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The Breakfast Club · The Bechdel Cast

0:00
Speaker 1: Oh, Hi, Hi, everybody, it's us. It's us. We're just
0:03
Speaker 1: here to let you know that you will be listening
0:06
Speaker 1: to our Breakfast Club episode. Which you do know but
0:09
Speaker 1: you may not know, is that this episode was recorded
0:12
Speaker 1: live last month in San Francisco. Ever heard of San Francisco?
0:16
Speaker 1: I have. We were there for like a whole twelve hours.
0:20
Speaker 1: We were Yeah, we just wanted to say hello. We
0:23
Speaker 1: wanted to let you know if you live in the
0:25
Speaker 1: Los Angeles area, we have a live crossover show coming
0:29
Speaker 1: up in March with The Daily Zeitgeist. That's right, It
0:33
Speaker 1: is on March nine. It is at Dynasty Typewriter and
0:39
Speaker 1: we will be there with Jack and Miles of The
0:41
Speaker 1: Daily Zeitgeist and we're going to be talking about the news,
0:45
Speaker 1: the trends, the movies, the moments of nine nine. Uh So,
0:53
Speaker 1: if you live in the area, definitely roll the fun through.
0:57
Speaker 1: We would love to meet you and hang. And you know,
1:00
Speaker 1: we don't like to make it a habit to be
1:02
Speaker 1: on stage with men. But what do you think I
1:06
Speaker 1: was going to say, we just got friends. I thought
1:09
Speaker 1: you're just gonna say on stage in general, And I
1:12
Speaker 1: was like, we we do live show that No, no, no,
1:15
Speaker 1: we don't like to be seen with men very often,
1:19
Speaker 1: but you know we're making an exception one night only
1:21
Speaker 1: and we'd love to see you there. Yes, so get
1:23
Speaker 1: tickets at becdelcast dot com and then click on live
1:26
Speaker 1: appearances and we'll see you there. Enjoy the live show
1:30
Speaker 1: on the Breakfast Club. On the dol cast, the questions asked,
1:35
Speaker 1: movies have women in them? Are all their discussions just
1:39
Speaker 1: boyfriends and husbands? And do they have individualism? The patriarchy?
1:43
Speaker 1: Zef invest start changing it with the bel Cast? Hi,
1:49
Speaker 1: answer Scott, what's up? Are you in? All out? You
1:54
Speaker 1: said the name of the city and everything. Hi, I'm Caitlin,
1:59
Speaker 1: I'm Jane me and we're the Bechtel Cast. We are
2:05
Speaker 1: indeed in San Francisco. Uh, it is rainy, it is
2:09
Speaker 1: five pm. We are shocked and thrilled you're here. Thank
2:13
Speaker 1: you for being here. Clap if you've heard the Bechtel
2:17
Speaker 1: Cast before. Okay, and um not to put anyone on blast.
2:25
Speaker 1: There's no wrong answer, but obviously there is based on
2:28
Speaker 1: what you just heard. But clap if you if you
2:30
Speaker 1: haven't heard our show before, Okay, sick are you here
2:34
Speaker 1: with friends? Did friends drag you along? Yes? We'll put
2:39
Speaker 1: on the best possible. We'll do our people to our
2:43
Speaker 1: best as usual. That is all we can guarantee. So,
2:47
Speaker 1: if you haven't listened before, The Bechtel Cast is a
2:50
Speaker 1: podcast where Caitlin and I for five hundred years now
2:55
Speaker 1: have been analyzing the role and treatment of when men
3:00
Speaker 1: and female characters in famous movies. That's right. We use
3:04
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. It's a
3:07
Speaker 1: media test that requires that two female identifying characters with
3:12
Speaker 1: names speak to each other in the movie that they're
3:15
Speaker 1: in for at least a two line exchange, and they
3:18
Speaker 1: cannot talk about men. No, hard, hard. Yeah, let's see
3:24
Speaker 1: if we can do it. I know right now, Jamie Caitlin,
3:32
Speaker 1: that's it. We did it. Pretty fucking incredible what you
3:37
Speaker 1: can do. So we're covering The Breakfast Club today. Uh,
3:45
Speaker 1: is there anyone who has not seen this movie? Round? Okay?
3:50
Speaker 1: Someone is that writing front? Eager for knowledge? Um, we're
3:57
Speaker 1: talking about how The Breakfast Club kind of sounds like
4:00
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast, right, except we wouldn't let John Hughes
4:07
Speaker 1: anywhere near us. What is your history with the movie, Jamie,
4:13
Speaker 1: Um Judd Nelson made my mom really horny and that's
4:20
Speaker 1: the most And now I saw this movie in high
4:23
Speaker 1: school and I thought it was fine. I saw on college.
4:26
Speaker 1: I thought that was fine, and then I saw it
4:28
Speaker 1: a few days ago, I thought it was fine. I
4:31
Speaker 1: don't like I just I you know, I just John
4:34
Speaker 1: Hughes movies just don't do much for me, even if
4:37
Speaker 1: they're like not promoting rape, Like, it's just not He's
4:43
Speaker 1: just not my not except for uh, some parts of
4:46
Speaker 1: Uncle Buck. Oh sure, I like transplants and automobiles. I
4:51
Speaker 1: think that's my favorite. What is that about. It's well,
4:58
Speaker 1: it's uh Steve Martin and John Candy, So already I'm
5:01
Speaker 1: not passing the Beckel test. They hate each other, they
5:06
Speaker 1: use a lot of modes of transportation. That's pretty much it.
5:10
Speaker 1: That sounds pretty good. I would watch that. So it's
5:15
Speaker 1: just the two of us today. We don't have a
5:16
Speaker 1: it is. Oh, I forgot about my history with the movie. Yeah,
5:20
Speaker 1: we've never done this before our first first episode. My
5:24
Speaker 1: history with the movie is I saw it for the
5:26
Speaker 1: first time in high school. I think one of my
5:28
Speaker 1: like English teachers was like hate kids you. He encouraged
5:36
Speaker 1: us to watch the movie as like an assignment or
5:39
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's something about like we watched it
5:41
Speaker 1: in school or something like that. Uh, and that teacher
5:45
Speaker 1: was later fired. Um, not not for that. He was
5:50
Speaker 1: fired because it was discovered that he was an erotic dancer. Oh, which, look,
5:58
Speaker 1: he should have been fired as a teacher for that.
6:00
Speaker 1: Hold on, this story has taken a turn. I thought
6:03
Speaker 1: you were about to say how he's a molester. It's like, sure,
6:07
Speaker 1: everyone not molester. Okay, see that was that was my track, coach. Uh,
6:14
Speaker 1: but that's that's not fair. That's tough there. This is
6:18
Speaker 1: kind of like a cool old person movie to show
6:21
Speaker 1: young people. They're like, I get it. You want to
6:24
Speaker 1: see Amelia Estevis cry. I get it. Just like, yeah, sure,
6:30
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess he really leveled with me. Should
6:35
Speaker 1: I do the recap? Yeah, let's do the recap. You know,
6:38
Speaker 1: people love a recap. And we don't have a guest,
6:42
Speaker 1: so that means I get to interrupt twice as much.
6:45
Speaker 1: Pretty cool, Pretty cool. The movie opens with glass shattering. No,
6:51
Speaker 1: it opens with a David Bowie quote, and then I'm sorry,
6:56
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, what decade are we in here? Is
6:58
Speaker 1: that like John Hughes or Charlie Brooker. Am I right? Um,
7:04
Speaker 1: it's a black miryor joke. Uh, stop making fun of
7:08
Speaker 1: Charlie Brooker. Computers are actually bad, so yeah, technology actually
7:13
Speaker 1: a little scary. Are you a hacker? Though? Yeah? That
7:18
Speaker 1: show is Charlie Brooker or warning everyone about me? Speaking
7:24
Speaker 1: of hackers though, there is like in the beginning with
7:27
Speaker 1: the montage of all the quick cuts of Like the School,
7:30
Speaker 1: it shows a classroom and one of the signs, there's
7:33
Speaker 1: like a sign hanging up in the classroom that says
7:35
Speaker 1: hackers will be expelled. Has anyone noticed that? Yeah? It's
7:40
Speaker 1: go back okay, opens we meet five students. They have
7:48
Speaker 1: detention for nine hours? Is that normal? Did anyone have
7:52
Speaker 1: anything like this at their school? There? You just have
7:56
Speaker 1: to spend a feature length amount of time with people. No,
8:00
Speaker 1: it's like Lord of the like all the Lord of
8:02
Speaker 1: the Rings movies worth of time. Yeah. I feel like
8:05
Speaker 1: that's asking for someone to get beat up. Like, if
8:08
Speaker 1: you leave five teenagers in a room together for nine hours,
8:12
Speaker 1: someone's going to get hurt. That's just how teens work.
