Latest / Deeply Well with Devi Brown / Music is My Church with Dahi

Transcript

Music is My Church with Dahi · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Deeply Well. This show is a soft place
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: to land on your journey, a space where we explore
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: what it truly means to live well from the inside out,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: not perfectly, but honestly, with all the complexity, the paradox,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the beauty, and the wonder of being human. Because in
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a world that is constantly pulling at us, this is
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the space to come back to yourself, to your body,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: your truth, to the practices that genuinely sustain you, the
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: ones that work when life is actually happening. This show
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: is for the seekers, the creatives, the sensitive ones, for
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: everyone doing the quiet, courageous work of becoming whole. This
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: is Deeply Well. Welcome back to Deeply Well. I'm brown
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: as always, thank you for joining us. Very very excited
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: about today's episode because I know we are going to
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: get into the fibers of creation and creativity on today's episode.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I am so honored to bring my special guest, who
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: is a very very dear friend, one of my besties,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: in someone I deeply deeply admire. Today's guest is Dahie,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: formerly known as DJ Dahi. He is a Grammy Award
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: winning producer, songwriter, and sonic architect. Whose work has helped
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: shaped some of the most influential music of the past decade,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: from Kendrick Lamar's Money Trees and Drake's Worst Behavior to
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: collaborations with Sizza, Childish Gambino, Mac Miller, Steve Lacy, Callie
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Ucci's Vampire Weekend, Don Tolliver, Brent Faez, and many many others.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: His production is continually pushing the boundaries of hip hop,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: R and B and alternative meat music. Born in Inglewood, California,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to a North Carolina mother and an Ivorian father, doh
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Hee's approach to music has always been rooted in collaboration, experimentation,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: and storytelling. After years of defining the sound of other artists,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: he has entered a new chapter as a solo artist,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: using his own music to explore identity, community, and the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: limitless possibilities of modern Black expression. Through his work, Dohie
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: continues to challenge conventional ideas of genre and creativity, inviting
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: listeners into immersive, sonic landscapes that are as emotionally resonant
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: as they are innovative. This conversation is an invitation to
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: consider music not simply as entertainment, but as medicine, an
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: expression of creativity that has the power to heal, connect,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: and transform both the individual and the collective experience. Welcome
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: to the show.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Daie, yoh, that was amazing. You hit the tea.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I get you.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I can tell that wasn't chat GPT that was that.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Was a real from the heart, you know what I'm saying.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: So no, thank you for the thank you for the
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: very very kind words.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so deeply true. Like I just like
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm so blessed to know you as a
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: friend and we'll talk about some of this stuff we've
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: worked on over the years. But you're also just like
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a musical genius and it's really cool, you know, to
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: not just hear your music, but to know you as
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a person and have been able to spend a little
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: time really seeing what your processes and the layers through
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: in which you experienced the world to create your music.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, I think for me all these last
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: especially the last few years, it's come to a realization
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: about how life really really influences like my choices and.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: The paths that I make because I realize.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Over time about me, like I love difficult challenges when
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: it comes to doing something and trying to do something
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: totally different afterwards. And it's like this this constant challenge
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: of trying to not look back but also to pay
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: respects to like what made me who I am. But
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: it's it's like it's always a battle in this ongoing thing.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: So even interesting how we've we got closer in the
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: last few years of just having really intimate conversations around
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: creativity and just the idea or what is it what
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: creativity is really defined as It's very interesting just to
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: see how much you, for myself, kept have an appreciation
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: for who I am as a person, but also to
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: understand that it's a lot of it's just about process
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: and like understanding like everybody has their their ways of
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: processing stuff from life and experiences.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: From you know, culture, class all these things that make.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: What I'm making as a product or a homage. Just
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: to share what I'm what I've been going through, it's
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: really been enlightening. And just having time to reflect is
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: like you have to take time to reflect them. For me,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: in the last few years, it's really come to a
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: head of like, okay, this is what this actually is.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I have so many areas that I want
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to go to to really kind of like explore the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: pathway to this moment, but I think I actually want
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: to start in this moment. Can we start by talking
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: about your new project and then I want to reverse
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: engineer it in the past.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no, great.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: So please share with us this incredible new project that
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I have had the chance to listen to.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm we'll be releasing a new project called a
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Black Boy Alternative and I don't know when this episode
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: is coming, but in the near future. And it's really
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: been a life journey to get to this point to
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: actually release the project, just for the simple fact of
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: I had to have a lot of self reflection of
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: like what I wanted to say, because I think for
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: me of being in the background for so many years,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: and also through just understand how my voice has been
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: used or expressed behind the scenes directly, you know, kind
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: of having conversations with artists or having a connection with
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: other vocalists about like their performance and what they want
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: to do and how they should attack something. For me
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: to do it in the same context, it's been like
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: a long journey of really discovering what that was just
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: from the idea of when I wanted.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: To start an album and that.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: The actual initial started the idea of making an album
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: was probably around like two thousand and fifteen, twenty sixteen,
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: when I shout out to my one of my really
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: good friends and mentors, had no id. He We had
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: a dinner one time and I just had a conversation like.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I want to make album. He was
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: like you sure? He was like yeah. I was like yeah,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and then he basically was like, Okay, I'll get you
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: a record deal.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: And when he said it, it was like a oh shit,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: I do I really want this? I just said it,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: but I didn't really know what I want.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I just said it. I was like, I want to
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: make an album.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: And the journey from that point to for me to
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: actually release something was just like a constant flip flop
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: of just Okay, what do I want to say or
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: what is it? What pictures am I trying to trying
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: to convey?
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Is it about?
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: You know, trying to make something that just is going
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: to connect automatically where you know you kind of have familiar,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: feemilar understanding of like what popular music is yea, and
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: knowing that okay, this is what I think will work
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: It was like I kind of didn't want to do that,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: but I just knew.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: I was like that that's that psychological challenge of like
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: trying to make something that's uh, commercially viable, but also
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: to just like you know, just having your music be
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: played and is not going to fall on deaf ears.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: It's like a psychological thing that you go through in
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: your creative process, you know.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's it's it's something that I've come to
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: grips of the heart of what creativity is and how
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: how it's it's this constant it's really this constant challenge
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: within yourself of like when you're making something like who
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: was it really for?
