Latest / The David Rubenstein Show / Ajay Banga

Transcript

Ajay Banga · The David Rubenstein Show

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: After World War Two, the World Bank was set up
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to help with the reconstruction of Europe. Currently, the World
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Bank focuses on rehabilitating countries in the Global South. A
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: man from the Global South, a j Bannga, is now
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the head of the World Bank. I had a chance
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to sit down with him recently to talk about how
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the World Bank is operating today and how it differs
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: from his previous job CEO of MasterCard.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: So for those.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: People that might be unfamiliar with the World Bank, what
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: exactly is the World Bank?
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  Speaker 3: The World Bank, David has five units in it. The
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: first unit that was created was the International Bank of
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Reconstruction and Development IBID, and that was what was created
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: during the Bretton Woods conference if he spoke off.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: This is in the after World War Two that were
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: set up. Largely I thought.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: To reconstruct Europe and reconstruct Europe, and so there was
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: a big debate on the topic of should development be
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: added to the name or art because it is reconstruction
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: that is the primary focus. And eventually the pounding folks
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: who sat around there came to the conclusion that there
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  Speaker 3: would be a mission for this that went beyond the reconstruction,
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  Speaker 3: as it turned out that is what happened. The next
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  Speaker 3: part of the bank that got created was IDA, the
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  Speaker 3: International Development Association that caters to the poorest countries in
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  Speaker 3: the world, seventy eight of them currently. But in history,
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  Speaker 3: you know, South Korea was a recipient divider, China was
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  Speaker 3: a recipient of IDEA India. Yes, so you know Turkey.
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  Speaker 3: These are countries that have now prospered and grown. But
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  Speaker 3: both IBID and IDA construed what people call the World Bank.
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  Speaker 3: Then came IFC, which was the arm created to work
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  Speaker 3: with the private sector and to help catalyze private investment.
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  Speaker 3: Along came NIAGA, which is the insurance Guarantee Agency which
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: provides political risk insurance and other such insurances for people
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: like us in our old lives investing in countries. And
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  Speaker 3: then the fifth part of it is called Exit. There
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  Speaker 3: are plenty of acronyms in the bank. By the way,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: there's a vice personal of acronyms hiding somewhere in the bank.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: But the exit basically is a settlement of investment disputes.
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  Speaker 3: So again, in our old lives, if you had a
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  Speaker 3: dispute to the sovereign, that's where you would come to
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  Speaker 3: for arbitration and settlement. Those are the five units put together,
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  Speaker 3: we do about one hundred and twenty billion of lending
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  Speaker 3: in a year across the five IDA provides grants. One
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  Speaker 3: third of what it gives is pure grants to the
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: poorest countries. The others are all concessional or price loans.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: All right, So the World Bank Credit after World War
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  Speaker 1: Two now has many different missions. You say, you lend
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  Speaker 1: out about one hundred and twenty billion dollars a year take, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: And it's headquartered in Washington, DC, and it has a
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  Speaker 1: very unusual governance structure. I don't know who set that up,
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  Speaker 1: but what is the who came up with that idea
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  Speaker 1: of Rube Goldberg or somebody?
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  Speaker 2: How does that work?
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  Speaker 3: If you were countries contributing capital and money in the
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: case of IBID and ifc capital comes once in a while,
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  Speaker 3: bank earns money on the loans it gives to developing
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: two countries who borrow, and the repayment of those loans
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  Speaker 3: more than covers the administrative expenses of the bank. So
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  Speaker 3: it's actually not reliant on taxpayer funding for administrative expenses.
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  Speaker 3: It is reliant on taxpayer funding for IDA because the
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  Speaker 3: poorest countries, because they give away money to them every
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: third every year that needs money. The way there for
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  Speaker 3: taxpayers that are involved in this whole thing, and I
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  Speaker 3: think government's basically said that if they're going to be
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  Speaker 3: putting money into this, we'd like to have some insight
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  Speaker 3: into it. That created this structure where there are twenty
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  Speaker 3: five executive directors full time who sit here in Washington,
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  Speaker 3: DC with some staff. Each of them represents either one
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  Speaker 3: country or a group of countries, depending on how much
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: capital is coming from them.
