Latest / Let's Talk with Carl Lee / Legacies and Legends: Honoring Willie Mays and Jerry West

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Legacies and Legends: Honoring Willie Mays and Jerry West · Let's Talk with Carl Lee

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Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. Cry sign. It's mine
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gotta show. Everybody is my sign. Can't you gotta work? Cry Sin
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Another mind from Saga Dogs Day Line, Don't Tell You Gotta Burt. Welcome
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to Let's Talk with Carl Lee, where sports, culture and community intersect.
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Joined Carl and frequent co host Hollis Lewis as they dive into engaging conversations with
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guests from all walks of life. Let's Talk is probably presented by Attorney Frank
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Walker, Real Talk, Real Experience, Real Results, Frank Walker Law dot
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Com. Let the conversation begin on Let's Talk. Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
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This is Car Lee with Let's Talk and my co host Hollis Lewis.
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Shout out to representing sponsor, Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk, Real Experience,
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Real Results, Frank Walkerlaw dot Com. As we dive into different topics
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regarding in most cases, I'm gonna say sports, but sometimes we will step
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outside of those boundaries. Today's show, Hollis and I will be discussing did
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Jay West have the best basketball And I would say almost sports life, right
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because when you look at obviously what he did in high schools I believe a
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all stayed all that. Maybe an All American high school. He was an
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All American at WVU, had a great playing NBA career, was a pretty
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decent coach. He led, I think he coached for three years, led
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the Lakers to a conference championship. And then we know what he did as
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a Zech, not just with the Lakers, but he turned the Mertis Grizzly
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grizz around and he won championships with the Warriors. So did he have the
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greatest sports life maybe of any athlete or is it up there I'm gonna say.
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I'm gonna say, and again, great great point. I think you
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have to look at him being an executive. I think that administrative piece that
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he created, like he built some of the greatest, the showtime the showtime
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greatest. I believe he think of who he drafted, I want to say,
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I believe he either was at the telling of us coaching or the beginning
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of his GM career. He I believe he had a hand or something in
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drafting Magic Johnson. And then he made the trade for a pretty good center
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who was Vonnie d Blocks and got a kid named Kobe Bryant, brought a
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shack In And I want to say I don't think he was there when Lebron
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was at the Lakers or was a beginning at the Lakers. But I think
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when you you talk about just those three players, when you talk about Magic,
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Kobe and Shock, he brought them to l A and won championships and
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and and that's what that what that says about him is he's looking forward.
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He's looking and he can see the potential of those athletes that he's like,
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he's cherry picking that he wants and he's thinking like, how do I how
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do I match these guys up into this situation and created an amazing And what
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I also think it does is that it puts in perspective the totality of his
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greatness as far as being a basketball mind, because not everybody in sports is
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able to make that transition. You can. A lot of guys can't make
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the transition from coaching or excuse me, from playing to coaching, or from
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coaching to being a GM. Right. We see it with Brad Stevenson at
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the Celtics. But I think when you take all he did, he may
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have had one of the greatest sports life ever. And I'm gonna I'm gonna
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because you said that, I want to I want to ask this question.
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Has he got his due here in West Virginia? I think is it?
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Because to me, I think somebody like that there is no space to forget.
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I don't think there's any place to knock anytime there's there. I mean,
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should be a Jerry Wessellward. There should be you know, whether it's
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in college, whether it's at WVU, whether it's in the state. You
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know, like when do we do these kinds of things, like why don't
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we name something after? I mean, and you know I have an award.
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I have a high school award for DB's Yeah, okay, come on,
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Jerry. We you know, like because I know, I was talking
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to some guys here who are WV alum. Then they was talking about,
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you know, at our coliseum here downtown, there's a great art piece.
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It's beautiful, right, it has movement. But one of the things they
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said, they would like to see us like a hot Rod Huntley because he
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was from the area. He played. He was announcement with the Lakers number
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one draft Plick played the WVU, and I think the same thing probably be
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said for Jerry West. I believe he does have a statue in Morgantown.
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I think, I think, but I think maybe you should have something in
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Kanac County, seeing that he's from here. Well, I think see,
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I think the problem that I have with our celebration of them. Okay,
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so it could be at WV, but if you never go to WV,
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you know in Morgantown, you you'll never see it. My thing is,
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let's let's bring it somewhere to where everybody's got a chance to see it.
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Why do we because we don't. I just and I've said this about the
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media, and and and I'm not I don't. I don't want to come
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off as if I'm bashing the media, but I just don't know. If
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we do a good job with our great athletes in celebrating them, well,
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I think I think that would be more. I don't know if that's I
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think the media they do the write ups, they do what they do,
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But I think that might be on some you know, local governments, administrators,
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business people and different people like that to actually, you know, say
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hey, we're gonna fund you know, this statue, Walk of Fame.
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We're gonna do something. But I'm even saying let's do we even talk do
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we do we even talk about them? Like do we say like like,
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where's the conversation? I don't. I could be fine with Jerry westbying in
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every Canaull County school, every Putnam County school. So you see what I'm
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saying, like, because every kid has a dream and you have to see
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I can. I can tell you for for me, not even nowhere remotely
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close to Jerry Weston, his his his notoriety or what it should be for
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a kid like me who's looking for a dream, looking for somebody to pat
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myself after, because I want to be something. I want to be something
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in sports. I had a chance to have Robert Alexander because he was right
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in front of me. My sisters braided his hair back in the day,
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right, But if I was, if I didn't have that contact with him,
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he goes to the pros and the only thing you're going to hear about
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him is some of the negative stuff, you know, and not not the
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not the fact that he's there. There's no negative being in the league.
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There's no negative being in the league if you're playing. And I just think
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that we find that we find ways to to bring our athletes down. But
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I wouldn't say that's fair. I don't think anybody's bringing Jerry West down.
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I know, I don't think. I don't think it's I just don't he's
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celebrated. I mean, I don't think you know what, I would say,
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he's celebrated, he's not commemorated. I'll say that, like I said,
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And I think that you know, us being the capital city, maybe
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there is something we could do about, you know, getting a statue up
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to say, hey, this is the guy who not only was great when
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he was local, not only a great player, was this great executive?
