Latest / Dispatched & Dysfunctional / Trained for Chaos, Not for Carrying It Home — Joe Henderson

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Trained for Chaos, Not for Carrying It Home — Joe Henderson · Dispatched & Dysfunctional

• Chris Stockton: All right, welcome back to Dispatches Disfunctional. This one hits a little close to home. ⁓ today's guest is Joe Henderson. Joe works now as a better dad coach, but this conversation is not just about coaching. It's about identity, pressure, family, and what happens when the job starts taking pieces of you before you even realize you handed them over and it engulfs you. So, Joe, before the titles, the teaching, the coaching, and the here's what I do now version of yourself, who are you really and What did the job take from you before you noticed you it and realized it? Joe Henderson: All right, so so first of all. And it was the big part of me, it was my identity as who I was. you know, like I I would run into people that I went to school with or knew leading up to me being in the in the police, and they didn't recognize me. They were like, Wow, you are such a different person. ⁓ but the biggest impact from me for from my life in that situation. I mean I I went in and I ended up having two young fellas ⁓ not long into the job. ⁓ but it just affected my life ⁓ around being at home. I was I mean I didn't see it at the time, right? Because you're living it. So you're just in the motion of putting one foot in front of the other. And this is where unfortunately we in this area we don't see the change because it happens gradually. And you know, just one shift at a time, one shift at a time, and then you know, you're getting a buildup of you know, lack of sleep for one, then y your body's completely depleted and drained. And then you're carrying all of this stuff from your shifts that you've been doing or dealt with. And where's your actual release from that? So there is no release. You know, there's no downtime because you're wired to be in a position where you're on the go all the time. You are that person all the time. Even when you take your uniform off, you're still that person. So I found for me ⁓ and it wasn't look ⁓ weirdly enough, I mean I lost my relationship and stuff as well. But there was other circumstances there as well. I mean I went through, you know, a traumatic event as well. ⁓ and I mean I ended up leaving with PTSD. So I was in a bad way. Chris Stockton: Yeah. So you you turn it into one of the statistics it sounds like in the end. Joe Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. And but it that that was something like it it crept up on me. I had no idea. you know, like I mean obviously I lost my relationship over it, I ended up being a single dad, you know, had you know whatever time I could see my boys, so that it completely changes your life. So the if if you allow the uniform will strip you of your identity. Because you are no longer the person under the uniform, you are the uniform. Chris Stockton: And like you said, it it does it at very gradual increments and I think a lot of us that have been doing it for any given of number of years, we hit that that spot at one time or another. ⁓ mine was probably about four years ago. My family's like, Look, you can't live the job, you can work it, but you can't live it. Or you we're leaving. I'm like, Okay, that makes sense. I didn't realize it until it was brought to me, like, hey Joe Henderson: Yeah. Chris Stockton: You're kinda overdoing it here. So yeah, no, and that's and th the funny thing is, you know, it you don't you don't know you don't really know what you're losing at first, you know, if if you're feeling your pride, your purpose, or your belonging, leave first. You know what I mean? Joe Henderson: Yeah. You know what's funny though, you just you just hit on a word. Our pride gets in the way. Because you wear that uniform and you're so used to being that person that turns up to shit fights. And you're the one that's there dealing with it and fixing it. So therefore, you know what? Like this is what I do for a daily job. Like this is what I do. I I turn up and fix shit. Right? And then you're carrying that pride of this is what I do for my daily job. So I can't be like this. I can't be in a bad way. I just gotta keep putting one foot in front of the other. Chris Stockton: And that's when it starts eating at you. Joe Henderson: ⁓ it does, yeah. I mean I had colleagues who, you know, would say to me, Hey, you do you realise that you're sort of reacting to things a bit different to what you were? I'm like, No. Like, ⁓ man, we've seen this and we've seen this, you know, like you're it's a small thing, but you you would never have reacted like that before. So you know, others can see it, we don't, because we're just in that bubble and we're just doing what we're doing, we're reacting however we're reacting at the time, and you know, we don't see it because we're sitting here with it, so close to it, we don't see. the changes. But everyone else around you can see the changes. Chris Stockton: Takes the outside eye. Joe Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean yeah. ⁓ look Chris Stockton: Yeah. You know the Funny thing is we we we we should notice it more in our partner and our spouses than we do and should start saying more before we do. ⁓ again, my wife's the one that pulled me to the side, like, Hey, you gotta fix this. Your kids are starting to struggle, I'm starting to struggle, fix it. Joe Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean look, even after and this is the weird thing as well, like I even after my relationship broke down, you know, I was basically single dad then and still just trying to go through the motions, right? ⁓ and then I ended up leaving the job through PTSD. And and I'll go into that actually a bit because that That day was something that I never saw coming and how it hit me was unbelievable. Chris Stockton: Yeah, let's go into that. Joe Henderson: So let's so I'd gone off the road, right? So I'd been general duties. I don't know what you guys call it in the US, but just out on the road, you know okay. So I I'd been in that role for I don't know, seven, eight years. And admittedly there was ⁓ I can Chris Stockton: Patrol officer. Joe Henderson: Tell you the other story that sort of helped lead me there. There's two parts to it. but I had to get off the road. I needed a break from the road. I was becoming angry, and and my boss sort of pulled me and said, Hey, look, you know, this is what we're seeing. So I ended up going with driver