Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #48 - Can Hydroponics Save Our Food Crisis? | Bohdi Gardener [Fran's Hydroponics]

Transcript

#48 - Can Hydroponics Save Our Food Crisis? | Bohdi Gardener [Fran's Hydroponics] · The Shed Organics Show

0:00
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Shed
0:03
Organics Show. Today's guest we have Bodie from
0:08
Friends Hydroponics here in Brisbane, a hydroponics store
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helping people grow hydroponically.
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Would you believe? Now, I don't often speak about
0:19
this growing method. Obviously you'll know that I'm
0:22
very big on organic living soil. That's my thing.
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But that doesn't necessarily mean that there's not a place
0:28
for other methods of growing. And whether or not hydroponic
0:32
aquaponics or all of these different things can match soil
0:36
growing or outdoor soil growing, then, you know, it's really
0:40
interesting to test these different methods and see
0:42
whether there's a place for them.
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And whether or not we can actually improve the
0:46
technologies used in these systems to greatly match the sun
0:50
and things like that, that we speak about today in the
0:52
conversation. And the nutrient availability,
0:55
the the cost and the water saving and all of this so, so
0:59
many things that we touched on today in terms of hydroponic
1:02
growing and its place in the world and how so many people are
1:06
using this way of growing to access homegrown food.
1:10
If they're in an apartment or they don't have enough light or
1:13
all sorts of different things, they can grow their own food at
1:16
home. So Bodie takes us through a
1:19
whole bunch to do with hydroponic growing.
1:22
And if this is something that you've ever considered or you
1:25
want to know what the difference is between hydroponics and our
1:28
standard living soil growing, then this conversation is for
1:33
you. So stick around Here is Bodie
1:36
from Friends Hydroponics. So yeah, the people we get
1:56
through, it's a bit of a specialty store, so it's not
1:59
like going to Bunnings where you're kind of looking at
2:02
everything. People usually have an idea of
2:04
what they're coming in for. They've searched for something
2:06
and they've found us and they come in, we're kind of known a
2:10
little bit for our customer service.
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So when they come in, we don't tend to let people drift.
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I, we're more than happy to let them.
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We want them to look around. We'll encourage it.
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But usually like is, you know, are you already doing something
2:20
or did you want help finding something or is there something
2:23
you're thinking about? Because the, I love gardening in
2:27
general and horticulture in general in all its aspects.
2:31
The reason I sort of ended up in hydroponics is because it's,
2:35
there's so many parts to it and I've seen people do things that
2:39
you literally like, I have no idea where that came from or how
2:44
that works, but it does. And it's just so kind of
2:47
intricate and so many ways you can do things.
2:51
But the people that come in, we have a whole range of different
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growers. We, we had a boom of home
2:56
growers during the food because the prices of food have gone up.
3:01
The good thing about hydroponics is that it really lends itself
3:05
to people who aren't in the position to have soil like
3:09
apartment people, people with small spaces, balconies, flats,
3:13
rental places that you can't commit to a long term garden
3:16
where you really have to look after the soil for long periods
3:19
of time and seasons. It's more of a pop up, instant
3:22
kind of thing. So I guess that's kind of the
3:24
one of the advantages of it. I know you can pop up a pot of
3:28
soil, but then moving the soil again or you know, you, you know
3:35
that the best from soil is when you really have time to, to care
3:39
for it long term and not just throw a mix into a pot and go
3:42
from there. So it, so we have those growers,
3:46
but we also have like professional, what do you call
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like rare indoor plant growers, specialty plant growers, like
3:54
orchid growers, you know, people who buy $5000 cuttings from
4:00
Monsterias first in the country and try to propagate and change
4:04
those. Because we kind of have the
4:10
basic specialty mediums for those plants and also specialty
4:15
nutrients for those plants as well.
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It's a, it's very direct and they know exactly what they're
4:19
feeding. So we have a whole range of
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growers and you know, you get all kinds of types that you
4:26
never, sometimes you never know really what people are doing,
4:28
but you do your best to accommodate and just help people
4:32
with their problems. So.
4:34
Yeah, very true, man. That gives me a good overview in
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terms of like the types of people coming through.
4:39
It's like it seems to me that you know, you've got one end of
4:43
the stick where you say you've got experienced people that are
4:46
looking for something very specific often where they can
4:50
control the amount of light, humidity, all of these types of
4:54
things, even temperature and all of that going so far CO2.
4:58
So you can really nerd out on trying to really control the
5:02
climate in certain indoor. Spaces.
5:05
No, it's too far. I bet.
5:08
Yeah, exactly. But then, yeah, on the other end
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of the stick, you've got people who are just generally
5:14
interested in trying to grow some something for themselves,
5:17
but they can't access to soil and things like that.
5:20
I want to touch into the difference between what
5:24
hydroponics is compared to soil, because obviously you, like you
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said, you can use soil in these instances where you're growing
5:32
indoors or you're growing under an artificial setup or something
5:35
like this. But talk to me about hydroponics
5:38
itself as a practice. What actually is it if you have
5:41
to run it down into a basic thing, and what sort of things
5:45
are people growing hydroponically?
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Does it lend itself to certain plants more than others, or is
5:50
it just generally everything fits?
5:54
That's a good question. So well basically hydroponics is
5:59
when your nutrient need needs for the plant are entirely met
6:04
through your watering system. So that can even just mean hand
6:08
watering. If your medium that you're
6:12
growing your plant in contains plant alcohol, the roots and the
6:16
growth of the roots, then hydroponics is just everything
6:19
that plant that you need to feed, while all the nutrition
6:22
that it requires to grow comes from the water that you feed it.
