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Unlocking Leadership Potential: Amy Kemp on Habit Finder and Authentic Connection · Authentic Living

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Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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about things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
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Hi everyone, it's Roxanne Durhoch.
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Thanks for tuning in again today.
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Today I have a special guest, Amy Kemp.
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So Amy is a habit finder coach, which I loved.
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I told her that I loved that concept because it really drills down into a part of what most of
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us think about, but something that really speaks directly to a space that most of us are
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probably continually trying to enhance.
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So Amy, tell us a little bit about a little bit more about you and kind of the work that you do
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with businesses and leaders.
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I would love to, and thank you for having me.
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I get to do this work that I consider to be sacred.
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It is a work of holding space for people who make decisions that impact a
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lot of
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people.
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The tool that I use, like if I had a little toolbox, one of the main tools that I use in
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this work in one on one settings or small group settings is this tool called the Habit Finder.
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It's an assessment that takes like five or ten minutes to take, but it basically gives me kind
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of a picture of where your brain is at risk of falling into certain patterns of thinking
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around connecting with people or around handling conflict or around being able to dream
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or set goals for the future and these, or to embrace structures that will allow your
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business or your life to be more rich and full.
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In any case, tool provides just some real conversation around the things that actually
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hold people back from getting what they want in their world.
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Did you create this tool, Amy, or is it a combination of different assessments?
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No, I did not create it at all.
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It's actually based on the science of axiology and there is the Habit Finder company also.
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They generated the tool and run it and use it and all of that.
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But when I think of it, you know the children's game called chutes and ladders, I think of our
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brain sometimes like that where when you land on a certain space, you are at very high risk
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of sliding down the slide and heading right back to where you started.
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It's Kind of how it feels.
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It doesn't mean that you always do, but it means that you are at high risk.
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So, as an example, I'll give you a simple common example that I see happen a lot.
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There are certain habits of thinking that are what we call systemic, all or nothing, black or
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white, right or wrong.
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And then there are others that are more nuanced and relational.
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Interestingly, when you use systemic thinking or habits of thinking in relational spaces, it
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tends to create destruction and relationships are destroyed when we bring those habits of
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thinking into relationships versus using them to run processes.
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But one of these habits of thinking says in your brain, either I'm going to address this
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inappropriate or unacceptable or just below the standard performance.
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And it's going to create a huge blow up, a huge problem, a huge disaster for my business or my
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family.
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That's one option.
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Or I don't address it at all and I'm just going to have to let it happen.
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So, that's an example of using a systemic thought in a relational space.
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It's much more nuanced than that and the outcome doesn't have to be eitheror.
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There's a way to move in a new habit where you're addressing things with clarity and
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accuracy and actually making the relationship better in the long run.
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So that's interesting.
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I've never heard systemic interrelational.
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So that's interesting.
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So very all or nothing, black or white, rigid ways of making decisions and relational really,
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like you're saying.
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We're always fluid, right?
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We're having to move.
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We're having to kind of assess.
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Like some days maybe you're a little bit more on the ball and some days you're not as on the
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ball.
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So it's kind of trying to find that where do I fit on that continuum?
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Am I more rigid?
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Potentially maybe around certain types of business, might find certain systems that you
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have to be.
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If you're an air traffic controller or somebody that's in a Skyrise building that's doing specs
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that can't be off by a millimeter, that's different to, say, somebody that's more on the
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maybe health and wellness or customer service.
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So it's different ends of the continuum, but need, like you said, sometimes to look at it
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from both angles.
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Is that how
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Yeah, and systemic thinking is not bad, just as in your example.
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I want my brain surgeon to be very systemic.
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I want her to be right.
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You don't want her to say, How am I feeling today?
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Amy's gone.
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We don't want that.
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We want her to come and she's ready, right?
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And she's pointed and she knows exactly what she's going to do.
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Good point.
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And that being said, the customer service rep still needs to fill out reports and do things
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that are systemic in his or her role on a day to day basis.
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The problem is when we use that systemic way of thinking in a relational space.
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So, I will use systemic thinking to check things off of a list.
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I need to get this report done.
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I've got to get information to my accountant for my taxes.