training, just training recruits and stuff like that. And anyway, that's where one of my colleagues as well had noticed. So I'd been there about two years. And he'd noticed the the changes. Anyway, then we'd had a change of boss. And unfortunately, that area didn't have a good name. just for what some people had pushed the boundaries in regards to what they could do and what they couldn't do, right? So it left a bit of a bad name. Anyway, so he came in to clean it up or whatever. And for some reason I ended up with a target on my back. And I didn't understand why. But I was like, okay. He one of my colleagues just sort of pulled me aside and said, Hey, just letting you know, mate, like he's he's looking at you for some reason. I'm just giving you a heads up. I'm like, okay, no dramas. Anyway. And me being in that state, I was like, you know what? F you. So I walked into his office, closed the door, said, I hear you've got a problem with me. He's like, Well, hold on a minute. Like I said, no, no. I said, if you've got something to say to me, let's just get it out, let's air it. Let's go. I mean, don't bit around the bush. I'm right here in front of you. Anyway, he wouldn't do it. But I th that was someone I wasn't, right? I wasn't one of those people walk in and confront the boss and do all that sort of thing. So I was sort of teetering on the edge, but I still didn't see it. Anyway, so it got quite aggressive in in the office. I went home that night and thought about everything. I was like, wow, that's not me. I like I would never do that. So I was like, okay, when I go into work tomorrow, go in and see him, apologize, say, look, you know, whatever, I've got a lot going on, whatever it is. So I turned up to work the next day, walk in and ⁓ sat down and then went to apologize. I couldn't talk. could not physically get the words out. And then tears streaming from my face. And then I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? Like who is this person? Like what is going on? Like I have no reason to be sitting here like this. And it was like it was like, you know, eight years, nine years of policing had just started streaming out of me. And I'm What what is going on? Like I just don't understand. I don't know why I'm like this. I have never been like this. Anyway, I was there for probably half an hour and he he just sort of said to me, Look, he said, You've got to go home. Go home, take some time, go and see the doctor. Just go and take some time. And ⁓ so I ended up going to the doctor, but that ended up being my last shift. That was it. Chris Stockton: ⁓ wow. Joe Henderson: Never returned. So that's how quickly it can creep up on you. Chris Stockton: So doing Did they fire you or did the doctor release you from doing it? Joe Henderson: No, so basically he put a report together and that was submitted to the QPS here. And then obviously over certain amount of time, yeah, that you get a certain amount of time obviously to go, okay, can I come back or whatever? Like what where am I sitting? ⁓ and then basically they ended up ringing me and just said, Look, you know, we've got a letter here from your GP basically saying don't think you're gonna be able to return. ⁓ Chris Stockton: Roger. Joe Henderson: And you need to make a decision. You know, like basically I can walk away from the job, or I they will medically retire me, or I'll get forced out. Yeah, that was it. That was the phone call. I'm like, ⁓ thanks for you know, 10 years of my life, you know, like I'm glad it means that much to you guys. ⁓ and and that's how quickly it happened. Like before you know it I was I was out. Right. But that even then, that was still another seven, eight months before that was finalized. So but yeah look I mean I mean I I'm not that person now obviously I've left the job and and I've done a lot of work on myself mate like a lot of work and just offloaded all the weight that I was carrying ⁓ to get that freedom of myself back again. You know, I can laugh freely now. I and it's a genuine laugh, you know, like whereas before everything was fake. You know, so I mean we all fall into that at some point. You know, because we've got a mask on and that's how we deal with things. ⁓ but yeah, I'm back to genuine. Chris Stockton: Yeah. You know, and that that's the funny thing is the the jobs that we're in was as as first responders i is it it's it's sneaky like we were saying earlier because at the at first it gives us a purpose, you know, and then it gives you the pride that you feel and then it gives you a place to belong. But as you just said, if you're not careful and you don't start taking care of yourself or realizing it, ⁓ you're you're gonna wake up and not know who you are or what you are. Joe Henderson: Yeah, massively mate. Massively. Chris Stockton: minutes and I'm sorry to hear that s that happened to you, but at least it sounds like you're doing a hell of a lot better. Joe Henderson: ⁓ I mean look, we all walk our walk, right? We never understand why until later. So I know why now. I needed to learn some lessons out of that. Right. But I don't want to see other people get to that point. And I mean, we've got people who are committing suicide. I don't know what the what it's like over there for in the US, but we've we've got coppers that are taking their life, you know. Chris Stockton: Wanna say it's one every forty five minutes. Joe Henderson: Are you kidding me? Chris Stockton: But I I wanna say it is So right now it's about eighteen per one hundred thousand firefighters committing suicide, seventeen per hundred thousand law enforcement, and then the general population is thirteen point five per one hundred thousand. Joe Henderson: So that's the those numbers there, they say it all. Chris Stockton: Yeah. I i i i it it's sad. The ⁓ first first responder breakdown of it is among first reported can't speak among first reported first responders suicides, law enforcement officers account for approximately fifty eight percent, firefighters twenty one percent, EMS eighteen, and then of course dispatchers at two percent. And that that that's the it's uncalled for, you know. I and and I guess on that note too is so before you realized all this, how how was your normal day how how was it on a normal day for you when you got home? Joe Henderson: I mean look, it's hard to look my obviously my relationship wasn't great either. ⁓ so we had some struggles there, but it it exacerbated everything. Right? So I was I was hard to be around. ⁓ she wasn't happy either, so therefore things just exacerbated on top of itself. ⁓ But ⁓ mate, I'd