Latest / The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness / Beyond Cognitive Rigidity | Scott and LaRae Wright's Journey to Authentic Connection revisited

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Beyond Cognitive Rigidity | Scott and LaRae Wright's Journey to Authentic Connection revisited · The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Observatory Podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: With your hosts, Scott and LaRae Wright.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Join us each week as we explore living life from
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the inside out. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Rae and I are going to sit down post-sibling reunion
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: from her family. We just got back from spending a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: little bit of time with her siblings and We're going
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: to talk some about that, some of the insights that
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we had, and then we're going to talk about some
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: information that we listen to in a podcast about cognitive rigidity.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: And we invite you to sit back and enjoy this
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: podcast and listen to it. Let us know your feelings
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: about it, and don't forget to like and share this
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: podcast wherever you think people might like it. Welcome back
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to the Observatory Podcast with me and my beautiful bass
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: voice today.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're recovering from a little....
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Illness.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I guess, feeling less than perfect.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, feeling less than perfect. This is the second time
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: in the last month I've had this thing. It's a
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: cold of some kind. Don't know what it is, but
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I just know I haven't felt very good for the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: last several days. We just got back from a trip
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: down to be with some of your siblings. cedar city
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: utah taking a nice trip down there and uh toward
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the end of the trip i started to get sick
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: again i know runny nose and now it's cough and.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I think it's a big call for you to rest
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: i think so so because you've been going pretty solid
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: since the end.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Of august yeah a lot of stuff going on but
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: it was fun to go visit your family.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: It was we um tried to get together once a
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: year as siblings we haven't the last few years, done
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: a very good job at it. But this year, there
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: were three of us that gathered. Everyone else had either
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: schedule conflicts or life that is just getting busy. But
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: it was a lot of fun. It reminds me of
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the saying that we really don't know what we have
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: until we gather with those that our first home was with.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And we tell stories and we laugh and we renew
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: that bond. And it's such an intricate part of our tapestry.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And I just really enjoyed it. We had a lot
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: of fun.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: You know what I thought was different about it? I'm
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: going to have to cough now and again, so bear
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: with me. It was, like you said, only two of
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: your siblings, their husbands. And normally there's more.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're missing three.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Three of you are missing right now. And the dynamic
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: of it was interesting because it allowed us to have,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I think, deeper conversations with each of the two that
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: we were with and their husbands. And when there's six there,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: six couples, the dynamic, it's not that it's less intimate,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: but I think you just don't get to talk to
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: each other as much one-on-one as we did. And we
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: got to talk about all sorts of things that were...
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Insightful for me. I got to, especially with Delaine and Sid,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I got to talk to them more, be with them more,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: see them more. And we were in their home. So
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: their family was all there. We went and visited a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: bunch of their children while we were there. It was
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: really cool.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It was. I think in any gathering that's larger, there's
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: just room then for you to be silent.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: And no one questions that silence because... you're not really missed.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: There's enough to carry on the conversation. But when you're
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: in a smaller group and you choose to be silent,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: it becomes noticeable that you're silent. And so the invitation
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: to participate is just much greater. And it was just interesting.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Like you said, it's not right or wrong. It was
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: just interesting. And it was a really good time. And
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: we had an opportunity to just share with each other
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: what our lives are up to, what we're doing. Interestingly,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: you and I have retired officially. I'm still working, but
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: we've retired. And Nick has retired. So Jackie was the
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: only one among us that hasn't. And she's definitely exploring that.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: She's getting to that age. But it's so interesting how
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: what we focus on shifts.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as you get closer to retirement.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: And you become much more aware and comfortable with where
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: you are in life, the chapter that you're entering. And
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: then as we went around and saw Darlene's children, the
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: ones that live locally, and visited their homes, for me especially,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: since you and I don't have children living with us,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: and your children are grown, we see them on occasion
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: to do things with, but we don't have a day-to-day
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: reminder of time passing. So we sometimes go, was it 2017, 16, 18, 20?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: A year of COVID is like a warp year. But
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: with them, every year is defined because they have children
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and they're coming to another age and the events in
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: their lives are changing.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Not just children, a lot. Because it's children and grandchildren.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: They all live really close.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: And now they have great-grandchildren.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Great-grandchildren.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: And so that definition of their lives makes it much
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: more noticeable, the passing of time.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: And I don't think I had as much of an
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: appreciation for that with them as I do now. Because,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, someone was always there. Right.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: They have several grandchildren living with them. Like I said,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: when we went and saw the children that lived near them,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: their lives are busy and we saw all the children.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: And again, because it was a, such a small group
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: of us, the interaction then with their children and grandchildren
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: was much greater because you can't just kind of blend
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: into the background. You know, you're the one engaging. And
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: so the, it was really beautiful. It was meaningful conversation
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: and it has made.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Me conversations with a lot of her grandkids. Right. And so,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I got to interact with them more and