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Like, those are all systemic processes.
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I do need to allow time then before I'm stepping into a client conversation that's very
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nuanced, where I'm holding space and listening, not trying to fix that person or to get
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something done with my agenda or to be right.
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In that space, I'm just there to be curious and to listen and to observe and to ask questions
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and to be empathetic.
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Sometimes I just think of it like when I had babies, my kids are pretty grown right now, but
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it was so jarring to me always to go from work to home with a baby.
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It's that kind of a feeling where you're moving from a very systemic, I'm getting things done
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and this feels good for progress.
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And then all of a sudden, it's just very circular.
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There's no I'm
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not gonna do that.
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No.
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Or I'm not gonna play along, and I'm gonna have it you know, it's like I often say that when I
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work with senior leaders, say it's almost like the 10 the 38,000 foot drop as you descend in a
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plane.
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It's in a way I talk about the deceleration that they have to take, which is what you're
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talking about to go from very tactical, process oriented, system driven businesses and they're
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entering the front door and you have, like you said, a couple of kids and they're all in
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different stages and they haven't seen you and their lives are more the most important.
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And now you're a parent and you haven't shored up to what tools you need for this environment
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because you really haven't mentally left the other one.
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Absolutely.
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Yes.
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And if you bring that CEO energy into that very different space, you destroy relationships many
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times and a lot of times inadvertently.
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I think most people are doing the best they can, but it's that level of awareness of kind
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of shifting gears.
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But I also think a lot of producers in businesses get promoted, and then they're at
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that point doing a lot more people development, a lot more holding space for people, a lot more
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asking questions than like fixing, solving, doing.
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And that's the same dynamic that's happening there is shifting back and forth from systemic
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to relational spaces.
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What's one of the biggest blocks?
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This may be an unfair question, but I'm kind of thinking, is there like a personality type that
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you find that finds it harder to make that shift over?
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And are there some that is you kind of think, oh, they can do it a little bit easier?
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Is it an age demographic?
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Is it a gender thing?
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If I knew the answer to this, I would be a bajillionaire.
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I do agree, though, that there are certain jobs, for example, like a group of engineers,
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those places tend to be more difficult to navigate relationally.
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And I think it's just natural genius of being really good at those specific things.
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But I also think a lot of times, like I have a good friend who leads a bunch of accountants,
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and he will say, I'm not really the best accountant.
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Like, I know enough to be dangerous, really what I know is how to lead people.
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And these are just people.
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Just because someone is a strong fill in the blank, does that mean they would be a great
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leader question?
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Right?
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Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
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I do think there's a level of humility, willingness to learn and to shift gears.
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I did this moving from being like a top salesperson to leading salespeople.
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There was a year.
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There was a year of bumps and bruises maybe a And just
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frustration, just a, why are they just not doing it?
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I just had no idea what I was doing.
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And so there was, thankfully, I had mentors.
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I had coaches that came alongside me and that really partnered with me to help teach me that
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skill.
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And it was a different way.
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I think like you're riding a bike and you're going really, really fast in a certain gear.
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When you become a leader where you're developing people, it's almost like you shift
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to a gear where you're doing fewer revolutions of your feet.
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You're traveling further, but like you are slower.
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There is a lot different energy about it.
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I love that analogy because it's so true, right?
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Because if you're a tactical driven producer that's accustomed to getting things done and
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then you get promoted because which is great.
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And then all of sudden you're leaving a team of 20 and now you're trying to get them to
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achieve, but you're going back to potentially what you know worked for you and not seeking.
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The
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aerial shoot from above to, wow, like, I have to really slow down to your point, learn about
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them, and then learn about how what is it that I need to learn about me to bring out the best
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in them as well.
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So that's a completely different it's like managing to leading kind of thing.
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The difference, right?
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A lot of times that's a bit of a struggle.
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With the Habit Finder, do you do it from say management to leaders to senior executives?
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Do you kind of do the different levels related to teams and kind of hook those all together
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when you kind of develop your training programs?
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That's interesting.