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  Speaker 1: Now, the tradition, as I understand is there are two
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  Speaker 1: organizations set up after World War Two. One is the IMF,
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  Speaker 1: the International Monetary Fund, and one is the World Bank.
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  Speaker 2: And there's an.
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  Speaker 1: Unspoken I guess rule or tradition that the IMF.
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  Speaker 2: Had is picked more or less by Europe.
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  Speaker 1: And the head of the World Bank is more or
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  Speaker 1: less picked by the President United States and then ultimately
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  Speaker 1: approved by their board. But the World Bank and the
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  Speaker 1: IMF you have nothing to do with each other, or
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  Speaker 1: you kind of work with each other, or there's completely
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  Speaker 1: different purposes.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, the purposes are different, but when you put
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  Speaker 3: them together on the ground, if you don't work well together,
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  Speaker 3: you're not being very helpful to your client country. So
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  Speaker 3: I believe very deeply that we must be great partners
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  Speaker 3: in the ground. I mean, the challenges in the world systems,
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  Speaker 3: David are too big for people to create silos and
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  Speaker 3: try and solve them by themselves. So two plus two
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: is equal to five in this case. So what the
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  Speaker 3: IMA focuses on is macro and obviously foreign exchange and
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  Speaker 3: the flow of funds and financing in markets and credit
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  Speaker 3: default swaps of countries and things that we understand. What
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  Speaker 3: we try and do is actually developing. Vi'r truly a bank,
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  Speaker 3: so we give longer term money. Our loans are anywhere
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  Speaker 3: from twenty to fifty years in length.
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  Speaker 2: Fifty year loans. That's a long loan.
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  Speaker 3: So the IBRD after I came, I got a boat
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  Speaker 3: to through fifty year loans for things.
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  Speaker 2: Like one of those fifty year loans.
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  Speaker 4: I like thin get one of absolutely, although you'll have
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  Speaker 4: to be around to enjoy it.
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  Speaker 3: The fifty alan was designed to cater to things that
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  Speaker 3: you you know, if you think about a country trying
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: to invest in its healthcare or in its education and
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  Speaker 3: skilling systems to create the right kind of people for
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  Speaker 3: the future of the jobs they're going to create. It's
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  Speaker 3: very difficult to think of that as a payback in
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  Speaker 3: ten and twenty years.
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  Speaker 1: So many of your predecessors have said that the bureaucracy
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  Speaker 1: in the World Bank is unbelievable, and as a result
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  Speaker 1: they often reorganize the World Bank, and every new president
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: World Bank reorganizes. Are you reorganizing or you just accept
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  Speaker 1: what it is and just dealing with other things.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, my view is very simple. The institution grew
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  Speaker 3: in a certain way with these five different pieces. That
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  Speaker 3: creates its own silos, and that's fine. I don't believe
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  Speaker 3: in driving a car by looking in the rear view mirror.
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  Speaker 3: I'm focused on the front. To me in the front.
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  Speaker 3: If you're going to create jobs with those three pillars
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  Speaker 3: I spoke of, you have to work together. You have
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  Speaker 3: to have one country plan, which is coosynchronous. You have
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  Speaker 3: to have one direction, which is I'm going to do
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  Speaker 3: these jobs. You have to one ability to work on
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  Speaker 3: the ground with your client. If you're going to get
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  Speaker 3: the client, we talk about public private partnerships. If the
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: client needs a public private partnership, it needs to come
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  Speaker 3: to three parts of the bank to get their loan
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  Speaker 3: and go through three project management systems, and three due
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  Speaker 3: diligence systems and three environmental and safety scare go. I
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  Speaker 3: whan they will go crazy. If they had so many
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: people to deal with us, they wouldn't be in the
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: condition they're in. So we have to turn from You
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  Speaker 3: can call it bureaucracy, you can call it processes and
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  Speaker 3: systems built by years of experience.