8:16
Speaker 1: So the Fox students with me are Claire, the Princess,
8:21
Speaker 1: Molly Ringwald. She's like the rich popular girl type. We've
8:24
Speaker 1: got Andy Clark, the athlete, that's Amelia Estevez's character. Yeah,
8:29
Speaker 1: he does cry, they all cry. I think Brian A.
8:33
Speaker 1: K the brain name anagram am I right? Andy Michael
8:38
Speaker 1: Hall does not rape anyone in this John Hughes movie.
8:41
Speaker 1: So that's good. You get very different anthem. Actually you
8:47
Speaker 1: kind of get the same character, but a rapist true wild.
8:51
Speaker 1: Alison Reynolds is the basket case. That's Ali. She'd use character.
8:56
Speaker 1: She's not like the other girls. True. And finally Benders
9:03
Speaker 1: the criminal um that's Jen Nelson's character. He's twenty six
9:07
Speaker 1: years old. He's in this movie kissing a sixteen year
9:11
Speaker 1: old Molly Ringwald and just behind the scenes fact that
9:15
Speaker 1: I found freaky, like a lot of male actors choose
9:19
Speaker 1: because they won't get in trouble if they do. Jed
9:22
Speaker 1: Nelson was like, I think I'm gonna go method with
9:24
Speaker 1: this and just bullied Molly Ringwald for the entirety of
9:27
Speaker 1: the movie. He's ten years older than her offset right
9:30
Speaker 1: offset and and John Hughes at one point tried to
9:33
Speaker 1: fire him, and then all the teens were like no.
9:38
Speaker 1: It was if I don't I can't make heads their
9:40
Speaker 1: tails of that, but it's true anytime a man things
9:43
Speaker 1: going method, he just wants to yell at someone like.
9:45
Speaker 1: That's just literally what it is. Also, we talked in
9:50
Speaker 1: the car on the way up here that the members
9:52
Speaker 1: of the Breakfast Club are all also sort of the
9:55
Speaker 1: Spice Girls. Break this down. Okay, Sporty Spice obviously Amelio Estevez,
10:04
Speaker 1: Scary Spice is Jed Nelson. See this is see this
10:09
Speaker 1: is where we don't. Okay, all right, let me make
10:12
Speaker 1: a case for this. Jesus Francisco. We thought that Posh
10:20
Speaker 1: is Molly Ringwald. Can we agree with that baby we
10:24
Speaker 1: said was Anthony Michael because he's innocent and blonde, a
10:31
Speaker 1: flesh colored headed hair person. I'm aware that would make
10:37
Speaker 1: Ginger Alie Sheet's character. And it's not a one to
10:41
Speaker 1: one match, but we've got a solid three out of five.
10:45
Speaker 1: But then also Ginger is Molly like Molly Ringwald is
10:49
Speaker 1: Ginger e based on hair color alone. Sorry to reduce
10:54
Speaker 1: hair a hole here. Anyway, let's move on. We've got
11:01
Speaker 1: Richard Vernon. He's the teacher, is the assistant character. He's
11:05
Speaker 1: the assistant principal who are in there often. I feel
11:09
Speaker 1: like that's like a stock character of like the put
11:11
Speaker 1: Upon assistant principle. Isn't Captain Underpants and assistant principle or
11:17
Speaker 1: was he the principle. I think he was the assistant principal,
11:20
Speaker 1: just the scholarly observation. And he's like this disciplinarian. He's like,
11:26
Speaker 1: you guys can't talk, you can't move, blah blah blah,
11:28
Speaker 1: and I have to write an essay about who they
11:30
Speaker 1: think they are. Then Bender, he's like the tough guy.
11:33
Speaker 1: He's trying to get a rise out of everybody. He's like,
11:36
Speaker 1: you're a nerd and everyone's like, well, you're a jock.
11:39
Speaker 1: And then they're all just hating each other each other
11:42
Speaker 1: labels because teens, but they mostly ignore the quote unquote
11:48
Speaker 1: basket case girl. And then she doesn't talk for most
11:52
Speaker 1: of the movie. Then we see a montage they're doing
11:57
Speaker 1: their stuff, take out the dancing montage. Is this movies
12:00
Speaker 1: thirty five minutes long, a lot of dancing. A shot
12:05
Speaker 1: where Anthony Michael Hall's character is like adjusting his crotch
12:10
Speaker 1: and then like puts his hat on his lap. Are
12:12
Speaker 1: we to believe that her I don't know. I don't
12:18
Speaker 1: I hope not. It's hard to say, hard to say,
12:23
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm so sorry. We can't know. Okay, So, um,
12:29
Speaker 1: it's hard because there's like kind of not a plot,
12:31
Speaker 1: so I don't know how to recap this. They could
12:35
Speaker 1: only afford three rooms to shoot the movie in, so
12:39
Speaker 1: they gotta emote in a lot of different good, fine spaces.
12:44
Speaker 1: I don't know, they're just harassed like that for most
12:49
Speaker 1: of the movie. Affordable names. He launch it some point
12:55
Speaker 1: and then um, there's this conversation where Brian is like,
13:00
Speaker 1: I'm a virgin, but I'm embarrassed to admit it, and
13:02
Speaker 1: then Molly ring well it's like I think virgins are cool.
13:05
Speaker 1: And then everyone's like oh, and everyone's like whoa, and
13:09
Speaker 1: then Jed Nelson's like, what are you guys talking about? Um?
13:13
Speaker 1: You know, A lot of points are brought up. Yea,
13:17
Speaker 1: the Bender character reveals that he's being physically abused at
13:20
Speaker 1: home by his father. We learned different sort of backstories
13:24
Speaker 1: of each of the characters, like Ali Sheitt's character is
13:27
Speaker 1: ignored by her parents, which is why she's eating dog
13:31
Speaker 1: food or something like I saw too much of my
13:35
Speaker 1: solf and I sat too much of myself in her.
13:38
Speaker 1: I was like Okay, so she's like a teenager, but
13:41
Speaker 1: she's She's like, but what do I do? She just
13:43
Speaker 1: if she had access to Mike's Hard lemonade, she would
13:46
Speaker 1: be drinking Mike's Hard. She went, she yeah, I mean
13:49
Speaker 1: she was saying she was drinking vodka. But she she
13:51
Speaker 1: can't even get her hands on an MHL embarrassing, so
13:57
Speaker 1: she eats pixie sticks on sandwiches instead. She's not like
14:01
Speaker 1: the other girls. Everyone. She needs you to know. And
14:05
Speaker 1: then there's a point where they go to Bender's locker
14:10
Speaker 1: to get weed, and then they think and there is
14:14
Speaker 1: homophobic slurs written all over his locker, and then they
14:20
Speaker 1: think they're gonna get caught because they are running around
14:23
Speaker 1: the halls trying to dodge Vernon in a scene that
14:26
Speaker 1: is not unlike Titanic where Jack and Rose are running
14:31
Speaker 1: around the ship. And then they come Billy Zane. What
14:35
Speaker 1: Billy's Zane was in this movie too much? He was
14:39
Speaker 1: busy being in Back to the Future as one of
14:41
Speaker 1: Biff's crony, playing a similar character to the Jen Nelson character.
14:46
Speaker 1: As long as Zane's getting work, Yeah, anyway, I can
14:50
Speaker 1: sleep at night. So there's a gate and they can't
14:54
Speaker 1: go any farther, just like Jack and Rose. So they
14:57
Speaker 1: have to turn around, they have to find another way.
