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Jason Didn't Consent, Medea(and women) most affected · Honey Badger Radio

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  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to Honey Badger Radio. My
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: name is Brian. I'm here with Allison and til Deer
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: a special guest, and this is maintaining frame where we
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: will be looking more at this video that makes the
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: case against is it Lysistrata and in favor of media
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, so's that's I guess my part done, So
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  Speaker 1: go ahead and do the thing, all right.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, before I'll do the things, let's do a
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  Speaker 2: little bit of a rundown of why this is interesting
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and important to look at. It is feminist re envisioning
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  Speaker 2: of Greek mythology to course support feminist points, just like
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  Speaker 2: they re envision history. And in this case, the feminist
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  Speaker 2: in question is lauding Medea over Lysistrata. Now, Lysistrata was
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  Speaker 2: a woman who took over the political process of Athens
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  Speaker 2: to try to stop a war, which you know, I
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  Speaker 2: guess you could consider that feminist because it's as they
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  Speaker 2: would term, a disobedient woman showing it to the men.
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  Speaker 2: But that's not feminist enough, because let's face it, Lysistrata,
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  Speaker 2: after she stopped the war, she seeded the power back
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  Speaker 2: to the men, and she also did something positive for society,
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  Speaker 2: and that presumes that society should continue to exist rather
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  Speaker 2: than be deconstructed into a incoherent mess. So instead of
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  Speaker 2: lotting Lysistrata, who is ultimately, you know, a positive actor
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  Speaker 2: in the world, but also probably just a character in
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  Speaker 2: what amounts to a Greek Benny Hill sketch, you're going
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  Speaker 2: to be louding Medea. And why are we lotting media?
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  Speaker 2: Why are we engaging in the feminist pedestalization of Medea?
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  Speaker 2: Because Medea was an unhinged serial murderer who killed everybody
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  Speaker 2: who got in her way. I don't know what else
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  Speaker 2: to say. She is a terrible human being. Admittedly she
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  Speaker 2: was coerced by two goddesses. That's another thing we could
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  Speaker 2: talk about the goddesses. I believe it was Athena and
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  Speaker 2: Aphrodite being horrible human being or horrible human beings, horrible
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  Speaker 2: role models, whatever you want to call goddesses. Right, They
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  Speaker 2: basically forced her to fall in love with Jason of
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  Speaker 2: the Argonauts, who then needed her help in order to
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  Speaker 2: steal the Golden Fleece. Except what was no, that wasn't Jason?
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  Speaker 2: Was it? Am I missing some Am I mixing something up?
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  Speaker 2: Please tell me? But anyway she needs. Jason needed her
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  Speaker 2: help to achieve his aims, and she was in love
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  Speaker 2: with him, and she acted like the most homicidal, overly
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  Speaker 2: attached girlfriend you could possibly ever imagine. So she took
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  Speaker 2: a terrible situation. And again, Jason wasn't shot with the
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  Speaker 2: arrow of love. Apparently the trolling goddesses thought it was
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  Speaker 2: hilarious to make this one sided. And so none of
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  Speaker 2: this was necessarily consensual on his part. And of course
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  Speaker 2: we all know what happens when you reject a gift
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  Speaker 2: of a goddess, you are absolutely screwed. So he was
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  Speaker 2: forced to accept Medea's affection, forced to accept the marriage,
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  Speaker 2: forced to accept the gift of the goddess. Nobody ever
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  Speaker 2: talks about that. Only we do because we can conceive
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  Speaker 2: of the fact that men might not consent to these things.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, the feminist in question never even considers that
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  Speaker 2: in her analysis. And even though Medea was forced as well,
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  Speaker 2: she took a horrible situation, and she made it that
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  Speaker 2: much worse because you know, being in love maybe was
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  Speaker 2: outside of her ability because she was shot by arrows
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  Speaker 2: his arrow, but how she dealt with it was one
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  Speaker 2: hundred percent on her. She killed her brother to facilitate
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  Speaker 2: Jason's aims. She killed a king, an innocent king, and
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  Speaker 2: his daughter to facilitate her ambitions, and then she killed
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  Speaker 2: another king and his daughter because Jason was going to
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  Speaker 2: marry her, and then killed her her sons with Jason
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  Speaker 2: because she was just really just a really toxic human being.
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  Speaker 2: Everything that happened, Medea was dead set on making worse
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  Speaker 2: and killing people, and that's on her, and that's our
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  Speaker 2: feminist icon. So if at any point throughout this discussion
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  Speaker 2: you want to send a message explaining to me how
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  Speaker 2: I am wrong, go to feed the Badger dot com
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  Speaker 2: if you want to join us badgination, don online. Let's begin.
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  Speaker 2: I want to see how deep this goes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so now we're on uh part three modern medeia.
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  Speaker 1: So I guess she's going to tell us I don't
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  Speaker 1: know how this relates to her ideology. So let's play it.
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  Speaker 3: Free media if a montet, because because it it really
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  Speaker 3: really just screamed that that happening on real thing that happens.
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  Speaker 3: You give birth? Do you have all these harms?
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  Speaker 1: What postpartum psychosis? Don't you know what that is? Why
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  Speaker 1: it's a modern thing that modern people engage in? Are
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  Speaker 1: you not modern?
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  Speaker 2: What is? The woman did not have a child when
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  Speaker 2: she killed her brother? The woman, I don't think she
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  Speaker 2: had a child when she killed one of the kings
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  Speaker 2: that defied their ambitions and his daughter. And I'm pretty
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  Speaker 2: sure her sons weren't they like older, like they weren't
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  Speaker 2: that young. This was like twenty a couple decades. I'm
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  Speaker 2: pretty sure her kids were like in their were they
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  Speaker 2: like ten or something in their teens.
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  Speaker 4: They were supposed to be teens or something like that.
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  Speaker 4: I will say, definitely not have children when she killed
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  Speaker 4: her children. That was the point.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, what's she's saying? This is postpartum psychosis. The kids
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  Speaker 2: are teenagers. Like, at that point you got to give
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  Speaker 2: it up, Like does she not even think about the
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  Speaker 2: things that come out of her mouth? Or is are
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  Speaker 2: we just at the stage of just pure abstract pattern
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  Speaker 2: matching things that don't even have any connections. It's like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: this is a mother. Obviously, when she kills her teenage sons,
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  Speaker 2: it's postpartum psychosis. How long does postpartum psychosis last? Are we?
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  Speaker 2: Is this just a license? Yeah? I killed my son
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  Speaker 2: he was fifty four. Postpartum psychosis. Like what it's like
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  Speaker 2: a compermanent get out of jail free card for mothers apparently? Okay, again,
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  Speaker 2: is there any gait? Like, is there any frontal lobe
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  Speaker 2: involvement in the things that come out of her mouth?
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  Speaker 1: She's got she's got a massive fan base, so I'm
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  Speaker 1: guessing that means she's smart.
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  Speaker 2: All right, So direct from her olympic exortic system to
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  Speaker 2: their olympic assorted system a sort of sort of system. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: there's vague associations. Well, this is a mother. Mothers have
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  Speaker 2: postpartum uh psychosis. Therefore, her killing her her teenage boys
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  Speaker 2: is a result of postpodun post modern psychos postpartum postmodern
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  Speaker 2: psychosis actually is Yeah, that's more accurate.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so we keep going.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, percentage of people that startart to develop of hurting
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  Speaker 3: their children and like they don't want to, but for
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  Speaker 3: some reason they feel like they have to. And it's
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  Speaker 3: the same way Medea was describing it, is like she
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  Speaker 3: loves her children, she would never do anything to harm them,
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  Speaker 3: but she she has to murder them. And it felt
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  Speaker 3: like they just wait, what.
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  Speaker 1: Any do you want to say anything? Anybody? I should?
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  Speaker 1: I keep going.
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  Speaker 4: You don't understand. I just have to kill children, and
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  Speaker 4: we just I just have to justify killing children because
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  Speaker 4: I just do Okay.
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  Speaker 1: It's also the last thing I want to do, but
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  Speaker 1: I gotta do it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would definitely never do it, but I'm going
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  Speaker 4: to do it. Also, just this postpartum psychosis thing, this
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  Speaker 4: is if we've already discovered why it's nonsense anyway, You're
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  Speaker 4: not going to be developing it when your children are
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  Speaker 4: in the double digit numbers. You're not going to be
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  Speaker 4: developing it when your children are being measured in years.
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  Speaker 4: By the entire point of postpartum psychosis, that it tends
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  Speaker 4: to happen within like the first year, if it's going
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  Speaker 4: to manifest at all, and the actual manifestation rate of
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  Speaker 4: it is something ridiculous like er point one percent. Anyway,
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  Speaker 4: like this is just reach that this is reaching on
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  Speaker 4: her part. It's do I want to just label it
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  Speaker 4: as cope. I can label it as cope, I suppose,
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  Speaker 4: But I think this is just you're desperately reaching because
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  Speaker 4: you want to try to say something profound or meaningful
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  Speaker 4: based on some sort of victimization of women, on you know,
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  Speaker 4: something bad that happens to women. And I'm going to
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  Speaker 4: bring us back, of course, to the theological origins of
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  Speaker 4: women and the women's movement, because I always have to.
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  Speaker 4: You know, we've talked about this to death. But I'm
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  Speaker 4: going to remind this woman that the feminist position on
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  Speaker 4: this topic is men made women hysterical by labeling hysteria.
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  Speaker 4: They created the word, and then they became it. So
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  Speaker 4: why don't you just not defining yourself as having these things?
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  Speaker 4: Why didn't Medea just say I'll postpartum psychosis doesn't exist.
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  Speaker 4: There's no word for it, so I can't be it,
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  Speaker 4: because that's how your movement functions. Apparently definitely being a
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  Speaker 4: bit silly towards the enbber, But I like to bring
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  Speaker 4: it up every so often because I do just like
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  Speaker 4: to remind people we are dealing with a movement here
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  Speaker 4: that does say things don't exist until you have a
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  Speaker 4: word for them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that actually is entirely consistent with relational web signaling,
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  Speaker 2: relational cognitive modality. Things don't exist, only symbols of things,
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  Speaker 2: if you can believe it.
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  Speaker 4: Speaking of which, for symbols, yeah, I suppose this is
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  Speaker 4: there is a segue here in my brain. It's maybe
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  Speaker 4: a little weird. I decided to try and look up
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  Speaker 4: in my pile of feminist homes about like myth and
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  Speaker 4: do they have anything to do with myths and the
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  Speaker 4: ancients and everything like that. One book had one page
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  Speaker 4: about myths and it was aunt Jemima. That's it. That's
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  Speaker 4: all they cared about. They were talking about myths, and
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  Speaker 4: we went with We went with aunt Jemima that that
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  Speaker 4: was the only one the feminist movement cared about in
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  Speaker 4: the half dozen textbooks that I have on the topic
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  Speaker 4: of myth.
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  Speaker 2: H All right, so I got a little bit of
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  Speaker 2: information on postpartum psychosis. A postpartum psychosis occurs in the
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  Speaker 2: weeks two months after birth. The standard window is the
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  Speaker 2: first six weeks, with rare at cases extending to about
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  Speaker 2: a year. The mechanism is the hormonal cascade following delivery.
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  Speaker 2: Estrogen and progesterone drops sharply, prolactin rises. Sleep is disrupted,
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  Speaker 2: and in vulnerable women this produces psychotic symptoms, delusions, hallucinations,
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  Speaker 2: severe disorganization. The acute the condition is acute and time limited.
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  Speaker 2: It does not persist for years and does not produce
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  Speaker 2: a delayed onset. Child killing of older children. A mother
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  Speaker 2: killing her teenage sons is not postmartem psychosis case. The
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  Speaker 2: diagnostic category does not extend that far Medea's sons in
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  Speaker 2: euripides are old enough to walk to a wedding bearing gifts,
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  Speaker 2: hand the dress and crown to the bride, and return
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  Speaker 2: home alone. They are children, not infants. Estimates very and
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  Speaker 2: somewhere from young children to early adolescents, depending on the production.
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  Speaker 2: They are not newborns while they're killing them is not
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  Speaker 2: within the months within months of having given birth. The
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  Speaker 2: postpartum psychosis frame applied to this case is medically wrong,
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  Speaker 2: all right, So why does she reach for it? This
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  Speaker 2: is getting into a bit of analysis. Now it supplies
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  Speaker 2: the exoneration template she needs. Postpartum psychosis is the modern category.
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  Speaker 2: Why don't we just call that hysteria. Hysteria is the
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  Speaker 2: modern category where the public has been trained to accept
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  Speaker 2: she didn't want to, but she had to. The standard
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  Speaker 2: frame is she loved your children. She would never have
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  Speaker 2: done this in her right mind. The hormones made her
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  Speaker 2: do it. The frame removes agency from the woman and
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  Speaker 2: locates the cause of biology. She didn't choose the creator,
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  Speaker 2: the video creator wants exactly this exoneration for media. The
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  Speaker 2: fit doesn't have to be medically accurate. The frame just
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  Speaker 2: has to be reachable. So he's just this just this
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  Speaker 2: is a sorting. She's just she's just making an assortative
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  Speaker 2: like this sort of looks like this. Media is a mother.