6:25
So that's basically the the pure deaf and basic definition where
6:30
your soil support would just contain everything and you would
6:34
just make sure that everything is there so that you don't have
6:36
to think about it and the plant just can take what it needs.
6:40
So yeah, it is a lot more specific pretty well from what
6:44
I've seen now. Like originally I thought it was
6:47
quite, I guess, like most people that it was quite specific.
6:49
You know, you always see the same examples of his tomatoes,
6:53
his cucumbers, his lettuce, you know, his amazing greens.
6:59
You know, of course, you know, medical cannabis is, or cannabis
7:02
in general in the world has always.
7:03
When you hear hydroponics, people still that's the first
7:05
thing they think regardless, even though like maybe 80 or
7:10
more percent of your cals in Woolworths crops are actually
7:14
all grown in hydroponics, people still immediately think of
7:16
cannabis, but at least most of the leafy greens and greens that
7:22
they buy. But yeah, so it's amazing.
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I've seen literally everything grown in hydroponics that you
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can grow in the soil with maybe some very rare cases for very
7:34
particular plants that it just wouldn't be viable or make any
7:38
sense to do so. Like but you know you can grow
7:42
root vegetables fine as long as you get a good substrate.
7:45
Although they will use aeroponics which is similar
7:48
where they'll miss the roots and I've seen them grow potatoes
7:52
that way and just hanging free hanging you can.
7:56
You generally don't see people grow larger things with a big
8:02
central root system like a big tap root system in hydroponics
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is often because there's not as much depth.
8:08
But it is a long term thing to be growing indoor orchards,
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especially in colder countries in the cold seasons indoors in
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hydroponics like bananas in huge hundred 200 litre hydroponic
8:22
pots or orange tree crops. Or you know, it's very common to
8:27
do raspberries, blueberries, things like that in very highly
8:32
constructed Coco will pee substrate systems for about two
8:37
years at a time. So you can practically grow
8:41
nearly anything in hydroponics because as long as you're
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supporting the environment and the root system in the way that
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that plant desires and you're delivering the nutrients that it
8:52
requires, then there's no reason for it not to grow.
8:57
So it's amazing how adaptable it is.
9:00
Yeah, it's really good, really interesting.
9:03
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it would be because I mean like as you say,
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you're trying to match the nutrient profile exactly what it
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needs and when it needs it. I imagine though, like the
9:15
argument that I hear between soil and hydro, for example, is
9:20
that as you mentioned earlier, with the soil, you can kind of
9:24
load up a little bit, put some compost in things like this.
9:27
And then it's sort of got this battery or buffet that the plant
9:30
can access. And it's got the hopefully got
9:32
the life in it, the living parts of the soil that can break down
9:36
the amendments and the compost and turn it into plant available
9:39
nutrients. But in this hydro, obviously
9:41
it's directly plant available straight away because it's in
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solution, right? Is it super variable based on
9:50
the plant as to what nutrients you're feeding it and when and
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how difficult is that to learn or teach somebody?
9:57
We do get, we do constantly talk to people about this.
10:00
So every plant is very different in terms of generally growing in
10:06
hydroponics, like your consumer level hydroponics, the solutions
10:12
that you would buy your base nutrient is usually a a general
10:17
complex that's kind of matches most fast growing plants.
10:22
Say, you know, something sort of like a tomato plant where you
10:26
have a growth in bloom period. It'll cover a basically a base.
10:31
It's not going to cover everything to the need of that
10:33
plant. And of course it's very genetic
10:35
specific too. So you can't really have a
10:38
silver bullet. So a lot of the time there is
10:42
lots of additives and people think it's a like selling snake
10:48
oil. It's usually like they're
10:51
specific for different areas of growth that you may not match
10:54
with your base nutrient because you don't have a battery, you
10:57
don't have this huge complex that's sitting there that's
11:01
going to break down and the plants going to take it as it
11:03
needs it. The, the salts that the nutrient
11:08
salts that people refer to as chemicals, they, like you said,
11:13
they're the available form that you plant takes up in the soil
11:16
anyway, but they're already available.
11:18
You don't have to break it down from compost.
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And the other issue is that because of that, it's immediate.
11:26
So it's another reason why you don't really put these nutrients
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into soil because it it conflicts in a lot of ways.
11:36
But yeah, you really, you really have to hit your targets on some
11:40
different plants and needs. You would.
11:43
And I also imagine, like you said, you're just kind of giving
11:47
them the base of what they need. I want to talk about like the
11:51
quality of the nutrient itself, like the different nutrient
11:55
bottles that you can buy from different companies.
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How? How can someone still be, say,
12:02
like organic? Is there a way of being organic
12:06
in hydro? What does that mean to you?
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And how do you explain the difference between whether
12:11
something is synthetically derived or organically derived
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in terms of the bottled nutrients?
12:18
Yeah. And that that is a big industry
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like question and debate because there's so many different fields
12:26
of like, you know, especially the, the terminology mostly
12:31
around what organic really stands for.
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Like it doesn't have a carbon backbone.
12:35
Like is it like, you know, does it, is it, you know, it's
12:39
something that's pulled directly out of the ground but not
12:41
processed? Is it synthetic?