I'd get home and I just didn't want to be around anyone. I just wanted some time away from people. And that wasn't me. You know, like I enjoy being around people, I enjoy socializing. But you know, and she'd be like, ⁓ we've got this event coming up and we've got this, and I'm like, No, I'm not going. No. Just don't want to be around people. Chris Stockton: So looking that up as we're s as you're speaking, so there is one suicide every eleven minutes for the general population in the US. And then there's one suicide every two to three days for first responders. Joe Henderson: Wow. Chris Stockton: Which still is outrageous. Joe Henderson: Yeah, that that is. But the yeah, the the me for me, the the number that you said earlier has more of a weight to it. When you look at it from a hundred thousand perspective, I'm sorry, because there's a lot less obviously emergency service workers than what there is to general population. But you look at you look at that stat, that's massive. Chris Stockton: It does. Very true. It is. It it very much is. Joe Henderson: So Chris Stockton: And you know, the problem is, is like you said, when you went to your your ch ⁓ I would believe you had a chief. I'm not sure how y'all's hierarchy works over there, but when you went to your chief and you let him know they pretty much gave you the option like, Look, you're done You know. Joe Henderson: ⁓ yeah, they look ⁓ no, I that was a f just a phone call. That was like honestly I was at home. Chris Stockton: Right. But but the thing is is you know, once you have or let them know you're having an issue with your mental health, it it seems like our fields either let you s you know, you have a certain amount of time, like you said, or you're done. And that sh to me is kind of backwards again worldwide, because we should be helping the ones that are helping everybody else. We shouldn't be making make that decision, hey, fix yourself, then come back to work or Joe Henderson: You know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Chris Stockton: Don't fix yourself and don't come back to work. Joe Henderson: Well, there was a running joke, even when I was in generals, to be honest, that it and it came from a boss that I had at the time at the station, and she said, You need to get on happy pills. That's how everyone survives. And I was like, That's not me. I am not taking anything to try and keep myself happy. That's not who I am. Chris Stockton: What's the point? Joe Henderson: I'm very I'm very anti taking drugs and whatever, right? Even if it's just to try and level you out. Even after I left the job, they were trying to get me on antidepressants. I was like, no, I don't want ⁓ I want to know how I feel. I said if you're gonna mask it, how do I know what helps? How do I know what doesn't help? So maybe a little bit of stubbornness in there. Chris Stockton: Right. I I get that. But at the same time, again, you know, it's it's one of them like we were talking about before the the show is it's a double edged sword on that, you know. You either choose your own well being or you choose the job. And the problem with that is if you choose your own well being you ain't got a job no more. Well, if you choose your job, you're not gonna be here no more. Joe Henderson: Yeah. No. No, that's right. Look, y you'll get churned up and burned. It's just it's what it is. Chris Stockton: Right. And i i i it's it's completely fucked up. It it really is. ⁓ I actually we talked to a doctor yesterday, ⁓ and I like how he put it is the way we are taught, like you were saying about the pharmaceuticals, is this'll help you, but if you look at the actual science of it, how is it actually helping you? You know, you can learn other ways of Joe Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Chris Stockton: redoing your neural pathways to not be depressed without the medication. Joe Henderson: Yeah, hundred percent. Hundred percent. You know, and I Chris Stockton: As a disclaimer here, people do need them, yes. Just I I know that people, so don't don't come after me. Joe Henderson: Yeah, yeah, look, and and there are there are some people who do. And that's to help them get out of that that heavy state that they're in at the time. But I was a big believer that no, I can find myself out of here. I don't need medication to do it. And I live by that. But Chris Stockton: Right. I'm not sure how it is over in Australia, but here in America, the pharmaceuticals run the company. I mean I mean the country. They they really do. Joe Henderson: Yeah, look, I mean we see it a bit here as well though. Our doctors obviously you know very quick to hand out anything and everything. ⁓ you know, it it just comes down to the person. But I've always been very much like, No, look, my body's giving me everything. I'm still here. There's a reason why I can function. I don't need medications to try and help me function. So Chris Stockton: True. And, you know, even on that, you know, we can always going back to the job part of it, we can always, you know, clear the calls, clean the cars, do our reports for God fixes, but still carry every damn thing we have in our job into our own damn living div living lives. You know, and that's the part that the outside eye of our jobs don't see. And I hate to say it, but every therapist I've seen for anything, they honestly don't have a Joe Henderson: Yeah. Chris Stockton: Fucking clue on what I'm talking about because I've never lived it. Joe Henderson: And this is the exact thing, like I've actually put something together to help emergency services as well, just to be able to manage because of the fact that the timeline in the job now realistically is not long. And if I mean even from a government perspective, that's very costly because there's a lot of money that goes into training. There's a lot of money to, you know what I mean? Like there's a there's a lot of money spent. So why are they not putting something together to hold you there and maintain and get you some longevity out of the job? It's more beneficial for them to have that little bit of money because otherwise they're just wasting the money and losing the money they've just put into all your training. So I've got I've got something that I've put together ⁓ to help emergency services prolong their career. Chris Stockton: ⁓ that's awesome. Joe Henderson: And it's just opening their eyes up to what they're going to be walking into and how they can manage it and how they can separate home life and get longevity out of their home life as well. Because that was the one thing that I didn't I