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: And for me.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: That was in the last like five six years, that
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: was the point that it came to me of like
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: I really figured out what the album was because it
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: was just like this constant mode of like, Okay, this album,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: I can tell you, I can tell you long journey,
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: but basically like I had an album.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: First concept was that I mad. It was called The
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Good Seed, and that was based off of my mom's
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: plant business she had and she she when I was
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: a kid. It was I don't remember when she started
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: because don't remember when she started doing it, but basically
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: my mother would go around different parts of LA and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: service plants for people's homes and different companies and businesses
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: all over Los Angeles, and so that was like for sure,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: for sure, for sure.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: It was like and this was like ninety at least
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: from my memories that she was I think she was
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: doing it maybe late eighties, early nineties to the time
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: she left LA in two thousand and three. So I
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: wanted to basically take that concept of what the name
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: of her business was and kind of make a whole
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: story around.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: What does it mean to be good?
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Like the idea of good and challenging that narrative of good,
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: and you know, also of faith and how that there's
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: always this relation to being being a good person. But
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: I was to like just having faith and just kind
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: of like a spiritual understanding of the world, and I
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: had to I was like, well, this is gonna be great.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: It's really cool concept, has some really cool songs. And
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: then I was like, yeah, I don't something that's not
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: making sense to me. I don't know what it is.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it was. I feel like I
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: was more playing the character in this story. Then it
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: was actually like me, you know, and and I and
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: at some points I do want to go down that
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: line of what that album could possibly be, but I
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: just found myself really doing it for her, which I
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: still want to do something and that that have that
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: as a concept, but I don't know, something just kind
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: of drew me, and I was something didn't feel complete
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: So then after that, I was.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Like, Okay, I want to do an album about love songs,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: just straight love song because it was conceptually it was like, oh,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: this could be.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: This just makes sense because there's every song is has some.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: Form of love and as a as a as a theme,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: even if it's like love that turns into hate.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Love that is.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Maternal love, love that you have for your child, your mother,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: your grandmother, a love for a friend.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: And I was okay, this is really this could be
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: really fire.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: So I was like, all right, let's do that and
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: made a crouple gritty great songs, some songs like like.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Really I had had had.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: A choir in some of these songs like this really
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: had these these interesting concepts around, like just voices and
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: singing and having it be like this really cool thing.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: And then I hit it the black Wall was like, Okay,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: this is cool, but I don't know, there's still something
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: silent about what I want to say in the music
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: or something that really didn't connect.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And so I d if it's given a lot of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: those songs away, Like I gave.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: One of the songs that kind of came from that
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: session was a song called count Me Out that ended
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: up I gave it to Kendrick Lamar, who we've obviously
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: been a collaborator of mine for you know, damn near
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: now over ten twelve years.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And so but I didn't one thing about me.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: I don't have a I don't hold onto things too
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: for too long when it comes to like creative things
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: that I make. Like if it's if I like it
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: and I make it, it's really good, you.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Know, I'll hold it for a while and now I'll
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: keep it.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: But if I find another artist or something who I'm
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: collaborating with or you know, really in the trenches of
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: like trying to make something cool and there's something that
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: they may talk about or want to do that sparks
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: an idea of like oh, I have this song that
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: I made a few years ago that I think was
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: you was sounding really good on and that was one
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: of the ideas that I gave him, is like, yo,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: I think this song is really really really great, and
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: I think this is something that I think you really love.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And he as soon as he heard it was like, oh, yeah,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I gotta have this.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: So for me, it was just like this whole process
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: of kind of like creating and then almost just letting
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: it go, just kind of doing this over and over
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: and over and over and then.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Then from I think the.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Last maybe like three four years, I kind of just
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: hit a wall of it, just like what is this
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: and what what am I trying to make?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: Until I had a a jam session with a few
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: friends of mine, my friend Danny, my friend Eli, and
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: John Key, who I've I've worked with in different capacities.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: And from there it was just like we got in
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: a room and started to just play, you know. I
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: would play references of bands and things that I've loved
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: and and and we had a really great kinship of
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: just like what we all love together.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Like that's one thing for me.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: It was like, as you spoke about why I like
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: to collaborate, it's just like having another person in the
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: room that you could, you could share something and there's
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: no judgment.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: There's almost just like a straight like oh.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: You listen to that, or listen it is too and
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: you start going in a rabbit hole of just like
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: weird things or stuff that maybe nobody's heard about, or
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: things that you you would assume, you know, a black
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: kid from Englewood wouldn't necessarily love you know what I'm saying,
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: like having a.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Love for.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: You know, movie, movie orchestra soundtracks or things that have
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: that that plays too, just like the vibration of music,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: what it is and how there's different sorts of music
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: that does healing and you know takes you in different
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: spaces or takes you different ways of meditating. Just having
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: that data agreeance with someone is like very important to
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: just like okay, we can make this together. And yeah,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: from there was like a really cool deep dive of
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: just like you know, rock music and also to West
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: African music that that we loved or haven't had a
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: epivity for, and so from there it was just like, oh, wow,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: let's just make this and see what the hell happens
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: and so over that was just like I'd say, bulk
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: of the album came.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: In one week.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just like one magical week of just like
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: everybody in the room and everybody's kind of like, you know,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: adding apart, and I'm just basically guiding the ship a
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: little bit of like, okay, what if we make this
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: thing just to make it make sense as a as
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: a story, because I feel like songs have a have
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: an arc and a and a and to them and
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: how they you know, create this emotional roller coaster.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And from there was just.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Like a kind of like you let God in the
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: room type of moment were just like okay, like we
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: don't have really an engine that we're just making stuff.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: And then from there you just.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: Like you look back on that moment, you're like, oh wow,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: we did something that took me, you know, seven eight
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: years just to chop.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Down and break it down.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: And then when you when you make something and you
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: kind of let go of the control and just have
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: a freedom in that moment, you really make like real magic.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: And so yeah, it was just it was just a
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: long journey of just like bringing myself into the into
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: the framework of like what I really am about or
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: what what moves me like, what the emotionally understanding the
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: how I live and this this light and dark energy