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  Speaker 2: Mothers get postpartum psychosis. Therefore, Medea had postpartum psychosis when
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  Speaker 2: she killed her kids. Right, All of the pragmatic, like
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  Speaker 2: operative content of this diagnosis, like the correct behavior, the
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  Speaker 2: correct timing, the correct hormonal cascade, the correct vulnerabilities that
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  Speaker 2: Medeish probably would have had beforehand, are irrelevant because we're
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  Speaker 2: not talking about something that exists in reality, we're just
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  Speaker 2: talking about pairing things to other things, symbols to other symbols,
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  Speaker 2: and then that's the logic train. I don't know, can
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  Speaker 2: we call it a logical train. It's it's like a
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  Speaker 2: mind that can only think through association with things, right,
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  Speaker 2: and doesn't understand that these associations don't work because the
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  Speaker 2: operations underlying them, that there's no causal chain there, see
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  Speaker 2: what I'm saying, So that she's just like, yeah, this,
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  Speaker 2: this symbol is related to this symbol, which is related
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  Speaker 2: to this symbol QED, without realizing that these there are
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  Speaker 2: actual underlying causal chains that have to work in order
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  Speaker 2: to assert these these equivalencies. She doesn't understand that that
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  Speaker 2: is incomprehensible to these women like that. This is this
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  Speaker 2: is something I need to nail home for people. They
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  Speaker 2: do not understand causality as we know it. They only
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  Speaker 2: understand associating one symbol with another symbol with another symbol QED.
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  Speaker 2: That's it. That's why you can have an entire feminist
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  Speaker 2: apparatus that says men or women are unequal to men,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: and you ask, well, did you ever measure men's side?
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  Speaker 2: And they're like what what what measurement's side. Well, you're
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  Speaker 2: you're asserting an equivalence. That's a logical statement, right, and
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  Speaker 2: there's a certain causal chain that you need to engage
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  Speaker 2: in order to assert it. You've got to measure both
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  Speaker 2: sides before you can assert any any form of equivalence
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  Speaker 2: between them. So, but that's an action, guys, that's a
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  Speaker 2: causal chain, and they don't understand that. All they understand
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  Speaker 2: is man bad, give me stuff. Oh all right. You know,
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  Speaker 2: before I started this, I think I've I've really lost
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  Speaker 2: a lot of my faith in modern women.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just I'm having a coffee moment. All right,
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  Speaker 2: let's keep going.
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  Speaker 4: All right, I'm just if I might get in a
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  Speaker 4: little bit with actual postpartum murder rates and whatnot, just
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  Speaker 4: because you know, why not, let's just go down this
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  Speaker 4: entire rabbit hole, shall we. The rates of it are
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  Speaker 4: very rare, Like I said, it's about zero point one
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  Speaker 4: percent something like that. I just decided to see what
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: the actual rates of it were Usay, there's about five
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  Speaker 4: hundred cases of philocide arrested every year. So again I
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  Speaker 4: think that gives you an idea of how rare it is.
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  Speaker 4: It's mostly done by mothers. Apparently when men kill children,
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  Speaker 4: they tend to wait till the children are older. Very
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: interestingly about the well, some of them are kind of
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  Speaker 4: obvious about the things that are predictive factors of it,
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  Speaker 4: the mother being young nineteen years or lower, and being single,
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  Speaker 4: which I doesn't really surprise based on things that we've
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: discussed here on this channel, we know that single parents
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  Speaker 4: are just objectively worse than parents when it comes to
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: being together. Yes, single mothers, because yeah, of course, and
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  Speaker 4: we have so many more of those than single fathers.
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  Speaker 4: And there's also the ever increasing evidence implication I suppose
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  Speaker 4: that it is being used as a cover for just
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  Speaker 4: outright murder, you know, ultra late term abortions, fourth trimester
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: and beyond abortions, because you're seeing these rates sneak up,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: which of course ties in with the fact that single
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  Speaker 4: motherhood is becoming the norm in Western societies, and there
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  Speaker 4: is sort of this this increasing you know, are you
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  Speaker 4: actually being psychotic with this? Are you actually having the
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  Speaker 4: necessary hormone crash that results in less mentally stable behavior
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: because you're thrown into this. It's just really bizarre and
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: difficult to process mental place as a result of having
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  Speaker 4: a hormone profile that your body has literally never experienced before.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Yep. And I mean it's to bring in some more analysis.
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  Speaker 2: The video creator is not running the analysis with attention
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  Speaker 2: where to whether the medical category fits. She's running the
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: analysis with the attention to whether she can reach an
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: exoneration frame that lets the reading work. So essentially, we
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: start with the conclusion we want and we work backwards.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Feminist science everyone this is something that's repeated over and
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: over and over in their thinking, So it doesn't matter
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: the actual biological specifics that or the legal situation, or
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  Speaker 2: the fact that this is increasing for no apparent reason,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: these exonerations and the scope creep is real like till
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: they was talking about and this is why, this is
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: why the scope creep is real. They all want to
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: land on the woman is innocent, and that's what feminist
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: jurisprudence is essentially creating. And we have the receipts for that,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: because wherever feminists go, they lessen the legal expectations on women,
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  Speaker 2: the idea that they should be held to the same
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  Speaker 2: legal standards as men, the idea that they should even
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: be imprisoned. There's this feminist initiatives in like the UK,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: maybe in the US as well, to remove female prisons,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: and they and they actually succeeded to remove juvenile detention
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: facilities for girls in the UK, and eventually they'll probably
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: they'll probably succeed at removing prisons entire for women. So
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  Speaker 2: this is this is that that whole idea that you
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  Speaker 2: start with your conclusion and your work backwards and everything
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  Speaker 2: is in service to the conclusion. This is going to
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  Speaker 2: reverse the progress of science. But that doesn't matter because
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  Speaker 2: you know, media is innocent. Guys. It was postpartums postpartum
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  Speaker 2: psychosis that usually resolves within a year, that caused her
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  Speaker 2: to kill her possibly teenage sons. All Right, the fit
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  Speaker 2: doesn't need to be checked because the function of the
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  Speaker 2: frame serves doesn't depend on its accuracy. A postpartum psychosis
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  Speaker 2: is the frame she reaches for because it's the most
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  Speaker 2: familiar exoneration script and the culture fir mother kills child.
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  Speaker 2: The modality process is the move as supply medical victim framing.
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  Speaker 2: For Medea, the specific medical category that does the work
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  Speaker 2: is interchangeable. Postpartum psychosis, postpartum depression. She just snapped. The
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: patriarchy drove her to it. Any frame that removes this
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: agency works equally well. At this level of the operation.
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  Speaker 2: The video creator picked the one that has the most
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: cultural traction for the audience she's speaking to. The result
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: is medically incoherent, but rhetorically functional. A teenage isn't really
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: rhetorically functional. I mean, how many people get oh what
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: am I talking about? Look at her freakin' fan base?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: How many people get taken it by this sophistray? Many apparently,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: especially if they're female. It's rhetorically functional. A teenage child
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: children case is not postpartum. No clinician would code it
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: this way. Diagnostic window has been closed for years by
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the time a Day acts. None of that matters to
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: the analysis, because the analysis is not engaging with the
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: medical category. That would be engaging with the operative reality
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: of sickness, which she cannot do. It is using the
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: cultural traction the medical category has accumulated to exonerate a
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: fictional character whose acts the modality can't accept as the
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: acts of an agent with full responsibility. Even though we
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: can attribute full responsibility to Jason, and despite he didn't
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: consent to any of this and has undersignificant pressure, don't
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: reject the gifts of a goddess to accept this entire
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: situation and then his kitids are dead. Wow, this is
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: patriarch you guys. The misdiagnosis is the tell when the
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: wrong categories reach for. What's being supplied is not the category,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: but the exoneration the category provides. The video creator needs
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: the exoneration, she picks the nearest available frame that delivers it.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: The fact that the frame is wrong does not register
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: because the operation she is running or the relational web
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: that she is running, does not require the frame to
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: be right. It requires the frame to function. So there
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: you go. This is the result of associative thinking, starting
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: with the conclusion and building the argument from what you
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: want to conclude. I don't even know if you call
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: it an argument, the association for what you want want
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: to conclude. It's just this looks like this. So the
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: smashing together argument done.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: And if you'd like to know how wonderfully successful this
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: women didn't do nothing no matter what is I'm sure
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: you can guess what the rates of conviction are when
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: it comes to feel Aside. Despite the massive disproportionate number
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: of women who are the ones committing it, eight of
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: the people convicted for it are men, even though women
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: do it a lot more. When you actually get.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: To it doesn't count as a crime when women do it.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like if you're if you're going to the point
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: of conviction and prison, it's mostly men, even though because
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: women just say postpartum depression and then there's no arrest, there's.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Tears are more powerful than in the amount of evidence
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: could ever show.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, in women's thing.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: From that, the symptoms has been very prophetic in a
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: lot of ways. Some of them they did not intend.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: In Canada, women aren't charged with murder. They are charged
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: within fanticide, which has a maximum penalty significantly lower than murder.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable. This is the one thing of all the things.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Because I started out a feminist right, this was the
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: thing that pissed me off the most and made me
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: disassociate with feminism, the fact that they did not want
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: to hold women accountable to their responsibilities as citizens and
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: their responsibilities as being for being law abiding citizens at all.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I just got sick of it. And the funny thing
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: is is what I noticed is that feminists would promote
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: this idea that oh, yeah, women are you know, the
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: patriarchy done? Did it? And they shouldn't be subjected to
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: rule of law. Women should be above rule of law.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: They're not. They're not like men. Rule of law for men,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: not the precious people. And then they would turn around
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: and when people would accuse them of creating a two
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: tiered legal system with women on top untouched by it,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: they would point to women like me and say, well,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: she's a feminist. She believes that, you know, legal equality. Meanwhile,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: in every other possible situation, they would kick me out
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: and excommunicate me. And I'm like, you know what, I'm
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: not providing covery for you anymore. I'm going to the
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: other side, if you can consider it another side. I'm
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: going to the side of rule of law. Thank you, goodbye.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: This is one of the This is yeah, this is
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: actually the thing that ended up being the straw on
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the camel's back for me is the constant disavowal of
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: women being held to the standards of being lawbided in
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: citizens by feminists. Okay, hey, let's uh, do you want
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to do a bit more of the.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Of the let's yeah, let's keep going.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we talked about murdering babies for like fifteen to
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: twenty minutes let's let completely normal conversation to have.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Well, wall I diy, Come on, let's give us a break.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I mean we're not we're not exonerating, you know, murdering babies.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: We're discussing someone who is.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: I just as you come into a live street, do you think, yeah,
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: we're going to talk about some ancient Greek myths or something.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: Here's dead babies. Twenty minutes of dead babies.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't talk about it if they didn't keep doing it.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's weird how frequently this conversation needs to come
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: up when feminists are involved. Isn't it almost liked this
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: revery particular interest?
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right. Anyway, I get a super rumble
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: rant actually and a super child, so I want to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: read those and then we'll keep going. So Nova Fan
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: twenty one gave us a dollar and said, I'm reminded
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: of that Twitter video of a woman being hysterical wanting
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: to take either her boyfriends or her baby's life, with
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: tons of women defending her by making excuses for her
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: hysterical behavior. You drop the H word, you know what.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I don't remember that video, but that's only because I've
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: seen a number of videos that are like that and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to tell, and that's depressing. But
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: and then great Indoors gives us five and says breaking
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: news in the Netherlands while this stream is happening, Dutch
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: girl fifteen is arrested on suspicion of the murder of
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: both of her parents. In the news bulletin the following
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: headline quote, she viewed herself as a dog end quote.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Not quite the adolescents treatment by our media. But I
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: wouldn't expect anything more. A last, tomboys will be tomboys,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I guess. Okay, thank you for that. Let us continue.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: That's why postpartum care is so important, one of the
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: many reasons, Like it's just a thing that happens. It
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean those women are evil or bad parents. It's
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: just like a thing that has weapons, and if they
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: don't have help, if they don't have someone there, then
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: bad things can happen. So we are just like super lucky.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: The Pro Life Party is controlling the government and not
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: only forcing women to give birth, but stripping all the
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: funding for those postpartum care services.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: Ah, my dear, is why we need communism. Yes, I
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: see where this is going.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: So we used land there.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: Boy, and I'm related quickly of this rhetoric that really
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: got out of hand fast. The pro life is a
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: forcing women to give birth. It's okay, you know what,
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: go ahead, you try and keep that in just will
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: power it to stay there. Then find out who's forcing
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: you to do it wild.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, also that's not true. The Supreme Court punted the
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: the actual choice to the states and American women. I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: think most states still have more rights to abortion than
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: European women, if you want to call it rights to abortion.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: So well, most of them expanded. I remember this because
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: one again that I looked into because it was really
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: big at the time. Yeah, it got punted down from
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: the national level to the state level because it was
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: determined like, yeah, actually, this shouldn't have been done on
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: a national level. Each state should have had the rights
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: to do this, and most of them just kept it
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: the same. A bunch of the left wing ones massively
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: expanded it, and there was like a handful of the
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: southern states that said, yeah, we're gonna restrict it a
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: little bit more, but every single one of them kept
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: the You can still get them in the cases of rape.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: You can still get them for incests, you can still
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: get them for imminent threat to the mother.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: And also I'm pretty sure they restricted them to like
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: first trimester or for six weeks or something. They didn't. Actually,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not even sure they went lower than that.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so the notion that this is like, oh, you're
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: forcing women to give birth. No, this is not happening,
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: I know. They also then like to point at the
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: there was that case of that woman who was legally
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: brain dead and then was kept alive for some number
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: of like three or four weeks until the baby became
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: viable for cesarean, And of course women got so outraged
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: about this. They're like, oh my god, look, they're literally
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: using dead women to make babies for people. Despite the
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: fact that everyone at every turn said, yeah, this is
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: a really bizarre anomaly of a case that should never
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: have happened, and frankly, is such an insane anomaly that
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: no one even thought that something like this would happen.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's an anomaly. But also, why is it
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: that the child should die?
