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Occupy Alcatraz! · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
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  Speaker 1: for tuning in. We are coming to you live from
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  Speaker 1: a kind of rainy, overcast day here in our fair
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  Speaker 1: metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia, and it reminds me of something.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wait, and that's our super producer, mister Max Williams. Hello,
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  Speaker 1: I am here, And that's mister Noel Brown. I to
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  Speaker 1: him here, I'm Ben Bullen. I would say I'm about
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  Speaker 1: eighty percent here, you guys. When I imagine Alcatraz, for
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  Speaker 1: some reason in my head, it's always nighttime and there's
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  Speaker 1: always a storm, even though I know that's not true.
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  Speaker 1: So like a rainy day is a perfect Alcatraz day
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  Speaker 1: for me, absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, San Francisco is obviously a bit
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  Speaker 2: north of the sunshiny, gleaming toaster vibes that is Los
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  Speaker 2: Angeles and southern California, so it definitely has a bit
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  Speaker 2: more of a haste to it. But when you get
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  Speaker 2: out on that harbor, man and you hear the barkings
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  Speaker 2: of the sea lions and the squawkings of the gulls,
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  Speaker 2: and then off in the distance, just out of sight,
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  Speaker 2: hiding behind the fog, you can almost see the erie
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  Speaker 2: outline of Alcatraz Island.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, when we put it that way, it
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  Speaker 1: is exactly like when you discover a ruined castle in
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  Speaker 1: a mountain and skyrim. You know, you get closer, there's
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  Speaker 1: the reveal, and then you get the notification. This for
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  Speaker 1: a lot of us, I think, especially Americans or fans
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  Speaker 1: of film, we're familiar with this strange place via the
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  Speaker 1: world of cinema. As we'll earn, Alcatraz is still very
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  Speaker 1: much a thing around that you could visit. But I
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  Speaker 1: always think of Alcatraz in films like The Birdman of
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  Speaker 1: Alcatraz and of course The Rock.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, The Rock is obviously kind of for
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  Speaker 2: our generation, probably the most flagship Alcatraz film, but it
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  Speaker 2: definitely looms large in cinema history. You've got Escape from
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  Speaker 2: Alcatraz starring Clint Eastwood, which I've actually never seen, nor
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  Speaker 2: have I seen The Birdman of Alcatraz. But The Rock,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it's isn't it Michael Bay. That's a Michael
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  Speaker 2: Bay film.
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  Speaker 1: Right, it has to be.
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  Speaker 2: It has to be, yeah, of course, I mean, you know,
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  Speaker 2: Nicholas cage up to his Shenanigans. This time he's breaking
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  Speaker 2: into an impenetrable prison, as opposed to breaking out with
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  Speaker 2: the help of Shan Kong, who's the only man who's
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  Speaker 2: ever escaped from Alcatrash. He does the good thing, doesn't he.
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  Speaker 2: That's Sean Connery. I'm shot called got okay.
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  Speaker 1: He's he's a retired Captain John Patrick Mason. And because
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  Speaker 1: he refuses to do you know, other accents than his own, uh,
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  Speaker 1: they just said, okay, this guy's also I six that
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  Speaker 1: what a living right.
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  Speaker 2: You're just so iconic on your own steam, just as
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  Speaker 2: as you are in interviews that they don't even ask
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  Speaker 2: you to do a different voice. They don't ask you
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  Speaker 2: to put on a different careacter, whether you're King Richard
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  Speaker 2: in the Bad robin Hood move Watch Out.
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  Speaker 1: The first ten minutes of that are banging.
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  Speaker 2: Completely agree. That also involves an escape from a prison. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: it's only when Kevin Costner starts to speak that things
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  Speaker 2: begin to go a bit south.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you're thinking, what the field the dreams guy?
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  Speaker 1: I don't remember the order in which those movies published,
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  Speaker 1: but there is something It's a bit discursive, but there
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  Speaker 1: is something to be said, I think about that, that
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  Speaker 1: school of acting. It's very common in high level American actors.
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  Speaker 1: They're never not them, right, it's al Pacino is the devil,
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  Speaker 1: it's al Pacino as a football coach. But it's always.
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  Speaker 2: Al that's true. But early al Pacino, like seventies, Like
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  Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about another great prison movie, Dog
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  Speaker 2: Day Afternoon, he does do a bit more character acting,
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  Speaker 2: just once he starts becoming just larger than life al Pacino,
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  Speaker 2: that he just sort of lapses into his like old
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  Speaker 2: man al Pacino phase, which I also enjoys a powerful
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  Speaker 2: performance whatever he does.