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: with how I how I see the world, you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: And so it was it was a spiritual journey for me.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: And I think you know, a friend of mine, I
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: remember I did an interview for for NPR for this
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: thing that we did where I made it was like
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: a making of a song that I did about sampling music.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: In the conversation, like one of the things that I
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: realized that I'm trying to make is basically trying to
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: make music my church, like making like the creative process,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: like what is the defining connection to God or making
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: defining thing to like what we're doing in this frame
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: of like the world and trying to figure things out
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: and make sense. But music has always been like a
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: language that I've always had that that connection regardless of
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: what's happened in the world or what's going on, Like
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: there's a certain kinship that I've I know that's happening
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: through music. So yeah, but that's that's kind of like
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: the just of like how it's shaped into something and
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: that I can honestly say it's probably some of the best,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: you know work I've done.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it is.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Oh my gosh, there's so there's so many
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: doors I want to walk through, and what you just said,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: you know, first, something I really appreciate and find so
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: valuable is the way you're describing like what a true
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: creative process really is. Like in the day and age
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: of virality and clip culture, and you know, people just
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: trying to find fast ways to kind of like get
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: jumped into whatever their world is, like fast tracked into it.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: But then I think people quickly find like there's not
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: there's not necessarily like legacy work found there. There's not
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: necessarily like long term evolutionary creative growth available in that
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: kind of a way, because it's like pursuit more than
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: following the origin of the feeling. You know, So in
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: what you're describing, right, the layers of that, like the
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: year is twenty twenty six, right now you're having this
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: conversation with your mentor also just an incredible creator on
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Earth in twenty fifteen, right the spark comes to you,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the seed comes to you, and then you have to
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: spend time with it and spend time also being like
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: unraveled by it. You know, it's not just like I
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: have an idea and you're just like and it does
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: happen that way eventually, like you get in and you
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: do it in a week and it's magical and it's
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: channeled and it's inspired. But the road you have to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: walk to that to create it, it's like where you're
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: really born and reborn and you know how you how
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: you have even more reverence and presence with what it
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: is that God wants to move through you. And I
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, I think there's so many things
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: about you. And we'll talk about this later, but Dahi
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and I have been working on a project together for
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: now three years, four years, three years we've been working
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: on a meditation album together, and that's been like that
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: what you just described, like getting in the studio and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: me being like I have nothing, I have nothing and
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: then having like creative ideas and being like you know, okay,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: we can build it and we're finding our right time
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: for that. But in that process, something that you and
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I would do really often would just be like stop
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and sit and talk about God yep in so many
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: different layered ways, and so I know, knowing you like
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: some of your journey and how like layered it is,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: but I would also say, like facet it right, like
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of like one having you know, Ivorian culture,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: having Englewood culture. ASTs two kids that grew up in
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: la in the nineties, right, and what that really was
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: because it was cool and flashy and interesting in a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: lot of ways to the rest of the world, but
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: it was also frightening and scary and hard. There was crack,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: there were gangs. There was you know, fathers leaving households
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: in mass for incarceration. Like there was just so much
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: happening here, which yeah, I could go on a tangent
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: about policies being destroyed, but AnyWho, So what you actually
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: see as a child in that way and the reality
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: of you know, having your family structure you had previously
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: like a certain kind of rigid religious background that really
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: influenced your life, you know, and then now as a
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: father and as a creative and as someone who has
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: access magic to create like really big moments with really
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: special artists that are here for a big purpose. So
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: it's it's so laired and sometimes all of those stories
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: have to be observed and worked through and questioned to
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: get what it is you're creating out. So as you
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: talked about it being a spiritual journey, it's like, you know,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I think when you haven't gone through one. People can
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: hear that and just have no idea what that actually
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: means when someone says something like that or why that means.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: They would still need to take the amount of time
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: that it takes. But like you're in the fibers of
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: everything that makes you you to get out of you
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: what is for the world. And timing is also so
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: important because I think it's so important, Sott, and I
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: want you to dive into that because I think what
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of our greats go through, like the people
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: that create the different sounds or the foundational work for
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: next generations, like you can be so clear and the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: world can be unready yep, because more life still has
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: to happen for people to even receive what it is
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: you have to give, so the dynamic nature of that.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'd love to hear about that part of
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: the process for you and what that especially feels like
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: as a creator, Like when you know you have this
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: and the way that you framed it earlier is like,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: you know, I forget exactly what you said, but I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: loved it. It was like, you know, will it fall
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: on deaf ears? Like can people receive it?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: No, I mean it's it's it's I'm always thinking about that.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Like I remember going to Amsterdam and it was like
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: a trip I did a few years back, Memoriesact. But
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: when the Hoghlst was going to see the Van Gold
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Museum and going to see, you know, learn about his
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: artistry and in his his whole life of creating these
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: obviously like world renowned, world renowned paintings and really listening,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: like really learned wise life. And it was like this
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: epiphany that realized about like like everybody in life thinks
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: their their time on earth or in this this realm
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: of we live in is the most important time in
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: the history of mankind.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Like the existence that we live in.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: There's a certain level of like whatever I'm doing, it's
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: the craziest thing of all time. And to see, you know,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: a artist of his caliber go through a lot of struggle,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: just go through a lot of just of hardship and
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: and unappreciation and just this this this is downward spiral
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: of this a lot of things that you hear and
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: then to find out years later that you know, how
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: his art became popular after he was gone and grew.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Into this big, big, big, big, you.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Know phenomenon It really taught me about just time and
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: how you can't really be too judgmental of your work
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: in the moments because sometimes the message is not it's
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: not really supposed to be heard yet. It's something about
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: the lineage or the timeline, like certain things it's just
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: not ready to be spoken about. It's it's it's really
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: you know, it's interesting about conversations and how, especially like
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six, you realize how much we're filming
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: everything and.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: We're recording everything, and we're we're.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Basically, uh, having internal conversations, but having it out loud
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: in the world, and that that having that that the
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: time to being the bunker or just having like isolation
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: or having you know, things that stay in certain rooms.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: You know at some point you want them to be revealed.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: But sometimes it's like, oh, just hold on for a minute,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: just give it time, because the conversation that it's heard,
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: like people's you could say something, but it could just
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: follow on death because people aren't really even hearing what