14:58
Speaker 1: And then and then one of the drowns. No spoilers,
15:05
Speaker 1: we won't tell you which character it is, but in
15:08
Speaker 1: the breakfast club, Bender is like, all sacrifice myself, so
15:13
Speaker 1: he goes running around all crazy in the halls and
15:15
Speaker 1: gets caught so that the others don't. Yeah, and then
15:18
Speaker 1: there's also the scene prior to that where the assistant
15:22
Speaker 1: principal verbally abuses Bender and like just it. That's like
15:28
Speaker 1: a tough scene to to unpack. But um, at the beginning,
15:32
Speaker 1: you're not sure why Benders being such a dick to everyone,
15:35
Speaker 1: But as as the movie goes on, you see you
15:37
Speaker 1: start to understand why. So by the time he's flailing
15:40
Speaker 1: around and got the weed, you're like, okay, this is
15:44
Speaker 1: this is like time with me, right yeah. Uh. And
15:48
Speaker 1: then shortly after that, whenever he gets caught by Vernon,
15:52
Speaker 1: he like locks Bender in a closet and then like
15:55
Speaker 1: tries to initiate a physical fight with him, and then
15:57
Speaker 1: we see like him kind of bender back down and
16:00
Speaker 1: not engage. Um, so maybe he's more sensitive than we
16:04
Speaker 1: all think, or maybe his teachers trying to fight him
16:07
Speaker 1: like like an unhinged person, like, hey, everyone at this
16:12
Speaker 1: school likes me. No one will believe me if I
16:15
Speaker 1: fight you. It's like, what are you talking about? Sicko?
16:20
Speaker 1: And then Bender escapes through like the air ducks and
16:23
Speaker 1: gets back into the library very mission impossible, true, and
16:28
Speaker 1: then he hides under a desk because Vernon comes in,
16:32
Speaker 1: and that's when we get the famous and upsetting underwear
16:36
Speaker 1: crotch shot of character. We'll get there, don't you worry.
16:41
Speaker 1: There's and then they're all there. They smoke the weed.
16:45
Speaker 1: There's a million dance. You cannot have an eighties teen
16:51
Speaker 1: movie without Kevin Bacon or Amelia Estevez or someone just
16:58
Speaker 1: dancing for like five minutes straight. Guys, remember when we
17:02
Speaker 1: was cool? Still? This movie brings you back to when
17:06
Speaker 1: we was cool, right, and not for Dad's trying to
17:09
Speaker 1: tell you they get it. And then we get to
17:12
Speaker 1: the scene where they're all sitting around and they're talking
17:17
Speaker 1: about sex. Ever heard of it? Who's horny? Who's not?
17:23
Speaker 1: That's not how it goes. Um, they're like all virgins
17:26
Speaker 1: basically pretty much. Bender's trying to like, he's like he
17:30
Speaker 1: goes back to a berating Claire for a bit. They
17:33
Speaker 1: all talk about, Hey, are we going to be friends
17:35
Speaker 1: after this? And then Claire's like, I'm too popular, just
17:39
Speaker 1: a straight shooter. Yeah, And then um, Brian reveals that
17:44
Speaker 1: he is failing shop class. And then the reason he
17:49
Speaker 1: got detention is that he brought a gun to school
17:52
Speaker 1: with the intention of committing suicide, but with a flair gun,
17:57
Speaker 1: which is played as a joke and it's I don't know,
18:00
Speaker 1: we can talk about that later, but also, yeah, remember
18:04
Speaker 1: the days when you could bring a weapon to school
18:06
Speaker 1: and only get Saturday detention? Like what? Oh goodness? And
18:13
Speaker 1: then Allison's like, I didn't do anything to get detention.
18:17
Speaker 1: I just showed up. But first she says a lot
18:21
Speaker 1: of funked up stuff yes, um, and then yeah, and
18:26
Speaker 1: then her her secret, as it were, whatever is is
18:30
Speaker 1: that she is a compulsive liar. Right, and then they
18:35
Speaker 1: dance again, right, somehow they dance again because recycling shots
18:42
Speaker 1: earlier Justmelio Estevez dancing, and then they danced as a group.
18:47
Speaker 1: That's the video that Alexandria Cacio Cortez was recreating when
18:52
Speaker 1: she was a student at Boston University. Now is a
18:55
Speaker 1: great time to bring up that I do have a
18:57
Speaker 1: master's degree in screen running from Boston University. Thank you.
19:02
Speaker 1: Why would you cheer for that? Unfortunately AOC and I
19:08
Speaker 1: did not overlap at our time at BU, but you know,
19:15
Speaker 1: be you represent. Okay, wow, I'm sorry, Jamie, I also
19:23
Speaker 1: went to college, Thank you so much. Yeah up, guys,
19:29
Speaker 1: it's a fucking scam. Yeah, no one learned. It's a
19:33
Speaker 1: fucking scam. And we're all going to be in debt
19:35
Speaker 1: until we're dead. Please thank you our merch over there,
19:40
Speaker 1: because we are drowning in student learned debt. I took
19:44
Speaker 1: a class on lost in college. I'm just like there
19:48
Speaker 1: and I'm never yeah, and I'm never going to own
19:50
Speaker 1: a home. You know, it's just like sure worth it. Okay.
19:56
Speaker 1: So after the dance where they all dance, Claire gives
19:59
Speaker 1: out us in a makeover because women, right, right, we'll
20:04
Speaker 1: talk about that. And then Claire, for no reason, it seems,
20:10
Speaker 1: goes and kisses Bender on the collar bone. Yeah, I
20:14
Speaker 1: mean because after harassing her for nine consecutive hours, she's
20:18
Speaker 1: decided he's worn her down. You know, really uh, really
20:24
Speaker 1: really male writing going on there. And then Andy, who
20:29
Speaker 1: sees Allison, is like wow, you're pretty, you took your
20:35
Speaker 1: hoodie off. I love you. And then meanwhile, Brian, who
20:41
Speaker 1: has no one to kiss it's forced to do everyone's
20:45
Speaker 1: home work, which honestly is a wild power move that
20:50
Speaker 1: I thought was a little funny because he because they
20:53
Speaker 1: were all like in that moment, I was like, bright,
20:56
Speaker 1: you're seriously falling for this right now, Like he's just
20:59
Speaker 1: They're just like, Iran, you're the smartest side of all
21:01
Speaker 1: of us. What do they know is what he wants
21:03
Speaker 1: to hear? And he's like yeah, so, and they're like,
21:07
Speaker 1: so we were thinking you would do. I'm like, this
21:09
Speaker 1: happens to like dorkey kids in school all the time.
21:12
Speaker 1: They don't fall for that ship. After a while, Brian's
21:15
Speaker 1: too old to be fallen for that trick. Grow up, Brian,
21:19
Speaker 1: don't write everyone's essay, but he does. And he's like,
21:23
Speaker 1: you see us, how you want to see us? Mr Vernon.
21:26
Speaker 1: He kind of goes edge lord on it. He's like,
21:31
Speaker 1: but we're all the criminal and princess and so teach gees.
21:41
Speaker 1: Can you imagine like if you were a person doing
21:44
Speaker 1: their job as someone left you that letter, I would
21:46
Speaker 1: literally be like yeah, fine, and I would throw it
21:49
Speaker 1: away at me, I feel like, yeah, awesome. Uh and
22:01
Speaker 1: then and then they'll leave, and then there are two
22:05
Speaker 1: hetero kisses, and then all fingerless gloves pumps his fist
22:10
Speaker 1: and then we all get to go home. And that's
22:15
Speaker 1: the movie. Is the movie. I had fun with this
22:27
Speaker 1: because I'm not particularly attached to the movie. Um and
22:32
Speaker 1: a lot of it I don't know. I mean, things
22:34
Speaker 1: I appreciate about this movie are that it is a
22:38
Speaker 1: movie that, even though it misfires in a lot of
22:41
Speaker 1: directions and and and when ways we'll talk about it,
22:45
Speaker 1: at least takes teenage characters seriously. And and for the
22:49
Speaker 1: most part we're seeing teenagers like acting out and and
22:54
Speaker 1: you know, often harassing each other and teasing each other.