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Not on purpose, but most people come to me in those spaces where they are struggling to make
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that transition, and they are frustrated and they will be either referred to me by someone
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or they'll say, Oh my gosh, I have someone who really needs to do this work with you because
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they are stuck in that kind of gap between being a producer and being a developer of
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people.
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I also think I'll add to, and this is actually in my book, but you can easily become a vending
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what I call a vending machine leader where people come to you with a problem to be solved
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and you solve it.
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Or they come to you with a question and you find the answer for them, which isn't
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necessarily a negative thing.
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It becomes this model where it's transactional and then everyone is dependent upon you.
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And there was a moment, this was a life changing moment, where a mentor overheard me
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basically jump in and solve a problem for someone on my team with the customer and she
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said to me can you do for a 100 people what you just did for that one?
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And I said, no.
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And she said, then you will never lead 100 people.
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Yeah, wow.
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So that's a very what a powerful question, right?
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Because instead of, like I always say, telling you the answer, having you kind of reflect on
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Because I'm sure in that moment, in that time, in that problem solving subset, that was a good
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thing.
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One thing, one and done, off you go.
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But if you are leading a, let's say, a national team, you're wanting them to be You want that
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skill to be able to touch lots of different personalities, but for them to use their gifts
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within themselves to potentially bring back solutions to you.
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Yes.
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So it's like giving a kid a fish like they always say or teaching them how to fish.
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Yes.
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And I knew I had made the transition fully.
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I think you're always learning.
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But when I had one of my team members come to me and she said, I had this issue and I was
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about to walk over and, or I was about to call you and ask you what I should do with this
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situation.
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And then I thought about that and I went and did it and it worked great.
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And I remember I was in my office by myself and I just the private fist pump.
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Yes, this is the goal.
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Right?
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Because then what happened was it got really fun because I was working with these very
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independent, resourceful, problem solving people who weren't all dependent upon me.
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Mhmm.
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Mhmm.
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And sometimes, you know, it's it's it's not interesting.
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It's the we all wanna lead, but sometimes we may not know how to let go in order to lead.
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Sometimes it's a need to be needed.
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And, you know, when you're managing people versus leading them.
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Right?
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It's kind of like, boy, I'm in this office alone.
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Nobody's coming knocked on my door.
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And then you have to really let go of how you perceive leading.
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And I often say, as a leader, and this is my kind of line that I use, I always say that, you
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know, leaders should leave places in better spaces than when they entered, right, versus in
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a disarray.
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But that means that you're already reflective.
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So on my book, Amy, which is ROR, which is Return on Relationships, what I talk a lot
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about is leaders really dropping down into you know, we all want to think we have no blind
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spots, but what are we really good at?
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Obviously, we're going to give you those.
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But what are the blind spots that you really need to reflect and grow more on?
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You're never probably going to be as great in those areas, but you can enhance them enough
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because the reflective lens of your team often has different iterations of your strengths,
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your limitations, those types of things so that you then can lead more in a more conscious
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space and meet people's needs at different spaces.
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Like you talk about the Habit Finder versus, oh, Amy does this and she's really good at
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that.
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I'm going to throw it up.
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Just kind of haphazardly doing it, but really it being more stud a bit more studied and, you
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know, and then eventually learning the timing with and that allows the gelling to obviously
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of people's teams as well.
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Right?
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And then you can kinda step in when you need to and just kinda let them self function after a
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while.
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Yes.
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It's a beautiful thing.
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It's when businesses multiply also.
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Yeah.
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Of course.
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We talked that example of one to a 100.
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Right?
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Good, good mentor direction there, right?
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Right.
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But people think it is the skills or the numbers or the strategy or the and I love the
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title of your book because it really is more relational.
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It's the return on knowing how to create spaces where people can thrive and feel safe and seen
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and do their best work and contribute their natural genius to the good of the whole.
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It's really an actually super fun way to work and live also.
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Right, because
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if you really think that everybody, like you said, has that special gift, right?
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I have to and I truly believe this, Amy, and I don't know if you believe it.
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I think that all of us want to have that be that shining light wherever we go.
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But sometimes we don't know we want we're not sure how to expose that light or some people
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are more introverted or and then they just need someone to bring that out of them to be able to
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shine in that way.
