like that.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_04: We were supposed to smell.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: I want to smell like me.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to mask it with perfumes because that's what men are attracted to.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: like hormones and pheromones.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think the best pussies, yeah, they don't smell like, so I'm thinking of you, Al, and I think you do the work.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: You do probiotics and supplements and stuff.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so like your microbiome is great.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so naturally you, you taste like nothing.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I'm sure at different times in your cycle, it's like a little bit more pronounced, but like I've tasted you a little bit more like mustard.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so Liv, to your point of like, you know, pussy tastes like pussy.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's supposed to smell like pussy.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's supposed to taste like pussy.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of a healthy pussy that smells and tastes like pussy, it's musky is the word that comes to mind.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_04: you guys agree?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_04: I know what you're saying.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know the word to describe it, but there is a scent and an odor to it, but it's never one that has been off-putting to me that I'm like, nope, I'm not doing this.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not staying down here.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, no, more.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: Let me get more out of there.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see what else is going on.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: I would say sweet is probably the word, like slightly sweet.
• 43:23
  UNKNOWN: Mm-hmm.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: And like also while eating pussy, this is something that Misha taught me.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: He really helped me get good at it so that I could also address like that prong of the fear and like women change as they become more aroused.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: So like as I'm eating someone out, like I'll notice that she'll get wetter or like more lubricated.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like that might taste one way.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I like to moan to kind of signal the change is happening.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: as she keeps going, it might get a little bit thicker and then a little bit sweeter, a little bit tangier.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: So even over the course of your orgasm cycle, you change taste as well.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I agree that as you start playing more, there's maybe some stuff that was there before and now you're releasing fresh, new releasing.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: When you think of squirt juice, which is fresh right out of your body, that to me has always tasted well and delicious and even sweet.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so I agree with you.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_04: It does change as you keep playing.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_04: So The summary here is keep going because it's just going to taste better.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wait.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned Misha helped you be good at eating pussy.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Give us some tips,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: girl.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my gosh.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Also, every time a woman ate me out and she was really good, I'd be like, how did you get really good and what tips do you have?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: And every single woman was like, my husband taught me.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like every single woman.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because they've been doing it since they were a teen.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: They had their 10,000 hours.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Learn how to give good head.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't teach that at all.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: God.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: So one woman told me like, it's not the tip of your tongue, it's the area right above it.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: So like take off the first centimeter of your tongue and right there, that's the part of your tongue you want to use.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I was getting ready to do the pussy play workshop on Temptation Cruise and we had played with three couples so far and I had eaten none of them out.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, who the fuck am I to be teaching this this workshop.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Can I even do this?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in my mind, the workshop was going to be mostly about receiving.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: No one can give someone else an orgasm, right?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: An orgasm comes from us.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: We can do things to help facilitate the conditions under which it arises, but the orgasm is happening in the brain.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so the workshop was mostly about helping women calm down, helping women let their minds go.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really important to let yourself fantasize.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, Let yourself go where it wants to go.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes I think what happens is like the brain is fantasizing and then we experience a fantasy that like the brain doesn't like, like there's shame.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then like, whoa, we start to shut down and close down.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: So like really encouraging women to just like, let it go.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, that's not going to work.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have this pocket pussy.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: with me.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Daisy.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I want to show people what to do, you know?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I don't think I can.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that night, Misha sat down and basically wrote a whole curriculum for me on how to take a pussy from dry to multiple orgasms.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so...
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he's so good at eating pussy.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you both have the chance to have him eat your pussies because he's so
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: good.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's like why we're married.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, my God.