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Was this just great basketball mind in person? And I think and I want
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to and I don't want to jump off this yet until we made make sure
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that we're kind of right there in the same thing. I I'm a guy
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who's looking for somebody to to be that star, like somebody who I can
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patent myself to be right. You know, as an athlete, you're growing
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up, you're trying to figure that out. Our kids need stories, they
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need you mean local local, Yeah, like anywhere in any community, if
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there's a local athlete, if there has been a local athlete that has been
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successful. I don't care if he or she played college ball and but was
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really good in college ball. Celebrate that because because these young kids now,
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man and you and you know this, these young kids now that are participating
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in sports, there's a host of them who have no idea where that sport
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could take them. They're just and and they don't know. And I think
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to your point specifically talking about a Jerry w u s when you talk about
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where a sport can take you, you know, not only like I said,
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and we've talked about his accolades as a player, and his accolades is
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an exec but just being the giant, being the architect of all this great
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basketball that we all love. Sports can take you from with Cavin Creek or
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wherever he's from, you know, East Bank, all the way to you
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know La at the top of the mountains. So could there be any further
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trip, further trip? That's right? And well, And speaking the ball,
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you know, we had to we had the fever in the sky this
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weekend. So that was Aelrees versus Kaitlin Clark, if you want to put
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it like that, and I the other way to put it. It was
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a couple ways to put it. But first of all excellent game. It
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was a great game. You could feel the intensity of it. And I
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just want to like juxtapost that with the NBA Finals. So I watched probably
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about three or four games of the NBA Finals, Game seven. I'm watching
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the NBA Finals, bro, and it's literally like just the best players in
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the world running upen gym. I mean when I tell you, like,
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it was just guys running up and down, running up and down. And
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it further solidified my point to say at this juncture this year, I don't
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know if it'll go further. I don't know. Maybe it's the last year
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of it. I don't know. But right now, as we stay in,
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women's basketball is a superior sport to men's basketball because of just the grit,
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the care. I mean, watching that game with you know, the
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sky versus the fever was like watching a championship game. It's physical. It's
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physical, which you would like to think that would be. But why did
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we take the physicality? Let me ask you this. You know, you
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being from the area that you you probably maybe played I'm not gonna say in
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the most physical area, but what I will say about your ara in the
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time that you played pro football. You played in the era where guys were
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starting to take their physical health a lot more seriously, working out, like
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training hard. They were full time professional athletes. These weren't guys who had
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like other things on the side or you know, doing other occupations during the
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off season in conjunction with it being on TV and defense still being prominent,
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where like you, guys were really banging at each other. So when you're
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seeing sports like the NBA or men's college basketball and there's just a lack of
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physicality, like, is that like a turnoff for you to watch? What
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it does? It just looks it just looks different when and when you start
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talking about whether it be basketball. I played basketball, but again it wasn't
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great. But but I know, just talking we get the sport. I'm
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just saying the physicality of the contact sports. The physicality I think I think
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that has no one knowing because of the safety issues that you know, I
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think everybody's that the leagues are are concerned about. I think they can let
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the players get away with not bumping a guy not okay, And I understand
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that in football, So we can pick football to the side, but basketball,
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but with the basketball we grew up in seventies, eighties, nineties.
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I'm not just physical sport. But I'm not justifying football. I'm just saying
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that I think that everybody wants to make that money and I don't want to
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get hurt, you know, so if I can just tiptoe around and get
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somebody down and no, but is it better for the game. No,
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it is not. It's not better to watch. It's not. And what
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I'm saying to go back to the fever versus guy, when I'm watching Angel
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Reese, who is totally physical. She's down there grabbing boards, she's pitting
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the back up, she's hitting the deck, she's diving for loose balls,
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knocking people. Even Kaitlin Cark, even Keln Carr. She's taking bumps,
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she's she's getting around screens, she's throwing up three pointers making them. I
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mean, it just looks great watching to me what I consider that's real who
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that's real basketball. They because they're going at it, that's what behind them.
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But I just don't understand why the men ain't just watch because you know
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what, one, I know, you're great, you know I'm great.
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We don't necessarily have to do anything to each other. We get it you're
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making deals. Yeah, you shoot your three, I shoot my three.
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You dunk, I dunk, and and hey when we come out and we
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both still great and we've seen it, like for example, again, if
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you watch NBA Finals defense, if you're not playing defense, you ain't gonna
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win. I mean, they're literally and I'm listening to sports watch sports and
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everything like that, and they're literally talking about trading Kevin Durant. Again,
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this guy's supposed to be in his air. The greatest score of his are
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the greatest offensive threats. He's played on ten different teams and as and the
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justification is which is right? Which is right? Is that you got three
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scores on that team, the Phoenix Suns. But ain't nobody playing defense?
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And it's like when are we gonna like go back to that, like that
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real ball, because it's a better ball almost in the park, but they
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can jump in, but they can justify it because of the safety issues.
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But come on, do we have safety issues in basketball? Nobody nobody wants,
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nobody can afford to get hurt. Okay, you know what I'm saying.
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I think that nobody, no team, no owner, nobody wants to
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get it. Michael Jordan. Back in those days, people are knocking him
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around, binged up and he would have to suck it up and keep playing
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and go back and lift weights. And he forgot absolutely. But then and
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then as time has gone on, people are saying, well, that kind
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of player we don't want, we don't want that kind of contact happening,
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because he's the game, he's the money of the game. He's bringing in
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all the people who are sitting in the seats. But I would say it
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again, I agree with you on one hand, but on the other hand,
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I would say that if we don't Again, I'm not saying we got
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to go back to the babb Piston ere I'm not suggesting that, but I'm
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saying we gotta fire a happy medium because what I think is gonna end up
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having because the basketball is literally almost unwatchable at a men's professional level. It's
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because again, when I'm watching the NBA Finals, it was five maybe two
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three, and I'm talking game time minutes stints were these guys were just running
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up and down the court shooting. There was one stint like probably three to
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four minutes in game time. Nobody was even scoring the basketball because they were
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just breaking shots and ain't nobody playing defense. And then you go watch the
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women play the w n b A and they're going hard in the paint.
