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Nothing On The TV, Nothing On The Radio · Detritus

• 0:06
  Cultural ephemera, stuff from the media. Living
• 0:12
  in perpetua in our memoria. C -cultural ephemera,
• 0:20
  stuff from the media. Living in perpetua in our
• 0:26
  memoria. Hello, and welcome to Detritus, the
• 0:35
  podcast that sifts through the debris of popular
• 0:37
  culture in order to explore and cover, and maybe
• 0:40
  even reclaim, that which is lost to the algorithmic
• 0:42
  rivers of time. I'm John Loveless, this is Jack
• 0:45
  Savage. Hello, I'm Jack Savage. And to introduce
• 0:48
  this not -particularly -yet -watertight concept,
• 0:50
  we will be petitioning each other to participate
• 0:53
  in the Act of Remembrance. As they say each autumn,
• 0:56
  remember, remember, the 5th of November. Gunpowder,
• 1:00
  treason and plot. To which we say, are you implying
• 1:02
  you're in favour of terrorism as a form of direct
• 1:05
  political action? Well, well, what a big question.
• 1:08
  I mean, yeah, yeah. I could come for the second
• 1:09
  episode with that. In most cases, yes. OK, good.
• 1:13
  Yeah, I'm pro... We're live from Refuge Worldwide.
• 1:16
  OK, yeah, sorry, yeah. I don't want to drop them
• 1:17
  in, but yeah, I do. I believe in the justice
• 1:20
  of the Molotov. OK, yeah, cool. I mean, he was
• 1:23
  one of the first people to ever throw one of
• 1:24
  those Guy Fawkes. Really? I think he invented
• 1:26
  it, yeah. OK, OK. Some would say it's Russian.
• 1:29
  Right. Maybe he was Russian. another great British
• 1:31
  invention. All the stuff I know about that comes
• 1:34
  entirely from the film adaptation of V for Vendetta.
• 1:38
  But that's, he's not in, oh they talk about Guy
• 1:41
  Fawkes in that. Well he's based on Guy Fawkes,
• 1:43
  isn't he? Oh right. And he blows up the houses
• 1:45
  of parliament in a similar way. Like Guy Fawkes
• 1:48
  is V's hero. Oh right. He kind of reinvents him
• 1:52
  for modern fascism. Well Guy Fawkes was a Catholic,
• 1:55
  wasn't he? Yes, I knew that. Like he was really
• 1:58
  against the Reformation. What's happened since
• 2:02
  we were last with you? Was your birthday, Jack?
• 2:05
  It was my birthday, yeah. That was two weeks
• 2:07
  ago. Gosh, that's the only thing that's happened
• 2:09
  since we last parted. No, it's not really. But
• 2:12
  yeah, that was good. You and I shared a stage.
• 2:15
  Yeah, we did. We did some karaoke. I don't typically
• 2:18
  like karaoke. And when you invite me out to this,
• 2:22
  at first I didn't know it was karaoke. Yeah,
• 2:23
  no, you said, like, definitely not. I said definitely
• 2:25
  not. And then... Because we are committed to
• 2:28
  doing a podcast together, it felt wrong not to
• 2:31
  attend your birthday, even though I was dreading
• 2:33
  it. But I went in with a positive mental attitude.
• 2:38
  I think that was evident. And I didn't really
• 2:41
  drink. And yet, despite this, I did do karaoke
• 2:45
  twice. I did Pet Shop Boys, West End Girls. Oh,
• 2:50
  yeah, that was very good. Really strong. I felt
• 2:53
  like at that point the room wasn't really, they
• 2:55
  were ambivalent about karaoke. But then you and
• 2:58
  I, you did, what did you do first? I think, didn't
• 3:03
  I do Sharp Dress Man by ZZ Tark? Sharp Dress
• 3:05
  Man by ZZ Tark. I feel like that went down a
• 3:08
  bit like a level A. You were in the same zone
• 3:09
  that I was there where people were just like
• 3:11
  not that bothered. They hadn't... They hadn't
• 3:15
  had enough to drink, basically, or they were
• 3:17
  catching up. But then by the time you and I did
• 3:20
  a duet together, which came up out of the blue,
• 3:23
  which was Simply Red's Fairground, I mean, it
• 3:27
  was good. I think there was a, I think the room
• 3:30
  really came together. I really threw myself into
• 3:33
  it. It certainly did. I remember one of the highlights,
• 3:37
  lowlights of COVID was watching. a live recording
• 3:41
  of Simply Red headlining Old Trafford in Manchester
• 3:45
  in 1995. And I remember thinking to myself, you
• 3:48
  know what, like, Hocknall obviously went on to,
• 3:52
  Mick Hocknall the singer, became a bit of a,
• 3:54
  just in case anyone doesn't know who that is,
• 3:56
  and at this point if they don't, still, anyway.
• 4:00
  You know, in the 90s in Britain, Simply Red Who,
• 4:04
  you know, we've not nominated for this podcast,
• 4:06
  but wouldn't necessarily be a bad choice, would
• 4:08
  we? I've got a soft spot for a lot of their stuff.
• 4:10
  Mick Hucknall got up to a lot in the late years
• 4:13
  of the band that could really, yeah, tabloid,
• 4:16
  tabloid king. But we, you know, we did Fairground
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  by Simply Red. And I imagined that I was Mick
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  Hucknall on stage in front of Sir Alex Ferguson
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  at Old Trafford in summer 95, because he seems
• 4:29
  to be having the time of his life in that performance.
• 4:32
  He did Holding Back the Years, I remember. And,
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  you know, it was like, yeah, probably about six
• 4:37
  years ago. Hadn't seen anyone in a month. It
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  was very moving. I think I remember when Fairgrounds
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  came out and it really took them up a level.
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  It's a great record. Yeah. And it was also like
• 4:46
  a bit. You know a bit less kind of trad than
• 4:49
  their previous stuff. It's got club beats on
• 4:51
  it, hasn't it? It's samples an old Hacienda dance
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  classic. I Couldn't remember on the night and
• 4:58
  I can't remember it now. It's got kind of like
• 5:00
  Latin house tribal drums It's quite sexy and
• 5:03
  the video was shot at Blackpool Pleasure Beach
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  on the big one Oh, yeah, okay during the you
• 5:08
  know, the peak years of Blackpool Pleasure Beach.
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  So really I like the song reminds me of childhood
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  my mum and dad would listen to them a lot because
• 5:17
  if you were sort of a couple in your 30s 40s
• 5:21
  in the 90s you would just have Simply Red and
• 5:24
  Beautiful Self albums were almost uh sort of
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  mandated by the government yeah yeah yeah i'm
• 5:30
  trying to think what other what other records
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  are like that i guess like um i don't know i
• 5:36
  think in my house Alanis Morissette Oh yeah,
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  that was in my house. There'd be like a Sting
• 5:42
  record or something. Probably Phil Collins. First
• 5:44
  mention of the second episode, but Oasis, of
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  course. Not amongst the parents. You just didn't
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  have cool parents like me, man. Really? Yeah,
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  no trick. Yeah, I don't know. Good old Mick.
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  The karaoke was probably my most enjoyable karaoke
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  trip ever. Like I said, I wasn't drinking and
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  I felt like I'd done my piece and I left. when
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  it was getting more raucous there was a little
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  guy who who showed up when you say little guy
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  sorry no like a guy of about 70 right old man
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  yellow man and he he showed up and did some quite
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  austere readings of like some old kind of DDR
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  love songs sorry that's Wow, yeah, how did you
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  feel about I mean? I know it wasn't you it was
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  like a shared thing with you and several other
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  people who had the birthday on the same day But
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  yeah was did you shoot did you shoot with that?
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  I've got to see me knew someone we knew one of
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  us. But anyway, yeah, that was that was interesting
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  What else happened? The other thing that was
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  notable about is it was in a karaoke bar that
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  does karaoke exclusively so there was a sort
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  of karaoke mc there as well yeah yeah yeah and
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  when people weren't doing karaoke he would himself
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  do karaoke and he did this german novelty record
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  i'm guessing from the early 90s that was like
• 7:10
  a german rap record that sampled holiday oh yeah
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  dj's fan it was dj's fan yeah and seeing him
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  do all the verses for that which i think is sung
• 7:19
  by a few rappers to not much reaction simply
• 7:23
  to fill time I really thought that that's not
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  a job I'd like and full respect to him on midweek
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  for throwing himself into that. Yeah, you've
• 7:35
  got to do a lot of, I mean you probably over
• 7:36
  this course of the night you might get through.
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  You're the first person to sing, you're the last
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  person to sing probably as the energy dissipates.
• 7:43
  Yeah, sure. You've got to keep it up in the middle.
• 7:46
  Yeah, oh my god. I think that's what encouraged
• 7:48
  me. me to invite you to go and do Fairground
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  by Simply Red because I didn't like to see him
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  hanging. Yeah, yeah, no one likes to see him.
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  Imagine just doing that if you, presumably he's
• 8:00
  contractually obliged to be there. You just had
• 8:02
  a really bad day, someone's ill or your dog or
• 8:06
  a bill's coming you weren't expecting and you
• 8:08
  just have to generate that kind of level of enthusiasm.
• 8:11
  Yeah, I don't know what the... I can't even do
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  it for this podcast. Yeah, I don't know what
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  the... The contents of his contract are but I'm
• 8:20
  sure he has one. Yeah, at least a mini job. Oh,
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  yeah Yeah, I hope he's covered by the maybe there's
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  an independent karaoke kind of you know Union
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  is a member of yeah, they should be it's a very
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  difficult job Someone has to do it and you know
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  like this the Europe some karaoke balls all the
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  backbone of his there's quite a lot of Americans
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  outside when I left who were looking forward
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  to getting in to Yeah, do some karaoke. They
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  couldn't because it was a private party and it
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  seemed something like Yeah, they were you know,
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  they were really into it. I let some Americans
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  in did you? Yeah. Yeah, but I balance out the
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  elderly man reading DDR poetry Yeah, I pretended
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  to reject someone which was kind of funny. No,
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  but yeah, it's great great feeling though, and
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  they're really really obedient It was certainly
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  better than your last birthday where we DJed
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  together in a bar where there'd been some kind
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  of medieval themed sex party taking place the
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  night before which was being deconstructed as
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  we arrived and I got absolutely blasted. I was
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  fucking hammered in contrast to the karaoke experience
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  and then at the end of the night I was at least
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  sober enough to notice that my wallet and ID
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  had been stolen by some lingering meth -taking
• 9:38
  gentlemen who were still down in the sex dungeon.
• 9:42
  It was super weird, like I think there must be,
• 9:45
  I guess that place is run by people. Sex people?
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  Well, just like complete fuckheads who seem to
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  be just doing lines of speed and kind of hanging
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  out awake. and waiting for the party to finish
• 9:57
  so that they could do their own shit another
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  party yeah kind of melodic house party 8am and
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  like a dj came in afterwards and started playing
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  like he was headlining uh watergate yeah yeah
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  there was nobody there and one of his mates was
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  like prancing around it was yeah it was really
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  strange i wouldn't recommend that place anyone
• 10:17
  wants to get in touch i'll tell them which one
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  is yeah we can not recommend that yeah yeah you
• 10:22
  know it was did you have a good first of may
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  uh yeah i went to the Refuge party got to be
• 10:28
  honest. There wasn't much as they say unity in
• 10:30
  the community in the queue for that I see well
• 10:34
  to be fair. They don't I mean, I really hate
• 10:38
  queue jumping. I have very firm rules about about
• 10:42
  this kind of thing like I Always have done and
• 10:47
  I don't mind being on a guest list queue jumping
• 10:49
  that if you doesn't that's great. I mean, that's
• 10:52
  where I You know Get most of my most of my self
• 10:57
  -esteem from and they bought like a rollercoaster
• 10:59
  fast pass Yeah again annoying, especially if
• 11:02
  it's oversold of the theme parks really busy,
• 11:04
  but like it's you know, it's an advertised system.