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: see them more and, experienced them and the dynamics of
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: their families.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Right, especially the two that were living with them. So
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: it has prompted me to really think of all my
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: siblings and their children and just ask myself, you know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: what kind of meaningful interactions. It's similar to the experience
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: we had when we went with Jackie and Nick on
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: the cruise earlier this year. And we had such a
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: more intimate experience with all of her children and grandchildren.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: And really got to know Tice and Landon and Boston
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: and experience them on a day-to-day basis.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was fun.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: So I think there's something to be said about that.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Well, we kind of went down this road just to
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: start off.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: But it's not what we wanted to talk about. It's
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: not where we want to go.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So we're just catching you up on our lives and
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: where we've been and some of the things we've been
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: up to. And as we continue the podcast, we're looking
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: to when Ray and I get together and talk about something,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's just things as we're going through life that
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: pop up. And today was one of those things. I'd
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: had an experience with sharing some information with someone. And
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the response that I got back was one of less
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: than acceptance. And I wasn't expecting it to be accepted.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting it to be seen from my point
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: of view at all. But it was a really neutral
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: topic that we were talking about.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Well, and you didn't really share anything from your perspective.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: You just shared something. A podcast. A podcast we had
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: listened to this morning that we found interesting.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: And let's mention what it was. It was Mel Robbins' podcast. Right.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: And her guest was Dr. Todd Rose.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Dr. Todd Rose.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: And he's written a great book that is getting a
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: lot of buzz about conformity and compliance and And it
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: really prompts the discussion about authenticity and the collective illusion,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: if you would, of what is real and what is
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: really created by the collective, whatever that collective is.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Because we're so connected now with our devices and the internet,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and especially social media, which is what he talks about
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the most. I'd recommend everyone go listen to it. We're
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: not going to rehash the, podcast it was a great
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: podcast though but um as he's talking about those things
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: it shows the influence of how you know we as
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: we get this hive mind kind of thing going on
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and we think that everyone's thinking a certain way when
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: the reality is is the vast majority of people are
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: not thinking that way but social media leans toward.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: That right so his study because he has a think
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: tank called populace and his study has shown that we
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: are more similar than we are different yes And while
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: we may be feeling very divided, that when asked questions individually,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: we still have at our core very strong similarities in
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: what we believe, in what we hold as meaningful. and
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: important in our lives and so from that standpoint it
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: was very inspiring to think that while when we watch
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: the news or we engage in social media we start
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: to feel very divided that perhaps at our core what
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: what we really think in private is And what we
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: want in our lives is more similar.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Right. One of the statistics that he shared on the
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: podcast was that with social media, that 10% of the
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: people on social media share 80% of the content that
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: exists out there. And so 10% of the people who
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: are sharing all the content, it's leaning toward whatever direction
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: they want things from their own personal point of view,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: it to be. And so our perspective is we're witnessing that.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: 80% of the content that we're witnessing, seeing, and experiencing
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: is coming from a very, very small percentage, 10% of
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the people who are on it.
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  Speaker 2: And then what that leads to is the choice to self-silence.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because we become... what the 80% are feeling, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that's just not true.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Right, because we become convinced or we have a perspective
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: that that 10% is the majority.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: And so with your engagement, you had someone that came
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: back very strongly.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And you could have believed that that was the populist
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: opinion of everyone.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: But it's a very... uh, closed perspective of what it,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: what it's all about. And it doesn't mean that that's
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: right or wrong. It just wasn't open. And so I
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: was like, Hmm, when, when I, when someone is, what
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I wanted to know, and I decided to send this through, uh,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: a Google search, actually it was a chat GPT search
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: that when, when someone is unwilling to hear the opinion
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: of someone else and they come from a place of, uh,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: needing to be right.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Or to defend.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Or to defend. What are the reasons for that? And
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: it came back and said, you know, people are this
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and people are that. They can be dogmatic was one
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: of the words that they used.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Closed-minded.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Closed-minded. And they may not feel safe outside of that
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: paradigm and all those things I understand. And then I said,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: is there a word that describes it? Besides dogmatic is
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: another one. But dogmatic is kind of, you know, attached
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to religion, it seems, in my opinion, it feels to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: me like it's attached to more of a religious way
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: of seeing and thinking. Right.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: So you asked it, is there a psychological word? A
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: psychological term. A word that's more around the psyche.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Right. And it gave me this one. And it was
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: cognitive rigidity. And I was like, whoa. I've never heard that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it's been out there. But cognitive rigidity. So
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: in other words, the thinking, cognitive, cognition, is a very
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: rigid way of seeing things, and it has to be
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: seen through a certain lens. So I started to think
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: to myself, what ways do I have some cognitive rigidity
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: in my life? Does that manifest for me in my life?