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: Well, that was the other argument that people were making.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: A bunch of people said, well, are you not happy
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: that the child survived? Because they were like, well, she
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: was in a family, she wanted the child. By all accounts,
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: the rest of the family also wanted the child. It
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: wasn't like this was some unwanted pregnant everyone everyone, According
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: to everything I read, everyone in that family was like, yes,
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: we want this child to come. We're all going to
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: be so happy. Even in that scenario, if it's okay,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: you then have the mother who is legally brain dead
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: or like comatose and brain dead. At that point, do
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: you then still want to because you can't abort that child.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: I think even in a lot of the you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: most pro abortion places, they wouldn't do it. It would
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: still it would then get punted onto whoever had what's
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: the word I'm looking for, power of attorney if such
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: a thing existed over the the now comatose person. So
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: it probably still wouldn't have happened anyway, in that case,
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: by all accounts, that family would have said, well, if
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: it's going to be two or three weeks until you
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: can says arian section, Yes, mm.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, it's that's a very strange and I don't
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: see why you would want that. That would be the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: preferable outcome. Is both dying. Okay, so anyway, but this
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: is like a side thing. The the answer is that
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: abortion laws haven't necessarily changed that much from having it
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: go from the Supreme Court to the States. And the
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: other thing that baffles me is these women say that
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: sex with men is boring and uncomfortable and wretched and
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: the worst thing that they have to engage in, and
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: yet everybody else has to make a service available to
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: deal with the inevitable or or the the reasonably foreseeable
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: outcomes of their choices to do something they don't want
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: to do in the first place. Why is this? Why
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: do we have to make this, any of this available
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: to women in order for them to be able to
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: ride the carnival ride that they say they hate in
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: the first place, Like, why don't you just not do that?
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Why do we have to bend over backwards to maintain
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: this thing that women don't even want, according to them,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: that they don't even enjoy. They don't even enjoy male sexuality.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Why do they have to maintain access to it via
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: birth control and abortion? Like free access to it non consequence,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: free access to male sexuality via these things that other
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: people have to provide for them. In an industry, and
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: apparently many of them want for free to have access
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: for something that they don't even like in the first place.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: They don't even have one single positive word for in
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: the first place, Like what are ukilidies doing? Like it
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: would be a completely different a kettle of fish if
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: women were like, yeah, we enjoy men and their sexuality.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: We want it, we desire it, we want it in
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: our lives. Give us the ability to enjoy it for free.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: But that's not even what they're saying. They're almost uniformly
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: saying that having sex with the men is a gigantic disappointment. Well,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: then stop using it as a form of entertainment the
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: cost of everybody else. I have some freaking pragmatism, and nobody,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: nobody points this out, Like why are you insisting that
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: everybody underwrites something you don't enjoy in the first place?
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Just stop doing it.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: On that topic, I just like to remind them that
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: the original feminist position on the topic when it came
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: to male sexuality. This is going back quite a number
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: of decades. Now, you can find this in I think
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: it was like the forties when this started. The the
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: position was and this is something feminists keep saying today.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: They keep making the first half of the argument, women
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: get into relationships and stay in relationships for material gain
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: because they don't get enough stuff from anywhere else magically,
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: which ties in I think it was to the last
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: show you did or the one before where women aren't
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: having babies. We just need to give them more free
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: stuff until they do the thing that seems to have
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: made them stop doing it. If we just do it more, eventually,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: it will you turn back. They like making this argument
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: where you know women they go into relationships for all
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: of this stuff. But then the second half of the
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: argument that the feminists used to make was if you
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: allow women all of this economic and social freedom to
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: be able to provide for themselves, and yes, that is
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: the old argument, provide for themselves, not have the state
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: forcefully take from men to give to women to fund
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: their lifestyles. When women are able to earn everything for themselves,
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: you're not going to see these unhappy marriages that women
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: are pseudo forced into as a means of survival. You'll
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: see an increase in platonic relationships of women who actually
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: like men, and then everyone will be happy and there
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: will be more big happy families. That was the original
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: feminist position that you could find like eighty ninety years
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: ago on this topic. And of course, as we all know,
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: that didn't happen. As it turns out, when women get
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: infinite choices and all the well forcefully transferred from men
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: and given to them, they stop wanting everything. And then
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: apparently we just have to do it more. And at
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: some point they'll realize the error of their ways, I guess,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: and suddenly just decide, Oh, actually I do want a
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: regular guy who isn't the top five percent. I don't
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: actually want to be a harem girl for Jeff Bezos
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: or whatever it is. Yeah, probably some Saudi guy who's
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: going to pay her a five figure check for five
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: minutes in the bathroom.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. A couple of things. One, why is it that
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: uh okay? So yes, feminists actually sold a lot of
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: this stuff, and they said that it would be the
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: rise of companion at marriages because women wouldn't have to
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: be mercant a mercenary, and yet they've only become more mercenary.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: And the other thing that I wanted to bring up
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: is that there's been a huge decline in single motherhood.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: So when they said we should give more money to
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: women who are single. That means that we if we
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: encourage more women to be single, we are actually going
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: to tank the birthrate even faster. So so what's been
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: happening over the last couple decades is the share of
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: children living in a two parent families has hit they
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: get hit a trough at two thousand and five A
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: it's sixty seven percent, and it has actually been recovering
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: and in twenty twenty three it was back to seventy
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: one percent. So there are more children born today in
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: two parent families proportionately than it was like two decades ago.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: So something is like this is there is a change.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: But I think part of it is that it's not
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: actually that marriages are there are more marriages, or there
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: are more children. It's that single women have stopped reproducing
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: entirely or a a to a great degree. So when
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: I say that you know there are more children being
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: born in marriages, it's only because we're now at like
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: the third generation of single women are single mothers and
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: now their daughters don't want to have children. What a shock.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, they don't even have grandfathers anymore. Right, you know,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: the first generation would have grandfathers and brothers. In the
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: second generation, what might have a great grandfather's, maybe a
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: few grandfathers. Now we're this in the generation where women
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: have absolutely no male relatives to rely upon when they're
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: single mothers for anything, and they have stopped having children
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: because there's no male influence at all. That would be
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: my estimation, right. So the more male influence involved in
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: child rearing, the more women more women have children. So
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: if you got married women, they have more children because
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: they got you know, an entire other parent to rely upon.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: And then as you reduce, as the male influence recedes
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: from the process of gestation, giving birth, raising children, women
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: have less of them. So you would think from that
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: the solution would be to bring men back into the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: family in a big way, and then you will see
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: a subsequent rise in the birth rate until you start
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: pushing marriage. But no, no, no, we're going to go
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: with give women more money to be single, and then
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: they will use that to have fewer children and that's
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: going to solve the birth rate crisis. Right. So, the
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: percentage of children in single mother hat families was projected
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: to reach twenty seven percent by two thousand and one
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: based on the nineteen ninety ninety six trajectory, which apparently
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: nobody was like, wait, what are we doing? The actual
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: two thousand and one figure was twenty three percent. The
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: break in the long term trajectory happened in the late nineties,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: and the trend has been flat to declining in uh
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: in since. In twenty twenty three, about twenty five percent
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: children were in single parent families mother only plus father
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: only combined with the mother only share continuing to shrink
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: as a fraction of single parent arrangements. So, yeah, this
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: is not functional. Guys. We need to see we we
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: don't give women money. They're not going to have children.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: They can have abortions.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're already for that. So I don't know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: you give them the enough liberation, they're just going to
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: kill their babies.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, and ship again, what is this liberation?
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Why do we call liberating women from any kind of
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: social constraint? Right? Why don't we call I mean, it
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: is in a very like blunt sense liberation, But if
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: it results in human misery and suffering, is it really liberation?
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Human beings need constraints to function sort of the way
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: we are. And if you're supposedly liberating women from their constraints,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: you're putting in them in a completely different prison, the
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: prison of their own worst impulses, and that obviously that
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: prison is creating much more misery than a set of
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: pragmatic and realistic constraints on their behavior, which men do
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: just normal. Like the men just do this. They're like,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know. They men just have to have like
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: an external standard to live up to, or they're just
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: they feel incomplete. Women sort of have to be like, no,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: you got a bit of that enforced on you for
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: whatever reason. Be great. If women were like that, they
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: were like, you know, I need to live up to
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: this ethical standard of I don't want to be part
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: of a movement that takes away my responsibility is a
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: law abiding citizen to uphold the law and not act
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: like a complete and utter murderous jack and ape towards
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: other citizens and children. Yeah. I like that. I like
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: that external standard. I wish to maintain it. No, women
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: don't stand up and say no to feminists when they
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: get rid of those external standards. And that's not like
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: that is not a woman specific external standard. That's just
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: the basic social contract between a citizen and the law
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: and a feminist can't even stand that that it's that
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: it's gender neutral, that it doesn't afford women a better position. Okay, this,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: this channel has become Allison's disin French, a disillusionment with
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: other women.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: All right, I gottage sorry if you have a stupid
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: chat by all means address that people.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: I am a couple. Yeah, I'll do these and then
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: you guys can keep going. A Nova fan twenty one
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: sent a dollar and says her fear mongering of the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Republicans or whatever taking away women's rights is why I
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: enjoy rage baiting feminists in the comments. History needs archive
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: feminist behavior so we can learn from it. And then
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: we got five dollars from Gary Thomas and he says,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I like how even Kim jong un has to beg
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: women in the in North Korea to have children. In
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: the USA, which with less control over its populace, is
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: forcing women to have babies. Well yeah he's not. Well
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: he's not. For I guess Kim jong un isn't forcing them,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: even though he's like a tyrant. But he is because
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: even he has to, I guess to some degree plea
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: beg the need and plead to women. Yeah, because what's
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: he gonna do kill them lock them up, that's not
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: gonna help. He has to get them to like want
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: to get on board. So that's that's great, although South
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Korea is doing a lot worse because they're women are
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: more liberated probably.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: And again I'm like, liberated, what does that word mean?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Liberated to indulge in your worst impulses, to not have
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: the tools to rise above them, right to make choices
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: that create long term happiness or contentment. How is that liberation?
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: It's more like collapse anyway.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Yep, Okay, so let's keep going.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: So, you know, lucky for us, the Pro Life Party
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: is directly responsible for the deaths of women and children.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Wait, what deaths of children? Okay, all right, not the
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: ones you guys are killing. Those are not children. Those
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: are those are embryos, zygotes, cancers, you know, parasites. But
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: when governments suggest that women keep their babies, not that
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: this is even being put through or force on anybody,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: suddenly it's you're murdering them. Okay.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: When women naturally, very unfortunately die as a result of
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: just a and birth, and sometimes children die very unfortunately
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: as a result of this bizarre condition which kills everyone
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: eventually called life. If this happens, then you are murdering them.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: But if you go.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: Inside someone with surgical instruments to destroy what is genetically speaking,
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: a completely unique and distinct human life form, which it
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: objectively is, if you DNA test it, it is not
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: just the mother's DNA, it is a unique signature. It
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: is uniquely human DNA. If you DNA test it, it's
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: not a giraffe. It's not an ant, it's not a
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: it's not a banana. It's a human. If you terminate
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: that thing, that's not you killing something and definitely not
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: a human. It's really weird how this happens. I cannot
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: understand the lodge behind some of these statements and just
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: these positions. It's like, okay, right, so yes, there are
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: some number of women who, because they don't get an abortion,
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: do then die as a result of gestation and or labor,
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: to which I just have to ask, it's so what
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: I mean? There comes a point in time where you
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: just have to say, look, the natural biological functions of
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: humans can go wrong and kill you. Like, why don't
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: we say that because you didn't preemptively give someone a
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: buy a heart bypass without knowing that they had a condition,
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: that they died, and therefore you murdered them. It's definitely
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: a bit of a different example because at that point
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: it's you know, something going wrong, but it's still something
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: that has happened to you as a result of your choices,
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: you know, eating badly, not exercising, et cetera. At what
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: point do we just say, yeah, this is the natural
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: function of your body. It went wrong and you died.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry. We can't keep people alive forever. They are mortal.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, uh, all right, so we keep going. I'm
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna play more. Let me just double check,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: make sure we didn't miss any super chats.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's gonna be great. In the original play, the
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: context of the play is that Medea is justly punishing Jason.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: Did you catch that? I didn't catch that when I
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: read Medea as a child. But Medea has the approval
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: of the gods, like Harah is in Jason's corner until
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: he betrays Medea. He breaks his oath to Haarrah as
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: well as Medea, and so Medea has the approval of
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: the gods. You can tell because she flies away after
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: murdering a king and his daughter and her own children
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: in the Chariot of the Gods. They approve of her
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: actions in the context of the play. Medea is right,
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: she drives off in her solar dragon chariot.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, right?
