Latest / Auto Collabs / Covering EVs Since 1997 with Jamie Butters

Transcript

Covering EVs Since 1997 with Jamie Butters · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  All right, Cirillo is out. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. Jordan Cox, tag team, you are in. Let's do it. It's prime time.
• 0:15
  What's so perfect about him tag teaming right now is the main place where you see tag teaming happen- Oh, here we go... is in a- [laughs]... is in a ring. [laughs] What? You know, like, like WWE, WWF.
• 0:32
  Oh, my gosh. And they, they have- And if you know anything about- Ornate pants is definitely a requisite... that sport, they love ornate pants.
• 0:40
  And you, you won't know this, and the poor video people won't even know this, but right now Jordan Cox is wearing ornate gold pants. Stand up, Jordan. We don't have time for this. So the tag team is just- [laughs]...
• 0:51
  like the perfect reference for this one. But, but what if I stood up and was, like, naked right now? Is that, is that bad? You won't, you won't do that. That would totally be bad. This is a family show, Jordan. Hey.
• 0:59
  Oh, sorry. Ah, hey. [laughs] If you're just listening, he's got shiny, shimmery gold pants on, and we'll tell you the story. Oh, he's doing high kicks now. Not like Nathan- Nathaniel Greklik.
• 1:07
  [laughs] But, um, it doesn't have anything to do with today's guest.
• 1:10
  Actually, Jordan and I w- met Jamie Butters, today's guest, uh, editor of Automotive News, for the first time at a David Kane event, and, uh, I think we both were kind of blown away by just his, his kind of- For sure we were...
• 1:22
  level of insights and his kind of chill vibe. He's kind of got Bill Pullman vibes, if you ask me. Yeah, especially, like, the suit jacket he was wearing that day. Oh, so classy. So, like- Class act...
• 1:30
  that, that, uh, classy jacket with the patches. Like, oh, man, that was it. It, it was, it was on point. Oh, man, it just fit his personality perfect.
• 1:36
  It, it's funny too to have a guest that we all read on a regular basis. His work is, like, in, on our computers, auto news, day in and day out.
• 1:46
  And, uh, so we, we thought we would definitely want to get him on the podcast and ask him, you know, maybe some of the questions that they don't ask him in the regular shows, 'cause that's how we roll.
• 1:54
  Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna ask him the tough questions and see if he can handle it. [laughs] They probably won't be that tough. No. We're just not that mean. He's a class act. Uh, yeah, he's a class act.
• 2:03
  For sure he is. Well, we hope you enjoy this conversation with Jamie Butters of Automotive News. [upbeat music] Hey, Jamie, it's good to be with you again. Thank you so much for joining us here on Auto Collabs.
• 2:17
  You bet, Paul. Glad to do it. All right, so a lot of people probably recognize your name, because everyone reads Automotive News, and, uh, you know, you're kind of running the show over there. The...
• 2:29
  There's a texture to your story, though, that I, I heard a little bit of when we, we met for the first time at the David Kane event, and I... We love to talk about how people...
• 2:37
  Like, how did you get here, um, into automotive to begin with? Uh, give us the background. The people need to know who you are. Oh, my gosh.
• 2:45
  Uh, do you want the, the, the two-day version, uh, [laughs] like- Well, you can give us the two-day version at a SodaCon over cocktails. Yeah. [laughs] Um, I'll try to keep it a little focused. You know, I started...
• 2:55
  My, my dad was a journalist, and I always loved hanging out in newsrooms, but I kind of thought I wanted to do something different. Uh, I was really interested in business and economics.
• 3:05
  Uh, but then I got to college and it was sort of like, "Oh, I want to study journalism. I feel like it's something I want to do with my life, I can, uh, that I would feel good about."
• 3:13
  Uh, but I, man, I, I did not enjoy journalism school. [laughs] I loved doing it. I worked at the radio station and the newspaper, um, and kind of really struggled in my classes.
• 3:24
  Uh, I just- What is journalism school like? What, what, what assignments do they give you in journalism school? [laughs] You know, it's like you go out and you write stories.
• 3:30
  You come up with ideas and you interview people and you write stories, but they go nowhere. I mean, maybe if you turn it in, maybe the teacher likes it, they'll show it to the rest of the class.