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And if a leader, I should say if, well, when leaders learn that skill, you have as a leader,
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you're just having a better time in your space as well.
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Right?
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Like, you're having, you know, better times.
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And then people around you are also, like, can be fully actualized in their roles and those
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types of things.
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So I think it's like
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a win win just overall.
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And can I also add, because I think it's something I'm seeing so much right now?
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I just had a conversation with a client about this actually.
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Is a relationship builder.
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She is a, an observer and like, I wonder what's going on with that person and that person
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seemed off today and I'm going to check-in with them and a, you should know this person and you
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should know that person because I think you'd really enjoy each other.
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She's sort of a collaborative leader, I might say, but she's very soft spoken, kind, gentle
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soul maybe.
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And she and I had this very meaningful conversation because she said I'm not a leader.
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And
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all of me was just like I have this internal like welling up.
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Tell me what you think a leader is and she said well someone who likes to have the microphone
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in their hand, someone who's charismatic, someone who's out in front, someone who speaks
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to large groups of people, or she had a lot of different kind of the stereotypical definition
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of leadership.
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I believe in 2025, to lead people well, her style of leadership is probably the most
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valuable.
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What a tragedy that she didn't see herself as a leader.
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And again, if you're the charismatic microphone and hand person, that's great too.
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I'm not disparaging leading in a different style.
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I'm just saying, don't discount your style of leadership because it doesn't fit in one lane
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or one style, but bring your natural genius.
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I'm not, I'm a, well, in The United States, I would say I'm a Tony Dungy coach.
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He was soft spoken.
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He's very much a, and that's how I led.
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I'm not a loud extroverted, into the room and fun.
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Yeah,
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what When you venture, everybody knows you're there and everybody knows.
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I'm more of a thoughtful, I need time to process.
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I love my unique geniuses finding people who are great at things and letting them be.
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I don't even want.
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I just want you to do that thing that you only I have to
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could see how you deliver it, right?
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Because I always your kindness and I can Amy and I have never met in person, but it comes
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through.
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So when you're kind, I think that allows people to dip down even more into listening versus the
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coach.
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And some coaches are different, right?
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Like down the middle and that works for some people.
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I'll give you an example.
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My son played hockey and he had a coach and this guy, he screamed.
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But he was so good.
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He was such a good coach.
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But he didn't work with every kid.
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He couldn't pull out.
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My he was able to my son just loved him and could deliver because he would say something to
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him and he would go and he would perform.
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So he loved them, but I could see other kids kind of frailing because they were like, Oh my
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God, you're screaming at me.
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And that kind of stuff.
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But I think you're so right.
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There's so many I often say, and my approach as well, is shoulder to shoulder.
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Because I often say when I managed teams myself that I didn't want to be front and center
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because I wanted to be part of the fabric.
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Because that means that they've learned.
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And I could leave that unit and not be missed because I would be part of that fabric because
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they had learned the skills to self function.
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It depends again, right?
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There's the autocratic top down is kind of the example that you're using that your client
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said.
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But there's so many different ways and probably potentially, I would say kind of like the
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potent impact of leadership where it's subtle and it's probably more decisive than the
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autocratic down the line kind of leader.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I might say to leaders who are listening, don't miss those leaders in your organization
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and not promote them or not pull them into positions of leadership.
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Really, it's really a valuable, just an addition to what you can create when you do
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that.
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I was actually let, my mom and I worked together for many years and she's very
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different from me, very extroverted, very much less on stage, very much like when she walks
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into a room, you know she's there, right?
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And for so many years, I felt like, oh, I don't know.
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And then I learned, oh, I'm best one on one.
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I'm very strategic.
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I am a deep thinker.
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I can look at problems from different perspectives.
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The second I stopped trying to be like her and started to just do what I'm best at, my
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business flourished and grew the very top of the mountain, right?
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Then here's the thing.
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You can't be looking at me trying to emulate me either.
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You have to be who you are
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And that permission as well.
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Right, Amy?
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I think that's the elixir.
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Right?
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Because I often say there's only one of you, of each of us.