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: Is this something? Is this the Euripides just being a simp?
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: Or was this something incredibly ridiculous that the audience would
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: laugh about because of how stupid it is? Vote now
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: on your phones.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because there was at least one critic who said
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: that this was a bad choice. Right, So we don't
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: know that if the audience was at the time actually
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: accepted it or rejected it. But the other thing is
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: that it could have been, like considered an existential horror
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: that this happened to just Jason, and Medea was not
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: punished for it.
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: I do want to remind her here that there's something
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: that she notes and then things that I don't think
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: it brought up enough. This is the first act of
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: a three act play, or the first play of a
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: three act a three play set, I don't know what
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: you'd call a group of plays. You could quite easily
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: have the second play have been the trial of madea
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: where you realize that the chariot that she was in
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: was basically the gods saying, yeah, we'd like to have
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: a word with you. Here's your uber. You're in for
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: a right royal bollocking about what you've done, because although
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: these goddess has shot you with this arrow, what you
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: did was reprehensible. And that may very well have been
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: the second play in the trilogy.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: We don't know. We don't know because we don't have
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: the two other plays correct, nop.
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: I like I imagine that the third one was then
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: a very camp musical number, because that would have been funny.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jason gets to chase nymphs in the a lesioned
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: fields or something.
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: The Benny Hill music running naked nymphs running around jeez. Okay,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: but yeah, that that's a good point. We don't know
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: what the second play was about. Was it the trial
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: of Medea? Like you're reading a lot into this, and again,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: like it could have been that this was intended to
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: be existential horror, like the the This was the the Dark,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: like this was the the Greek play Rights went into
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: their nihilism phase, you know, their edgy nineties phase where
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: they were just making everything gritty and despairing for the aesthetic.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Who knows, it doesn't necessarily mean that they agreed that
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: this woman should be let off for hers and certainly
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: the Greeks didn't necessarily believe the their gods. Like. The
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: thing is that she's sort of importing a ju Judeo
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Christian concept that the god is the one who is
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: moral and says, Okay, this is an act I approve
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: of because it's moral.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: She's appealing to the to the gods' decision, the Greek
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: gods no less.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Greek gods tend to be real dicks.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they weren't. They weren't exactly the like moral pillars.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is interesting. But there you're using the New
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: New Testament Christian god, uh, and you're saying, well, he
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have done this unless he approved. And I think
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: that you're importing the wrong moral frame here. Who knows.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Maybe the Greek audience lis like left the amphitheater and
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: they're like, jeez, God, the Euripides edgy, edgy bullshit, edgy
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: nihilistic bullshit deconstructing the you know, the the classic tragedy
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: is this existential horror. Who knows, but let's let's continue
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: with this individual. All right, Yeah, that.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: Had to die. It doesn't matter in the play that
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: that was by her hand. It's still Jason's fault. And
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: she buries them in the land of Hara with Harah's goodwill.
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: So Jason's not Harrah's special little boy anymore. Broke his bond,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: madea is in the right in the.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Play, so that what we're gonna say were, no, I
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: wasn't jumping in, although I'm hearing a bit of an echo,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: so and I don't know what's going on there, but
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: if the if the audience isn't hearing that echo, don't
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: worry about it.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, We'll keep going.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of what I would be referencing, like Media
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: doesn't want to kill her children, but it is what
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: has to happen, and I that just feels very like
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: psychotic to me. So it would be interesting to rewrite
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: this play because like, obviously, if you said it, in
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: the modern world, you don't have gods or dragons or anything.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: So it would be interesting to rewrite this play as
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: like Jason is like, oh my god, you've changed since
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: you had a child, and he just abandons her, and
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: we kind of watch her fall into depression and psychosis.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: It would be a sad play, but it would be interesting.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: I'm not a writer, though, so instead I tried to
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: find some modern versions of Medea to read. First, let's
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: talk about media. A new version by Mike Bartlett from
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: twenty twelve, and I'll be honest, this one sucks, this
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: is bad. Would not recommend so in this play I could.
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: Have told you that without even reading it. A modern
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: interpretation of any old media is always garbage, any reimagining.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: There's the reason the modern audience has become a meme.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah really, I also a man wrote this, soo po
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: male remakes am I right? Whats yes, spit Douney false king?
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: All right? So let's br does all right? Should I
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: keep going or jump ahead a little bit? Or what?
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: Just Dia and Jason are living in like a rental
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: house in London, and Jason leaves Medea for the young
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: daughter of their landlord. So we're in the future. The
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: creon character is the landlord. Like there's no gods or
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: magic in here. The landlord wants Medea and her son
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: out of the house, obviously because Jason is marrying his daughter,
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: and like he feels that it's weird they're still there.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: He's like, your husband has moved on, Please get out
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: of this house. It's literally the same story as the
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: classic version. Media's neighbor takes her son to the wedding
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: with the dress. He comes back to Medea's house, where
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: Medea murders him, and the girl puts on the dress,
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: and that whole thing happens. Right, Jason watches his new
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: bride burn up with his father in law. He drives
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: back and Medea has used her father's acts, which I
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: guess is this substitute for her grandfather's chariot to like
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: get on the roof of this rental house holding her
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: son's body. In this play, there's one son, and Jason's
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: just like, what the fuck? I think this doesn't really
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: work the way it works in the classical play. In
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: the classical play, Medea just destroys Jason's life. She she
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: kills his chance of becoming a royal, She kills his son.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, Can I just say that there's a lot of
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: relish when this girl says Medea destroys Jason's life. Did
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: you hear that?
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, yeah, that there was a lot of delight
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: in that. For sure, this is personal. I think I
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, the person is political, so what
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: are you gonna do.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: A line?
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: She has ended the relationship he did have with the
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: gods and she takes off, leaving him in a community
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: where everyone knows what a piece of garbage he is.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: Right when you modernize it this way, like Medea is
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: not a witch. She doesn't have any gods backing her up.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: She doesn't even escape, Like at the end she's like,
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: ha ha, I'm flying away, and then it like it's
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: to black and she's really just like on the roof,
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: and I'm sure the police will come and they'll arrest her,
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: and everyone will look at Jason and be like, oh
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: my god, she was crazy. I'm so sorry, Like it's
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: just not the saint, it just doesn't work.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: And would probably be asking what he did to make
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: her do it, Like the police will come and arrest
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: Jason because he was very obviously an abusive our soul
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: who was causing her to do all of this. I mean,
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: Jason could have an axe wound on him and the police.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: He could. He could be talking about how he's drowning
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: in his own blood from a wound on him and
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: the police would handcuff him in this country because she
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: called him a word.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she can say she was racially attacked or something, yeah,
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: or sexually attacked more accurately.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm, okay, okay, Well I have commentary on the
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: on what.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Sorry, go ahead, all right.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: So here's some commentary. Helios is her grandfather. So the
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: whole thing that this rests on is the idea of
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: the original play was exoneration of media Medea, and here's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: an argument that that isn't the case. Helios is her grandfather.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: The chariot is family transport. Medea is the daughter of Arides,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: king of Coli, like cultis Colchis, who is the son
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: of Helios. Her access to the chariot is genealogical, not moral.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Helios giving his granddaughter a ride out of Corinth is
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: the family providing escape, not the divine order endorsing her actions.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: The same kinship would have applied if she had done
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: nothing wrong it would have applied if she had done worse.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Helios is not weighing the morality of the act when
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: he sends the chariot. He's responding to his granddaughter's request
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: for transport. So this is basically that she had access
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: to this ability to leave and she used it. There's
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: no moral absolution implied by this act. She's just using
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: a get out of jail free card that she had
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: access to. The Athens reception is not endorsement. A Gus,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: king of Athens, is offered medea sanctuary earlier in the play,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: but specifically before the killings. He swore to receive her
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: in exchange for curing his infertility. The deal was struck
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: before Medea murdered her children. A Gius is not present
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: at the killings, and the play does not show him
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: learning of them and renewing his author The Athens sanctuary
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: is a contract a Gas made with a sorceress. Whether
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: he would have made it knowing the full nature of
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: what she would do or has done is a question
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: the play doesn't answer. Later mythology, the thesis cycle has
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: at Jus eventually expelling Medea from Athens after she tries
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: to poison Theseus, which is closer to divine judgment catching
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: up with her than divine endorsement. The chorus lines the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Corinthian women who formed the chorus have been ambivalent about
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Maya Medea throughout sympathetic to her grievance against Jason, increasingly
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: horrified as the play progresses. Their closing lines are about
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the unpredictability of divine action. Zeus on Olympus is many
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: things in his treasury, and many things the gods accomplish
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: against their hopes. What we look for does not come
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: to pass. The gods find ways for what no one foresaw.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: This is not endorsement of Medea. It's the chorus marking
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: what they expected did not happen, and the gods produced
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: an outcome no one anticipated. The line is closer we
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: don't know what to make of this than she was right.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: So basically, the guy had the aribids, had the chorus
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: be like, I'm lampshading this divine intervention, guys. No divine
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: voice ratifies the killing. No god speaks during or after
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: the murders to declare them. Just Hara, the goddess to
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: whom Jason swore the oath he broke, does not appear
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: to validate Medea's response. Helio sends the chariot, but does
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: not There's no equivalent of Athena appearing at the end
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: of ur amenities to pronounce the judgment. No Apollo descending
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: to clarify the moral order, the gods, who could have
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: spoken to settle the questions, say silent. The silence is
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: part of the play structure. The moral resolution is not provided.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Jason invokes the gods against Medea, not the other way,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: and his closing speech, Jason calls on Zeus to witness
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: that she has done, invokes the furies, the divine avengers
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: of kin murder, which is what the killing of one
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: own's children is, and prophesies that Medea will be hated
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: by the gods and the whole human race. Jason explicitly
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: believes the gods will judge her. The play does not
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: refute him. It ends with him invoking divine vengeance and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Medeia departing before any vengeance arrives. The vengeance not arriving
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: on stage does not mean it does not arrive. It
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: means the play ends before the questions resolved, which segues
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: perfectly into teeld Deer's question, this was a trilogy of plays,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: what was the next one? And apparently there was another
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: play that may have picked it up and uh Medea
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: was kicked out for her behavior, So.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: The reading that Clay literally Helios saying, Hey, so you
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: muttered two of my great grandchildren. I'm the sun god.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: Guess where you're going?