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They're pushing, fouling, talking crap, doing all types of stuff that we
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love and hate. The jump in there. Here's what they like. They
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like that one or two guys who played defense, and they celebrate them,
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right, they give them the Defensive Player of the Year. And so they
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do that with those kind of guys, those kind of guys who decide they
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want to be that they're gonna make their money and everybody else is fine,
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I don't. You're the defensive guy on our team, and so you know,
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you got a Defensive Player of the Year ward. You can have that.
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That ain't gonna I don't know if that's gonna get you paid, but
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you can have it. I want to be the offensive guy and scoring points,
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because you know what them points is gonna do for me by they gonna
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get me money. But I'm just saying, but it ain't gonna get you
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rid. And we've seen that with Luke Luka Donna's. We seen that with
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Luka Donna's from the Dallas Mavericks. I mean it was almost embarrassing the amount
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of defense he was playing because he just wasn't playing. I think in the
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last game or two he kind of tightened it up. But and we've seen
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that defense is gonna win your championships. Defense is eventually gonna win. It
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always has and it always will. Yeah, no matter what, I want
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to say. One more thing, because I you know, I had made
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a note of this earlier today that when West was at the Lakers they won.
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They had a thirty nine game win streak or sixty I'm sorry, sixty
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nine win streak. That's over two seasons. It had to be two seasons,
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yeah, and and thirty three Okay, Well, I shoot, I
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forgot how to how how I how I stated that, Hollis Now I'm messing
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myself up. But it was they won sixty three? Yeah they had They
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had a sixty nine game win streak. Okay, how was that? Or
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it had sixty nine wins and thirty and thirty three straight wins? Okay,
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yeah, thirty three wins in a row. Yeah, I saw that.
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Actually thirty thirty three wins in a row in professional sports. I could even
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make the case is that if that's high school, I'm that's that's that's unbelievable.
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Yeah, college, unbelievable, professional impossible. Yeah, you know what,
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I think what happens in it seems to happen. I think we're just
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talking about American sports, particularly like in football and basketball, we tend to
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like move on from eras very quickly and forget eras. I think the I
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think that where we're at now is that people are holding on to the Michael
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Jordan era, So that's being really held tightly and it's actually going into two
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or three different eras of basketball now. And I think outside of the Michael
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Jordan era, just specifically in basketball, we tend to not look at those
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guys that played in the in the in the olden eras equally, right.
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I heard like the new coach of the J. J. Reddick, new
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coach of the Lakers, he called Bob Coosey like he's like he tried to
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detegrate his greatness because of the era that he played in. We do that
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in football. We we don't do that so much as we mentioned in baseball,
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right, right, So I think that's what happens, and we tend
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to forget about that sometimes. I think, you know, when you start
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when you start going back to like, let's say, go back to John
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to Joe Montana. Right, so you go back to Joe Montana and you
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look and you try to say, okay, how would he how would he
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fit today's game? I'm saying his stats would be triple to what they were
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then. See, I don't even like to look at it like that.
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But think about it. You know, you're talking about throwing fifteen, maybe
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twenty times a game, where now you're throwing thirty forty times a game on
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a regular basis. Imagine him and Rice and Taylor and Taylor and even you
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could almost take any team, but even with Roger Craig in the backfield throwing
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swing passes. See, I don't like to look at it. I just
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like it. I think you just gotta, you know, just look at
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him in the errors that they played in and appreciate the greatness and what was
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going on then. But you know what I mean. But when you start
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to but see, for me, if I if I'm going to try to
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compare, right, for me as a player, if I'm going to compare,
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I try to take and look at it and say, okay, Joe
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Montana, all of those great quarterbacks back in the day. Yeah, with
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the numbers that they have, and people have broken some of those records now,
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but they've thrown the ball a thousand times a wire. But I think
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you get into stuff when you start trying to do that. You get into
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these like illusionary arguments like that. There's no way to ever really compare,
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right, But what I can say is this, I can say this.
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I can say, could have Brady? Could he have played in the era
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where he had to stay in the pocket, go from under center and take
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massive hits and still deliver the ball accurately? I think you can sort of
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say that, could Mark, could Montana? Could he have been been being
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a shotgun which he didn't like to be in a shotgun and thrown fifty times
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a game? Would would he have would would the stats have been double?
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Or would he have thrown double triple interceptions? You see what I'm saying.
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So I think that, like I said, it's no way to necessarily compare
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that, So you gotta just appreciate it with what they did in their era.
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Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna agree with you, but I'm gonna say
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I think Damn Marino would struggle more than Montana because because he was under Because
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he was under center, most quarterbacks were under center most of the time unless
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it's third down they go to shotgun. But but but Marino was a three
21:40
step drop kind of guy. So yeah, but he threw the ball,
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was coming out super quick. Okay, So so so maybe maybe for him
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because those routes aren't all the time available now I could see. I think
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Montana could. I'm not sure if Marino. Okay, yeah, I don't
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And like I said, I don't know. Yeah, Yeah, we're just
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we're bouncing around on that though. But you said you had something for me?
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What did you you you got something for me? Well, here's here's
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what I'll say. And we've talked about on this show. If you followed
22:15
us for the last several months. We talked about sports and sort of the
22:21
maybe the de evolution of parents involvement in sports, that parents are taking a
22:27
lead role and you know, from Little League on up, they want their
22:32
voices to be heard. There was a story with Marshawn Lynch. He's at
22:34
a he's hosting a football camp or something, and some some moms are yelling
22:41
at him for yelling at the kids, right, and now you know,
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tonight's the NBA Draft and we got probably the biggest story is Bronnie James,
22:51
who is Lebron James's eldest son, who's enter the NBA Draft. Expected to
22:56
get picked in the NBA Draft, maybe pop pssibly a first, a first
23:02
round late, or probably in the second round. Now, Lebron James's son,
23:07
Bronnie James, he averaged about four points at USC shot by thirty percent
23:14
from I think less than thirty percent from the line. So and many many
23:19
pundits who aren't, you know, Lebron James, the policies who aren't trying
23:22
to suck up to Lebron James and everything he has going on, are simply
23:26
saying, man, there's no way this kid should get drafted. I mean,
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I could probably say there's probably a kid a state who would be better
23:32
than this athletically and shown more. Right, So, is this the biggest
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example on a national stage that we're seeing of daddy ball? Is this from
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everything we've talked about? Is this the combination of what it's going to be.