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  Speaker 1: He also, Yeah, not far for us to disparage these
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  Speaker 1: icons of American acting in their own way. They're as
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  Speaker 1: iconic as Alcatraz, their own personal alcatraz is. Alcatraz, I
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  Speaker 1: would argue, is more than a place. It's a symbol,
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  Speaker 1: like this ruined castle of some sort. It's impenetrable, or
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  Speaker 1: thought to be. So it represents larger than life prisoners.
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  Speaker 1: You know, your capones, your birdmen, and of course it
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  Speaker 1: represents injustice.
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  Speaker 2: I love the notion of birdmen. There's as many, there's
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  Speaker 2: so many. They come along with every few generations.
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  Speaker 1: There's a flock of them. It's a recessive gene. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the symbolism of Alcatraz is what launched today's story. Just
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  Speaker 1: like a group of boats sailing through the bay under
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  Speaker 1: the cover of night. This is our story that we
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  Speaker 1: discovered in stuff they don't want you to know about.
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  Speaker 1: How not once, but multiple times civilians got together to
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  Speaker 1: invade Alcatraz to break into it, just like those guys
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  Speaker 1: in the Rock.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe not quite as impressive of a heist, but they
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  Speaker 2: definitely landed on Alcatraz right, right, and then decided to
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  Speaker 2: hang around for various reasons.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe to set the stage here, we learn a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more about Alcatraz itself, because it's both the
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  Speaker 1: name of the island and the name of the former prison.
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  Speaker 2: That's right, And I do believe it is still a
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  Speaker 2: tourist destination in San Francisco. I don't think you can
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  Speaker 2: any longer go into the prison, but you can take
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  Speaker 2: a little pleasure cruise and a cruise by, and I
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  Speaker 2: think maybe get off on the island. But when I
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  Speaker 2: was a kid, you could go in. Unless I'm completely
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  Speaker 2: having one of those false memories, I swear I remember
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  Speaker 2: visiting Alcatraz as a kid. One point five miles off
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  Speaker 2: the coast of San Francisco's Bay and of course San Francisco, California,
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  Speaker 2: and taking a little bit of a tour and seeing
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  Speaker 2: some kind of like you know, makeshift cells set up,
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  Speaker 2: you know, like as they were back in the day,
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  Speaker 2: sort of the way you can tour Ellis Island, you know,
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  Speaker 2: in New York City. But I'm hoping that's not a
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  Speaker 2: false memory. I do believe that it is no longer
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  Speaker 2: the case where you can go inside. But the island
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  Speaker 2: comprises twenty two acres of land, only twelve of those
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  Speaker 2: acres would actually be considered usable land.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting because it's such a it's such a
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  Speaker 1: rocky place, right, it's very craggy. We'll get into the
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  Speaker 1: the tours, but just just in case you are a
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  Speaker 1: couple with very specific interest, I learned in the course
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  Speaker 1: of researching Alcatraz that they do let you hold weddings there,
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  Speaker 1: which seems like a very specific choice for a place
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  Speaker 1: to get married.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, it seems like something some history
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  Speaker 2: buffs would do, you know, Like I bet you people
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  Speaker 2: get married at the Alamo from problem. Yeah, so let's
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  Speaker 2: let's get married the site of a historical blood bath
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  Speaker 2: that'd be cool, or a place where many people were
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  Speaker 2: imprisoned and probably died. I bet Alcatraz is haunted a
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  Speaker 2: f ben.
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised. There's definitely for people who believe
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  Speaker 1: even ghosts. There's definitely a deep and troubled emotional record
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  Speaker 1: there right, and deaths as well. But for a while,
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  Speaker 1: Alcatraz didn't have this reputation. For most of history, it
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  Speaker 1: was a home to seabirds more so than humans. And
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  Speaker 1: when Lieutenant won Manuel de Ayala explored it in seventeen
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  Speaker 1: seventy five, the guy looks around, he sees all these
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  Speaker 1: birds on this pile of rocks out in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of San Francisco Bay, and he says, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this the Isle of the Pelicans.
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  Speaker 2: Right. That's because that's about all that was going on,
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  Speaker 2: probably a lot of bird poop on all those rocks.
