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Debating License Plate Readers · West Insider

0:12
SPEAKER_00: As your assistant.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: I have to object.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Um that's gonna make the cold open.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Acting managing editor.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Laura Brown.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: That's how you need to introduce me today, please.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'll do.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: Mr.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Weber.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'll do.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Probably.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: Let's see.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: Let's see where it ends up.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: All right.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the West and Mid Rivers Insider Podcast.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: My name is Tim Weber, and today I am joined by managing editor Dan Fox.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: Hey Tim.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: And assistant to the managing editor.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Laura Brown.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Hello, it's nice to be here with you today, Tim.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes, the whole backstory to that.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: Later, but uh call me young lady.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Nothing announced in this uh in this podcast is enforceable through HR law.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Crossed that line too many times.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: That's a disclaimer, I think, that we put at the beginning of every uh uh podcast.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: And um and it's important to um to to be specific about that because you know currently there's flock cameras all over that are just tracking everywhere we go and and uh uh potentially everything mean I say to staff members.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: Or something like that.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: So flock cameras is uh is is topic one today.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh the governor just uh passed an executive order, signed an executive order, um uh discussing the use of flock cameras in Missouri.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: Tell us about it, please.
2:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so the executive order instructs the um uh the the legislature to come up with um safeguards for these automated license plate readers, uh including flock uh safety cameras, but not limited to.
2:30
SPEAKER_03: Um there's been a lot of discussion uh in uh St.
2:35
SPEAKER_03: Louis County and St.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: Charles County about the use of these.
2:38
SPEAKER_03: Uh I mean everywhere's been talking about that as sort of a topic de jure right now.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, people have concerns about uh privacy, access to the data, and um so the uh the executive order uh uh like I said, it directs the General Assembly to come up with a statutory uh framework uh in lieu of that uh until uh it's done, that work is done.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh the um the executive order requires most license plate and vehicle data to be deleted within 30 days, uh prevents vendors from selling, sharing, or commercializing Missouri data, limiting this LPR technology to legitimate criminal justice cases.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: Um and I think most interesting, uh prohibiting the integration of artificial intelligence facial recognition technology and ALPR systems.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: Um recognition.
3:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Recognology.
3:38
SPEAKER_03: So and um So yeah, it's it's interesting to see the governor come out and put this executive order uh forward just given the discussion that's been happening.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, most recently in St.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Charles County, that police department uh ended their contract with flock cameras.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: They put trash bags over them because they discovered one of their employees, not a police officer or civilian employee, was doing what did they call the searches, like unauthorized.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Unauthorized searches.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: And so that that has kind of set this off.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Um and then St.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Louis County police have said they're um limiting access to the data for now until they could put more safeguards in place for people's data.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: And I I I didn't write the story, Elizabeth Carino did, but I started doing some research on this and I had asked St.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: Louis County police how many flock cameras they had, and they they actually only have one.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Um the rest of their cameras are through a different company.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think when you do a search in West County, um most of those cameras I suppose belong to HOA's, you know, subdivisions, uh parking lots for shopping centers.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Um and I just wonder who's supervising the data on that, or who's babysitting the data on that or protecting the data on that.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: Um so so let's so let's take a half a step back here and and talk about what these things are.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: So uh so everybody talks about flock cameras, well that's a brand name, right?
5:16
SPEAKER_02: I think they were the first ones out there.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: So that's why people call them all flock cameras, but there are different brands.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: So these are um uh automated license plate readers, right is is what they're called.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: So so they're they're cameras uh that focus in on license plates in theory.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: Vehicle make it.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: And they're always recording.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: And they're yep, recording 24-7 um and and storing the video somewhere.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: Who owns them?
5:48
SPEAKER_01: The the person who has the contract.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: So it could be uh governmental agency or it could be a subdivision HOA.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so the the who owns the actual cameras, it it's flying.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: They're not gonna have to, yeah.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they usually have contracts.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:04
SPEAKER_03: Um and then whoever the the organization is, they get access to the data.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: They can choose who has access to the data.
6:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they can they can open access or restrict it, I think.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: And I know the the police don't like to say how long the data is stored because they feel like it would tip off criminals.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: And they are I I kind of like the idea of police having them because they have um solved a lot of crimes that start in St.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: Louis County or St.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Louis City and end up all the way in St.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: Charles County.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: And so they they do have their use and their purpose.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Um but on the flip side of that, if someone does have bad intentions, they you know, I think of stalking, um tracking someone's movements, and it it's it's a it's a tricky line there.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Um if a car is stolen, they could put out they can so a lot of these HOAs will give police access to their cameras.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: So when they need to look for some like a vehicle, they can do that.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: But they have to put in the exact um like description of what they're looking for.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: And because supposedly then it only gives you that data.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell But it's not a subpoena.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: A subpoena.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: The search?
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Um I guess not, because they're investigating an application.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: Can I see every car that drove through this neighborhood?
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Because I g I guess there have been instances where the wrong vehicle is flagged and mistaken identity.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: And and I I don't know.
7:38
SPEAKER_03: I think the interesting part of the discussion to me is is the the time element of it.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: Why why are we seeing this upsurge in the topic like now?
7:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: So apparently Flock had um AI.
7:54
SPEAKER_03: That's my guess, is it's it coincides with the AI uh discussion.
7:59
SPEAKER_03: Explain which is why the governor's the last line of the governor's thing saying you know AI facial recognition integration is I think putting controls on it.
8:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, because that's the next logical step, right?
8:13
SPEAKER_03: If you're if you're trying to make a sophisticated product to catch criminals, like you're just gonna upscale it and use AI to to correlate details and you know, fill in gaps and that sort of thing.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I mean I think if the data exists out there and is accessible, I I I think I think that's literally what's kind of fueling it right now, is is um humans acting on it as one thing, AI acting on it is another.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: Um and the world's about to get a lot better at hacking stuff.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: So so my so my guess is that's that's kind of part of it.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: And and and all of it just feels like like overreach.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: So Big Brother.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: So my understanding is that in um St.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Louis City, St.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: Louis County, St.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Charles County, each one of those entities has hundreds of camera or access to hundreds of of cameras.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Um what does Keyhoe's what does Governor Keyhoe's executive order change about how those cameras are operated?
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Is is it is it mostly the time you know, is it is it mostly around data collection?
9:29
SPEAKER_02: And then then, you know, I know that's the same.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I know there are restrictions making sure that facial recognition is not integrated.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Um requiring data to be permanently deleted within 30 days.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: Um on Flox website, they they set the deletion timeline at 30 days, where I think agencies have an option to make it shorter or longer.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: Um some think they should only hold it for a week.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Um you can make it.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: 30 days seems like a lot.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Um it says prohibiting vendors from selling, sharing, or commercializing Missouri-generated data.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: And that's interesting.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what sort of data the cameras could sell, maybe what kind of cars people in Missouri drive.
10:17
SPEAKER_03: Well, if you know this person owns X car and they visit, you know, Quick Trip five times a week, you know, uh how long before we start getting ads, you know, in our Facebook feeds about you know about QuickTrip.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: So if I'm the HOA, just to pick on HOAs for a second, um who has this camera, can I access it at all times?
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Um they can choose.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: It's a security camera, basically, is is is the idea.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: As far as I know, um yes, they can choose who has access to that data.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think St.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Charles County put into place, I'm not sure if St.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Louis County did too, that two people have to do a search.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: One individual cannot do a search on their own.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think or for any camera, maybe.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Just because I guess that's more accountability that you know you have someone else sitting with you doing a search.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Um one of the governor's points says limiting the use of the technology to legitimate criminal justice and life-saving purposes.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: So that almost sounds like maybe private citizens can't own them or you know, HOAs.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, but if I'm Deerberg, I mean so so if I'm Dearburgs and you're pulling onto my parking lot, chances are you're on a camera.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Right?
11:44
SPEAKER_02: It's it's for insurance.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: You mean a regular security camera.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: Um which I'm not sure how these differentiate from regular security cameras.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Um I guess maybe it's the what they can do with the data that they get.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if I'm a wall-mounted security camera.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Um they could just see what they see, but I think uh with these license plate readers, they can then go into other computer programs and run the plates and find out who they are.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Because they're a connected network.
12:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's searchable.
12:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh is I think what it comes down to.
12:20
SPEAKER_03: Whereas if it's a you know, C C T V, you're you're you're in your own network and that's you know, that's that's that.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: I guess if you see a car, if you see somebody breaking into cars and then they get into another car and drive off and you get their license plate, you call the police and you say, This is the license plate, here's the description of the car.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: Um rather than the camera being able to tell you all of that automatically.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: And at the store I'm on private property.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: The HOA less so yeah, the HOA stuff gets a little murky.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: Driving down Highway 40, not at all.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: So um so so it's an interesting concept.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: So um I I I have the impression um that this has become the one issue where the left and right is on the same page and everybody hates flock cameras.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: Is that you guys get the same read?
13:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh that's my feeling, yeah.
13:16
SPEAKER_03: I I I when I saw Governor Kehoe's executive order, my first reaction was like, oh, this is something everyone's gonna like.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: So this is pretty universal, you know, apart from the the companies that you know that that provide these services.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: When I see the the data of all the crimes that are solved or prevented, or it it seems like they have a useful purpose.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: So if there could be a way I I I think it's um I don't think you can question that they have a useful purpose.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Um I think the question is at what cost?
13:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: So so if every six blocks you pulled over every single car and searched them, you would solve a lot more crime.
13:57
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Um you think there's that much crime going on?
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Well I don't give them I guess it depends on where you are.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I I don't know if that's a description of how much crime is going on, but there'd be a lot less.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: You know.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: If we lived in a police station.
14:15
SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah.
14:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if if uh the punishments for any crime were three times as severe, there'd be, you know, a lot less crime.
14:22
SPEAKER_03: But is that the country we want to live in?
14:24
SPEAKER_03: You know, do we want to live in a country where you know you know you're always you know being watched on on camera.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: And and you know, what are your how far do your constitutional rights to you know to privacy?
14:35
SPEAKER_03: Privacy.
14:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:36
SPEAKER_03: How far do they go?
14:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, and and and just flat out a legal search.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that to me, that's what this is, unless unless the argument is that your license plate is not public.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: Um uh protected on um as as a as a search.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: But but but to me, to be able to plug into a computer system that can follow my license plate across three counties is searching.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: Um Yeah, well even even with in the you know, just like opening my glove box without asking permission, right?
15:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:09
SPEAKER_03: Um it's posting identify or it's using identifiable information that is gathered, you know, of a private citizen.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, and and you police need to have a reasonable suspicion to to conduct a search.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: Like you can't just, you know, they can't just pull you over for no reason.
15:30
SPEAKER_03: Right.
15:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Um that being said, um I sort of feel like we're always on camera right now.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: Any like at some level I've given up.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: I've I've um I've ceded that expectation of privacy to the assumption that I'm on somebody's ring doorbell camera at all times, right?
15:54
SPEAKER_03: Well you you're carrying a wiretap around in your off in your pocket, you know.
15:57
SPEAKER_03: Siri's always listening, uh, you know, so it's I I agree with you.
16:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, at a certain level, like the right to privacy has been, you know, waived by society at large.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: Um ring doorbells is another good example.
16:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, you're anytime you go for a walk, you're setting off everyone's ring doorbell in the neighborhood.
16:16
SPEAKER_03: You know, someone could, you know, if they collected them all, they'll just track you one to one to the other.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: But right.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: And then establish a pattern that every afternoon you take for a walk.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Have you guys been planning something?
16:34
SPEAKER_03: Just for example.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Just for example.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah.
16:40
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean I like I don't I don't I don't like the idea of always always being, you know, being on camera, being recorded.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: At the same time, I want to know who's at my door before I open it.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean we lived for thousands of years without knowing who was at the door.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: And just open the door and and see who's there.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: You know, like I don't know.
16:58
SPEAKER_03: I think too much information can be.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I think I saw uh I don't know if it was a meme or something where before or decades ago, when your doorbell rang, you were excited and you wanted to see who was there.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And now it's like hide, turn off all the lights and pretend like you're not home.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Unless you've ordered something, you know.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: And who wants to go answer the door?