couldn't disconnect. And we spoke about it before, you know, you you end a shift, you could have a really traumatic shift. Where's that where's that ability or that time to separate your shift? and that all that trauma before walking in the in the door to your family. Without going to the pub and hitting the beers and doing all that sort of thing, because that's not gonna help you. Chris Stockton: No, not at all. Joe Henderson: So yeah, that's that's that's a hundred percent it. So ⁓ I mean look, I'll I'll tell you that the story around there's two parts to it that helped send me over. so my best mate was in the job as well. And so if you look, I mean I knew him through high school. Chris Stockton: Gonna make it worse. Yes, sir. Joe Henderson: And then we basically became good at the hip once we left finished high school, right? Like my parents used to call him my girlfriend. That's how close we were. It was hilarious. Yeah. and funnily enough, I've never had a mate like that since. So but he was in the job as well. We're both, you know, just he was in a different area to me, so we didn't really Chris Stockton: That's awesome. Joe Henderson: get to catch up too often. But so he rang me for my birthday. And it was a religious thing. We always did it was to you know take the piss or whatever we do. And so he's on the phone. He was doing a a wide load special which is basically he's escorting a truck that's got an oversized load ⁓ to get to its destination. And He's on a police bike. Anyway, so he's we're talking away. Yeah, happy birthday, rah rah. ⁓ and then says, ⁓ mate, also I said, I've got some great news for you, I've got some news for you. He said, ⁓ I'm gonna be a dad. And I was like, Holy shit, no way, like, yeah, this is this is something that he's wanted for years. I'd n I'd known that, he's always wanted a family. Chris Stockton: Congratulations. Joe Henderson: And thirty seconds later, I hear ⁓ phu. Chris Stockton: ⁓ shit. Joe Henderson: Call's dead. I'm like, shit, okay. So and I mean I've spoken to him doing these plenty of times before where you said to jump off the phone quickly to, you know, deal with something, do whatever. You know, it's just it was always something happening. And ⁓ anyway, I I tried yeah, I tried calling back a couple of times, went straight to voicemail. So I'm like, Okay, he's definitely dealing with something. And ⁓ Chris Stockton: Right, good example. Joe Henderson: So in the meantime I've rung his wife, who was a copper as well. And you know, congratulating her, like great news, everything else. ⁓ you know, we got into a full blown conversation. And then at near the end of it, I'm like, Hey, I said, look, I said, don't want to alarm you. I said, but yeah, have you heard from Dan this morning? She's like, No, I haven't. Like usually I would have heard from him by now. Like he always gives me a phone call around a certain time. And I said, okay, I said, look, I said, ⁓ I I don't want to alarm you, but this is what I got at the end of the phone call. I said, so when you hear from him, can you get him to give me a call so I know that everything's okay? She's like, yep, no no dramas at all, right? Anyway, as I finish saying that, she goes, ⁓ I've got to go to the boss's office. They want me in the boss's office. She goes, Look, it's she said, I've I've got a massive workload. She said, so it's probably something to do with my workload. I'm like, okay. I said, no, no problem. I said, but look, I'll talk soon. Course she's getting taken to the boss's office to be told what's happened. Not even look probably two minutes after I got off the phone. My partner at the time, who is the my boy's mum, ⁓ rang me. She said, ⁓ how far from home are you? I said, ⁓ look, five minutes. She's ⁓ a couple of colleagues, a couple of your workmates are here to see ya. Because I was on leave at the time. And ⁓ like, Yeah, yeah, no drums, I'll get home and walk in the door and my sergeant's there and and one of my work colleagues. And my sergeant knew Dan and knew how close I was with him. And he said, Mate, I've got to get you to I've got to get you to sit down. He said, I've got something to tell ya. And I'm still not registering. Right? I'm just like, I'm in mode, like nothing's ever gonna happen to him. He's not you know what I mean? And ⁓ he just said, Mate, said Dan was killed this morning. Now I don't remember this part, I got told afterwards, and I remember But I went to punch him when he told me. But I don't remember any of it. And then, yeah, and then they've grabbed me and held me on the ground and to point I could sort of calm down and let everything register or whatever. ⁓ and ⁓ the weird thing is as well, they had no idea that I was on the phone with him. So my partner said to him, Hey, look, what time did it happen? Chris Stockton: ⁓ damn. Right, you that the most talk. Joe Henderson: And he said, look, you seven o'clock or whatever. She goes, he was on the phone with him when it happened. And he's like, no fucking way. Anyway, he's walked out straight on the phone, like, this is what's going on. Rah. Anyway, look, don't get me wrong, they they were good because they were trying to stay by me at the time as well. Chris Stockton: Mm. Joe Henderson: But yeah, that was that was a lot. That was a lot. ⁓ that hit me hard, that one. anyway, I ended up off work for a a little bit after that. That mentally sort of messed me up a bit. And I was struggling to just be back around people and especially I mean we call them crubs here. ⁓ yeah, especially be around that that grubby sector of community again where you're having to police ⁓ and, you know. Tell them they can't hit their wives and all that sort of shit. And ⁓ anyway, so I was away from that for a bit. And then I returned back to work and then they put me with a guy who was very calm and could just sort of watch over me and just see how I was handling stuff. And I remember going to a job and it was just a neighborhood dispute, just stupid shit. Anyway, we're standing at the bottom of the stairs, and I'm talking to an old matey up the top of the stairs. And he goes, Why don't you just go, fuck off, you white so-and-so, rah-rah, rah. Anyway, in my head, I was like, How are you still here when someone so good has just been taken? You don't deserve to be here. Chris Stockton: Wait them. Joe Henderson: And I went to go barreling up those stairs. I was gonna throw him down the stairs. And my colleague saw, must have seen the the look on my face or whatever. And he grabbed me and he goes, I've got this. Go and sit in the car. I went, ooh. And he's