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  Speaker 2: And by the way, I believe what threw me was
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  Speaker 2: when I was in San Francisco. It's been a minute,
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  Speaker 2: a handful of years ago. Alcatraz Island, the prison part
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  Speaker 2: of it was closed for renovations. Yes, kind of a
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  Speaker 2: funny thing to think about. Let's let's have some renovations
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  Speaker 2: of this prison. But it is maintained by the National
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  Speaker 2: Park Service and as part of the Golden Gate National
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  Speaker 2: Recreation Area, and you can take a tour of the
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  Speaker 2: island accompanied by a helpful audio supplement that you can
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  Speaker 2: listen to while walking through, which I tend to really
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  Speaker 2: enjoy those, Ben I'm not sure about you. Sometimes it's
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  Speaker 2: not the mood that I'm in. I kind of wanted
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  Speaker 2: to experience the thing, but sometimes it's nice to get
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  Speaker 2: a little extra push in your education.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll get to the idea of visiting Alcatraz
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  Speaker 1: at the end. But when you do it, folks, if
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  Speaker 1: you do, we'd love to hear of your ventures. And
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  Speaker 1: we want to be clear you're not going to be
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  Speaker 1: doing the same thing as the heroes or protagonist of
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  Speaker 1: our story today. If we go back to the history,
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  Speaker 1: we see that in eighteen forty nine the island was
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  Speaker 1: officially sold to the US government, and then later they
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  Speaker 1: built actually California's first lighthouse on the island. And as
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  Speaker 1: time went on, Uncle Sam builds other structures on the site,
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  Speaker 1: and in eighteen fifty nine, same year we have the
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  Speaker 1: construction of that lighthouse. We see the first permanent army
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  Speaker 1: pres since garrison there, And we don't know exactly what happened,
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  Speaker 1: but just a few years later the island became a
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  Speaker 1: residence for military offenders. So maybe that first group of
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  Speaker 1: army guys was just partying too hard and they turned
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  Speaker 1: the island to a brig unclear.
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  Speaker 2: I gotta wonder too though, because of its impenetrability, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and the kind of imposing rock structures that surround the island,
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  Speaker 2: I could see how it might seem on paper to
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  Speaker 2: be a good potential spot for like a stronghold. Maybe
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  Speaker 2: they just realized it wasn't quite as strategically valuable as
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  Speaker 2: they may have thought, and that it would be better
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  Speaker 2: served as a place to just, you know, have people
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  Speaker 2: imprisoned where they could never escape, right to jump in here.
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  Speaker 3: It's like, what are you protecting from from that way? Like,
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  Speaker 3: is thisn't like the English Channel where the French are
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  Speaker 3: coming across.
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  Speaker 2: It's like it's really close off of the coast. So
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  Speaker 2: I guess it could be just like a guard post
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  Speaker 2: or something for a little bit of early responding, but
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  Speaker 2: it's too close. It would almost be too late by
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  Speaker 2: that point exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, if there were another adjacent country that was belligerent,
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  Speaker 1: then it would make more sense. But for now, a
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  Speaker 1: lighthouse is a good It was a good function for
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  Speaker 1: it at the time, and so Alcatraz's main function over
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  Speaker 1: time transformed into a penal colony, a prison. Our pals
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  Speaker 1: of Britannica note that they started picking up non military prisoners,
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  Speaker 1: hope Indians from the Arizona Territory who were just peacefully
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  Speaker 1: resisting the government so protesters, nineteen of them get arrested.
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  Speaker 1: And then American soldiers who were fighting in the Philippines
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  Speaker 1: who would switched sides and sided with Filipino forces, they
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  Speaker 1: got put in Alcatraz in nineteen hundred. In nineteen oh
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  Speaker 1: seven they make it official and they say this is
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  Speaker 1: the Pacific branch of the US military prison.
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  Speaker 2: At this point, still just from military offenders right then,
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  Speaker 2: but it would transition to being a federal prison. From
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  Speaker 2: nineteen thirty four to nineteen sixty three, it served as
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  Speaker 2: just that and served as home to some of the
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  Speaker 2: most notorious civilian I guess prisoners in American history, people
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  Speaker 2: like machine Gun Kelly, not that one, not the rapper,
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  Speaker 2: though he maybe should be imprisoned for philographs, humanity just joking,
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  Speaker 2: but don't at me. Machine Gun Kelly. Yeah, I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: He's yeah, he's back to rapping a little bit. He
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  Speaker 2: did go through that kind of emo pop punk phase
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  Speaker 2: or whatever that well, you know whatever. It's good for
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  Speaker 2: people to enjoy things, so far, far be it from
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  Speaker 2: me to yuck. Anyone's yum, but no George machine Gun Kelly,
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  Speaker 2: the notorious gangster Robert Stroud, and of course, the titular
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  Speaker 2: Birdman of Alcatraz, subject of the nineteen sixty two film
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  Speaker 2: of the same name. My Alcatraz cinematic history has got
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  Speaker 2: a lot of blind spots in it, Ben, I don't
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  Speaker 2: know much about the Birdman of Alcatraz. What made him
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  Speaker 2: the Birdman?
