Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #371 - For Azeroth!: “How to Kill HYPE"

Transcript

#371 - For Azeroth!: “How to Kill HYPE" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
I am on my knees begging you do this for every pre patch event.
0:06
This is perfect. Victory for the Forsaken.
0:11
For Lauderon. For the Kieran Tour.
0:15
For Pandaria. For.
0:19
Calendar to. The burning region for Gilnaeus,
0:24
but has not died, for the Lich King, for the Sindori.
0:32
For the Alliance, for the. Horn for Azeroth.
0:40
Hello. And welcome back to another
0:42
episode of For Azeroth. I am one of your hosts, Manny,
0:46
AKA the Truvo Manny. And we have pantominding in the
0:49
corner. Elect rants.
0:51
Was talking to my dog. Oh, she's doing very good.
0:55
She was very crazy. It was finally warm enough to
0:57
take her for a long walk today, which was a miracle.
1:01
But it did mean that we got home from our second long walk of the
1:03
day. And she was like, I want to play
1:06
forever. It's time to play forever.
1:08
And I said, no, baby, you need to take a nap.
1:10
I know you and I know right now what you need to do is take a
1:12
nap. And she said, no, what I need to
1:13
do is tear holes in the carpet. So we had to have a little
1:18
conversation about what is and it's not appropriate behavior in
1:21
the house. But then she took a nap.
1:22
And I mean, this is going to blow your mind.
1:23
She really needs to take a nap. What?
1:26
Right, Lex knows best. Also, the other voice that
1:31
you're hearing, and I don't want to keep you out of the
1:33
conversation too long, is Sean. Hello, Sean, How are you?
1:37
I'm manning my teacup matches my hoodie tonight.
1:42
No, they're both teal. I really thought that was the
1:45
white teacup and the hoodie was reflecting off of it.
1:47
And I was about to, like, explain color theory to you, and
1:50
then that makes sense. Yeah.
1:53
Well, it's also got the white interior, which matches the
1:55
white of the Honda symbol and the text.
1:58
So it's it's really, really matching.
1:59
There you go. Yeah, I'm all lined up.
2:03
OK. So John, you're coordinated.
2:05
And I guess that kind of touches on the first little bit of news
2:08
that we have today for all of you who were left in clown suits
2:14
from the new change over to transmog, if you log into the
2:17
game recently, you should have noticed that you can now get one
2:21
free outfit transmog per character.
2:27
Now there are some bugs that were reported about it, one
2:31
being that even if it is technically free, you would
2:35
still need the gold in your character's bag to cover it or
2:39
in the war bank. It is still free though, and it
2:42
is something that you can hold off using.
2:44
When you do actually set up your transmog, it will say, do you
2:49
want to use your free change or do you want to use the gold?
2:53
That's good because there was like a little change that I
2:56
wanted to do to my current transmog, like one or two items
2:59
and I didn't want to use my free one on that.
3:02
And I really love that they've put it in.
3:03
It also means that this is something that they could do
3:07
later on. It's just like a hey guys, we
3:09
had an issue. Everybody gets a free transmog
3:12
sort of thing, like it's actual UI setup and stuff for it.
3:17
So that seems a little bit more forward thinking.
3:19
My boost to level like that every expansion basically at
3:22
this point they give you a boost and I have like 3 just sitting
3:26
there. This is going to be me and my
3:27
Transmox. I'm just going to have it like
3:28
stacked up like every error they do.
3:30
They're like, here's another free transmog on 50 in the bank.
3:33
I'd like to see them offer it every time maintenance is
3:36
extended and the crawfish complained online that they
3:40
should have a refund on their game time 'cause they had to
3:42
wait an extra 3 hours to play. I'd like to see Blizzard go.
3:45
You're right, we're sorry. Here's a free trans mug.
3:51
Oh, for. Anybody who's.
3:52
Not. Yeah, for anybody who's not
3:55
familiar, you may hear me use the term crawfish.
3:57
I have stopped, sorry. Previously I would refer to
4:00
angry people online as bots, but I don't think that's fair to the
4:03
bots. And in my head now I've started
4:06
to picture them as crawfish. Tiny little crawfish at the
4:09
bottom of the ocean with little cell phones just angrily tapping
4:12
away with the crawfish fingers. And they're mad at us because
4:14
they know they're going to get boiled and eaten.
4:16
Sean aren't Crawfish River. I have.
4:21
I have no idea. I don't eat insects of the
4:24
ocean. Considering that crawfish are
4:26
used a lot in Louisiana and I don't know that to be ocean.
4:31
Louisiana in the Gulf. Coast in Iowa.
4:33
Hurricane, Iowa. Destroyed it.
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I thought it was like a along the river where they would like
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get up crawfish. And lobsters are oh, I'm gonna.
4:41
Oh, the lobsters. Are definitely.
4:42
Oceanic. All right, well.
4:45
Alexa's looking, I think, these people.
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You're crawfish people, you angry little crawfish.
4:50
OK, so crawfish are freshwater little guys that are common in
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Louisiana. You have spine.
4:56
You have. Yeah, dude, you.
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They're like spine lobsters are sometimes called sea crawfish.
5:02
I'm OK, this is AI. I should be looking at an actual
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thing. But yeah, crawfishers are fresh
5:06
water, you fool. Also, they're cute and they're
5:09
little baby. So the bottom of a riverbed,
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they're just angrily tapping away because it's Mardi Gras and
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they know they're they're about to be eaten.
5:15
It makes sense. Makes sense?
5:18
Did I show you guys that my cup, my tea cup matches my hoodie?
5:21
Yes, I, I mean, I don't know what's the, what's that test
5:27
they did where like there was a bunch of animals in a bucket and
5:31
when one was trying to get away, the other ones would pull the
5:33
animal back down. That's.
5:35
Have I never used the phrase crab bucketing?
5:38
I use that like almost every day in my normal parlance.
5:41
OK. And no, I'm pretty sure.
5:43
OK. Well, yeah, I, I, I think the
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crab. Yeah.
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So, crabby, we're gonna go with crabs.
5:48
I love crabs too. They're also babies.
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Can you guys pick an animal that's not a baby?
5:54
No, no, sorry, but crabs are like pulling everybody down,
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even though they're like people could escape like the the
5:59
sadness at the bottom of the bucket.
6:01
They're like no, be be upset with me.
6:03
And that's what. You're gonna troll.
6:04
It actually is, I guess. We're back to bots so Lex won't
6:08
be mad at us. There's no love lost between me
6:13
and robots. Yeah, call them turtles.
6:16
No love lost between Lex and turtles.
6:19
Oh my God, I love turtles. I don't.
6:22
Understand. Would you say if you had to have
6:25
a chant, if there was like a Lex Ranch chant, would it be
6:27
turtles, Turtles rah rah rah? That you said that in a way that
6:31
makes me think that's a reference to something and I
6:34
don't know what it is and so I'm scared to make it a thing in
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either. Way the turtles chocolates in in
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in the states. It's a Canadian.
6:43
It's a Canadian person from when I was young.
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I love turtles. Yeah.
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Yeah, OK. All right, Canadiana.
6:50
All right. I'll send you a link later.
6:52
Lexi, Yeah. Actually, I guess that kind of
6:56
segues into the next big thing. We got a little bit of an
7:00
announcement. Sean, do you want to talk about
7:02
something a little bit Canadian that we've got to announce?
7:05
Yes, it is officially official. Now we can talk about North Rend
7:12
Live, which is a Canadian Community of Warcraft event that
7:19
is backed by Blizzard. It's not.
7:21
I definitely don't want to sell it as a it's not a Blizzard
7:24
event. Yeah, it's a community event.
7:27
N Rend Live is a community event.
7:28
Pika TV Kess Live, Manny Pika's brother Squirtle and myself.
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Pika had this idea to start this convention.
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He put this team of superheroes together to build it and then
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when we reached out to Blizzard, Blizzard said yeah, we could
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definitely get down to support that.
7:44
So it's a it's a community driven event with Blizzard
7:46
support N Red Live taking place in Toronto, ON on February 21st.