• 46:33
  UNKNOWN: Oh, my God.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: I like to say that's funny because I don't know if you met my partner, Jay, at Hedo, but he is also extremely good at eating pussy.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to say the same thing like– I fell in love with him when he went down on me on like the second date.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, you can stay.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're the same person.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is crazy.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: The first time you and Misha hooked up, I came like seven times like consecutively and I'd never done that.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, He can do whatever he wants.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: He must have been like a wet noodle.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Here's
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: the keys to my house.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: Here's my bank account number.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: What else do you need?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my God.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: So you have Daisy in hand.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us the
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: tips.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: So first of all, like, I think it's on women in part to get good at receiving, right?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so doing those mind-body-spirit practices, letting yourself go, feeling your body, enjoying your body.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: When you experience a negative thought about your body, especially in sex play, just toss it out.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can say thank you, come back later.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: If this is a real thing, I want to hear from you, but not right now.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Feel up your body.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think the whole body, there's not scientific evidence for this, right?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: But there is evidence that your entire yoni is erectile tissue.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we know that it expands into our legs, right?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Cause you can feel like, I love when people feel into my inner thigh.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: So like, why isn't the whole body erectile tissue?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of how I like to think about it.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, wake up all the blood, wake up everything.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can experience a full body orgasm.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: And even when I orgasm, I like to imagine like fireworks going off, like throughout my whole body, like let it like radiate down and all the way up.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Of course they're like different sizes of orgasms, but a big one can like really blow you out.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, And I think the first part for the giver is to help her with those mind practices.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: So like while feeling on her body or feeling on her breasts, like tell her how beautiful you think, like anything that's true, right?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: How beautiful is she?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are there parts of her body that you really love?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Are there parts of her that you really love?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Things that you've seen her do lately, like areas you've seen her grow, you know, like what do you love about this person?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: Tell them.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do that even for a play partner you've just met, right?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's tons of stuff that you can lift up and praise.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then you start to like, as the body starts to undulate, then I like to like work my way down.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's no reason to like force a pussy to like receive before it's ready, right?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can receive when we're super wet.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: We can receive when we're dry, but at least like our mind is there.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: But like, you know, the body's ready when you start to kind of like undulate when you feel those like pulses and she starts speaking to you.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I like to ask the women to tell the men when they're ready, like, I'm ready now, go down now.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because so often, I really don't like it when someone just reaches for my pussy.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it shows a little bit.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: She's not ready yet.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Respect me.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: Respect where she's at.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Women take 20 minutes on average to come up to temp, right?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of the workshop is just biding that time of being in that erotic space so that you can get ready.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to rush her.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: We really...
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: For a while, we're trying to have sex every single day.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I just had real issues with this.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, the problem is it's too many quickies.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot just be ready.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: If we don't have the time to set aside to do it, I can't do it because I can't betray her.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I betray my pussy, it sets me back.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: So then I have to do repair work.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Then I have to get her trust again.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: How is she going to relax if she can't trust me to protect her?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're building her up.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then I like to start with like big lapping licks like a dog would do to water.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like big flat tongue licks.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: bottom to top, bottom to top.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: You can even just set that flat tongue on her.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of women will start to move into it.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Give her control.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Let her show what kind of movement she likes.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Just because she liked one thing yesterday does not mean that she's going to like that same thing today and respect where she's at.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can start there and just start with that big, Flat tongue, just like sucking dick too, you want it to be really wet.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: So like you can spit on it.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you want to start with fingers, I much prefer it when someone like spit on their fingers and start to like rub and touch me.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or like I like when someone takes like the base of their palm and starts to kind of like press it.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Into me.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like needing.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of those things, and then you can kind of watch the blood come into the pussy, just like the blood comes into the cock.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like getting physically warm.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get to experiment and see like what this pussy likes.