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  Speaker 1: The wings mainly?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, so he was one of those guys like he
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  Speaker 2: would climb up like buildings for show, Like, no, he
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  Speaker 2: was half bird okay? Cool? Hey? So he was he
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  Speaker 2: an attorney at law?
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  Speaker 1: He was, yeah, but oddly enough, just real estate, not
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  Speaker 1: bird law. Yeah. So he became known he was a murderer.
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  Speaker 1: He definitely killed. He became known as Birdman because during
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  Speaker 1: his time in Leavenworth he started rearing birds and selling
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  Speaker 1: them and actually made a name for himself as an ornithologist.
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  Speaker 1: Oh and so when he got incarcerated to Alcatraz in
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  Speaker 1: nineteen forty two to nineteen fifty nine and they said, look,
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  Speaker 1: we're not going to allow you to keep birds. So
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  Speaker 1: that part of the story is kind of sad.
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  Speaker 2: So is he is. He portrayed as sort of a
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  Speaker 2: misunderstood gentle giant who loves all God's creatures despite his
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  Speaker 2: checkered past in the film.
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  Speaker 1: I'd have to rewatch the film, but I do know
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  Speaker 1: he was a legitimate published ornithologist, like, he wrote books,
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  Speaker 1: he made contributions to bird research. He earned the title Birdman.
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  Speaker 1: I bet he really would have loved the game Wingspan.
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  Speaker 1: He probably would have. Yeah, he might have had some
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  Speaker 1: notes on it. But the thing that we're saying here
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  Speaker 1: is each of these prisoners are probably their own story,
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  Speaker 1: and maybe we'll revisit some in a future episode. But
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  Speaker 1: this Alcatraz kind of kind of breaks our stereotypes of
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  Speaker 1: a lot of American prisons because it wasn't overpopulated. It
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  Speaker 1: was built to house four hundred and fifty convicts, but
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  Speaker 1: at any one time there were no more than two
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  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty total there, and they part of the
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  Speaker 1: There are a lot of factors for this, but it's
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  Speaker 1: first off, it's already kind of a pain in the
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  Speaker 1: butt to get to and from there, so they put
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  Speaker 1: people there if they wanted to make it very difficult
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  Speaker 1: for them to escape in a lot of situations. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you can get outside the prison walls, but then you
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  Speaker 1: have to survive a mile and a half of San
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  Speaker 1: Francisco Bay water, and that's an entirely different skill set.
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  Speaker 2: There's a really cool little article on the FBI's website
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  Speaker 2: FBI dot gov referring to Alcatraz as the ultimate maximum
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  Speaker 2: security prison. And it was actually known nicknamed the Rock,
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  Speaker 2: you know, like in the movie in nineteen thirty four.
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  Speaker 2: By the way, it was part of this kind of
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  Speaker 2: like new push for a war on crime and kind
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  Speaker 2: of like you know, the idea of like snuffing out
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  Speaker 2: all this organized crime. It was actually refortified at that point,
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  Speaker 2: and like there is a lot of construction that took
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  Speaker 2: place to make it the world's most secure prison.
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  Speaker 1: And what to go back to the idea of trying
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  Speaker 1: to escape a prison which is already tough but doable,
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  Speaker 1: and having to swim or acquire a watercraft.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Because of these factors, we still do not know for
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  Speaker 1: sure how many people successfully escaped or simply drowned in
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  Speaker 1: their attempts, because the bay is big, right, and if
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: someone drowns, it can be really difficult to find their body. So,
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  Speaker 1: like you said, like the FBI said, a top notch
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: mac security lock up. But the same factors that made
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  Speaker 1: Alcatraz such an effective prison also proved to be its undoing.
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  Speaker 1: You had this constant need to transport fresh water to
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  Speaker 1: the island. There's no natural potable water source. You had
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to move waste off of the island. Ultimately, this constant
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  Speaker 1: hassle led the authorities to close Alcatraz and abandon it
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three. And that's we're just giving you
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: high level history here, because there's much more to the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Alcatraz story. But nineteen sixty three, in nineteen sixty four
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  Speaker 1: is where things start to get really really interesting.