• 11:07
  Mm -hmm The refuge worldwide queue was a couple
• 11:10
  of hours long. I got there at the exact wrong
• 11:12
  moment, but I thought And there was no chance
• 11:15
  that apparently they'd thrown away the list on
• 11:17
  the door because it was chaos. It was a good
• 11:19
  party when you get inside, I should stress. It
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  was good. I met loads of nice people, new and
• 11:23
  old, but I couldn't even turn up and say, hey,
• 11:25
  look, don't you know me from the breakfast show
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  occasionally? I couldn't even point it straight.
• 11:30
  You couldn't even know who I am. No, I couldn't
• 11:32
  do it. No, don't you know who I am? And then
• 11:33
  as I reached the beginning of the end of the
• 11:37
  queue, rather, the beginning of the club, people
• 11:40
  were just hopping in line. And at one point...
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  Nine kids, I'd say early 20s all of them really
• 11:48
  tall and beautiful. Mm -hmm Jumped in front of
• 11:52
  me and then another girl came and joined them
• 11:56
  and she seemed embarrassed about The fact that
• 11:59
  she jumped on the cute should be the others just
• 12:02
  didn't care They were too cool to care and you've
• 12:05
  got a you know respect that in a way. They they
• 12:07
  just were like, yeah, we Collectively, they clearly
• 12:11
  thought that they were better than everyone else
• 12:13
  in the queue and there was nothing else to stop
• 12:14
  them. And they very well might have been. Who
• 12:16
  knows? They were well put together crew. Then
• 12:21
  this other girl joined them and she sort of looked
• 12:24
  at me and she was like, oh, sorry. And I just
• 12:27
  didn't give her anything because I was dehydrated.
• 12:30
  I didn't put on any sun cream. I'd been in a
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  queue for two hours to get into a free party
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  for a radio station, which I... broadcast on.
• 12:39
  Imagine if Chris Morse was made to do that. He
• 12:42
  would be so pissed off. Chris Evans, it would
• 12:46
  have been a massacre. I got to her front and
• 12:50
  they jumped in front and she said like, I'm sorry
• 12:54
  and I was like, ignore it. And then she was like,
• 12:58
  you have very beautiful blue eyes. And I went,
• 13:03
  just ignored it again. And then she was like...
• 13:05
  You do. Ignored it. Then there was an Italian
• 13:08
  group behind me I was chatting to, and she was
• 13:10
  like, is your friend OK? Is your friend OK? He
• 13:12
  seems annoyed at me. And they were like, he's
• 13:14
  not our friend, but he seems fine. And then she
• 13:18
  was like, sorry, I just really felt like I needed
• 13:21
  to say you have beautiful blue eyes. And I said,
• 13:25
  well, I would have been able to take that, you
• 13:27
  know, in my stride more so if you and your friends
• 13:30
  hadn't just jumped in front of me. after I'd
• 13:33
  been waiting two hours to get into this. And
• 13:36
  she was like, no, no, no, we were waiting too.
• 13:38
  We were waiting half now and we just went to
• 13:40
  get a drink and then came back. And then I said,
• 13:42
  well, I've been here a long time. I didn't see
• 13:44
  it. And also I've been waiting two hours and
• 13:46
  she was like, I'll show you a picture on my phone
• 13:48
  of us waiting. And I was like, hang on, you took
• 13:50
  a photo of you. Did you think this might occur?
• 13:53
  And then she, you know, just wouldn't let it
• 13:57
  go. And that that really made me furious. And
• 14:00
  then eventually she was like, look, Can I invite
• 14:03
  you for a drink when we get inside? And I was
• 14:05
  like, absolutely not. And I put my foot down.
• 14:09
  I wanted to say, you've shown your cards there,
• 14:13
  even if... So I got hustled into this thing.
• 14:20
  And then I saw Graham within about a minute and
• 14:22
  he was like... Well, you're right, I look furious.
• 14:28
  Yeah, well your principles had been crossed.
• 14:32
  Yeah, and at a place where principles and ethics
• 14:34
  are key. And that's Refuge World 1, where unity
• 14:39
  is in the community. How about you? So I was
• 14:43
  booked in a natural wine bar to do my live thing.
• 14:47
  Here's a good opportunity for you to tell existing,
• 14:51
  current and... existing and current of the same
• 14:53
  things and future fans what you Jack Savage of
• 15:00
  formerly friendly fires and now up to musically
• 15:03
  Well, one of the things is that I've started
• 15:06
  doing this kind of like live I suppose like electronic
• 15:09
  thing I don't really know what it is at the moment
• 15:12
  I mean I kind of been I've been doing it and
• 15:15
  it's been going down, you know progressively
• 15:18
  better and better. Where have you done it? The
• 15:20
  last one was at a place called Zemin in Kreuzberg.
• 15:24
  Before that I did a place called Zwitschermachine.
• 15:27
  We should stress this stuff. I haven't been to
• 15:29
  see any of it myself yet, obviously. But from
• 15:31
  what I understand, from what I'm hearing on the
• 15:33
  scene, it's very much on the ambient stroke experimental
• 15:36
  side of things. Yeah, kind of. I kind of rebooted
• 15:39
  it to be a bit more rhythmically exciting and
• 15:43
  a bit more kind of jerky. Don't know a sort of
• 15:48
  like a bit R &B ish or something. I think it's
• 15:50
  kind of it's all done Hold on you're telling
• 15:53
  me the bloke from friendly fires has a live R
• 15:56
  &B tinge. I are ambient set I don't want to I
• 15:59
  don't I don't want to call it that but I think
• 16:01
  it you know I quite like the old a bit of jerky
• 16:04
  syncopation. Okay, right. Okay, Rodney Jerkin's
• 16:06
  action. So essentially a bit of that I've got
• 16:10
  to do it. So yeah, I was meant to be doing that
• 16:12
  at a natural wine bar in on May 1st, but the
• 16:16
  goalpost kinda kept on moving and I decided to
• 16:19
  not do it. I did kinda cancel quite late. I think
• 16:22
  you cancelling on May 1st, which is a hectic
• 16:24
  day full of lunatics, I don't think that is the
• 16:28
  place for your R &B tinted ambient music. Yeah,
• 16:32
  I don't think so either. And it was good of you
• 16:34
  to say, I'm not gonna do this. Yeah, I think
• 16:36
  it would just have been like... Also, it's a
• 16:40
  it's a it's a real hassle to like set up because
• 16:42
  it's lots of like hardware and and me fretting
• 16:45
  about things So I sort of feel like it was I
• 16:51
  don't know I just think of R &B I think of fretting.
• 16:54
  Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's not I think there's
• 16:58
  a lot of like I think there's a lot of fretting
• 17:01
  involved in R &B about like unrequited love I
• 17:05
  think the fretting in R &B is not the fretting
• 17:08
  I associate with you. Yeah, you're probably right,
• 17:10
  actually. But anyway, I want to row back the
• 17:15
  R &B thing, because I feel like that's going
• 17:17
  to get me tarred with a certain thing. Anyway,
• 17:22
  I've got to do it again on Thursday. So I'm doing
• 17:24
  a show on Thursday, but they want to film it
• 17:27
  and they want to film it in a really sort of
• 17:29
  like tight kind of... Who wants to film it? VH1?
• 17:32
  No, yeah, like Torso Electronic is for the music
• 17:36
  tech brand Torso. So it's a little bit of a corporate
• 17:40
  like thing. But anyway, they're going to make
• 17:43
  a really slick video of it, which I'm a bit worried
• 17:45
  about because... It'll be too slick. You're already
• 17:47
  too slick. Yeah, I don't know. Also, I'm not
• 17:48
  really... I think the thing I really like doing
• 17:51
  is like setting, is like sort of designing a
• 17:53
  system where like the music just plays itself
• 17:55
  and I just intervene occasionally. Yeah, right.
• 17:58
  And so it's going to just look like... More on
• 18:00
  the suspensions about when you're going to intervene.
• 18:02
  Yeah, or like, well, you know, what am I going
• 18:04
  to, you know, like what's going to happen? But
• 18:07
  essentially, I like things to just sort of...
• 18:09
  play themselves due to sort of like kind of various
• 18:13
  probability and algorithmic factors. So anyway,
• 18:17
  it's going to be a video of me basically overseeing
• 18:19
  this kind of table of musical equipment and just
• 18:24
  like touching it occasionally and then nodding
• 18:26
  my head. And then probably like looking around,
• 18:28
  smiling at stuff and maybe laughing awkwardly
• 18:32
  occasionally. I'm going to pretend there's like
• 18:34
  I've got friends behind the camera. I'm going
• 18:36
  to be pointing at them being like, yeah, you
• 18:38
  love this one, mate. Yeah. And people say ambient
• 18:40
  electronic music is just some bloke checking
• 18:42
  his emails. Well, we're about to disprove this.
• 18:45
  Yeah, I don't know. I think it does make me feel
• 18:46
  really awkward at like on stage. I think it's
• 18:48
  really, there's really like, I'm kind of responsible
• 18:52
  for everything, which is a scary place to be.
• 18:54
  Yeah, yeah. You know when people talk about like,
• 18:56
  they're filming it, I don't know how, you know,
• 18:59
  I feel about that. And I think that too, like,
• 19:01
  and then I just think about, that's definitely
• 19:03
  a generational thing. I mean, as it happens,
• 19:05
  we're filming this right now. What? Yep. Everything's
• 19:09
  filmed now. There's no point unless it's filmed.
• 19:11
  Yeah. It has to be documented. Yeah, no, it is
• 19:14
  actually true. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, do you ever
• 19:20
  have moments when you're DJing when you're like,
• 19:22
  if I just don't press this button, then this
• 19:24
  whole thing is going to go completely. Yeah,
• 19:26
  I mean, it's often what drives me to keep pressing
• 19:30
  the button. Yeah. Because, yeah, I do often have
• 19:33
  that, especially when I'm DJing for a long time.
• 19:36
  And, you know, I really love DJing for what it
• 19:38
  is. I love, you know, sharing music in that fashion.
• 19:41
  But sometimes I'll just be like, this is mental,
• 19:43
  isn't it? It's just two pre -recorded bits of
• 19:46
  music and if I stop one it would be a disaster.
• 19:49
  All I'd have to do is just stop it. You literally
• 19:54
  saw me accidentally stop a record when you came
• 19:56
  to see me de -joke at Berlin Harlequin. I did
• 20:00
  it then. I regularly do it. For me, I just feel
• 20:04
  like a hieroglyphic being tracks kind of crazy
• 20:06
  thing I do. That's my bit. Yeah, it could be
• 20:12
  a cool rewind. So excited to hear the next record.
• 20:14
  I stopped with wrong deck. I think it's fine.