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Does it manifest for you in your life? How do
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you feel about that?
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I immediately, when you said that, I immediately thought
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: of the work that I do with corporations. And companies,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and even with entrepreneurs, when they start to initiate change,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: and people who struggle with change, they really want things
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: to be very predictable. They want to believe that it
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: can always stay this way, that my work stays this way,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the way I come to work stays this way, the
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: way I do my work, the people I work with,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: everything stays the same because I then, I can predict it,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and I know what that's like. And so as soon
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: as change starts to happen, then people become very rigid.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: They start grasping and wanting to hold on to what's
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: familiar because of their own resistance to change. And I
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: think that's very common with a lot of people.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say. I think it's
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: really an innate human nature to want to feel safe,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to want to feel safe. that things are predictable. It
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel safe that things aren't predictable sometimes until you
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: get willing to accept things as they are. However they
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: are doesn't matter. But even then, it's like you still
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: are going to be disappointed sometimes. Right.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that goes back to, you know, all
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: the way back as to our childhood. You know, we've
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: met people who lived in one place, grew up with
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: family and neighbors and That circle didn't change very much.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: It didn't have a lot of movement in it. And
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: it didn't have a lot of exposure to other beliefs
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: or peoples. And with that, then people grow up with
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a certain perspective or frame that they live in. Then
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: you have other people, like a military family, for example,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: that changes the norm. And children have to make new
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: friends almost every year that they go to school. And
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: they're not seen... the same faces, the same relatives. And
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: so their world is defined by a very different frame,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: and they become more accustomed to change. And change isn't
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: as challenging. It could have challenges for other reasons, but
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: it is more common in their life than what perhaps
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: the first example that I gave. So I immediately thought about, wow,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: that's just really interesting. This feels like, at the core.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Change, change management, our inability or our comfort level with change.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think, you know, the fact that the
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: reason that I became so curious about it was it's
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: like this message that we sent out on this podcast
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: was super neutral, right? It's very much just kind of
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: observing what humanity is doing. It's not trying to make
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: a case for anything or be right about anything. But
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: it is talking about how important it is to be authentic.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: And the person that I had shared it with took
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that word authentic, and every time they mentioned something about it,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: they said just authenticity. If it's just authenticity and it's
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: not this, some other truth that they were attached to,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: then it was kind of discounting what being authentic was.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: And why that is, I'm not sure. I'm sure this
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: person has their reasons for that. But it's being afraid
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: of being authentic, being afraid of being yourself, being afraid
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: of being who you feel that you are within you.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the main broad topics that
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: we're discussing constantly in this day and age right now.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Right, and... you know, it's one of those examples of
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: words matter. And so maybe understanding what authenticity means to
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: that person, it would be a really good question to ask.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Because in the podcast, it defined it very broadly that
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: authenticity is showing up as who you are in that moment.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: It is very much about the present moment. So for example,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: if I grew up one way and I have changed
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: or I don't prescribe to something, but I show up
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: and pretend to be still that way. I'm not being authentic.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: They started off with a great example of Mel who
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: said that for health reasons, she has really cut back
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: on alcohol. And so she went to dinner and she was,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: you know, before she went in, she was thinking, you know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I don't want to have any alcohol tonight. But as
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: soon as someone asked her, oh, do you want to
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: have a drink? She kind of caved and said, sure,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: and then wondered why she couldn't stay in that belief
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: of like, oh, why didn't I just say that, you know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not drinking right now. I've decided to cut back.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Whatever would have been the right answer. But she conformed.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Meaning a social norm or whatever reason.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Right, being a social norm or, you know, just not wanting,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: and we do it for a lot of reasons. We
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: don't want someone else to feel bad. We don't want
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: them to think, you know, whether it's drinking or it's,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: you know, paying the bill or, you know, giving, you know, anything.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: You know, if you think about your life, there's almost
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: daily we come across things that we think, oh, I
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: just gave in and did that, even though I either
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: didn't want to or I don't believe in it. but
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: it's just kind of keeping the peace, right? Not stirring
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the pot. And this podcast really talked about the importance
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: of authenticity because it brings us to our present self
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: all the time with one another.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Right. So going back again to cognitive rigidity, I was
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: trying to see where are the places in my life