7:52
The doors open at 11:00 AM Eastern Standard Time and I
7:57
think they close at 6:00 PM Nineteen Plus because there will
8:00
be alcohol available on the premises.
8:02
We're going to have void themed entrance.
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We're going to have a housing photo booth and there will be
8:09
imagery of Warcraft along all the walls, as well as a live
8:14
stream event that will be taking place at the venue.
8:16
So live in person at the venue, but it'll be streamed to both
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Pika TV's Twitch channel and the Warcraft Twitch channel with
8:23
lots of giveaways. You're going to see an interview
8:26
by myself with a dev whose name I don't have in front of me, but
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who we do know is a housing dev. I'm so sorry.
8:38
Not Jesse Kerlinchek, but another one.
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It's the only housing dev's name right now.
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And then we're going to have the Raiderio Decor Gala Housing
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competition, which is currently happening right now.
8:51
You can go and vote. There are 20 submissions.
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You can vote for your top six favorite, or just one if you
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only want to vote for one or two or three or whatever, but you
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can vote for up to 6. The six finalists will be judged
9:03
live on stage by a panel for the winner.
9:06
And some of the prizes from that are those Home Sweet home mugs,
9:09
which everybody wants that didn't get when they were
9:12
because they only went to content creators.
9:14
If Manny shows his, I'm going to scream.
9:16
Manny. Manny got one.
9:17
Manny. Manny's got a beautiful one.
9:19
I wish you had just warned me before I showed it.
9:22
And then we will have a faction feud.
9:25
We're going to have our own very own game show faction Feud,
9:28
which is a riff on Family Feud, if you're familiar with that.
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We have a Horde team versus an Alliance team.
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That's going to be a lot of fun. And then a jump puzzle
9:35
competition taking place after that.
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Prizes throughout the whole day in person and online on the
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stream. Make sure you check that out.
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We will spread the word in our discord at pic dot LY slash fas
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discord. It's on Twitter.
9:47
Boozer put a blog post everybody will be talking about, it will
9:49
be on the Radar IO main page and it will be a check off of one of
9:54
my goals for the year, which Full disclosure chat I knew was
9:59
going to happen when I made the goals.
10:05
Hey, listen, when when when you originally sat down and we're
10:09
like, what do you want to do? What goals you have?
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We didn't know we were going to like, cross that off so early.
10:15
We knew there was a real good chance.
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But when you originally, not when we made it on the show, but
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when we originally like, hey, what do you want to do?
10:22
We're going to make it happen. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
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So that's pretty exciting stuff. I'm looking forward to it and we
10:30
get to hang out with everybody. Everybody's coming in.
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I is coming, Dan's flying over Mr. GM from from London, Kira
10:36
the Dark Blade cosplay is coming up from Florida.
10:38
We have a ton of Canadian content creators, Tactics,
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Abadon, Jeddeth, Jericho, Ren, my friend Ren is flying in from
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Alberta, Hula from BC is coming. A lot of folks coming from New
10:47
York, coming from everywhere. And most importantly, Manny will
10:51
be there. I will finally be able to cash
10:54
in on my 17 Ode hugs. I will be spacing the Moat over
10:59
the three days. Or maybe I'll take them all at
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once. It's hard to say.
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Nobody really knows. So I'm, I am excited for that.
11:09
There's like going to be a lot going on, a lot of people that
11:11
we want to meet. Sad that we could not trickle X
11:14
in the coming. She she already used up her
11:17
Canadian trip before Christmas. So not to forget that.
11:21
For Azeroth, hosts can be in the same space at once.
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Rule of the universe. Like anytime an event occurs,
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only two of us can go at one time.
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And unfortunately, I drew the short straw.
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Sadness. But of course that means that
11:38
Blitz gone. There'll still be two of you. 2
11:40
of you there. That'll be awesome.
11:43
I'm really glad we got to do this because I was like, I'm not
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driving to the States, so I made BlizzCon come to us.
11:49
That's. Right, we're having Blizz can we
11:51
got Blizz can at home. No, no, they they vetoed that
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name. Oh yeah, they did.
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We actually, I don't know for that to say that I that was one
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of the names we suggested. And Blizzard did have some say
12:00
over the naming of the event, of the venue of the event.
12:04
And when we suggested Blizz can, they were like, hey, we love it,
12:07
but you can't use that. And to to the red shirt guy, if
12:13
you're within the sound of my voice, we understand that N rend
12:16
is gonna be in the last Titan. This is purely Canadian and N
12:20
rend being oh did did he? Comment I didn't even see that
12:25
on Twitter. No, that was on Blue Sky.
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He's he's off Twitter. Oh, so nobody saw it?
12:30
Apparently I did, so there you go.
12:33
Two people on Blue Sky are manual.
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Shirt Oh blue sky saw it. Both of the both of the blue
12:38
skiers saw it OK anyways. So there you go.
12:42
Yeah. So we're excited about that, but
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let's talk about some more things.
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World of Warcraft in game. This is the 3rd week of
12:53
endeavors, the second week of the pre pre patch event and we
13:02
are closing in on midnight. There's been a lot of
13:07
adjustments that they've been making to stuff on the beta, so
13:11
I'm going to suggest to people it's not time to learn your
13:14
class rotation. Some classes are getting changes
13:17
to their apex talents, some classes are getting changes to
13:22
their even their cooldowns like Resto shaman.
13:25
The very nature of how ascendance works has been
13:29
changed. So don't get comfortable guys.
13:32
A lot is still still happening, but I didn't want to take this
13:36
time to like kind of check in with you guys and see how you're
13:39
enjoying this pre patch, pre release situation because I
13:46
think the event itself is pretty trash.
13:51
But I am enjoying housing and the other things that have been
13:54
put forward, which is kind of balancing out a bit.
13:58
Like are you guys taking the time to do any kind of housing
14:04
to do the endeavors? Or is that something that you
14:06
kind of just ridden off as not really for you?
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I guess that question is kind of pointed at you, Lex.
14:15
I did the 50 tic tac toe achievement because you taught
14:20
me how to do tic tac toe and win Manny Yeah, I'm heavily in break
14:25
mode. I wanted to log in for the pre
14:28
patch event and it pissed me off so bad.
14:32
I did one day of it and I was like, simply now, which probably
14:37
gonna make me sad when I don't have a cute little amount and a
14:38
cute little title, but I don't at this point.
14:42
I understand they've nerfed it, and I'm mad enough that they
14:44
opened it with what was such an odd, like a blatantly obvious
14:48
bad system that was not fun. And I I I say this knowing that
14:52
I am one of the only World of Warcraft players who doesn't do
14:55
two things at once and doesn't, like, watch Netflix while
14:58
everyone I'm playing the game. So maybe it's my own fault.
15:01
Maybe I need to learn to multitask, but I, I, I did that
15:04
one first day. I said this is stupid and I
15:07
have, I most likely will not be on until, well, we're going to
15:11
do one final run, one final run of Dimensius just to kind of
15:16
feel our glasses out a little bit.
15:19
And then I likely will not be on until official midnight release.
15:25
OK, OK. Jon, I fear that there might be
15:28
a similar answer from you. Well, I did the endeavors.
15:32
I'm done. I've done endeavors.
15:34
I don't have to do them again. I picked up enough sticks and
15:38
fixed enough fences to fill my bar exactly one time and that's
15:43
it. I'm endeavored out.
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So endeavors are complete. I checked that.
15:49
I'm checking that box off Endeavors done.
15:51
I never have to do this again. I will collect my passive
15:54
endeavour points from doing dungeons and raids and what have
15:57
you and that will be that. I got as much in general from
16:01
that as I could, but I I got to be honest, the pre patch event
16:04
couldn't be more Sean coded. I love it.
16:09
It is almost identical to the Shadow Lands pre patch event
16:15
which took place in Ice Crown Citadel which I also loved.
16:19
I fly to a zone or to a spot, I wait for the mob to spawn, I
16:23
kill them up. I fly to the next spot, I wait
16:26
for the mob to spawn, I kill them up, rinse and repeat.