• 20:16
  I didn't even remember that happened. I remember
• 20:18
  loads of things from that night, like the Sami
• 20:20
  people and the... Yeah, a lot happened that night,
• 20:23
  yeah. So, you know, don't fret. Should we begin?
• 20:26
  Let's begin. What are we talking about today?
• 20:29
  We're gonna go all the way back to the year 2007.
• 20:34
  We're gonna visit a now retired BBC format called
• 20:41
  BBC switch which ran in the UK and we're gonna
• 20:45
  investigate The spectrum of characters from youth
• 20:51
  culture at the time but that introduced us to
• 20:52
  with a special focus on one individual and that's
• 20:57
  Indie Amy aka Amy and I'm an indie You are watching
• 21:01
  another BBC Switch takeover on BBC2 with me,
• 21:06
  myself, Annie Mack, taking you through the next
• 21:08
  140 minutes. Right, up first is back to back
• 21:11
  Falcon Beach. Damn, that's all over. It's time
• 21:13
  to take a trip to the surgery. Expect some heated
• 21:16
  debates on the subject of social networking before
• 21:19
  we pull on our skinny jeans for sound. I don't
• 21:23
  remember this at the time, but I feel like it's...
• 21:25
  You're a couple of years older than me. This
• 21:27
  did go kind of viral, and you were... King India
• 21:30
  around that time. That's what they called me.
• 21:34
  This is one of the ambient R &B diversions is
• 21:37
  going to be so difficult for people to... I mean
• 21:39
  a lot of people are still upset by the news last
• 21:41
  episode but you've left Friendly Fires. Now you've
• 21:43
  fucking pivoted. Yeah, I know. Everyone thought
• 21:46
  it was crazy. Anyway, you were King India at
• 21:50
  the time. Yeah, I don't think I would have brushed
• 21:54
  shoulders with Indie Amy. BBC Switch had this
• 22:02
  kind of list of kind of style tribes of the time,
• 22:06
  right? Yeah, it was made for young people and
• 22:09
  I always find this kind of a curious element
• 22:12
  that the BBC have to do this as part of their...
• 22:17
  duty to the British public. They have to create
• 22:20
  programs, you know, CBBs for kids and babies.
• 22:24
  And then, you know, songs of praise for elderly
• 22:27
  religious people. And, you know, the one show
• 22:30
  for people whose frontal cortexes have stopped
• 22:33
  working. But they also... News for idiots. News
• 22:37
  for fucking idiots, mate. Yeah. They also have
• 22:43
  to create teen programming. But creating teen
• 22:46
  programming, whether you're doing it on a BBC
• 22:49
  license mandate or not, is a nightmare because,
• 22:51
  of course, teens don't want to be told what to
• 22:54
  watch. They don't want to have their culture
• 22:55
  explained to them. They just want to, you know,
• 23:00
  they want a vibe in their own way. They want
• 23:02
  a vibe. They want to be cool. They don't want
• 23:05
  to be like their parents. They want to, like,
• 23:08
  have their own culture. They want to, you know,
• 23:10
  they want to... They want to be kind of understood
• 23:12
  by each other but misunderstood by everyone else.
• 23:15
  They don't want any label part on them. Except
• 23:17
  when they put a label on them. Yeah, exactly.
• 23:20
  Which they often grow out of. And BBC Switch
• 23:23
  had a series called Vem. You can see it Jack,
• 23:27
  it was called Vem. It was called Vem. Are you
• 23:30
  one of Vem? Which of course would now be the
• 23:32
  BBC specialist service for non -binary and gender
• 23:37
  non -conforming people. Which I would obviously...
• 23:40
  Fully support. Yeah, I mean they don't have any
• 23:43
  of them an interesting environment in 2007 Yeah,
• 23:48
  I think if a BBC announced that they were opening
• 23:50
  a special service for non -binary people They'd
• 23:54
  struggle to sell it in the current political
• 23:56
  climate. Unfortunately. Yeah, I mean, I think
• 23:59
  it would be a you know, but let's hope they do
• 24:01
  we're talking about the Vems of 2007 here and
• 24:04
  notably there are no there are no specifically
• 24:08
  queer events that we could see. Well we don't
• 24:10
  know that. We don't know because a lot of it
• 24:12
  isn't online anymore it's been lost to the algorithm
• 24:15
  of time and it's not a lot of it even isn't on
• 24:19
  the internet archive which is of course what
• 24:21
  makes this such a... a juicy subject for this
• 24:24
  podcast. I'm looking at the website now and it
• 24:26
  really is from a time when websites were websites.
• 24:29
  Oh yeah. Like there's loads, you know, loads
• 24:30
  of java strip stuff that's not coming up. They
• 24:32
  weren't lifestyle experiences, they were things
• 24:34
  you logged onto. Yeah. And this is when the internet
• 24:36
  was good before everyone had a phone and if you
• 24:38
  wanted to be on the internet you had to go to
• 24:40
  a computer and sit down with it and engage with
• 24:43
  it. Go to a web cafe. Go to a web cafe, yeah.
• 24:47
  That's what I would do. Or wait until your mum
• 24:48
  was off the phone or whatever. Although by this
• 24:50
  point, I definitely had broadband and you know,
• 24:53
  I was like already just like, you know, if you
• 24:56
  were Mr. Indy, I was Mr. Internet at this point.
• 24:58
  So I was, I was aware of this service offered
• 25:02
  by the BBC at the time. I was a little too old
• 25:05
  for it. But I also thought that it was like well
• 25:08
  -intentioned, but... like, utterly lame, basically,
• 25:12
  which is the opinion that I still retain today.
• 25:15
  True. OK, so there are, there are 14 types of
• 25:20
  teenager. OK, go from 14 to, I guess they're
• 25:24
  not arranged in popularity order. Not really,
• 25:26
  but it would be interesting to know. OK, yeah,
• 25:29
  maybe we can make some guesses about that. Number
• 25:31
  14. Mosher. Mosher. OK, number 13. Hoodie. So
• 25:37
  they both wear hoodies, so whoever's put this
• 25:39
  together has got hoodies on their mind. I think
• 25:42
  a hoodie always wears a hoodie, but Amosha sometimes
• 25:44
  wears a crew neck. And a t -shirt. Also, Amosha
• 25:51
  might wear a t -shirt outside his crew neck.
• 25:52
  Yeah, that's possible. Number 12. Plastic. Plastic,
• 25:57
  right. That came out of popular... teen comedies
• 26:02
  at the time, like Mean Girls obviously introduced
• 26:04
  the term plastic. I don't know what that identity
• 26:06
  means now. I think it just means like being kind
• 26:11
  of fabulous. Yeah, kind of being like... I think
• 26:15
  that'd be a hon now, wouldn't it? Yeah, might
• 26:18
  be. Hon is a more inclusive version. But then
• 26:21
  I feel like hon is a bit more like... Silly whereas
• 26:26
  like I feel like plastic is just like being a
• 26:29
  being a kind of slightly younger kind of upwardly
• 26:31
  mobile person in their 20s I understand that
• 26:33
  Maybe all of them have I know some of them have
• 26:37
  a playlist associated with the With the group
• 26:41
  that should offer us further insight into what
• 26:44
  to expect. It certainly does like the internet
• 26:46
  has gone down so I'm clicking on some of these
• 26:47
  links and the refuge worldwide is You heard what
• 26:52
  you said about the not being any unity in the
• 26:55
  community. Hey, I was just making an observation
• 26:57
  to keep this community up to the standards that
• 27:00
  we all expect of it. Well, it doesn't say unity
• 27:02
  in the community. Is that what I said? No, no,
• 27:05
  I didn't. Oh, I see. Anyway, I should have come
• 27:10
  in with that. That's not bad. No, no, I think
• 27:13
  obviously refuge is a place of accountability
• 27:16
  and I'm simply asking for some. I love refuge.
• 27:19
  I think it's great. If you like Pussy Gurt Dolls,
• 27:23
  Don't Sure, Beyonce, Crazy in Love, Britney Spears,
• 27:26
  Peace of Me, that's good. Cascada, What Hurts
• 27:28
  the Most? I don't know what that is. Yeah, I
• 27:30
  do, it was like a sort of, what I'd describe
• 27:32
  as a Scali trance record. Oh, right, yeah, yeah.
• 27:35
  It's like really rushy trance. Pretty green eyes
• 27:39
  core. Yeah, it's pretty green eyes coded. Christina
• 27:43
  Milian, Aim to Be. Great record. 50 Cent, I Get
• 27:46
  Money. Don't Remember That One. Yeah, I don't
• 27:48
  remember that one. We fly all about you, we hate,
• 27:51
  that's rubbish. And Kelly Carlson, since you've
• 27:53
  been gone, which is just, you know, that's a
• 27:55
  real national anthem of... I mean, they were
• 27:58
  a lot of good choices there that would hold up,
• 28:00
  you know, a wedding today, with the exception
• 28:02
  of 50 cents, money, I get it, or whatever it's
• 28:04
  called. So let's see, you know, let's do a sound
• 28:07
  clash between Alicia the... the plastic and Dean
• 28:09
  the hoodie. Let's give all of these people, I
• 28:13
  know we've only got an hour, but let's give them
• 28:15
  all fair space, really. We're about a quality.
• 28:18
  We do one episode each on every other. No, I
• 28:21
  just want to hear, count them down, who's next?
• 28:25
  Um, NuRaver. Okay, they're at what, number 11?
• 28:28
  Yeah. What have we got for NuRaver on the soundtrack?
• 28:31
  Because this was my shit at the time. Yeah, I
• 28:33
  mean... And it was very much, you know, you were
• 28:35
  in the thick of it. I was in it. I was Mr. New
• 28:37
  Raver, as they called me at the time. Well, didn't
• 28:39
  they call you Mr. Indy? Yeah. Well, Mr. Indy
• 28:43
  was probably earlier than Mr. New Raver. But
• 28:44
  Mr. New Raver doesn't. We had this like, OK,
• 28:48
  this guy is not a new raver or by the answers
• 28:50
  of his his like his. Well, you were on the front
• 28:55
  line of New Rave, so you'll be able to tell us.
• 28:56
  Well, and I'm saying, this guy ain't a New Raver.
• 28:59
  He's like talking about Michael Kamehameha Romance
• 29:01
  constantly, and that's just simply not... It
• 29:03
  was a slim pool of New Rave stuff for the sweaty
• 29:06
  summer of 2007 to choose from. There was, like,
• 29:09
  early Friendly Fires, Klaxon's, Shit Disco, Errol
• 29:13
  Alkan Remixes, Digitalism... CSS. CSS. Why went
• 29:17
  to the Enemy Indie Rave Tour, which was Sunshine
• 29:20
  Underground, CSS, Klaxon's... And somebody else.
• 29:29
  Crystal castles. Crystal castles. Yeah, yeah,
• 29:32
  yeah. Yeah, I think it was Crystal Castles. No,
• 29:36
  it wasn't. It was New Young Pony Club. Oh, right.
• 29:38
  OK. Fuck. Yeah. Anyway, that's way too remembering
• 29:41
  podcast. Let's let's let's keep a pace up. OK.