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then, so I like to like try something, see how she responds, try something, see how she responds.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is why.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: anxiety and pussy eating just cannot go together because there's no room for thought while eating pussy it's just feel respond feel respond feel respond and so if the brain if like the narrative brain is on and it's like does this feel good does that feel good like you're out you're out the game and like she's not going to be able to relax you're not relaxed so it's really like Relax, place your flat tongue on there.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: Then start to use that, not the tip, but right after the tip to kind of, I like to like press underneath the clitoris.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'll press on top of the clitoris.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'll go like a little bit side to side and just see which of those motions is she digging right now, you know?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll just keep doing that.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not like, again, like sucking dick.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: a guy can come in two minutes.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's the average time it takes, right?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of dick sucking is about actually like changing your technique so that he doesn't come too fast, about kind of edging him up to like a really big orgasm.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: But eating pussy is the opposite.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you find something that works, you just keep doing that.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: You keep doing that rhythmically, like stay exactly on pace.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: If she needs to go faster or slower, like she'll move her hips, right?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like encourage her to move your head slightly if you're in like slightly the wrong part, you know?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: But like, it's really just about you can try one or three things, find what works and just keep going.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you'll like get her on the runway.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: You'll feel her getting wetter.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're going to keep doing that some more.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: You'll feel her getting wetter.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then she's going to come.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then right as she's about to come, the click gets super heavy, heavy, right?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like it, it gets really big.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: It pokes itself out and then it gets really sensitive to stimulus.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: So like right around that time, then you want to kind of ease off the click.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so whether you're like doing a sucking motion or you're doing that kind of like meeting with your tongue, whatever you're doing, or at least for me, like I like to just ease up a little bit and she can always ask for more by like, you know, kind of begging and pushing herself into you, but you can just like do what you're doing, but at 80% or something.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can also move to like, if she's super sensitive, you can move to on top of the clitoral hood because that part is less sensitive.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then, and then when you get her to come, go back to that flat tongue.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you just, I just like to lay that flat tongue on there for like the entirety of her orgasm.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of women, I think, think that they can't come again, but it's just that what typically happens is like when you're orgasming, someone tries to overstimulate you right in that moment.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: They think it's like a guy because a guy oftentimes in the end might need like a lot of stimulation right at the very end, especially around like his tip or what might be like the equivalent of the clitoris.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: But like a woman is not that way.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you get overstimulated right when you're orgasming, then you're out, like tap me out.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: But if you just lay that flat tongue on it's super wet it's super juicy then you can kind of like you'll feel her kind of go back in and then she's ready for more you just run it all back
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: oh yeah snaps lips
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Elle here, and I wanted to take a quick moment to share with you listeners on how you can best support us.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: First is following us on Instagram at Girls Gone Deep Pod, and two is leaving us a review.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're enjoying this podcast, you like the content, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform, whether that be Apple Podcasts or Spotify or both.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: More followers and more reviews help us reach a wider audience.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: We can attract more sex-positive guests to join us on our show, and we can It will entice more brands to partner with us.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_04: And ultimately, this really helps us create even better content for you.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it really makes a big difference.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_04: And we really appreciate your support.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: I literally am like about to grab my vibrator.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my God, I want some of that.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: I had a really great orgasm last night.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what I have been doing with...
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: partners and with myself is similar to what you're saying.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I achieve orgasm, not stopping there just like kind of like letting it subside a little bit and then just pushing myself a little bit further so like put the vibrator back on full force and like and I kind of picture it as like a mountaintop and then like smaller craggy mountains and so I'll get like the let's say like the Mount Everest orgasm and then come down to like you know base camp Base camp and then like go back up to like a couple more of the mountain range tops.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just so satisfying in a way that orgasms never used to be when I was younger and didn't know that you could push yourself further.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I thought it was just like, okay, one big orgasm.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're done.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's just so much more there.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_04: And this is making me think about my situation because oftentimes when I orgasm, I orgasm so hard and I'm usually like still getting full force, whatever's happening that made me orgasm that I'm wondering if it's maybe if I should just scale back a little bit so that I can save a little bit in the tank and then kind of have another orgasm after that.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I can have multiple orgasms, but...
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_04: I just, I come so fucking hard.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes it's out of body that like, I don't know, but this is making me like pause for a second and I'm going to start observing what's happening through my orgasm and then how many times that orgasm after that.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I appreciate you sharing that little tip about kind of flat tongue, tonguing it while she's coming.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: This is great.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sharing this because again, I have two more polls on Instagram.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_04: And the one is, have you ever felt curious about women, but you're unsure what to do sexually?