23:49
What is interesting is the term that you're using daddy ball, because I
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mean, I make the case this is probably the epenomy if you go to
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if there's such a thing as daddy ball, Okay, this is it,
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This would be it. This would have to be it, because you're putting
24:10
you're putting yourself, you're putting yourself and your son in a position to dictate
24:18
the NBA draft. NBA Draft, they're going two nights because of this.
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Essentially you we all know the NBA was really it's about the first ten picks
24:27
and then everything and everything else. Now they're actually going two nights to make
24:32
sure they don't miss Brownie James getting picked. And again I don't, well,
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let me just say this, go ahead. What's crazy? Why?
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Why why is it so sure that he's gonna go to the Lakers. How
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is it that everybody else is supposed supposedly going to pass him up? Is
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that because he really ain't he really ain't, that he's not qualified, or
24:56
there's just a there's a daddy ball set up that where nobody with day draft.
25:00
I'm not necessary. I don't know if he's going to the Lakers.
25:03
Again, I'm not gonna make that claim, but what I will say,
25:06
there's any way he goes anywhere. But to your point, that's probably correct.
25:11
Consider I mean every the stats I just mentioned. I mean, you
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average like four points in college, you stayed there one year, and again
25:17
he had the hard issue. We all get that. But even if you
25:18
look at it athletically, he's barely six to one. He doesn't have an
25:22
elite athletics and he's a good athlete, but not an elite athlete, right
25:27
And and the thing I don't like about this is just that he takes the
25:32
spot from another kid. It's another kid out there, whether that kids in
25:36
college or coming from overseas or in the G League. And if you actually
25:40
get on the NBA roster, I mean, what is that? What does
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that say about Again? I don't necessarily even have a problem with nepotism,
25:47
but man, go to the G League. Start from the bottom, dude,
25:49
Why how do you just get the spot? And I think I think
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he I think he rightfully so he should. He belongs, he belongs,
26:00
and he doesn't. He doesn't belong in the NBA. He doesn't belong there.
26:06
Everything that I've read about him is an offense. Okay, so he's
26:11
a defensive player. Somebody six to five. How you covering a six y
26:15
five dude, I don't how that's what I'm saying. You're six to one
26:18
in the NBA that this ain't back in the day, or no, this
26:22
ain't like the small guard era? What what position? What position is he
26:26
even playing? Like? I mean you would have to play point or to
26:27
to guard one where he can't go to Lakers because Lebron point. I mean
26:33
maybe maybe you might move over. Oh well, I'm sure he would,
26:38
he would give that up to him, but I don't think he can help.
26:41
Let me ask you a different question. So, and I think we're
26:45
probably in agreement about that. But what because you've talked about you know,
26:49
role models and kind of starting from up and how that always works its way
26:53
down into sports, how do you think something like this is going to have
27:00
a lasting impact on sports? So are we going to see like other NBA
27:04
dad's kind of forced their force their hand or or play their cards, or
27:08
you know, work their angles to get their sons in and leave other kids
27:12
out. Do you think like this is going to be the mold for high
27:17
schools to say, hey, you got my oldest son. He's starting,
27:19
but if you don't treat him right, then my youngest son ain't coming on
27:22
right or if you want my oldest son, then my youngest son got or
27:26
daughter or whatever. Do you think it has this effect? I think I
27:29
think we are witnessing right now the change in the NBA when it comes to
27:40
father sons. I think, what's your thought? Wealth in there too,
27:44
and wealth And I think on top of that, I think it's not only
27:48
just going to be basketball, but it's going to be football. It's gonna
27:51
be every sport that that that's a quote a team sport and you have that
27:56
Lebron James dad on top how you I don't think it works in football.
28:03
I don't think it works in I don't think it works in baseball, but
28:08
they're gonna try because what they like. For example, God was listening to
28:12
a guy online and what he said is like basketball is not like you know,
28:18
a trench baby is the word that he used, sport anymore. If
28:19
you look at like the A team U USA basketball, it's all it's filled
28:25
with all former NBA player sons on the on the team. You know what
28:27
I'm saying. Because basketball and you're competing nationally now, it costs a lot
28:33
of money to do that AU stuff and traveling all that stuff. So in
28:37
order to get that look, in order to compete against the best, you
28:41
gotta have a little money, and you might even have to have a little
28:44
status. All right, we're gonna take a quick break here, and but
28:45
when I come back, I want to I want to. I want to
28:48
talk to you about the AAU circuit and how beneficial is it? How beneficial
28:53
do you think it is? We'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen.
28:56
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Now back through the conversation. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're we're
30:00
back and again want to give a shout out to representing sponsor, Attorney Frank
30:04
Walker, Real Talk, Real experience, Real results, Frank Walker Law dot
30:10
com. So, Hollis, how where where does this go? Where does
30:19
this situation with Daddy Ball? Where does it go? I don't know.
30:27
It's I don't know, man, I don't know because I think you said
30:32
earlier on going out, like the fear is right is everybody who has a
30:37
kid is going to think their kid is good enough? Yeah? Well,
30:41
I think what happens to is that, particularly like if you have somebody of
30:47
a status that's going to weigh heavy. I think that we've already seen it
30:51
manifest in like au and travel sports, where you know, for example,
30:55
West Virginia used to be a state with like one or two maybe three teams
30:57
as far as like AU is concerned, gonna ask about that. Now there's
31:00
a plethora of there's so many teams you can't even count because hey, if
31:04
my kids not playing, I'll just go pull them and start my own team.