• 29:44
  So anyway, he seems to just be into. to My Chemical
• 29:49
  Romance. And that was when Black Parade came
• 29:51
  out around there. Yeah, but I think they've just
• 29:53
  got this mixed up. They just sent in some elderly,
• 29:57
  like, BBC... Yeah, yeah. Because I think that,
• 30:01
  okay, so the next archetype is a scene kid. Okay,
• 30:05
  now, again, I didn't really know what that meant
• 30:08
  at the time. I'd associate it, I suppose, with
• 30:11
  less so My Chemical Romance, but Fall Out Boy,
• 30:15
  Panic at the Disco. Am I right? Yeah, you're
• 30:18
  in the right ballpark, although it's so it goes
• 30:20
  from stuff like placebo to death from above 1979
• 30:25
  to back to placebo to the horrors. Right. So
• 30:32
  I guess it's just stuff. It's basically music
• 30:35
  for. for people who paint their nails black.
• 30:36
  They all just have haircuts. Yeah, exactly, yeah.
• 30:38
  It's just like someone who likes haircuts. Yeah,
• 30:40
  it's just slightly god -dressing stuff, but it's
• 30:44
  quite a broad church musically, right? Yeah,
• 30:46
  yeah, yeah. Okay, next up. Next up, Ben, who
• 30:50
  is a skater. okay so he's into well I mean it's
• 30:55
  not really a musical sub -genre but it sort of
• 30:57
  is isn't it like just report what's on the website
• 31:00
  Jack I'm taking the BBC's word as gospel okay
• 31:03
  my dad paid for this a skater likes Arctic Monkeys,
• 31:07
  The Offspring, Rolling Stones, Sum 41, NWA, Jimi
• 31:12
  Hendrix, The Dub Pistols, Cartel I don't know
• 31:16
  who that is and two Blink -182 songs Okay, right.
• 31:20
  They were running out of ideas which two blink
• 31:22
  182 songs aliens exist and reckless abandon,
• 31:26
  right? Okay, that's quite nice nice name for
• 31:28
  a song actually reckless abandons. Yeah sure
• 31:30
  I could don't know that from the blink Yeah,
• 31:34
  but yeah, I mean, I feel like these are just
• 31:36
  the songs that he likes like rock music Yeah,
• 31:38
  he mentions also next Will who's the techie?
• 31:49
  The definition says that it's a nerd, a techie,
• 31:53
  has a vast appreciation of computers, the internet,
• 31:55
  and general gadgetry. What, does he like chiptune
• 32:01
  music? Does he like... No, he likes fucking like
• 32:07
  Mondeo man music. I see, so he is an office IT
• 32:11
  guy. Well, exactly! Well, I know Razorlight are
• 32:16
  coming up later, so that's not gonna be there.
• 32:18
  I'm gonna say... Imagine Dragons aren't big yet?
• 32:21
  No, but it may as well be. Coldplay isn't in
• 32:25
  there, crazily enough. What is an Office IT guy
• 32:29
  in 2007 listening to? Pray Tell. Snow Patrol,
• 32:32
  The Feeling, The Fray, Lord of the Rings soundtrack.
• 32:36
  Okay, sick. That's great, isn't it? The Cause.
• 32:38
  Oh, God. you know like Green Day, Good Riddance,
• 32:43
  Time of Your Life, The Rembrandts, who would
• 32:46
  listen to that? Wasn't their biggest hit like
• 32:48
  1991? The Rembrandts, The Friends theme tune.
• 32:52
  Who would need to hear that song again? I never
• 32:55
  need to hear that bloody awful song ever. 2007,
• 32:58
  real dearth of Friends on television. Also the
• 33:01
  the Avenue Q musical soundtrack. Yeah which has
• 33:03
  a song called like uh you know Everyone's a Little
• 33:06
  Bit Racist. Okay right. And at the time in 2007
• 33:10
  when everyone thought racism was over, people
• 33:12
  loved that. Right, so yeah, it's like sort of
• 33:14
  South Parky humor. It's like puppets and they
• 33:15
  have sex. OK, right, right. Yes, I mean, that's
• 33:18
  great IT guy stuff, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:21
  But you know what, as long as he could update
• 33:24
  the McAfee antivirus software on my computer,
• 33:27
  I would listen to a little bit of the fray with
• 33:30
  him. I would say that, you know, given that he's...
• 33:32
  He's doing everything this weekend. He's like,
• 33:33
  no, I'm just going to go see my mum and then
• 33:36
  on Sunday I'm probably going to go and see Iron
• 33:39
  Man. Right, that's him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but
• 33:42
  yeah, that is what he's doing. I do I text him
• 33:45
  earlier actually I do know that Iron Man actually
• 33:46
  came out in 2008. So don't bother pointing that
• 33:48
  out Yeah, I think I think you're telling us that
• 33:51
  on yourself as actually no I realized then but
• 33:53
  I'm too pure not to to give away The I deep down
• 33:57
  and a bit of a Mondeo man myself, right? Okay.
• 33:59
  Yeah. No, that's I mean, that's perfect. I saw
• 34:01
  the devil wears Prada too last night That's our
• 34:03
  fucking Mondeo man. I am right right and if I
• 34:05
  was hit Mondeo men in 2007, mr. IT guy I really
• 34:08
  like the original Devil Wears Prada. Right, okay.
• 34:11
  I thought Devil Wears Prada was more of a plastic
• 34:13
  kind of film. It is, but it's also like just
• 34:16
  soft enough that if you just like kind of end,
• 34:18
  you know, like, if like music and culture for
• 34:21
  you is just like a thing that's there and it's
• 34:23
  nice sometimes, perfect tackle. Okay. Okay, I'll
• 34:27
  definitely get me into some more hardcore individuals.
• 34:30
  Okay, I just want to say that with with the techie,
• 34:33
  like, you know, because he is the technology
• 34:35
  guy, it's I feel like there's very much like
• 34:37
  the medium is the message kind of vibe going
• 34:39
  on. Because he's like, I like to listen to music
• 34:42
  on my iPod, mp3 player, mobile phone, satellite
• 34:45
  and cable systems, through Windows media player,
• 34:48
  real player, iTunes and online streaming. Yeah,
• 34:51
  well, when I Probably a few years earlier than
• 34:54
  this, when I tried to do like an online radio
• 34:56
  station that was like for a volunteer run online
• 34:59
  radio station where you'd just like log on, you
• 35:02
  know, it took months to get a slot to broadcast
• 35:05
  on this. But no, there was never any, very rarely
• 35:08
  any interesting music. It was just like the Frey
• 35:11
  and Imagine Dragons or the equivalent of that.
• 35:15
  And that was because the... almost exclusively
• 35:17
  men broadcasting on it. They love to broadcast,
• 35:20
  but they didn't really like music. Yeah, yeah,
• 35:22
  they just wanted to be like Chris Moyles. Right,
• 35:26
  that is kind of mental. I mean, but also like
• 35:28
  doing like hospital radio or something is exactly
• 35:32
  like that. I never did hospital radio, but as
• 35:34
  you can imagine, you know, this was bang up my
• 35:37
  street and I actually guested when I was... or
• 35:40
  how old would I have been? 14 on the local sort
• 35:44
  of syndicated breakfast show because I approached,
• 35:47
  they were having a road show in Asda car park
• 35:49
  and I went up to one of the hosts and I was like,
• 35:53
  hello, I'd like to be on the radio one day. Showed
• 35:58
  them. And look where you are. You're on a radio
• 36:02
  station with a mic in your hand. Still can't
• 36:05
  get me into that party any quicker, but there
• 36:07
  you go. Anyway, she was obviously taken by the
• 36:10
  fact that I was a little freak and was like,
• 36:12
  oh, you should show a guest on the show. So I
• 36:14
  went on the show, like during the half term.
• 36:19
  And, you know, people rang in and they were like,
• 36:22
  oh, the amusing thing was that they had like
• 36:24
  a precocious. child on the show. They've never
• 36:27
  had a child on the show, anyway. Or not one as
• 36:29
  precocious as ours. Okay, oh my god. So yeah,
• 36:33
  I had a little bit of this guy in me, I think.
• 36:37
  I bet, I bet. Yeah, just a little bit, yeah.
• 36:41
  Okay. But luckily new rave happened and got me
• 36:46
  to be cool. Yeah, you swerved over to a different
• 36:50
  subculture. Okay, the next one is Drama Teen.
• 36:53
  Right, what else is different to Blastik? Do
• 36:56
  they listen to Andrew Lloyd Webber's soundtracks
• 36:57
  and Tim Rice go? Basically, yeah. Memory by Katz?
• 37:03
  From Katz, if that's not by Katz. Wow. Yeah,
• 37:06
  I mean, okay, yeah. Elaine Page's rendition of
• 37:09
  Memory. It's not mentioned, but I think it's
• 37:11
  here in spirit, isn't it? Yeah. The Blue Man
• 37:16
  Group soundtrack, Stomp? No, but also, yes. What
• 37:21
  do you prefer, Blue Man Group or Stomp? I haven't,
• 37:25
  I don't know, I've actually... Which one appeals
• 37:27
  to you in theory? I've been to a Blue Man Group
• 37:29
  performance and I was... made to go on stage
• 37:32
  as well you get paint thrown over you and stuff
• 37:34
  sorry did you get paint thrown on you and no
• 37:36
  no no it was a bit more rubbish like i just had
• 37:39
  to go into a hole and then they showed this vt
• 37:42
  that was meant to be what's happening to me oh
• 37:43
  i see and then i came back what was happening
• 37:46
  in the hole you still don't know because you
• 37:48
  were in the hole yeah yeah i was in like you
• 37:50
  know um you know i don't know just a load of
• 37:53
  crazy madcap blue man uh classic stuff yeah yeah
• 37:56
  i should have asked you before we started the
• 37:59
  podcast and maybe even before we became friends.
• 38:02
  Which do you prefer the Blue Man Group or Stomp?
• 38:04
  I mean, I remember Stomp being really big on
• 38:06
  say stuff like Blue Peter back in the day. I
• 38:08
  mean, really, it was like heating up tea time.
• 38:11
  I think it's coming to Berlin soon, isn't it?
• 38:12
  I did see a poster for it, but Blue Man Group
• 38:14
  is here as well still. Right. So I hope it's
• 38:16
  not like a kind of, you know, West Side Story
• 38:18
  style fight in Potsdamer Platz. I think, I think
• 38:21
  - Because my money's on the Blue Men. I'm going
• 38:23
  to go Stomp I think. I think I'm sick of Blue
• 38:26
  Man Group, it's really rubbish. Okay, no worries.
• 38:28
  And it's just everywhere, it's too syndicated
• 38:30
  and too lame. It has gone mainstream. Tell you
• 38:33
  what, I would take Riverdance over either of
• 38:36
  them as well. I think Riverdance was the worst.
• 38:38
  Is Riverdance in the list? No it's not, but thank
• 38:41
  you for drawing attention. What is in the list?
• 38:43
  That I was just diverting for a bit. Okay, so
• 38:45
  next we've got the Skark, oh, from on her list.
• 38:49
  Yeah, uh Grand Theft Autumn by Fall Out Boy.
• 38:52
  I don't know. She's she's stealing all the scenes
• 38:54
  to stuff Huber stank. Oh the reason Huber stank.
• 38:57
  I do quite like that song actually And the reason
• 39:01
  is you The Middle by Jimmy Eat World again great
• 39:06
  That Girl by McFly Don't know Breathless by Shane
• 39:10
  Ward. Isn't Shane Ward someone who's in Westlife?