17:19
SPEAKER_01: I would say I actually use my my camera more when I'm not home than when I am home.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, just because I want to know who's there.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: And it's gives peace of mind.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: Uh I again with that sort of thing, you know, I I think I argue that it's an unnecessary peace of mind.
17:36
SPEAKER_03: Like you don't, you know, you don't need to know who you know, the some roofing guy that just walked by to try to sell you a new roof, you know, and just knocks on your door and leaves.
17:45
SPEAKER_03: Like you don't need to know.
17:46
SPEAKER_03: I need to know.
17:46
SPEAKER_03: I need to know everything.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: You think you do, but you don't.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: It just feels like to me, I guess, that there is this recurring pattern that we're that we're seeing right now with stuff like this, right?
17:58
SPEAKER_02: Where it's it's um let's start building data centers.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Let's stop and figure out how we should do that.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Right?
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Let's add cameras.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Now that they're all out there, let's pause and talk about how they should actually be used.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: Right?
18:13
SPEAKER_02: Let's build AI.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Oh, maybe, maybe we should talk about how it's gonna be used.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's it's this uh uh the the the old the old tech saying of move fast and break things, it's like it feels like we're breaking some pretty important things right now.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: And right and we might want to be a little more a little more careful than that.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: And I I'm I'm I'm somewhat surprised that that's my position, to be honest with you.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I'm I'm I'm surprised I'm not sitting here going, if you don't want the cops looking at your camera, but don't break any laws.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: Right?
18:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm I'm shocked at myself.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: Full of surprises.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: That that that's not where I'm at.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm shocked that I'm not a full speed ahead AI guy, right?
19:01
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm shocked that I'm now kind of sitting there going, hey, we might want to take a second.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Right, think about something.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: This feels like it's getting real and and you know, on on data centers, um, same thing.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think everything's just falling into this really weird, you know, worst case scenario, you know, uh news cycle on on everything, and it's forcing uh odd moratoriums on things and and and other stuff like that.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's it's we're it's like we're trying to play catch up to the world we live in.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: Well at some level is how we're gonna do that.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Without falling behind the rest of the world.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's kind of I think driving it too that we don't want to.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: That's the AR.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: That's the AI argument for sure.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, don't worry about other countries.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: We're way behind China on surveilling our citizens.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Do we want to catch up?
19:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: Well, and how much of that, Tim, is the the the you know the dichotomy of private enterprise and government and the speed at which both of those, you know, both of those move.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: Because government is, you know, historically quite slow to do stuff.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: And and you know, people who are out there looking to make money, you know, they want to move fast and and and recoup their investments.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, I mean those those two things are are are at some level in opposition, but they always have been, and we've figured it out.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: We're not letting private companies just go build nuclear reactors, right?
20:38
SPEAKER_02: We figured out how to uh smartly regulate that.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Now, that also meant that we don't build nearly enough nuclear reactors, right?
20:45
SPEAKER_02: So so there's there's your there's your counter argument to it, but um uh but it is sort of the job of government to balance the safety uh of the citizens versus the needs of private entities.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell Sure, yeah.
21:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just think that's why you're seeing I mean at least that the pattern is is understandable of something happens, new technology, and then you know, years later the government finally wakes up and realizes they need to put some restrictions on it.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: The one place it's not happening, which is interesting to me, uh, is um driverless cars.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh they're really they're starting with regulation on that and regulating it pretty hard.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Um so the rollout's very, very slow.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: Um on those autonomous vehicles.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Um which is which is which is interesting.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: Um that that that's the one thing where I think we tried to learn.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Although it's possible we learned lessons from, you know, prior to drive those cars from you know, from from the Uber of it all or the uh uh or the scooter companies that used to exist, you know, where you can rent a scooter and Apparently just never came back.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: They don't exist anymore?
22:04
SPEAKER_02: So they they they they still exist some places.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is interesting.
22:17
SPEAKER_03: Oh oops.
22:19
SPEAKER_03: That's not where a scooter goes.