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: you're saying. They're hearing they're hearing what they want to hear.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: They're hearing perspective.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Now it's going through their filters.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: It's going through their filter and and and internalizes as like.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Did you just say call me this? And he's like, no,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't even say that. I said something totally different.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: So I think just in this process of just making things,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: I think just the art of practicing.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And just making it for the for the sake of
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: making it.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Is such an important, uh, part of the process because
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: eventually it is going to connect the event Eventually you do.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: You are going to have your chance.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: You are going to have the stage if you want
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: the stage to be able to express whatever you're going through, what,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: what you internalize, what you what certain situations made you,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: how how it made you feel, because there is a
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: certain there is a relation of the existence of what
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: we all basically go through as a whole. It doesn't
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: it shouldn't feel as individual, you know, it's it is
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: something that an individual, but.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: It's uh, the the the.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Lineage of humans all go through the same you know, Yeah, tragedy,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: the same, hardship, shame, love, same, you know, depth of
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: you know what life means to to various degrees and
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: so truly.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Truly, you know, that's that's something we have to.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And it's funny because we all think you know every
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: iteration of human. We all think we are the most advanced. Yes, yep,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: and you know, to our historic knowledge, we are because
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: we're in our modern era. But everyone that's alive is
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: in their modern era. There is no Yeah, so that yeah,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: very interesting.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it's just the realization of of again,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: like the challenge of being a creative or just making things.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm one of your famous quotes that
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: I learned from you when we talked about just like
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: what is it to create?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Like? To create is is pathways? You know what I'm saying,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Like when you when you.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Decide to go left, that's the creation. That's that when
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: you decide to go right.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Every choice is a creation.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Every choice is a.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Definitive angle that I'm just going to take. And so
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: under standing.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: These these.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Uh calculated moves or just uh what the word I'm
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: thinking of a just compound of everything all together, it
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: creates a a opportunity or change or something.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So over time, you just you just start to give yourself.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I for myself, I give myself a lot more grace
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: in knowing that if something is successful quote unquote, which
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: means it's maybe heard on more ears then yeah, it's great.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: It's you pray for just the things to be heard.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: But sometimes if it doesn't connect, that's okay. I think
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: that's that is a sometimes a gift from God. We're
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: just like, okay, you you may have you may have
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: ah skipped something that you just weren't ready for, you know,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: the attention of something or the thing, because sitting on
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: that mountaintop is like a and having that attention it
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: it's kind of unhealthy. Sometimes it depends on how much
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: you can carry the weight and just understand what's really
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: happening in this.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Whole sphere of things.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: So even what I'm going through now making this album
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: and putting out like I don't really know what will happen,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: but I I am very appreciative of like having friends
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: with yourself and just a community of people that will
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: you know, tell me encouraging things or help me stay
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: in a certain path of just like like there's.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: A bigger thing happening, you know what I'm saying.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I always remember that in the bigger thing happening. Yes,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I think that's so important to illustrate because it's like
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes we're not making things for our time, yes, and
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: taking the ego away from that and just saying, like
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: this is how God is using me now, and I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: don't have to understand, and no matter how much it
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: means to me, it doesn't have to like glorify me
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: in this moment that I'm alive and like and what
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: you're illustrating with Van go Love thinking about him as
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: one of the great masters, because like you have your Picassos,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: who was famous and revered and celebrated as a genius
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: while he was alive his whole artistic life, right, and
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: then you have other people who like Van Goh, you know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: we're just in obscurity and depression, creating to get like
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the agony out, you know, like creating from torture and
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: then leaving this earth, like thinking they're worthless, like as
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: a person, and then only to find that, you know,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: they they've changed the world with what they've created and
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: inspired just probably millions of ideas and works, and that
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: is valuable to God. That matters just as much so
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: I think even those of us that create and may
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: maybe are not received fully in that moment, it's just
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: so important to remember that, like it's still profoundly valuable,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: absolutely and also enjoying it while it's here, like saying
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: like people don't have to get it, but wow, I'm
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: proud of myself for this or my hope, my intention
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: for this work is ye, and then leaving it there.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: When I think about the title of your project, black
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Boy Alternative, talk to me about that. I think the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: intention behind that, like the desire to express yourself fully
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: and not be boxed in, is so important to hear,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: especially as a person of color. And you have achieved
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of mainstream success, and then you've also had
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: projects that have been for the creative love and so
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: kind of doing that dance with both.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's uh, it's funny. And I got that title.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: It was kind of play on a few things like
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: it was. It was a play on black boyfly by
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Kendrick mar from the Uh Good Kid Mass City. And
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I just love that the name black boy because I
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: think that in itself is just a category that of
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: a box of like what how we see people, how
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: we assume a story about someone by just the title
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: of of orsual the visual nature of someone when you
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: look at them, like, oh, that's a bat's a black boy,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: he's he's thirteen twelve whatever, and just the what comes
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: with that responsibility of of of of being a male
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: and being you know, strong but also not being vulnerable
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: and all these things of like carrying weight.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: It's like a huge thing.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: And so for me, like just thinking about myself as
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: a child and like the different experiences that I've went
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: through from you know, being in a very strictly you know,
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Christian church and having that basically be my identity from
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: you know, the time I was I could remember too,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: you know, I left for college. But in in that
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: that identity being at the forefront, there was always these
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: sub genres or such things that were happening that I
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: came across from just being you know, growing up in
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: in the nineties and being exposed through television of like
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: what music is.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Like. MTV was like a huge, huge, huge, huge thing
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: in my life of just exposure just seeing what's happening
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: outside in the world. And you know, we're around the
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: same Maine, so there's a certain level of just like
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: kind of of the I think MTV. I felt like
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: MTV was like a shell shocking thing of like what
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: was being exposed to like kids, certain levels of just
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: like different bands, different artists, like rap.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Like pop culture, Like there was a lot of I
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: felt like the nineties was pop culture had had a
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: rebellious theme in a lot of the messaging and that
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: was going on. So for me, you know, I call
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: it like sneakily watching stuff while you know my mom
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: is a way, you know, because Star Girl was I
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: have with my mom's kids, I have ten brothers and
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: sisters in total, but my mom's side, with my stepdad,
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: I have six.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Or five other siblings. So I was and I was
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: the oldest.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: So a lot of the time that I would be,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: you know, watching these shows would be you know, when
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: my mom's work and I'm babysitting, and so a lot
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: of it was just like, oh, let me just just
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: watching MTV and and watching music videos, and so there