• 3:39
  You know, I would go write something for the student newspaper and it'd go to, you know, 20,000 or 30,000 educated people the next morning. You get your feedback- Yeah... serious feedback- Instantly...
• 3:48
  from the audience, you know.
• 3:49
  [laughs] And it was, uh, even in those print days when we didn't have the, all the interactivity, uh, it was a very direct feedback loop, you know, from our college community at, in Iowa City, Iowa, University of Iowa.
• 4:01
  Um, so I did that for a while. Uh, stopped going to school for a little while. I was tending bar and thinking I wanted to get a, a real job, but not quite getting around to it.
• 4:12
  My parents said, "Hey, smart guy, there's a job. You know, Cedar Rapids Gazette has an opening." And so I ended up getting hired there.
• 4:19
  Um, kind of started back to school then, 'cause I couldn't get the writing job that I would want until I had a degree. I could get a job because of my talent- Oh... my hard work, but I couldn't get the jobs I wanted.
• 4:29
  So I started back to school. Um, luckily I, I met a woman at the Cedar Rapids Gazette. She got a job in Lexington, Kentucky. After some negotiating, I followed her down there.
• 4:40
  [laughs] Ended up getting my degree in, uh, finance from UK. Uh, it's all g- it's all good. We worked out. We got married. Three adult lovely daughters. Uh, everything's cool.
• 4:50
  Um, you know, I was just like, "I don't want to move to Kentucky unless we're gonna get married and have kids and everything's gonna work out." Right. [laughs] Amen. [laughs] Preach.
• 4:57
  That sounds like a great place to start that life too. I feel that way. Kentucky's like the armpit of Ohio is the way that I see it, so don't tell anyone.
• 5:04
  There's really lovely things about it, but I was wary as a Midwesterner of moving to, uh, the South. Um, but it was a lovely place and a, a great experience, uh, for both of us.
• 5:15
  Um, and so then I got my degree in finance, and the business desk at the Herald-Leader had just lost, like, three of their five reporters, a bunch of really good people going off to Nashville and Chicago and places like that.
• 5:28
  And so I kind of stepped in, uh, and started covering everything until we f- filled in the rest of the team.
• 5:35
  And part of that ended up being, uh, you know, going to cover the job one at, of the Sienna at that Toyota Georgetown plant in Central Kentucky. Hmm. And that's, that was my first auto story. And, uh, did that.
• 5:48
  Uh, you know, I started writing a little about Toyota. I ended up getting to go to the Tokyo Motor Show in 1997. That was my first ever auto show. Um, then- Oh, that's, that's a heck of a one to start on. Right?
• 6:00
  [laughs] It is. [laughs]Well, and my editor was so cool and smart. You know, she had been a, a business writer, uh, w- in, earlier in her career.
• 6:08
  And so she said, you know, she had a little money in the budget and could send me. She said, "Don't try to cover the show. You don't know what you're doing. We don't know how to edit it.
• 6:18
  The time zones are all against us. We'll just run AP like we usually do. But go, you know, fill up your notebook, learn all you can, come back, and we'll figure out what the story is."
• 6:27
  And I got to come back and write about this new kinda car called a fuel cell. And h- Wow... Or I'm sorry, new kind of car called a, called a hybrid. Unreal...
• 6:36
  People said was this stepping stone toward EVs and ultimately something called a hydrogen fuel cell. So I got to learn all about that and try to explain that.
• 6:45
  Um, I also, the other two stories were about- Like, let me try my hand at this super simple thing. [laughs] Right, right. EVs back then was, like, Jetsons mode, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was...
• 6:56
  Well, and what was so cool, that first gen Prius, and you still see it in some, but they had the little graphics, the video.
• 7:03
  You know, the, they were just very simple graphics, but it was on the little- Yeah, like energy's going from the wheels to the engine- Yeah... from the engine to the battery- Yep... from the- Who's powering what here?
• 7:12
  And you, you know, and it was really let you understand what could be a really complicated process. That's... Okay, so when did you decide- Okay, I-... you liked auto? When did I dec- Like, are you a car guy at all?
• 7:25
  It came later. I'm, I like cars. I don't consider myself a car guy. [laughs] You're in good company. Yeah. But [laughs] I do like cars. Um, but I'm like, I don't know. If I, um, when I buy cars, I really want the value.