like, No, that's why you need to go and sit in the car. I've got this. Just go and chill out. I'll see you in the car. Anyway, lucky he did, because that would have ended badly. So anyway, so then you know it's probably ⁓ it would have been fifteen, sixteen months after I lost him. Chris Stockton: Yeah, imagine. Joe Henderson: I was doing a ⁓ a special as well, but it was ⁓ just a road work special, you know, just to slow traffic down and manage everything. And we had a call of a stolen car come over the radio and that it was it had just been stolen. So they had no idea that it had been reported. So we had a supervisor who was following the car in a marked police car. But no lights or anything, right? Just driving along at a little bit of a distance and calling over the radio where they were, and it was heading in our direction. So we've sort of stopped traffic and set it up in a way that they had to stop. And funnily enough, it we did got it to stop. There was no incident at all. And then they must have clued on or whatever. And Drove the car straight at me. And ⁓ I like I all I remember is I heard the car rev up. I remember looking at the driver and then the car coming straight at me, and then I don't remember anything else. ⁓ and all I remember is getting up off the road afterwards. So there's like a good, I don't know, maybe five seconds. Five to ten seconds that I don't recall, and I still to this day I can't recall it. My brain's just gone, no, you don't re you don't need to remember this. but my partner at the time as well, while I was in the air, has put a round into the car as well. So anyway, the car's taken off. They they eventually found the car and they eventually got fingerprints and everything and and got them. ⁓ but at that moment afterwards, because obviously it's a critical incident, fired the gun's been fired, all that sort of thing. So then we're separated, sitting on the gutter, waiting for whatever. In that moment, I'm like, I just about left my boys in the same position the damn son is in. What the fuck am I doing? Chris Stockton: But that hit hard as hell. Joe Henderson: ⁓ mate, like and that I I couldn't let that go. That was there. So ⁓ yeah, like my my partner that was there at the time as well, he goes, but he said, All I saw was your fluoro vest go flying. He said, I thought you were gone. He said, That's all I saw. He said, and then I then I put the round into the car. Chris Stockton: Damn. Damn. Joe Henderson: So it ⁓ but that was that was the compounding factor then. Right? So I mean everything sort of, you know, we talk about it gradually builds up on you and you don't even see it coming. So that there was the compounding factor. And then that sat on me and I struggled with that for a little while. ⁓ you know, I came back to work and you know, he was an Aboriginal driver of the car. And so I just had a beeline for Aboriginals that we were dealing with in the uniform. Yeah. I was just like full like that's it. ⁓ unfortunately, like and that's not me, I'm not a racist person either. So ⁓ it was just that incident that turned it on me. Chris Stockton: then that's that kind of brings up something you wrote on your forum is you know, people show this stuff inside, they withdraw, they disconnect, keep it themselves, and then they self employ, like you were just saying. You know, it it's not a dramatic, it's not normal, ⁓ but that's exactly the problem, is we we we hold it inside, we withdraw and and like you were just saying, you become someone you're not. You weren't racist, you're not racist. But the mind makes you do things that you don't realize you're doing, you know. And you'll start withdrawing even more after that. Joe Henderson: ⁓ massively. Yeah, this is what I I said as well. Yeah, like we our body will react before we'll even notice it. Right, because it you go into flight or flight or safety mode, right? And and the body like I said, ⁓ that whole incident, like I should have been able to remember that, but my brain went, No, you don't need to And that whole clip it and I I can't tell you how many times I've tried to recall that and I just can't. Chris Stockton: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, and and and that's when that sympathetic nervous system kicks in is even when you're not trying to make it, you know. Joe Henderson: Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And Chris Stockton: So, you know, on that note of things, d I know you were saying you're started becoming disconnected after that. So what did that disconnection look like? Joe Henderson: ⁓ mate, just withdraw. Withdraw more than anything. Emotionally I was withdrawn. ⁓ just the only way that I can describe it really is just becoming a shell of a person. Like I was physically there, but internally, internally I was not there. Spiritually, not there. I was just a shell. Chris Stockton: Gotcha. But mentally not. Joe Henderson: That's how much it affects. And that's why so many relationships fall apart. That's why so many families get torn apart. That's why people end up suiciding. Right? Because they completely lose themselves. You're just functioning on a day-to-day basis. That's not healthy for anyone. I don't care who you are. We aren't robots. Chris Stockton: Very true. And Joe Henderson: So that that is the unfortunate part. Chris Stockton: So I guess on that side of things too is what could someone's partner, spouse, family, ⁓ something like that start looking for, you know, to notice they're starting to slip away. Joe Henderson: Look for me I I would say that as soon as they're starting to withdraw more than what they would normally. If people are withdrawing, then you've got to start looking at what is actually going on, why they're withdrawing. Right. Especially from social events and stuff like that. Or, you know, they're wanting to go and you know, drink more often because they're just trying to drink away whatever's going on and whatever they're carrying. Because everything becomes a build-up, right? So we can go and I mean th they say the the straw that broke the camel's back. You can have some small tedious jobs that all of a sudden it becomes too much. Yet that's a job that you've gone to a thousand times. But it's nothing to do with that actual job, it's everything else that is built up prior to that, that you're still holding on to. So I mean, if you're a partner of someone who's who's facing this, the biggest thing is identifying that there's a change early and go, Okay, what's what's happening? I mean they're still probably not gonna open up. But as long as you as long