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: was just it was just an interesting time because I
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: think back to just the imagery and just like the
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: from like watching Nirvana's Teens Spirit video or watching uh
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Bone Thugs It's the first of the month, like all
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: these songs that kind of kind of really tell like
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: some really have visually some hard things that you're watching
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: that is like dis imprinted in your your in your
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: you know, your front frontal level, like oh, this is what.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Life is, you know. But for me, it was just
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: it was just interesting stuff like just the messaging, the color.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: And over time it was just like, you know, I
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: just became a enamateurs, like Yo, what's this or what's
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: what's what is this this band or what I was saying.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: So for a while, like I mean, there was a
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: point too when I was just totally into, totally into
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: like British rock music, like any band that came from
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: that side of.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: The of the the pond of the pond.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just like, oh, this is this is crazy,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: this is really cool. And you know again and I
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm I'm a kid in Englewood. So the
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: only people I would really kind of have this conversations
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: with was skater kids, you know what I'm saying, the
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: kid kids who who had.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: The black kid from Michael was just funny.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Like he he was one of my really best friends
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: in middle school and high school and we we loved
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: you know, anime and uh we would we would we
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: never could afford to. We would always try to go
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: to the comic inventions and stuff like that. But like
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: and he would get these tapes of like you gotta check.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Out this anime. This is like the latest version of
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: dragon Balls.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: He does not here, It's still in Japan, and we
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: would watch it. So there was a banter that we
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: always had. And also skateboarding and and and uh and music.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: So for me, it was just like that having being
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: a lot kind of in this alternative space of just
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: like things that are just not played the mainstream of
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: like rap music was obviously like Tupac or Biggie and
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: you know, uh snoop, you know what I'm saying, Like
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: and I and again I love I loved all this
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: music too. I would hear it because I because I
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: basically would listen to popular music only in uh, outside
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: of just watching MTV sneakily, I would just hear on
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: the yard at school, you know what I'm saying, Like
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: people would have the discman and CD players and you
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: would hear like, oh, this artist is dope or everybody
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: loves this this person. So a lot of it was
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: just like uh, me just being exposed, but also to
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: not having to I guess, the courage to be like
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: this is what I listened to, this is what I like.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: It was more like I don't know if y'all gonna
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: fuck with this, Like I'm gonna I'm gonna go listening
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: to this stuff on the way home as I'm walking
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: from from you know, down Crenshaw down to you know,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: my house and in Hearthorne.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: So a lot of it was.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Just like this, this appreciation for certain type of music
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: or certain kind of messaging in music that they just
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: had a raw emotion and I realized for me, like music,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: music has always been a vessel for for me to
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: speak emotionally, Like I've never really been a a visibly
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: emotional person when it comes to just like my my
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: my facial expressions or how I feel like I can obviously,
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: you know, deal with certain issues when it comes to
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: like expressing myself, but music was always the easiest way
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: for me to do that.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Coming back to now, in that period, it was just
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: something that I, you know, I realize over time like
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: trying to find I feel like what made the album
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: make sense was just trying to find the connection of
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: like my upbringing from you know, being having a West
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: African father and being exposed to you know, cultural you know,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: significant music that he would play in when.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I would visit him on the weekends, and.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Also having like this this understanding of like what rock
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: music is and trying to find the tie of like,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: oh this is what, Oh this is the connection is
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: the guitar.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: The guitar is the to me, it is the world instrument.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Like there's just levels of like how it's played or
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: the voicing behind it that really defines like what a
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: genre is. But it's really the same thing if you really,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: if you really listen to music over the guitar is
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: probably the well I say, the drum is probably the
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: The drum and the guitar probably the two things that
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: are like you can find that anywhere in the world,
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. And so when I found
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: that connection of it is like a certain style of
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: playing guitar or a certain style that feels like similar
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: to like some of the bands I used to listen
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: to growing up, I was like, oh, this is what
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: this is, Like I can I can tell this story
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: sonically and have it make sense even though it doesn't
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: automatically feel.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Like it's a it's an easy answer, you know. So yeah,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: that that having that.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Theme was like super important to just like, oh, this
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: is what alternative music to me.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: It's just it's kind of like revealing back the layer of.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: You know, Chuck Barry can sing this song and David
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: Boy can sing this song.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: It's the same damn song. But it's just the voicing
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: that makes it soulful, you know what I'm saying. But
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: it's still the same thing.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: It's just the emotional voice that really creates the Yeah, oh.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I feel this person, I feel what's happening.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: You know, it's their translation exactly.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, and you realize that over time of just
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: understanding like the music in America specifically like country music
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: or rock and roll soul, like, there is a tie
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: and to me it's always been it's kind of always
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: been the guitar. The guitar is like this lineage of
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: just like of style of play. But you know, the string,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: you know itself, like the plain is, does have a
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: certain movement to it that just bring expression.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting to sit and think about. Like, and
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I've always like, I love the way you hear life
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: like being alive. Yeah, that's so interesting how different it
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: sounds based on the feeling of the culture and the
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: time that the person picks it up.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, and you find like, you know, but
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: you find you know, there's there there's a lot of
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: different if you if you go down history his history
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: of certain instruments like the guitar, it's a lot of
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: different types of guitars are based on different types of scales.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: So there's different tonal scales that in popular music like
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: it's you know, these twelve notes and they kind of
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: all convulsed to make some certain type of melodies, which
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: is what we've normally here in like the US and things.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: But if you go to you know, different parts of
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: Africa and the different tones that people use. For you,
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: when you see their string instruments, some of them are
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: super diminished or destinate, and there's.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: They have more of a rhythmic.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Uh rhythmic power to how it's played, but the tones
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: of the strings are very close to each other.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: So it's almost like if you and you like if
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: you've heard.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: So I think of anything specifically like like like traditional
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: even like certain early traditional Ethiopian music, Like there's there's
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: some really interesting like like just rhythms and time patterns
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: that create like a certain new almost like new dance,
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: like I went to I went to Ethiopian wedding UH
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: sign on my ab last year, and it was this
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: interesting watching an Ethiopian wedding with the traditional Ethiopian band
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: and they're playing all these songs and the pocket of
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: the rhythm of how they were dancing, it was like it.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Felt like this is a new thing, Like, man, we
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: should bring this here.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Like it just like if it's a certain bounce that
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: you would hear, and but it was still the guitar.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: It was just the it was like a regular guitar
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I've seen and every day, and so it just it