16:30
That's fantastic. Do you know how much work you
16:33
can get done in between rare spawns?
16:35
At 5 minutes of spawn, about 3 minutes of work.
16:38
It's pretty good. It's pretty good.
16:39
That's some some surfing, that's some shorts generating, that's
16:43
some text writing. I love it.
16:45
I think it's great if I don't. I never ever ever Blizzard.
16:48
If you're listening fast, if you're listening, I am on my
16:50
knees begging you do this for every pre patch event.
16:56
This is perfect because it's almost AF cable.
17:02
I have to engage with it almost not at all and that is
17:05
fantastic. I have almost completed all of
17:08
the trans Mon. You know what video aim is great
17:10
if you're literally not playing it.
17:12
If you're like, this is top tier because I'm not engaging with
17:15
it. I love those AFK warrior games,
17:18
they're fantastic. Yeah no, I love the pre budget.
17:19
I endeavors can get launched into the sun.
17:22
What a horrible experience that is.
17:23
I'll never do that again. But the pre batch event is
17:26
fantastic. Wow, that is diametric
17:32
opposition there. I cannot see you guys being
17:36
further apart. OK, that is insane.
17:42
That's the crazy. Man, you know my my joy of AFK.
17:51
Yeah, joy of AFK game modes. I'm I'm aware.
17:55
Yeah, I and honestly if I'm playing my rest of shaman I land
17:58
I don't I just hit healing totem healing stream totem once I
18:02
press 1 button and then I right click delete when it's dead and
18:06
it's great. I have it's so good for second
18:09
monitor gaming. I love it.
18:12
Wow, OK, there you go. I'd love to hear from our
18:16
audience because I don't think like this was not prepared ahead
18:22
of time. I had no idea that we would get
18:24
these two different reactions. So I'd love to hear from the
18:28
Fazzers out there. Let us know what you think where
18:34
sorry, where you weigh in on this.
18:37
You can get your conversation in at bit dot LY slash fast discord
18:42
or leave a comment we we do listen or read those as well,
18:48
but. You're not getting off the hook
18:49
here Manny. What about you?
18:49
What do you think about the pre batch event?
18:51
Oh, that's right. Yeah, true.
18:53
I didn't, I didn't say anything myself.
18:54
I so. Choose your favorite.
18:56
I, I think it's funny that you mentioned the repairing fences
19:00
and stuff because I was doing like the specific things for
19:04
like the theme of the events. So the generic stuff, I was
19:11
like, oh wow, OK, I can like clean some cobwebs or fix, fix a
19:16
fence. I'm glad that those are, those
19:17
are in there and I only found out about those like today.
19:22
I was doing nothing but the very specific ones.
19:26
I point towards your comment about how the endeavors can be
19:32
done passively. You don't have to actually like
19:35
spend spend the time, but I really love that they're not
19:39
capped anymore like they were at the beginning.
19:43
So like I'll be going to the Town Center to get some stuff
19:46
that I want from my house. I'll get some fresh paint
19:49
because I want to put up a paint and then the puppy will be there
19:52
or like the Meccano bottle be going around and spilling oil
19:56
and I'll be like, OK, let me just clean that up and pet the
19:58
pet, the dog and I'll get neighborly and stuff.
20:00
And it's just, it's a part of. As I'm doing stuff and I really
20:05
do like that that is there going through the portal to do the
20:10
endeavours. I basically did it a little bit
20:13
the first week and then I have just been getting it as I've
20:18
been gathering material to like work on professions for a
20:22
particular zone. I'll do it in the endeavour
20:26
zone. So I'll get more coupons that
20:28
way. But yeah, I've both my
20:31
neighborhoods are either maxed or next to maxed.
20:37
I've bought every single decor that that's available from all
20:42
four of the of the endeavors that are available now.
20:47
Because the great part about this is that people have been
20:50
putting up listings and saying like, hey, Max consortium, come,
20:55
come join, go to this neighborhood and I'll like jump
20:57
in, go to that. Some of them have fantastic
21:01
houses, like absolutely like jaw-dropping.
21:07
I can't believe how crazy this stuff is.
21:09
And so I've really enjoyed it for the social aspect.
21:14
And then I'll be, I guess on your side, Sean, where like I'll
21:17
just be able to do it passively when I don't have the time to do
21:20
such it the other way. So I think I like endeavors.
21:25
I think that if you are playing like Sean is or like I'm saying
21:29
that I'm going to, it is great for those people, but for the
21:33
people who want to actually like put the time in, it's 100% there
21:37
for them. So perfect, great way of great
21:40
way of putting together. As for the pre patch event, I'm
21:45
on Lex's side for this. Like this may in fact have been
21:52
one of the worst ones I have participated in, in terms of
21:57
engagement. And I can second screen it.
22:00
I ended up second screening for this one, but I specifically did
22:05
not engage it or touch it the first little bit, 'cause I'm
22:09
like, with everything Blizzard's putting out these days, they'll
22:14
put it out and then two days later be like, hey guys, we
22:17
fucked up. How could we know that this was
22:20
going to be absolute dog shit? I guess we're going to patch it
22:23
in so that it's it's less dog shit and then I'll I'll do it.
22:28
At one point I wasn't sure I was going to like get enough for the
22:32
mount initially. And I was like, you could
22:36
probably wait like calculate at this rate how much time I would
22:41
need to get it in under the wire and just wait for them to hot
22:45
fix it again to be like less brain dead.
22:50
But I think that it being nothing more than a second
22:55
screen events that you mostly AFK through to me is an
23:01
indictment. Like there was the initial
23:05
opening quest and I thought that that was annoying.
23:08
And then you get into the Highlands and I did the world
23:10
quest because those reward more than the the rares.
23:17
I killed the rares, the crossing them off the list so I could get
23:21
them out and and I went back as I was talking with Lex, I was
23:28
like, yeah, Lex, here's how you never lose that tic tac toe.
23:32
I can't say you you can always win, but you do you play tic tac
23:36
toe like this and you can never lose was what it was.
23:39
And then we, because I was there with Lex, I got the got the 50
23:45
for the achievement or a feat of strength.
23:47
But if I'm not being social like it, like when I went back, it
23:52
was because my friend wanted to go and we were just chatting.
23:55
And so that's what made it interesting hanging out with a
23:57
friend, not anything that the game was offering.
24:00
And I think that that's an indictment.
24:02
So I guess I'm split between you guys.
24:06
Manny, did you see the PC Gamer article?
24:10
I'm sorry, I was trying desperately to find the actual
24:13
headline so I could read it titled Wow's expansion pre patch
24:17
event has buffed its rewards after being a little stingy at
24:20
1st and I'm running out of ways to phrase these sorts of
24:22
headlines without plagiarizing myself.
24:25
No, I did not. But it's so true.
24:28
They've like and Ian has a coast.
24:31
It's not a direct quote, but it is something to the effect of we
24:35
want to be conservative at first because it's easier for us to
24:38
like open up the the floodgates than it is to like go back.
24:43
And to that I say take the time and do it right the first time
24:48
instead of constantly having to be like, whoops, sorry you got
24:51
there early. I guess you're going to have to
24:54
hope that it's something repeatable daily, because now
24:58
we're going to make it actually more worth your while to do, not
25:01
so tedious. Well, and also it's pre patch,
25:06
right? This is the time that like just
25:08
yeah, whatever man it gives a ton of currency see and everyone
25:12
feels like a God sick. Oh no, the world's going to end
25:14
pre patch was super generous. Call the police right and this
25:18
is I I I I'm sad. I am famously the pre I as a
25:25
child played obviously the Wrath pre patch which is the most God
25:28
tier pre patch that has ever occurred and then when I
25:31
returned to World of Warcraft after a long hiatus was right
25:36
before Legion pre patch. Which is also famously one of
25:38
the really gangbusters every time, eh?
25:40
That was amazing. Yeah.
25:41
Yeah. So in my head, pre patch is
25:42
incredible. And so I am constantly
25:45
disappointed by pre patch. And the thing that frustrates me
25:48
the most about disappointing pre patches is like, it doesn't
25:51
matter, right? Because they in the sense of
25:53
like, it's it can be goofy. It doesn't have to be well
25:56
tuned. It can just be fun.