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: where I am resistant? I have cognitive rigidity or less
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: of a willingness to change and my views about things
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and it's it's I've talked about this on other podcasts
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: about not making the thing the thing in whatever way
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: that that comes up each person has things that they're
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: drawn to and things that that tend to resonate with
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: them and that may be your religion or It may
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: be your way of seeing the world. It may be
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: things that you think about your political party. Lots of
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: different ways for us to see that and become cognitively
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: rigid about the way we see things because we feel
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: like that's the direction that things need to go. And
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I think that's okay as long as you feel like
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: that's the way things need to go for you and
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: not everyone. That's when we start to run into problems
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: is when you think that that's the way it needs
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: to go for everyone. Right.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Well, and it was even small things this weekend with
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: my siblings. I was showing, my sister had asked if
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I would make sourdough bread for the, she was the
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: only one that didn't make it. And so I said, sure.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And I had my recipe and I was interacting with
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Jackie because she makes sourdough bread. You had your start.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I had my starter and my scale. And so I'm
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: explaining it all based on the rules.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Soup and bread.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: You know, soup and bread. But I'm still explaining it
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: based on this many grams and this and that. And
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, Jackie, is this similar to what
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: you do? And her answer was very different. She said, oh,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I just kind of eyeball it.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was great.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: And my sister said, oh, you know, kind of how
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: do you do that? Because it was becoming a little overwhelming.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: For my older sister to have like the scale and
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: kind of my rules approach to it. And she's like, oh,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to be able to
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: do this. And then to have this really other extreme
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: end of it where my sister Jackie said, yeah, I
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: make it all the time and I just kind of
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: eyeball it. And so now the truth, it lies somewhere
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: between me and my recipe and Jackie and her ability
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: to eyeball it. And both of us make bread that
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: turn out Amazing and beautiful. So the result is not different.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: It's the way we're approaching it. And I started to
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: notice that I needed permission to step away from the recipe.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Step away from the recipe.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I love that. And so that's cognitive rigidity, right?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Because here I am believing that the only way I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: can have it turn out right is is by following
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the recipe. But yet here's another living example of someone
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: who eyeballs it and it turns out right all the time.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So the approach is not, both approaches work.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just having an epiphany again. You know, as you're talking,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just sitting here and I'm like, well, this is
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: what happens to me in music because there are a
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: lot of people who are, in that rigid space of
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: how they play music and how it shows up and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: it needs to be this and it needs to be perfect.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm pretty much the polar opposite of that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, and it doesn't make anyone wrong. What
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: happened is that kind of kept being the theme. We
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: then talked about going through things, you know, like, okay,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: we're all trying to downsize, downscale, clean out closets and garages.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And so we were talking about the need to go
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: through things. before things are donated or given away or
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: thrown away. And there was another theme there. And I said,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I have a really hard time. Things that are still
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: very useful, I have a super hard time giving them
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: away without first checking with everyone else in my family
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: to see if someone in the family needs it. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: that puts a lot of pressure on me to do that. Because,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I, it takes coordination, it takes effort, if
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: people aren't getting back to me, and I need to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: get it done. And I said, I just really need
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: permission to say, if anyone in the family needed anything,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: that let me know. And I can just give this
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: stuff away. But again, there was that permission thing. And
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: my sister Jackie had the same thing. She said, you know,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: it's hard for her to give things away. She wants
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: to give it to someone she knows is going to
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: use it and care for it. And even though she
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't use it still. So it was really fascinating. And again,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: all of this is, all of these are examples of
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: that cognitive rigidity, right? Yeah. That we're rigid in the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: way we're thinking, which is limiting us. And it's also
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: bringing pain to us. Now it's not pain like torture
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: or trauma, but it, it limits just how easy we
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: move through the world on a day to day basis.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: You know what I found fascinating is that, um, You
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: and Jackie, your sister Jackie, are both kind of in
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: that same place where you want to be able to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: go through everything before you give it all away. And
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: her husband, Nick, and I are in the same place
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: where we're ready to back a truck up, put everything
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: in it, and take it away.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: But there could be one thing that is meaningful.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I understand the reasoning. But then there's Delene and Sid, Delene,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: your sister, who she's with. Me and Nick on that.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And Sid is the other one. Now Sid is the