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: just really opened my mind to just like this level
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: of like, Okay, it's there's certain parts of the world
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: that that treat this instrument as a a almost like
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: a march you know what I'm saying That it's the
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: guitar can be used as a marching instrument for any
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: particular cultural you know, celebration or also to instrument of war.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, Like there's a lot of
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: things that you could take these instruments and creately create
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: a narrative of like inspiration that that that it's very
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: important to these people in this part of the world.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: So over time you just you just realize the for me,
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: the connective tissue of what we've grown up here in
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: the States as being like popular, and I think with
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: rock music specifically, there's just a certain face to it
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: that is usually you know, white or you know, male
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: or folk whatever, all these things that are very important
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: to like the the fabrics of American culture. But there's
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: also like a face of just like, you know, a
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: lot of incredibly gifted black artists who have taken the
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: same instrument and created like just just incredible new voices
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: and it should be celebrated as you know, not just
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: in the black culture, but just as a whole of
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: just like what we've come to do as listeners of
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: music that we love, you know.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: So you know, I kind of I'm always just.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Very interested in just the the the connection of because
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: being in America, there's so much of cross breeding that
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: you just don't realize is actually happening. Just like you
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, just from food, or of going
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: visiting someone else's church or visiting right, you know, like
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: a moscar, just things that have to do with just
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: like I'm gonna go check this out and see what
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: it's about, and you you really start to realize how
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: much we're the same but also it says nuances to
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: like how traditions get carried down and hopefully still be preserved.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, so yeah, that was a.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Long tangent, but wow, no, so good and so interesting
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: because I even that piece about like what we are
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: like kind of taking and sharing from different places, Like
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: it even reminds me of like how flowers and plants
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: get to new areas, like when seeds travel in the
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: wind or get stuck on the bottom of someone's shoe,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: and now that somehow ends up as like you know,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: a main crop or even an evasive species you know,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: in some areas. But that's really how we're all changed
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: by one another's creation and creativity. And sometimes it's hard
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: because you know, it feels like I think in some
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: ways there can be like a feeling of taking or appropriating,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: or a feeling of you know, like expansion, but we're
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: all being changed in every moment by what one another
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: chooses and creates. To that extent of music, like you know,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: when you're changed by something you hear and you take
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: a little piece of it back to wherever you are
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: or you tell someone about it, and then that's kind
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: of yeah, the influence and the seeding and how culture
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: expands and changes form.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's it's crazy. Like even I remember because
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: we talked about this before me and Dev went to
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: a Cleo Soul concert.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: It was that last year or something and Queen.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: I love you too clear, But it was just an
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: interesting thing because you know, we have a lot of
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: talk about just like obviously the connections of spiritual spirituality
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: and just like culture and both and being being in connection.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: And it was going to her show. It was like
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: the first time I had a realization of is like
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: what she is as an artist to me and what
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: she is to other people. And so it was like
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: going to a show it felt like new church. Like
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: it felt like a new version of church that you
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: can't really call.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: It like christiananity is, but it was. It was It
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: was obviously.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Fundamentally like based in like hymns and.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: And the music that this has like very very.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Significant message about like belief in yourself and belief in
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: others and and just positive you know, positive messages.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: And just seeing her sing out.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: To the crowd and have you know, people cry, and
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: just like it was like, damn, this is like this
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: is like church.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Like if it had like you know the first part
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: church where you're.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: Just singing these hymns, and it was it was just
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: a realization of like the power of the the effects
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: of what music actually is and what it's actually doing
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: for people and it's healing, it can it can do, Yeah, exactly,
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: Like it felt like we're going to that show, Like
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: I didn't I paid to see a show, but I
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: kind of left with like, damn, I can become a
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: better person.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: And and that's just the beauty.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: That's just the beautiful part about like music when it
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: hits a certain uh level of of just connection like
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: with a higher, higher thing that's going on, you know.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: And yeah, when you choose to use your annoying.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: When you want to choose it for the right thing.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you recognize, you know, what it can do
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and be used for that's bigger than just you and
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: your own aggrandizing or your own wants, needs and desires
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: like that is. Yeah, there is like a there's such
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: a service in her work. There's such a service to
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: humanity in her work. That show one of ed as
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: people that have gone to thousands of concerts like yeah, yeah,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I've been to like two thousand concerts, Like probably one
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: of the greatest shows I've ever had the chance to
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: be at. And I remember feeling in the audience like
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: so grateful to receive the transmission and that show is
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: so interesting to me too, because I think, you know, what,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: we don't always realize and I should probably fact check this,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: but you know, growing up, like going to the Hollywood Bowl,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: it's our outdoor kind of amphitheater, right, and like you
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: don't usually look behind you wherever you're seated. You're just
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: looking at the stage, and like, you know, I think
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: we were like in those little picnic boxes, so you know,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: and I remember taking a second to like really stop
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: and turn around and look at that and feel the
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: power of like the moon and the stars and the
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: open sky and where we're positioned and what surrounds us
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: and being like there's over twenty thousand people behind me, crazy,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: and then thinking of like when I met her music,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: which was I want to say twenty twenty, and you know,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: between between CLO's solo projects and then her projects as Salt,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: and like feeling like I'll never forget when I first
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: heard Salt, and God, I was in a desperate time,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: like I was just suffering and I was. I was, yeah,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: like a young mom of like a two year old,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: and I remember like how close to God those songs
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: made me feel without saying this is for God and
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: this is church, you know, like because there was still
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: like I think and there still is like there we're
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: having a real reckoning with faith and integrity and faith
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: and in the leaders and an understanding, you know, and
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: being reconnected to the deeper reasons for receiving messages about
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: God or listening to music about God and so to
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: be there. And I think for so many of us
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: she was like in our private heart because we met
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: her so intimately and you know, she's in the UK.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: She's very kind of like you know she I love
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: that she keeps her mystery about her and her privacy
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: about her. So I was shocked, like to see that amphitheater,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: not because she couldn't pack it out. It wasn't amazing,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: but I was. I was like, I didn't even realize
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: this many people were like in movement with themselves with
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: her voice like the way that I was, because every
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: it was.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Church for everyone, everyone everyone.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, an incredible night and it was interesting too because
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: it was like because I go me and you diving
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: on everything, and so it was just interesting to see
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: like you would you wouldn't necessarily think from just if
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: you look at numbers of like you know, okay, how
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: many streams is this? Artists have for how many YouTube things?