31:08
And so it can water day things down and it puts you in a
31:15
position maybe far as a kid is concerned, where you're not earning it is
31:18
there some false reality and in AAU sports and travel sports of winning like some
31:26
you know, a lot of these teams will say, oh, we went
31:29
somewhere and we won a national championship. Well, a national championship means every
31:33
team that's available. There's no way you were in that situation because all these
31:40
teams are not playing in all these different leagues. Am I right? I
31:42
mean, I think you're right to a degree. In my view on like
31:45
travel sports a US, it's a little bit conflicted. And hopefully you can
31:51
get my guy on Jonathan Fraser, he's actually gonna they're opening up a new
31:56
charter school in Huntington. It's going to be a sports base, academic based
32:00
sort of school. You're gonna focus heavy on athletics and academics. But sort
32:06
of talking to him, and you know, I guess you could look at
32:08
it one or two ways. On one hand, if your son or your
32:14
daughter is an elite athlete at whatever particular sport and they're not you're not finding
32:20
capable coaches, capable trainers, that's one thing. So maybe you might have
32:24
to go nationally to figure that out. May have to travel, and we've
32:29
seen them, like gymnastics, they'll they'll go to Columbus, they'll they'll go
32:32
two three hours just to practice and be a part of what particular club.
32:37
And then on the other hand, again, if your kid is that elite
32:39
athlete, basketball player, whatever, and they're not finding the right competition,
32:45
so that means they're dominating their local community or state or whatever, then those
32:51
AU tournaments might be useful in order to you know, round out the competition
32:55
so they can see exactly how they measure against other kids. And I will
33:00
say, and finally I'll let you go. Basketball, similar to soccer and
33:05
baseball, are moving to a national style, so you have to almost figure
33:09
out where you're nationally ranked to and that will help you project where you're going
33:16
far as college and professional level. Okay, I'm gonna I'm going to challenge
33:21
a couple of things there, and I'm really curious to see what you say.
33:28
One, I'm not sure if if AU ranking ranks, A can't rank
33:38
every team in the country because they can't see every team in the country and
33:43
you play your different circuits, you know. So, so I don't see.
33:49
I don't I don't buy. I don't buy that you have to AU
33:53
is the only way to be successful. I make the case I didn't say
33:58
only one. Well, that is it depends on the situation. And and
34:01
okay, so I know Robert Alexander didn't do any of that kind of but
34:06
that's back in the day. You can't compare that. I don't Why do
34:08
you say that you can because I can say Randy Moss did a you Randy
34:13
Randy Moss Rain they played a you, they played football, bascues me basketball,
34:19
and they were champions football. But that was his day. But but
34:23
I'm what I'm saying, though, is that he didn't need that there there
34:27
after after fourteen, there is no well, I can't say that there after
34:31
fourteen, there is no travel ball. However, there're seven on seven and
34:36
their national seven on sevent teams. Dwayne Harris played on a national seven or
34:39
seven. So like it does show and prove he can show skill set because
34:45
here's because here's where, and I'll let you go. And I'm sorry to
34:46
overtalk you, but what they said was what they What they said is that
34:52
here's how it goes. And this is what I heard from some coaches.
34:54
The coach will come see you. So whatever college you you're thinking about going
34:58
to, your you any your sawomore, your junior year, they'll come visits
35:01
you there. They'll figure out, hey, we liked what we saw.
35:05
Maybe they don't offer you. They you know how you get the little in
35:07
school visits, yep, and then in the summer you go to these camps.
35:13
You go to these seven or sevens. You run, you do your
35:15
skill work, you do your lyft, do all that stuff. And that
35:17
way, maybe if the coach didn't offer you during the first visit, when
35:22
he comes and see you at these national camps, now they can get a
35:24
validation. Oh this kid is working hard. Look he's got faster, he's
35:28
stronger, his skill sets improved, and now we're offering them. So a
35:30
lot of these camps are validations to say, hey, what I thought you
35:35
were is what you are or you work towards. So I'm starting to see
35:39
there is some usefulness in the camps and may rankings again may not be all
35:45
that, may not be maybe a farce, right, But the scary thing
35:50
to me in that is, okay, so like basketball, you got you
35:54
got, you got five starters. Yeah, okay, so you gotta you
35:59
gotta stand down of all those five right where in football it's an individual position
36:07
and they specifically watch your things. So I'm more mindset in that area.
36:14
So I know that when a scout's gonna come to see me at high school,
36:17
I know I gotta run, I know what I gotta do, those
36:21
kind of things. And but that's that's gonna be just me. Now in
36:27
practice, what he's gonna see. He's gonna watch me tackle, you know
36:30
when you know, when you have tackle drills, whatever you scrimmage in or
36:31
whatever, he's gonna watch all those kind of things. Wa'ts how you practice
36:36
it, Wat's how you practice too. Basketball again is one of those kind
36:39
of things. I still see basketball and that could be dead wrong. So
36:43
I'm just I'm putting this out there making the case that I could be wrong
36:45
in it. It's still based on an individual thing. So whether you're playing
36:51
at your high school or you're playing in an AU situation, your game is
36:55
still gonna be your game. Nah. I see, I disagree with that
36:59
because I mean, you're playing against inferior competition. What if you get beat
37:04
that? What if your team is not capable enough to beat that team?
37:07
So your team beats me? But what I'm saying, and you beat me
37:09
bad? Okay, so I got a kid on that team. But what
37:14
I'm saying is this. If you're a point guard, let's just say,
37:16
let's shay, you're the point guard and you're playing at a national AU turnament
37:22
and you're playing against a far superior team. If I'm a point guard,
37:24
if I'm a coach, I'm needing a point guard. I'm watching that point
37:27
I'm interested in that point guard. Even though his team is getting beat,
37:30
I can still see how he performs against that upper level competition. Is he
37:34
getting the ball off? Is he able to drive to the hoop? Is
37:37
he able to create his old shot? Even if they aren't necessarily all going
37:39
in and like I said, that team is better, you can still see
37:43
those little nuances and how he's performing, how he or she is performing against
37:46
top level competition. And I think now whether we like it or not,
37:52
man, the game is moving even beyond the state, it's moving national.