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_04: And again, this is 84% of women are, yeah, 100% of the time, I have no idea what I'm doing.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: The other ones say, 10% says, yeah, that's the reason why I'm above the waist bisexual, because I'm not really sure what to do.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_04: And then the 36% said, I've played, but I often question my skills.
• 57:38
  UNKNOWN: Okay.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_04: So it's so interesting.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then the other question I asked was, have you felt attraction to women, but you held out sexually due to fear or uncertainty?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_04: And again, this is 95% said, yeah, I, because I'm not sure I don't engage at all.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_04: So yes, totally.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: And a little, they were split 47 and 47%.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you for sharing how to lick pussy pretty good.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_04: Cause this may gain some confidence in some women here who are struggling.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty good.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was pretty expert, man.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 58:08
  UNKNOWN: Thank you.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know, Liv, when I'm masturbating about things that I'm scared of, I'm just going to be picturing you telling that story.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: my god.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: People masturbating to me is like I masturbate to people masturbating to me.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: going to be this constant feedback loop between us.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be like a person that people have my poster on their ceiling and they jack off to.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, I fucking love this.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: Can I share one more tip?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, please do.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Something that was really helpful for me too was coming into a pussy that's already orgasmed.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: So like, the like I would say like I had like a gateway girl experience that was just so good like she was so hot and she was I just like really wanted to pleasure her that I like really wanted to eat her out but I got really lucky because like Misha had already eaten her out so by the time that I came to her like she was so wet she was so engorged that it was just super easy like I barely had to do anything and that like built my confidence and I was like oh like I can do this and it's not that different right like it's probably like 25% easier, 50% easier to make a girl come again than it is the first time.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so like, if you're nervous, like another cool way to start, like, I'd love to start like, okay, well let's have like the men eat out the women and then like women can eat out women, you know, just to set themselves up for or set yourself up for success.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Jay and I have used similar techniques when, so I think the first time I made a woman, come or helped a woman to come, pleasured a woman and she came, it was like he had already played with her and he knew she was someone who came relatively easily.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I'm someone who takes a very long time.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so he probably would not have encouraged me to go down on me for the first time.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: So he wanted to build my confidence.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he was like, okay, this is a really great girl to do that with.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then same Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: These are all great tips.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of want to add one
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_04: more because I really love fears, desires, and boundaries.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so if you are going into a play experience with a woman and you're feeling a little bit nervous because you want to satisfy or whatever it may Share that in the beginning.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then you can have a conversation around what that fear is and say, okay, well, how can we work around that?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_04: Do you want me to ask?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_04: Can I ask you questions during it?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_04: Is that okay?
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_04: Can you tell me what you like?
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_04: Can I trust that you will redirect me if you're not feeling what I'm doing?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that will help take you out of that fear performative type of a state and get you more into that.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_04: focusing on the communication between the bodies, right?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's what that's about.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's such good advice.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_04: I did that at Hedo when I was playing with Nikki, the magician's wife, and...
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_04: There was an orgy happening.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_04: There was so much commotion going on.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_04: So many people that I was like, I want to play with you, but I don't want to play with you here because I'm not going to be able to hear you.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not going to be able, I'm not going to figure you out in one night, but I want to be able to tune in.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so can you come back to my room with me?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_04: And she was like, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like I would love to do that.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_04: And so that gave me the confidence to really explore and play.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I was able to communicate with her body, really listen to all her moans and her sounds and the way that her breath changed and be able to focus on how her pussy was changing to know like, okay, I'm doing the right shit here.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_04: Keep going.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is the key, I think, to eating pussy well is that it's about tuning in.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: The subtleties of the changes are so minute.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I say you can't think about it.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to do it.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: But that's also...