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  Speaker 4: That's yesterday. I've just focused on tomorrow now.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Historically, at least in the last couple of years, the
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: World Bank has been focused a bit on climate change. Today,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the zeitgeist in Washington is not as favorable for that phrase. Perhaps,
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  Speaker 1: So how has the World Bank adapted to that change?
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  Speaker 4: Good question.
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  Speaker 3: So what I've done over the last few months, not
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: just now from the election but earlier, is to go
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  Speaker 3: to people in the Hill and now people in the
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  Speaker 3: administration and tell them what's inside that climate change. I
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  Speaker 3: understand the words can be not what you want, but
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  Speaker 3: let's talk about what's inside it. First fact, we said
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  Speaker 3: we would try and get to about forty five percent
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  Speaker 3: of our financing every year going to what qualifies in
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  Speaker 3: the world is climate financing. When I joined, by the way,
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  Speaker 3: my successor had done a terrific job and already got
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  Speaker 3: it past thirty, which was the commitment he had made.
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  Speaker 3: But he was past thirty, so I kind of said,
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  Speaker 3: I think we can get to this forty five. But
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  Speaker 3: what's inside it? Half of it is designed to go
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  Speaker 3: for what you would call resiliency or adaptation, which is
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  Speaker 3: heat resistant, varieties of seeds, drip irrigation, a school roof
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  Speaker 3: painted white, not left wrecked in so it's eight degrees
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  Speaker 3: schooler inside, you know, a road that doesn't wash away
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  Speaker 3: in a monsoon, and a school that's hurricane resistant. That's
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  Speaker 3: actually what our clients want because they're dealing with this.
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  Speaker 3: They want to invest in education, but they don't want
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  Speaker 3: the school to get washed away. They want to invest
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  Speaker 3: in roads, but they don't want the road to get
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  Speaker 3: washed away in a rain. They want to invest in agriculture,
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  Speaker 3: but obviously they don't have the same amount of water
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  Speaker 3: to use. So this is all Frankly, we should have
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  Speaker 3: this in large parts of the develop ald too. That's
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  Speaker 3: one part of it. The other half, which we're trying
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  Speaker 3: to do is what you would call mitigation. Five percent
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  Speaker 3: of that twenty two and a half percent of that
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  Speaker 3: half is what goes to energy. Every Spring and October meeting.
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  Speaker 3: I get demonstrations outside the bank with my portrait on
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  Speaker 3: an oil barrele calling me the fossil fuel guy, which
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  Speaker 3: is interesting because of that five percent, one percent goes
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  Speaker 3: to natural gas and financing for it, four percent goes
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  Speaker 3: to renewables, but the other seventeen and a half percent
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  Speaker 3: is to do what build a rail corridor in Africa
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  Speaker 3: called Lobito, So instead of transporting goods by truck, you're
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  Speaker 3: doing it by rail, which is ecologically more friendly. When
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  Speaker 3: you go the Amtrak here, you hear them telling you
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: how much you saved versus the flight you could have taken.
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  Speaker 4: Same idea. So once you explained this to folks, you.
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  Speaker 3: Get a very different understanding of what we're actually trying
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  Speaker 3: to do with climate and even an energy. We're financing
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  Speaker 3: all of the above, if you know what I mean.
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  Speaker 3: I'm the one thing we don't do is school financing,
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  Speaker 3: which we stopped years before I joined. But I have
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  Speaker 3: raised the topic with the board last year in August
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  Speaker 3: or something about re getting into nuclear because to me,
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  Speaker 3: small nuclear reactors could be transformative and safe and a
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  Speaker 3: great way to get to renewable energy. For data centers
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  Speaker 3: in Ai.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the World Bank traditionally was not in favor of
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  Speaker 1: financing nuclear and you're now changing now.
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  Speaker 3: Actually the World Bank had a specific policy of not financing.
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  Speaker 3: It's the board policies that got passed.
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  Speaker 4: I raised it.
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  Speaker 3: I didn't kind of make too much progress in the
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  Speaker 3: first meeting because people went off into their camps.
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  Speaker 4: But the good news is the board.