22:30
SPEAKER_03: I you know I I don't see I don't see them going away completely.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh I I see people probably pivoting towards the you know the brands that don't have the recognition uh that that the that that flock does.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: Um and then you know like police are still gonna want to do that.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean that's kind of weird to me that Flock itself has a brand problem, but um uh but that's you know it it's just a piece of equipment.
22:55
SPEAKER_03: So like you said, it's just you know it's the name, you know.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: It's it's the name that people associate with the technology.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: It's not necessarily, you know, a uh uh uh mark against the the product they serve.
23:09
SPEAKER_03: It's just you know it's like the iPhone or you know, or Nintendo, you know.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Mom's saying my Xbox is Nintendo, all she knows is just the one brand.
23:16
SPEAKER_03: So just a catch-all.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: I I I I I think in my mind I'd probably end up being okay with them so long as we come up with um uh uh a set timeline of how long they hold the data.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: And and and some sort of system to prove to me that you've deleted the data and that it hasn't been accessed.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Like you know, that's that's the that's a lot of data to store for 30 days.
23:42
SPEAKER_03: So it's it should be just an o it should automatically do that.
23:45
SPEAKER_03: Don't worry, we're building more data centers.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: That's why we need them.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: Um store all that.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: All right, different subject.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: Um Okay, let's move on to um uh Missouri's congressional maps.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Um is that the story you were holding up?
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: All right.
24:09
SPEAKER_03: Um uh this is a topic that is not confusing at all.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: No.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: Did not did not cause many headaches for Laura trying to figure it out.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: Every time I would start to write it, I would have to stop because something else happened.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: And then it just voided the other information.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: So I know the least at the table, so let me try and summarize it and you guys tell me where I'm belong.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's let's play that game.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh so sometimes.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: Sometime, or yeah, just on this topic.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh, no questioning life choices again.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh let's start with the shoes, Tim.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Aww.
24:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh Okay.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Missouri Congressional.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: Sometime earlier this year, uh Missouri Republicans got together and said, let's try and gain a seat.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: It was last year.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: Last year.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: Sometime last year, uh Missouri Republicans got together because Trump told them, President Trump told them to.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh and they remapped Missouri's congressional districts, uh, sort of with the express goal of changing our eight Republican, two Democrat state to a nine Republican, one Democrat likely uh voting map.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh most significantly was trying to get rid of the Kansas City areas.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: Emmanuel Cleaver.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh Democratic seat.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh and they did this just by moving maps around so that there were they were more likely to end up with a majority of um of Republican voters in the district.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: That is correct so far.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: So And that was passed in 2025, uh, and they called it the Missouri First.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: It was passed within the legislature.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: Voters had no say in this.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: So our primaries this year were conducted using those 2025 maps.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: I I get can calling it the new map is a little confusing to me because it's not currently like anyway.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Um so so the primaries uh happened.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Happened using those maps.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: Um in August.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh and then, you know, over the last month or so there's been a series of court cases um uh that have resulted in a reversion to the 2022 maps for the general election.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: In November.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: That is all because of the referendum.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: And the Secretary of State Okay, so the signatures for the petition to get the new map on a ballot were turned in, I think, in December.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: And the Secretary of State, who's supposed to certify the signatures to get the referendum on the ballot, um sat on those and did not certify them until after the August primary.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Um and so that that's where a lot of this uh came up as well.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's why the Missouri Supreme Court said the 2025 map was was never legal because the referendum is going on the the ballot.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
27:46
SPEAKER_03: No, but yes.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: And uh No.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: The referendum was supposed to have been on the ballot the whole time?
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Well I thought the referendum so so the referendum on the November ballot being where we asked voters.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Voters have to say yes or no to the 2025 map.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Um I I thought that was I thought that was the cure.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Like I thought that wasn't the same.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: So until You're right, because when the 2025 map was passed, that was challenged um because uh the one the challenging side said that you can only or was trying to argue that uh You can only do it every 10 years.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: You can only do new district lines after a census every 10 years.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Um but the court said, no, you can do the the legislature can do it whenever they want.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Um so then it stood, and then the referendum um signatures that uh forgot where I was going with this.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Do the people of the state of Missouri So Because it came into question and has to be on a ballot and the people, the voters have to approve it, they're saying it was never valid in August.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: So a yes vote will approve the act of the General Assembly entitled House Bill One, which redraws the congression congressional district boundaries, a no vote will leave in place the district boundaries from 2022.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: That's proposition A.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: Is what this is called.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: And what's required for approval?