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: For you, Vee, maybe.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, the thing that I wasn't understanding about eating pussy and why it's pleasurable, my husband will talk to me all the time about why it's so pleasurable, and I just wasn't getting it because it wasn't pleasurable to me to give, even though it's pleasurable for me to give to men.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't getting it.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: But it's an opportunity to enter flow state because you have to be so tuned in it's like time disappears, space disappears.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: All there is are like her tiny breath changes, a little bit of more blood into her lips.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: This like grinding
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_04: of her hips, you know?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's what starts, like I didn't have the mouthwatering reaction until like the last like month basically.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: But like that's what gets me going now.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I even like, I really look forward to every time I can do it now because it's an opportunity to be in flow.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_05: I
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: just wrote that down.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, an opportunity to enter flow state.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still exploring.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to see.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I do also want to ask both of your take on this, what has come up for me.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I did just buy my first strap-on.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: Finally! I love this.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: And So you had mentioned the term above the waist bisexual.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so if it is true that I prefer to make out with women, touch their tits, caress them, have Jay do the work, like going down on them.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on like, what if I just decide that I don't love eating pussy?
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is that okay?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Number one.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: And number two, is it a cop out to be like, I mean, I do enjoy pleasuring women.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so a thought that I've had around like getting around the going down on women is like, I can, I can fuck them with a strap on and use toys.
• 1:04:16
  UNKNOWN: Yeah.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think, look, at the end of the day, whatever is going to keep you present and in the space and enjoying is absolutely fine with me.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_04: So if you never want to lick my pussy, that's fine.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: Just state that maybe at the beginning so that I know that there's nothing wrong with me.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because women will instantly go to something's wrong with me because they're not doing this.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so, like I said, fears, desires, and boundaries would really help that.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_04: And you can go into any play experience and just be like, hey, I really love playing with women, but I'm not so crazy about licking pussy, but I will do everything else to you.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a favorite toy that you like to be used to, you know, you like someone else to use on you?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_04: That would make me feel more excited because then I can think about and fantasize about all the other things we can do together.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a unique experience in and of itself.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's not often in group situations, say it's a foursome, two girls, two guys, that really two girls are probably using toys on each other.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_04: So that could be exciting because normally it's just mouths and dicks because you have real dicks there.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_04: Why would you pull out a dildo, right?
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_04: But in that space, now you have the permission to and preference to.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's great.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: I just think you just need to communicate around it.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think absolutely it's okay.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's a spectrum for a reason.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, people are going to fall in different parts of it.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: And complete integrity to me means never doing something you don't want to do.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: We don't like it when other people make us do things that we don't want to do.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: We shouldn't do that to ourselves.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_02: And like, To me, that's how I end up in situations where like I betrayed myself, I betrayed my body and now I have to do repair work around it.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: So like, I would certainly never want you to do something that you didn't want to do.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if it were me, I would phrase it as like, I have my own things I need to work through about eating pussy rather than like, I'm not crazy about it or I don't like it because that can almost feed into like whatever fear she has about not liking her own pussy rather just like, I have my own work to do or I have my own insecurities about it.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then...
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're going
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: to like strapping women.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: strapping
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: women.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: crazy.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: I say men can come in two minutes, but when I'm strapping a woman, I can come really fast.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard for me to focus on her pleasure because I'm just so aroused.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm certainly going to orgasm while I'm doing it.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: I feel powerful.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: I love watching how her body shakes, whether it's her boobs or her ass.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're so close to her face.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: Ordinarily, if I'm eating pussy, I have my little eyes And like some women like eye contact, some don't, you know, but like the visual is just totally different than when you're like standing over a woman or on your knees around a woman.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's, it's, it's incredible.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that I can't feel it.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like there's these weird things, you know, like if someone like loses a hand and then like, you know, they can do prosthetics and like the person loses, will feel like they're feeling the hand, like the mechanical hand.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't mean to put myself in those people's positions, but it does feel like I can feel the dick.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know that it's not my dick, but I feel like I can feel it.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_04: Liv, I'm with you.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I strap because I love the power between my legs.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I can feel it penetrating them when I look at them.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's like I'm imagining it and maybe I'm energetically imagining that it's mine and I'm putting it there.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I feel the same exact way as you do.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_04: You literally took all the words out of my mouth, the way that they shake, the difference angles that it's penetrative.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that it really taps into like my masculine side, which is like the primal, like, I just want to fuck like, yes, take my cock.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like this is, this is so hot.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_04: So, and B, what is it for you?