as you identify it Chris Stockton: Right, of course. Joe Henderson: and say, hey, you know, this is what I'm noticing. Is there anything I can help you with? You know, like I notice you're not sleeping anymore. I notice you're not, you know, you you you're drinking, but we're not doing anything anymore. I notice you've you're disconnected ⁓ from me and the kids and you know like that's that's not normally you then you need to start looking to get some help. That's the easiest way. You've got to be you've got to be sort of honest. at the same time with with what you're seeing. Chris Stockton: Yeah. And like you said, that that i it makes a hundred percent of sense as well as y you know, you can't You can't fix it until you notice it. Joe Henderson: Yeah. And unfortunately because we're living it, we don't notice it. Right? And that's the problem that we all fall in. Chris Stockton: Exactly. And and you won't go to something unless you're looking for it. That's the other thing too. You know, you got y you you have to you have to actually actively be looking for it. You can't Joe Henderson: What's that, sorry? Yeah, and because we're not looking for it, we never notice the difference. Right? But because other people around you are feeling the difference. They feel the change because you are distant or not there. They feel it and then they'll identify it. before we'll even notice a thing because it's just a daily routine that has crept up gradually on us. Chris Stockton: And that's where it starts eating you alive. Joe Henderson: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, because it's gradual. You know what I mean? Like if it was a sharp impact, like you've gone from being this you know jovial ⁓ social person to the next day, ⁓ bang, that's it, I'm not, you would notice it straight away. Right? But because it it is gradual and it happens after day after day after day, and it's just a small piece at a time, we never notice it. Chris Stockton: So one thing you did write down too is ⁓ you wrote the listener needs to hear that their identity doesn't match their job. That line matters, you know, because this field trains people for chaos. but but not for what happens when the chaos becomes the only place that we feel alive or that we feel valid. ⁓ like you just that that everyday living it it it should not be you living in an everyday chaos Joe Henderson: Yeah. Chris Stockton: of your sympathetic nervous system being on twenty four seven. You should be able to relax, you should be able to deal with your family. You should be able to, you know, not live this goddamn job. Joe Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Well I mean look we end up with adrenal fatigue as well, right? Because and that has an impact on the body as well. Chris Stockton: think about that one. That's a good point. Joe Henderson: ⁓ yeah, adrenal fatigue. Right. So there's a that's a natural thing that our body produces. But if you wear a my mine's gone. Mine like I I try and do things now to push the limit to try and get that adrenaline rush. It doesn't work anymore. At all. Yeah, like I I ride motorbikes and stuff as well. So I go for a good, you know, stint up a mountain and stuff like that. Just don't feel that adrenaline. Chris Stockton: Really? Damn. Joe Henderson: Yeah, and I can be pushing the I can be pushing the limit and still not feel out of drone like. Yeah. So th that's something else that we've got to be aware of. The just the natural impacts on the body itself. You you start wearing some of these body parts out, you will function very, very differently. Chris Stockton: ⁓ yeah knees feel Joe Henderson: There you go. So yeah, there's there's so many different impacts. So many different Chris Stockton: So if someone starts to notice this and then they start getting trying to get better, how do you recommend them go about rebuilding themselves? Joe Henderson: Okay, so my strategy was because I was very anti medication, mine was about stripping my life back. Right? So basically stripping everything back and rebuilding from the from the ground up. So I wanted to know what was good for me, what wasn't good for me, whatever wasn't good for me, people, you know, places, anything, I'd strip that back. Went okay, yeah. You sort of work out okay, who's who's hanging on to me for the wrong reasons as well, right? And then sort of holding me in a place that I didn't want to be anymore. So I would gradually then hold them at a distance because I needed to feel better for myself, right? So I don't need someone else that's holding me in a place either. So sometimes you have to some strip some people back out of your life as well. So That's what I did. I went, okay, who works for me, what works for me, what doesn't work for me, who's just a bit of a dead weight that is holding me in a place that I don't want to be anymore. Then I culled them back or or I let them go completely. So that's the only way to do it. You've got to strip your life back and go, okay, what's important to me now? Right, because we live, we grow, things change, our life changes, we change. But then I had to go, okay, what is important to me now? What makes me feel alive? Going on motorbike rides is my freedom. Chris Stockton: That's awesome. Joe Henderson: But also is, you know, my boys, my boys are a huge part of my life. And they're a massive driver for me. So everything was about how do I become the best version of myself again for them. Because I wasn't they weren't seeing the best version of me. I wasn't a great role role model for them as a father when I was in that that state. So how do I get me back again to be able to give them that version and be that leader and that role? That's what I went for. Chris Stockton: awesome. And and that kinda brings me to my next point here is your work now, you know, connects fatherhood to becoming a better man outside the job. And that what you just pretty much you just said it, you know, that matters because the field can make you dependable to strangers and unavailable to people who actually need you at home. Like your like your boys or my daughters and my son. You know, i it and that it's We all have to be better for ourselves, be better for our families. Joe Henderson: Yeah. A hundred percent. But with with the you know, the family dynamics lately and and I've heard that the US is the same, families are breaking apart so much these days. Right. And then you've got all these kids that are ending up fatherless or you know, fathers are at a distance now. The the impact on our kids shows through their behaviour, especially