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Now? Yeah, who knows the chariot?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: It's a long way.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Uh exactly, we don't know. So this assumption that it
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: was okay is not. It's not it's it's not it
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: was okay when it was written. No, there's not really
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: good evidence of it. And in particular, if there was,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: this was and there was a second play in this trilogy,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: this is not the final story. He could have been
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: setting up more. And the fact that the chorus specifically says, well,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: this was unexpected. What are the gods up to? Uh,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: suggests that's exactly what he was doing. And then to
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: say that of this this modern and you know that
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: she's not going to identify the actual reasons why this
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: modern recreation is bad. She's just saying that this wasn't
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: This wasn't exonerating of Medea enough, right, because modern consequences
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: will ensue. Well, probably not, but we could hope and Medea,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: if she kills children that aren't like infants, she may
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: end up in jail, and she certainly won't be appreciated
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: by her neighbors. She will be judged by people. And
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: this woman is saying that's not acceptable. This this she
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: should be totally exonerated for killing her children because her
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: husband has moved on. Really, so, when somebody doesn't return
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: your affections, you have the right to murder their family members.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: That's acceptable. This is the argument she's making, especially in
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: the modern adaptation, because from what I can tell the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: modern adaptation, I can only go on her understanding of it.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: What she has relayed is that he fell in love
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: with someone else, it wants to leave her, or has
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: left her. Perhaps if he's married this new woman, if
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: this is a marriage in modern times, that means he
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: has divorced Medea. So Medea is his ex wife. If
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: this is set in modern times, right, and he has
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: married a new woman, and out of revenge, Medea kills her,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: kills the father in law, I believe, and then kills
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: the children that she has with her ex husband. And
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: that's a good thing according to this little witch. I
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: don't think so. And what she's balking at is the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: fact that people will look at that in a modern
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: setting and say, wow, that's not a good thing. That
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: woman is a sociopath, is a murderous sociopath who should
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: go to jail that anybody will. We don't, you know,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: it's still it's still a question like whether or not
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: she will because of modern judas prudence corrupted by feminist influence.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: But there will be people who look at that and say, hey,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: that's not acceptable. But I want to explore the standard
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: moral standard she's presenting here. Okay, guys, if somebody doesn't
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: return your sexual feelings for them, you get to murder.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: You get to murder their new partner, you get to
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: murder their children with you, you get to murder random
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: bystanders who have almost nothing to do with it. Because
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure the father in law may not have
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: known any of this right, So being thwarted sexually is
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: a license to murder. That's a very interesting logic. This
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: little nincompoop is presenting to us all.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: Very feminist.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: Well, as long as you only apply it to women.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Once you apply it to men, like men shouldn't even
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: be allowed to express any discontent over being undesirable sexually.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: That would make them part of the menosphere, and the
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: manosphere should be a license to I don't know what
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: would she say? And okay, so we're looking at a
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: feminist assertion here about what is acceptable and nowhere are
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: we going to see this in like some UK government
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: brief about extreme the the extremes of the femosphere. This
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: despite the fact that she has literally asserted that if
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: you you are thwarted by someone sexually, you should be
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: able to kill people without anybody saying boom. Yeah, no,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: I don't suppose her fans are in the vertical chat.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: Uh no, uh no, I don't see any fans in
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: there today. There were it last week. But yeah, it
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: seems quiet.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, yeah, probably they're they're not even they know
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: what's up here, that this lazy, selfish, psychotic, morally bankrupt
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: crap goes to be dissected here, and so they're staying away. Okay,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: let's let's hear about more yet here about more of
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: this modern genius.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: It get the idea of Medea. Also in the classic version,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: Medea has like a childminder and also a slave who
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: discussed her plight, and they show a lot of compassion
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: for Medea. They're like, this isn't Jason's house anymore, Like
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: I worry about her, I worry about the child. And
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: in this play, For some reason, Mike Bartlett wrote a
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: modern version of Medea where the women are like bitches,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: like media has a friend.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: Based they were, Yeah, right, does this woman legit?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Not?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: Remember? I don't even remember which page it was. It
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: was literally like six or seven of the Penguin one
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: that she's got. I know that one because it's the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: same one I have. I don't actually have it in here.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: If I did, i'd literally just read it for you.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: I can't remember where it is, either in the backgreendsroom
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: or downstairs. I'm not going to go look for it.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: But that bit which literally just says, look at the
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: society I live in, Men have done all of this,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: and yet men suck because I can still be sad.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: Is that not the sort of thing that an entitled
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: bitch would say? My darling? Is the word bitch not
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: an apt description for someone with such an attitude When
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: you are sitting in what is the peak of civilization
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: at that time, and you declare, men haven't done enough
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: for you because you can still have bad feelings.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: But til dear Medeia is the wrong party. Therefore she
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: can't be judged morally or socially.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: Ah yes, I forgot terrible. I have such a man brain.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's wrong with you? Okay? Should we keep going?
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: Come over and like, I'm just checking on you. But
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: she's like, actually, I'm just Jason's friend. I was Jason's
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: friends first. I'm gonna go to his wedding. And it's like, why,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: why has the author in a play that had seemingly,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: to me exceptionally feminist characters for the time, and then
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: turn them into bitches like this play blames the women
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: in Medea's life for not stepping in and stopping her
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: from doing a bunch of murder, And it's very strange.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: I really dislike this. Also, Euripides does such a good
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: job showing that Jason is the asshole, Like Jason is
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: using his words in Euripidy's play to be like, I'm
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: doing this for you. I have made this choice to
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: better help our family. I'm gonna go live with this
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: hot nineteen year old while you raise your children, and
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: I love you. We're gonna be friends. It's fine. What's
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: going on?
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? Lady? Do
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: you think that a woman, if they fall out of
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: love with their husband should be content the sanctity of marriage?
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Is that what you're I don't get this. This is
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: a feminist who's saying that marriage is not something you
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: can get out of, like set aside the bigamy in
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: our society. Jason could divorce midea if he wasn't in
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: love with her and move on right. And what she's
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: saying here is that the sanctity of marriage is such
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: that you should never be able to leave it. Does
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: that hold for women too? Are? Is this what your
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: argument is? Like everything comes down to she cannot see
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: a perspective outside of the woman's. She doesn't even project
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: the logical consequences of the things she's asserting, because the
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: logical consequence here is that marriage is a sacrament that
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: lasts until you die. Is that what you're asserting here, Jason?
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: Because it's the daily reminder that feminists and trad combs
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: are the same. Jason said he was married to her.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: That means he is married to her forever. He must
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: give her money forever, even if he falls out of
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: love with her, she falls out of love with him
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: and he goes and lives somewhere else, he has to
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: continue paying child support and alimony, and he has to
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: do that forever, even if her children are adults. He
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: has to just keep paying because she has become accustomed
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: to a certain lifestyle that in this play, he said, well,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: I'll maintain it for you, even though he didn't have to.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: There was no obligation for him to do so at
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: this point in time, but he still did it anyway.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: At this point in time, you might look at such
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: a man and consider him to actually be somewhat honorable
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: for saying, look, I have these children, I'm still invested
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: in these children, I still care about you. I'm going
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: to give you everything that you need, but I have
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: to go and live with this other person. Usually for
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: political reasons, because concubines, that does happen. Sometimes it's also
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: I to address a little something about concubinous marriages. Well, well,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: concubines don't. You don't have to marry them. It just
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: means cohabiting with people. Sometimes that was done and then
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: they weren't actually sleeping with them. It was basically like,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: you're still married to this woman, have children with this woman,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: but your concubine is like this pseudo married person. They
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: can't go off with anyone else. But you can't have
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: sex with them. Yet it's just like if you're existing.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: It's basically like becoming a lady in waiting or a
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: man in waiting. People never talk about male concubines by way,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: but it's basically like becoming an in waiting for someone
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: who is already married because their relationship might dissolve or
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: something like. It's usually in some cases it's like they
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: put someone into a marriage for political reasons. The politics
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: of the two nations are still falling apart of the marriage.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: Didn't give them together. Quickly, give this guy a concubine
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: from another nation, so that if they backstab us, if
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: his first like husband or wife or whatever backstabs my child,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: who is the important married person for my kingdom, that
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: you can immediately go on to someone else. Basically like
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: that that country has backstabbed me by you know, no
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: longer engaging with my son or daughter or whatever. Now
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: my son or daughter will take their concubine then immediately
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: begin the relationship and alliance with another country or something.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: That's like the politics of how some of this works.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: So these second marriages or concubines and things. In some
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: cases there's not actually even oh yes, we're going to
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: have sex and babies. It might actually just be a
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: politically I genuinely don't know if that's the case with
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: Madhir and the other woman. I doubt that. I doubt
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: that it's actually in the play. I don't remember it
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: being in the play. There might be other stuff around
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: it that implies it, like other stuff published at the
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: same time, or something else Riippidy's wrote that might expand
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: upon it. But I I don't know just my thoughts
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: how there make of them?
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: What you will, Oh, that's that's good thoughts, like and again, yeah,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: you're right, because there's a huge political component. Presumably this
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: would have improved Medea's standing in that city to have
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: a filiate like a filial relate filia is considered like
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: a marriage relation to a man who was in concubinage
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: with the daughter of the king. And uh, And I
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: think that maybe the implication is that this aphroditic arrow
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: poisoning made her completely irrational about the.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 4: N something here. Actually this might be a left field thing,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 4: but I'm going to suggest it. What if the gods
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: were in favor of Jason and his new wife, they
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: shot madea with this arrow knowing she would go fucking
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: nuts and implode everything and that would give Jason and
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: his new wife the perfect out. But it just didn't
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 4: quite work because you know, Jason got really depressed because
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 4: it's not what he wanted, but the gods had a
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: different plan for him, and it just didn't turn out
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: how the gods thought it would, because that does happen sometimes.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: What if that was the second act to the gods
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 4: saying yeah, we wanted you to go fucking in saying
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: why did you do this thing that then killed Jason?
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: We really wanted him to go with this other nation.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: What if that was play too.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know, We can't possibly know, but the politics
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: thing can't be undercounted. And but even if we look
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: at it from a modern lens, again, what she's asserting
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: is that marriage is till death right that you don't
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: get out of it. You don't get out of your
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: marriage bows you can't actually take another partner if if
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: the one, if your partner doesn't consent to it. Does
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: that also apply to women? Is what I'm getting at, Like,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: this is a complete double standard, and she is asserting
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: it with complete sincerity, like she doesn't even see it.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: And I would also add, you know, building on my
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: point from the last discussion, Jason's consent to all of
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: this is really shaky. So we don't even know if
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: he was in love with Medea in the first place.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: He can't refuse a gift from a goddess or the
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: goddess is going to tear his life apart. In case
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: example number one, that's exactly what happened after he did
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: refuse Medea. Right, So we don't even know if there
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: was a love to honor in the first place. So
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: what they're saying is that a man should just abide
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: by the decisions of a woman he has no independent
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: violation of his own. This woman is like the video
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: creator What is her name again? Do you have that, Brian, dude?
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: I let me see.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just to find it.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: I forgot.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: I'll refer to her as the video creator creator Cora.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: A Corella is the name of the channel Corella, all right,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: she is.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: She's basically saying, a man who never had a choice
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: in who he had to marry Angela Collie, is obligated
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: to uphold the feelings of the woman he never had
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: a choice in marrying. Like he's he's obligated to those
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: feelings onto death, which doesn't make sense in a modern
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: context because he could get a divorce and remarry this
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: other woman, and in this modern play he probably did
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: all right. So she is arguing that the sanctity of
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: marriage is such that nobody should be able to get
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: out of it for any reason, because certainly being forced
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: into it at the point of a goddess's ire is coercion.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: So even his consent is unnecessary. The only person you
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: need to ask is Medea. Medea wanted the marriage, media
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: wanted Jason to stay in the marriage. His consent is
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: irrelevant to Angela, Miss miss Angela, Yeah, Collier, Miss Collier.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Men are irrelevant. Men's desires are irrelevant. They are merely
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: an inconvenience. All that matters is what a woman wants,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: what moral bankruptcy. She probably doesn't even understand what I'm
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: saying when I say you are morally bankrupt, madam.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, you know you know reading your's version that Jason
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: is like that guy, that asshole that's trying to gaslight
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: you into Like, why are you mad? It's upsetting me
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: that you're upset like that guy.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: But you didn't say that okay, let me, let me
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: just double check. This may not have been purely political,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: but it was probably very political. And again, Jason is
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: getting away from a woman he never chose, never freely chose,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: and this is irrelevant to her when she is making
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: him out to be the villain.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: The term gas lighting doesn't mean anything anymore. That's my
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: conclusion from how it keeps getting used by feminists. But
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: the point of gas lighting from the play I think
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: it was where originally turned, is this incredibly lengthy abuse
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: of someone. It's it's basically like the play version of
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 4: There Are Four Lights from Star Trek, but like infinitely longer,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: where someone is just constantly told no that that light
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: is always it's always like this. That's sort of where
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: this where that term comes from. Even if you wanted
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: to say that Jason is being an abusive arsehole by
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: saying no, I'm doing all of this for you, like
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: you being upset is making me upset? Why are you
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: so terrorist?
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: Me?