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  Speaker 2: Right. You already mentioned the idea of sort of passive,
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  Speaker 2: peaceful protesters from the Hoping Nation being incarcerated there on Alcatraz,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and they and others in the Native American kind of
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: pantheon are the centers largely of our story or at
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  Speaker 2: least the first case of occupying Alcatraz for protest purposes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not for a heist really. But if we
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: look back in these previous decades the context in which
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: this occurs, we see that the US government at the
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: time was in an intense and antagonistic situation with Native
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: American activists. They were absolutely seeking to crush groups like
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  Speaker 1: the American Indian Movement and these various other associated activists
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  Speaker 1: were staging public protests, and they were pushing for basic rights,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of which had honestly been spelled out explicitly
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  Speaker 1: in treaties and then later ignored.
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  Speaker 2: Wouldn't you say, In some ways this is almost like
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  Speaker 2: the equivalent of what the African American community was going
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  Speaker 2: through with the Civil rights movement. Like you obviously had
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  Speaker 2: laws on the books that in theory gave black people,
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  Speaker 2: you know, equal protection under the law and equal rights,
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  Speaker 2: but that just wasn't happening despite it being spelled out
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  Speaker 2: on paper. The same thing was happening with Native American
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  Speaker 2: tribes who were in theory, you know, made a whole
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  Speaker 2: by the government for all the horrible things that you know,
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  Speaker 2: our government did to these people. But then all that
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: stuff didn't really stick, and so you were left with
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  Speaker 2: a situation where protest was absolutely necessary to insist upon
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: being given that equal treatment under law.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, his power given or his power taken is the
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: old way to put it. And we we mentioned this
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: on stuff. They want you to know that parallel to
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  Speaker 1: the civil rights movement is inescapable and to Uncle Sam,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to intelligence and law enforcement of this time, squashing these
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: movements was seen as not a not a dick move,
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  Speaker 1: but a matter of national security. And on the other side,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: we see that the protesters, the activist and increasingly the
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  Speaker 1: public saw this these actions as just one more instance
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  Speaker 1: of the great many sins America had already committed against
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  Speaker 1: Indigenous people. So the prison shuts down, it's nineteen sixty three,
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  Speaker 1: it's abandoned, people aren't using it, people aren't going on
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: you know, park service tours, and Native American community members
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: start lobbying the local government saying, hey, let let's try
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: to redevelop this island as a Indian cultural center and school.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Right and like, in the same way that some of
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: these treaties, most of these treaties were not being honored,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: you know, at least to the spirit of what was
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: agreed upon in a brilliant move I think, kind of
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: highlighting that the Sioux Nation attempted to use an existing treaty,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the Fort Laramie Treaty of eighteen sixty eight, as kind
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: of a way in here saying hey, this is what
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: it says here. Apparently it would allow Native Americans to
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: appropriate surplus federal land. It was just a matter of
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: what was classified as surplus federal land, and obviously that
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: would largely be up to Uncle Sam to determine. But
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: their argument was, it's not being used, it's sitting there derelict.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: It should be up for grabs, and based on the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: letter of this treaty, we were exercising our rights to
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: do this.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, brilliant, actually brilliant peaceful activism. This effort wasn't successful.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: We'll get to why, but it became it transformed Alcatraz
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: now into a symbol of government indifference towards the indigenous.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: So reclaiming this became a huge, unifying rallying cry. This
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: small group, well it was the Sioux were the small group,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and they were able to occupy the island for only
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: four hours, but those four hours utterly galvanized larger movements,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: and there was part of it is because there was
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of publicity, reporters, photographers, legal support showed up.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So the actual party ended up being like forty people.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And they said, look, we're doing this demonstration, we're doing
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: it peacefully, we're doing it in accordance with sue treaty rights.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: And then they did something absolutely love this great ridiculous history.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: They offered the US government a deal. They said, look,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: this is ours, we read the treaty, but we'll solid. Yeah,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: we'll help you out, buddy, because of our long friendship together.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: We'll sell you this island for the price you initially
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: offered our predecessors forty seven cents. Breaker, that's nine dollars
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: and forty cents for the entire island, talked San Francisco
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: real estate books. Right, if we do the inflation calculator bio,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: then we'll see nine dollars and forty cents back then
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: is equal to ninety five dollars and ninety five cents
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: now still yeah, I mean they but the government refused
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: to play ball. They weren't vibing with this, so they
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: threatened everybody with felony charges, and the demonstrators departed peacefully,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: but no one forgot the mission. And they said, oh,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: we did get you know, the federal government to talk
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: with us.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: They noticed us notice us federal government. No, it was