• 7:39
  I'm like a lot of regular American consumers. I want a reliable car, uh, that's gonna get me where I need to go, do what I need it to do, cause me as little headache as possible.
• 7:49
  Um, but I was there, I covered autos about 20% of the time in Lexington, and then the Detroit Free Press called me up. They had had a strike and a turnover of their team, and the strike was settled.
• 7:59
  And so I was like, "All right, I can come to Detroit." And, um, well, I thought, like, that was the pinnacle of journalist, business journalism, right? Covering autos for- Right... the Detroit Free Press. Yeah.
• 8:10
  Uh, that seemed, that was a pretty big deal for me. And it was still, uh, you know, really hard to get by.
• 8:17
  Um, even though, you know, the auto writers tend to get paid better than a lot of other reporters, you know, it- It's kinda like every other position in auto. It's hard. The automotive GMs- Is that...
• 8:26
  I didn't know that... get paid more than- That's real interesting. Why is that, though? Oh- Why?... 'cause it's so competitive. It's so competitive- Oh, yeah... and, uh, hours, um- Yeah...
• 8:35
  not that other reporters don't work hard, but our hours are so routinely grueling. Um, it's very- Oh my gosh, it's so funny how automotive journalism really does reflect the ind- That just blew my mind... the industry.
• 8:46
  Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. You could literally go and say all those things about all the other positions in a dealership, and whether it's marketing, management. This is... All right, we're, we're already- Right?...
• 8:56
  on a good... Yeah. Collaboration. It's going great. So, absolutely. So okay, so you're at Detroit Free Press, right?
• 9:02
  You're working the long hours, you're doing the work, and it's still, there's something there that is like, "Mm." So- "Gotta be more." Yeah.
• 9:10
  And I was, uh, I was probably getting a lot closer to burning out than I was aware that I was. Uh, and then I was fortunate enough to, two things.
• 9:18
  First, I got to go to China and work on a project about General Motors and its strategy in Asia. Um, and that was a super experience.
• 9:29
  Great to get to, you know, write something that long, get to go to a place I'd only ever read about before. Um, really fascinating stuff.
• 9:36
  And then that work really helped get me into the Knight-Wallace Fellowship at the University of Michigan. So I got to take, like, a school year off, uh, from the daily grind.
• 9:46
  And, uh, I woke up one day in, like, November, and it's like, "Oh, this is what it feels like to be- Hey... caught up on your sleep." [laughs] It took about three months. But- How many kids did you have at that point?
• 9:56
  Tell me about that. Yeah. No. [laughs] I, I, I had like a five-, three-, and one-year-old. Um, so- [laughs] Go ahead. It sounds about right. I, I was catching up on some sleep. My wife, unfortunately, was not.
• 10:06
  Um- [laughs] Right. Yeah... so, uh, came back to the Free Press. I then became auto editor and, uh, kinda ran that coverage for a while through another round of UAW talks.
• 10:18
  Um, then I went to Bloomberg News and spent about 10 years there, here in Detroit, um, running, mostly running the auto team and other transportation coverage.
• 10:27
  Of course, I started there right before, you know, GM and Chrysler's bankruptcies, and it was a really- I bet that was a nuts time. Yeah... in- incredibly turbulent- Wow...
• 10:36
  and, uh, working around the clock, and, um, really intense, but a very great learning experience, uh, being there. And then almost five years ago, uh, I came to Automotive News.
• 10:50
  And it was sort of, it's this different, you know, we're all, I've covered, I've do- so I've covered autos for now for 25 years. I've covered autos exclusively since basically the day after the Bush versus Gore election.
• 11:02
  And, um- Wow... but at the Free Press, you know, you're writing mostly, mostly for employees. Um, and also for consumers and the general public, politicians and stuff.
• 11:14
  But, like, mostly- But employees of, employees of the manufacturers. Employees, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Employees of the manufacturers, yep. They're our big readers. And employees of suppliers.
• 11:23
  Um, you know, UAW members, salary folks. Yeah. That's our, that's our core audience. At Bloomberg, of course, it's the financial markets. It's the bond market, to a lesser extent the stock market, again, policy people.
• 11:35
  Um, and then here at Automotive News, like, we have a, a huge footprint, of course, with dealers. Um, they're, you know, a, a big chunk.