25:59
And they instead choose to be derivative and like it just
26:05
stingy and make it incredibly grindy.
26:09
And I what really frustrated me was like it was the the world
26:12
quests were some of the most copy paste world quests I've
26:15
seen in my life and they only had four.
26:17
And also they genuinely like at the beginning, they opened it up
26:20
with 10 minutes between spawn kills.
26:23
Like, yeah, maybe if this was the first time they'd ever
26:26
written a pre patch, they might have genuinely believed that
26:29
people were going to be happy with 10 minutes between spawn
26:32
like kills. But that gave us genuinely like
26:36
8 minutes between every kill to just sit on our butts because we
26:40
could not do literally anything because there were four world
26:43
quests and they all took about 5 minutes apiece.
26:47
So no, I was not, I was not happy in the beginning because
26:50
yeah, I, I, I feel like they do this every patch.
26:53
It's not like they don't understand the currency systems.
26:56
They don't know how much people are going to play.
26:58
They don't know how fast we kill ads.
27:00
Like, bro, it's the midnight pre patch.
27:05
We could have tuned it better. And I do it, it, it feels I'll
27:08
stop soapboxing in a minute, I swear.
27:09
But it does feel like kind of the point is to start
27:14
extraordinarily stingily and really slowly so then they can
27:17
fix it. As opposed to just like, yeah,
27:20
yeah, I'm. I'm with you many.
27:21
They knew. They knew that this was too
27:22
slow. They knew that this was not
27:24
enough money. They knew that this was going to
27:25
suck. Right.
27:26
It was slapped together and copy paste and simply the most
27:32
derivative thing I can imagine. Sorry, Sean.
27:34
I'm glad that you're having fun. I don't mean to yuck your Yum.
27:37
It's OK, it doesn't bother me. You're allowed to not like
27:39
stuff. I I not like, I not like stuff
27:41
all the time. That was good English.
27:44
I, I would have enjoyed it more like I think that all, all the
27:52
complaints that I just put aside, I think that if there was
27:55
just a story element that would have been enjoyable, that would
27:59
have bridged the gap a little bit more.
28:03
I I would have said, Oh yeah, this was just the busy work, but
28:07
the real pre patch was this cool thing we did.
28:10
But like I think that kind of got already done in the .7
28:15
patch. Like if I took that .7 story
28:17
where the least story was around and we had Air Thor and I just
28:22
transplanted it into this. I think all of my I would have
28:26
just completely ignored the faults with this 'cause I was
28:28
like this is what I got to enjoy as pre patch stuff.
28:31
And Manny they could have had the pre patch event been like
28:33
cleaning up the shadow lands. Wait why didn't they just do the
28:36
.7 as the pre patch? That would have been so much
28:40
cleaner and they would have had so many more opportunities.
28:42
And OK I don't know the lore well enough to know if this is
28:44
true, but I know I have heard completely.
28:46
Actually YouTube can tell me if I'm tripping out.
28:48
I clearly have been on World of Warcraft Reddit and they were
28:51
complaining about the fact that it doesn't, in their opinion,
28:53
make a ton of sense for Twilight Hammer to just suddenly be with
28:56
Zalitaf when they're historically Old God and Zalitaf
28:59
and Old God tend not to get along.
29:01
I don't know if that's true, I've only read Chronicles.
29:04
It there is thought for that, however, with all of the Old
29:10
Gods now dead, they're kind of rudderless and for them to latch
29:16
on to a former enemy, right? Isn't that contrived?
29:22
It's totally fine for them to be like, yeah, we want the end of
29:24
the world. The Old gods have failed, the
29:28
Old Gods are gone. All hailed Xalatath like that.
29:33
That doesn't seem like too far a stretch.
29:35
That was kind. Of my.
29:37
The Twilight Hammer is notoriously made-up of foot
29:39
fetishists, so. Oh yeah, that'll do it.
29:42
That also tracks. OK.
29:45
Can I I just have a question though, because I I have heard,
29:48
I know that I'm in the minority of people who like this pre
29:50
patch. Nobody, literally nobody that I
29:53
know likes this pre patch. Do you guys, are you really like
30:00
eager for a reason to log in and some long slog to do before a
30:04
new expansion launches? Do you not just want it to be
30:07
easily forgettable fun and? Goofy.
30:09
I want something silly. I want to play around.
30:14
It took me a while to figure out a word that Manny wouldn't have
30:16
to beep there. It's so sad.
30:19
Fuck it, you can say whatever you want.
30:21
Yeah, Whoa, Manny, this is a kids show.
30:24
Yeah, yeah. Keep going.
30:25
Think. Of the children.
30:25
Listen listeners. No listen family.
30:28
The episode where I was away and you just said no thing.
30:32
We did not curse once. There was not one F word.
30:34
I searched it. I checked no single, no F words.
30:36
Were sent no, but it was just like, whatever I'm like OK,
30:40
that's fine. I give up you guys.
30:41
Yeah. There were there were no F words
30:43
in that episode. Listen.
30:44
I know, listener, Listener XI know you listen with your kids,
30:48
and I want to apologize to you and your children for Manny's
30:51
foul language just now. Did you think we're allowed like
30:54
so many, we're allowed to get away with so many without an F?
30:58
Word an episode Yeah, one an. Episode.
31:00
That's why Sean's being really careful now.
31:01
That's why you're being really careful now.
31:03
I don't want to have to edit this later.
31:06
So there's two things that I think could make a really fun
31:09
pre patch 1 is just silly, goofy fun, right?
31:14
Like everyone remembers, everyone who plays Wrath
31:17
remembers and loves the Wrath pre patch, which for those of
31:21
you who either did not play or did not remember, that was the
31:23
one where like you spread plague, right?
31:26
You would turn into a zombie and then if you like ran around
31:29
other people, you would give them plague.
31:31
And they're like, it was. And the people who didn't want
31:33
to get plagued were freaking out about how to avoid the plaguey
31:36
people. And those of us who were plagued
31:38
were like trying to spread it to as many people as possible.
31:41
It was dumb, it was goofy, it was ridiculous, it didn't
31:44
matter. It was to this day one of the
31:48
memories of World of Warcraft that sticks out in my head.
31:50
It's the most fun I have had playing this video game.
31:52
Like it was just sheer chaos for the sake of chaos.
31:58
The other thing that can make to me a pre patch fun is some
32:06
degree of adventure, I guess. I think that's what I really
32:11
liked about Legion, right? So I'm now these are the two pre
32:13
patches that I will forever say were some of the best.
32:15
Legion was really fun because it was a exciting event.
32:17
It was very structured where it was going to be, but you did
32:20
have to move, right? So the travel time took up most
32:23
of your time that you were waiting for things to occur.
32:25
In my memory at least, it was an excellent leveling activity.
32:28
Like you just that's how I got my first Max level character.
32:31
This is when I was a role player and the events were rigid enough
32:35
that you kind of got into the rhythm, but there was enough to
32:37
do and enough excitement that you could really feel like you
32:43
were playing a game and having fun.
32:46
The stages were there to to like, kind of give you
32:48
structure, but it was crazy and wild and everybody was pouring
32:52
in and such. Yeah.
32:53
Right. And I do feel like some of the
32:55
the most fun I have in World of Warcraft in general in a way
32:58
that I I feel like I haven't necessarily felt quite as much
33:02
recently, but I felt a ton during Legion, which maybe just
33:04
means I've gotten jaded since that was when I kind of came
33:06
back in. But anyway, was just the joy of
33:10
all of us are working together. We're not necessarily
33:13
interacting, but there's so many people here and we are all
33:17
engaging in one big task as a community.
33:20
It felt very communal. It felt very alive.
33:22
That was also why I think I had so much fun with the, you know,
33:26
soup, the, the, the Stew quests, right?
33:28
Like that sort of nobody's taking it super seriously, but
33:34
everyone is getting engaged and everyone is having a really fun
33:37
time and everyone is digging into it as a group and as a
33:40
community. I have a lot of fun with that.