12:44
It, you know, it's mined, but is it's mineral, but is it not
12:47
organic? Like it's there's this whole
12:50
argument that goes on, but basically we generally tend to
12:54
if it's a pure mineral salt, where there's no, I suppose you
12:59
would say like, and you generally say if there's no
13:03
organic components, acids, fulvic acids, humic acids,
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kelps, you know, compost teas, fish emulsion, vermicat, stuff
13:14
like that. If there's none of that in there
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and it's just water and pure nutrient salts, we'd refer to
13:19
that as mineral and non organic growing.
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But in the, in the last like, and it's even been longer, but
13:28
let's say the last five years, there's been a huge progression
13:32
towards and even on a commercial level, people wanting to go more
13:36
organic with this process. And so sort of crossover
13:40
nutrients, your Singanex, we like to, you know, to say is,
13:47
you know, there'll be a combination, there'll be some
13:48
minerals, salts in there to hit your targets, but then they will
13:51
also include, so I guess you quality enhancing organics.
13:55
So they'll put in some of those extra things.
13:58
Cool a kelp, A kelp or seaweed or the the folic acids or any of
14:04
those complex carbohydrates, things like that, They tend not
14:07
to run as clean in the systems, but that's where the crossover
14:11
is being difficult. And we're just sort of starting
14:14
to see some purely organic products that run clean, which
14:19
are huge advancement. But in saying that, you can
14:23
also, if you want to run a hybrid system, you can also
14:28
fortify the actual medium you're growing in.
14:30
If you're using like a peat or a cocoa substrate, it's really
14:34
easy to sort of fortify it with a lot of organic amendments.
14:38
And so that way you're kind of like, you know, getting your
14:43
regular on target feeds with the nutrients, but you're also
14:47
getting some of these other components that benefit your
14:49
bricks levels and your overall plant stress health and your
14:53
beneficial microbes, which I know we talked about a lot, But
15:00
so that's one way. And and there are systems that
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run usually more commercially that are nearly entirely water
15:10
based, but organic. And they will do mixtures of
15:15
teas, feed through lines into a neutral substrate like you would
15:19
any, any hydroponics, but they're fully organic feeds.
15:26
But then the difficulty for them is to continuously be flushing,
15:32
cleaning lines, making sure that they're not getting blockages
15:36
and other expensive equipment. Yeah, yeah.
15:38
So yes, you can. You can in many ways kind of
15:41
bridge the gap or get fully over there.
15:43
That's cool. One thing that you just
15:47
mentioned about is microbes or like any kind of sort of
15:52
enzymes, things like this. I forgot enzymes.
15:56
Yeah, Yeah, that's OK. In in aquaponics where we've got
16:00
the combination of fish and in sort of aquatic plants and that
16:06
providing some sort of nutrition.
16:08
They're also cleaning it as well.
16:10
I've seen that that can kind of have this nice cycle with
16:13
aquaponics. But that's a lot to set up for
16:15
your average grower when it comes to like plant nutrition,
16:20
the actual plant itself, the quality of the plant at the end
16:23
of the day, hydroponic versus soil growing, if they've got all
16:27
the nutrients that they require, both of those, what's the
16:31
difference between 1:00 that's grown in a living soil that's
16:34
full of, you know, life in the soil versus one that's a soil
16:38
less medium and it's water and stuff.
16:40
Is there any difference in nutritional quality that you
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found or heard about in the end result between hydroponic grown
16:49
food and soil grain? Yeah, absolutely.
16:53
So look, I, I first want to say that, you know, we're France
16:58
hydroponics, but really we're more about protective cropping.
17:04
That's more of a commercial term.
17:05
But anything that is like we do a lot of work with indoor stuff
17:10
obviously and people doing stuff, intense artificial
17:13
lighting environments. So we have a lot of organics and
17:17
living soil and things in our store as well.
17:19
So it's not purely hydro and I am a huge advocate and was
17:23
before hydroponics about organic growing.
17:26
And I think we can sustainably and economically do it on large
17:31
scale. I think that that that's the
17:32
better we should be sort of aiming down that road because
17:34
it's working in in with the planet.
17:37
And I think at the end of the day, I think it isn't like soil.
17:42
People make soil to be easy, but it's it's it's very complex and
17:48
if you're trying to get the very high standards that some
17:50
industries are, it's you almost have to be like a full blown
17:55
scientist to understand exactly what you're putting in and
17:58
getting out. So it's a long road to get sort
18:02
of to there. And I, I do want to see
18:04
everything eventually get there, but hard to phonic, I think will
18:07
have its place. But in terms of the nutrient
18:10
difference, all your store bought crops, commercial big,
18:16
you know, lettuce farms, things like this that are pumping out
18:18
millions of lettuce. They have like literally
18:23
millions of holes. Like I went to a lettuce farm
18:26
that was local the other day, little farm, half a million
18:30
holes of lettuce. What they're feeding is quite a
18:35
simple nutrient routine. You know it, it's all about
18:39
economics. You know, the more they put in,
18:41
the more it's going to cost you in the store.
18:42
So for them it has to be viable. For everyone else, it has to be
18:46
viable. So I'd say that anything that
18:49
you're getting in that circumstance, I think if you
18:51
tested it, you're going to see fairly low levels of bio
18:54
activity, especially with the treatments that they go through
18:57
before getting to the stores. And also the nutrient inputs
19:00
were very lean. So you're not going to have a
19:03
huge build up in there, but the same applies to broad acre crops
19:09
in soil that are also in big box stores because again, basically
19:14
a very similar thing where they're they're they're in soil,
19:17
but they're basically just spraying them with chemicals
19:19
anyway. So you're still going to get a
19:21
very similar thing now as you would understand like growing in
19:25
a proper living soil ecosystem or a permacultural system.