37:57
And I think that's the way sports are gonna go. And I think with
37:59
the avent of not avent, but with the rollout of charter schools throughout,
38:04
you know, multiple states in America, it's going to move to sort of
38:07
a national competing circuits and what and maybe your circuit is depending on how well
38:14
you did and you move up, move down, has your has has sports?
38:17
You know. One of the terms that I don't hear a lot student
38:22
athlete because it's not that no more. You know, and and and with
38:28
the outside sports from the school, right so au travel all of that that
38:35
stuff's outside of the school. I have the ability to be a one to
38:43
nine student being eligible and football, basketball, baseball in my school and still
38:47
be able to do these kinds of sports. But it won't, it doesn't,
38:53
it won't. It won't benefit because I still need the academics. And
38:57
I think that I think that's it. I think that's an important peace because
39:01
I think we still have to focus on the student athlete. And I get
39:04
that the that the star student athlete is bringing money into the school. It's
39:08
benefiting the school, it's benefiting the community, it's benefiting everybody that's on that
39:13
team. But I think I think we still have to And I'm not saying
39:17
that we're I'm going to say we don't promote student athlete, not saying it's
39:22
not there, but we don't promote how relevant it's so fast it is a
39:28
farce. You can't say I'm a student athlete. But you got guys making
39:30
hundreds of thousands of million dollars like at eighteen when they go to college.
39:35
And the fact of the matter is what I don't like about those conversations.
39:37
Why aren't we looking at sports as a vocation, just like the guy or
39:42
the or the or the girl who would go to you know, a Ben
39:45
Franklin or Carver or a technical school in high school in order to get those
39:50
credits to be electrician, plumber or whatever, or they're going to be a
39:52
nurser or LPN. Why aren't we looking at sports as a vocation. And
39:55
I'm saying here they're scared, But what I'm saying is that that's where it's
40:00
at now. When we look at things like the IMG Academy of Florida.
40:04
That's a vocation school for sports. When we look at what when my god
40:07
Jonathan First is gonna was trying to do in Huntington, open up that school,
40:10
I forget the name of it. That's a vocation institution for sports.
40:15
So I think it's fine that we say, Okay, you're gonna focus on
40:20
sports over here. Yeah, you're gonna you gotta get your academics. We're
40:22
gonna make sure all that's tight, but you're gonna be practicing two or three
40:24
times a day to be the best you can be at this particular thing,
40:29
just like if you were, you know, doing anything else, just like
40:31
if it was a robotics school or mad school or performing arts school with a
40:36
focus. Yeah, we're gonna make sure you get your English science and all
40:37
that right, but you're gonna learn to sing, dance and play your instrument.
40:42
Could you would you be willing to go to that school if you if
40:49
you were coming out, would that be something that you would be interested in
40:52
a hundred percent? Because I tell people this all the time. I was
40:54
arguing with a guy online the other day. I did for academically. I
40:59
did way better in college in law school than I did in high school,
41:05
I was a far superior student just because, like I said, when I
41:08
got to college, I was with you, used my coach. It was
41:12
structured. We had to do this, do to this, to this,
41:14
and somehow that structure that we got to get up for me, we gotta
41:17
do this, we gotta built da da da da da da da da.
41:20
Somehow that structure carried over into the classroom and I and I and I and
41:24
because it was more rigid than what a high school is, and in college
41:28
the structure is different. When you're not tasked with a busy work. It's
41:30
more of a learning endeavor. Right where I'm not, I'm learning about things
41:35
I'm interested in. It all carried over and it all melted into me.
41:38
By the times I got to my second and third year in college, I
41:42
was a really really, really good student. So I would definitely want to
41:45
be in a situation. And I think the younger that you can get those
41:49
kids in those types of situations, because what these schools are saying, they're
41:52
not saying like, well, it's act or it's you go pro or die.
41:55
They're saying, we're gonna make sure we focus on that and to build
42:00
you up a pathway in order to be successful in anything else you want to
42:04
do. What's what's interesting to me is, you know, when we start
42:08
talking about who's the issue in sports high school, it's definitely parents, going
42:15
back to the Brady James. So when we go back and we try to
42:19
say, okay, well who's the issue, we find it being the parent,
42:23
right because the kids don't necessarily know the parents kind of make the judgment
42:28
of how good their kid is, and da da da da dad and all
42:30
that kind of stuff in that kind of a situation, and that kind of
42:35
a structure that would take the parent. To me, that would take the
42:42
parent out of the mix. So now it's you as a coach, you
42:45
as a school who is creating this structure for me. Because I think when
42:52
parents think that they're creating a structure, I don't know if they know that's
42:59
their thing. I don't think that they know that they're doing what they're actually
43:02
creating. I don't think most parents want to create a structure. They just
43:06
want to dictate the structure. They want to say this is what you should
43:09
do, you should do for my kid, for my kid. They don't
43:13
necessarily want to create that on day to day because they may not know or
43:15
they may not have the time, but they want to dictate the structure.
43:19
So I think if you have a vocational school, that again is no different
43:22
from a performing in our school, no different than a math science STEM school
43:27
or a body school. It's no different than any of that. And as
43:30
structures created, we're saying, we're going to make sure that we focus not
43:34
only are you just running games. We're going to make sure we're getting nutrition
43:37
right. We're going to make sure we're doing you know, strength and speed
43:43
training that's right for you, and we're going to make sure that your skill
43:45
level is proficient and superior in this particular thing that you're focusing on. Because
43:51
here's the thing. And even if you have a kid that just wants to
43:53
go to college, doesn't necessarily want to be a professional athlete, if I
43:57
can send my sk kid to a school like that from middle school to high
44:00
school and have them train and be ready, and then they can go ahead
44:02
and get a college scholarship, man that paid for itself as expensive as college
44:08
is right now, and and and that point right there, if you just
44:15
if you use a sport to get a college scholarship, I don't care if
44:19
it's a partial if you can get college financial help through athletics, are you
44:25
kidding me? Yeah? So, But but I think it's gonna I think,
44:29
like I said, it's just kind of going back to the conversation.
44:31
I think that we're gonna have I think we're moving to a national model.