33:42
And I think that's a great thing for pre patch to really bring
33:45
that energy in life. And I think that isn't really in
33:48
this one. I think it's just, you know,
33:52
we're all flying to the spot and sitting there and then pressing
33:56
buttons until the thing dies. And it's not a complex enough
33:59
fight that it's really like taking up a lot of brain power.
34:03
And so it's kind of just I'm gonna go and I'm gonna press my
34:06
healing totem and call it A tag. Yeah, I, I would say that I
34:14
liked Legion because of the Broken Shore event that was like
34:21
big like like scenario sort of thing.
34:23
I was like, oh cool. Like does the Legion coming back
34:25
OK, and now I'm hyped for the expansion sort of thing.
34:28
Also Legion had like much like this huge sweeping class
34:34
changes. This was when like
34:36
specializations really started differing from one one another.
34:40
So that was exciting a novel and such.
34:44
The other part of of pre expansion stuff that I like is
34:50
the kind of limited time events and stories.
34:54
I don't think that Cataclysm had like the most amazing story
35:00
stuff. Like it was just like elementals
35:02
attacking the main main city, utterly forgettable.
35:05
But it also had the like reclaiming Nomurion and the and
35:10
the like liberation of the, the echo aisles.
35:14
And that I thought that was great to have that little story
35:17
story moment to push forward like the the like Azeroth stuff,
35:23
even if you never came back to it, like unfortunately for
35:26
Mechagon, still contaminated, but at least we, we don't have
35:30
the like meme of they've never tried to get it back.
35:33
The and it also made sense when Cataclysm changed the world.
35:38
It's like, hey, yes, you get to be on Echo Isles now because
35:41
they've reclaimed it and they've rebuilt that sort of stuff.
35:45
So I think as world workout, as a living world, that kind of
35:48
stuff would be, would be great. So that's it.
35:52
I think those are the things where as you were doing these
35:57
pre expansion events, they should be for all different
36:00
types of players, not just the players who are doing work.
36:07
And just, you know, on the second computer having the
36:12
little tipping dodo bird tap the five to drop their healing
36:17
stream totem. So they get get events, they get
36:20
experience. I'd like something where I could
36:23
be like, OK, let me do a fun event, not necessarily a big
36:28
involved challenging event, but just a fun event to get me in
36:31
the mindset of coming back to this game.
36:34
That's what I would want from the pre expansion.
36:37
But that's all that we're going to talk about pre expansion
36:40
because there's a general how the World Warcraft is moving
36:45
forward. And it was an amazing article
36:47
about that that came and it came out.
36:49
This was with Ian Hasikosis, Holly Longdale, and I apologize
36:56
I forget who the third person was.
36:59
The interviewer. It was the, no, I thought there
37:02
was a third person other than them, but yeah, I guess it was
37:04
the interviewer. Yeah, OK, It was the
37:06
interviewer. So this was generally about like
37:12
these big changes coming to World of Warcraft, how housing
37:15
came. It came to be over the course of
37:18
many expansions how they are broadening the appeal of World
37:22
of Warcraft and making it something that is, again, they
37:27
say this a lot, but listening to their audience, but not just
37:30
listening to the people who are terminally online like yours
37:33
truly, but the people based on like their play habits, what
37:38
they engage with, what they don't engage with, what makes
37:44
the game accessible, fun, something that people can come
37:47
back to. And I thought this was like a
37:49
really good light interview. It's not going to give you a
37:54
bunch of spoilers of what's coming in Midnight or Last
37:57
Hiding or Beyond, but it does put a lot of context on to what
38:01
we've we've been seeing from the team.
38:03
So one thing that was talked about was that they've empowered
38:09
their team with leadership and you have seen that as we've gone
38:14
through the interviews, you've seen people with their titles
38:17
changing and we now have a directorial team instead of just
38:21
one lead, lead director, they are leading multiple teams.
38:26
We've heard Holly Longdale talk about the live team, the team
38:31
that was working on the War Within that is now working on
38:35
the Last Titan, The the team that is a separate team that is
38:39
now working on Midnight that we're going to be enjoying
38:44
really soon. From this interview, what did
38:47
you guys think were like some good takeaways?
38:52
I'm going to throw this one first to you, Sean.
38:55
There's a few things. There was one thing I'm pretty
38:59
sure Holly confirmed we're going to get a Blizzard television
39:02
show. She specifically called out how
39:05
she feels the Warcraft IP has been underutilized and how they
39:09
don't want to just be an MMO at Microsoft.
39:13
So I mean, that could mean other types of games in with the
39:17
Warcraft IPI mean we have heard stone, we had war cover and all
39:20
that kind of stuff. We could maybe get an RTS at
39:22
BlizzCon, who knows. But I think it's sort of leans
39:24
to maybe seeing a television because they talk about
39:27
branching out to new audiences, bringing in new players, new new
39:29
viewers, new new people with the IPI think that means television
39:32
show. I think that's good.
39:33
There was a couple of quotes. I do want to talk about that TV
39:40
show before you dive into something further.
39:43
What do you think about a conflict of story 'cause if you
39:46
have a Warcraft TV show, do events in that show need to be
39:50
reflected in the game? Do things in the game that need
39:54
to be reflected in the show? What like do you think that that
39:58
would create a a narrative conflict?
40:02
No, you do the if you do a Warcraft show and it's not the
40:05
story of Arthus, you've made a huge mistake and it will flop.
40:08
Literally, literally just do the story of Arthus.
40:10
So. I can I be so so controversial.
40:14
I'm so fucked. Sorry.
40:16
We we did our one FF word. I'm so sick of Arthus.
40:19
I'm so over it. I I have it has been beaten over
40:22
my head. I like I'm I'm so done with him.
40:24
If I have to hear the name of Arthus one more time, I'm going
40:27
to lose my mind. I personally, I think I've
40:29
argued this on the show before. I think the take away we should
40:32
have from the Warcraft movie is that trying to present
40:37
Warcraft's storyline, it's just too complicated and there's too
40:42
much. And so you're going to feel
40:43
thrown in. The ending's not going to be
40:45
very satisfying. And it's just it's it's going to
40:48
be so much just let's recreate Chronicle, but or like like
40:51
let's recreate this one specific game and not worry about the
40:54
fact the beginning doesn't make sense.
40:57
I also thought that they're definitely that comment very
41:00
much felt to me like they're talking more movies and more TV
41:03
shows. I really strongly believe if
41:06
they do that, I think you're probably right, Sean.
41:08
I think I am one of the few people who's so sick of the name
41:10
Arthur and I think they they are going to milk that cow until it
41:13
dies. But if I had a say in this, I
41:17
really think the way they avoid the narrative overlap is this is
41:20
a Side Story, right? I don't want to hear about the
41:23
main characters. I want to hear about the main
41:25
characters of World of Warcraft. I play World of Warcraft, right?
41:27
I read the books, I get into that.
41:29
I want ATV show that's like somebody in Elwyn Forest, right?
41:36
I, I want to see someone dealing with cataclysm as a, you know,
41:41
a, a soldier, like, how is this changing their life?
41:44
Like I, I want those really beautiful little side stories
41:47
that everyone loves in the, the, the game.
41:51
I want that to be the focus so that you could have a genuine
41:54
beginning, middle and end. It doesn't conflict with the
41:57
main story. You don't have to worry about
41:59
them Brett conning a bunch of stuff later.
42:01
And it can just be its own little unique story that
42:03
somebody who's nobody who has never played the game can enjoy
42:07
without getting confused. I have a hard truth for you,
42:12
Lex, and every Warcraft fan who, like myself, is desperate for a
42:17
television show. Oh yeah, we are not the target
42:20
audience. It's the goal if if they're
42:23
doing it, there is no money. In producing an animated series
42:27
television show, Arcane lost tons of money.
42:31
They lost so much and converted almost none of the viewers into
42:37
gamers in in riots in League of Legends.
42:42
So if they're you doing Warcraft television series, it is
42:45
strictly a marketing element used to bring new people into
42:50
the Warcraft space to entice them to play the game.