19:29
The nutrition of that is going to be off the charts compared to
19:32
something else. And in terms of hydroponics, you
19:34
can do something very similar. And I have seen a fair, a few
19:39
white papers that have done the testing around it, but you got
19:42
to put the inputs in and that's going to bring the price of the
19:45
product up again. So it can be done.
19:49
But I think ultimately I, I still think if you're going to
19:54
talk about ultimate perfection of nutrition and gut health and
19:59
the biomes that are going to carry from that food across, I
20:04
think you're living soil ecosystems, especially ones like
20:07
that you've done yourself and that haven't gone through a
20:10
washing and sterilizing process that they have to go through to
20:13
go into stores. You're not going to beat it.
20:17
But I'd say in general from what people are growing in at home,
20:20
like if they bought a bag of soil.
20:23
And grew a plant in that. Or if they bought a hydroponic
20:26
system and grew a plant in that. From what I know about some of
20:29
those potting mixes, they'd probably get better nutrition
20:33
from the hydroponics that that they'd grow.
20:36
Yeah, honestly, I tend to agree with a lot of what you just
20:39
said, man. I think you've nailed it in
20:41
terms of just saying it really depends on how hard out you're
20:45
going in terms of really nurturing the soil, the living
20:48
soil itself. And if it is conventional
20:51
farming, it's exactly the same. They're just putting in the
20:54
exact amount of nutrients that they can just get away with for
20:57
cost to then provide to be able to just get absolutely maximum
21:02
profits and maximum, you know, maximum bottom line at the end
21:06
of the day. So all of these companies in the
21:09
big box stores that you're seeing, they're just putting
21:11
this produce there for a minimal margin and it doesn't actually
21:16
correlate to high nutrition. So, but the fact is that it can
21:20
be done, like you said, in a hydroponic thing.
21:22
And I think that's really promising for this food shortage
21:25
or food crisis or whatever food supply crisis that we're in, in
21:29
terms of how do we supply everybody with nutrient dense
21:33
food. If more people had balconies or
21:36
a little cupboard under the stairs that they want to set a
21:38
little setup in, they can start growing stuff.
21:41
And it is possible to do it with a high nutrient content if
21:46
you're doing it hydroponically. And like you mentioned before,
21:51
you can get a tent, an artificial LED light fans, all
21:55
that gear and still grow in a soil bed in the tent if you
22:00
really want to. Like you don't have to do
22:02
hydroponics. That's that's very true.
22:04
More difficult for you to move that ecosystem that you've
22:08
created once you put it there. So you really want it to be more
22:11
of a permanent fixture? Yeah, I, I agree with that too.
22:14
And yeah, I think though, I want to highlight the importance of
22:18
hydroponics because obviously, you know, you can, there is a,
22:22
there is a space for it. And I'm a massive soil guy, and
22:25
I agree with everything that you said about trying to ultimately
22:29
do that for everyone in soil. But it seems like unachievable
22:34
in this current world where we've got so many people stacked
22:36
on top of each other. We may as well make use of the
22:40
ability to grow things with a different methodology,
22:43
technology, to be able to grow some healthy food for people
22:46
rather than focus on these big chains, the terrible food
22:50
quality, all of this kind of thing at.
22:53
The end of the day, you know low nutritional food is better than
22:57
no food. Yeah, yeah.
22:59
Exactly right, exactly right. So.
23:01
And and. We're on our way there.
23:03
Yeah, and like in in big cities like San Francisco where they've
23:08
started to do the vertical farming, there's a lot of
23:10
criticism around it. They're kind of limited on what
23:12
crops they can grow at the moment.
23:13
But the fact is that the land that they're using is only like
23:17
it's not even a block, you know, and but vertically wise it it
23:21
may as well be a several acres, could be 10 acres worth of
23:25
crops. But the the land footprint in
23:28
terms of like your in environmental impact is actually
23:32
a lot lower. And those systems are built to
23:34
be entirely recycling systems. So they don't waste any water
23:39
and the nutrition is completely used and recycled.
23:42
So maybe it's not as ideal as a living soil product, but there's
23:47
huge benefits and and like you said in this current situation
23:52
we're in so. Yeah, you're right man.
23:56
There is certainly a place for that.
23:57
That vertical stuff is pretty cool looking.
24:02
Hey guys, really quickly jumping in.
24:04
I just want to remind you if you are not subscribed to this show,
24:07
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24:17
All right, back to the show. I wonder if we can move into
24:21
like environment and setting up artificial environments.
24:24
If if you can, you've obviously got and sell a lot of different
24:30
gear. There's plenty of companies now
24:32
that are making quite incredible gear.
24:35
One of the big debates I guess, or one of the things that's now
24:40
better than it used to be, is the quality of the light, the
24:44
ability to dial in the spectrum based on the type of setting
24:49
that you want for the type of plant.
24:51
They have these broad spectrum LEDs which are good on energy.
24:55
They're not going to heat up like these old halogen bulbs and
24:58
things that would just cause so much heat inside your tents.
25:02
Can you talk to me about the basics of lighting first and
25:08
foremost, and then we'll get into kind of just environmental
25:11
control and how important that is.
25:13
So just talk about lighting and what you would recommend to
25:16
people when choosing lights. Yeah, no worries.
25:22
So the first, just the the first thing I just want to say is that
25:27
like in in protected cropping, you're we like to say you're
25:31
you're the God, right? You're you're your nature,
25:33
you're you're the environment, you're everything.