44:37
I think, you know, schools are going to have to start to think
44:39
bigger about not just being their community, go to start state and region,
44:44
nation. And you know, when we look at situations like Bronnie James and
44:49
lebron James, to me, this isn't helping Bronnie James because would it be
44:52
better for him to uh fight for it and have to grind for it and
44:58
maybe go through another year college and really go through the mud and not getting
45:00
drafted and really have to fight to come up, or it's gonna be good
45:04
for him just to get draft. What's the what is the rush? Yeah?
45:07
What's the rush? And again it just goes back to what we were
45:12
saying, is like parents getting out of the way of it. So and
45:15
I don't, like I said, I don't know if this is good.
45:16
And I think that we're gonna have to create a system for parents just to
45:20
get out the way, right. So I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask this
45:22
crazy question to you. Okay, Lebron's had like four coaches, four head
45:29
coach for the Lakers. Yeah, that's what I'm saying for the Lakers.
45:31
So, so you're gonna get a new coach every other year? Yes,
45:35
So isn't it? Isn't it almost perfect that he would be the dude dictating
45:44
his son to get drafted to his team that he's on and and likely start.
45:50
Yeah, he ain't gonna start, man, Come on, that's oute
45:52
of b what're saying? He picked the coach too, Yes, and and
45:57
and and again everything about that is wrong and and and everybody sees. And
46:02
this is what I'm saying about the whole situation where you have a guy and
46:07
again, I'm a Laker fan, I will really I love the Lakers,
46:10
but I'm a Laker fan, not of if Lebron left, and he just
46:13
leaves, I'm a Laker fan. So what I'm saying is that you have
46:16
a guy with so much power that he essentially hand picked a coach with no
46:22
experience that's gonna make four million dollars a year. And I ain't count his
46:25
pocket and count his money. But with no experience, that's knocking a experienced
46:30
assistant coach out of that position, because I'm sure a hurling rhetoric wasn't only
46:36
to that applied. If that's how you do it, and can possibly bring
46:39
his son, who ain't got no business being on nobody's NBA team on the
46:44
team, that's ridiculous. And this is where we're at. And that's and
46:47
and and that was the I mean, that was a strategic plan. That
46:52
was an accident that they ain't nobody ever and nobody's like picking that together.
46:57
They know, but say it ain't. Who's gonna say it, Well,
47:00
you're right, who's gonna say it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous, And it makes
47:05
me so mad because it's just like, why why are we doing this?
47:08
This is where we're at, like and and and again. To round this
47:13
conversation. Now it goes back to a guy like Jerry West, who is
47:16
a GM, A real GM, a real basketball mind, would never know,
47:22
would never we're not getting your son. But if you gotta go,
47:27
because you gotta go, we would have tried to get him. Some Pixie
47:30
or Pat Rowley would have just hey, wrote you off, We're gonna start
47:34
to stay a new like it's ridiculous. And I think that's the power when
47:37
we look at a guy like Jerry Russ and his elk, this is what
47:42
this is what they present. They're gonna build franchises for a long haul.
47:46
And I think what happens is like Lebron just like what happened in Cleveland,
47:51
just like what happened in Miami. So when he's done with Cleveland, Cleveland
47:53
is off the map. And when we get done with La we're gonna it's
47:57
gonna take us years to rebuild from this crap that we had to go through
48:00
dealing with him. This is ridiculous. Does he in his mind, though,
48:05
does he in his mind think that he's the reason why those teams go
48:07
because he because he was so great for that team To say, hey,
48:09
definitely, and he's right about that. Lebron is that great. I ain't
48:13
taking nothing away from me, But I think this induration of him, like
48:16
towards the end of his career, wanting to play with the sun, trying
48:19
to dictate moves in order to make this happen, really just trying to be
48:22
the coach and just have JJ Reddick has you know, just to do JJ
48:27
Recor is assistant coach. Lebron's the coach. You know what I'm saying.
48:30
And everything about that is wrong, And but I just say, hey,
48:32
just have a player coach, just school, don't Bill Russell. I'm down
48:39
for that. All right, Well we're gonna as we get ready to try
48:45
to close this out, we had talked on the phone about about my trip
48:50
to Minnesota and some of the some of the guys and that uh I hung
48:54
out with, and and and one of the more interesting guys is did your
49:00
trip? You did a two week trip. I did autographs and golf tournaments,
49:05
and between the Dakotas and Minneapolis, we started out with a legend thought
49:10
outing in Minnesota, and then we made Viking and Lums and then as we
49:15
got over into South Dakota and North Dakota, we did a whole host of
49:21
different stuff signing. We actually was going to go to a concert, a
49:23
Journey concert, but the weather didn't hold up. The weather kind of was
49:28
wasn't wasn't really perfect, it was. It ended up a couple of we
49:30
had a couple of days of sixty seven degrees while we was up there,
49:34
so uh nu little it was a little chili because I was used to I
49:37
was used to the vacant, the hot humidity. Yeah. So but I
49:45
had a me and me and me and Chuck Foreman and for those who don't
49:49
know Chuck Foreman, and and we're gonna have him as a guest by phone
49:54
hopefully maybe even possibly next week. I had the nickname the Spin Doctor.
50:00
And for everybody who's ever done a spin move as a running back, Chuck
50:07
Foreman is the creator of that move. And and think I mean to me,
50:13
in my mind, I'm thinking, what prompted him to even do that
50:16
the first time and then turn it into a normal thing. It is,
50:22
Yeah, it's it's it's major. It's it's a major, an effective move.
50:27
But I wanted to talk a little bit about him because just to kind
50:31
of give you a little bit of a background of who he is. Chuck.
50:36
Chuck is that guy University of Miami. He comes to Minnesota and and
50:44
literally changes the whole running back position. He's now this guy that they you
50:51
can throw the ball to the back out of the backfield. He's he's spinning
50:57
when you try to tackle him. Like just all the things that like the
51:00
league has not seen. But Chuck has a unique personality. And it's funny
51:05
because me and him we somewhat have like we we think along the same lines,
51:10
and we have the same type of mannerisms in a way from you know,
51:16
getting mad at something. The types of things that we get mad at.