22:58
Speaker 1: But at very least you get background for everyone in
23:01
Speaker 1: some context. And unlike a lot of other teen movies,
23:05
Speaker 1: it doesn't go the direction of playing the adults in
23:07
Speaker 1: a totally comical way to were like often if it's
23:11
Speaker 1: like a movie directed or marketed at young people, it's
23:15
Speaker 1: like all the teens get it, and the adults are
23:17
Speaker 1: fucking idiots, and they are, but like you at least
23:21
Speaker 1: get background on them as well. And I don't know,
23:24
Speaker 1: everyone felt at least there was a tension given to
23:28
Speaker 1: every character, even if a lot of it was like no,
23:34
Speaker 1: So I appreciated that. Yeah, and I agree. I I
23:38
Speaker 1: don't have any special attachment to this movie either. Again,
23:41
Speaker 1: I'm not like a huge John Hughes fan, but I
23:45
Speaker 1: mean he was doing what no one was really doing
23:49
Speaker 1: at that time. And this is something that um Molly
23:51
Speaker 1: Ringwald brings up in the piece that she wrote for
23:54
Speaker 1: The New Yorker where he kind of revolutionized stories for
23:59
Speaker 1: and about teenagers. So I understand why this is a
24:03
Speaker 1: beloved movie then and still now. And I think that
24:07
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think it does pretty well,
24:10
Speaker 1: and this is kind of mirroring what you were saying, Jamie,
24:12
Speaker 1: but it spends time and attention on each of the character.
24:17
Speaker 1: So you know, we talked about the female characters, and
24:19
Speaker 1: they are although I don't know about the character well,
24:25
Speaker 1: they're underrepresented in this movie in general, because you see
24:29
Speaker 1: the Breakfast Club is male character heavy, and then the
24:33
Speaker 1: other three adults, all three adult characters you see her men,
24:36
Speaker 1: the assistant principal, Carl Cool Janitor, Carl shout out to
24:40
Speaker 1: my freaking boy, and then uh Amelio Estevez is wild
24:47
Speaker 1: and Dad who isn't? Who's Amelia Seves? Is real? Debt
24:51
Speaker 1: isn't some of fam Martin Martin Sheen missed opportunity? What
24:57
Speaker 1: someone is heckling Martin? What's up? President? Dude? Aaron Sorkin
25:03
Speaker 1: was canceled today, Pay attention there, come on there? Uh
25:09
Speaker 1: but Martin she Grayson and Frankie season five, Oh yeah,
25:13
Speaker 1: you might know him from Grayson Frankie. I love that show. Anyways,
25:18
Speaker 1: what were we talking about? Oh? Too many men? That's
25:21
Speaker 1: a note only, but yeah, I mean all three. I
25:26
Speaker 1: think it was like a misstep and to be generous
25:29
Speaker 1: with John Hughes, who does not have a good track record. Uh,
25:33
Speaker 1: and in a lot of respects, making every adult character presented, uh,
25:38
Speaker 1: male character is both weird and also not reflective of
25:43
Speaker 1: the education system. Like it just was like, I don't know,
25:46
Speaker 1: it just seems like a dumb missed opportunity. Yeah. We
25:49
Speaker 1: see Brian's mom very briefly, and I think I don't
25:52
Speaker 1: think we see any other parents, but she's like, study
25:55
Speaker 1: what we see. I mean, we see dad, Amelia's daddy.
25:57
Speaker 1: But in addition to that, on sports dad was yeah
26:00
Speaker 1: that's poor dad. Yeah, And I think with the Molly
26:04
Speaker 1: Ringwald character, like so much attention is focused on her um,
26:09
Speaker 1: which is good for our discussion. But with the basket
26:13
Speaker 1: Case Ali, sheitdy character. She doesn't even say words until
26:18
Speaker 1: like thirty three minutes into the movie or something like that,
26:21
Speaker 1: and then it's like acting vaguely Ferrell like it's it's
26:25
Speaker 1: her character is is confusing, and it's weird because it's
26:29
Speaker 1: like it comes out that she's a compulsive liar, which
26:32
Speaker 1: is played as a joke basically because they're like, oh,
26:36
Speaker 1: everything this, but like if you only have two female
26:38
Speaker 1: characters and at the end you're like, oh, this female
26:40
Speaker 1: character one of the two. Don't listen to a word
26:43
Speaker 1: she fucking says. Not a true word comes out of
26:46
Speaker 1: this lady's mouth like that that's not that she said
26:49
Speaker 1: much to begin with, because then she doesn't speak again
26:52
Speaker 1: until like I think it's fifty nine minutes into the movie.
26:55
Speaker 1: But the things she does say at the end are
26:57
Speaker 1: very dark, Like she says that she has sex with
27:01
Speaker 1: her therapists as an underage girl. Like she says some
27:04
Speaker 1: really dark stuff and and then to like say all
27:07
Speaker 1: that stuff and then just like, oh, I'm a compulsive
27:09
Speaker 1: liar t he and then kiss Semilio Estevez is like,
27:15
Speaker 1: first of all, what and that's like a very nineteen
27:20
Speaker 1: eighties like glazing over of what, like of a discussion
27:24
Speaker 1: of mental illness? Uh, And like a compulsive lying is
27:28
Speaker 1: like a very blanket term that it's clear the writer
27:31
Speaker 1: doesn't understand or has done any research on, and he
27:34
Speaker 1: just kind of uses it ultimately as a way to
27:36
Speaker 1: be like, well, uh, I hope you weren't listening to
27:39
Speaker 1: her because she's nuts, and but we made her pretty,
27:43
Speaker 1: so now she's gonna kiss Martin Sheen's son yep, like,
27:49
Speaker 1: which is a bummer because I love Ali Sheity and
27:51
Speaker 1: that I mean, it's it's weird because I feel like
27:54
Speaker 1: a lot of young women and and you know, older
27:57
Speaker 1: women who see that movie more closely aligned with her
28:02
Speaker 1: than with Claire. But the chasm between those two people
28:06
Speaker 1: is like no one is really either of them. But
28:10
Speaker 1: when I was a teenager, I was like, well, I
28:13
Speaker 1: guess I'm the one eating dog food because no one
28:18
Speaker 1: invites me places, so I guess I'm just so that's
28:26
Speaker 1: not good. Well, because one of the main things about
28:31
Speaker 1: this movie is that we see all these trope characters
28:36
Speaker 1: so we see like the princess character, I like, I
28:39
Speaker 1: guess a basket case was as a trope or like
28:43
Speaker 1: a click or something in the day. But that means
28:46
Speaker 1: you see a representation on screen of women in these
28:49
Speaker 1: very tropy roles. But the whole point of the movie
28:51
Speaker 1: also is to say, hey, you might have this identity
28:55
Speaker 1: to some degree based on like the click you're in
28:58
Speaker 1: or whatever, but you're a multidimensional person that has stuff
29:03
Speaker 1: to offer outside of that, you know, high school identity.
29:06
Speaker 1: And that's like, you know, the theme at the movie.
29:09
Speaker 1: But you still get these characters who I would argue,
29:12
Speaker 1: we don't really get to know well enough or don't
29:16
Speaker 1: have that much nuance as much nuance as the movie
29:19
Speaker 1: wants you to think they have, right, I mean, they're
29:22
Speaker 1: all it's weird because in some ways they're like, oh,
29:25
Speaker 1: all these like high school trope characters are deeper than
29:28
Speaker 1: you think, which the movie does do. But there's still
29:31
Speaker 1: that character like there's still the football guy is is
29:36
Speaker 1: being is footballing too hard? Like you're like okay, or
29:41
Speaker 1: like she's too popular there. It's not really even like
29:47
Speaker 1: subverting that much if you think about it that much,
29:50
Speaker 1: because it's like Molly Ringwald. You know, everyone has issues
29:53
Speaker 1: with their parents, which is brought through in the movie
29:56
Speaker 1: pretty effectively. But it's not like another brilliant feminist text
30:01
Speaker 1: high school musical, where in the show Stoppers stick to
30:06
Speaker 1: the status quo. You find out, Hey, here's someone who's
30:10
Speaker 1: really academic but she loves to dance. And here's a
30:15
Speaker 1: basketball stark Corbin Blue or no, no, it's no, it's
30:18
Speaker 1: Zeke Zeke. He's in basketball but he loves to bake. Like,
30:24
Speaker 1: is that a front character. No, he's not in this number.