42:54
So it's 'cause you, you're probably not.
42:56
I don't think you're alone. You said you might be alone, but
42:58
I don't think I think there are lots of people who are tired of
43:00
the, the, the name Arthus, but they need to lead with their
43:03
strongest story to bring in new people, to see the universe, to
43:08
fall in love with the universe and bring them in.
43:10
You don't lead with side stories, cause who can't?
43:12
Like how is somebody who's never played the game before going to
43:14
care what's happening in Ellwyn Forest?
43:16
They don't mean Ellen Forest doesn't mean anything to them,
43:18
you know what I mean? You lead with the big the big
43:21
hits. That's fair.
43:22
But I do, I, I, I would worry if they did artists that that's so
43:25
far removed from the main storyline that somebody's going
43:28
to go in. They can be like how cool, it's
43:29
the cool artist story. And they're going to be like,
43:31
yeah, that was 2 decades ago. Like we had a whole moment where
43:36
Sylvanus was like, and he's finally gone, right?
43:39
Like man's dead man is dead as a doornail.
43:42
But no. And I, I think more so like I'm
43:46
imagining almost alike. Yeah, I guess I, I don't know.
43:50
I don't know what they do. I think that they are going to
43:51
try to do ATV show. I'm scared they're going to go
43:53
the same direction as the movie and bite off more they can chew
43:59
and make it more fan service than anything.
44:04
I don't want another movie The I enjoyed the Warcraft movie but
44:08
Warcraft's lore and history and back story is too dense for a
44:13
movie as we saw. I think it was.
44:15
The movie was good if you are already a fan of Warcraft but if
44:20
you're not which I guess that's their their target.
44:22
I mean, Holly specifically talks about branching out and reaching
44:27
new people, new viewers, new eyes.
44:30
So they're not targeting us. It's we're all going to watch it
44:33
and and, and love it and pick it apart and do what we do with
44:36
everything Warcraft related, you know?
44:38
Oh, did Richard Nack write this? It's awful.
44:41
Just I'm just kidding. That's a that's a joke.
44:43
That's an inside joke because Lex hates Richard Nack.
44:45
That's all that is, that's. He's joking.
44:48
Not me, not I'm kidding. Richard is a more talented
44:51
person than I'll ever be in my entire life.
44:52
The man's creating things that I will never dream of.
44:55
Yeah, also a joke, please, if you're listening, we.
45:00
Damn, I almost had that interview with Richard Nath
45:02
lined up. Now we'll never get it.
45:04
Yeah, I will never get them. Yeah, they're not.
45:06
I don't think they're targeting us.
45:07
They're they're targeting people that aren't in the space that.
45:11
So they're going to have to make it as simple as possible.
45:13
You could even start at the very beginning, you know, and tell
45:15
them, make them fall in love with Azeroth for a reason.
45:19
Show them. Maybe we could follow Torelian
45:21
from his beginnings as a simple orphan.
45:26
OK, not to. Be not to be continuous.
45:28
Again, Sean, they're not make it for us.
45:29
Stop it. They're not make it for us.
45:32
Let me OK OK fast NAV if you are involved and there is ATV show
45:36
and you guys are thinking of starting with original Warcraft
45:38
lore. As someone who just read Beyond
45:42
the Dark portal, it's not appealing old Warcraft storyline
45:46
is it? It's nostalgia fun.
45:48
It's the modern Warcraft lore has brought a lot of nuance to
45:54
the story writing process that makes it significantly more
45:57
palatable to modern audiences. Let's put it like that.
46:02
I would say that I agree with both your takes for different
46:08
reasons. Think marketable and profitable
46:12
and drawing people in is very much going to be part of the
46:16
decision making process like Sean is saying.
46:19
But I don't think that excludes what you're saying Lex.
46:22
I think that if you are to do this like Saturday morning
46:25
cartoons to get people to buy in and I'm not saying that I'm not
46:31
saying that this show would be a Saturday morning cartoon.
46:33
I'm just saying that like originally Saturday morning
46:35
cartoons, for those people who don't know, Saturday morning
46:37
cartoons were were invented as a vehicle to sell toys.
46:40
The He Man toys existed and then they meet the He Man show to
46:42
sell the toys, Transformers existed and then they meet the
46:45
Transformers show to sell Transformers and so on and so
46:48
forth. If you're of that mind, if
46:52
you're some studio exact and be like, we got to sell people on
46:56
the Warcraft IP so that they'll jump into Hearthstone, so that
46:59
they'll jump in the World of Warcraft and we'll get them
47:02
hooked. I got something for the after
47:05
show about that, but we'll leave that specifically for the after
47:07
show. I think that you sell people on
47:11
archetypes, you sell people on the experience.
47:14
You don't need to have Arthus, but you should have a death
47:17
knight. Like if there is an episode and
47:19
a death knight rolls into town and it's just like, Oh my
47:22
goodness, how are we gonna deal with this guy?
47:25
And and then people are like, Oh my gosh, I gotta I gotta get me
47:28
one of those. I gotta roll myself a death
47:29
knight. That does the effect.
47:32
But you, it's a question about artistic, artistic values.
47:36
It's it's a question about where you put it in.
47:39
And I think to Lexus point, if you do something that is that
47:44
you're starting from Page 1 and we're on page 9,000,067.
47:49
There's too much of A disconnect there as well.
47:51
You can't really have stories about like Ghoul Dan and stuff.
47:55
And then people come to the game.
47:56
It's like, but what happened to Gulen?
47:58
Oh, he's dead, and then he came back and then he's dead again.
48:01
Like people will just be like, OK, you know what, forget it,
48:03
never mind. So you have something that is
48:06
more contemporary. You have it that touches on
48:09
contemporary themes. And you could even do something
48:13
where it's like, hey, we're going to have the adventures of
48:18
the Wellikre or the the expedition or something.
48:23
You have, just like they have in Hearthstone, you have Sir
48:27
Merkelton as one of the characters and blah, blah, blah.
48:30
And, and they can do stuff. I don't know what the what the
48:36
level of appeal is, but you can have successful shows that
48:38
aren't exactly the storyline. Like people love the Witcher up
48:46
until they can the actor and they hired the the TV version of
48:52
the actor. But the Witcher was good and got
48:56
people interested into like older games and such and more
48:59
contemporary versions of it. I think that there are much
49:04
there are similar things. Arcane was expensive, but as
49:08
Goblin's graphics is saying in in chat, there was merch sales,
49:13
there was other stuff to help off offset that.
49:16
It's the first time I've actually looked at League and
49:20
they're not done with it yet. They're they're doing a new
49:24
series and probably they'll retool it so it's not as
49:27
expensive. But getting that IP, getting
49:30
that brand out there to reinvigorate an audience
49:34
sometimes might be worth a little bit of a loss leader.
49:39
Well an Arcane was unique because it was so strikingly
49:42
different from League of Legends right?
49:44
Like if you love Arcane, to my understanding as somebody who
49:48
has not watched Arcane and also has not played League of
49:50
Legends. But my understanding from the
49:51
people who have done both is that loving Arcane has no
49:55
overlap with the way that you play League of Legends.
49:59
Storylines are different and League is not a like yes the all
50:03
the characters have story and those characters are in the game
50:07
and in the show, but it's like a alternate version of those
50:11
characters and the game isn't a story driven game whatsoever.
50:16
Right. We should watch season 1.
50:17
Season 1 is very good. You could skip season 2.
50:20
I've been told. I've been told I really need to
50:22
watch Arcane. I've been told it's incredible.
50:24
Hey, I haven't watched the Warcraft movie and I'm sure
50:26
that's a cardinal sin on this show.
50:28
It's no, I mean. You're allowed to watch what you
50:31
want to watch, Manny you. When do you?
50:33
When would you find time to watch the Warcraft movie in
50:35
between all of your Universal Soldier 2 marathons?
50:40
I'm not going to lie, I think I would watch the Universal
50:42
Soldier 2 before I watch a workout.
50:43
Dude, the Warcraft movie is quite good.
50:45
It's it's very, very good. And they nail.
50:48
They nail the aesthetic. It it OK?