25:36
So you need to be aware of everything.
25:39
The fan, all the gear we sell is the environment and the 1st
25:43
place people try to cheap out is on the environment and then they
25:46
have issues and then the first thing they blame is the
25:48
nutrient. But environment is is crucial
25:53
and LE DS have made a huge change in the last even five
25:57
years. The the first ones on the market
26:00
were absolutely horrible and a lot of people had very bad
26:04
experiences with them. But in Australia, LE DS are
26:08
super essential, especially Queensland, northern QLD,
26:13
Equatorial zones, anywhere. That's a lot of heat naturally,
26:18
even if you're in a house, like you don't want to be running air
26:20
con either. So CMH bulbs, ceramic metal
26:26
halides came out just before LE DS and they were actually
26:31
incredible technology that's very similar on electrical
26:36
usage. They're also they're bald,
26:38
sorry, but they're very good on electrical usage and they mimic
26:42
the sun very closely. The only issue with those is
26:47
that you have to replace them and they still run more
26:53
traditional ballasts, which are or drivers, early light drivers
26:57
that that could be flame hazards and all kinds of things.
27:02
LE DS are a lot safer. The diodes are basically grown.
27:09
They're like a crystal that's grown.
27:11
There's different grades of them, which is why you get cheap
27:13
and expensive ones. Yeah, if you don't know that,
27:15
yeah, look into. It.
27:16
I really know that, yeah. That's why you often see like
27:19
people nitpicking like you know, what company and what type are
27:23
they? So the LE DS now they are using
27:26
basically the bulbs that we used to use, they put out a lot of
27:29
energy as basically just heat as you're really far red spectrums
27:34
that you plant didn't necessarily totally use did a
27:38
little bit which we've had to replace in the LE DS.
27:43
The full spectrum LE DS is what you generally want to go for and
27:47
I think even the examples of newer lights that have very like
27:54
you can change every little spectrum on the light.
27:57
I think again, it's one of those things where you basically have
28:00
to be a scientist to understand what you're what you're actually
28:03
changing. I mean, you can have a lot of
28:05
people giving you feedback and your mate might have one and go,
28:08
oh mate, I turned this red all the way up and I had way better
28:11
result, you know, and maybe they hit the nail on the head, but is
28:15
changing yellow to 30 and red to 90 and blue to say, is that
28:18
really what the plant wants? I mean, all the plants
28:22
basically, they all developed in natural sunlight.
28:28
So at the end of the day, what we try to do is just find a full
28:31
spectrum lighting. I still think it's pretty much
28:33
unless you're in a very specialized field, in a
28:37
commercial aspect where you're looking for every 1% of change,
28:43
it's best just to go full spectrum.
28:45
And they do come very, very, very close.
28:48
They're within the mid to high 90s now of close to the sun
28:51
spectrum. But we often refer to it as π
28:55
lighting, your photosynthetic active radiation, the stuff the
28:59
plant can actually use. And they still play with it.
29:03
They've played with it a lot. And you'll often find that the
29:07
only real difference is that if you're only growing racks of
29:12
microgreens or lettuce or something that's a quick
29:17
turnover leafy green that you probably a lot of these bigger
29:21
lights are designed with bloom enhancers like red enhancers for
29:27
your growing crops for a late season.
29:29
So which can be used by those vegetables and you can grow them
29:33
just fine. But usually you won't encounter
29:36
that encounter that over 200 Watt light because it's not
29:41
really. I mean you'll only get the Reds
29:43
once. You usually go over 2 to 300
29:46
Watt light unless the the lower light is specifically made for
29:52
flowering or fruiting if any of that makes sense.
29:55
I don't know if that's really what you asked.
29:56
Yeah, absolutely right. That's.
29:58
Kind of where we're at, but energy wise, heat wise,
30:02
significant difference, huge, huge impact on not only the
30:06
energy on the environment demand, but also on your, your
30:10
bill. Australia is horrific for
30:12
electrical and you know, there are advantages of bulbs, but you
30:20
know, in in I think Oregon and America, they actually banned
30:24
bulbs a while back because they got dumped commercially in
30:29
landfills so much that the mercury levels were so high in
30:32
the landfill that yeah, there's lots of advantages to LE DS, you
30:36
know, so, but that's where we're at and in, you know, just to
30:41
finish that, you know, two years ago, if you wanted, say a 600
30:45
Watt LED, which will run you what used to be kind of the
30:50
equivalent of like 1000 Watt bulb out of power, it's now 600
30:55
watts. But if you were to buy one of
30:58
those two years ago, you were spending $2000 for a lot and
31:04
you'd kind of need a light that size to get a really good
31:07
fruiting crop. And you can buy that same light
31:10
for five, $600.00. So it's really made getting into
31:15
it a little way easier for people.
31:17
Yeah, that's really it. Because the technology I've
31:20
noticed in terms of like you say, the last five years, it's
31:23
just become way more accessible and they've got way more options
31:26
as well. Introducing like the AI systems
31:31
that can control all of the different elements.
31:33
Like something like a company like AC Infinity just has it
31:36
dialed in terms of their, their AI system where you can
31:40
literally almost set and forget. Once these machines are up and
31:43
running, obviously there's there's so much that can be gone
31:48
into the environment. The indoor growing, you know how
31:53
much of the daily light that each plant is getting, the par
31:57
reading like you were mentioning, how far away the
31:59
light is from the plant, the hours of lighting that you're
32:02
supplying. You can literally play God in in
32:06
so many instances and creating that environment is there.