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's like, yeah, I'm going to use a strap on on you.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what you guys just said.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think the visuals are just so incredible.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: Women and pleasure and women's bodies are just, stunning like we are so lucky to have these gorgeous curves like just uh that waist like with the grab the waist grabbing the hips right below the waist oh my god it's so beautiful yeah i wanted to just circle back because something's been playing on my mind that you said live is like unlearning shame around your own pussy.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so now that's gonna be something I'm reflecting on is like, I have my own things around eating pussy, like kind of communicating in that way.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so the things that I have around eating pussy is it shame around my own vulva and my own smell.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely have worked through so much of that.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: Elle and I were just reflecting on like how far I've come with squirting.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm like, yeah, squirting.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's so cool to observe growth around my own relationship with smells, juices, and like just these natural things in our bodies.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe there's just more work that I need to do around that because I obviously do love pleasuring women.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just– I don't know.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_04: observation.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I am very curious to watch this journey because if you work through– like when you were first talking about squirting, it was very– The words come to mind is like repulsive.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like you rejected it.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_04: You were like, no.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_04: I was disgusted.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_04: You were like visibly disgusted.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so you're not that way with a pussy, like licking a pussy.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_04: So your chances are looking really good.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_04: So stay tuned, everybody.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_04: We're going to see how
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: this unravels.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Liv, I feel like we could talk forever, but I literally just noticed how long we've been talking.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like, unfortunately, Fortunately, we do need to wrap this up.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to ask, what is a final nugget that you would love to leave our listeners with?
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: What comes
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: to me
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: right now is to remember that thoughts, emotions, energies, these things are contagious.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: They're often gifted and inherited.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's an opportunity to question what's coming up in us.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not always ours.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_02: we can learn it, we can unlearn it, and we can also take responsibility for what we're passing on.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: So just remember, not everything the brain is saying is true.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Get curious.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_04: Go deeper.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_04: Liv, how can our listeners find your work, learn more about you?
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_04: Can you share some information?
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram at livelove__inc, I-N-C, and that will have a link to my blog, honeyahhh.com, and also my link to Temptation Cruises and the work that I do there.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I just joined Wonderland, so I'll be building out a space on there with writing, and I'm always interested in...
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: new ideas or topics that I can cover for folks.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: So feel free to send me a DM on Instagram or find me on Wonderland and shoot me content ideas that you'd like to hear me talk about.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And thanks so much for having me, y'all.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for this enlightening conversation.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_04: I foresee having you back.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're just such our vibe.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I could truly talk to you for like two more hours.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, my gosh.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_04: V, when I met her in Jamaica, it was within like 10 minutes.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, you're coming on our podcast.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Have you heard it?
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my God.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Misha, for kind of like– vouching for us and talking to you.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's really special what y'all are creating here.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I see tremendous success, like that you're speaking from your own experience.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like even the listening that I did this past week, like V you would say something about like how you like, like doing a certain type of play.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, dang, like I also like that, you know?
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, all of a sudden you have a friend for like crazy thoughts in your head that you might like push out.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of a sudden it's like, Oh no, someone else is validating my experience.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that you guys are coming here.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So honestly, I think really is important for the space.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so grateful that you had me here and I'd love to come back.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just really happy to be connected and be friends.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we'll have you back.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody, thank you for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next episode.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_04: Bye.