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  Speaker 3: Has come together and said we're willing to discuss. They
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  Speaker 3: told me then come back by June next year with
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  Speaker 3: a thoughtful policy that lays out everything from gas to nuclear,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: to geothermal, to hydro to solar and win and help
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  Speaker 3: us understand the context of energy in the context of
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  Speaker 3: the country. The idea, David, is affordable accessible energy. Just
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  Speaker 3: like I said, the poverty is a state of mind,
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  Speaker 3: not just an in a state of being. Electricity is
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  Speaker 3: a human right. We just need to understand that there's
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: six hundred million people in Africa with no elecxity. Six
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: hundred million, not brownout and blackouts, no elexity. I have
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  Speaker 3: said we will reach three hundred million of them in
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  Speaker 3: partnership with the African Development Bank by twenty thirty with affordable,
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  Speaker 3: accessible elecxity, enough for them to not just get two
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  Speaker 3: lanterns from a solar cell, but to actually get what
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  Speaker 3: you call tier three elecxity, which is productive use.
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk about how you get to be the head
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  Speaker 2: of the World Bank.
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  Speaker 1: Presidents of the United States more or less recommend to
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  Speaker 1: the Board of Governors. I guess it is of the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: World Bank. You are appointed by a president United States
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  Speaker 1: or recommended the board approve you. But what were you
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: doing before? I mean, how do you get qualified to
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: be the head of the World Bank.
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  Speaker 3: My background, as you know, well we've known each other
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  Speaker 3: some years, is that I am a private sector guy.
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  Speaker 3: I grew up in India and joined NESLE, worked there
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  Speaker 3: for a few years, ended up at PEPSI for a
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: couple of years, joined City Bank. I worked there for
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: fourteen years and ended up running all of Asia during
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: the financial crisis, and then quit and became the CEO
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: of MasterCard for the next twelve to thirteen years.
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  Speaker 2: So you're minding your own business.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: You're running MasterCard, it's doing pretty well, and all of
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: a sudden somebody says, how would you like to be
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  Speaker 1: the president of the World Bank?
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  Speaker 2: And you said no.
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  Speaker 3: It actually didn't work that way. MasterCard says that I
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: was there those twelve years. You and I have discussed this.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: I'm very lucky. I had a great run. I joined
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: when a year after the IPO and the firm was
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: about twenty billion in valuation. I left at three hundred
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: and sixty. It's not about five hundred plus. So the
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: company is doing well. It's in a great spot and
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: well run and scaled over the years. I had told
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: my board that I would give them ten years. I
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: joined at fifty and at sixty I wanted to think
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: of something else through my life. We had a great
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: succession process. I stepped away, became executive chair, and then
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: stepped down all together and joined General Atlantic as vice chair,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: and became the chair of the Fiat Families holding company XOR,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: and joined the board of Tamasek. And I had this
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: portfolio approach to my life until I got cold in
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: February of twenty twenty three, and then a few days
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: later they announced that I was the candidate.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: So now you're the head of the World Bank, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the approval process is the President recommends you, and then
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the Board of Governors has approved you.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, So essentially they were ninety days between the recommendation
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: and the election, and I spent that period traveling and
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: visiting almost ninety three country leaders and CSOs and companies,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: and then they have to get together in vote. I
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: got all the votes other than an abstention from Russia
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: at that time.
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  Speaker 1: So in the long history of the World Bank, you're
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the only person who's been the president came from a
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: developing country.
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  Speaker 4: Is that right? Yeah?
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Probably true. I haven't thought of it that way, but
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: that's probably true. Okay, I'm just going back in names.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're running MasterCard, you're probably dealing with CEOs
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and in developed markets. Now you're dealing with people in
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: not less developed markets, right, And was at a big
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: culture shock?
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  Speaker 2: No?
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  Speaker 4: No, So this is that's a great question.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: So even in master can't remember my business was growing
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: in all kinds of locations. You end up going to
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: developing and developed countries. That's kind of where the future
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: and the current are. The difference is what you go
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: in with as a perspective in whom you meet and
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: the circumstances you're dealing with. I've been there almost two years.