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: one that's doing it like you. He wants to go
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: through everything. Right.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: He doesn't want to lose a treasure.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Right. So this isn't necessarily a family thing. No. It
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: was a learned behavior that all your sisters are this way.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: And your brother. But it's each individual sees it that way.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting because it seems to be one or
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the other.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: So coming full circle then is, It has nothing to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: do with how we live our lives, our belief structure.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It's more the way you show up, right?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: And so for us showing up in our daily lives,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: daily chores, daily tasks, or how you show up in music,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: like you said. So that cognitive rigidity can really prevent
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: you from showing up And experiencing more joy. Openness. Openness,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: receptivity to others, curiosity to others.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Joy.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I said that from the beginning, right? Joy. And
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: just what does that mean?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Being okay with it not showing up the way you
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: expect it to.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Right, because when I was making the sourdough bread, and
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Jackie was like, well, just put a little more water
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: in it. My hands almost started to shake. To imagine,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: because I thought, what if I ruin the starter and
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: then we ruin the bread and we're having this expectation
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: of bread with soup for dinner?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: And so all of that had like a downward... The story,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: the spiral. A downward impact, right? So now think of something,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: here's a person in life that has that downward spiral about, well,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: this is why I do this so that at the
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: end of my life, I have this. And then that
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: guarantees this or that or this. So we all have
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: that sort of downstream impact in our lives if what
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I'm doing right now doesn't stay as I want it to.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the unknown. And that's the degree
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: of safety that comes in our story that we say
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: this is life. And then when change comes, all of
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: that starts to become That's the degree of unknown. It
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: starts to shift. And people are, you know, it's like, well,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I can make bread without a recipe.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: You know, Jackie, I think I could blindfold her and
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: she probably could make bread. Now there's a part of
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: me that would love to have that level of intuition
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: and trust myself just to do that. And I thought,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start trying that. eyeballing it and seeing
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: and just that's a next step for me to be
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: liberated to that level.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Well it's interesting as we're talking about this because you
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: know you go back to the teachings of buddhism and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: eastern philosophies and they talk about how we create our
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: own suffering this is how we do.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: It right and i would never think making bread makes
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: me suffer but like i said making it Someone else's
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: way other than my own might.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: If you're feeling anxious, are you suffering?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I said. And yet at the same time,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: her way feels so liberating, right? Like, oh, all I
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: need are just these three ingredients. I don't need a scale.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I don't need a measuring cup. In fact, I loved
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: how Sid, my brother-in-law, said his mother had this yellow cup.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Do you remember this story?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: No.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: He said she had this yellow cup in the cupboard,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: and it was the only cup she used for baking.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: So whether the recipe was a cup, a half a cup, two-thirds, three-fourths,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: she had one cup.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: She was always using the same one.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: And she was always using the same one, estimating those measurements. Wow.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, her daughter goes to
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Home Ec and comes home, and now they've got to
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: buy like all these tools this set of measuring cups
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: of cups now there's five cups instead of lenore's one
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: cup and then there's these five spoons and he said
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: you know she took out of the her kitchen drawer
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: and what the spoon they ate with was the teaspoon
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: and the bigger spoon you know so all of a
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: sudden Different definitions were making things more cognitive. It was
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: building rigidity. And maybe this is part of the illusion.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe. Absolutely.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: That all of a sudden it has to be more
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: black and white. It has to be more defined. It
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: has to be more sure and less absolute versus estimated.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: But the one cup won't work anymore.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: It doesn't feel safe for some of us when it's not.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: spelled out and for others of us it feels as
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the word you used was liberating when we can allow
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: ourselves to just be present with what is estimating is
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: okay guessing is okay non-perfection is okay the playing of
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: music which is where I have gone in a way
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: that's Not perfect. Absolutely not perfect.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's because you're using more completely your
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: other senses. I think, you know, Jackie, I'm using my
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: mind when I'm following a recipe. Jackie's using her touch.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: She's feeling the consistency in the dough. She's looking at it.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: She's using sight. The last thing she's using is her mind.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Right. She's using her intuitions.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: She's using her intuition and her other senses. Like I said,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: her touch and her just estimating.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Since we're touching on intuition, let's talk about that for
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: just a second before we close because I think that's