• 39:13
  Oh was he? Okay, right. I don't know why he's
• 39:15
  there You know, it's a broad church being a drama
• 39:18
  team. I think essentially though... I guess they
• 39:20
  like the performance element of Shane Ward, you
• 39:22
  know. Like the skateboarder, you know, it's not
• 39:25
  really defined by the playlist. The playlist
• 39:27
  is by the by. I see, okay. Well, unfortunately,
• 39:29
  we don't have the time to delve further into
• 39:31
  these, honestly, ambiguous. Okay. So we are beginning
• 39:35
  to approach... the, you know, the Pista resistance
• 39:38
  of Alternative Youth Culture of 2007. So who
• 39:41
  have we got to go through before we hit that?
• 39:44
  Um, we've got, uh, the Scar Kid. Basketballer.
• 39:49
  Scar Kid will just be madness, right? Yeah, I
• 39:51
  think your dad gives you madness and you listen
• 39:54
  to that. It's very it but then it's also Annoying
• 39:58
  American stuff and like, you know real big fish.
• 40:01
  Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's totally
• 40:05
  yeah awful the Okay, then there's the basketballer
• 40:10
  I'd be pretty close. There's a Kelly on it. Uncle
• 40:17
  Jam Are you skip ball soundtrack? No, Slim Thug,
• 40:25
  Bow Wow, Chris Brown. Gosh, I mean, yeah, I mean,
• 40:29
  it's I mean, it's pretty, you know, it's pretty
• 40:32
  big, big American hip hop records. And then there's
• 40:36
  Jenny, the campaigner. I wonder what she's got.
• 40:39
  So Nancy Boyle. Jenny, the campaign is essentially
• 40:42
  like just someone who cares about social issues,
• 40:44
  which. into that's right right this is what it
• 40:47
  means she's like invested in politics and her
• 40:50
  community yeah essentially she's a little busy
• 40:52
  body um yeah i mean i don't know because again
• 40:56
  they probably works here they once again munched
• 40:59
  up the uh the questionnaire so i can't see what
• 41:02
  i see i mean but you know back then That wasn't
• 41:06
  cool to care about things in 2007. Yeah, I mean,
• 41:09
  obviously the Green Party exists, so maybe you'd
• 41:11
  be a member of that. Well, the Green Party did
• 41:12
  exist. It didn't quite have the coverage it's
• 41:14
  getting, positive or negative, this week. Yeah,
• 41:16
  no, it was probably holding at like 2%. It was
• 41:18
  for, as my less politically correct uncles would
• 41:22
  say, it's for yoghurt weavers. That's quite cool.
• 41:25
  Whereas this is, you know, 2007, I remember,
• 41:29
  I was thinking about... The character of Hermione
• 41:30
  Granger in Harry Potter. You know, the whole
• 41:33
  thing with her characters, she's like... She's
• 41:36
  annoyed because the elves are slaves, essentially.
• 41:40
  She's always like, that's bad, everyone's like,
• 41:42
  fuck off, will you? Yeah, but like, that's the
• 41:44
  voice of JK, just JK Rowling's like, ultra conservative
• 41:47
  voice coming through. We know that now, her like,
• 41:50
  new labor -brained, you know, the economy will,
• 41:52
  the market will decide kind of voice. But back
• 41:55
  then, I reckon the campaigner was kind of, they'd
• 41:58
  have more power nowadays. And there's also more
• 42:02
  campaigning music to listen to now, isn't there?
• 42:05
  There's more politics. She'd like Necap now,
• 42:07
  probably. Yeah, I mean, I wonder what would a
• 42:10
  campaigner be up to in 2007, I guess. It would
• 42:13
  be, you know, like they'd be going to see Radiohead
• 42:17
  in 10. I mean, Radiohead were like the only political
• 42:21
  band I liked. Right. Not into a Radiance machine.
• 42:25
  I always thought that was a bit too on the nose
• 42:28
  for me. The fact that Radiohead made me aware
• 42:30
  of to bear or they had an environmental policy
• 42:33
  for their show. or, for example, refuse to say
• 42:36
  anything about the ongoing genocide in Gaza.
• 42:39
  All just stuff that I love about Radiohead. Well,
• 42:42
  yeah, I mean, they've slightly derailed their
• 42:44
  good politics vibe. What's your problem? What
• 42:48
  would you expect from us, people who've spent
• 42:51
  decades lecturing you on what to do? It's insane
• 42:54
  now. Anyway, let us not derail the podcast. Come
• 42:57
  on the pod, Radiohead. Colin could come on the
• 42:59
  pod. Yeah, sure. I'll send him a letter. um the
• 43:05
  uh okay so hip hop if you're into hip hop then
• 43:13
  Yeah, you're into... Phil Collins is on this...
• 43:16
  Phil Collins is in the hip -hop list? Yeah, yeah.
• 43:18
  That's ludicrous. It's 2007. Hip -hop is already
• 43:20
  the, like, prevalent musical form in the West.
• 43:23
  Kind of cool though. So yeah, there's a lot of
• 43:26
  two -pack, four two -pack tracks. Casey and Jojo,
• 43:28
  Angel for a Love. Come on, mate. Yeah, yeah,
• 43:31
  exactly. This is 2007. It's great, it's great.
• 43:34
  No, I don't know. I mean, I feel like this, you
• 43:37
  know, this stuff is... I think the fun thing
• 43:39
  about this is the idea of like, are you a moshah?
• 43:42
  Are you a hoodie? Are you a plastic? Are you
• 43:45
  a sporty? Are you a new raver? Are you a scene
• 43:47
  kid? Are you a skater? Are you a techie? Are
• 43:50
  you a drama kid, teen? Are you a scar kid? Are
• 43:52
  you a basketballer? Are you campaigner? Are you
• 43:54
  hip hop? Or are you indie? I am... Remain was
• 44:00
  very much in the way Okay, great. Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:05
  Now this brings us to you know, the star of this
• 44:09
  The breakout hit of this. In fact, I go as far
• 44:12
  as saying the BBC switch, which did close after
• 44:15
  a few years, despite the stewardship of Annie
• 44:17
  Mack and Grimshaw, Nick Grimshaw, who were the
• 44:19
  face of youth. Close personal friends. Yeah,
• 44:22
  close personal friends, big, big fans of the
• 44:24
  band. And we presume we're going to be big fans
• 44:26
  of the ambient R &B stuff you're working on.
• 44:28
  I don't know. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. We'll
• 44:31
  see. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a radio plug or I can
• 44:33
  put you into it. Yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah.
• 44:37
  So. The big hit of this was Amy the Indie, who
• 44:40
  went... Whatever the 2007 form of viral was,
• 44:45
  there was no meme, there was no viral, but she
• 44:48
  was big. And she was a indie kid from the North
• 44:54
  West of England, and all the material about her
• 44:57
  hasn't really been scrubbed in the same way that
• 45:00
  the rest of the subcultures have been, simply
• 45:04
  because she went... Her stuff was posted on YouTube
• 45:09
  and elsewhere where it is preserved with a kind
• 45:13
  of gauzy 2007 VHS upload ambience which gives
• 45:18
  it an eerie edge in my opinion. So she... Well
• 45:24
  we'll hear a little bit of it now because it's
• 45:29
  quite specific. I'm 17 and I'm an Indie. There's
• 45:46
  three main things that define Indie. You've got
• 45:49
  to read the NME, that's a bit like the Indie
• 45:51
  Bible. Hairspray, that's like the holy water
• 45:54
  I guess. And you've got to go to lots of gigs,
• 45:58
  be really into music, that's important. You've
• 46:01
  got to wear clothes that your grandma would have
• 46:03
  worn back in the day. That is important. Even
• 46:06
  if you look bad, they have to be vintage. A lot
• 46:09
  of people say that we have spray on jeans. It
• 46:12
  doesn't faze us. People at school think it's
• 46:14
  great that I'm indie. They're a bit perplexed
• 46:18
  by me sometimes. Not sort of up to date with
• 46:20
  my indie ways. But they love it, yeah. In my
• 46:24
  spare time, I take a lot of photos and stuff.
• 46:26
  I like to photograph bands. I like to paint and
• 46:29
  stuff. I do that a lot. I'm in a band, yeah,
• 46:32
  but we don't practice a lot. We just practice
• 46:34
  in my shed. I think we're called Panda Wolf at
• 46:38
  the moment, but our name changes every week because
• 46:41
  that's the indie thing to do. So there you heard
• 46:43
  the beginning of Amy's introduction to indie
• 46:48
  as it existed in 2007. I cannot over estimate
• 46:55
  the... Almost culture war ruckus this caused
• 46:59
  in 2007, right? Okay when well in which kind
• 47:02
  of spaces like the spaces that I Frequented which
• 47:06
  were kind of music forums or roller coaster forums.
• 47:09
  She didn't reach the roller coaster forums. She
• 47:12
  wasn't there yet They were still very much only
• 47:16
  four of men over 40. Okay with undiagnosed neurodivergence
• 47:22
  Whereas now it's men and women under 40 all with
• 47:26
  neurodivergence. With very much diagnosed. Yeah,
• 47:33
  so, yeah, and then, you know, the idea of selling
• 47:36
  out or call or the tail end of Generation X kind
• 47:42
  of thinking was there. And there had been bands
• 47:45
  such as Razorlight, who was here in a moment
• 47:50
  or her favorite band of Kaiser Chiefs. They become
• 47:55
  very big in the last few years on a mainstream
• 47:57
  level they sold millions of albums and they were
• 48:00
  presented very much as indie alternative although
• 48:04
  they were uh you know record label creations
• 48:07
  if not creations but they had huge support and
• 48:11
  i suppose that became known as landfill indie
• 48:14
  after a while so when you were in friendly fires
• 48:17
  which you probably began when you were a teenager
• 48:19
  but around this time the band were Touring, I
• 48:21
  guess? Yeah, 2007 we were probably a year in
• 48:26
  front of putting out our first record. So there
• 48:28
  were like sloggy sort of crummy guitar music
• 48:32
  that wasn't particularly evolved. When you were
• 48:34
  making like kind of dance music, which very much
• 48:36
  appealed to me around that time and seemed cooler
• 48:40
  than what Indy, Amy was listening to, were you
• 48:43
  deliberately kind of trying to kick it against
• 48:45
  the pricks with that kind of thing? I mean, I
• 48:47
  think that like by, I feel like by sort of, you
• 48:52
  know, 1999, it wasn't really that cool to, you
• 48:56
  know, Trad Indy had sort of done its thing. Yeah.
• 48:59
  And, you know, like all the big kind of... I
• 49:02
  guess Oasis had just consumed everything. Exactly.
• 49:04
  Like, you know, Hope had released their best
• 49:06
  stuff. But yeah, I don't know. I think there
• 49:09
  was definitely like... I think we definitely
• 49:11
  didn't really want to be a really 4 -4 -2 kind
• 49:14
  of, you know, Me and Potato's indie rock band,
• 49:17
  because there was plenty of that in the world.
• 49:19
  I mean, there were bands I liked, you know, like
• 49:23
  Franz Ferdinand, you know, who had a bit more
• 49:26
  of a genuine article and sensibility. They were
• 49:28
  a bit older and they, you know, they were also
• 49:31
  kind of a dance band, you know? Yeah, I suppose
• 49:33
  so. There was a bit of a dance influence, whereas
• 49:35
  there was none of that amongst, yeah, Razorlight,
• 49:41
  Pigeon Detectives. Yeah, that's a really unique
• 49:43
  band. A lot of the bands that came from Sheffield.
• 49:45
  But, you know, as time's gone by, I realised
• 49:48
  that they... I know people who still go and see
• 49:51
  them, whose taste has developed since, not that
• 49:55
  that's a, you know, requisite thing that needs
• 49:59
  to happen, but it kind of, you know, something
• 50:02
  about that Sheffield Sweaty Lads band scene,
• 50:06
  you know, as you, you know, Friendly Fires until
• 50:10
  you left, you were still touring, you know? I
• 50:14
  mean, obviously you made records more recently,
• 50:15
  but it... I think if you're a teenager and you
• 50:23
  like a band, the band can really take you through
• 50:26
  the decades really. If I had a million pounds,
• 50:29
  I'd buy Johnny Borrell. He'd sing over Razorlight,
• 50:31
  my favourite band. I'd just keep him in a glass
• 50:35
  container in my bedroom. I love Razorlight. I
• 50:45
  have one song that changed my life when I was
• 50:48
  listening to Radio 1, you know, when I was like
• 50:50
  14. Golden Touch by Razorite came on, and that's
• 50:54
  when I became indie. I was thinking about this
• 50:57
  today because I sort of feel like... You think
• 50:58
  it was a mistake leaving? I don't know, I feel
• 51:01
  like the jury's still out. But the... What was
• 51:05
  I going to say? I feel like back in the day it
• 51:08
  was just very easy to... do a band do you know
• 51:11
  i mean like there was all the the there were
• 51:14
  venues there and you know the loads of infrastructure
• 51:17
  kind of needed filling every week with like three
• 51:19
  bands to play absolutely you know like it's it's
• 51:22
  kind of mental how hard it is to find your way
• 51:26
  into things i mean i sort of i was trying to
• 51:29
  think who wants to put on my little live thing
• 51:31
  which obviously i haven't is very is a bit embryonic
• 51:34
  but it just doesn't really fit into many spaces
• 51:38
  and you're in belin where there is space for,
• 51:41
  you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, I don't
• 51:44
  know, like, I think it was, what felt apparent
• 51:47
  was that just the infrastructure for band stuff
• 51:50
  was really, you know, was there if you wanted
• 51:54
  to use it. Yeah. Indie Amy really wound people
• 51:58
  up significantly. And one of these videos has
• 52:01
  got like a caption which is like, how long can
• 52:03
  you last before raging? That's that is crazy.
• 52:07
  I mean that that was written in 2009. I think
• 52:11
  about how the internet is now just a constantly
• 52:14
  rotating rage generator and what people get dragged
• 52:19
  into now and yeah it seems maybe it didn't seem
• 52:25
  to uh Amy uh this might not be because she was
• 52:29
  the subject of the rage but it seemed mad that
• 52:31
  people would be wound up by a kid in a cardigan
• 52:36
  who liked playing guitar and liked vintage stuff
• 52:41
  and you know it's a very top man idea of indie
• 52:45
  and when I was a teenager I was mainly into pop
• 52:48
  music I wasn't really into any kind of subculture
• 52:51
  because, as I observed earlier, I was just kind
• 52:55
  of strange in general and didn't need it. But,
• 52:57
  you know, I did start going to gigs and clubs
• 53:00
  eventually. And this indie kind of sensibility,
• 53:03
  the indie you see here through Indie Amy, was
• 53:08
  something that appealed to me. I knew Razorlight
• 53:10
  was shit, but this seemed like an accessible
• 53:13
  world to me. It seemed like... It checked out
• 53:18
  for me and I would go out in skinny jeans and
• 53:21
  a black top man cardigan a sort of white skinny
• 53:23
  t -shirt with a bit of a fringe and I'd I'd feel
• 53:28
  like I I was fitting fitting into something even
• 53:32
  though I knew a lot of the music was kind of
• 53:35
  naff. It felt accessible to me. I'm not far from
• 53:40
  where Amy is here in the North West of England,
• 53:42
  but I didn't grow up in Manchester or Liverpool.
• 53:45
  So, subculture didn't really happen at my school
• 53:47
  until Indie happened. And all of a sudden, people
• 53:51
  were into the Libertines and Razorlight, and
• 53:54
  I think it provided, apart from the odd goth,
• 53:57
  it provided the first cultural turning point.
• 54:01
  in the mid -noughties in my high school. Right,
• 54:03
  interesting. So this had an enormous impact.
• 54:05
  All of this, what has since been referred to
• 54:08
  as landfill indie. Right, right. People seemed
• 54:10
  really liberated by it. We're Amy's friends.
• 54:14
  I don't think we belong in particular tribes,
• 54:16
  but Amy, she certainly does. Amy's in a tribe
• 54:18
  of her own. Amy is the indie. But there's obviously
• 54:22
  judging guys who just feel like whatever you
• 54:24
  wear or whatever music influence you can sum
• 54:27
  you up, which there's no nice way to be, but...
• 54:30
  Yeah, I wouldn't say I feel defensive. What I'm
• 54:33
  trying to say is I would have fancied Amy. right
• 54:35
  around then I mean I should stress I've done
• 54:38
  better and I'm a few years older than her but
• 54:39
  like this would have appealed her sort of studied
• 54:43
  quirkiness which I now would associate with like
• 54:46
  no fielding in the mighty bush which again she's
• 54:49
  a bit less annoying than no field no that's not
• 54:51
  fair yeah you're right you're right you're right
• 54:53
  I feel when I have a him on the pod now Jack
• 54:56
  if he is come on pod no no I don't know from
• 55:00
  what I understand it might be a bad idea yeah
• 55:03
  so she is um yeah people are really raging with
• 55:08
  her and were at the time and were for years afterwards
• 55:10
  but i think that she is taking the piss is the
• 55:15
  other thing as well like that that seems obvious
• 55:17
  to me and i watched it again today and you know
• 55:20
  she's showing people around her room and she's
• 55:22
  like Here's the cover of Libertyne's in there.
• 55:24
  There's Pete and Carla and then there's some
• 55:26
  old woman on it. And then she says something
• 55:28
  like, you've got to wear skinny jeans if you're
• 55:31
  Indian. I've actually got some skinny jeans on
• 55:32
  that really chafed my legs and they're painful,
• 55:35
  but it's the only way to prove that you're Indian
• 55:37
  is to wear the skinniest jeans possible. And
• 55:39
  she is wearing skinny jeans, but I think she's
• 55:42
  also, you know, playing up the outrageous kind
• 55:48
  of... expectations people have about this to
• 55:51
  wind up old men on the internet who themselves
• 55:54
  think they're indie. I think being self -deprecating
• 55:56
  is very very indie. Yeah I think so yeah and
• 55:59
  I think the you know yeah she's kind of going
• 56:03
  through the you know she she knows what the tropes
• 56:06
  are and but she still loves them yeah I respect
• 56:09
  that that's I suppose that's that's an essential
• 56:12
  sort of style tribe kind of thing you know no
• 56:16
  one if you're if you're a biker then you don't
• 56:20
  turn your nose up at leather no very well it's
• 56:22
  just part of the it's part of the network yeah
• 56:25
  and so she goes to galleries and stuff like that
• 56:27
  she eats a 12 pound pizza in Liverpool which
• 56:31
  is quite expensive even for 2007 yeah well you
• 56:35
  see her you see her parents house and it's like
• 56:38
  Cheshire It's five bedrooms, I reckon. So I think
• 56:45
  that also kind of annoyed people a little bit.
• 56:46
  Very good, yeah. I think that also annoyed people
• 56:49
  about it, that indie was popular amongst kind
• 56:53
  of middle -class Cheshire kids. In my experience,
• 56:56
  it was for some culture that spoke to them, and
• 56:58
  it was because they could go to Topman and...
• 57:01
  give Sir Philip Green, you know, 200 quid. I
• 57:03
  wonder who so like the people who were like online
• 57:07
  raging about Indie Amy wonder what's in their
• 57:10
  playlist. Now or then, yeah, yeah. There's a
• 57:14
  lot of discourse underneath on Indie Amy. One
• 57:17
  guy says something that's so offensive that other
• 57:19
  people encourage him to delete it. And then he
• 57:22
  came back years later. So, you know, there's
• 57:24
  nearly 20 years of discourse on this. And he's
• 57:26
  like, I just want to apologize for what I said
• 57:28
  at the time. I'm not that guy. Right, right.
• 57:30
  Well, you were, mate. No, but we've got to allow
• 57:34
  for him to take accountability, which he did.
• 57:37
  Under, you know his anonymous YouTube account
• 57:39
  and he came back years later. It's clearly been
• 57:41
  keeping him up, right? So now a lot of people
• 57:44
  leave comments like I wonder what Indie Amy is
• 57:46
  up to nowadays and there are there is some Insight
• 57:53
  into this a couple of other comments quickly
• 57:56
  Maz best says good luck when you go to uni and
• 57:58
  someone digs this up Tragic who cares? Yeah.
• 58:02
  Yeah, I mean Yeah, someone else has a little
• 58:06
  mate. Yeah She looks like she was animated by
• 58:09
  Aardman. Now, that is, that's cruel, but it is
• 58:12
  accurate. It's sort of funny. I mean, she looks
• 58:14
  like the guitarist from the horrors. Yes. Yeah,
• 58:17
  yeah, yeah. She's got that kind of like fuzzy,
• 58:19
  thick hair, cardigan, you know, Victoriana almost
• 58:23
  look. Anyway, there's another comment here from
• 58:26
  JDH190101. Sorry, I got that wrong. I need to
• 58:31
  do this justice. JDH190101 0190. and he says
• 58:38
  I actually knew Amy years after this she's really
• 58:42
  nice and made folk music she was a bit embarrassed
• 58:45
  by this I think people were quite mean to her
• 58:47
  I remember seeing this video back then and it
• 58:49
  being a bit cringe but watching it just now I
• 58:52
  don't get that at all she comes across as charming
• 58:54
  and funny especially given how young she is Everyone
• 58:57
  who still laughs at this are honestly probably
• 59:00
  really boring people. I think just being yourself
• 59:02
  and a bit of a dork is the norm nowadays. I remember
• 59:05
  getting into Arctic Monkeys and Franz Ferdinand
• 59:07
  in school and getting laughed at because people
• 59:09
  thought I was saying Indian music as they'd never
• 59:12
  heard of Indie. A year later, they all listened
• 59:15
  to Kaiser Chiefs and Razorlight. So it goes.
• 59:18
  Anyway, not sure what you're... So it goes. No,
• 59:21
  that's very nice. Salinger reference fair from
• 59:25
  JD ho zero one ago. Sorry, just checking just
• 59:30
  checking Anyway, not sure what she's up to these
• 59:34
  days, but I bet she's still more interesting
• 59:36
  than the lot of you Certainly more interesting
• 59:38
  to me. Yeah, definitely and That's why she'll
• 59:43
  be joining me I did I did I did track her down
• 59:53
  Yeah, yeah. I didn't know how much you were going
• 59:55
  to talk about that. Well, I can talk about it.