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: And very very calculated times, which is another topic I
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: can go on up I'm tanging about, but just this
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: the difference between like what what someone's the metrics or
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: something like the actual like stats of things and then
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: going to a place where none of that matters and
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: you're seeing the actual effects of what an artist can
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: do and it's it's connection was just like a real
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: eye opening of just like to bringing it back to
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: the first point about just like you never really know
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: if you if you just look at things from us
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: face value, you never really know like how and what
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: you're doing affects then the person literally standing next to you,
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: right like, just just as you're you're you're creating things
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: and making stuff in the world, there's a certain level
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: of like silence that you have to have to be
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: prepared for because it's always going to be there. It's
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: a silence of your own self doubt, silence of the
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: response that you may not get from someone. But there's
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: always there, there's always something out there that if you,
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: if you, if you have the right pathway that lets
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: you know, like what you're doing is actually affecting a
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: group of people that you don't even know. You know
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Like, you don't, you don't, you have
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: no idea. And and that's the great thing about I say,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: of this time for me, it's just like understanding the
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: global connection of an artist and the music because you know,
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: even like you and myself, like me and Danielle was talking, Danielle, Hey,
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: how you doing. We were talking about just my you know,
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: the music I'm making and how I don't know if
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: it's going to crack it in the US. I have
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: no idea. If it does, great, who cares. But there's
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: this might be a little boy in Mexico that here's
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: this album and this is like, oh, this is amazing.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: This is something that I connect with.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: There's a whole world.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: There's a whole world of course things, you know what
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, And just just always keeping that in the
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: back of your mind of like of the bigger picture
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: of what you're making and why you're making it.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: It really does create like a level of like faith
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: and trust and and within myself because I know, you know,
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: I've been I've definitely lived that life for the last
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: you know, uh since you know, basically like twenty thirteen twelve,
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: where I was like, Okay, I'm doing music full time
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: and every year is a risk, you know what I'm saying,
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Where it's not I don't know when the next project is,
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know when the next meal is. But there's
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: a certain level of like I'm just I'm gonna have
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: to believe in something to make it work.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: And so to get to this point in my career and.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Having that same notion in this new ventures like really
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: keeping me at a great pace with my expectations, but
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: just creating for the love of it and knowing that
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: it'll do. It's going to do what it needs to
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: do in gards of connecting with the right voices. So
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: but yeah, but her, but going to that concert really
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: over my eyes suggests like.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: The things I just shouldn't pay attention to at all.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: It's just like, you know what I'm saying, what matters?
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, because we do.
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: I definitely feel like today Numbers is like this weird
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: numbers in music is like this really interesting thing because
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: there's a certain level of like of popular that is just.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: A real metric of like like is this good or bad?
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: You know, right right, And it's kind of scary. It's
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: very scary, especially in these times. It's just like knowing
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: what a number tells you about impact?
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, I would say what a
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: number tells you about impact, but more specifically what the
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: people perceiving take that to mean? Yes, like whatever meaning
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: they attribute to that, and what that is supposed to
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: mean about you? Yes, I think that is that That's
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: the weird mechanism that I'm that I always kind of
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: look at and notice and I'm just like, it doesn't matter.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, it doesn't.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, it doesn't have to make sense, And
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: who the hell are these people? You know what I mean?
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Like whatever metrics of validation. But yeah, it's such a
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: it's such a prop says you know. One of my
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: like all time favorite songs is that like makes me
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: feel God so deep rich spirit. Oh really, yes, When
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: I think about you know some of the ways that
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: like I've heard you describe your process to me it's
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: always so generous. Like I remember once we were sitting
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: literally in this room because before this got turned into
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: a studio, we sat here and started work on this
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: album that's going to come out one day, and I
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: remember I was really I was really struck by something
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: because like music, hip hop, this moment of humanity, it's
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: so self centered. Yes, Like it's so self focused in
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: every single way, like people just want everything to only
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: direct back to them and be back to them. And
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I remember you were talking to me about your creative
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: process and how much you love to collaborate, like how
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: you do not want to be the only person in
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: the room that like the experience becomes so much more
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: for you when you're in like what you described at
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: the top of this episode, this kind of like synchronistic
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: divine flow and this this dance and seeing the value
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: and the power in that and seeing in real time
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: the value and the power that every person in the
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: room brings to what's being created for kind of like
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: the greater consumption and the greater good.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Talk to me about that song, man, that song is
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: it's one of my favorite songs too. That song came
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: together with one of my really good friends named Freano
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: who's from New Zealand when the Codis produces Coming at
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: New Zealand, but.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Also too in the world.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I met him through another friend of mine,
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: Frank Duke's, and so we just started collaborating over the internet.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: Basically he lived, he was living there, he was living
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: at the time, and we were just kind of shooting
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: ideas back and forth and so we.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: He he he.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: Sent me like this really like crazy like melody loop,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: which is like the main part of rich Spirit that
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: I was like, this feels like like some Phil Collins.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: I can feel it coming in the air tonight, like
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: it has like this that is my jam, greatest one
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: and the greatest songs of all time.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Oh the build on those drums is so crazy.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: One of the greatest songs of all times.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: And and for me, I love one thing, you know,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: like I love music that just has like a a
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: color to it where there's like there's a mystery, but
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: there's a darkness that it's not evil, but it's just
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: like a it's like a it's a mood.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: It's like it's like almost like this is nighttime.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: It's like that type of dark shadow shadow, you know
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying, and I remember, like I was like, oh,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: this is crazy, and so I just started to just building,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: started to build around the melody idea he gave me
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: just kind of like more space, Like that song was
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: all about space. There was not I don't feel like
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: it needed too much to.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Kind of happen or go on. And I remember, I
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: remember I sent it to Kendrick and we were kind of.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: Like the last stages of of the Mister Morale on
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: the Big Stepper album and.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: You know, with wow, So it was it existed kind
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: of like that far back.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: Well the funny thing is for him, which is funny
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: because there's there's a leak of the song on a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: totally different beat where he's he's he's taken some some
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: bars that he wrote and similar, it's very similar, very
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: very very hook was there, but it wasn't really defined