when they become young adults, right? And and that doesn't matter whether they're boys or girls, it it affects both. So I see that and I look at you know my my boys as well. Funnily enough, how everything came up for them, like I I was hiding the fact that I was had been let go from the police, right? Yeah, yeah, from them because because they were still young, right? They were in primary school at the time. Chris Stockton: ⁓ wow. Right, right, right. Joe Henderson: And it they you know, I saw them as okay, they look up to me because I'm a I'm in the police, you know, I'm the hero, I'm dad, I you know, rah rah rah. And ⁓ so I'd hid all of that. I I didn't say anything about it. And it wasn't until my eldest boy who was doing a an assignment for school, he was talking about it was all about dogs or pets, but I think it was more predominantly dogs. And how they help people. And he went down the route of you know, police dogs and searching dogs, and all of this sort of thing, companion dogs, like for PTSD. He went right down this whole like rabbit hole, and he ended up saying to me, because we were talking about something, he said, Dad, do you have PTSD? And I was like, Holy shit, where is this come from? And it made me go, you know what? Now's the right time to probably have this conversation. So I had the conversation with him first and just said, Righto, I'm just gonna let you know, yes, I do. I'm not in the police anymore. ⁓ I am suffering from PTSD. That was the reason why I'm not in the job anymore. And mate, can I tell you that was the most freeing moment in me and my boy's life? Chris Stockton: I bet. I bet that was a big relief of of pressure and and stress and all of it really. Joe Henderson: Well man, like I've And it changed our relationship straight away. Chris Stockton: That's awesome. Joe Henderson: And I mean for a positive. I was honest with them. I was open with them. I'm like, hey, you know, life's gonna throw you, you know, things that you don't expect to happen. But you just gotta, it's about how you get up from it and how you deal with it. And I've been that way with them ever since. You know. I don't don't wrap them in cotton wool. We talk about everything. Like, hey, yep, this stuff can happen. How would you deal with it? And they're t two very level headed boys. One's now, yeah, nearly seventeen and the other one's eighteen. Chris Stockton: ⁓ wow. I'm not there with you but with girls. I eighteen, seventeen and an eight year old, so Yay. Anyway. Joe Henderson: Yeah. ⁓ Chris Stockton: ⁓ so what does being a better dad mean to you now? I know you kinda covered it. Joe Henderson: look there's so many elements to it. But the biggest thing in regards to being a better dad is Not carrying your weight of life and projecting it onto your kids. You can teach, you can teach your kids about what life is, but without projecting everything that you've gone through onto them, right? So so no different to you know say. Say I'm scared of motorbikes, right? As a parent. And I've been in a motorbike accident. And you know, I'm gonna project all of this stuff onto my kids. No, you're not gonna ride a motorbike, they're dangerous, they're this, they're this, they're this, rah-r-h-rah. Your kids need to find who they are. If we are projecting our bullshit and our history onto them, you are not allowing them to find themselves. Us as parents are there to help guide them. A lot of kids need to learn from mistakes, unfortunately. Right? Chris Stockton: True. I mean, back when I was a kid I had learned from my mistakes. Joe Henderson: That was that was how I grew up as well. And I had a real I had a really stern father. So Chris Stockton: Yeah, had a had a military father, so yeah. Joe Henderson: Yep. And that's, you know, like that's it's how it was, right? That's how life was back then. But today is very different. And I'm I'm more about, okay, I'm educating my boys on how to be a better man, especially in today's society. Right. So give I'll give you an example of something. So obviously as a copper I saw so much, right? So yeah, my boys were coming of age where they were going to start going to parties and stuff like that. And I told them a story around a girl, she was attempting suicide, and then I found out the story as to why that was. I said she had been raped at 14 years of age, and she had been in a hospital to try and help her deal with that. And had been released back to her home with her mum. And on the back deck, she has decided to slice her wrists up. And when we got there, there was a pool of blood all over the table. And we got her, we got there, got her saved, got the ambos there, and then off to the hospital. But I said to the both of them, I said, there's a story in this for you. Because you guys are going to be coming to an age where you're going to be at parties, and you may see a girl who is still young and has drunk too much and has no idea of what her capacity is and will have no idea what the environment is that she's around and who might take advantage of her. You are going to see boys who are going to drink too much. and lose their control over what they're doing. Said, do not ever be a bystander. I said, because if you wake up the next day and you find out that a girl that you know from the party has been raped by someone at that party and you could have done something about it, that'll weigh on you. I said, do not ever be a bystander to anything. So funnily enough, I know some parents of a girl who Chris Stockton: ⁓ I bet. Joe Henderson: frequents parties that my oldest boy goes to and they were commenting that he looks out for all the girls. Chris Stockton: ⁓ that's cool. I bet you're proud right there. Joe Henderson: ⁓ man, like some of the comments that I've heard come back have been, you know, like holy shit, I've done something right. Chris Stockton: That's fucking awesome. I bet you were a proud dad. Joe Henderson: You know. Yeah. And I mean he's a big he's a big kid too. Like I'm not talking like as big and heavy. I mean he's he's a muscle unit. Yeah. So people are scared of him. And yet he's one of the nicest guys around. But he's seen his actual he told me he saw his actual mates from school who were lurking around this girl who had obviously had too much to drink. And then she was getting up to go to the toilet. And two of his mates started to follow her and he grabbed him, he said, No, you're not. Go and sit down. And he followed her to the bathroom, stood outside the door, waited for her to finish, come out, and just made sure she went back out in front of everyone. So he