29:16
SPEAKER_02: Just a simple majority?
29:17
SPEAKER_02: I think so.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Simple majority?
29:19
SPEAKER_03: Uh I believe so, yeah.
29:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
29:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so so yeah, it'll be uh using the 2022 uh the 2022 map to approve, potentially approve the 2025 map on a ballot.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: So it's pretty weird to have primaries under one congressional map and general under another.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: That is I believe it's historically weird.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Um uh that seems troubling.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: But it also seems like it was an engineered problem, right?
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Like like that was that it's that it's gameplay.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, let's let's see if we can't, you know, is is is there a way to steel man the argument that the 2025 map is just the right map?
30:14
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: It's just that it's just a more there's just a more right.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: Can you pull up that map again?
30:19
SPEAKER_01: They're all hinging it on because it was used in the primary, it should be used in the general.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: So which one is that?
30:24
SPEAKER_03: Um so this is the so that's 2022.
30:28
SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, this is 2022.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: This is uh uh first alert for.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: Um they have a very fancy slider map.
30:36
SPEAKER_03: Um so this is this is 2022.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh you can see Kansas City is over here is this big uh green uh Louisiana looking uh shape.
30:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh and then uh and then over here, uh District 2 and 3 are you know remarkably different than District 2 and 3 there.
30:57
SPEAKER_03: And on the 2025, Kansas City has been split up so that uh more uh districts that encumber a larger encompass a larger rural area are also uh taking part of the Kansas City, um the Kansas City uh population.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: And go go go back.
31:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty big change.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: That's yeah, that's that's District 5.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: So okay, so now go forward and show me is now going across half the state.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: Two and three have been changed, and four and I mean everything's been changed basically, but um it's splitting up the Kansas City vote and also changes um uh in our readership area.
31:44
SPEAKER_03: I suppose I should have looked at this before, but wow.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize it was such a big change.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a substantial change, yeah.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: It's it's interesting.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Um so I did talk to uh State Congressman Ben Keithly um in Chesterfield and you know just asked him how how will this affect our readership um when they go to vote in November?
32:05
SPEAKER_01: And he said, you know, in St.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: Louis County nothing will really be different.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: For West County.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: For West St.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Louis County voters, yeah.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: For St.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Charles County voters, there is a small section that are part of Ann Wagner's district that weren't in the primary.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's Bob Onder and is it Bratton?
32:28
SPEAKER_01: What is his first name?
32:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh was it Bill Bratton, right?
32:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: But he's he's from the Kansas City side.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Rick Bratton.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Um Bob Onder is in St.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: Charles County.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: I think the maps affect their districts.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Um it'll just be sure it affects a lot of districts.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they'll still be on the ballot.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: It'll just be you know, their formal former people voting for them.
32:53
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: Um and so Bob Onder and Rick Bratton have filed in federal court to try to get the 2025 map to to stand based on, you know, because that's the map that we had in the primary.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: Um and there was a hearing just a few days ago at the end of last week, and so who knows?
33:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean it it the even the regardless, the uh the proposition A will still be on the ballot, regardless of that.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Proposition A will be on the ballot everywhere, and that's the referendum vote on the map.
33:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: So um so to your question, Tim, is there a steel man of the of the new map?
33:37
SPEAKER_03: Um I mean, I'm sure uh there's a favorable argument in terms of uh making it a more Republican state.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: I I don't know.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: I like I think more Republican state it's already a Republican state.
33:53
SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: I I to me uh playing games is a good way to a good way to put it.
33:59
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't think this is a useful use of our time.
34:02
SPEAKER_03: Um as a state?
34:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as a state.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: I mean why are this?
34:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean it it it's um I mean I as we saw it.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: Make it politically, right?