50:50
It's I, it's not as bad as people said it was.
50:56
I do think it's extremely dense. And me personally, as a reader,
51:00
I was like, I feel like I could get more if I just read the book
51:03
that I know this is based off of.
51:05
That said, yeah, I mean it. It's stunning, right?
51:10
I think, I wish they'd done. I wish the movie had been
51:14
better. I, I, I wish that it had been a
51:15
little bit lighter. I wish they thought a little bit
51:17
more about what story they were picking so that it did feel like
51:20
really the issue with the Warcraft movie, in my opinion,
51:23
is that it does not have a beginning and it does not have
51:25
an end. It is like just this random lore
51:28
chunk that, you know, you have to know a ton of stuff that
51:33
happened before it to even begin to understand it.
51:35
And the ending is deeply unsatisfying because it is part
51:39
of a storyline that goes on for like, again, two decades, Right?
51:43
So, but, but I, I, yes, sorry, you're right, John.
51:47
It's it's visually very, very appealing.
51:49
I say it's everything I like tonight.
51:51
That's OK. I.
51:52
Like like I would have like in terms of the chunk of storyline,
51:56
I would have like a story that is Cadgar realizing that Medeve
52:01
has like fallen from the path and gone evil.
52:03
And then it ending with like the opening of the dark portal or
52:07
Medeve going away right to then open the dark portal as like I
52:12
guess we lost but at least we saved the tower sort of thing.
52:15
And then post credits Mediva's like out there like what the
52:18
hell is going on sort of thing anyways.
52:20
Completely different thing. We should only talk about.
52:22
The rest of the interview? That was one point that John
52:25
made. Let's go.
52:27
I have another one, I have another one.
52:28
This one, this what bothers me a little bit.
52:31
So Ian made a comment that at one point I'm like, I'm going to
52:38
read this and Alexa's going to be like, oh man, that's sweet,
52:39
that's exactly what I want. And then on the other talk,
52:42
we're all going to be like, that's not exactly accurate.
52:45
So Ian mentioned that they're they're specifically talking
52:48
about the shift into the new development existence that we
52:53
have where they're on a strict 8 week cycle.
52:56
So Ian says Midnight will be the fastest expansion we've ever
52:59
made in terms of the gap between expansions.
53:02
We've had a regular eight week, content updates all along the
53:04
way, no corners cut, no compromises in terms of what
53:08
we're delivering and no sacrifices to quality.
53:11
We'll come back to this. And then he says, most most
53:15
importantly, this is the part that I think is important and
53:18
good to highlight. Most importantly, no sacrifices
53:21
to team health. I can truly say which may be a
53:24
rarity in the industry that's thankfully starting to change
53:27
more that this is an expansion that was made without crunch.
53:31
There was an expansion. This was an expansion that was
53:33
made without telling the team. All right, we need to come in
53:36
weekends and stay late. We did this smarter instead of
53:40
pushing our team in unsustainable ways.
53:42
At the end of the day, we're going to keep making this game
53:44
for years and decades. This is a marathon, not a
53:47
Sprint, and we need to treat it accordingly, both when it comes
53:49
to supporting our team and our players.
53:52
I unequivocally support that decision to say that there was
53:58
no drop in maybe have somebody come in one weekend, there was
54:05
drop to say that there was delivered that this, that they
54:09
have been delivering on this with no drop in quality.
54:13
I think if anybody who's played the game, who's logged in and
54:15
played the game in the last six months, I mean just listen to
54:19
the pre patch friend that you 2 described at the start of the
54:21
show that it doesn't feel genuine.
54:27
I felt the same way. I'm gonna push back on that
54:29
thing. I think the drop in quality it
54:32
has been how buggy things have come out, how broken things have
54:38
come out and how they've had to fix things after the the case,
54:42
like their conservative drop in like drop rates or timing and
54:46
stuff. I don't think that's a drop in
54:49
quality. That is just a decision that
54:51
they've made. I think that the that like the
54:55
systems that they are putting out are just designed to be more
55:01
shallow or designed to have less teeth, are designed to be just
55:06
less compelling. And that to me is the drop in
55:09
quality. It's the fact that like, even
55:13
though I didn't like Korthia, remember Korthia, remember how
55:17
much we didn't like Korthia, right?
55:20
I put that above like any .5 patch throughout the entirety of
55:26
the of The War Within and possibly Dragonflight.
55:29
I'm like my I'd have to stretch my memories, but all the .5
55:33
patches in my recent memory have been next to nothing.
55:37
Burgers have been what the hell is this?
55:41
And maybe part of that is that like, the story of the War
55:45
Within has been this fragmented, like shifting mess.
55:50
And that's not necessarily a quality thing.
55:53
But like, come on. When we had to go back to Arathi
55:57
because the Nerubians that are leaderless are doing a surge
56:01
invasion that leads to nothing again, wake me up.
56:07
When they and they only attack when Belladair is lit.
56:10
Right. Y'all could see it this thing in
56:15
the sky, right? Like they're major patches.
56:19
I, I loved all the major patches.
56:23
I think that they were incredibly solid.
56:26
I think the .7 patches. Choose to disagree.
56:29
I will say that the weakest of the of the major patches is
56:34
literally this last one going to Koresh and such.
56:37
I was like it did not interest me that much, but man did I love
56:44
the Galaggio undermine as an environment, as a as like a
56:47
theme and everything. You may have quibbles about
56:50
like, hey, like the story went off to thing that I've just
56:53
commented about, like the story kind of going off.
56:56
If like if that was married more into a into a solidified
57:00
storyline, I would have loved that.
57:02
That trip to undermine, right. I think the raid was like solid
57:09
like I know you you in mythic land screaming about all the all
57:14
the walls and such. It did not have the same
57:17
experience as me and my Kitty corner playing heroic and
57:20
getting my OTC. But I enjoyed the raids both
57:25
Nerubian palace and and undermine.
57:28
I don't think I like hated. I think it was fairly decent to
57:34
do Manafort Omega. I thought that dementias was
57:38
like an amazing cinematic achievement and was still a
57:42
compelling boss on heroic again in my little Kitty corner of of
57:46
the thing. I enjoyed the last two seasons
57:50
of Mythic Plus and even in the first season when I was getting
57:54
my like teeth kicked in because of different things, I still
57:57
engaged with it. It wasn't like, I think what was
58:02
the one beguiling, I think it was season 3 of BFA where I was
58:05
like, this is this is trash, this is garbage.
58:08
This is this is pulling my teeth out.
58:11
I'm only doing this because I want the gear, right?
58:14
I didn't have that same reaction to season 1 of the War Within,
58:17
nor anything in Dragonflight, which was on a fairly similar
58:21
cadence. So I would say that like, even
58:23
if they made things that I disliked, it wasn't because the
58:26
quality was shit. It was because I didn't like the
58:29
direction that I chose. Yeah, that's right.
58:39
Sorry I I went on a rant Soapbox Lex, what do you think?
58:42
It's OK. Yeah, I mean, I I kind of, I
58:46
feel like I think I agree with with both of you.
58:50
I also rolled my eyes real hard at the at the no corners cut, no
58:56
compromise in terms of what we're delivering.
58:58
And also there was there was a line that Holly had of like we
59:02
knew if we released housing, we had to make sure it was great
59:05
because we don't release things that aren't great.
59:07
Like that's not who we are as a company.
59:09
And I was like, Oh yeah, like, for example, we would never
59:12
release a, you know, super cut and paste pre patch where you
59:17
can teleport other people to Dornigal, right?
59:20
Like I, I, I think and, and a lot of that is just that it kind
59:24
of came out in a, in a rough point right when they just had a
59:27
pretty rough. Beating.
59:30
With the pre patch, I guess I yeah, I, I, I do feel like the
59:39
fact that everything has gotten kind of shallow and mid is a
59:42
corner cut. I feel like the fact that the
59:44
story doesn't make sense is a pretty big Horner cut.
59:49
Like, I, I know you literally just said this, Manning, but
59:51
yeah, the fact that we had an entire storing section, an
59:57
entire patch, I guess, where the whole point was that we were
1:00:01
learning that the Nauruvian culture is this really complex
1:00:04
and thought out and, you know, political world.