said, Yeah, he said he said, and those those are mates of mine that have obviously had too much to drink, he said, but it just didn't it wasn't comfortable. I was like, There you go. So that's what I mean, right? But the being a better dad now is about not projecting your shit onto them, but teaching them. Especially today's age where they've got access to so much. So we've got to teach them, okay, if you're in this position, like just don't be a stand ⁓ don't just stand by and watch. It's it's the impact of something you might think is small and you walking away from something can be catastrophic. So just ⁓ massive. Chris Stockton: Bob effect. Joe Henderson: Yeah, and and my biggest thing as well is is just making sure you're present. Because I've been in that position where I haven't been. Like I said, I was a shell of a person. Yeah, I might have been physically there, but I was nowhere to be seen. Right? So presence is huge. It's it's takes nothing for you know, if your kid comes, ⁓ come and play. Yeah, come and come and hit the ball with me or throw the ball with me or something just for you know, just wanna all it takes is ten minutes. Chris Stockton: Right. That's it. Joe Henderson: They don't want they don't want, you know, hours but just give them ten, fifteen, twenty minutes. They just wanna know that you're there. So Chris Stockton: But that's sometimes the biggest thing. And you know, it you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I I I have a feeling that once you got better with your sons, that your spousal relationships or girlfriends probably got better in the end as well. Joe Henderson: ⁓ mate, everything has a flow-on effect. Hundred percent. Yeah, I mean admittedly though, I I mean I was single for 13 years. Yeah. So I made sure because my boys were my priority and I didn't want a negative ⁓ influence around them. Because I was like very much okay, I want my boys to grow up with these qualities, I want them to have an understanding. And if anyone was around that I thought was, hold on, you're a bit of a negative, like you don't eat well, you know, you don't look after yourself, you don't, then I didn't want them around them. Because that rubs off onto them. So, you know, I'm with someone now, and we've been together for ⁓ two years. And she's great with them, you know, supports them, like, yeah, gives them advice around food and this and that and the other as well. Like, you know, there's it it's very well balanced. But it it's huge to make sure that you know you've got that connection there with ⁓ Chris Stockton: So what about the people who say to themselves, you know, that there's nothing after the job? Joe Henderson: ⁓ there is there is stuff after the job. But you have to strip your life back because your your identity is very, very different. You need to find yourself again. Whatever that looks like for you, everyone's different. It could be could be having a hobby that is, you know, bird watch, it could be whatever it is, it doesn't matter what it is, photography, something that just soothes you but makes you feel good and brings you back to you. Chris Stockton: That's awesome. ⁓ so ⁓ before I wrap before we wrap up today, ⁓ just want to say something quick 'cause it connects to kind of what we talked about today. ⁓ part of refusing to be swallowed by the job is choosing to grow inside. ⁓ so for me, one of my next steps to do this for myself is I want to go to the University of Florida critical care program. Not just for the patch, not just for titles, ⁓ but because I still want to get better at my field. help my patients and I want to be able to sharpen my own blade without losing myself in the process. ⁓ so anyone listening I'm raising money. ⁓ if you want to donate, please go to the website critical run dot com or critical dash run dot com. Carrier so don't go to that one. ⁓ but it's on there so no pressure, no guilt, just putting it out there for everybody. and then you know for you Joe, I want to ask if someone's listening right now alone tonight or today, ⁓ w what is it that they need to hear from you? Joe Henderson: That your life is not dictated to by your uniform. And it is just a job. If you are gone tomorrow, the world still goes on. So you are the priority and that's the person under the uniform. Take the time, make sure that you're living your best life, you're turning up to that job, they don't care, you're just a payroll number. That's what I found out the hard way. Understand you're a payroll number and it's just a job. Go and do it the best that you can, but make sure that you're looking after number one as a priority. Chris Stockton: Yes, sir. And one more question for you. So if someone wants to follow your work, reach out, learn more about what you do, where can they go to learn that? Joe Henderson: So website is www.better sorry, joe-betterdad.com. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, on YouTube. So there's a few different platforms there. But definitely just send a message and reach out. Chris Stockton: And w where's your book? Is it on your website as well? Joe Henderson: It is on my website. Yeah. I've got a few different books there, but some of them ⁓ yeah. I've got so I even handed it like I I mean I I've got a lot of older school guys that ⁓ I've known and I've handed it to them just to get a bit of a feedback before I've put it out there. And the comments I've got back were like, ⁓ my god, I just saw myself in this book. Like I wish I had have read this earlier. Like this has just smacked me the face. So yeah. Chris Stockton: I've heard that about my book and I I haven't been able to write another one yet. But anyways Joe Henderson: Yeah. No, I'm I'm very quick to go, right, okay, I've got this. Right. There's also another element here, but I'm not covering it in this book, so I want to put it in the next one. So yeah. Chris Stockton: I'm not very organized with that stuff. So this has Dispenses of Functional. Today's conversation was about identity, fatherhood, the weight we carry home, and the hard truth that you can cut you can love the job and still refuse to let it become your entire life. Remember, you're not the job, you're not your worst calls, you're not your goddamn uniform. And you are not weak because you finally admit the weight finally got heavy. Reach out to somebody, reach out to anybody. Here in the US, nine eighty eight is a good suicide line. ⁓ I'm not sure about Australia. But guys make sure no reach out. Right. Let me go ahead and hit stop. Stop. Joe Henderson: Yeah. We've got we've got different support lines.