• 11:43
  They're not even half of our readers, but they're a much bigger chunk than they are for anyone else, any of the other, you know, big players.
• 11:50
  Uh, so it's been a great opportunity for me to learn a lot more about dealers, get to meet a lot more of them than I really got to in the other jobs. Gee whiz.
• 11:59
  I wanna go back to, because it's fascinating to me that youWe, we were in a Toyota dealership the other day, and, um, uh, not to, like, the, the, uh, give away all of the, you know, there's not a- of the Toyota dealer meeting, but, um, you said, "Hey, I was kind of the first on the scene.
• 12:18
  I was there writing about this new technology that was gonna be the hybrid technology."
• 12:24
  And being it in the Toyota Prius, and, and Toyota having been in the game for a significant amount of time, and still being a massive leader in the hybrid game, and, and I'm sure your perspective on the industry because you're seeing everything that's going on with EVs and with the, with, um, you know, the new entrants to the market, and that's the massive push with Toyota still staying in this, like, very heavy hybrid game, the majority of their, their vehicles.
• 12:52
  How, how is that going from, like, "I covered this first thing." [laughs] Now everything's about EVs, and Toyota's over here, like, "Remember the one time when we were doing the thing- Uh... back in '97?
• 13:04
  And we're still doing it." Yeah. Like, what is that, what does that feel like to kind of cover those things in that, in that world of you constantly being in that? Yeah.
• 13:13
  It's, I mean, it's, it's been a fascinating journey and a, you know... Of course, you only can, uh, benefit from all that perspective by, you know, s- putting, having, spending all that dang time, you know?
• 13:26
  [laughs] Yeah. It's, uh- Yeah, sure... um, but it's been really fascinating. You know, Toyota is definitely in the crosshairs of a lot of environmentalists now because they've stuck with the hybrid strategy.
• 13:37
  And I think, you know, they've just been trapped by a lot of, um, you know, traditional thinking. You could call it logic if you want. I mean, EVs- [laughs]... are money-losing cars, right?
• 13:48
  There he goes with traditional thinking, you know, thinking logically. Right. That was great. That was great. But, you know, it's, you, because the tech world sometimes is a, is a different kind of logic, right? Yeah.
• 13:58
  We're gonna lose money on everything until we suddenly become huge and awesome, and then it'll all turn great.
• 14:04
  And that worked for Elon and it worked for Bezos, you know, but there's a lot of cats it doesn't work for, [laughs] especially if you also- Far more... manufacture things, right? So,
• 14:15
  you know, if, if, if EVs are gonna lose $5,000 each during a, you know, ramp-up period of five years, 10 years, you look at, like, Tesla's own, uh, curve from deep losses to significant profits.
• 14:32
  You know, if you're- Right... Toyota and you make 10 million a year, I mean, you can't even lose a thousand a piece or you're, that's $100 million, 100, you know, $100 billion- [laughs]... you're gonna lose every year.
• 14:41
  Uh, I'm sorry, 10 million times 1,000 would be 10 billion. $10 billion a year in losses would be devastating for Toyota. They, they, that's not the way they roll. Right.
• 14:49
  I think Toyota and Honda and the other Japanese really had a light bulb moment this spring when they went to the China show and saw all the EVs that were coming out of China.
• 15:01
  I think they've seen in the West, you know, the, what, in Europe mostly, but also in the US, a lot of excitement and enthusiasm around EVs to where they're now saying, "Okay, maybe it is a losing business proposition for the short term, but this is where the market's going.
• 15:17
  It is where enthusiasm- We have to do it... from consumers is, so we've got to do it." And now they're really buckling down. You s- Toyota's already added 20% to their investment on EVs. Mm-hmm.
• 15:27
  It's gonna take some time, of course, 'cause everything takes time, but, um, they're gonna come back. I think they're gonna come out real strong eventually. Yeah. Late this decade maybe.
• 15:37
  I mean, Toyota's definitely one of those that's like, "Well, maybe we didn't do it first, but we're definitely gonna do it best." Yeah. That's usually their play.
• 15:44
  And some of their battery solid state- All right, now we-... battery technology, like, they might just come out of the back and be like, "Oh, how does 700 miles of range sound?"
• 15:51
  [laughs] Now, we would be remiss if in the middle of the UAW strike- Oh, yeah... we didn't say something about it. So here's my angle for you. Here's my question, because- Hold on.