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  Speaker 3: I've made fifty odd trips overseas. I would say make
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: a fair number of trips, David to the big shareholders
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: in the developed world because making sure that you're aligned
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: with them is important. The developed world has had a
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: great deal of political change in the last seven or
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: eight months, and so my biggest shareholders, the governments have
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: changed over making sure that you can help to understand
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: what they're looking for and you answer what they think
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: you could be doing. It's kind of important in this job.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: You're dealing with very different challenges. But at the end
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: of the day, at the end of the day, what
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to do is to get the institution to
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: focus in the developing countries on young people and their future.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: What is the problem with young people in their futures
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that you're trying to address.
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  Speaker 3: One point two billion young people in the emerging markets
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: are coming through the pipe in terms of a demographic bulge,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: and they will be ready for a job in their
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: age profile in the coming twelve to fifteen years. Most
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: people think of this over the history of development. When
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: you get this kind of a demographic bulge, they call
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: it a demographic dividend, and that is true. If these
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: people get clean air, clean water, education, health care, and
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: they're growing up, skilling and once they're grown, they should
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: get a chance to get a job, either at a
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: small firm or a big firm, or an entrepreneur or something.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Because if that doesn't happen, these young people now are
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: without hope and without optimism.
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  Speaker 4: And without earnings.
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  Speaker 3: If our business is to eliminate power, you cannot eliminate
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: poverty just by building a school or a bridge or
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: an airport. That's important. Their inputs the output of eliminating poverty.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: The single best way to do it is earning jobs.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: You know, a friend of mine once told me that
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: poverty is both a state of mind and a state
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: of being, and a job eliminates both those aspects, gives
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: you dignity and gives you earning.
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  Speaker 4: And I'm just very convinced. I'm just very.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Convinced that this young population can be the driver of
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: growth for all our Western companies and our children and
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: our grandchildren if we get them productive employment with the
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: dignity that that brings.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: The gap between the developed market youth and the undeveloped
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: market now called maybe the Global South by some is
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: getting bigger, not smaller. And they also don't have access
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: to the internet as much as maybe people in developed
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: markets do, so how are.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: You trying to bridge this gap?
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Great question.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: So I mean, look, you know, opportunities are not everywhere,
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: but talent is. The problem is the past has been
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: that you kind of move. That's why talent moves to
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: find its opportunity. What we're trying to do here is
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: to change that equation a little bit. What we've looked
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: at in the theory of creating jobs in a country
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: or development is there are three things that need to happen.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: The first one is you need to have the enabling infrastructure,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: whether it's bridges, roads, airport, schools, healthcare, eleccity, digital connections
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: that you know that thing. Then you need to have
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: the right regulatory policies land labor, bankruptcy law, anti corruption,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: some concept of what elecxity will costing get paid that
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: you will get paid back, laws in the system, right
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: kind of governance. That's the second pillar. The third pillar
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: is to allow the private sector is basically creates jobs.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Government doesn't create jobs. Government is the enabler of the
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: private sector to do so. Right, from small businesses and
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: small farmers all the way to companies that we are
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: active with. You've got to get those three pillars in place.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm working on. IBID and I are my
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: two public sector arms that work on that infrastructure part.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: We have what's called the knowledge bank, which to me
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: is even more important than the money bank.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: How do you compare the satisfaction you're getting out of
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: doing this compared to MasterCard or General Atlantic or PEPSI
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: are just more satisfying or you.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: Know, there's a time and life for everything.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: When I look back from where I am today, even
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: though it's hard work and it's different from what I thought,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I am so privileged to have this opportunity. I want
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: to be able to look my grandchildren in the eye
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: and said.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I tried, you haven't any grandchildren yet? Three three, okay.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And they're not interested in the World Bank that much.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: They're interested in the World Bank because I'm there.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: They're not interested in the World Bank person That, by
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: the way, is one of the interesting issues I believe
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: that I want to start up programmers having in the
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: middle of designing is to get people from the donor countries,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: young people like our children and grandchildren who are going
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: through the time between an undergrad and a postcrad and
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: give them a chance to come work with us for
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: a couple of years country where we're doing real work.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Let them get exposure to what the Bank really is,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: let them see what life in a Zimbabwe or a
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Congo or a Vietnam and the kind of work we're
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: doing there, and let them come back with a better
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: appreciation of why the World Bank is important for them.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: At the World Bank today, as you go forward, how
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: would you measure your success?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: What is your standard?