32:11
Like I know you said it mimics the sun say like 90% is there.
32:17
What's my question in that 10%, what are we noticing that is
32:23
missing from an indoor grown crop compared to a sun grown
32:27
crop? What?
32:28
What do we know about what's missing in that 10%?
32:33
Well, like us, like I referred to like the, the, the PA what
32:38
what the plants actually are using in terms of the light
32:41
waves, the colors they're using really goes from like 440
32:46
nanometers to like 770 nanometers.
32:52
So I hope I got the terminology right.
32:56
Yeah, that's right. But basically there is more
32:59
outside of that. How do we know that they're not
33:03
using that spectrum that's outside of it.
33:06
So like you said, we we've gone right down to one side and on of
33:10
the infrared, right up to the ultraviolet and we kind of got
33:14
that last little 10% on either side of the scale.
33:18
How do we know that they're not using that?
33:20
Is that because do you like, I'm not putting you on the spot, but
33:23
I just mean in terms of like, do we know that they've only
33:27
studied that? We only have instrumentation to
33:29
read that, you know, how do we know that the plant isn't
33:34
necessarily using that? Is that what people are
33:36
studying, I presume in these lighting companies and all that
33:39
kind of thing? Yeah, No, no, that's a very
33:41
valid question. And look, I'm a strong believer
33:43
in, you know, like I studied science, but I'm a strong
33:45
believer in, you know, never believing that we know things
33:50
for certain. So, but yes, as you said, like
33:55
it's been decades of because again, money drives this.
34:00
So if there's light waves that are useful to somebody, they
34:04
will find them. If there's light waves that
34:06
they're going, this wave is not contributing anything.
34:09
It's just costing us power. They won't use it.
34:11
Plants outside may very well be using a lot of the waves we
34:14
don't use, but they might be using it in such a minuscule way
34:18
that really to your bottom line, like of this amazing, big, juicy
34:23
nutritional tomato, you probably didn't need that one or it
34:28
wasn't you know it. The fact that you didn't have it
34:31
didn't stop you from getting there.
34:32
So kind of to that point. And I and it also comes into,
34:38
like I said, the making the diodes themselves, like there's
34:42
still technology advancements that can be made in terms of
34:44
like how do we make diodes that reach these these areas that
34:48
we're not getting? And the UV ones that I was
34:52
starting to touch on, the UV ones, they're very damaging,
34:56
obviously like UVAUVBUVC. So they're not ones that they're
35:01
going to include because they can cause harm, but your plant
35:05
definitely uses them. So you can buy supplemental bars
35:08
to be used in a Safeway, but they're separate.
35:12
The other thing is that those diets don't last as long.
35:14
So if they put them on a lot, they're going to degrade well
35:18
before your warranty runs out, like they're not going to be
35:20
going by the time your light, the other diodes will go another
35:24
eight years and your UV ones are burnt out in three.
35:28
So that's the reason why there's always going to be like that bit
35:32
of lacking. You know, there's there's things
35:34
that they either find that just aren't necessary to the bottom
35:38
line or your or the cost to you and also the ones that are
35:43
harmful and you can supplement them in.
35:45
But that's generally why you're never going to have 100%.
35:48
You know natural sunlight is the best.
35:51
Yeah. Again, if we have these lights
35:54
because they're situations where we can't use it so.
35:58
Yeah. And as you've mentioned a couple
36:00
of times, we we lack 90 something percent there.
36:03
And you know that was really interesting.
36:06
Thank you. About the the UV and what that
36:08
does to the diodes and basically coming down to the bottom line
36:12
again, that's super interesting to understand why I wonder now
36:17
if you can talk to me about humidity, how how important is
36:22
humidity And also if hang on, let's go with that, how
36:28
important is humidity? I'll save the second question
36:30
after that. Well, it's one of the essential
36:32
elements in your growing situation, like your plants to
36:37
transpire require certain pressure differences between the
36:41
levels inside the leaves and the stomata in the outside of the
36:44
plant. So humidity has a lot to do with
36:47
your pressure difference. That's why you hear about VPD
36:49
like your vapor pressure difference.
36:51
And commercially they use humidity deficits and all kinds
36:56
of different terminology that all mean different specific
36:59
things. But pretty much you're trying
37:01
to, again, it comes down to years of research, finding out
37:05
what certain plants require to get the most response and at
37:10
what time of that plant's life to get the most response.
37:13
So humidity in a controlled area is something that you have to
37:17
introduce or control depending on what you're bringing in from
37:22
outside. And if it's not correct, you
37:26
won't get the result you need. Outside you have, you don't have
37:30
that exact control, you'd have to kind of just leave it up to
37:34
the environment. But you have the advantage of
37:37
unlimited fresh air and free air flow.
37:44
And UVUV sterilizes a lot of pathogens.
37:47
So if you don't have them inside your tent, the UV, then that's
37:51
another thing that you don't get.
37:52
And there's also a lot of like O3 in the rain, which is also
37:58
sterilizing. So a big difference as to why
38:01
your tap water, there's lots of reasons, but a big difference as
38:04
to why your tap water is never going to be as good as
38:06
rainwater, fresh rainwater, I should say.
38:09
But yeah, so those elements, like if you just have high
38:12
humidity inside, you're opening up to a lot of problems.
38:16
And if you have it too low, you plan either way.
38:18
If it's not right, your plan is not going to produce so strictly
38:24
important, but it's one of the the several elements that has to
38:27
be right, so. Yeah.