• 16:02
  I, I feel like we need to play this for Jamie, 'cause he probably hasn't heard it yet. But we have a little, a sound track that we play every morning when we update, and it, it sounds like this.
• 16:10
  [upbeat music] UAW update. [laughs] We had to do it. We had to do it. That, does, that, that opening riff, is that from, like, Johnny Carson? Is that the- No, it's Bob, Bob Barker, Price Is Right. Oh.
• 16:22
  [laughs] Price Is Right. Yeah. [laughs] You got it. You got it. [laughs] Something from the '70s. Yes. Yes. [laughs] So here's, here's my, my question for you and the angle, 'cause I, you know, we see all the updates.
• 16:34
  Everybody can read that. But when, when you all are thinking, especially at Automotive News, y- because you have readers and audience in dealer partners, dealers, UAW and union workers, and OEMs, right?
• 16:51
  That, like, all of those are a massive part of the audience that's paying attention to what, w- what the news cycle is.
• 17:01
  How do you honor and, and also keep all of that, like, updated in, in a way that serves them, um, but also, like, recognizes that the other side is, is listening and watching because it's the central source of truth for the majority of automotive?
• 17:18
  Like, what does that look like? What's that conversation look like in the, you know, behind, behind the scenes? Give us, give us a, give us a peek into what that feels like right now. Right. Um, you know,
• 17:29
  s- some of it, I, I don't wanna, I don't mean to sound like a cop-out. I mean, some of it is just doing, you know, what we always do, which is just try to, try to get the facts, put them in context, be fair.
• 17:40
  Uh, you know, we n- we expect every story to be read, scrutinized, uh, and, and prosecuted by, you know- [laughs]... by management, shareholders, uh, uh, labor, and everyone else.
• 17:55
  Gee, that sounds like a low-stress position you have there. [laughs] Well, it just, it goes with the territory.
• 18:01
  You know, you wanna, you, you, you don't, because you don't wanna do harm to anybody by- Of courseShortchanging them or, or, you know, uh, being flip with their situation.
• 18:11
  Uh, but you also need to be interesting and, you know, again, it's, it's about being relevant and being right. Uh, we also, you know, I, I think I've talked about this before.
• 18:20
  I, I think I talked about it probably at the Kane thing, Paul. But, um, you know, we reor- I reorganized the newsroom around what used to be my, my formula for the front page. Still kind of is, you know?
• 18:30
  Um, but the idea of, uh, what I call making, selling, and thinking, right? So we have our, our automaker team, we have our retailer team, and then we have our tech and innovation, you know, sort of mobility team. Mm-hmm.
• 18:43
  And, um, of course, it, it affects the tech and innovation group less, but like, you know, right away it's like, "Hey, what's happening with dealers?" Right? Retail team, be out there talking to your dealers.
• 18:52
  What, what are you hearing? What are, what are they hearing? What are they worried about?
• 18:56
  Um, you know, we're like, okay, if something's happening with UAW, you know, let's get out there, let's see it, let's hear people, and of course, let's talk to our sources at the companies.
• 19:05
  Let's talk to all the experts, all the historians, all the, all the labor pros. And really it's just, you know, trying to, to know as much as we can and then really to
• 19:17
  tease out the stuff that we don't know, the stuff we don't understand, you know? Uh, so we have a story, I guess I can talk about it. It's still in the works, but hopefully it'll be out before this podcast [laughs] airs.
• 19:29
  Well, hold on a minute. Before you do that, when are we launching this? [laughs] 'Cause it could be tomorrow. [laughs] Our story's running tomorrow morning. Okay, good. I think. No. Oh, yeah.
• 19:37
  This, this won't be out before then. You'll be good. Right. Okay, good. So- Go for it...
• 19:41
  uh, we're looking at, so one of the, one of the big issues, you know, when you see Shawn Fain, when he's been out during these rallies and during the, at, when he's been at the picket lines, he wears a red T-shirt that says, "No tiers."
• 19:52
  Yeah. Well, I mean, we had a contract already where we eliminated the tiers. You know, there used to be if you were hired after a certain date, you could only get to a certain wage.
• 20:00
  I was trying to make sense of that shirt today when I saw it. It's frustrating.