51:20
Me and him are kind of like right on the same page. And
51:24
it's interesting to me to even think because I can remember him as a kid,
51:30
and now that I'm sitting around chit chatting with him, hanging out with
51:35
him, it's crazy, man, and I and I'm I was just wondering,
51:37
like what is your what was your kind of knowledge of him? I
51:40
know, like because you were younger, I was gonna say, you probably
51:43
didn't have knowledge. Like when I was gonna ask you when did he play?
51:45
What was Chuck came in? And I want to say he came in
51:49
in like seventy. I came in in eighty three. I missed Chuck by
51:53
a couple of years. I think he played eighty eight or nine years.
51:57
Okay, so I've heard that vaguely, but I just you, I mean,
52:02
when you start, I mean, this is the guy University of Miami,
52:07
Like he changed the you know, for every time you threw the ball
52:10
out of the backfield to a back that came from Chuck Foreman, that came
52:15
from that literally was the Minnesota Viking new offense basically because he could catch the
52:22
ball out of the backfield and he played yes, yes, and and I
52:27
mean that was all the greats that was. That was the Vikings when they
52:30
were they were hitting the Super Bowls and just a great guy. Man.
52:34
I can't wait. I can't wait to have him on the show and and
52:37
and I know you'll be ready to ask him some questions for it. I
52:43
think the interesting component about having him being an on I think it's going to
52:46
be his story about being with the Vikings, his story because he's not a
52:52
happy player. Okay, yeah he's not, like he's not. He knows
52:59
how good he was, he knows how what he was worth, and and
53:05
he'll make the case probably that he didn't he didn't get all that he deserves.
53:10
You know, in Hall of Fame. Is he in the ring honor?
53:14
I think we talked about that. I don't think he's in. I
53:15
don't know if he's in the ring. And I just found out that even
53:19
Tommy Kramer's not in the ring, you know. And I'm mad because I
53:22
ain't in the ring, you know. And I'm thinking, like, well,
53:24
come on, but I don't think Chuck is in the hall. And
53:29
and and again here's a guy who shaped the league. Like every boy that's
53:35
catching the ball out of the backfield, that was That was fran and him.
53:42
They started that how do you not how do you not do something that's
53:47
gonna be interesting? You know? So so then let me ask you this.
53:52
We'll actually we'll go out. Okay. So the NHL Finals were Monday.
53:59
Florida Panthers got up three to oh against the edem And Oilers. The
54:02
Oilers came all the way back to push to Game seven. Panthers end up
54:07
winning game seven when they winning Stanley Cup Cup. So, would you rather
54:13
a team you're you're in the championship, you're in the series, would you
54:16
rather for that team just to beat you down, close you out three to
54:20
oh or just whoop your fifty eighth to none or whatever like that, Or
54:22
would you rather be have to push that team all the way to the last
54:27
second, the last game and get beat that way. I'm gonna tell you
54:32
the story of our NFC Championship loss. Okay, okay, we were traveling
54:39
down the field. We're down arount about the seven. Washington was playing Washington
54:46
and throw a pass. It was going to Anthony Carter, but Darren Nelson
54:53
was in the mix in between it, so he thought it was going to
54:58
him, so he attempted to try to catch it, dropped it. We
55:01
lose. Okay, and in the oh gosh, I don't remember the score,
55:07
but we're where it's tight. We we scored. We win, ok
55:10
we scored. We went this drive. All we got to do is go
55:14
down score and we went. Okay, we're in the super Bowl. We're
55:16
heading to the super Bowl. First super Bowl since back in the day.
55:21
So and and we're thinking, we're you know, we think we didn't already
55:23
beat the forty nine ers, the best team in the ever. People were
55:27
talking about it. We beat them, down, beat the Saints. We
55:30
get in there in Washington and losing. Right at that final second, I'm
55:38
sitting on the sideline and I'm looking at it. I see Darren Nelson try
55:44
to put his hand up, and everybody says that ac was open. Anthony
55:49
Carter from Michigan and he went up to try to catch it and and and
55:52
didn't catch it. Game over. It was like when you get in the
55:59
locker room and you're sitting there and you're thinking about it, You're like,
56:06
I just I really do think I would have rather been blown out in that
56:10
game so that I know we didn't have no chance at it. And that's
56:15
my point. I almost would have rather been blown out just to say you're
56:20
clearly better than I was. And I didn't make the mistake to lose the
56:23
game, like I didn't do anything to hurt myself. It's just that you
56:28
are just far better that day or whatever. Denial. And I hate I
56:31
hate the fact that, I mean, the story, you can't tell that
56:35
story without without bringing up and there I'm saying, you know, and and
56:38
I know that he doesn't. You know, I don't know how he feels
56:40
about it. I'm sure he hates the idea behind it, but it is
56:45
what it is, you know. And and again I think it was the
56:47
way Wilson was the quarterback and like I said, he said he was throwing
56:52
it the ac ac was in the back in the corner of the end zone
56:54
and got me down a good throw. He could have driven the possibility or
57:01
maybe it just wasn't a good wasn't a good throat, you know what I'm
57:04
saying. But because he was he ran the wrong route, was he read
57:07
he ran the wrong and was in was in the path the wrong route?
57:13
Yes, Okay, I ain't gonna blame a quarterback then on that one.
57:15
And that's what I'm saying in a situation like that, that's what I'm saying
57:20
because clearly you're thinking you and I bet you can't help but think y'all were
57:24
better than Washington. Yeah, it's just but not for that mistake. All
57:28
we needed was all we needed was there not to be in that position.
57:30
If you're not there, we catch the ball, we went and we're in
57:34
the super Bowl, and you're in the super Bowl and now you know,
57:36
you're thinking you're gonna win it? Yeah, right, because you're yeah,
57:38
because you did huh so, well, he's a gentleman. That's the end.
57:43
That's the end story there. I just want to make sure we think
57:46
Frank Walker, Real Talk, real experience, real results, Frank Walker,
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blaw dot com. All right, let's talk with Carl Lee is presented by
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Attorney Frank Walker. Real Talk, Real Experience, Real results Walker Law dot
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