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: absolutely necessary in those days because to your point, Ben,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, the need to squash these I mean, they
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: would look at it as rebellion, you know, but these
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: peaceful protests was fundamentally necessary as far as Uncle Sam
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: was concerned, because they couldn't have these radical ideas spreading
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: to the general population. You know, they had to nip
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: it in the bud, as they would say in the South.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. Wait, is that just the thing people say.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know, that's kind of southern eat. I don't know,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: nip it in the bud. I just feel like it's
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: something you got to kind of say with a Southern accent.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: But maybe they say it in the in the in
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the Midwest.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: It's gonna feel weird to hear. Sean Connery.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I can't I can't even get now doing Verner Herzog.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: You know, Vernon Herzog would have been a good person
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: to make a documentary about Alcatraz. The nihilism of Erner Herzog,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I think is very appropriate for such a stark and
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: foreboding location. All right, here's the pitch.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: We're going to do a documentary about Sean Connery where
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Verner Herzog plays Sean Connery.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Boom, Okay, if the documentary is about Pokemon.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, so it's sort of a meta documentary, like we're
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: doing a documentary about a film that it will never
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: actually be made, just the sort of troubled production of it.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: It will also be a book. Okay, fair.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I think all documentaries are meta documentaries.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: They're kind of you know, and not to get off
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: too off track, but it's a good point, ben, I mean,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: anytime there's a documentary, there is a viewpoint. We've all
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: participated in this kind of stuff, and there is inherently
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: sort of like a little bit of twisty turniness in
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: terms of the way things are presented.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a narrative there, the same way that a
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: disguise is really or a costume is an autobiography of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the person who chose to war it.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Have you seen Werner Herzog as a villain? He plays
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: a villain one time, actually twice, he was in one
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: of those Star Wars series. But the first time I
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: think you ever appeared on screen as a villain He's in.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: It was like a Tom Cruise movie, Jack Reacher. He
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: plays this sinister like like you know, European villain who's
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: been in like gulags or whatever in Siberia, and he
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: had to chew off his own fingers. But he just
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: once again, Verner h and Sean Connery both so magnetic.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: They just kind of play themselves whenever they're Yeah.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: And speaking of cinematic actions, here's here's what happens next.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: A fire destroys San Francisco's American Indian Center in October
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty nine. A few years later, and then
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the activist group is kind of like a supergroup known
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: as Indians of All Tribes, say, let's reevaluate this Alcatraz idea.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: And again a couple of other people have visited with
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: similar similar aims.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Well, and they're certainly like they do. They are serious
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: about using the site as a cultural heritage sense, just
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: like they were the first time. It just happens to
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: also be a great act of kind of civil disobedience.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not theater. They are going to actually use
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the land. And so on November ninth, nineteen sixty nine,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: largely under the leadership of Richard Oakes, a handful of
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: protesters go to the islands again. Authorities remove them the
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: next day, but Oaks is still counting this as a win,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and he tells the San Francisco Chronicle, if a one
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: day occupation by white men on Indian land years ago
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: established squatters' rights, then a one day occupation of Alcatraz
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: should establish Indian rights to the island. So they're continually
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: doing this. Let's play by the same rules, guys, We're
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: playing by the way that you applied your rules.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Right. Hey, all of these moves are so clever because
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: they really just do put in sharp focus like how
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: hypocritical the United States actions have been every step of
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: the way after they gave sort of their half hearted
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: apology for you know, stealing all of the Indians' land
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: and treating them absolutely inhumanly for decades.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And Richard Oakes's statement to the Chronicle would prove prescient,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I think, because just a few days later in the
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Let's get some Let's get some sinister sailing music cover.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the wee.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Hours of November twentieth, nineteen sixty nine. This time The
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: group is returning with an occupation force of eighty nine men, women,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: and children. They sail through the San Francisco Bay under
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: cover of darkness. They land at Alcatraz. They claim the
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: island for all of the tribes of North America. The
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Coast Guard, by the way, is fighting against them. They're
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: trying to create a blockade to prevent these folks from landing.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Fourteen protesters make it through. They begin the occupation. There's
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: one guy at wall.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, this guy, the caretaker, the guard.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: He knows he's outnumbered.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: He says into his radio, mayday, may day, the Indians
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: have landed.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, as much.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: What do you think was gonna Do you think they
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: were gonna like murder him? Yeah?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Who knows what was going through his head?