• 20:05
  Uh, but to them, they've sort of, I mean, it's frustrating to me that the semantics have changed and they've redefined what tiers are apparently.
• 20:13
  But they have this issue where if you get hired, you know, at a McDonald's-like wage, it's eight years before you reach the top pay, and it used to be 90 days. Um, so that's- Oh, wow... a long time.
• 20:27
  That's two contracts really [laughs] before you can get to the top pay. And that's, that's a lot to expect from people, and it's really not competitive in this labor market.
• 20:36
  So I, I would certainly expect the bot- the entry pay to come up. Um, and they've already offered, the automakers have all offered to cut the ramp-up time in half. They may have to come down further. Uh,
• 20:50
  I mean, to me, uh, it's like they're, the UAW has a couple of really major non-starters in their demand list. Uh, the four-day work week, the return of, uh, defined benefit pensions.
• 21:02
  You know, the automakers just can't do that. Uh, as I just keep saying, you know, they- That's why they bankrupt, yeah... every board member would get fired if they [laughs] if they came out- Right...
• 21:11
  with an agreement like that. Um, so maybe if they can give up some of that, maybe they can gain some more on this issue of tiers.
• 21:17
  You know, but it's just, it's like, it's a, it's a puzzling one because the, the, the truth or the reality or the perception of the reality has shifted over the years.
• 21:26
  So that's, it's challenging, but that's what makes it interesting. Certainly interesting. Yeah. [laughs] Certainly interesting. No, no small task. So kudos to you and your team- Thanks...
• 21:36
  for, uh, just keeping us aware and, uh, and, and serving the industry in that way.
• 21:42
  Uh, it's, it's been cool to- I, I gotta give credit to Mike Martinez and, and Nick Bunkley, of course, Vin- Vince Bond and, and Lindsey VanHolle as well.
• 21:48
  But, I mean, Martinez, you know, in addition to being a, a top-notch Ford reporter, has really, um, owned the UAW coverage and, uh, super proud of all the great work he's been doing. It's so good. It's so good. Yeah.
• 21:59
  Qui- quite a team. Well, it's been fun to, uh, get to know a little of your journey. Take a peek behind the curtain of, uh, of the real time stuff right now.
• 22:07
  I'm excited to, to hang out with you at ASOTU CON and, and hear your perspective there amongst panelists and, uh, it, it'll certainly be fun. So thanks for joining us on Auto Collapse today, Jay. Absolutely.
• 22:18
  Glad to do it. [upbeat music] You know- Okay. He handled that UAW question with- Dude... all the poise in the world. I was like [laughs] But when he says- "Let's see if we can crack him."
• 22:31
  He was like, "Boop-boop-boop-boop-boop." No, but he actually gave some, some really cool insights into like, hey, some of the things that you don't see and we've gotta figure out as journalists.
• 22:43
  And we, we do this work too here at ASOTU. It's like, wait, yesterday and then four years ago and, but now today, and mapping all that together across teams, serving dealers, serving, you know, all of that.
• 22:57
  The experience that he's had for the past 25 years in auto sets him up for that. And I, like, I for one, the, when he goes, "Prosecuted daily for," I'm like, "Yep, that sounds about right." Who's signing up for that one?
• 23:11
  I couldn't handle that. [laughs] Yeah. Jordan sounds a good job.
• 23:13
  But the way that he handled it seriously, so how knowledgeable and humble he was, and the fact that he just basically said, "We cover the story the way that you should," like that was mind-blowing.
• 23:24
  That's pretty mic-droppy. I know. Yeah. We're, we're his new fan club, if you haven't noticed. Yes. [laughs] And he's like, "What?" Number one fans. You guys, he's like, "You guy- we're at ASOTU CON."
• 23:31
  He's like, "You're making a bigger deal than I get around here." And we're like, "Yeah, we're just trying to help you build your resume so you can leverage it into your next, uh, contract negotiation with, uh, KC Crane."
• 23:41
  So [laughs] that's all we're trying to do really on the show today. Thank you so much.
• 23:44
  On behalf of Kyle Mounts here, Jordan Cox in standing in for Michael Cirillo, and myself, Paul Jay Daly, thank you so much for listening to Auto Collapse.
• 23:54
  Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U.com.
• 24:06
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 24:13
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collapse. Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet?
• 24:32
  Not yet.