1:00:08
And then we took out the power who had full, like essentially
1:00:13
full control over the entire thing and.
1:00:15
And then that was the Nerubian Spy kids.
1:00:17
Like that's exceptionally weak story tile telling.
1:00:22
That's just, you can't just tell me half a story and then drop it
1:00:26
once you make it interesting. So I I do also take issue with
1:00:30
the idea that World of Warcraft as it is now is precisely as
1:00:36
thought out and well done as it's been in the past.
1:00:40
I mean, it's as thought out and as well done as like the middle
1:00:43
patch of Warlords of Draynor. It's as thought out and well,
1:00:47
well done as Azerite armor in the first little first little
1:00:54
bit of BFA. Like we've had so many faux pas.
1:00:57
Yeah, it does happen. Just how condensed does it need
1:01:00
to be before you say, hmm, quality's sort of slipping here.
1:01:03
Right. Exactly, Exactly.
1:01:05
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, neither of those
1:01:08
are hailed as successes, and neither of them were followed by
1:01:12
Ian saying, hey, we got it. We nailed it.
1:01:15
No quality drop here. You know, nobody came away after
1:01:18
Warlord and said listen guys, we got this shit figured out.
1:01:22
Which is I, I think, I think as as much as I was saying like,
1:01:25
oh, I guess it was really bad timing of like when it came out
1:01:28
in terms of the pre patch being really poorly received and you
1:01:31
know, people having all these complaints.
1:01:33
There's kinds of counterpoint to that is if you're saying you
1:01:37
listen to your players and you like players are not happy with
1:01:42
you right now, how are you going to come out and do an interview
1:01:45
where you say, yeah, where you say, Yep, we're doing.
1:01:47
There's no change in quality. Well, I think that's another
1:01:53
point that they kind of brought up which like, you know, not to
1:01:57
like point at any any of us here or maybe to point at all of us
1:01:59
here. But like, they talked about how
1:02:02
they're not just listening to the loud people on the Internet.
1:02:05
They're also like watching what players are engaging with and
1:02:09
such. And they were talking about how
1:02:11
delves are one of like the most welcomed additions to the game
1:02:16
that people are engaging with it at such a level.
1:02:18
And I know for two out of three of us, like that is not a
1:02:23
reality. So like this like like even with
1:02:29
this show trying to represent all different viewpoints,
1:02:33
sometimes some viewpoints kind of get shouted down by like a
1:02:39
over representation and they can be well, like the game might be
1:02:45
just doing more block blockbuster than we thought, but
1:02:49
you're just not hearing it from like the belly ours and the
1:02:52
cartridge Bros and the Shawn's of the world.
1:02:56
Those are both me. I I was once told by a very
1:03:00
smart man who invited me to be a Co host on a podcast with him
1:03:04
that we should not mistake engagement with enjoyment.
1:03:09
So just because something is very popular and everyone is
1:03:13
doing it doesn't mean they're having fun.
1:03:15
There's a lot of people doing pre batch event right now.
1:03:18
If you go on Twitch they're all doing it.
1:03:20
They're farming it endlessly and saying how miserable they are.
1:03:24
Lots of people engaging with it. I would say other than myself,
1:03:27
nobody enjoying it. Well, I, I don't mean to argue
1:03:31
against Lex's wise words there, but I think that their metrics
1:03:35
are probably a little bit more in depth than that it.
1:03:38
Wasn't Lex Manny. I just think so that like Ian's
1:03:43
statement there that what I want to highlight like this tooth
1:03:46
like I I really do want to highlight.
1:03:47
I think it's super important and and impressive that they're
1:03:52
going to be able to launch midnight on time without having
1:03:55
crunch in overtime. And I think that's huge and I
1:03:58
love it And that's, I think I just want to end it there.
1:04:04
That's. All I whatever misgivings we
1:04:06
have which we could go into at length, I'm glad that it's being
1:04:10
done without crunch and therefore absolutely my
1:04:13
complaints that I could levy. I want to leave leave on the
1:04:16
floor for now, but I'll bring it up in another episode.
1:04:19
Yeah, yeah. And that was it, that from the
1:04:24
interview. Other than that, and the last
1:04:26
thing from the interview is that I would watch Holly Longdale
1:04:30
read the back of a cereal box. She her energy, her absolute
1:04:35
passion and joy for this game is so infectious.
1:04:38
She got done talking about classic Wow.
1:04:40
And I messaged friend of the show Nick, and I said, I think I
1:04:43
want to play classic. And he was like, you don't.
1:04:46
It will pass. Yeah.
1:04:48
He's right, I don't. But Holly is so, so convincing.
1:04:54
I was like, man, she's right. Classic is awesome.
1:04:58
I do think that that was cool, a little tidbit that the classic
1:05:05
audience and the modern audience have very little overlap.
1:05:09
We have seen people where they're like, oh, come on,
1:05:14
Blizzard, why are you releasing like Myst, Myst Classic and
1:05:18
Anniversary and blah, blah, blah within two weeks of each other.
1:05:23
I can't play them all. And I think that is, again, some
1:05:27
of us terminally online people that are like, I just want
1:05:30
something to stream that everybody's hyped about rather
1:05:33
than like the fact that the audience just does not overlap.
1:05:36
That did also make a lot of sense to me.
1:05:38
I think I should have realized that there just wasn't a lot of
1:05:41
overlap between classic and retail because I was
1:05:45
consistently perplexed about the concept of classic because I was
1:05:49
like it. They keep putting out all this
1:05:50
content and hyping it up with such a major game mode.
1:05:53
And I don't know anyone who plays classic.
1:05:57
Like I play World of Warcraft and I cannot think of one person
1:06:01
that I play with also maybe think of one, but like nobody
1:06:04
plays classic on a regular basis.
1:06:06
How is this getting as much attention?
1:06:08
And the fact that these are just two completely separate
1:06:11
audiences. So yes, me playing World of
1:06:13
Warcraft retail, I don't know anyone who plays classic because
1:06:16
they're all in a different community and they're different
1:06:19
people and they're playing a different game and they're not
1:06:20
also playing retail. Kind of made it click for me of
1:06:24
why it just felt so I I I just didn't understand where the.
1:06:30
The hype and the money feels so disconnected.
1:06:31
Is it because you are? Because they're in their own it.
1:06:34
Might as well be League of Legends.
1:06:36
Like, what do you mean? Why is League of Legends?
1:06:37
I don't know anybody who plays League of Legends.
1:06:41
That's it. It's the same thing.
1:06:43
Yeah, I do know people who play League of Legends.
1:06:45
They're awful people, but yeah. My best friend plays League of
1:06:47
Legends but she feels the same. Yeah.
1:06:52
One day I will tell you there is this gold I was dating that was
1:06:56
trying to get me into League and it was it was anyways I I with
1:07:03
cues of feeding. I did never want to play again.
1:07:07
I don't know what that means. I know what feeding is, I do
1:07:12
that regularly, but I don't know what that means.
1:07:15
Well, I'll tell you about that in the after show.
1:07:18
No, I don't know. I like being ignorant.
1:07:19
I like not knowing it's. OK, you like you like your
1:07:22
blissful ignorance. Got it.
1:07:24
But I hope that you guys have enjoyed this conversation.
1:07:29
There is more to come. As I said, do pay attention to
1:07:33
everything that's being put out there.
1:07:35
If you are trying to learn your class, maybe don't take it so,
1:07:40
so seriously. You still got a lot that is
1:07:42
coming in and a lot that's changing on the on the beta.
1:07:45
Just get yourself comfortable with like a proper UI and such.
1:07:51
Now that most of that has now been locked down, they're not
1:07:53
going to be touching that till the .5 patch, which means add on
1:07:58
authors kind of had the stability to release tools
1:08:00
knowing that it's not going to change on them super quick.
1:08:04
Now's the time to sort of get your footing, not get into the
1:08:08
weeds. But until next time guys, may
1:08:11
all your hits be crits.