30:27
Speaker 1: He's playing basketball. He's busy. But it's all that to
30:34
Speaker 1: say I just got really excited. Um No, But like
30:40
Speaker 1: it's not even that the characters in the Breakfast Club
30:42
Speaker 1: necessarily like contain multitudes and are like They're just like, no,
30:46
Speaker 1: I really am popular and it's not as easy as
30:52
Speaker 1: it looks, and and I have parents. You're just like, Okay, Like,
30:58
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's I is some like posturing. It
31:01
Speaker 1: does that. I don't know. I think sometimes this movie
31:04
Speaker 1: gets credit for work it's not necessarily doing. Yeah. And
31:08
Speaker 1: also if there are five main characters and there's opportunities
31:12
Speaker 1: to see them like interacting on screen in different combinations,
31:16
Speaker 1: you know, like either one on one or there maybe
31:18
Speaker 1: there's three of them. I feel like one of the
31:21
Speaker 1: combinations that gets the least amount of attention in the
31:24
Speaker 1: movie is the Claire Allison relationship. I mean pretty much
31:30
Speaker 1: all of it at the very end of the movie.
31:33
Speaker 1: And I that feels like a like John Hughes doesn't
31:37
Speaker 1: understand how to write teenage girls interacting and transition. I
31:44
Speaker 1: have a little okay, so John, this is like phase
31:47
Speaker 1: two of John Hughes's career at this point where he
31:50
Speaker 1: starts out at a feminist bible called the National Lampoon.
31:59
Speaker 1: While there he writes some of the most offensive stuff
32:03
Speaker 1: I've ever heard, uh For here are two examples I'm
32:08
Speaker 1: able to say out loud, but they're very This and
32:12
Speaker 1: this and this pre dates Breakfast Club and it's not
32:15
Speaker 1: but worth it for context. Some short stories John Hughes
32:19
Speaker 1: thought right off the top of his head. A Dog's
32:22
Speaker 1: Tail has a boy watching his mother turn into a
32:25
Speaker 1: dog yep, against his will. Features and quote ugly fat
32:33
Speaker 1: unquote woman who tries to rape a man at gunpoint
32:37
Speaker 1: in front of the man's wife and parents because she
32:39
Speaker 1: can't have sex otherwise. Ye. Yeah, okay, and then here's
32:46
Speaker 1: the Hues Engagement Guide is an illustrated manual on how
32:50
Speaker 1: to protect yourself against women. It gives examples of women
32:55
Speaker 1: quote bullshitting to not put out unquote, and teaches re
33:00
Speaker 1: eaders how to do a quote quickie pelvic exam unquote,
33:04
Speaker 1: how to detect quote signs of future fat unquote, and
33:09
Speaker 1: how to determine if a woman has ancestors of different
33:13
Speaker 1: races based on what her relatives look like. So, yes, Queen,
33:22
Speaker 1: indeed there and and this, I mean that makes it
33:29
Speaker 1: hard to want to watch anything he does. And and
33:33
Speaker 1: it is weird that you know, like these were written
33:36
Speaker 1: as as recently as within like five to seven years
33:39
Speaker 1: before he started making these serious teen movies, so it's
33:43
Speaker 1: not as surprising at all that he cannot write a
33:46
Speaker 1: competent female character. There's a persona, a John Hies persona
33:50
Speaker 1: that existed product to this that was quite contemptuous of women. Uh.
33:55
Speaker 1: And and it's it is interesting in bizarre that he,
33:59
Speaker 1: you know, a few years on, decides that he is
34:03
Speaker 1: going to be like a voice for teenage girls. Going
34:08
Speaker 1: back to that specific relationship in the movie between Claire
34:12
Speaker 1: and Allison. The only like one on one interaction they
34:15
Speaker 1: have is toward the end, whenever Claire gives Allison a makeover,
34:20
Speaker 1: because according to John Hughes, girls can't talk unless they're
34:25
Speaker 1: putting makeup in each other. Um well, and then prior
34:28
Speaker 1: to that, it's very antagonistic between the two of them,
34:31
Speaker 1: where these two characters have barely spoken the whole movie.
34:34
Speaker 1: They may not have actually spoken to each other at all.
34:37
Speaker 1: Besides in passing before this scene where everyone's talking about
34:40
Speaker 1: sex and Judd Nelson's character, for whatever reason, decides he's gonna,
34:44
Speaker 1: you know, double down on Molly Ringwald's character again, and
34:47
Speaker 1: it's like, why would't you tell me if you're a virgin? What?
34:50
Speaker 1: Because you know, if you ask, it's like being a cop,
34:53
Speaker 1: you have to tell people if you're a virgin. Uh Like.
34:56
Speaker 1: But it's just so he decides to start her asking
35:00
Speaker 1: her again, and for some kind of weird, inexplicable reason,
35:04
Speaker 1: Alison joins in and it's kind of like, no, why
35:07
Speaker 1: w don't you tell him? And and it's it's hard
35:11
Speaker 1: to parse exactly what the intent of that scene is,
35:14
Speaker 1: like over thirty years later, but I think that you're
35:16
Speaker 1: supposed to want to be like you're like, oh, no,
35:20
Speaker 1: she should tell us. It's like, no, no one ever
35:23
Speaker 1: owes any random detention kids, any of your personal information ever,
35:30
Speaker 1: you know, And but it struck me as just like
35:34
Speaker 1: frustrating and annoying that this is the first time we're
35:37
Speaker 1: actually getting an interaction out of these characters, and immediately
35:40
Speaker 1: and kind of in the story, I think, irrationally, Alison
35:44
Speaker 1: just turns on Claire and start harassing her. There's also
35:48
Speaker 1: another small example within the same scene where Allison comes
35:51
Speaker 1: to Claire's defense and she's like, actually, don't bother her.
35:55
Speaker 1: But it's just so all over the place that you're
35:57
Speaker 1: just like, why, like because one of the first she
36:00
Speaker 1: says is it's a double edged sword. If you haven't
36:04
Speaker 1: had sex, you're approved. If you have, you're a slut,
36:07
Speaker 1: which she's commenting on a very real double standard for
36:11
Speaker 1: women and when they've had sex. But then she says,
36:16
Speaker 1: you know you want to, but you can't, and then
36:18
Speaker 1: you're a tease, right, You're like several times, well, I
36:22
Speaker 1: think she's still like making some sort of commentary there,
36:25
Speaker 1: but it's weird that she does that right after she
36:27
Speaker 1: like dunks on Molly Ringwald for bullying her into you know,
36:32
Speaker 1: saying it when way or the other, and it's just
36:35
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I think this movie thinks that
36:38
Speaker 1: if anyone asks you if you're a virgin, you're legally
36:41
Speaker 1: required to tell them, because people are treating Molly Ringwald
36:45
Speaker 1: like she is breaking the law by by not disclosing. Um.
36:52
Speaker 1: That transitions pretty well into a short scene earlier in
36:56
Speaker 1: the movie where UM Anthony Michael Hall's character Brian uh
37:02
Speaker 1: is being harassed by Jed Nelson, which is se the
37:05
Speaker 1: movie UM, but he's being harassed and John Nelson like
37:10
Speaker 1: his movie is like Your Virgin, which is pretty true
37:13
Speaker 1: to high school. But he's you know, teasing Brian, calling
37:16
Speaker 1: him a virgin. Brian was like, I'm not a virgin.
37:19
Speaker 1: I've laid lots of times, and you're like, yikes, dead
37:25
Speaker 1: giveaway dude there. But then he starts to lie, which
37:29
Speaker 1: also feels like I don't know, at least based on
37:31
Speaker 1: like people I knew in high school. That's a pretty
37:33
Speaker 1: authentic experience of guy's being like, no I have it
37:36
Speaker 1: says all that time, and then Jed Nelson's like who,
37:39
Speaker 1: and then he like gestures at Molly Ringwald's like her,
37:45
Speaker 1: and then Judd. Nelson's like, Molly Ringwald, you fucked this guy,
37:48
Speaker 1: and and so this could be a very troubling scene.