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And when you find that right alignment within yourself in whatever role you play, whether
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you're the mom at the hockey rink or the tea boy, the tea block, or you're the one bringing
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the watermelon or the Kool Aid for soccer games, you're leading in so many different
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capacities and getting comfortable with that space in whatever role you're To me, that's the
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gift, right?
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And like from what you tell me with Habit Finder, it's helping people, like you said,
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looking at the ruts and kind of when is it that I'm going to get a little bit sludgy?
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When am I going to whip?
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And when am I going to just plant and I can't move?
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I think that's a really I like and visually, I think what a nice because I can visualize it in
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my brain.
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And if I could think of it, oh, that's kind of my personality.
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That's a nice way to I like that approach versus you do this this way and you're not so
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good at this, which is more about a like, almost like a bit of more of a punitive lens
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versus kinda, oh, you kinda get stuck over here, but you're really wow.
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You're phenomenal.
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Wow.
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You nobody has this skill.
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Just it's just a nicer landscape overall.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I think also if I can just turn down the volume of the noise in people's heads, they are so
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incredible.
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If they're not distracted by all this mess in their mind just noise it's just thoughts
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they're just thoughts but it's so loud or it's so distracting or it's so deeply woven into who
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you've been for so long and so if I can just lower the volume of that the things that people
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do take my breath away.
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Things they create in service of other people, the businesses they build, the new
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relationships they enter into, the families units that they support and nurture, like it's
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so cool.
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It's so cool.
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Yeah.
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With the companies or the clients that you work with, Amy, how do how is it that people
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approach you for support?
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Do they is it through coaching?
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Is it through training?
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I know you said you had a book, so I'd love you to tell us the name and stuff like that.
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So how do people get to you?
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How do I work with people and what do I do?
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Yeah, the structure of my business is very simple.
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My book is brand new.
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I just published it last year.
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It's called I See You.
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I designed it because not everyone has access financially to the work that I do, but I really
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wanted to have a place where everyone could join the conversation.
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The book is not a book of me, the master in some subject imparting my wisdom upon you.
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It's more of a space you can enter into to explore what it feels like to have a coaching
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session with me.
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In fact, that's why I chose the publisher I did out of Canada, actually, because she said, This
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book feels like a coaching session with you.
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And I was like, Yes, that's exactly what I want it to feel like.
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So it's like the foyer of my home.
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You can walk in and look around and see if you like what you see.
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So I work with clients in two ways, one on one, or in small groups.
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The small groups are women only called encounter and I lead a group of eight to 10
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women through the habit finder curriculum.
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All of the information about my work is amykemp.com.
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So, name, amykemp.com.
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And I also would just invite anyone who's curious about their subconscious habits of
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thinking to take the Habit Finder assessment on my website.
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It's free.
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So you can take it, you get your results right away.
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And it's like a 44 page PDF that you can read through.
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So it's not just like a little skimpy.
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It's like a real piece of information for you that's very valuable.
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Awesome.
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Awesome.
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So what am I taking away?
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I think I love the fact I like the landscape, like I said, like to be able to Amy and I were
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saying, you could zip open your head and I like that thought.
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Right?
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And I know where I get stuck.
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That's the thing I know, you know, kind of the personalities that are more the ones I have to
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really work with.
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But I think taking the habit finder, I'm going to take it and see what I know makes sense or
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if there's some other, like you said, blind spots within my subconscious that I'm maybe not
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connected to please everybody listening, go out and try it.
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Or even those leadership teams, it might be a good thing for them to even try to maybe have a
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chitchat about that.
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So for everybody, you know that leading is something that's such an individual thing for
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each person.
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I think figuring out the path, whether it's a habit finder or with me with my book ROR, you
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can just go to roxanderhodge.com/quiz.
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You take a little mini quiz and you kind of know how authentically connected you're either
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at home or at work.
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And what we do is we just send you some results back with some next steps.
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And if you wanted to consult with me, you can just reach out.
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So Amy, thanks so much for your time.
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This has been an amazing conversation.
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And for everybody listening, please reach out if you're needing some support from Amy, and we
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look forward to hanging out with you again next week.
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Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
29:45
healthy change.
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Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach.
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To work with Roxanne, visit roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
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We'll see you next time on Authentic Living with Roxanne.