38:28
Well, that's what I was going to ask you next is like if you had
38:31
to, if you had to pinpoint like what some of the main things to
38:38
focus on if you're growing in there, because often it's like
38:41
just focus on the weakest link 1st and try and move up the
38:44
chain. And it's incredibly difficult to
38:46
manage airflow, oxygen coming in, but also controlling the
38:51
temperature because you want fresh air for, you know, CO2 and
38:56
oxygen exchange and all of this. You want temperature to stay the
39:02
same roughly. You don't want to have too
39:04
drastic fluctuations in temperature or have to run air
39:07
con like you said. And then you've got this
39:10
humidity as well. So if you've got something
39:12
pumping out humidity and then you've got it's getting too hot
39:16
and you're having to extract all the air, you're having to
39:18
balance all of these things within that environment.
39:22
Outside. We see natural fluctuations in
39:26
in the temperature and then the humidity across the day.
39:29
And I know that they're starting to be able to bring this
39:31
technology in into the automated systems where they can do like a
39:35
sunrise, sunset type thing with the lights and, and increase
39:39
humidity in the morning or the middle of the day, whatever it
39:42
needs. But yeah, where are the common
39:46
problems that you see people sort of commonly coming up
39:50
against? And then yeah, what are the main
39:52
ones to focus on to fix like temperature, humidity, lighting,
39:56
blah blah blah. Yep, great question because it's
40:01
the first thing we talk to every customer about #1 genetics,
40:06
genetics, genetics, genetics. The better your genetics you
40:09
start with, the better your result, the better.
40:12
The stronger the plant, the more resilient it's going to be, the
40:14
better yield you're going to get.
40:16
Like Snipe? I look, this is just an
40:18
arbitrary number, but it's like, say you're like, I want to get 2
40:21
kilos off this plant of whatever.
40:24
If you buy a plant or put a plant in that's just not able to
40:28
do 2 kilos and you're going, what am I doing wrong?
40:31
Genetics is number 12 environment.
40:35
So that has to do with basically the main three elements of your
40:39
temperature, your humidity and your lighting.
40:45
You can't really put any of those in preference of each
40:47
other because they all have to be in balance.
40:49
So we like to say 1% of light is 1% of yield kind of thing.
40:52
So if you don't have enough light, you're going to limit
40:55
your yield. But there is a threshold and you
40:57
really need to know your plant and the threshold second to that
41:03
for the what your plant needs, the temperature and humidity
41:07
always work in balance. So if they're not at the right
41:11
balance for what you're trying to achieve at that time, then
41:14
you're not going to get the best results.
41:15
If you can sort of keep them in a general, most of us at home
41:19
are just trying to keep it in a range that we know is safe.
41:22
We don't have that kind of high technology and unlimited
41:25
resources to keep it at, you know, within one percent, 2% of
41:29
value. And look, you can sway 5 to 10%
41:34
and anything and still get really, really good results and
41:36
not have to stress about it. And then from there, it'll be,
41:41
you know, you're, you're basically your nutrient and
41:46
water, but I'd say it's more your watering and how effective
41:51
you're watering more than the nutrient itself.
41:54
The nutrient is nearly dead last.
41:56
It's the first thing, like I said before, that people
41:58
complain about and it's the first thing that they try to
42:01
fix, but it's usually the last thing you need to think about.
42:05
A lot of the time when they're like, this nutrient is burning
42:07
me, it's because they're not irrigating enough or, you know,
42:12
often enough or if they're going, I've got nitrogen
42:15
deficiency. It's like, well, you've been
42:17
watering way too much and the plant has no oxygen and it's
42:21
sacrificing leaves because it's trying to maintain.
42:24
It can't take up nutrients if it's waterlogged and the root
42:27
pressure is too high and. Look, lastly, man, I know you're
42:30
a busy man. You're trying to hold down the
42:32
store at the same time as having this conversation, so I really
42:35
appreciate that. But lastly, what's like for you
42:40
yourself in terms of a grower, whether you're growing
42:44
hydroponically or whatever, what's exciting for you at the
42:48
moment? What sort of things are you
42:49
thinking about in your growing or just helping people with?
42:52
Or what's some exciting stuff that you're thinking about at
42:55
the moment? Garden related?
42:59
There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on.
43:03
So I, you know, we, we are big advocators for the, the medical
43:10
cannabis space in Australia. We're big advocators for the
43:14
health industry that's around that and also the, you know,
43:19
renewable resources industry that's behind that as well.
43:22
So we're always keeping an eye on that.
43:24
And because that industry is really like a fairly, it's very
43:27
new to Australia. It's been around years now, but
43:30
it is still a bit of a scramble. But we're, we're always excited
43:34
to try and see if that, because it's not only that, it's also a
43:37
huge economic thing for Australia.
43:41
So where we can't engage directly in that.
43:43
I mean, I was, I, I worked in medical facilities, but we
43:49
obviously in the store, we can't engage with illegal activity,
43:52
but we are always very excited about that industry and we try
43:54
to stay up to date with that industry and we have a lot of
43:58
friends and partners in that industry.
44:00
So that's hydroponically and organically and every aspect of
44:05
the, the ability to get into this is easier than ever now
44:08
because the like you said, companies like AC Infinity, not
44:13
trying to plug them, but they have driven, you know, a sort of
44:16
a standard and it's made companies sort of had to broaden
44:19
their aspects. And now there's so many options
44:22
for people that when they walk in, it's like, I can set you up
44:24
and it's going to cost you. What it cost me to buy one light
44:27
two years ago is amazing, which is giving a lot more power to
44:30
people to do things just as a quick setup at home.