37:55
Speaker 1: The reason it works pretty well for me is that
38:00
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, Molly Ringwald finds out immediately,
38:03
Speaker 1: she's right there, and she's like no, and then you know,
38:07
Speaker 1: like calls him out on it, like don't do that,
38:09
Speaker 1: and he apologizes. He's like being a virginal loser. And
38:13
Speaker 1: then she says what you said earlier, like being a
38:15
Speaker 1: virgin is actually awesome, and then see yes, yes, and
38:21
Speaker 1: then you know there are two virgins and a Judd. Yeah,
38:26
Speaker 1: I don't know. That scene worked for me way better
38:29
Speaker 1: than all the times they're just piling on my Molly
38:33
Speaker 1: Ringwald to make her say something one one way or
38:35
Speaker 1: the other. And it's not just that, I mean, it's
38:38
Speaker 1: the Jen Nelson character, Fingerless Gloves. Uh. He's a counterculture
38:44
Speaker 1: everyone he's uh. He spends almost the entire movie either
38:49
Speaker 1: sexually harassing her by saying things like, hey, let's lock
38:53
Speaker 1: the doors so we can impregnate the prom queen, which yeah,
38:58
Speaker 1: that is a threat. He asks Andy, He's like, hey,
39:02
Speaker 1: did you give her the hot beef injection? I think
39:05
Speaker 1: is the line and then you're like, oh, yeah, a
39:08
Speaker 1: forty year old man thought of that from or like
39:14
Speaker 1: the skirt scene where he sees her it was under
39:18
Speaker 1: the desk. Let's give some context for that. Yes, so
39:21
Speaker 1: he's hiding under the desk. The Bender character is because
39:25
Speaker 1: he can't be seen by Vernon. As he's under there,
39:29
Speaker 1: he sees Claire's underwear. So this was a scene that
39:34
Speaker 1: that's not Molly Ringwald in that scene. Legally it could
39:38
Speaker 1: not be Molly Ringwald in that scene. But in the
39:42
Speaker 1: in the New Yorker essay from last year, they were
39:44
Speaker 1: referencing earlier because Molly Ringwald is like sixteen seventeen when
39:48
Speaker 1: this is film, So her mom is talking with John
39:51
Speaker 1: Hughes almost as much as she is. And there was
39:55
Speaker 1: one plot point involving a naked female gym teacher that
39:58
Speaker 1: they talked him out of in Eluding because it was
40:00
Speaker 1: just perverted and weird. But they could not talk him
40:04
Speaker 1: out of the underwear scene, and that was something that
40:06
Speaker 1: Molly Ringwald's mom was like really frustrated and upset about,
40:10
Speaker 1: and like John Hughes would not back down on it,
40:13
Speaker 1: and so they had to hire a body double to
40:15
Speaker 1: come in and be you know, the skirt. Yeah, and um,
40:22
Speaker 1: so that is why that scene is there. It's just
40:24
Speaker 1: like that. That is such like a classic example of
40:27
Speaker 1: like here are two women telling you this is not okay,
40:30
Speaker 1: and he's like, I'll hire someone else, and you know,
40:34
Speaker 1: just like flexes on them in this very gross way,
40:38
Speaker 1: like if if it's also like safe to say, if
40:42
Speaker 1: the actor you hired cannot legally do it, probably don't
40:47
Speaker 1: do it. And is a great indication, especially if the
40:50
Speaker 1: actor opposite them is twenty six years old. It's like,
40:54
Speaker 1: what are you gross? Yeah, and then we're meant to
40:57
Speaker 1: I think. So he sees her underwear and then we
41:01
Speaker 1: see him move his face closer into her crutch area,
41:07
Speaker 1: and then she yelps, so we see her and frame
41:11
Speaker 1: rather than him then and she like yelps and then
41:14
Speaker 1: hard to say what exactly happens, but I think we
41:16
Speaker 1: can easily see virgin he doesn't know what happens. He
41:20
Speaker 1: doesn't know, but basically the Bender character assaults her. Yeah,
41:25
Speaker 1: and then the reaction is immediately afterwards her like smacking
41:29
Speaker 1: him several times on the back, and then that doesn't
41:33
Speaker 1: get brought up. I mean that just still make out
41:36
Speaker 1: at the end and she gives him a diamond. God,
41:41
Speaker 1: if every man that assaulted you you had to give
41:43
Speaker 1: a diamond, it's for fucking God. John Hughes is disgusting.
41:49
Speaker 1: Opposite of what happens in Titanic with the Billies, it's Um,
42:03
Speaker 1: I mean the rundown of of what Bender's character says
42:06
Speaker 1: to Claire is like, I mean it really there's a
42:10
Speaker 1: lot of anti queeristlurs thrown up throughout this movie from
42:16
Speaker 1: all characters. So you know that John Hughes just thinks
42:19
Speaker 1: it's Jill. There's uh one speech like monologue that Bender
42:25
Speaker 1: delivers to Claire's that is like fat shaming her in
42:29
Speaker 1: the future, Yeah, which is just you're insane. Uh. He's
42:35
Speaker 1: arousing her, asking if she's a virgin all the time,
42:37
Speaker 1: He's making comments about how she couldn't you know, get
42:40
Speaker 1: away from him if she wanted to, she can't resist him,
42:43
Speaker 1: all this stuff. He screams you are a bitch at
42:47
Speaker 1: her loudly. Um. At one point he kinda he makes
42:52
Speaker 1: fun of Andy, who is a wrestler. He's like, oh,
42:55
Speaker 1: I just admire any guy who rolls around on the
42:58
Speaker 1: floor with another guy, and like the implication that is,
43:01
Speaker 1: it's he's saying something homophobias. Yeah, so Bender maybe not
43:06
Speaker 1: a good guy, and yet for reasons that are very
43:11
Speaker 1: uncleared to at least me, she goes into the broom
43:15
Speaker 1: closet that he is locked into because he was misbehaving
43:18
Speaker 1: so badly, get a hickey and a diet. So, I mean,
43:24
Speaker 1: but this is something we see again and again where
43:27
Speaker 1: I mean, and he's not even wearing her down in
43:29
Speaker 1: a way that movies usually do it where it's like,
43:32
Speaker 1: please go out with me, please, please please. He's just
43:34
Speaker 1: like you're a fucking big ramping it up the whole movie.
43:39
Speaker 1: And then it's like after he assaults her that she's like,
43:42
Speaker 1: I'm going to give him a chance. Like it's just
43:44
Speaker 1: not it's totally nonsensical the way that happens, and it's like,
43:49
Speaker 1: at least that's very clear to people now, but it's
43:52
Speaker 1: just like it's crazy. I mean. And that's not to
43:55
Speaker 1: say that there isn't more context in layers to the
43:57
Speaker 1: Bender character, because there is, and there's like a lot
44:00
Speaker 1: of time devoted to his background and coming from an
44:05
Speaker 1: abusive household. That scene we were referencing with him and
44:07
Speaker 1: the assistant Principle, who is basically the whole time saying
44:12
Speaker 1: that he can be abusive. You know, he's another like
44:16
Speaker 1: abusive paternal figure in Bender's life, and he's allowed to
44:18
Speaker 1: do that because Bender is poor invendors from an abusive household,
44:22
Speaker 1: and no one will believe him if he says anything
44:24
Speaker 1: which is I mean like powerful stuff and and like
44:29
Speaker 1: I was affected by it, especially in that scene where
44:32
Speaker 1: the assistant principles like fight me and was just classic.
44:36
Speaker 1: But but before that that bizarre initiation, he's saying a
44:42
Speaker 1: lot of horrible stuff that like is recognizable of like, uh,
44:47
Speaker 1: an abusive paternal figure. So it's like even more of
44:51
Speaker 1: a bummer if you get that side of effective storytelling.