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: Darvo? Darvo? Even if you want to try and play
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: that game, it wouldn't be gaselating's that's not what that is.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: And this isn't what's happening in this play anyway. So
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: just don't make things up like this. It's silly if
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: you are going to make up like your own head
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: cannons about this, if you're gonna have your fanon version
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 4: of Madea and Jason, at least signposts it really obviously,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 4: Like when I talk about the potentials first second plays
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 4: and sequels to this, I'm sign posting really obviously that
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: this is not what is happening, and that when I'm
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: going to just change something about the context of the play,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 4: I'm going to say, like I'm gonna go out on
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: a lim here, I'm gonna propose this, I'm going to
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: wonder this. I'm not gonna say, hey, so, yeah, this
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: is definitely what was happening. That is gaslighting your audience
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: kind of sort of if you keep telling him it
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: over and over and over again, which she does seem
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: to do. We're darvoting over Darvaux.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: It is one speech given once in which she is
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: trying to frame a difficult departure in terms his wife
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: might accept without killing him.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: You do want to read it in the way there
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 4: is a guy stepping on eggshells, basically saying, oh God,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: please don't hit me, Please don't stop please just don't
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 4: murder me, don't step fire to me, don't blow me up,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: don't do whatever it is that you witches do. The
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: return very scared, because you literally have magic.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: Is real and recognizable, But it's closer to trying to
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: leave without provoking the homicide that will follow if she
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: registers as an attack, than to destabilizing her sense of
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: reality like okay. So, Jason is a man who is
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: coerced into a marriage by goddesses, whose wife has demonstrated
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: capacity for kin murder, who's being offered an exit by
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: the king of the city he lives in, and who
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: is taking the exit. The political language is partly true,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: the marriage solves real problems. The sexual component is also present.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Glaus is young and beautiful, and this is not nothing,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: But the operation underneath is both closer to an escape
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: attent underneath both. He's trying to leave a coerced marriage
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: to a dangerous woman through the only socially sanctioned mechanism
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: available to him, a higher status political match that everyone
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: has to recognize as legitimate. Medea can't kill him for
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: the marriage without making himself herself an enemy of Corinth.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: The marriage to Glous is also a safety move. So
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: if you read it from a modern lens that actually
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: recognizes this guy has the right to consent, which, honestly,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: you know, the Greeks may have intended this reading. This
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: may have been like this horrified, like good God, with
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: the absolute state of tragedy that the goddesses create with
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: their unintended blindness towards how mortals respond to their so
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: called gifts. Right, and this guy has been in this
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: situation that he's been trying to get out of with her,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: and he's finally offered some way out and he's taking it.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: That could have been a legitimate reading of the time.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: It certainly deepens the tragedy and the emotional stakes of
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: all of this, right, And you know, I guess if
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: the implication is at that this was entirely one sided
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: and Medea was fall in love, forced to fall in
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: love to the point of murderous obsession, and this wasn't
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't her intent at all. That it's just sort of
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: a very interesting conversation about how horrible the gifts of
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: the gods can be. And I could totally see that,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: I could see that as something the Greeks would would
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: write about and in that sense, the entire situation with
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: Jason being coerced, Jason trying to get out of a
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: coerse marriage, and Medea imploding or exploding in this horrific fashion,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: is just meant to be watched the by the Greek
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: audience with just this increasing horror at all of this
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: and at every single part of that, like the coercion
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: on Jason, the horror that he experiences, losing his sons,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: having the mother of his sons kill them and then
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: steal their bodies away so we can't even bury them
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: or touch them. This would have been seen as just horrifying,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: and they did understand that that that Jason situation was untenable.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: Of course she doesn't, because she doesn't understand that men
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: have minds and feelings and in existence beyond women's desires
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: for whatever they want from them.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 4: Okay, even the ancient Greeks were warning you about the
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 4: younger a wife who's yeah, okay.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 3: Let's listen to a bit in Medea by Euripides. Jason
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 3: always refers to the children as your sons. You're responsible
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: for your sons. What are you doing to your son's future?
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: Why aren't you thinking about the safety of your sons
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 3: and then when media emergency.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 4: Literally also what women say to men when they want
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: to try and call them dead beats. It's something to
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 4: think about as to why he might be phrasing it
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: that way. Maybe Jason wasn't enthralled with Madia's mothering and
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 4: wanted to remind her of something just a thought, my.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: Son's And in this play, Jason just calls calls, there's
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: one kid. He calls it my son the whole time,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 3: and it's like, did did he read the play? Like
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 3: this is written? Like Jason is correct? Like Jason is like, see,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: this is why I divorce you because you're crazy, And
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: that's just this is not the point.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: She just didn't she just say this is postpartum part
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: of psychosis. Like doesn't that literally make her crazy? What?
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: What are you defending? Okay, I'm sorry, I'll shut up.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: I no, you don't have to shut up. I'm sorry.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: Just this is infuriating that the fact that this woman
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: kills people leads to her husband saying this why her
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: ex husband saying this is why I divorced you, and
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: she's saying, what is this gaslighting by him? Like how
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: did this level of incoherence. Like I remember, like ten
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: years ago, you remember the bedroom feminists. They weren't this bad. Like,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: this woman does not have the ability to She doesn't
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: have she doesn't have frontal lobe capacity, Her cortex isn't functioning.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: She thinks she's looking at this situation where this woman
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: has killed the children that she had with her ex husband,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: her ex husband's new wife, and the father in law.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: And she's looking at this and she's saying, yeah, yeah,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: she's gone in a serial killer of family annihilation, little spree.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: But what really matters is the husband is gaslighting her
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: about saying this is why I got a divorce from you.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: That's what really matters. That the husband is vindicated in
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: divorcing her and leaving her. Well, he doesn't even need
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: that vindication in our society. He can leave her for
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: whatever reason he wants, right, he doesn't need her to
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: murder a bunch of people and then be like retroactively,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: you know this is why I left you. Because he
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: can leave her for whatever reason. The fact is that
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: you are. You are climbing over a bunch of dead
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: bodies to make the woman a victim of her husband
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: saying you killing people is why I left you. How
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: does that enter the brain of a person who is
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: capable of using a computer? How does that leave the
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: mouth of a person who can apparently read right? How
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: does that? How does this thought coalesce in a brain
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: with a cortex? Can anybody explain this to me? How
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: did this come out of a human being who presumably
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: has the ability to engage in any kind of advance
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: or any kind of logic whatsoever to the point where
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: they can actually function and function in a modern society.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: How does this come out of something with that possesses
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: language like that thing that came out of her mouth?
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: How does it come out of a human being period
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: that thought? I'm just I'm like, I'm here, I'm like,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: what is this.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: A men allowed to call women crazy if those women
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 4: actually are crazy.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: And murder people?
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 4: No, I mean this relationship did Star and I do
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: remind people? There's probably a bunch of politics to the relationship.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 4: One of the first things that you know, Jason and
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 4: Medea had with their interaction was her, you know, spatted
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 4: with blood literally, just I just murdered my brother. Now
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: put a baby in me? Like maybe that sort of
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 4: thing is why he's like you know, maybe I shouldn't
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 4: be with you on the hot crazy axis. I had
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 4: the crazy sex. Now I need to not.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Well, he didn't have a choice because you know, Harah
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: gifts for the Goddess. It was Harah, that's his patron.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: Saint uh Athena was the one who created the the boat.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: There the argos, yes, argust, I'm just yes. But the
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: real thing is he called her crazy. The real problem
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: isn't that she murdered a whole bunch of people. The
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: real problem is that her ex husband called her crazy
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: and was vindicated in leaving her. How how does this
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: make sense.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: To you?
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: How does this make sense to anyone? Are we now
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: in a world where sense is impossible to be had? Okay,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: let's hear what else comes out of this individual?
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: He missed the whole point of a play. Let me
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: read you a quote from this play. So this isn't
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: Idia talking. I divide men into three groups, wankers, dads,
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: and rapists. Wankers need a mom. Dads treat us like children,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: and rapists want to fuck us whether we like it
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 3: or not. That's why it's difficult to find a man.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 3: We have to decide to look after someone to be
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: patronized all the time, or alternatively, to be constantly screwed
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 3: around until we're too old and they move on. Jason,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 3: I'm not a rapist, Thedia. It's a metaphor, Jason.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: Is that from the Is that that from the story?
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that's from the original version
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: of the story. But to be fair, I'm not following
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: her that much. I mean, it seems like she's bouncing
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: around a little bit.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 4: That's all that I'm guessing. Was her quoting the modern
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 4: garbage remake. I would assume, I would hope.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: The one that she didn't like.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't remember that being in the classic.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: No, I don't remember that either. Okay, I'm not.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 4: I ain't no rapist, right, I don't remember that being
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 4: in the.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: Right. You want me? Okay, Alison, Shall I keep keep going? Okay,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep going. Since you're quiet. Wait, I gotta
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: I got a super child. I want to read it
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: great indoors because it's five bucks and says clearly Angela
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: Collier is simply medea alliterate. There is your explanation, and look,
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: Angela Collier here, uh not a feminist, just a modern
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: woman and that that's important because I mean, I think
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: it's obvious, but this is not. This is not she's
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: not an activist. She reads books. She's just internalized the narrative,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: which is.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to pose this to trad cons How
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: does a man wife up something that creates this kind
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: of thinking? Like, how do you how does a guy
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: look at this and be like, you know, I want
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: to put a baby in that A woman who can
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: understand that if a man divorces you, that gives you
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: the right, the justification to kill the children that you
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: had with him. How does how did how do you?
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: How do you wife up a woman like this? Right,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: the individual in this video? How do how does how
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: does a man with a normal sense, a custodial stense
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: towards children want to do anything with this woman? How
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: do you have children with this woman? I mean, I
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: know there's a guy who probably will just won't stick around,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: probably considering the situation probably the best outcome, but uh yeah, like,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: how how do you how do you look at this
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: and say this is something that you can this is
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: a reproductively viable member of the human race.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 4: Well, I think the problem there is thinking that most
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 4: men consider relationships on that level as opposed to just
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: unga bunga braining their way into them because herd er
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: tits and ass.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I have to I have to
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: push back a little bit on that because of that
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: latest dating panel. Those guys were not expressing a single
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: amount of sexual interest in the women on that panel,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: despite tits and ass and uh the fact that those
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: were like the women were obviously massive sluts. So I
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: think there are is a contingent of men who are
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: looking at women, modern women and saying this is on,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: this is unwifeable, and it's not.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 4: There is definitely a contingent of men doing that. I
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 4: would say there's definitely a growing contingent of men doing that.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 4: But I think those men are the minority, just based
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 4: on well all of the stats that we see regarding
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 4: how the sex is interact with each other, especially when
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 4: it comes to things like violence and in their relationships
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 4: and how quickly relationships fall apart. I don't think most
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 4: men are doing the vetting that they should be.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I agree, That's.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 4: What I'm getting out there. I'm not saying all men
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 4: are just ungerbuna gave manning their way into any hole
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 4: that they can. But there is a good number of
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: men who do.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: I think I'm getting well, I'm kidding at is the
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: the tragcns talk about, you know, the declining marriage stats,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: and of course with single women, they they're declining in
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: terms of having children. So obviously something is someone is
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: declining from this situation, right, And it can't just be women,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: because the single women are also lowering, they're not not
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: having children as much. And the track cons look at
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: that and they say to men, you should men up
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: and marry women. So maybe men are manning up and
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: looking at women like this and saying this is unmarriageable.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: As a man, I cannot do anything with this human being.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: I cannot produce a relationship, and I cannot produce children
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: with this human being. So maybe maybe the what I'm
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: getting at is maybe the the tragcns are sort of
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: misattributing where the problem lies. Because if they say to
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: men man up, and men man up and gain a
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: sense of control over themselves, maybe the ultimate result is, yeah,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: this woman is not suitable for any kind of relationship
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: or having children.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: With tricons have that much of a mechanism in their
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 4: worldview for that, because what I repeatedly see from them
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 4: is that their worldview is you need to man up,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 4: and if you man up, then the woman will follow you,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 4: and she you know, you just get her to do
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 4: what you want. There seems to be a concerning number
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 4: of them who actually think that that will happen, as
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 4: opposed to more likely what happens is you get women
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 4: like this who I think you have to kind of
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 4: probe to find out all of this insanity that you
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 4: get from her, because, by all accounts, if you're not
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 4: someone who is into the the slightly more rarefied esoteric
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 4: side of feminism that the panel here is, I don't
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 4: think most guys would pick up on this, even guys
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 4: who are a lot more sort of on the red
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 4: pill side of things. I think even a lot of
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 4: them would find her to be sort of put together
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 4: and interesting and they might not pick up on it.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 4: So most normal guys I think wouldn't wouldn't even it
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 4: wouldn't register to them until something insane happens, like they
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: get divorced out of nowhere.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree, It's just that again, there's so
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: much decline in the actual formation of marriage. Somebody has
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: to be declining it, like if somebody has to be
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: not doing it anymore. And usually the tragcons put it
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: in the man isn't leading properly or not manning up?
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm saying, maybe they are.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 4: It's women, man up women. It's all women. I'm gonna
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 4: blame women. I don't care. I know that there are
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 4: men who need to improve themselves as well, but I
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 4: don't care. I'm going to ignore them. It's women. I
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 4: blame women, all women, every single one of them. Allison
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 4: fixed yourself.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I hope to try. Okay, can we continue?
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: I like, how is Euripides so in tune with writing
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 3: female characters? Called a misogynist twenty five hundred years ago?
