Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Happy Hour #74: (Spoiled) Our Flag Means Death

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Happy Hour #74: (Spoiled) Our Flag Means Death · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeartRadio. It's time for
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: another happy hour. As always with these segments, drink responsibly
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: if you choose to do so. I think this one's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: gonna be pretty fun. What are you sitting on, Samantha? So,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: after our last ventures with our cocktails, I decided to
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: keep it simple with my Corona premiere being real summer.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: What about you? Yes? So, so what I have kind
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: of a soo Samantha knows. I'm not gonna go too
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: in depth, but I had a whole chicken. I'll call
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it a fiasco. Well, basically, I got a lot of
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: chicken I have to cook um, and I'm trying to
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: roast the whole chicken, which means I bought all these herbs.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: But it's way too many herbs for a single person,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: even though I'm roasting a whole chicken. So I made
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: like a time rosemarre Gin and Tonic situation. And it's
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: very nice. M hmm. That sounds delightful. It is, and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: it's actually appropriate for what we're talking about today. Uh
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and uh, just heads up, we are talking about this show.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Our flag means death, which means we're not going to
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: spoil it, but we might. So if you really really
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: don't want to spoilers, maybe wait on this one. It's
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: on HBO Max and it's great. Have you seen it all, Samantha, Yes,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: very much, enjoyed it really good, very light m cheeky humor. Yes, yes,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: it's yes. And the reason I was saying this drink
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: is appropriate is that the gin and tonic was kind
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of originally invented as a malaria sure, medicinally, but a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: lot of drinks like that that have sort of the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: alcohol component and then the citrus component were used by
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: um people who are on water for a long periods
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: of times, including pirates. Yeah, to to keep away Scruby,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: they try to find oranges in an episode. They do
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: try to find oranges in an episode of this show, which, okay,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I guess we should break it down in case what
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: we're talking about. Um So. This show was created by
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: David Jenkins and it stars Reese Darby as Steve Bonnet
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and Tako Tit as Edward Teach and Blackbird. Also, I
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: guess um and is loosely based on Bonnet's real life
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: exploits as a pirate during the eighteenth century. It starts
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: with him leaving his wife and kids to go be
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: a pirate and being quite terrible at it. And one
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: of the reasons I wanted to talk about this, which
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I bet a lot of you have seen, is there's
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: been a lot of discussion around this show and queer
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: representation and toxic masculinity. So I honestly, I think we
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: could do a whole episode on this, but we're just
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: gonna kinda during more happy our conversational take right now.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Um So, Steve bon it is kind of the opposite
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of what we've seen as pirates. Largely, he's not very
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: good at it, Like I think one of the first
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: opening scenes, he's trying to get his crew just so
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: a flag, like he's teaching them to so he's trying
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: to give them this space to be creative and artistic. Um.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: He's very all about like supporting each other and being friendly, um,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: and supporting each other and perhaps lesser less typically masculine
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: activities and less typically pirate activities. Uh So, a lot
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: of people have said that this show is a really
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: interesting critique on toxic masculinity, in particular because you see
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of aspects of taskic masculinity,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: not even only through the pirates and through what traditional
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: pirating is, but also to like steeds relationship with his father,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: who always kind of called him weak and really insulted him. Um.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: There's the scene where black Beard is looking through a
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: book and realizes like, oh, this is how people think
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: of me, like a really violent monster, and that's sort
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: of a destabilizing realization for him. Um, and we're gonna
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: come back to that in a minute. You've got black
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Beard's right hand Izzy, who is very like representative of
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: toxic masculinity and specifically perhaps a repressed, closted gay man
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: like a you know priests in that sense of like
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: always talking out about it but secretly is in internalizing
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of homophobia. That was the take I saw
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: on him a lot anyway. Uh. And then you do
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: have this narrative with Steed's wife, who again he kind
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: of just abandoned one night, and you get to see
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: an episode that's largely from her perspective when Steed comes
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: back and she's like so bummed that I came back.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: She's like, I'm doing so much better without you. I've
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: like embraced my artistic side. I've found some real like
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: passionate love, like we were never good together, so that
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: was interesting. And then just him in general, Steed in general,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: trying so hard to fit into this really toxic masculinity
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: world of piracy and doing terribly at it in the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: traditional manner and seeing like his horror at it a lot,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: because he'll take like notes and just be horrified at
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: what's happening. Um, but then like trying to do it
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: in his own way and not giving up these pieces
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: of himself even though he feels like he has to,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: especially when it comes to things like fashion, because he
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: kind of grew up in this haughty world of m
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: aristocrats and all the like passive aggressive rules and all
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: that stuff that he really hated and thought he could
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: fit in there either. Um. But now let's let's talk
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: about gay love because the show has gotten a lot
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of credit, and I would say rightfully so for pushing
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the boundaries of queer representation. And and I mentioned in
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: our recent rerun we did on Queer Rating that I
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: was surprised that it wasn't queer bating. So it turns
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: out there's sort of this arc of what could be
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: read as friendship between Blackbeard and Steve Bonnet. But in
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the end they do have a very sweet kissing scene
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and they admit how much they mean to each other
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and how happy they make each other. And I mean,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: it's one of those things like, now that I know
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: that it's going there, it's very obvious. But that's also
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: how prevalent queer bating is that I wouldn't have been
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: surprised if it hadn't happened, where it's kind of a
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: joke of like, oh, they're like, it's a bromance. Look