44:54
Speaker 1: But then you know you're also setting the standard of
44:57
Speaker 1: you have incredible empathy for the scare or who is
45:01
Speaker 1: verbally abusing one of the only females you get to
45:04
Speaker 1: see on screen for the entire time, and that's not
45:07
Speaker 1: really reflected as something that's not okay to do. So
45:10
Speaker 1: it's even like more of a bummer of like, by
45:13
Speaker 1: the end of the movie, it's hard not to like
45:15
Speaker 1: love him in some way or have a lot of
45:18
Speaker 1: empathy for him while he's doing these horrible things that
45:22
Speaker 1: are not really treated as horrible, so its once again, God,
45:29
Speaker 1: damn it, damn it. And then the while the other
45:32
Speaker 1: hetero romance that ends up playing out is a direct
45:36
Speaker 1: result of a makeover scene, which is when Claire is
45:42
Speaker 1: putting the makeup on Allison and the only again, the
45:45
Speaker 1: only thing that they have together one on one, and
45:47
Speaker 1: then she says something like, you look a lot better
45:49
Speaker 1: with all that black shit under your eyes, and then
45:52
Speaker 1: the hot topic managers of the world shot themselves, and
45:59
Speaker 1: then she completely changes the way Alison looks, and I guess,
46:05
Speaker 1: did Claire just bring a whole other outfit to score
46:08
Speaker 1: it to give to her, not even a cute outfit
46:12
Speaker 1: by the way, it well, yeah, because she's got like
46:16
Speaker 1: a flower in her hair, her makeup is more traditional,
46:21
Speaker 1: she's wearing pastel pink, and then Andy sees her and
46:26
Speaker 1: he's like so basically, so she's only attractive to Andy
46:42
Speaker 1: once she changes everything about her appearance, and it doesn't
46:46
Speaker 1: occur to him that she is attractive until she's adhering
46:50
Speaker 1: to like this more conventional feminine standard of beauty, right,
46:54
Speaker 1: which was the you know, part of the projected point
46:57
Speaker 1: of her character. Was to subvert that, but clearly John
47:00
Speaker 1: and he uses a lawless motherfucker, and it actually doesn't
47:04
Speaker 1: have much of a vested interest of subverting much of anything.
47:12
Speaker 1: So one other point I wanted to hit on for
47:15
Speaker 1: the Brian character, who we don't really get to know before.
47:18
Speaker 1: They're like, hey, door, homework Dorc and he's like, okay,
47:23
Speaker 1: he writes like chitty lyrics or whatever, but he's characterized
47:28
Speaker 1: very late in the story and he says that, yeah,
47:31
Speaker 1: he was going to kill himself with a with a
47:33
Speaker 1: flare gun. It's just worth saying. Um. It's like a
47:36
Speaker 1: very bizarre, reductive way to treat any suicidality or or
47:41
Speaker 1: anything like that. And it almost feels like an afterthought
47:45
Speaker 1: in the story of like, oh shit, Anthony Michael Hall's here,
47:49
Speaker 1: what what would he have done? He already raped someone
47:52
Speaker 1: in the last movie, I don't know what to do
47:54
Speaker 1: with him in this one. Um, And then they sort
47:57
Speaker 1: of just I mean, and it's it's weird because it
48:00
Speaker 1: could be an effective plot point that was thoughtfully told,
48:04
Speaker 1: but he says it in like three sentences sort of,
48:07
Speaker 1: and then everyone is sort of like that's stupid, and
48:12
Speaker 1: he's like, you're right, and so you're just like, oh,
48:16
Speaker 1: so he's cured of suicidal thoughts and tendencies. Pretty sure,
48:21
Speaker 1: that's not how that works. But and then and then
48:23
Speaker 1: and then right after he's like, you know, I recently
48:27
Speaker 1: almost killed myself through like t he he do our homework. Yeah,
48:32
Speaker 1: so it's I mean, it's one of many things that
48:36
Speaker 1: it is not handled well in the movie nic it's not. Um,
48:41
Speaker 1: I guess uh. The last thing I have is just
48:44
Speaker 1: going checking out some of the smaller ring waltz. Yeah,
48:48
Speaker 1: she wrote the piece last year that we thought was
48:52
Speaker 1: like a really thoughtful look at the body of work
48:56
Speaker 1: that made her famous. Highly recommend checking it out. I
49:00
Speaker 1: like to think she wrote it between scenes of Riverdale
49:03
Speaker 1: being shot, but we don't know the circumstances. But let's
49:08
Speaker 1: say canonically it was between of Riverdale. Are there any
49:12
Speaker 1: particular passages you wanted to to point out or um,
49:16
Speaker 1: let's see, I already kind of paraphrased a few of them,
49:20
Speaker 1: so if you wanna take a crack at any of yours. Well, basically,
49:23
Speaker 1: she runs through a lot of stuff we were talking
49:25
Speaker 1: about today, and just like at the time when she
49:27
Speaker 1: was sixteen seventeen, shooting these movies she didn't recognize and
49:31
Speaker 1: hadn't been conditioned to recognize the elements of rape culture
49:34
Speaker 1: and other things that appear in these movies, aside from
49:37
Speaker 1: the things that she did notice and pointed out. And
49:39
Speaker 1: sometimes we're ignored and sometimes weren't ignored, and she gives
49:42
Speaker 1: a few examples of those. Um. She also gives a
49:46
Speaker 1: great anecdote talking with the women from sixteen Candles, who
49:50
Speaker 1: it's implied that Anthony Michael Hall's character rapes, and how
49:55
Speaker 1: they like got lunched together and Molly Greenwell was like,
49:58
Speaker 1: do you think this was fucked up? And the lady
50:00
Speaker 1: was like, honestly, you never thought about it. And then
50:04
Speaker 1: like three hours later, the actress who played that part,
50:07
Speaker 1: uh emails her back and it's like, oh my god,
50:11
Speaker 1: that was incredibly fucked up. And so it was just
50:14
Speaker 1: like a really interesting piece on um, you know, just
50:18
Speaker 1: sort of what we're trying to do is just uh,
50:21
Speaker 1: you know, reflect on stuff without you know, totally disowning
50:24
Speaker 1: it as a body of work, but just you know,
50:26
Speaker 1: viewing it more thoughtfully and critically. I just wanted to
50:28
Speaker 1: read the thing. She says that the how she sort
50:31
Speaker 1: of closes the piece out she says, quote, how are
50:36
Speaker 1: we meant to feel about art that we both love
50:38
Speaker 1: and oppose? What if we're in the unusual position of
50:41
Speaker 1: having helped create it? Erasing history is a dangerous road
50:44
Speaker 1: when it comes to art. Changes essential, but so too
50:47
Speaker 1: is remembering the past in all of its transgression and barbarism,
50:51
Speaker 1: so that we may properly gauge how far we have
50:54
Speaker 1: come and also how far we still need to go,
50:56
Speaker 1: which I thought was just nice. That is, Yeah, that's
50:58
Speaker 1: like kind of like the fasis of the Becktel cast.
51:01
Speaker 1: And then and then Cole Sprouts leans into the room.
51:05
Speaker 1: He's like, we're shooting river Dale Hover and then she
51:11
Speaker 1: had to go. But up till that it was a
51:14
Speaker 1: great essay. Um, I will say this is one of
51:20
Speaker 1: a few teen movies that doesn't end in a prom
51:25
Speaker 1: or doesn't have some sort of prom affiliated with it.
51:28
Speaker 1: I honestly think that if he had had the budget
51:30
Speaker 1: he would have he probably would have prom is that
51:35
Speaker 1: night and they've spent nine hours and detentions and they're like,
51:38
Speaker 1: we're tired, but I guess we'll go to prom alright, Yeah,
51:43
Speaker 1: I mean, and we're almost a time or two Caitlin, Yeah,
51:48
Speaker 1: does this movie pass the Bechdel test. I am gonna
51:51
Speaker 1: say yes, I know, because speak your cake. Well, okay,
52:00
Speaker 1: this one is worth kind of debating because Allison says
52:04
Speaker 1: I'll do anything sexual and I don't need a million
52:06
Speaker 1: dollars to do it. I mean, we can all relate. Um.
52:10
Speaker 1: Sorry that that was erasing a sexual people, so I'm
52:16
Speaker 1: sorry to do that. Claire says, you're lying, and then
52:20
Speaker 1: Allison says, I already have. I've done just about everything
52:23
Speaker 1: there is except a few things that are illegal. Again,
52:26
Speaker 1: we can all relate, um. And then she says I'm
52:29
Speaker 1: an infomaniac. But isn't she implying hetero sexual? Yeah, exactly,
52:34
Speaker 1: So I don't think that counts. That one is probably
52:36
Speaker 1: a note. But then Claire Allison talk about makeup and
52:40
Speaker 1: they say, don't stick me, don't stick that in my eye,
52:45
Speaker 1: and Claire says, you know, you look a lot better
52:47
Speaker 1: with all that without all that black shit around your eye,
52:50
Speaker 1: and then Allison says, hey, I like that black shit,
52:54
Speaker 1: and then Claire says this looks a lot better. And
52:57
Speaker 1: then she's like, why you being so nice to me?