34:12
SPEAKER_02: It's this is how the sausage is made.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Nobody really wants to see it.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: I wonder when the last time never.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: The last time why we redrew the maps for us.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Probably the last census.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, twenty-two.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean before that.
34:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was it was twenty But were there changes?
34:32
SPEAKER_03: Some, yeah.
34:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh I do not remember what they were, but there there were some changes.
34:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh it changed up how all of our all of our um little uh districts were were chopped up.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: Like our election preview changed from one to the other.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: So Well and this time too, I noticed um when you had me proofing the the St.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Charles County ballot, I was like, yeah, Wagner's not on here.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Where is she?
34:59
SPEAKER_01: And you know, he had to I was like, no, they're using the and I even called the election board to confirm because it confused me.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
35:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was the 2020.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: And and Anne Wagner will be back in our election preview for for the November election.
35:12
SPEAKER_03: So it's uh it's it's interesting.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Um that should be an interesting race too.
35:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: Who's she running against?
35:19
SPEAKER_03: Uh I believe his name is Fred Wellman.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Fred Wellman.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: That'll be one to watch.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I guess just generically looking at this, you know, it it I mean it looks like the two urban centers in Missouri are their own districts, and then there's just you know.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting they didn't change district one much.
35:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I changed it a little bit, but not much.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: Um probably didn't want an uproar.
35:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:53
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
35:54
SPEAKER_03: I mean I'd I'd be shocked if it doesn't come down the line.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: Well I think yeah, I I I think part of the argument was that that there is a there is a uh a genuine belief within the Republican Party that nine to one more accurately represents Am I saying that right?
36:09
SPEAKER_02: Is it nine ten to districts?
36:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh seats or districts?
36:14
SPEAKER_03: Districts.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so seven seven to one.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: There are eight districts.
36:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
36:18
SPEAKER_03: Right.
36:21
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh so seven Republican and one Democrat.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: More accurately refresh reflects the state, is is what you say the argument is.
36:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, it comes down to the argument.
36:32
SPEAKER_03: It's a do we do we govern by geography or do you do we govern by popular, you know, population popular vote, you know?
36:40
SPEAKER_03: And everyone everyone picks a different argument depending on what benefits them at the time.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Well uh Yeah, I think we should govern by our congressional representatives being able to represent us.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: And and I I think it's gonna be really hard to represent the city of Kansas City and half, yeah, half of the middle of rural Missouri.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and some some of the most sparsely populated portions of Missouri.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: That's you know, that's that's that's a tough job.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Um to to to to fairly do the will of the people because those are gonna be in conflict, right?
37:19
SPEAKER_02: So um uh that said, um I don't know, you know, um I I I don't know if there's a completely fair way to do this.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean that map looks weird.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if the intent was to hit a certain number of people within each one of those maps or or how that seven didn't change at all.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Eight didn't really change either.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Um because you know, for forgive, I hope my brother doesn't listen to this, but uh we we we we we have eight congressional districts because of our population, correct?
38:00
SPEAKER_02: That's the more people you have, the more congressional districts you have.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: It's that simple.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: So so at some level, I would think that part of the thinking here is that it represents a certain number of uh people.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: But I wonder if you're gonna be able to do that.
38:17
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's why geographically the city of St.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: Louis is so big.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: That's small because there's so many people square miles because it's a dense population.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: And and it's and it feels like well that's how Kansas City was on the previous map.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, district six up there is look you know, from from the naked eye looks to be the largest.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Six and eight seem to be the biggest, but those are you know the the the northwest and southeast of the state.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: So it's or the whole north of the state, I guess, and then then the southeast of the state, which are which are pretty sparsely populated areas.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Well that almost well I don't I don't know if it's worth talking about, but you know, that's the initiative petition thing that the state legislature was was trying to pass, it failed.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: But saying that instead of a simple majority, the um constitutional amendments should have a majority in each of the eight congressional districts.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it was voted down because it's like no, you know, one vote get or one person gets one vote and you know they're they're all equal.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Just because you live in a more rural place doesn't mean your vote should matter more.