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the voice that we really have to learn to trust
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: more and listen to more. And we don't see the
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: results of listening to our intuition unless we're willing to
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: do it. when we start to do it and listen
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: to our intuition you start to recognize that when you
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: listen to your intuition it doesn't mean you're right all
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the time but it does mean that you're following your
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: feelings and as you learn how to follow your feelings
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: and recognize when it's not coming from your mind and
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: your head and your thinking but coming from some other
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: place in a place where you're trained to be as
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: still and present not in cognitive rigidity but in a
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: very very fluid way of being That when we have
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: intuition or insight as to what we need to do,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: something we need to do in our lives, something in
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: this world of form that we need to accomplish, some task,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: we can feel what it is that we need to
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: do from a place that's different from thinking it or
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: from our mind or from the cognitive way of accomplishing it.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: When we do that, there's a resonance, I feel, that's
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: emanating around us all the time You can call it
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: whatever you want. Spirit. That will help us walk through
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: life the way we were meant to walk through life.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Instead of trying to think it through and figure it out.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Right. And I do think intuition is closer to spirit.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: It's something that is in the body, but not of
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: the body. And then mind is... that thinking cognitive pre,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: you know, prefrontal cortex and.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: All of that, the equation solver and the.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Ego, right? The mechanism of ego that keeps us, that
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: we were gifted when we came into form in order
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: to stay safe. So, you know, we talk, we've talked
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: a lot in other podcasts about bridging those two worlds
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: and that humanity is coming more and more now where
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: we're bridging those even further. Yeah. And, It was interesting.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I was watching a clip this morning about Gary Zukav
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: talking about, you know, when we die, the ego mind
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: dies because the mind stops. But that intuition, that part
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: of spirit goes on. And so when we can tap
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: more actively into that while living, then I think we're
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: living from a different space, whether people call that a
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: higher vibration, it's definitely a different perspective when it comes
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: from our intuition than when we're relying on mind and
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: the physical part of us, the ego part of us
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: that is all part of our physicality, our form that
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: is only for this time. And that part, you know,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: it's just these gentle promptings to say, if I'm going
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: to exercise a muscle today, am I going to exercise
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the muscle of intuition or my skill of intuition, or
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: am I going to go deeper into my mind? And
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: this weekend with my siblings has really been a very
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: gentle call to, again, let go of my thinking and
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: try to live more in my feeling and intuition and
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: more spirit-driven self than my mind self.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love it.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: So maybe I have to start playing music with you, honey.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, why not?
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I'm game. Are you?
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. You know that. All right. So... With that being said,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I think we'll wrap this up. You got something else?
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: No, I just think you should maybe give a prompt
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: for as people listen to this and they go the
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: week of hearing this podcast, give them maybe a challenge
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: for the week of something that they should do after
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: they've listened to this.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I think do what I recognized. Ask that question to yourself.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Where is it in my life that cognitive rigidity comes up?
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Or is it that I am rigid in my cognition,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: in my thinking, where I'm not safe if I'm outside
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: of that? And it can be in anything in your life.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: It can be something at work. It can be something
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: in your belief system. It can be something in your
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: political beliefs.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Your relationships.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Relationships. So many different ways that you can look at it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: And we'd love to hear from you. So drop that
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: in the comments on the podcast. Or reach out to us.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Go on to our social media. You can find us
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: all out there. All the links will be in the podcast.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And let's hear from you. And we'll put links to
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: that podcast from Mel Robbins in here so that you
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: can access that and listen to it. Highly recommended.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, highly recommended.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Really good podcast. Dr. Todd Rose was the guest. Anything else, Bernie?
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: No.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: That's it? All right. So until next time. Bye. If
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: you're enjoying the Observatory Podcast, please consider subscribing, sharing us,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: and if you have time to write a review about
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: something that may have affected your life or helped you
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: in some way, please do so. That helps us to
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: get the word out and get this information out to
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: more and more people so that it can be shared
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: and we can help ripple out this energy that's emanating
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: in the world today. There's been so much separation and
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: we want to find a way to create conversations where
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: we can come together not divide so much as we
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: have been to learn to come together in unity. Thank you.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Observatory Podcast.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: of our future episodes.