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 3: And this is what we get from the twentieth century.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 3: Don't worry. The next version I read was good, though.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 3: But I was thinking about this, and if I was
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 3: going to write a version of media where Jason like
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: we were more compassionate towards Jason, I think it would
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 3: be interesting. I think you could definitely do it. This
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 3: did not do it. This was not good. This guy just.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: Why, Okay, do you not understand that he's basically taking
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: the situation, the specific situation between Medea and Jason and
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: making it about all men, right, making it about the
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: category man instead of this specific situation. And yeah, you
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: could easily make Jason sympathetic. He's already sympathetic in the origin.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: We have to remind ourselves that he didn't consent any
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: of this. Once you do, he's actually the most sympathetic
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: character in the entire play. You just just fits, just
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: situate that in his mind, just realize that his consent
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: was something that was necessary too. And then it completely
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: reframes the entire play. But I don't even think it
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: reframes it. It correctly frames it as a horrifying tragedy
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: centered on Jason's experience. But this is this reading is
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: not accessible to her. I'm curious how she thinks she
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: would make Jason sympathetic. Shall he continue.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: Repeated the text of Medea? But like took all of
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 3: the things out of it that made it an interesting story,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: which is a negative review. But again, I think you
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 3: could do something interesting with Jason. Like Medea, even though
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: it wasn't her choice, right, like Aro's shut her with
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 3: an harrow and she was like magic into falling in love.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: But Medea gave up everything for Jason. Imagine what that
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: feels like to be Jad.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, but by everything, you mean she killed a whole
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: bunch of people. I think she was forcing other people
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: to give up more for her ambitions with Jason than
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: she was herself.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 4: She moved from one country to another one that wasn't
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 4: uncommon at the time for marriages. But yeah, she did
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 4: a lot of murdering. I'm pretty sure that, you know,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: taking other people's lives is forcing them to give up
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 4: lot more than you are when all you have to
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 4: do is move to be with a guy who's got loath,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 4: a lot of social cachet, and is doing quite well
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 4: for himself in all other regards.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: I'm finding it a fascinating move that she's starting with
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: framing Jason is more sympathetic by once again focusing on
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: how Medea is hard done by let's continue, I'm interested.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: In life for you, and now you're just saddled with them.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: It kind of like imagine Romeo and Juliet, Like imagine
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 3: the ending changes and Romeo and Juliet get married and
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 3: their families, the Montacues and the Capults are like, oh,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: you guys, I guess we're like gonna end our feud.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: I guess we're together now. Can you imagine how much
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: pressure would be on that union? Like you are some
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 3: seventeen year old boy, you have married the first hot
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 3: fourteen year olds you see, and it ends one hundred
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 3: year feud between families, and now you're trapped with her
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 3: and you're.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 4: Literally justifying why Jason might have had a concubine somewhere else. Imagine. Yeah,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 4: let's imagine if Romeo and Juli. Let's imagine if Romeo
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 4: wasn't a fucking retard who killed himself after knowing some
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 4: thought for three days. Let's pretend that that didn't happen.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 4: What if the family feud didn't end. Both sides knew
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 4: that they didn't that it wasn't going to end, and
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 4: so they said to their son and daughter, you know,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 4: we're gonna line someone else up for you in case
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 4: we get backstabbed by those comps in the family we've
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 4: been arguing with for the last hundred years. Yeah, you
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: just described Jason and his new his new side piece,
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 4: which is probably he actually wanted anyway, Why.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: Did why did she have to use Romeo and Juliet
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: when you could just look at the actual story, Like
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: she's saying, well, what if Jason's marriage to Medea ended
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: a feud? Well, what if Jason's marriage to Medea was
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: coerced by a goddess who would destroy his life if
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: he refused. What if his marriage to Medea was punctuated
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: by Medea murdering people around him and showing that she
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: fully capable of killing people, including her own kids. Right,
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: we don't have to take this story out of the
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: actual story events it's in to find a reading in
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: which Jason is the coercet party, thus the most sympathetic. Right,
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: we don't have to be like, oh, what if he
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: was Romeo? What are you doing? Lady? Okay, I wonder
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: if she arrives at anything worth arriving at by this strange,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: secuitous route.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 4: Let's pretend that Juliet just started killing people in Romeo's
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 4: family while saying, yeah, I know you're mine. Right, you're
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 4: not getting away from me?
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 4: I saw you looking at her as you were walking
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 4: past her. By the way, there goes your father. Yeah,
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 4: you're still looking at another woman. Well what's that? Oh,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 4: maybe your mother's gonna fall down those stairs over there.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 4: Imagine that Romeo and Juliet was like that. Yeah, would
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 4: Romeo be I'd been saying, huh, yeah, you know, I
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 4: don't think I want to be drinking this cup of
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 4: crazy anymore.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: That and also I never it was never my choice
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: to start, Like, I had no choice. Medea. If I
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: didn't drink the cup of crazy, that's you, I would
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: lose Harrah's blessing and make an enemy of what is she?
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: The most powerful goddess? Like, yeah, that that wasn't in
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: the cards for me. I had to drink the crazy. Okay,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: let's let's let's see where she goes with this. I'm
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: I'm fascinated.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 3: Have a complaint about your relationship even though it was
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: so brief of a courtship and you were kind of
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 3: magic into it in Jason's case, like whoa what?
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: Oh? Oh, Okay, there's almost a moment where she she
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: sees something there. You see, Romeo's choice was his own,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: regardless of how short a courtship it was. He chose it.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: Jason didn't. She almost gets it. Let's see where she
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: bounces to next thought.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 3: Story to tell, Like why does Jason want to leave? Medea,
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 3: is there a reason has he always felt this way?
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: Does he feel pressure from being the person responsible for
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: a woman abandoning her whole life? Like that could be interesting,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 3: but instead we got this, you know, like, dang, Medea,
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: sure is crazy.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is because she is. Okay, So this is it.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: This is pathetic, this is this is the entirety of
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: her efforts to look at the situation and the story
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: from Jason's point of view. She briefly touches on the
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: fact that he was coerced to begin with, and then
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: ends with, I don't even think that it is an
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: understanding of what has happened to him at all. She
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: has to pull in another story because she can't see
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: this story with any clarity, and she's like, well, what
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: if we read it, guys, What if we read this
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: story in which a man is coerced by a goddess
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: into marrying a woman who's suice homicidally crazy. What if
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: we read it like, this guy was in a situation
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: where he chose this woman, but he had a lot
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: of family pressure to stay with her. What if we
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: took the situation and made it ten times less horrible,
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: and then we could see that this guy is sympathetic.
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: I'm still looking for some coherence in this brain that
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: is being presented by this video like this the set
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: of thoughts. Did you guys get what I'm saying?
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 4: The thing that I think I've learned from this war
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 4: is that someone having a freezer full of people's heads
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 4: is not a red flag.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you put it succinctly. Jason could be sympathetic if
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: you put it in a situation like how does that?
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: But how does that work? Like? If we made this
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: less bad for Jason, then he becomes sympathetic. You know
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: the problem is that she's not actually using any critical
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: thinking about this story, right, She's not actually thinking about it.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: She briefly touches on something that would like the doorway
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: to some critical thinking about the story when she says, well,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: you know, Jason sort of magically coursed, bitch. He can't
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: say no to the crazy because then he gets goddess
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: crazy instead of demigoddess crazy. Like, there's no out for
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: this guy. And if you had any critical thinking, you
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: could walk through that door and realize that you don't
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: need to put it into some really strained analogy with
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: Romeo and Juliet. You can just use the actual events
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: that happened to this man to realize that. I hate
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: to use the word victim, but it sort of applies
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: here that Jason has his own massive problems that are tragic,
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: or you don't need to put him in another story
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: to realize he's a sympathetic character. Okay, let us do
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: you want to continue? I think I put my point
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a rumble rant here. I'm going to
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: read it out and then I'll keep going. Ty Preston
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: gives us a dollar and says, I just noticed that
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: four eyes on screen here is completely ignoring the god's
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: involvement in all this. Jesus gets treated like trash by feminists.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile Harrah gets away scott free. Yeah, it's not about
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: the gods anymore. The gods have already given their their
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: stamp of approval to Medea's actions, and that's all you need.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: So all right, let's keep going.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 4: I'm just gonna get in here and see if I
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 4: can phrase this in a way that might be understood. So,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 4: my darling, miss Collier, this is a message to you.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 4: Let's imagine that in Medea we just we have instead Jessica,
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 4: and Jessica is married to Mania, and Mania kills his brother,
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 4: marries Jessica. He continues killing like like. Jessica did not
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 4: consent to marrying Mania, she was pressured into it for
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 4: reasons of politics. Mania keeps uttering people in Jessica's family,
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 4: and then Jessica finds a new bow somewhere else and
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 4: is like, oh, actually I would rather go and marry
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 4: him because I'm not being forced into it. I actually
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 4: might enjoy it. I must now extra cute extricate myself
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 4: for a Mania and his obvious psychopathic ways. You know what, Mania,
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 4: I'm doing all of this for you. You know I'm gonna
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you all of this stuff when I
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 4: go off to live somewhere else with my new man,
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 4: who I actually want to be with. I'm gonna give
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 4: you lots of money. I'm gonna pay for pay for
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 4: you and your children. You can have this, this great life.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 4: And then Mania says, no, bitch, you're not getting away
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 4: from me. You think you can take everything away from me.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 4: He kills both of her children and her new boyfriend.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 4: And then, in your version of this, the gods to
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 4: say end and say ah Mania, you are just an
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 4: absolute giga Chad. Here's your chariot, Fly off into the
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 4: sunset and live your best life. What do you think
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 4: of Jessica, my darling, missus Collier.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously Jessica is the one who wronged and gas
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: lit Mendia. What was the name of Mendia, Menda Mania Mania. Yeah,
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: obviously Jennia.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 4: The most manly of man's who.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: Obviously Jessica is just gaslighting Mania, and she should be
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: held to the standard of manum matrimonial's sanctity. She made,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: gave her word, and by betraying her word, she incited
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: Mania to kill their children and her new boyfriend and
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: her new boyfriend's father. But that's obvious. Obviously Jessica is
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: the villain. Obviously this happened.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 4: Jessica, in her grief and depression and misery, just just
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 4: got run over by her car. It just happened. She
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 4: left the handbreak off, and that's that's how her story ends.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: Also, I want to point out that Jessica wanting to
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: bury her children and touch them one last time is
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: even more evidence that she's just a feckless bitch who
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: deserved everything that she that she received. And we can't
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: feel a moment of sympathy for Jessica having been forced
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: into marriage with Mendia who which incidentally, that forced marriage
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: is binding to death. She can't have an interest in
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: any other man. All she can ever love is, or
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: ever be with love is incidental. Is Mendia right? That's it,
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: and that obviously it was some kind of post who
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: knows what what we call it, not postpartum but post
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: fatherhood transition psychosis that caused Medea to Mandia to kill
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: his kids when they're in their teens, and so he
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: shouldn't go to jail for that. He's obviously not crazy.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: These are sane responses by a sane person to Jessica's provocations, like, yeah,
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: you're right when we say it this way, it's absolutely insane,
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: and nobody would assert it. Not even the manosphere would
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: step up and defend many in this circumstance. They might say,
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: if I think once, they said, you know, like if
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: Jessica does a TikTok about how Mania is tolerating her
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: imploding his life, that they understand the motivation, not that
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: it should not be punished, but it's a bit more understandable. Fine, yeah,
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: maybe you would get that, but you would not get
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: an extended video essay saying that justin Jessica is the villain,
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: Manda is the wronged party. Jessica is gaslighting him when
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: she's trying to get away from him and framing it
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: in terms of his benefit because she knows that if
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: things aren't framed in terms of his benefit, he's gonna
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: kill a killer or he's gonna kill someone. Right, all
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: of it reverses, and she's incapable of seeing that. And
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: I think it is because of the relational web thinking.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: These people thinking categories and they can't escape it. They
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: can't they don't understand this kind of because this is
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: this is basically equality. Right. You say, what would it
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: happen if you switched the sexes? Would you still assert
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: the same conclusions, the same beliefs, And the answer is no.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: That is an ethical construct, that is a that is
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: how you diagnose a bias. And she can't do that
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: because she can't escape from thinking about thinking in terms
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: of categories. But she even has to move the story
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: out of the category of it even being Jason, or
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: the story that it is to even be able to
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 2: understand any kind of sympathy for Jason, and even then
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: it's really weak. But okay, let's let's see where we're at.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 4: I do happifully legit. I don't know if you could
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 4: do this, but if someone could actually rewrite Medea as
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 4: the Tale of Jessica and Mandia and give it to
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 4: her in like two or three years time when she's
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 4: like completely forgotten about this and see what her opinion is,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 4: I think that would be really interesting. Like you probably
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be able to do it, but it would be
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 4: fascinating to see the difference.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: Indeed, so already difference. Yeah, we already know the difference.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 4: I know, but I want to see it from her. Funny,
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 4: Yes it would, yes, it would.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just want to just clarify something before we continue.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: We probably should, uh you do you have to get
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: going there, Brian or soon? Okay? Uh? So we'll do
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: like a couple more sections or one section maybe one
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 2: more okay, okay.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 3: From twenty fifteen. Rachel Cusk is an author. I read
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 3: outlined by her last year and it was great, and
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 3: I have two more of her books and I'm so
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 3: excited to read them. And I really liked this version
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 3: of media. So in this version. Media is a playwright
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 3: and Jason is an actor, and Media has had the
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 3: more successful career. She has supported Jason in his kind
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: of like fledgling, little acting career. The start of the play,
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 3: like before we enter, Jason gets cast and what I
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 3: assume is like a Marvel style movie, like he's got
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 3: a seven picture deal. He's gonna make a whole bunch
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 3: of money. And the reason he's cast is because the
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 3: producer's daughter, who's like the young nineteen year old, is like, Daddy, pickhim.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 3: So Jason has to lead Medea so that he can
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: have this role. And it's just like in Euribities, Jason
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 3: is like, I'm doing this for us, like I'm gonna
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 3: date this hot nineteen year old. We're gonna have a
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 3: ton of money. I will support you, and he kind
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 3: of just leaves her to take care of the children
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 3: and she has to sell the house and the kids. Again,
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 3: there are two sons in this The kids are like upset,
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 3: like why did you do this to us? Why couldn't
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 3: you be better so that dad would stay? And Media
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 3: in this play, she like really tries. She tries to
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 3: keep the kids happy and they're mad at her. She
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 3: tries to keep the house, but she can't afford it.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 3: She can't write anymore because she doesn't have time, because
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 3: she has to do all of the child rearing all
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 3: by herself, and she can't make it work. So she's
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 3: just like no, It's again this kind of righteous anger,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 3: like why are you allowed to do this? Why is
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 3: Jason allowed to leave?