• 59:57
  I can't give away what her name is. Which website
• 1:00:00
  you did it on? I did it on a professional networking
• 1:00:03
  website. I didn't find her on her personal socials
• 1:00:08
  or anything. But a few years ago, I was chatting
• 1:00:11
  with someone who knew her name. I put the name
• 1:00:14
  in. Her Instagram isn't there anymore. She did
• 1:00:16
  have like... There was also a parody. Indie Amy
• 1:00:20
  like Twitter or my space is where people would
• 1:00:24
  be less witty than she is in this and Yeah, I
• 1:00:28
  found I'm pretty confident is her seems to look
• 1:00:31
  like her obviously. She doesn't look the same
• 1:00:33
  that would be mad Exactly the same like frozen
• 1:00:38
  like an amber India amber But she's yeah, she
• 1:00:43
  seems all right. She is not in music However,
• 1:00:46
  she is in I can't really give much away here,
• 1:00:50
  but her indie roots are still there. She is head
• 1:00:54
  of a department in another discipline, but has
• 1:01:02
  a bit of an indie sensibility about it. Lockheed
• 1:01:05
  Martin? Yes, that's right. She's working for
• 1:01:09
  it. for Lockheed Martin in their social media
• 1:01:13
  outreach campaign. To prove all the good things
• 1:01:17
  that Lockheed Martin do, along with the negative
• 1:01:19
  things you hear about their weapons of mass destruction.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah, so much. So much. But attention goes on,
• 1:01:24
  like, just the blowing people up is crazy. Yeah.
• 1:01:26
  Give them a chance. Yeah, from what I can see,
• 1:01:29
  she's been married. And I'm really pleased for
• 1:01:35
  her. Yeah, I'm pleased for her too. I think she
• 1:01:37
  comes across very well and, you know, I mean,
• 1:01:41
  you know, like, it's not great to be liking the
• 1:01:44
  Cooke's and the... And her obsession with Johnny
• 1:01:48
  Borrow as well, like, you know. Yeah, those bands
• 1:01:52
  are bad. well they're just a certain kind of
• 1:01:56
  thing aren't they yeah i mean the kooks are still
• 1:01:59
  inexplicably massive they're naturally sold out
• 1:02:00
  their biggest their biggest ever show last year
• 1:02:03
  and they're having hits like they're having like
• 1:02:06
  really yeah yeah yeah fair play i guess yeah
• 1:02:09
  i i suppose reef reef are still doing it yeah
• 1:02:12
  reef is still at it cast are still at it i mean
• 1:02:14
  they predate this um There's a lot of kind of
• 1:02:18
  festivals in the Manchester area and I guess
• 1:02:20
  around the UK where, you know, you can go and
• 1:02:22
  see cast, Ocean Court scene. Yeah, dodgy. Dodgy,
• 1:02:25
  and then afterwards a Craig Charles, Funk and
• 1:02:26
  Soul set. God, that's a... I don't know what
• 1:02:29
  the equivalent of that is in Germany. My conclusion
• 1:02:31
  on this is not so much about her, although it
• 1:02:35
  is an interesting curio at the time, but... Mainly
• 1:02:39
  that people were worked up into such a fuss about
• 1:02:42
  this and nowadays the kings of you know video
• 1:02:45
  content on the internet are you know Absolute
• 1:02:49
  monsters what as in the people who are popular
• 1:02:53
  be it be it like a you know We talking about
• 1:02:57
  DJs dancing around in front of the camera. No
• 1:02:59
  I mean like you know tick tock people who do
• 1:03:02
  like pranks and happy slapping and whatnot I
• 1:03:06
  mean obviously that kind of thing was going on
• 1:03:08
  I suppose people took against this, like I said,
• 1:03:10
  because it was meant to be indie and they found
• 1:03:12
  it impure. But we're also now at a point where,
• 1:03:15
  like, there are still indie bands, obviously,
• 1:03:17
  at the moment, you know, some of whom are pretty
• 1:03:19
  good. But the expectations of being indie and
• 1:03:22
  cool and underground have been so diluted by,
• 1:03:26
  you know, brand partnerships and the sort of,
• 1:03:30
  you know, necessity for, you know, visibility
• 1:03:35
  that nobody can remain cool. I mean, I think
• 1:03:39
  that it was, I think by the time Indie Amy came
• 1:03:43
  along, I don't think the independent thing really
• 1:03:46
  meant anything. No, it didn't really. But to
• 1:03:48
  her, it probably did. She was probably, as I
• 1:03:51
  was at that time, she was still aware of the
• 1:03:54
  idea of what Indie was, I think. Whereas I don't,
• 1:04:00
  and again, I'm not saying like, you know, the
• 1:04:02
  kids aren't all right. They have different philosophies.
• 1:04:06
  value systems, but I don't think the idea of
• 1:04:09
  like, you know, staying underground, staying
• 1:04:10
  cool, staying indie is in the conversation at
• 1:04:15
  all anymore. No, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think.
• 1:04:21
  I would say that like a sort of a search for
• 1:04:24
  authenticity is always going to be part of growing
• 1:04:26
  up and always going to be part of being a teenager.
• 1:04:29
  So I would I wonder whether it just comes in
• 1:04:31
  other places. Amy actually said something on
• 1:04:34
  the video just quite quickly and passively that
• 1:04:37
  stuck with me, which is I like being a teenager
• 1:04:41
  because when you're a teenager, everything you
• 1:04:43
  do is new. That's great. It's true. And I suppose.
• 1:04:49
  In my defense of her, which I have brought upon
• 1:04:54
  completely myself, nobody's asked me. I've simply
• 1:04:57
  sat in here in a basement on the warmest evening
• 1:05:00
  of the year so far and decided that she's alright.
• 1:05:04
  But I think that's true and I think I... When
• 1:05:08
  I was a teenager, I was anxious and precocious
• 1:05:11
  and I was desperate to be an adult. But you don't
• 1:05:14
  appreciate that everything is new. Sometimes
• 1:05:17
  the new thing is... a Razor Light single. But,
• 1:05:22
  you know, if it connects, it connects, doesn't
• 1:05:24
  it? Where were you when you first heard the Golden
• 1:05:26
  Touch by Razor Light? I was in a car. I mean,
• 1:05:31
  I actually can tell you. Really? I was in a car
• 1:05:34
  being driven back from town by my mum. We were
• 1:05:37
  listening to Radio 1 and it charted quite high,
• 1:05:41
  not very indie. And they popped up and said,
• 1:05:45
  well, but yeah, we can't believe it. And that's
• 1:05:47
  when I first heard, that's when I first heard
• 1:05:49
  Golden Touch. But as we have discussed in the
• 1:05:52
  past, America is my favorite Razorlight song.
• 1:05:55
  I've been watching all of the Iran War footage
• 1:05:57
  with the volume off and America by Razorlight.
• 1:06:00
  And yeah, as they say, I'm sorry. Doesn't make
• 1:06:04
  any sense to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No,
• 1:06:06
  yeah, so true. It means nothing to me. He foresaw
• 1:06:09
  it all. I've written down like a number of Johnny
• 1:06:12
  Borrell quotes just to... That'll be a good finish,
• 1:06:14
  yeah. OK. I'll maybe save the... I've got...
• 1:06:18
  I mean, these are all amazing. I'm the Charles
• 1:06:20
  Dickens of songwriting. Good. Yeah. I'm the only
• 1:06:25
  person who's actually lived up to the hype. That's
• 1:06:30
  great. oh man I think this is my okay this is
• 1:06:35
  my favorite one okay compared to the Razorlight
• 1:06:39
  album Dylan is just making chips he's making
• 1:06:42
  chips man does he mean Dylan like as of the last
• 1:06:47
  20 years Bob Dylan I guess I knew which Dylan
• 1:06:51
  you man I was asking you to clarify which Dylan
• 1:06:54
  he was talking about Who might be a chip chef.
• 1:06:58
  Might be just his friend. Some bloke over there.
• 1:07:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who used to be in the band
• 1:07:01
  and got chucked out. I think that Dylan, it is
• 1:07:05
  possible that Razorlight, with at least one of
• 1:07:09
  their first two albums, were at one point producing
• 1:07:12
  better music than Midnaughty's pop music. Right,
• 1:07:14
  okay, okay. I've got friends who would disown
• 1:07:17
  me for even suggesting that. But I reckon it
• 1:07:20
  could be the case. Okay, right. I mean, actually,
• 1:07:23
  I can't... I don't think I've heard any mid -noughties,
• 1:07:26
  Bob doesn't, so... Nobody on any podcast ever
• 1:07:29
  has proposed a Dylan versus Johnny Farrell. I
• 1:07:33
  think it's... maybe it's worth it. It's an argument
• 1:07:35
  worth having. Okay. Oh, there's more? Yeah, this
• 1:07:39
  is good. I'm the only person who can make a 14
• 1:07:42
  -year -old girl cry and a 40 -year -old man think.
• 1:07:47
  That's good, isn't it? No, I can literally think
• 1:07:50
  of several high -profile paedophiles who have
• 1:07:53
  managed to achieve that. Yeah, but it doesn't
• 1:07:55
  make them 40 -year -old men. Oh, yeah. It does
• 1:07:57
  make them think. It makes them think, oh, I shouldn't
• 1:07:59
  have taken better care of my child's internet
• 1:08:05
  access than my niece. Yeah, I mean... God forbid.
• 1:08:09
  Yeah, that's a classy way to round off this world.
• 1:08:14
  Oh! Trouble in America. I mean, we'll never see
• 1:08:20
  it again. Do you have any thoughts from the front
• 1:08:22
  line back then? I like a bit of Keen. You know,
• 1:08:25
  they're not even... Somewhere Only We Know by
• 1:08:26
  Keen. Yeah, beautiful song. I had mumps once
• 1:08:28
  and my face changed shape and blew up, which
• 1:08:33
  is... It's like in theme hospital, you know,
• 1:08:35
  you just inflate. And for a week I looked exactly
• 1:08:39
  like Tom from Keen. Okay, that's good. But then
• 1:08:42
  he got addicted to heroin and now he doesn't
• 1:08:44
  have a big face anymore. Really? Yeah. Whereas
• 1:08:46
  actually that affected my... I literally never
• 1:08:50
  recovered from that. Right, fuck. And that's
• 1:08:52
  why I developed my crippling addiction to heroin.
• 1:08:54
  Oh right, okay, okay. Yeah, I've made a little
• 1:08:58
  list of bands out of no real choice. Are these
• 1:09:01
  bands that exist or are you pitching them to
• 1:09:03
  me? No, they were... They're just bands that
• 1:09:06
  were like active in 2007 and that would have...
• 1:09:09
  peaked in the Amy's interest, I think. Okay.
• 1:09:13
  The vaccines, Viva Brother. Neither of these
• 1:09:16
  were active in 2007. Really? Viva Brother came
• 1:09:20
  around 2009, 10, same with the vaccines. Okay,
• 1:09:22
  sorry, okay. Should be sorry. Spectre, they were
• 1:09:26
  actually later. Spectre also were later. Okay,
• 1:09:30
  I think most of these are later, fuck it all.