52:59
Speaker 1: Because you're letting the end of that conversation tragically that
53:04
Speaker 1: does that is the past is the past. But again
53:08
Speaker 1: it's two women talking about confined Yes, it's very hyper
53:14
Speaker 1: feminine things, so that is a yes. Um, well, John
53:20
Speaker 1: uses a feminist icon. I take that. H I feel
53:25
Speaker 1: a little fucking stupid he was saying all those things
53:28
Speaker 1: about him. All right, shall shall we read it on
53:32
Speaker 1: our nipple scale? Yes we should. Let's do it there.
53:41
Speaker 1: If you're not familiar our nipple scale, we use a
53:44
Speaker 1: scale zero to five nipples, and we read it based
53:47
Speaker 1: on its portrayal and representation of women. This one's kind
53:50
Speaker 1: of tricky for me because it is an earlier example
53:55
Speaker 1: of seeing teen women on screen who are not the
54:00
Speaker 1: way that they were portrayed in movies like Porkis and
54:03
Speaker 1: Revenge of the Nerds and like, really awful, how dare
54:11
Speaker 1: they make a movie called Porky? So we're seeing more
54:16
Speaker 1: nuanced depictions of teen girls, but again I would argue,
54:22
Speaker 1: not as nuanced as the movie wants you to think.
54:24
Speaker 1: They're still fairly trophy and we do get to know them,
54:28
Speaker 1: and these characters, especially the Molly Ringwald character, is more
54:32
Speaker 1: developed of a character than we had seen in a
54:35
Speaker 1: teen girl kind of up until that point. But the
54:38
Speaker 1: way that she is treated, especially by the Jed Nelson character,
54:43
Speaker 1: and then forced into a heatero kiss with him. The
54:49
Speaker 1: movie forcing her because she is the one who goes
54:51
Speaker 1: and kisses him. Why did you do that? He threatened
54:55
Speaker 1: to rape you nine hours ago and then he did so, right,
55:00
Speaker 1: It's just so there's a lot of missteps like that.
55:04
Speaker 1: Worth noting that this is an extremely white movie. In fact,
55:07
Speaker 1: I mean it's all yeah and all of John Hughes
55:12
Speaker 1: movies except for the long ducktong character and sixteen Candles,
55:17
Speaker 1: which so sorry, you're right, he's a representation. Um yeah,
55:23
Speaker 1: So I think I know this is a beloved movie.
55:26
Speaker 1: I know it explores themes that still resonate with us today,
55:31
Speaker 1: but I think it is very obviously a nine five
55:37
Speaker 1: eight four Oh right, okay for some reason, yes, movies
55:47
Speaker 1: in eighty five. Who knows why. I'm gonna give it
55:52
Speaker 1: one and a half? Okay, is that wrong? I hate
55:59
Speaker 1: during this at live shows because I'm like, I'm she said, what,
56:09
Speaker 1: thank you? Thank you so much? Are you giving the
56:15
Speaker 1: nips to? I'm gonna give one to Molly Ringwald. I'm
56:20
Speaker 1: gonna throw my half nipple to Anthony Michael Hall as
56:25
Speaker 1: unexpected of a twist that I'm upset with that I know,
56:33
Speaker 1: I don't know why I've been dating. I'm gonna give
56:36
Speaker 1: it a half nipple because women are there, which not
56:45
Speaker 1: all movies get to. Um, I don't know. I don't
56:49
Speaker 1: think that this movie, or John Hughes' entire body of
56:52
Speaker 1: work is like as subversive as people make it out
56:57
Speaker 1: to be. And it might be partially because I'm not
57:00
Speaker 1: attached to it and was never really a fan of it.
57:02
Speaker 1: But I just, you know, you learn about I like
57:05
Speaker 1: you learn about Molly Ringwald's character, but that doesn't mean
57:08
Speaker 1: that her character isn't totally sold out by the writer
57:11
Speaker 1: by the end of the movie. And you don't really
57:13
Speaker 1: learn anything about Ali Sheedy's character, and she's also sold
57:17
Speaker 1: out by the end of the movie. And so it's
57:19
Speaker 1: really I mean, I guess, you know, it's like the
57:22
Speaker 1: two female characters I thought were made by the writer
57:26
Speaker 1: to act very irrationally at the end of the movie
57:28
Speaker 1: in a way that in the first hour plus of
57:30
Speaker 1: the movie you would not expect them to act based
57:33
Speaker 1: on like a strong foundation, and then at the end
57:36
Speaker 1: they're just like, no, you gotta you gotta have a kiss, like,
57:39
Speaker 1: so I feel for for both of those characters that
57:42
Speaker 1: like had some promise in them. We're kind of sold out.
57:44
Speaker 1: And I also feel for Anthony Michael Hall because he
57:47
Speaker 1: had to do everyone's homework and that's not cool. Have
57:51
Speaker 1: a nipple and I'm giving it to the janitor. Hell yeah,
57:56
Speaker 1: who it's hot and it was and who? And not
58:03
Speaker 1: in confident? Well, the because the quick montage at the
58:07
Speaker 1: very beginning in which you do see the hacker hackers
58:11
Speaker 1: will be expelled the frame. There's another shot where it's
58:16
Speaker 1: like men gross, but one of them is like man
58:21
Speaker 1: of the Year. There's like a photo and it's a
58:23
Speaker 1: photo of Carl. He was Man of the Year when
58:25
Speaker 1: he was in high school. I love Carl. We didn't
58:28
Speaker 1: get to talk about Carl, but Carl is one of
58:31
Speaker 1: the most fully realized characters in the movie. When everyone's
58:35
Speaker 1: trying to be like, you're a janitor, He's like, fuck you,
58:38
Speaker 1: I'm a janitor And I was like, yeah, Carl, you
58:41
Speaker 1: fuck He fucking rules. He dunks on everyone. He just
58:45
Speaker 1: like anyone who talks back to Carl, He's like, you
58:48
Speaker 1: can't touch me. I'm I'm the most confident man alive.
58:52
Speaker 1: Like he goes home and has sex every day like
58:57
Speaker 1: he's man of there and my book beautiful. Thank you, Well,
59:07
Speaker 1: that's our show. Thanks for coming, Thank you for coming.
59:16
Speaker 1: All right? That was that. That was the episode. It
59:19
Speaker 1: was so much fun. We wanted to thank everyone who
59:21
Speaker 1: came to the San Francisco show. The turnout was way
59:24
Speaker 1: more than we were expecting for fifty people and a
59:28
Speaker 1: venue that was not necessarily supposed to hold that many people,
59:32
Speaker 1: which was so great. And speaking of the venue, thanks
59:34
Speaker 1: for having us. We were at Piano Fight so it's
59:37
Speaker 1: part of the San Francisco Sketch Festival, So shouts out
59:40
Speaker 1: to Sketch Fest for having us. Shouts out to Piano
59:43
Speaker 1: Fight for for having us there. Um, thank you so
59:47
Speaker 1: much to our friend friend of the cast, Sammy Junio
59:51
Speaker 1: for recording the show for us, for being our road
59:53
Speaker 1: dog for that whole tory. You'll be hearing a lot
59:55
Speaker 1: about them in the next couple of weeks as we
59:56
Speaker 1: released these episodes. Indeed, and also big thanks to our
1:00:00
Speaker 1: friend Catherine Leon who was at the show and was
1:00:03
Speaker 1: helping us sell merch and just like stay organized and stuff.
1:00:07
Speaker 1: So big thanks to Catherine. Thanks friends. Also big thanks
1:00:12
Speaker 1: to anyone who bought merch at that show. Yeah, that
1:00:14
Speaker 1: helped us out a lot. Yeah. We'll be back in
1:00:17
Speaker 1: San Francisco sometime soon soon. Yeah. And as for you
1:00:22
Speaker 1: listening person, wherever you are, we'll see you next week,
1:00:25
Speaker 1: See you next week. Bye,