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: as a whole thing, but you could hear like, oh,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: this is the mood is there, but it may not
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: may not be on the right instrumental. But yeah, I
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: sent it to him and I mean yeah, he literally
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, this this is perfect, Like this is
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: this this is like an idea that I have something
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: for this already almost like basically, and he was, and
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: he sent it to me as a demo and I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: was like, man, this is hard.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: This is this I haven't heard you have this, this.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: Kind of smoothness to your to what you're saying, you
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, a certain level of like confidence
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: where like you know, it's almost like it's almost like
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: some some pimp is where you can knock over the
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: cup and the cup just automatically stays at the top,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. It just like that type
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: of confidence and just like who I am as a person,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: what I stand for. And that's a quick thing too.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: I think it's like music today. There's a certain confidence
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: that I feel like in rap music is I don't hear,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: I hear people want.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: To be the best.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: But there's a certain level of this like confidence that
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: you have to speak when you when you are MC
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: and being able to relay like yeah, like I am,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: I am the man. And but it's it's not just
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: vague and just just you know, selfish. It's it's more
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: of like I've been through life. I my people, I
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: love my people, love me. I love my people. Uh there,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: I take care of my people. I I I'm rich
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: in who I am as a as a spiritual being,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: and I'm just gonna say it, and I don't care
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: if you like it.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, And.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Very different than saying I'm the fucking man. Y'all don't
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: get it, do you?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's just it's and again again rap is
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: not pointing fingers because you know, there's a lot of
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: rappers to do that, but.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Of course it's part of it's also the aggrandizing of Yeah,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: it's it's the genre. It's the bigger than life, yeah
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: kind of feeling.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, rap as a drama is just a very like
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: it's it's obviously it's quote unquote's a young man's game,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: but it's also a level of just like like.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Like I'm him, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: the one.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I think self self belief at the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: end of the day, just like confidence in yourself and
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: what you're doing. So when he had that, when he
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: when he sent me the like the early version back,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh wow, this is like this just
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: feels different like this to me, like I don't again,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: it was one of them just like I don't care
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: if anybody don't like this, Like I know this is
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: hard like and uh and it's it's really cool to hear,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: you know, even years later, Like for certain people that
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: song is like kind of like a really like poignant
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: time of just like yo, this is like a powerful
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: record you know.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: For so eerie too. Yeah, like it just like it
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: weaves itself inside of you, like it kind of like
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: spins around and moves and finds places like there's this
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: like haunting quality too.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, exactly, And that's what I'm saying, Like there's
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: there's there's songs that like that that that do a lot,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: and I love records that that on face value you
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: would think it it is is something that is super
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: sad or dark or done, but just having like a
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: juxtaposed like idea around the mood of the record where
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: it allows you to live in that darkness and have
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: light at the end of the tunnel, you know what
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: I'm saying. And those are the type of records that
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: I personally love to be a part of because there's
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: that's just life, you know, life is just this journey
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: of like of you know, you wake up and you
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: it's a lot of negative thoughts that could just hit
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: you depending on how much.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: You prepare yourself.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: It's hard, hard, and but just to have something that
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: again affirmations and just you say that to yourselves and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: you just basically put it out on front Street and
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: then it creates like a lineage of like, Okay, this
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: is a path you're going to do for today. And
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: I feel like that record is like does that Sometimes
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: I forget that's funny you brought it because I have
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: a real bad problem of like remembering.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Songs that I did because I say, I just I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: don't know, I just move on.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: That's saying right now.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: It's more of just my process of just.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you got to let it go after you
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: make it exactly exactly that I think like probably, I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: mean so many, but two of my favorite records ever
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: by Ken is Rich Spirit in God, Like I mean, like, yeah,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: those are so invocative to my spirit. Thank you for
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: making that record.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, thank you for listening, Dahie.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: At the end of every episode, I like to invite
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: our guests to provide what we call soul work. So
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: it's just a little piece of integration for the week
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: in between the episodes, and it can be a quote
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: that people can think about, a journal prompt, a thought starter,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: an actual practice like you know, a body movement or
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: a stillness, whatever it is, but just something to kind
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: of be in process with after hearing this episode. So
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: I want to invite you now in this moment to
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: share some soul work with the eyes adience.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Damn you think of some stuff.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe even an invocation for creativity or part of you know,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: your practice and process when you're in movement with your ideas.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, Well, my message for all people in
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: their start of creating or the end of something that's creating,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: I think it's just important to.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: Pray m.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: Just for the simple fact of you know, you so
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: much of it is an eternal vision of that comes
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: into your process of making or just things that that
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: have you know, your expertise that creates like a reaction
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: to what you're making. But I think at the end
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: of the day, I think prayer is just a giving
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: thanks to your ability to make what you're making, and
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: also to just knowing that you know there's a certain
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: connection of like of.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: God helping it lead the.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: Way because there's so much of what we do I
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: think as people, there's a I say complex, but there's
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: a certain level of like you just feel like it's
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: everything's on your shoulders and what you're making. So I
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: think at end of the day is like having prayer
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: of any sort, like it could be you know, ten seconds,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: thirty seconds, a minute, time of isolation, but just having
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: the time to just give thanks and also to just
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: acts for you know, guidance.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: I think it's just such an important aspect.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: To the end result of just being You're being going
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: to be okay with it regardless and so overall. Yeah,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: I'm saying that to myself currently right now. So have
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: that in your in your willhouse of while you're making.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: When you're making.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: So good. Thank you for saying that all. Thanks Dahi
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: and clickable links in the show notes of this episode.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: Look out for black Boy Alternative. Incredible, incredible, incredible project.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you, long time coming here,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: We're here, We're here.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: We here, we did it. Album coming soon.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: It is coming soon, coming soon, coming soon.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening back next week. No, I'm mis stay.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: The content presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does not
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, it is advisable
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: any specific concerns or questions that you may have. Connect
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: or you can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: don't forget, Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: episode to a friend. Deeply Well is a production of
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jacquess Thomas,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath You
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Heard That's by Jarrelen Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.