• 1:09:32
  Miles Cain. Yeah, he was also my... Releasing
• 1:09:37
  music a little bit later. I think right because
• 1:09:40
  he didn't know no. No, he was active in 2007
• 1:09:43
  Yeah, he probably was Young knives. Yeah, they
• 1:09:48
  were in 2007 and I obviously liked them Yeah,
• 1:09:52
  okay. Okay. The name of the game one of them
• 1:09:54
  was called House of Lords. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Bromhead's
• 1:09:58
  jacket My dad right my dad has all of my burn
• 1:10:05
  CDs from 2007 I download things off limewire
• 1:10:08
  or I was on a Sheffield based indie music forum
• 1:10:13
  called Dancing Jesus and I get all the leaks
• 1:10:16
  off there basically and it was people I met on
• 1:10:18
  there I still know and that so Bromance jacket
• 1:10:22
  I had that I had little man tape I had a bunch
• 1:10:27
  of these bands and I burned them off onto CD
• 1:10:30
  and like would have him in my dad's car. I then
• 1:10:33
  went to uni and you know got into different stuff
• 1:10:37
  but my dad still has that folder of CDs in his
• 1:10:41
  car it's moved between cars and he'll often like
• 1:10:45
  listen to like Little Manta or Bromance Jacket
• 1:10:49
  right and then I'll say what's this shite and
• 1:10:52
  my dad will say you should bloody love this Yeah,
• 1:10:58
  he's nostalgic for it, but he's also, I think,
• 1:11:01
  trying to wind me up. And I'm walking right into
• 1:11:04
  his trap on the podcast. I'm watching Dad. I
• 1:11:11
  bet you liked Delphic. I did. I saw that Delphic
• 1:11:14
  have just reformed. What? My friend Jane is married
• 1:11:17
  to one of Delphic. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
• 1:11:20
  And they've done this thing. It's quite interesting,
• 1:11:21
  actually. They had a really bad fallout when
• 1:11:24
  they finished, and now they're back together.
• 1:11:27
  And I think it's James and Delphic is posting
• 1:11:29
  a lot of their band diaries from the time. documenting
• 1:11:35
  them, forming out everything, forming a record
• 1:11:37
  they were going and I've actually really enjoyed
• 1:11:40
  reading it when they posted it on Instagram.
• 1:11:42
  I can't say my desire for a new Delphic record
• 1:11:45
  is like particularly huge. I remember their second
• 1:11:50
  album was called like Our Collections and it
• 1:11:52
  would be like one track they were working with
• 1:11:54
  like an African rhythm band and the other they'd
• 1:11:56
  be working with I'm making myself like a Thai
• 1:11:59
  guy and it was like a sort of trip around the
• 1:12:02
  world. Okay, right Yeah, and I don't think that
• 1:12:06
  went down too well, but they did have an amazing
• 1:12:08
  record called counterpoint, which was their first
• 1:12:11
  single and I remember coming up to that on the
• 1:12:16
  That trendy drug plant food cat catnip Remember
• 1:12:21
  that? I was big in 2008. I remember having the
• 1:12:25
  time of my life to that. So I will always have
• 1:12:27
  that memory. And if you are interested, you should
• 1:12:30
  check out Delphic's Instagram. Yeah, yeah, sure.
• 1:12:34
  Yeah, and it's nice to hear that they're friends
• 1:12:35
  and making music again. Yeah, I'm excited about
• 1:12:37
  that. Who's next? Who's next? I even feel like
• 1:12:40
  this should be a bonus episode. Yeah, yeah, the
• 1:12:43
  twang. The Twang, you know, Either Way by The
• 1:12:46
  Twang? Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah. Fucking brilliant
• 1:12:48
  record. I mean, I remember just kind of laughing
• 1:12:51
  at it at the time, but I do actually get that
• 1:12:53
  it's actually kind of good. Now I'm like an older
• 1:12:55
  man who like, you know, has to desperately try
• 1:12:58
  not to drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That song is
• 1:13:01
  just brilliant. Right, okay. Because it is literally
• 1:13:04
  about like, you know, just like a decent day
• 1:13:07
  when you've like had... Just enough points, but
• 1:13:11
  no more. Okay, and you know who? Had that as
• 1:13:15
  one of their one of their favorite. I do know
• 1:13:17
  Andrew Yeah, which is amazing. Actually. Yeah,
• 1:13:21
  who's next? The music yeah, they're from leads.
• 1:13:26
  Okay. Okay. I Don't remember much about them.
• 1:13:31
  Unfortunately. I read they had us once I feel
• 1:13:34
  like all their songs had a chorus which was just
• 1:13:36
  like wordless kind of like it was like You know,
• 1:13:40
  it was like, she goes... You know, that kind
• 1:13:46
  of chorus. They were a really cult Leeds band.
• 1:13:48
  And if you were from Leeds, you were almost like
• 1:13:50
  contractually obliged to light them, I recall.
• 1:13:52
  They did a good job of making themselves local
• 1:13:55
  heroes on a national level. That's always a good
• 1:13:58
  thing to me. Hadouken? I did see Hadouken. I
• 1:14:04
  saw him at like a vice party in 2007. With does
• 1:14:10
  it offend you? Yeah, okay. They're also on the
• 1:14:12
  list. Yeah, they their guitarist is No, sorry,
• 1:14:16
  their singer is the son of the guitarist from
• 1:14:20
  wire To her dookens. No, does it offend you?
• 1:14:25
  Yeah Like when does it like when does it fit
• 1:14:29
  you? Yeah, we're touring They were called Morgan.
• 1:14:33
  No, we did like festival gives with them But
• 1:14:35
  yeah, he but he was kind of not part of the band
• 1:14:37
  But then like contracted to be there from that
• 1:14:39
  because he was the only like entertaining guy
• 1:14:41
  in the band amazing But yeah Keith Flint. Yeah,
• 1:14:43
  exactly some of the rumble strips Yeah, saw them
• 1:14:47
  saw them at night and day cafe dreadful. Okay
• 1:14:50
  good athlete I remember that was a bit more,
• 1:14:54
  that's a bit more Keen World, isn't it? I remember
• 1:14:57
  Wires by Affleet, yeah. The Enemy, nah, that
• 1:15:01
  was, that's definitely quite... The Enemy were
• 1:15:03
  instantly, I was like, no. Yeah, I remember that
• 1:15:07
  the bass player made all sorts of weird faces.
• 1:15:09
  And their whole thing was like, even before I
• 1:15:11
  recently was like, you've got a fucking, what's
• 1:15:13
  your fucking problem? Yeah, yeah. Oh, you've
• 1:15:15
  got a fucking problem, have ya? Like, they were,
• 1:15:17
  the whole thing was just really daft. I sort
• 1:15:21
  of feel like there's a... like something's been
• 1:15:23
  that's been kind of lost with the you know the
• 1:15:25
  loss of like um like weekly music magazines is
• 1:15:28
  that no one does that kind of interview gambit
• 1:15:32
  where you're essentially or you're like uh like
• 1:15:34
  just starting on like the world being like and
• 1:15:39
  if anyone doesn't like my new fucking ep they
• 1:15:41
  can fuck off yeah no one does people don't do
• 1:15:44
  interviews anymore it's not they don't see it's
• 1:15:46
  worth it whereas back in those days you'd be
• 1:15:48
  like backstage at manchester academy free some
• 1:15:51
  two -year -old will come along and they'd be
• 1:15:53
  like, so what do you think of the state of the
• 1:15:55
  scene? And they'd be like, I told you he's a
• 1:15:56
  fucking cunt. And I still, you know, I would
• 1:16:00
  read and I still remember all of that stuff.
• 1:16:03
  Like, yeah. But a lot of those, yeah, I mean,
• 1:16:06
  that wasn't as prevalent even by this point,
• 1:16:09
  really. But yeah, the enemy, fair play, the enemy.
• 1:16:12
  Like, they just, they had just a problem with
• 1:16:15
  everyone as I recall. I think the singer bought
• 1:16:19
  a thumb. Good for him. And Viva Brother were
• 1:16:23
  obviously the big... Viva Brother, originally
• 1:16:25
  known as Brother, who I think were a creation
• 1:16:29
  of, I think, pardon the pun, Alan McGee of Creation,
• 1:16:32
  right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Or someone involved like
• 1:16:33
  that, and then they had to change their name
• 1:16:34
  to Viva Brother, and they, as I recall, were
• 1:16:38
  like a southern oasis. Yeah, kind of. I can't
• 1:16:43
  remember where they're from, but maybe somewhere
• 1:16:44
  on the seaside or something. I don't know. The
• 1:16:47
  best band from this era, I think, who then went
• 1:16:49
  on to do really good stuff quite rapidly, who
• 1:16:52
  were a joke at first, they came up briefly earlier,
• 1:16:54
  was The Horrors. Because I remember The Horrors
• 1:16:56
  were like, who's this daft band, they've got
• 1:16:59
  daft hair and they're silly singing about Jabba
• 1:17:03
  Ripper and daft goth Russell Brand stuff. Like
• 1:17:08
  two years later they released like the first
• 1:17:10
  of like three like really, really excellent albums.
• 1:17:13
  Yeah, completely enjoyed. I remember when they
• 1:17:15
  first came out that they, you know, one of their
• 1:17:17
  interview gambits was like, yeah, we don't really
• 1:17:19
  rehearse. Oh, yeah. And they once went on Pop
• 1:17:23
  World with like Makita Oliver, I think. OK. And
• 1:17:25
  they were just like pretending to just be like.
• 1:17:28
  Solemn Victorian street gentleman who weren't
• 1:17:30
  interested and then the reality like Harrison
• 1:17:32
  Rose is seemingly like a really normal nice Well,
• 1:17:35
  yeah, that's fun. But again, they were young,
• 1:17:37
  you know That's fun. It's fun when you're young.
• 1:17:40
  Hey, I'll finish this off with a real sign of
• 1:17:42
  the times memory of mine and snow patrol of Come
• 1:17:47
  up a few times. They were they were huge snow
• 1:17:50
  patrol the second snow patrol album I remember
• 1:17:53
  being a domished when I bought That album for
• 1:17:57
  a girl I fancy who I was fancied don't fancy,
• 1:18:01
  you know, that would be mad this long I'm still
• 1:18:02
  still thinking about Yeah, I gave her like the
• 1:18:07
  second snow patrol album and By that point she
• 1:18:10
  got an older boyfriend in the sixth form and
• 1:18:12
  he was into like from edge jacket and that he
• 1:18:15
  had a car and they were driving to Liverpool
• 1:18:16
  and her friend was like I remember thinking,
• 1:18:22
  oh fuck man, I'm behind. And at the same time,
• 1:18:25
  I also like pop music. I remember liking the
• 1:18:29
  Sugar Babes new single and liking M .I .A. and
• 1:18:31
  people were like, no it's not, it's all about
• 1:18:34
  Brom Edge Jacket. Yeah, mad to considerable,
• 1:18:37
  that's the hold it had. And even at my parents'
• 1:18:39
  local pub, I... was back from my first year of
• 1:18:44
  uni I think for Christmas and there's a jukebox
• 1:18:47
  in there and it was like one of you know digital
• 1:18:49
  jukebox and you can you know select what you
• 1:18:53
  want from thousands of songs and I always used
• 1:19:00
  to check out what was the top 10 to get the feel
• 1:19:02
  of what the village folk were listening to. I
• 1:19:05
  remember one Christmas where I was in there a
• 1:19:06
  few nights in a row the top three were Number
• 1:19:11
  three was Leona Lewis, Bleeding Love. Heavy one
• 1:19:17
  to put on the pub, isn't it? Yeah, but you know,
• 1:19:20
  it's kind of like Adele before Adele in a way.
• 1:19:24
  Number two was Snow Patrol, Chasing Cars. And
• 1:19:30
  number one was Leona Lewis' cover of Chasing
• 1:19:33
  Cars by Snow Patrol. Alright, thank you for joining
• 1:19:36
  us, ladies and gentlemen. I've been John Loveless.
• 1:19:39
  I'm Jack, goodbye. You're back in my present.