44:33
And in situations where they can't do it, you know, there's
44:36
some incredible people doing stuff that you just couldn't
44:40
really manage outside because it has to be so specific.
44:44
And the other thing is it is an exciting field in protected
44:47
cropping in general because whether you're in soil or not,
44:51
because we are looking at climate issues and outdoor
44:56
farmers are really struggling with that.
44:59
And it is really not cheap to set up indoor facilities at that
45:05
scale. But the more that we can and the
45:08
more that they are, which they are trying to now, you're kind
45:11
of securing that food future regardless of how you're doing
45:15
it. And because it's now protected
45:17
cropping, they can also use crop steering to a greater extent to
45:21
get better results for people, better crop protection and a
45:26
reduction of pesticides because you're not so exposed.
45:29
So that's also really cool too. You're right.
45:32
And I just, oh, sorry, I just wanted to jump in on that point.
45:37
You're right about we're not putting pesticides through back
45:40
into the environment. We're not spraying anything like
45:43
it's all contained within this solar system.
45:46
And if we can get it super accurate to the point where it
45:50
is like copy and paste, it's going to be the same.
45:53
You know, the product is going to be the same every time you do
45:57
it because you're doing it exactly the same.
45:59
It's this rigorous process that's kind of locked in and
46:03
very exact and very scientific. We know that we can do it for
46:07
cheap. We cheap enough.
46:09
We know that we can supply food to a lot of people this way and
46:13
get people growing themselves this way.
46:15
And it does not impact the climate in a lot of ways unless
46:19
it's like based on the energy consumption itself in terms of
46:23
lighting and things like that. But it's certainly promising.
46:26
It really gives me a lot of good ideas for the food crisis.
46:31
Well, just to touch on that, the the most, the thing that I think
46:34
is the most incredible is that I wish, I wish I knew better the
46:39
exact countries, but there's a fair few European countries
46:42
where you cannot have a protected facility if it's not
46:46
0% waste. And even though they're using
46:50
electricity for lighting, a lot of them are trying to do half
46:54
artificial and half they only use artificial lighting on
46:57
systems where the light will come up to meet the power level
46:59
if the sunlight isn't. So you're, you're working to
47:02
sort of get consistency, but you're you're reducing energy
47:05
costs. But the big thing that a lot of
47:07
people don't think about when it comes to the hydroponics is that
47:11
it is always been an incredible water saving system.
47:16
So even though, you know, it seems less natural, I mean,
47:19
there are ways of doing that with advanced soil systems of
47:24
the bright right amount of composting, cover cropping,
47:26
planting the soil use, you know, moisture retention.
47:30
But in general, compared to my soil farming, hydroponics, you
47:34
know, you're not going to get this hot day where it just
47:36
evaporates into the atmosphere. It'll evaporate into the space
47:40
and then collect and then you reuse it back, you filter it,
47:42
you clean it, you can go back into watering again.
47:46
And so the water usage is significant.
47:48
And in those overseas countries where they've had the legacy and
47:53
the money to do so and the four Fort to do so, they it's almost
47:57
like they never have to put water into the facility.
48:01
Yeah, you're right. They don't.
48:03
It's like it's saving water continuously.
48:04
You're recycling and and you said it's just a lot of
48:07
recycling. And then if the nutrients
48:11
themselves are cheap enough, they're easily made and they're
48:16
widely available, it means that more people can access it.
48:19
So I think it's really good, man.
48:22
It's a really, really exciting time.
48:24
And I think hydroponics certainly has a place in terms
48:27
of moving forward for this food security for our planet.
48:32
Well, I like the fact that you like people like yourself
48:37
advocating for organic growth as well.
48:39
Like like I said, we do advocate for organic growth and we do
48:42
have soil partners here and we have a lot of maybe like a third
48:49
of our customer base are all in organic systems.
48:53
So it's good anyone to help spread and get that information
48:57
out there is great. So I appreciate that.
49:00
And we never touched upon microbes, but that is that is
49:03
also getting used highly in hydroponics as well might only
49:07
in really subsite straight systems.
49:10
And they're starting to find that it's more a bacteria is
49:14
more useful because it's immediate where it's fungal
49:16
colonies take time and a lot of these crops are finished before
49:19
the the colonies are ready to go.
49:22
So, but there is a lot of that use too.
49:25
So that's taking us away from more chemical use as well.
49:27
And and that breeds into actual health, human health and
49:32
product. You know your healthy product in
49:34
the end as well. And then we have it, ladies and
49:54
gentlemen, hydroponic growing is certainly something that is
49:57
becoming widely accessible and used.
50:00
So thank you to Bodie from Friends Hydroponics.
50:02
Thank you to Fran and the team there for letting us steal him
50:06
for the conversation. But if you want to learn more,
50:08
you can go and check out Friends Hydroponics on Instagram.
50:12
They got plenty of showcasing what the gear can do and talking
50:15
all things that they sell and promote.
50:17
So go and check out their links in the description.
50:20
You can go and support them. As always, if you enjoyed this
50:24
episode it would be really amazing if you could share the
50:26
episode or leave a review. Any thoughtful comments or stars
50:31
would greatly appreciate and I would greatly appreciate it and
50:34
it would really help to spread the awareness of this show.
50:38
We are so close to our one year wrap up and I'm so grateful for
50:43
you listening and being part of the show.
50:45
Another episode for the books. So thank you to you and we'll
50:48
see you again on the next episode.
50:51
Take care, bye for now.