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Is may day something you say at sea?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Though?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Is not even like kind of a misnomer for him
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: to use may day? Maybe now it might just be
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: a general like I'm in trouble kind of call. But
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I guess I always think of it as like our
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: ship is sinking.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I thought it was aircrafts and ships in distress, But
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: it might just.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Be mayday for a crashing shit airplane too. Certainly mayday. Yeah,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I absolutely have heard that as.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Well, but maybe just a general radio telephonic distress signal. Anyway, Well,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: we know the guy was stressed out, that he was distressed.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: And he made aid, and once the Indians landed, as
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: he so astutely put it, they issued a manifesto addressed
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: in a delightfully pointed manner to the Great White Father
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: and all his people. A little bit of dark in there,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: maybe it's I don't know, what do you think? Then?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, uh, you know, we talked about this
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit. I think he's uh. The concept is,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: we're cheekily referring to Uncle Sam, right, the ID of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: America in that sense, and then.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: The boss of all white people.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: And I guess we shall also stop here to point
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: this out. We've been using the phrase native American or
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: indigenous or Indian, and we're when we're saying Indian there,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: obviously we're not we're not casting any aspersions.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: We're it's the term they were using some of these
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, organizing acts.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's in a lot of the quotations from
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: different sources. So you're you're absolutely right, they've got this
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: somewhat cheeky tone. And here's why we think it's cheeky
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: because in their manifesto they said, look, we're actually, unlike you,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: going to use the land. We'll make a cultural center
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: in Indian school. We're building a museum. Alcatraz is ours
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: by right of discovery. Take that, they said. But hang on, guys, we're.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: They they called DIBs. Basically shot.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they said, hey, we're cool. Though, we're cool, even
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: though this is ours. We'll play your little games and
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: we will pay you for it if you want, We'll
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: give you, quote, twenty four dollars in glass beads and
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: red cloth.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Gotta be red cloth. Red was a that was like
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: one of the more sought after colors, I believe, right,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: because you wasn't I think so. I mean, maybe I'm
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: thinking of purple because there were certain like certain dyes
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: that were more pricey or more rare. But point being,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: they were going with the same kind of line of
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: reasoning as their predecessors, you know, who had attempted this occupation,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: the idea of offering them something insultingly low. Once again
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: to point out the insultingly low offers that the United
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: States have made in an attempt to kind of wipe
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: their conscience clean, you know. But it was always a
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: grift with Uncle Sam. You know, it was capitalizing on
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: inexperience and making negotiations where the playing field was just
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: not even at all. Because this is not people that
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: were coming from a place of commerce or coming from
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: a place of you know, the absolute unchecked capitalism that
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: was the United States and England.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And also twenty four dollars in glass beads and
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: red cloth is according to legends, so the same price
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: that Indian communities were supposedly paid for the island of Manhattan,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: all of.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Manhattan, Yeah, the whole thing, and so long island.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Right, And we've talked about this in the past, but
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: that's just peak trolling, brilliant, amazing stuff. And then the
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: conversation came up, as it would in any occupation or siege,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: how long can these folks hang out? Right, Because, as
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: any student of the really old school war stuff knows,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you cut off the supply chain, right yeah, Castle, yeah,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: blockade too.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: All they had to do is make it past four
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: hours though, and they you know, they had one up
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: on the previous attempt.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when the activists were I wouldn't say, threatened with this,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: but when they were thinking through this, they further trolled
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: in an even more sincere way, and they said, look,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: we don't mind that this island is underdeveloped. We don't
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: care that it lacks potable fresh water, because you see,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: most of us have already endured similar conditions on countless reservations.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Right. No, they're basically saying, come at us, uncle Sam,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: like we've got this, like we were. We can make
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: this work because we're not a bunch of babies, you know.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is sort of a bit of a
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: flex there, you know, and saying, you know, you subjected
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: us to conditions far worse than this, and we will
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: not be swayed by the things that would probably cause
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: you guys to turn tail and run home.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a good point. And the government agreed
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: to negotiate, but were they negotiating in good faith? They
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: immediately rejected all of the proposed demands from the occupiers,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: none of which were super crazy, none of which were
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: bonkers again, a school, cultural center, the return of Alcatraz
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: to American Indians. If anything, it seems that the government
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: was worried about setting a precedent, so the organizers, as
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: were the occupiers. I should say, as soon as they
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: get to the island, they start as self organize. They
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: give everybody a job, everybody votes on major decisions. There's