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: And because you had contempt and be as you had
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: contempt for him? What was this here? A little acting career?
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: If this was honest to the actual play, Yeah, he
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: should leave because his wife was contemptuous of him. But
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: the other thing is is that this is not the
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: same story. You can use the same names, but you
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: are not telling the same story. Where is the coercion?
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: Where is the fact that Jason has no choice? How
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: about this? Medea took in a much younger, homeless actor
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: who is on the verge of starvations. She said, you're
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: gonna have to marry me or you're back out on
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: the streets. So he did. Then later on, when his
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: acting career takes off, he decides to go with a
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: different woman after they've had children. Right, he says, I
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: am going and now that I am able to support myself.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna make my own choice, okay, And Medea, thinking
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: that she owns this person, this man decides to kill
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: their children and his new girlfriend and the father in law.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: That's closer to what the actual story is, not this.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: So you like a story that isn't the story. You
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: like a remake of a story that doesn't resemble in
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: its fundamental parts the original story. That's really convenient. Okay.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: Did you guys want to add anything to that?
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 4: I have to be very slightly silly, because why not. Look,
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 4: if Jason was an actor looking to get a role,
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 4: it would not be mister Wainstein's daughter that he was
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 4: doing the favors for.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: I see what you did there. All right, let's let
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: her finish this and then we'll white wrap it up.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: It's kind of long.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 3: Winded, But the rest of my life like flailing. I
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: have to spend the rest of my life caring for
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 3: these children, dedicate myself to a family that this man abandoned.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 3: And I didn't make that choice. She says no, and
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 3: in this place, she doesn't murder her sons. She just
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 3: did what Jason tried to do. She drops her sons
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 3: off and she's like, you wanted to end this, here
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 3: are your children, I will go be of say right,
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 3: and she just leaves. She's like, take the kids, good
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 3: luck with that, and she leaves. Fascinating.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what's interesting about this is I've actually
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: heard at least one divorced man say that the way
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: that you deal with this with a situation where what
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: a woman holds your kids over your head is go
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 2: for absolutely no custody, make her take the entire burden
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: on and then when she comes back and says I
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: don't want this, because apparently they inevitably do, then you
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: go for part for at least shared custody, because now
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: she's petitioning the court from a position of weakness. Now
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: I know it's actually pretty cutthroat and strategic, but honestly,
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense. And this guy, apparently
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: that's what he got. He said to his wife, his
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: ex wife, you're taking the full I'm not going for
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 2: any custody, you take the whole thing.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 2: She tried that for a few months. It broke her,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: and then she went back and she's like, okay, well
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: we'll have shared custody at least, and he's like, bitch,
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: I'm going for full and got it, so this sounds
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: like it might have been an I'm like, I'm listening
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: to this woman say, the woman just drops the kids
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: off with the father and abandons them, and she's like
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 2: that that really showed him. Are you realizing how many
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: men would be like, yeah, that's exactly what I want.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: Just leave lady. In fact, a few of them even
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: pay the woman to do this, or at least not
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: rock the boat when they just happened to luck onto
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: full custody. Right. I don't know what world this woman
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: is in, but it's not the world of men who
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: are fighting for their children, or the world of men
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: who are told by the lawyers not to fight for
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: their children because there's no point. Yeah, the woman's got
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: a gotcha, guys. She gave full custody to the father. Gotcha, lord? Really? Okay,
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: that's uh, you know what I shouldn't say anything. Yes, ladies,
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: that's a gotcha. You all should do that. Every one
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: of you give full custody to the father. It'll it'll really,
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: it'll really, it'll really be a burn for him. Okay.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to point that out because it's just ridiculous. Anyway, Okay.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 3: It ends with Jason calling Medea from the emergency room
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 3: at a hospital and the boys have attempted to take
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 3: their own lives, and Medea is like, kind of sounds
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: like a you issue, Like she's She's just like, I
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 3: told you they're your children. Interesting, so fuck what.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: Her sons commit chicking?
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: So her sons were like, remember in the original play,
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: she killed her kids. In this one, they were driven
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: to suicide by Jason, so they they changed the story
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: apparently or whatever. And she's like, yeah, it sounds like
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: a you problem, the scorned woman the story.
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, but yeah, also vindication the story and
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: also not the story, the original story not resembling the
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 2: original story. But also you're reading in that the children
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: were driven to suicide by Jason, maybe they were driven
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: to suicide by being abandoned by their mother. And then
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: she put cherry on the top. Her kids are in
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: the hospital having attempted a suicide, and she's like, not
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 2: my problem. And this is the this this feminist is saying,
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: or this individual, this modern woman is saying, this is
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 2: the story she likes, This is the story, this is
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: the role model she wants.
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 4: I don't know Madea in this retelling is not a
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 4: murderous psychopath. She just doesn't care about her children at all.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 4: I guess this makes her so much better as a character. Apparently,
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 4: I don't understand how. And I've had you've taken someone. Okay,
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 4: she's now not a murderous cunt, but she's literally just like,
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 4: I don't even know how you could expect someone to
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 4: not care at all about the fact that their children
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 4: are trying to kill themselves and still be sympathetic.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the children don't exist as their own creatures.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: They're just a tokens in a power play. Like, and
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 2: she has no idea what that says about the character
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 2: that she's holding up as a role model, and thus
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: what it says about her and what that is you
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 2: know what that's signaling to other people, in particular any
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: man who might want a wife and children about her.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: The other thing, I just I periodically on Twitter some
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: feminists will accuse me of making men, like telling men
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 2: that feminism is bad. And you know, of course men
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: just listen to me. They don't have any critical thought
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: in the matter. And I'm like, I'm not telling anyone
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: feminism is bad stuff like this is telling everyone feminism
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: is bad. Feminism producing women who lionize, murderers, who are
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: incapable of understanding that men have a right to consent
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: to sex too, who put on pedestals, women who with
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: a toxic indifference to their children. That's what is selling
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: men on anti feminism. I'm just here saying, yeah, that's
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: probably a really legitimate interpretation of what these women are saying,
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: you know. So it's just like, guide, I see what
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: you're saying, guys, these bitches be crazy anyway, did you
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 2: guys want to add to that.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 4: Before we thing that will radicalize people against feminism the
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 4: most is feminism itself. So many arguments that we make
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 4: about feminism is not even an argument. It's literally just
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 4: showing people what feminists have said and written. Yeah, this
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 4: is why I quote from their textbooks so often. It's like, no,
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying this. This is not my position, this
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 4: is not my opinion. This is just what feminists have
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 4: written in their own books about their own movement, about
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 4: what they want to do. I'm not straw manning it.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 4: I'm not lying about it. I'm not just making stuff
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 4: exactly that is what they want that's what they believe,
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 4: and then that's why the next defense that has to
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 4: be deployed is, well, you just read it wrong. You
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 4: don't understand it. How explain? Then, explain, like I'm five,
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 4: how this woman or this man or whatever, this feminist
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 4: thing when they say things like, yeah, no, did you
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 4: know that the woman is a class, man is a class,
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 4: husband is a class, wife is a class, and patriarchy
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 4: as men exploiting women through a Marxist lens. Women are
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 4: actually the productive layer of society and men are the
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 4: expropriating capitalist class, and that all of this comes together
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 4: to oppress women and advantage men. Everything is literally just
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 4: women are slaves and men are not. Men are just
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 4: these these owner class. Explain like I'm five, how I've
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 4: got that wrong? When I'm literally just quoting from a
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 4: women's studies text telling me what feminism is. Yeah, and
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 4: author literally saying this is how patriarchy is defined.
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 2: Explain how it doesn't mean that heterosexuality is the site
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: of female oppression when feminists assert the heterosexuality is the
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: site of female oppression, That that's not what they're saying.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: They're saying something completely different, that that is not a
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: feminist thing to assert when it is foundational, Or how
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: about men use rape and beatings to uphold patriarchy against
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: their own women too, like to their wives and daughters,
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: et cetera. That yeah, that isn't actually feminism. And when
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: you actually point out point it out, it's horrifying because
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: I guess people still have a sort of common sense
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: about these things. And I'm so I get these feminists
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: who are, like I pointed out, and they're like, yeah,
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: but that's that that that that is true, And then
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: other people are like what so they want to sign
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: simultaneously say that that is not feminism, but also that
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: it's true. That is that is true about society, So
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: you can't criticize it. You they're not saying it right,
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: they're not saying it when you're criticizing it, but they
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: are totally responsible for it when it's seen is a
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: good thing to assert, It's it's fricking insane. Anyway, This
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: is what I've what I have, what I'm getting from
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: this video is that we should take as our role
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 2: models women who treat their children like tokens in a conflict,
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: like ponds on a board, and and that's that's a
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 2: good thing. And also if a man wants to leave
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 2: his relationship and the woman doesn't like that, she should
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: be free to kill their children without any condemnation. And also,
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: this woman cannot does not understand how to sympathize with men.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: She's structurally incapable of it. Either that or she just
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 2: has a block when it comes to Jason, did you
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: I heard someone shift? Do you guys want to talk?
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 4: That mean me moving?
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: Sorr? Yeah, I was muted, but I do want to see,
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: like we can do this next time. But I do
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: want to get into this chapter or this section that's
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: called oops I did a miss injury to see what
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 1: her rationalization is. And again, this is not a feminist
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: activist or or academic. This is just a woman. This
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: is important to note. This is like, I don't think
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: this is an uncommon view held by women today.
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, it explains the medieval or the medieval I was
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: about to call it the medieval shift, I mean the
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 2: millennial shift. Yeah, this is sort of medieval though that
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: millennial women don't understand that and have the right not
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 2: to consent to sex with them. But anyway, we do
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: have another super chow. I think did you read.
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: That really let me see then maybe I missed it. No,
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: I read them all. There's one from from yesterday, but
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 1: it's directed at Mike. He's not here.
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: So yeahs one that Angela Collier.
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah that some.
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 2: Analysis during that time. Okay, well, Tilder, did you have
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: anything you wanted to add to any of this?
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 4: Nope, I am good. I'm just yeah, this woman, this
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 4: sort of attitude is typical. You don't have to be
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 4: a feminist to be a feminist. Most people in society
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 4: are the small f feminists. Borrow a phrase that I've
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 4: heard Brian use a few times, but I think it's accurate.
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 4: They're small feminists. They've just been raised in the society
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 4: in which feminism is everywhere. It is. Yeah, it is
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 4: the culturalitgeist. You can't get away from it. Every single
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 4: person on this panel was at some point a feminist.
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 4: We were all raised in it. It was then just
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 4: actually finding out more about it that and having some
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 4: sort of ability to think that major realize, ha, this
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 4: is not a good idea.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's pretty much it. That's pretty much
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: the arc. All right, So if you want to send
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: a message at any point while the show is offline,
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: we'll probably address it next Friday. If you have any
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: commentary on what we have been talking about, you can
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: send that to feed the Badger dot com slash just
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 2: the tip. Let's feed the Badger dot com slash just
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: the tip. If you want to support the show, that's
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 2: feed Thebadger dot com slash support. And if you want
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: to join us in our discord for more conversation and
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: more analysis. Sometimes I post wrap ups of these streams
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: with additional analysis. You can do so at Badger nation
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: dot online. All right, those are the things, those are
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: the options, and I'll hand it back to Brian.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if you guys liked this video, please hit like, subscribe.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: If you're not already subscribed, hit the bell for notifications,
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 1: leave us a comment, let us know what you guys
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: think about what we talked about on the show today,
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: and share the video because sharing is caring. Thanks so
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: much for coming on the show, Thanks to Teal dear
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: for taking some time to come hang out with us,
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: and we'll see you guys in the next one. Have
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: a good weekend, everybody,