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I want to be called the ultimate plumber.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: I fix the plumbing of the World Bank, because you
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: can keep building a new house on top of plumbing
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: that's not working, and as we all know in our
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: respective homes, that's a recipe for disaster. If you fix
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: it the right way, beautiful houses get built and stay
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: a long time. And I think the Bank is at
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: a juncture when fixing the plumbing is really important. Whether
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: it is the speed, whether it is the partnership with
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: other multilateral banks, because together one plus one is equal
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: to three, whether it is the partnership with the private sector,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: which I'm cultivating very carefully. I just believe there isn't
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: enough money in the MDB and government.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Worlds to do it.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: You need the privates to be a part of that solution,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: whether it is this pivot to jobs and what it
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: can do for cutting down illegal migration and building opportunities
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: all that. Nothing is possible without fixing the plumbing. Transparency
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: is my friend. I won't get it all right, I
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: will screw things up, but you should evaluate me by
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: how I fix things when I get to know, rather
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: than just a point of time. Jobs is what I
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: want to be seen as the transition of the bank,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: for I want to move this bank from working on
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: input to working on the output of jobs, because that's
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: the ultimate way to put a nail in the coffin
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: of poverty.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: So if you go to a cocktail party and somebody says, well,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: what do you do? You say, I'm the President of
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the World Bank. What's the immediate reaction?
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: They say, mostly they say oh wow. And then I said,
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: I don't say oh what do you know? What I do?
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: Not really? And then you kind of explain what the
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: bank does and these five things in the though.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have to have a business card, says
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: president World Bank, or they know who you are. You
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: don't need a business.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: Card, Actually I do. Would you like to have a
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: business card?
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: Wow? Wow.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, wow, okay present World Bank.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Great, it's a great business card.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: So if somebody says, what is the World Bank accomplished,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: what would that best example be?
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: If you go back over the last five or ten years,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: It'll be very simple things. One hundred million people connected
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: to elecxity, you know, more than three to four hundred
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: million people with access to improved healthcare.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: That kind of thing.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Where I'm going now is I've made a few specific commitments.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Three hundred million people in Africa connected to Eric City
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: by twenty thirty.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: I think it changes how Africa works.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: One point five billion people connected to better primary healthcare
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: by twenty thirty. That is to fight off what I
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: believe are the diseases of prosperity. You know, heart attacks, diabetes,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: blood pressure, things that are creeping up in these countries
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: and which cannot be solved without distributed rural health centers
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: with nurses and medical diagnostic reader as its own. That's
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: the second big thing they're focused on. And the third
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: thing I'm focused on is getting eighty million women in
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: the emerging markets access to equity to open businesses by
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: twenty thirty. Equity not debt, and those three things are
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: just examples. We've got others in the pipe to do
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: with this nine billion dollars to be focused on small
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: hold of farmers because I believe that if you don't
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: make small hold of farmers an interesting job for young people,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: they will all go to the cities and a lot
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: of them will end up in urban poverty. To keep
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: them in that farm and earning well, you need to
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: create the right conducive environment, cooperatives that help them. They
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: can access markets, fertilizer, seeds, better technology.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: That kind of work is what we're trying to do.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln famously said God must love poor people because
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: he made so many of them. But you don't think
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it's inevitable. There have to be so many poor people
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: in the world, right.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I think it's very challenging to change this and bend
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: the arc. But what are you here for if you're
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: not going to try so.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: The main message you want to convey to people about
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the World Bank is that it's in good shape, You're
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: on top of it, and that it's going to get
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: better and the world will be happy for the World
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Bank doing what it's doing.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Is that right?
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: The main message I want to communicate is that there's
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of good people trying to fix this place,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: to make it even more relevant in that job's approach.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: We have to get there. We're not there, We're a
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: work in progress. But I feel very proud of what
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: we're trying to do. And it's a real privilege, David,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: it's a real privilege.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen.