Latest / Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman / Dr. Kirk Schneider - Life Enhancing Anxiety

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Dr. Kirk Schneider - Life Enhancing Anxiety · Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman

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My name is Victor Ferman. Some call me the Voice. I've always been
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fascinated with human nature, spirituality, science and the crossroads at which they meet.
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Join me now and we will explore these topics and so much more with
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fascinating guests, authors and experts who will guide us to Destination Unlimited. Forty
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million adults nineteen point one percent of the population aged eighteen and older cope with
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anxiety disorders, According to the Anxiety and Depression Association of America, can anxiety
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be life enhancing and actually promote sanity and deeper understanding in our world? My
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this week on Destination Unlimited, Existential humanistic psychologist doctor Kirk Schneider asserts life enhancing
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anxiety foster's cross cultural bridge, building creative enrichment and social engagement. It can
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also bolster spiritual well being. Doctor Schneider is a leading spokesperson for existential humanistic
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and existential integrative psychology as an adjunct faculty member at Saybrook University and Teachers College,
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Columbia University, and a co founder and current president of the award winning
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Existential Humanistic Institute. His website is Kirk J. Schneider dot com and he
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joins me this week to share his path and the latest book, Life Enhancing
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Anxiety, Key to a Same World. Please join me in welcoming to Destination
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Unlimited, doctor Kirk Schneider. Welcome Kirk. Thank you very much. Victor,
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thank you for joining us and sharing your new book, Life Enhancing Anxiety.
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He to the Same World. Please share with our listeners your path and
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how it led to your calling. Well, it really began when I was
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a very young child. So much my book is focused on my personal struggle
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with anxiety and efforts to transform that anxiety into a more life enhancing path,
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if you will. So it really began when, at a very young age,
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I was about two and a half, my seven year old brother died
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of a series of diseases, and this was approximately a ten month process for
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him, as I understand it, and the upheaval and the the shiring really
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that that caused both for me and my parents, you know, very dramatically
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brought me into the world of anxiety of trauma, and much again of what
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I've written about comes out of that time where my parents, being very psychologically
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minded, actually referred me to a psychoanalyst when I was six years old,
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and I was still struggling mightily with the fallout from the death, struggling not
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only within myself, but to a notable degree with my parents, my mother
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in particular. I think it was particularly powerful, you know, for my
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mother, and she she struggled a great deal emotionally to just cope with that
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abyss in her life, and there were times where she was both emotionally and
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physically absent when I was very young, and that caused a lot of tension
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and challenges for both of us. I give her and my father the utmost
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credit on retrospect. I can't imagine losing a child and what that would bring,
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so I think they did their absolute best to support me through the process.
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But more to the point of life enhancing anxiety, which I define as
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the capacity to live with and make the best of the depth and mystery of
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existence. I went through that process, at least in a preliminary way with
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the psychoanalysts that I saw for about a year, and I was very fortunate
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in being able to obtain his notes actually on my experience with him about thirty
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years later, when I was writing a book about classic horror books and films,
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because I was very curious about what drew me to classic horror, or
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how my own psychology led to that interest, and so I visited him,
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and he happened to have an old notebook of his observations of me, and
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so anyway, he agreed to give me a summary of that, and I've
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actually published that in the book. But in those notes, it's very clear
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to me how pivotal he was in my life, both as a model somebody
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who seemed to have been through a lot himself, and I think I recognize
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that at a very young age and yet who had not only survived but thrived,
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you know, as a very accomplished professional and decent human being, but
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also in how he helped me to develop what you might call new internalizations toward
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life and toward myself. I had terrible fears of death and dying of illness,
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I had night terrors. I was afraid of monsters and witches in particular,
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and I had a lot of distrust of life and even to some degree
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my parents at the time, my mother in particular, because of the difficulty
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of you know, the the shift and in our worlds after my brother's death.
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And he really helped me to stay present more more present to myself and
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to ask questions about my situation, to be to learn to move from a
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place of you know, really abject terror and paralysis to gradual intrigue and even
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curiosity about my situation, and to learn that all was not a disaster,
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that I was surviving, and that there were some very good things in my
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life, and that I, as I was saying before, I could relate
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to myself and the world in a more trusting an open way. And that
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led to my own creativity actually kind of flowering of my own creativity and developing
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like a play a theater as a kid, you know, using little figures
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that I had, toy figures, and creating movie sets and plays and doing
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a lot of impromptu talking on my ape recorder that my father got me,
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and doing some some skits and things like that with him as well, and
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eventually an interest in philosophy and psychology and a fascination with the human journey.
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I also should mention it opened me to a great interest in science fiction,
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and there were some terrific television shows at the time which you probably remember absolutely
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the similar age of Twilight Zone and the Outer Limits that very much spoke to
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me, and you know, presenting these strange people and creatures and places that
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also raised fascinating questions about who we are, what this life is about,
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what really matters about our lives? So very fundamental questions that I was able
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to become more free to explore through this psychoanalytic process. Please tell us about
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your mentor Rollo May and the practice of existentialist humanistic psychology. Rollo May was
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a great figure on many levels for me. I had studied Rollah's work actually
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as early as probably my last year of high school and first year of college.
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I was fascinated. Especially, I think where Rollo and I really connected
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was around the whole theme of paradox of paradoxes of human experienced and I certainly
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felt those acutely from very early childhood, in that you know, we are
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at one level, extremely limited, gradual, small creatures, but at the
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same time, we have a powerful ability to create ourselves, to transcend,
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to experience participating in something much greater than ourselves, to connect with the cosmic
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spiritual background that I think we're all traveling through. So this paradox well,
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Frankly Ernest Becker, the great cultural anthropologist who wrote I think a seminal book
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that Rollo really resonated with called The Denial of Death. He said that we're
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gods. Who shit? I mean, you know, we are in a
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crazy condition. And I think Rolo and I really connected on that point of
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the paradoxes of our lives that were extremely limited on one hand, but we
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also are have a great capacity for freedom and of choice. And he was
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generous enough to write the preface to my first book, which is the Paradox
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of Self or an Understanding of our contradictory nature, and I participated in a
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number of seminars that he provided. He was also on my dissertation committee and
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eventually asked me to co write a book that became The Psychology of Existence,
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an integrative clinical perspective for a new generation of therapists who were interested in existential
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psychology. But as a as a person, he was very multidimensional, wonderfully
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warm and generous to many of his students and very much include myself, but
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also could be quite challenging, very straightforward, and you know, encountering you
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know, a student, I'll take myself encountering me around certain ideas that I
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held, and he would, you know, he would provide time to unpack
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those and and try to help me to get more clarity on just what it
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was that I was thinking about in terms of clients that I was seeing,
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in terms of theories I was developing. And he was a straight shooter,
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and he wrote, freedom and anxiety are two sides of the coin. There
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is never one without the other. You share that your studies and personal experiences
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confirmed this very much so, I mean Rollo. He actually wrote a book
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that was a forerunner to my book, Life Enhancing Anxiety. He wrote a
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book in nineteen fifty which was based on his dissertation called The Meaning of Anxiety,
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where he was trying to bring out the many dimensions of anxiety that the
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culture, even in nineteen fifty, he felt was drifting away from because of
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its increasing emphasis on a kind of mechanized lifestyle, routinized lifestyle, and that
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people were attempting to do all they can to get rid of anxiety instead of
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seeing that anxiety has many components. It certainly can be crippling and paralyzing and
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overwhelming, and I don't want to downplay that at all, but that's often
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because we don't address the underlying more fundamental anxieties of the fear of the unknown,
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and the fear of the unknown can also be a call to the unknown
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if if we're provided skills and tools to help us to work with that unknown,
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and that unknown is very primal. In my experience and through my research,
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I've really come around to resonating with autor ranks understanding of the bases of
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anxiety, and Rollo certainly resonated with that, which is that anxiety occurs from
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the moment of birth, basically when we're thrown into existence, that radical shift
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from relative non being and unity to the mother to the cosmos, if you
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will, to sudden abrupt being and pandemonia, where we're in a kind of
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a groundless and helpless state. We're floundering. And the whole question is how
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are we met at that point, both by our caretakers and the culture that
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receives us. Are we met with a more supportive and understanding approach, or
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are we met with many fears? And unfortunately, I think too often in
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our culture, especially cultures like ours, were met with great deal of fear,
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and that as a result cuts us off from the potentially life enhancing aspects
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of the anxiety again being able to experience that call to the unknown, not
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just the terror of the unknown. And I do believe children at birth experience
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both a trauma of birth, as Rock would put it, but also the
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wonder of birth. I think they're elements of wonder to it. So that's
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why I call it a drama of birth rather than trauma. And we're not
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very good generally at helping children to cultivate that those elements of wonder and discovery
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in their relationship to that which is unknown, that which is other and foreign.
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We're much more quick to hit them with rules and regulations and us and
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them mentalities. You stay away from those people in those places and those foreigners,
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etc. And stay on this sort of safe but very narrow track quote
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safe and or track. But as a result, we develop we often develop
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many, you know, problematic effects from that because we don't know how to
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handle anxiety very well. So we have a lot of defenses that distance us
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from it, you know, whether those are attempting to make us appear strong
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and intimidating or even tyrannical. And I see this individually as well as culturally,
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to avoid any hint of our fragility and our our life in the unknown,
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if you will, or we look for quick fixes and instant results through
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our devices, etc. And when Raoula talked about freedom being the other side
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of the coin of anxiety, he's talking about this. He's saying that because
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we don't embrace that invigorating dimension of anxiety that signals that were on the edge
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of wonder and discovery, we tend to live very limited and imprisoned lives to
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a great extent. What are the physiological and emotional mechanisms of anxiety and how's
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it triggered? Well, I was just speaking to you aspects of how it's
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triggered. I think it's triggered right from the beginning as soon as we're jarred
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out of that passive receptive mode of the fetal position into that which is different,
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that which is other, that which is this world of chaos that we're
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trying to cope with when we're thrown into it. That's the psychological part,
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and I do think that that forms the template really for virtually all future anxiety
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and trauma. And again the question is do we have the tools the equipment
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to work with it at a physiological level. There have been some very interesting
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experiments from for example, the highly reputable research center in Sweden called the Carolyns
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the Institute. They did studies of newborn's levels of stress stress hormones catecholamines that
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are released at the point of birth, and they found that those stress hormones
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are not only higher than normal adult stress, but they're higher than severe adult
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stress. So that gives us a pretty strong indication that something extremely powerful is
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going on at the point of birth that probably makes its impression on us forms
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the background or many of our fears and uncertainties for the rest of our lives,
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and again not not all a bad thing if we can learn how to
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work with it. And that's that's the whole idea of life enhancing, as
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it is being able to come into those fears of the unknown so that we
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can have a greater range of inner freedom to experience ourselves in the world.
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My guest is doctor Kirk Schneider his book Life Enhancing Anxiety, Key to a
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Sane World. Kirk, please tell our listeners where they can get your books
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and find out more about you and your work. Again yet ready access to
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my books at Amazon or Barnes and Noble, or certainly with the publisher,
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which is University Professor's Press, and they can get to know more about my
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work at my website Kirk J. Schneider dot com. And we'll be back
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with more of Kirk and at Life Enhancing Anxiety Key to the Same World after
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these words on the Own Times Radio network. Free your Mind with Own Times
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Radio, I Own Them. Home Times Magazine is one of the leading online
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on Destination Unlimited. My guest this week, doctor Kirkschneider his book Life Enhancing
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Anxiety, Key to a Sane World. Kirk, how can Life Enhancing Anxiety
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lead to a more sane, sustainable and awe informed world. First, it
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can help us to live with each other in a more sane and sustainable way
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if you will, But it begins with being able to live with and even
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thrive with oneself. And that involves, you know, being able to experience
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other people, especially who can help us to work with our anxiety rather than
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to simply avoid it or erect defenses that give us the illusion, let's say,
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of power and control, but the really based on a lot of reactivity
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and often lead to destructiveness and evaluation, either of ourselves or of others.
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So I'm a very big supporter of in depth experiential psychotherapy, even a particularly
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longer term psychotherapy, to help us cultivate more what I would call emotionally restorative
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relationships, because we suffer so much in our society from what I call emotionally
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impoverished relationships, where we're we're dealing with you know, often absent parenting or
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very a sparse number of people in our culture who can help help us to
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to cultivate our anxiety and more fruitful ways, and and we're we're more reliant
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on our devices for our relationships, which don't usually help us to work with
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and make the best of the depth and mystery of our existence. If anything,
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they help us to kind of skim the surfaces. And we get this
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message from our politicians and from our media. Often there's so much emphasis on
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the quick fix and instant answer. And so I think we we really need
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to slow down. We need to have places and people who help us slow
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down and to again work with with our anxiety, so that we can come
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from a place of greater deliberateness in our actions, our creativity, ability to
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choose more of the direction of our lives, and an ability to focus on
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what deeply matters in our lives. And as I was saying, psychotherapy can
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be helpful there, especially in depth experiential psychotherapy where the therapist is really involved
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as a person and not only providing techniques. Meditation practices can be helpful,
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certain other non dogmatic, philosophical and spiritual practices, and all of these I
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think can help our society move more toward a creative, ethically sound culture where
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again we respond more to each other rather than react toward each other or react
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against each other. You share that awe I'm sorry sorry, go ahead,
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I say, and ourselves to come more from a place of responsivity rather than
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reactivity. You share that awe meaning the humility and wonder or sense of adventure
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toward living takes us beyond judgment. How may we learn to embrace awe build
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experiences well. The sense of awe, which I define as the humility and
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wonder or sense of adventure toward living, is one of the most important outgrowths
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of life enhancing anxiety, because the sense of awe is precisely about having that
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range within that capacity to experience. Both are fragile and vulnerable sides, which
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can be very illuminating and sensitizing toward toward life and toward our world and toward
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what deeply matters for ourselves. But it helps us attune to both that vulnerable
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and fragile side as well as that side that is attempting to yearns to venture
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out, to ask questions, to be creative, to experience participating in something
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much greater than ourselves, something that I call enchanted agnosticism, which is taking
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mystery seriously and being able to really fully feel the the power, the amazement,
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the uplift of our connection with the unknown. And it's that's very connected
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to again, a life of wonder, of discovery, of adventure. And
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when you think about adventure, um it's usually not just a narrow band of
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happiness or cheerfulness, if you will, It has depths to it. It's
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think about you know, venturing through the woods, you're not sure what's around
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the corner. It's certainly a degree of apprehension. There's a lot of unknowns.
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There may be you know, predators around, etc. You're not sure
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if you're route exactly. But that's part of the excitement of it, right,
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and part of the intensity and part of what really deeply moves us in
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those circumstances. And at the same time, there's an exuberance about coming into
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that unknown and expanding our consciousness and that unknown, and continually being open to
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the degree possible and practical to learning new things about ourselves, about the world,
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about other people. And yeah, so I think this is a very
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vital perspective, this all based consciousness, both on the individual and collective level.
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And we didn't even get into the whole movement toward supportive, structured dialogues
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between people of very different background especially liberals and conservatives, but it could be
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racial backgrounds, religious backgrounds, etc. We have so much divisiveness in our
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society now and this kind of all base consciousness is something I and others have
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been trying to bring into these structured, supportive dialogues. And as I was
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about to share we are living in one of the most politically divisive times that
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I can remember in my life. You have a six phase method, experiential
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democracy dialogue. Why do you believe that this can unite the polarized red and
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blue Americans? Well, because I've seen it and I've experienced it as a
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member of one of these groups. I was a member and trained moderator or
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the grassroots movement called Braver Angels, which has over ten thousand members in the
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US and all fifty states, and I participated in a local chapter here in
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the in the Bay Area, and I witness very much firsthand how people on
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very different sides of particular issues, especially conservative liberal sides, could not only
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sit down and begin to explore with each other their respective points of view in
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a civil way, but actually feel the possibility of being friendly or maybe even
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friends with that person. And I think one of the most important aspects that
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comes out of these dialogues that I have also developed. You had mentioned it
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before, what I call the experiential to democracy dialogue, which is a one
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on one, i'd say, more intimate approach to humanizing conversations between people on
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very contrasting sides. Probably the most important outcome of these dialogues is not necessarily
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that people end up agreeing about ideological stances per se, although I think it
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can create conditions whereby that's more likely to happen. But it's the ability to
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just simply sit with one another and appreciate one another as human beings, as
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opposed to just labels their stereotypes. And if we could promote more of that
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in our society, that would go a long way toward, if not feeling
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the divides in some total way, at least putting us on a footing that
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will increase the likelihood that we will be able to get along with each other
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better and frankly survives as a culture and world. I think that that much
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is on the line. We're talking about, you know, the potential for
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some kind of civil, civil war or such destructiveness that basically puts our our
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human species in the balance. When we talk about the you know, the
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bigger weaponry that could be involved in the divisiveness that we're facing. Has has
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listening and really hearing become a lost art. I wouldn't say it's a lost
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art, and a number of us are trying to you know, reawaken it
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as noted just a moment ago. But but it's certainly I would say that
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it's an imperiled it's a threatened art because of the seductiveness of the quick,
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fixed, instant result world that so many of us live in, and and
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the kind of haste that that promotes, you know, getting to the next
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appointment, um, you know, trying to earn the buck as quickly as
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we can. And certainly there are many people who are just in very dire
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circumstances and they have to get bread on the table. That's the problem in
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our society. We have very few safety nets for such people, and there's
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there's little support, or too little support, I would say, for too
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many people to be able to have the luxury to slow down, to reflect
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more deeply on what really matters in their lives, to be able to encounter
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and work with the anxieties that come up, for them to have the means
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to work with psychotherapists as I have and privilege to do. And so you
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know, this is this is a major major challenge for us is actually having
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more of these places that could support life enhancing anxiety accessible affordable to many more
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people, especially in underserved communities. So we have that whole problem of people
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being in a lot of stress and and and haste and grabbing for straws unfortunately
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too often, but quick fixes, you know, whether that's drugs or fast
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food, or you know, maybe a political champion that they're they're living through.
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But we also have the whole corporate structure that you know, emphasizes the
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bottom line thinking, profit margin thinking that does not allow a lot of room
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for again, deeper reflection on the meaning and implications of people's work and striving
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for the buck or for some certain material goods but may not in the long
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run really be fulfilling or personally, you know, gratifying in terms of how
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they want to live and how they want to contribute to our culture. Or
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are there tips or advice that you could offer for people to learn how to
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listen? Yes, I would. I would begin with listening to yourself.
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Taking some time often alone, time undistracted, even fifteen twenty minutes. Maybe
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go for a walk and just tune into what you're feeling, sensing, thinking,
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especially I think feeling sensing, imaging, and perhaps to the world around
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you, and develop a greater capacity to be with those feelings, body,
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sensations, imaginings and attempt to practice that slowing down, that reflective process when
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you're with your friends, your family associates, perhaps at work, and really
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develop the capacity to clear space or that kind of inner listening and outer listening.
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So, for example, when you're your friend or your family member is
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speaking to try not to interrupt, give them, give them some time,
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give them room to say their peace, and insist on having that that time
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and space for yourself to to convey what really matters. I mean, this
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is partly why it can be so helpful to look at, for example,
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that six phase model that you talked about before, these dialogue approaches, which
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are highly supportive and structured, and they have ground rules that really and strain
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people from coming at each other in conversations, you know, resuming to know
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what the other person is thinking or saying, rather than giving them a chance
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to elaborate what they're thinking or saying, not having answers in your questions.
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The people come trying to comfort place of genuine curiosity as opposed to presumption stereotype.
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But this, you know, this takes some time to as I say,
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develop that within yourself, that that tolerance for the anxiety that tolerance for
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ambiguity, a kind of a centeredness that allows you to be more deliberative in
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your approach to yourself and to others. His book is entitled Life Enhancing Anxiety
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Key to the Same World. Will be back with more of doctor Kirkschneider after
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these words on the Own Times Radio network. Humanity Healing International is a small
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nonprofit with a big drain. Since two thousand and seven, HHI has been
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Healing dot org. Humanity Healing is where your heart is. Back on Destination
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Unlimited. My guest this week is doctor Kurt Schneider. His book is called
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Life Enhancing Anxiety et a Sane World. Kirk fear of the unknown may be
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paralyzing. Why should you nurture trust in the ultimately unknowable, because that is
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precisely what has spawned great human thought, creativity, artistry, discoveries in science,
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in the practical world of business organizations, and certainly in relationships, being
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able to you know, to stay with, to work with, to inquire
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into the unknown with lovers, with friends, family. I mean, these
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are part of the marvelous adventures of being human. And and again, I
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guess I would summarize it as so life affirming because that ability to be in
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a wonder and discovery mode enables us to to optimize our our ability to be
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ethical with each other, you know, to to live with our differences,
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our otherness, if you will, to build bridges between those differences and that
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otherness. And it also spawns spawn a great deal of creativity, of innovation
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because that, you know, that requires a capacity to tolerate some degree of
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anxiety, uncertainty, and failure at times to two come up with great ideas,
45:42
great practices, great applications that improve our lives. You mentioned relationships.
45:53
I've been blessed with wonderful life enhancing relationships. What are the key traits of
46:00
relationships that lift you up and restore your mind, body and spirit. When
46:08
we were talking about Rollo May before and being a straight shooter and you know,
46:13
somebody who really wants to really encourage is an authentic connection and authentic encounter.
46:23
And I think that's part of it is people being real with each other.
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But that also brings in a responsibility. I don't want to downplay the
46:44
element of realness and authenticity about what that what that situation involves, what that
47:04
person, let's say, can tolerate or can deal with in an encounter.
47:10
It's an authenticity and a realness to the whole context, is my point,
47:16
and not just one's own whim. But I think the more aware we are,
47:22
the more conscious we are, the more capable we are of seeing the
47:29
many dimensions of a given a conversation or relationship and being and being honest about
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what is, what is workable, what is reachable in those situations in those
47:52
relationships. Are grief and anxiety related and if so, how may we turned
48:00
grief into a life enhancing experience? Well, they're very much related. And
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I was speaking before to this, you know, this topic, when I
48:12
was talking about my own grieving, my own gap in my life, both
48:20
of my brother's death and the fallout that that caused with parenting. But the
48:25
other side of that is at least for me and many of the patients that
48:31
I've seen as well, and once they're able to stay with that grief,
48:37
work with it and learn from it. Is that it opens up new worlds
48:44
as well. I mean, it's it's like a rip in the fabric of
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the routine and familiar, and that rip opens us to all kinds of unknowns
48:57
and bottomless pits and kind of a free fall that can be very scary.
49:02
But again, the more we can work with it be supported in the process
49:10
of learning and understanding about it. It's like our eyes adjusting to a very
49:16
dark basement. The things that were so threatening and overwhelming before begin to be
49:23
seen as potential, as do potential doorways or opportunities that we didn't see before,
49:34
or areas of interest that we didn't see before. And so in that
49:39
way, grieving, for example, consensitize us to the poignancy of life,
49:45
to the significance of our lives, and lead the preciousness of our lives and
49:52
the whole question of again, what deeply matters about this time and space we
49:59
have. It's really a flash between two voids, and how are we going
50:04
to use that? So grieving can bring our attention to that, recognizing how
50:12
readily we can lose someone who's so close, and of course that we can
50:17
lose ourselves or a part of ourselves, how passing time is and nature is
50:28
also more ethically attuned as well. I really think that life enhancing anxiety is
50:32
a basis, perhaps a renewed basis for a more ethical stance in the world,
50:40
because we recognize our fragility and the need to be sensitive to it and
50:47
supportive of it, as well as our great capacity to be bold and discovered.
50:53
What would you like readers to take away from life enhancing Anxiety, Key
50:59
who was saying world, Well, I'd say, first of all, to
51:05
realize that we have such skyrocketing anxiety in our world, both individually and collectively,
51:14
precisely because we have not We have not really faced the deeper and more
51:22
fundamental anxiety that could help prevent or limit that skyrocketing destructive anxiety that we have
51:30
in the world. So much of that is secondary or violence secondary to the
51:37
anxiety that we really need to address prior to that secondary in the sense that
51:44
that is caused by avoiding confronting the more fundamental anxiety, the fear of the
51:52
primal fear of the unknown, which can be a call to the unknown if
51:58
transformed through supportive understanding relationships. So our physical destructiveness are mental and emotional destructiveness,
52:15
which is also about avoiding many of those earlier anxieties, our devaluations of
52:24
ourselves which cause a lot of anxiety as well again our secondary That's a big
52:35
point that I'm really trying to get through to people here, and so it's
52:39
so important that we, you know, we really reassess and reform the child
52:47
rearing practices so that caretakers are able to be more present to their newborns right
52:59
from beginning to the degree possible to provide that kind of holding environment, but
53:04
some of the psychoanalysts talk about as opposed to an environment where they're emotionally or
53:12
physically absent and leave the kid floundering and as a result forming all kinds of
53:20
defenses against that floundering, which promote illusions of power and control that usually don't
53:29
hold up very well or become very destructive toward themselves or others. A reform
53:37
of child rearing practices, reform of education where we're helping students to cope with
53:45
to tolerate their anxieties more in exploring subjects. I've been a big fan of
53:57
field trips because they are more experiential, they involve people's whole bodily experience as
54:02
opposed to just kind of, you know, narrow intellectual learning, which is
54:13
important. I'm not denying that, but I think holistic experiences in school can
54:19
be very important, such as field trips, plays enactments of great historical events.
54:27
For example, in science, being able to experience and experience the wonder
54:34
of the scientific ideas and practices through experimentation oneself or thought experiments, or watching
54:47
great films and sometimes science fiction can certainly promote that sense of awe and wonder
54:53
about scientific discovery and application. Also involving students involving themselves in those experiential democracy
55:05
dialogues I think could be very valuable to helping them come to terms with their
55:09
own otherness and the other of the other person at they're stereotyping or labeling.
55:20
My guest is doctor Kirk Schneider his book Life Enhancing Anxiety, Key to the
55:25
Sane World. Kirk, one more time, please tell our listeners where they
55:30
can get your book and find out more about you and your work. So
55:34
again, they can readily go to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or the
55:39
publisher University University Professor's Press to obtain the book, or go to my website
55:46
kirkja Schneider dot com and there's all kinds of information about the book and other
55:52
books and videos about my work. Thank you so much for joining us and
56:00
sharing this very important message. Well, thank you so much. Victor really
56:04
appreciated the time and you're listening. Thank you, and thank you for joining
56:08
us on Destination Unlimited. I'm a Victor, the voice Burman of a wonderful week