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: at this, they're breaking up. That turns out, um, it's
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: it actually wasn't, So that was a nice surprise, but
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: it did make me sad. I mentioned in the episode
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: we did bridget around Dana Scully and the Scully Effect
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: to how many articles I got of people just so
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: desperately searching for representation that they'll find it anywhere, which
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I'll come back to you. But it was really refreshing.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: It was like I just thought it wasn't gonna happen,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: and then it did. And it's very like people, especially
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: um in the particular pretty queer area of my fan
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: fiction corner, people love this show and they always talking
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: about it. So that's nice to see, right, And there
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: are a lot of queer characters, not just them. I
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: have Lucius who's openly gay and I really appreciate him
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: kind of being the outside outsider watching these two and
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: being like, YouTube need to get together, like yeah, yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: And then you have so Steed on his ship has
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: this huge closet and I found a really interesting essay
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: about it, um about you know, it being kind of
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: a literal representation of in the closet, like queer queer
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: people being in the closet. But then also like all
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the different ways queer people can present themselves all ways
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: you can identify and exists because of all the different
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: clothing colors and styles and all of that. Um so
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I thought that was cool. And when Steed shows black
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Beard is closet, black Beard is like fluw mixed by
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: all these options. But it turns out he really likes
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: he likes the fashion style and he wants to experiment
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: with it and try it. And then yeah, as I mentioned,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: there are like kind of two breakup scenes between Steed
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: and black Beard. One is kind of when Lucius it's
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: like that was a good man and you let him
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: go whatever. And that's kind of when black Beard, I think,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: has this moment of wait a minute, I don't think
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I was picking up on this the whole time. And
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: then in the end when they have their more serious
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: breakup and black Beard sort of has a decision between
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: embracing these new parts of his identity he's found that
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: are less toxic, are reverting back to being what everyone
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: thinks he is and what he expects them to be.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: A friend of mine sent me a really interesting gizmoto
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: article about how black Beard could possibly be a sexual
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: character representation, and it's worth threeting if you want to
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: go check it out. There's a couple of good points
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I just want to hit on real quick, otherwise this
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: episodes can be super long. But kind of this idea
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: black Beard has of he has to be sexual as
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: a man because that's the what the world expects and
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: that's how you get respect. So it's clear that he's
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: had a lot of he's had a lot of sex
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: in his life, but whether or not that had any
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: meeting or it's just something he felt like he had
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to do isn't as clear. Um. They also pointed out
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: his wardrobe is primarily the colors of the Ace flag.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So that's interesting, m h. And these are the two
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that really really hit with me is that he has
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to be told Steed was flirting with him, not realizing
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: that he was essentially on a date. So there's a
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: steam where Steed just trying to make him feel better
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and he makes his treasure map and it's like, come on, BlackBerry,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go have this day. And that's Lucy is
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: finally like, oh my gosh, it's happening. Don't you see
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: what this man is doing for you? Uh? And and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: black Beard being like oh and then uh, they're kiss
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: being one of acceptance not of lust at the ends.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: There's several other scenes throughout people have pointed out that
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: are romantic and not sexual necessarily, but there's one where
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: they're like under the moon and Steve says you wear
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: nice things well and they hold on in contact for
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: a while and it's like a moment of acceptance, um,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: which is what a lot of people have said that
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: they feel like it's black Beard coming to accept this
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: queer part of his identity. Um. But yeah, those two things.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: As an a sexual person, I was definitely like, yeah, yeah,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: uh so I highly recommend the article, and then yeah,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: just it was very critically lauded. It was very successful.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I know, it was one of the top streaming shows
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: for a long time and fans loved it. But HBO
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: only just renewed it. It took them quite a long time,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: and there was a lot of conversation about why that
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: might be as well. But I'm kinda got renewed because
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: it was pretty big cliffhanger ending. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: would have been sad. It would have been very sad.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: It would have been very very sad. Oh. Now I'm
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: interested in the fan fiction world I've met. That place
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: is blowing up so many options for that fan fiction world.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: We have so many romance and side side stories in there.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I love it. Do love them meeting with the Indigenous people,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: and the Indigenous people telling the Black Parrots you don't
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: want to stay with us, I think you might want
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: to stay with us. Like it was like very indicative
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: of like, yeah, this is interesting, and then the whole
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: famis scheme very fun as well. Oh yeah, that's my
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: favorite episode I love. I've talked about one that one before.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: That's the passive aggressive episode where being passive Uh yeah,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I highly recommend it, and like I said, I think
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: we could come back and talk about these themes as
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: they relate to this show more in depth in the future.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: But in the meantime, cheers, cheers, Yes, thank thank you,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: clean and listeners. If you have any thoughts about this
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: show or any articles you want to send our away,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: you know we would love to get them, and as always,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: any suggestions of things we should talk about, and if
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: you want to hear us talk about this even more,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: let us know that as well. You can email up
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: stuff to your mom stuff at I hurt mea dot com.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: or Instagram and stuff I Never told you. Thanks. It's
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff under told the protiction
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I hurt Radio for more podcast from our heart radio
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: but I heard you app Apple podcast or Revulus and
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: David Ships