39:26
SPEAKER_03: The system is it has its balance.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: You have the the representatives that are elected via the districts, and then you have um you have the ability to do an initiative petition, which is uh a pure majority.
39:39
SPEAKER_03: So there's like there's some give and take there.
39:42
SPEAKER_03: Um when you start, you know, uh messing with with that process, then you know I mean my my fear is always that it starts swinging you know to one side and that you disenfranchise uh you disenfranchise a group from hat being able to have an impact, and that's how people just check out or get really upset and angry.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: And neither of those things are very good for the process.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: You want people to always feel like they have, you know, feel like they have uh an impact on the system.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Right.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: And in these uh traditionally Republican or Democratic districts, you know, it would be nice if they actually had a challenger that they thought could beat them, and then they might actually, you know, maybe run more of a campaign, maybe you know, talk more to the people, see what they want.
40:29
SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell Or here's something controversial, accomplish something that's useful for the people.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, that wouldn't be Congress.
40:38
SPEAKER_03: Right.
40:38
SPEAKER_03: You're right.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: We have picked some complicated topics today, and guys, we're not done.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: The possibly the most complicated thing uh in the country is the menu at the Cheesecake Factory.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: Um and um and and as we know, there will soon be one of those menus back in St.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: Louis County.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: Boy, that was a terrible segue.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: Um I thought they like cheesecake.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh there's so many different kinds of cheesecake.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Apparently it's a Moby Dick of a menu uh to get through out there.
41:13
SPEAKER_02: So uh Cheesecake Factory is coming to West County Mall in November.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh in November, in November.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Um when Chesterfield Mall uh was demolished.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: The Cheesecake Factory was one of the last remaining businesses.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: They held on until they they really had to shut before the wrecking ball hit.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: That's when they closed.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: Um and a lot of our readers wanted to know if they were gonna open someplace else.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Um they were pretty tight-lipped about it until uh they put out a press release because they're hiring, I think, more than 200 people to staff.
41:52
SPEAKER_03: Those things are beasts.
41:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, everyone's excited.
41:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I've been uh for both our Chesterfield reporter and in the office, I've been I've been uh harping out about this cheesecake factory thing saying it's gonna be the biggest story of the year as soon as we find out where the new one's gonna go.
42:10
SPEAKER_03: Because they've been they they were kind of teasing uh you know, even a couple of years ago that that they want to come back to West County, they want to reopen.
42:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh I knew what they were doing.
42:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, and and you know, and lo and behold, they're back and there's confirming nor denying.
42:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um there's there's huge support for it.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, West County Mall in De Pair, it's you know, so mother of a teenager, that place is always jumping.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: The parking lot's always packed, there's always people walking around, and it's nice to see um teenagers being able to go to the mall and cause trouble there.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Not bad trouble, just good trouble.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: Good trouble, right.
42:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Like we did when we were that age.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, teenagers need malls to go loiter at to, you know, to keep them out of trouble, keep them off the streets.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: It's like daycare.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, as a mom, you can drop off your kid and you know they're gonna be pretty safe, you know, walking around the hallways of West County Mall.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: And to be clear, uh Cheesecake Factory is not uh currently a sponsor of this podcast, nor nor nor uh nor an advertiser.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh but there are spaces of payable.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we do like Cheesecake.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: We do like Cheesecake.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: Also, Flock Camera's not a sponsor of the podcast, but um less likely than Cheesecake Factory.
43:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh so uh so I I think that's gonna wrap us up.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: We have covered uh uh a government potentially spying on its own citizens, uh the naked politics of gerrymandering and Snickers barred cheesecake or something like that.
43:51
SPEAKER_02: Is that a good one?
43:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they have pigs in a blanket there too.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Dan's on the menu.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm thinking of my stomach now.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: We we we went from the congressional map to the menu.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: To the cheesecake menu.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: Fascinating.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Field trip in November.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so thank you everybody for tuning in yet again.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh we will talk to you next week.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh in the meantime, head over to Midrivers Newsmagazine.com and Westnewsmagazine.com.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: Click on that subscribe button and get the paper delivered for free.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Talk soon.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: Bye.