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a council of guidance and elders, and they set up
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: the school within three weeks. They have the elders teaching
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: traditional arts and crafts, costume decoration, the cultural rituals that
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: define a people.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: And can we also just point out something that we
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: talked a lot about and I've done a whole episode
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: about and stuff that i want you to know. The
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: notion of an Indian school and what they were building
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: here and creating here was in stark contrast to the
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Indian schools that the United States government set up for
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: the very purposes of erasing all of the things that
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: you just described as being taught in this particular situation,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: like it was, you know, to assimilate Native American children
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: and strip them of all of these customs and traditions
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: and you know, dance and music and just culture. Its
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: absolute erasure.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And things were perfect with this occupation,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: the island became increasingly a difficult place to live. As
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: time went on on December fourth, Alcatraz had all their
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: electricity cut, the government disconnected in coming phone calls. They
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: had a water main and they had a fuel line,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: but both were leaking. And then a lot of the
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: occupiers students, students love protesting, so a lot a lot
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: of the yeah, a lot of the the college kids
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: had to go back to school just to keep their
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: scholarships and their loans. And then you started seeing some
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: of the less well intentioned people coming into the.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Game, a bit of an unsavory set, folks that perhaps
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: had criminal records, addiction problems, many who were simply just
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: capitalizing on a scene, you know, a far out happening man.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: You know, like a lot of these hippies who are
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: essentially just looking for somewhere to go and hang out,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: sort of feign actual activism, but really they were more
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: there like they were hanging out in a fish lot,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: you know, and like huffing balloons of nitrous or whatever.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, what you might hear called dreambows sometimes exactly.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: So this again, it's the occupation is imperfect, but it
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: becomes regards it is as a success because the presidential
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: administration at the time, Nixon says, we're gonna bide our time.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: We don't want violent intervention as long as these folks
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: are peaceful, and hopefully they'll just you know, get tired
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and go home. As we mentioned, celebrities were showing their support.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: This became a literal cause celebrity and President Nixon gave
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: a speech saying the time has come for new era
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: in which the Indian future is determined by Indian acts
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: and Indian decisions all at all. Before they left, this
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: group held Alcatraz for nineteen months.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Incredible, more than four hours. This is a feat. Again,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: think about all the impediments, you know, like all of
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: the obstacles. I mean, it's very very, very impressive.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Agreed, and this is where we're going to stop in here,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: because there's much more to the story. We do know
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: it met with. We do know this plan and this
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: peak trolling did lead to serious policy change. The US
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: government returned millions of acres of ancestral land and pasted
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: fifty plus legislative proposals supporting tribal self rule. There's a
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: story a lot of people might not be super familiar
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: with in the modern day, but it's a fundamental part
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: of the struggle for rights and self determination which continues now.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: And I think it's a beautiful thing. But I still
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: knowing that these folks lasted nineteen months. Guess it's astonishing,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: but for me, it's every time they came to them
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: and said, Okay, we'll make a deal with you America.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: You guys like beads.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Who doesn't love beads? So well, it may not have
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: yielded the results that the protesters and the organizers were
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: looking for quickly, it definitely made an impact historically speaking,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: and did sort of set that precedent to a degree
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: you were describing earlier, right, Ben, Yeah.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. And this is again, this is a strange story,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: but it's an important one to remember. If you'd like
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: to learn more about the US government's contentious relationship and
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: conspiracies against some of these activist groups, check out our
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: episode Uncle Sam versus the American Indian Movement. Thanks as
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: always to our super producer mister Max Williams. Thanks to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: our composer Alex Williams, who made this slap and bop.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: H indeed continuously slap. Thanks to Christopherraciotis and Eve's Jeff Coates,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: both here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland the quizzer. You know,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: we spoke to Jonathan the other day in a work
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: capacity and he mentioned that he's really waiting for that
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: call to hop back on the show and quiz us out.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: So I think it's time. I think we shoul to
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: make that happen. But I did inform him that he's
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: never far from our thoughts, at least as far as
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: these outros are concerned, and that a shiny bald head
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: is often mentioned in detail, and he said he had
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: just recently polished it, so we'll see a real shiny
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Stricklan also thanks to aj Bahamas Jacobs of course,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: a huzzler.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he's our own Sean Connery and we hope
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: to see him soon. In the meantime, folks, be well.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Our journey through state by state ridiculous History continues later
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: this week with Nebraska.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.