Latest / Math Therapy / Why smart people still feel out of control (and what to do about it)

Transcript

Why smart people still feel out of control (and what to do about it) · Math Therapy

• 0:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode, question mark of Math Therapy.
• 0:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am not sure what's about to happen here.
• 0:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: All I know is that I'm behind the mic because David told me he was sick of listening to me complain, and if I was going to be stressed and talk to him about it, I might as well be productive and turn it into an episode.
• 0:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: So here we are.
• 0:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: And, um, I don't know.
• 0:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: I guess we're just gonna see what happens.
• 0:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm sitting here with my therapy calculator, AKA, my stuffy from TI Calculators, and I am here because, what can I say?
• 0:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am always.
• 0:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Saying blah, blah, blah, this anxiety, that trauma, blah.
• 0:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: We can fix things mindset, la, la, la, la, la.
• 0:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: There's so many solutions to so many problems.
• 0:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: But the truth is, I just like everyone else, have my own anxieties.
• 0:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yes, about math, but about life in general.
• 0:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And the truth is that math anxiety is just another form of anxiety.
• 1:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: And anxiety in general is, I always say this, it is about the fear of some future catastrophic event and the fear that you're not gonna be able to handle it.
• 1:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I feel like right now I am very consumed with my own anxieties and I.
• 1:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm here to outer process them because actually I have a legitimate therapy appointment in four and a half hours.
• 1:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I was supposed to do all this shit for my therapist last week that I did not do, and now I feel like she's gonna get mad at me, which like she's not gonna do'cause I'm paying her.
• 1:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: And like, therapists don't actually get mad at you, but I'm like, maybe if I'm accountable to someone, AKA U, the listener, I'll actually do the things I was supposed to do to feel less anxious last week so that I feel less anxious by the time my appointment rolls around in four and a half hours.
• 1:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: So, without further ado.
• 1:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: David's face right now.
• 1:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: This was your idea.
• 1:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 1:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am stressed.
• 1:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, I'm stressed because this, I feel this all started with a mathematical reason actually, which is that it is tax time and every tax season I get stressed.
• 1:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why do I get stressed?
• 1:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: I get stressed because I feel like I can't fucking understand taxes.
• 2:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like here I am.
• 2:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I, I like math, I understand mathematical operations.
• 2:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yet the entire tax system is so convoluted and complicated that I can't understand it, and when I can't understand it, I feel like I'm.
• 2:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Out of control because this is about money.
• 2:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's about my money, and then all of a sudden you're like, I don't know what's happening right now.
• 2:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Am I doing something wrong?
• 2:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is someone gonna come after me?
• 2:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't understand what these numbers mean.
• 2:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't understand what the rules are.
• 2:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't understand like where I'm supposed to input this, that, and the other thing.
• 2:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know.
• 2:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm not detail oriented, so I'm looking at the reports and I'm like, this could be my income.
• 2:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm not sure, is it.
• 2:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, I don't know.
• 2:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know.
• 2:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't understand what's going on, and it triggers my old math anxiety because I'm back to being that kid who was like, I don't know, I, if this makes sense.
• 2:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I'm plugging numbers into the formula and I don't understand if it makes sense.
• 2:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Actually, maybe this is an argument against the algorithm.
• 2:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: I actually thought I was gonna get on here and talk about how I love the algorithm because it actually brings me so much peace to plug shit in and get an answer and be able to check it off and just be done.
• 2:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just be finished to not have to think for fucking once.
• 3:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know we love thinking, I get that.
• 3:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: We love thinking, but like wouldn't it be nice to not have to think for a second?
• 3:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: But now that I'm saying this, I'm like, maybe this is the problem because I am plugging shit into FreshBooks and it's pumping out some number and I don't understand what it's.
• 3:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: Doing, actually, maybe that's the problem with taxes in general.
• 3:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't actually understand what's happening.
• 3:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Maybe I do need to think.
• 3:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Maybe that, uh, okay.
• 3:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Anyway, anyways, the point is that like, so now I'm back to this whole thing of being like, great, I don't know what's happening.
• 3:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know if any of these numbers are correct.
• 3:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: I've gotta pay a bunch of money.
• 3:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is that right?
• 3:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know.
• 3:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Am I not even paying the right amount?
• 3:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is someone gonna come after me?
• 3:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is the IRS coming after me?
• 3:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know I live in Canada, but still the IRS sounds scarier than the CRA, but I'd be scared if either of these people came after me because I don't even feel like I have, I wouldn't be able to argue because I don't know what they'd ask me, and I don't know what I did.
• 3:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I wouldn't be able to confidently be like, Nope, like here's my thought process.
• 3:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like if they were like, explain your thinking, I'd be like, bro, like I can't.
• 3:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: I can't actually.
• 3:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just plug shit in.
• 4:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I guess that's what teachers don't want to hear.
• 4:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: So this episode is, you know, when I started this episode, I was like, how is this possibly gonna tie into math?
• 4:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: But already I'm like, well, here we are.
• 4:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Here are all the similarities.
• 4:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think that's it.
• 4:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think actually, the feeling of not knowing is creating this out of control sensation where I feel so out of control, I don't even know what questions to ask every time I do ask a question, I'm gonna be honest when I ask an accountant a question, I've asked probably, I've probably spoken to eight accountants in my lifetime, and anytime I've asked them to explain anything to me, it has been incomprehensible.
• 4:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know what they're saying, so I end up feeling.
• 4:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Dumber.
• 4:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I feel dumb.
• 4:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: Now I feel like I still don't understand, and then I feel like there's no way I can understand because this person is explaining it to me and I can't understand.
• 4:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: So again, it's triggering this old math anxiety.
• 4:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like even when I'm asking the que, and then also half the time I don't even know what question to ask, right?
• 4:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: But when I do finally land on a question, the explanation just leaves me more confused.
• 4:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: And this is how I assume students.
• 4:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's not how I assume.
• 5:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know how students feel in math class.
• 5:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's like.
• 5:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: We want them to ask us a question if they don't understand, and they're like, I can't even begin to know what to ask you because I have no idea what the fuck is going on.
• 5:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then they ask the question, we explain it to them in this like kind voice.
• 5:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're like, see, it makes sense now.
• 5:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: And they're like, it actually makes less sense.
• 5:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: So now they feel even worse about themselves because now they've tried.
• 5:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, at least when I don't try, like I, if my mindset actually was, you know what?
• 5:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't need to know what's going on.
• 5:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: I trust my accountant, they're just gonna take care of it.
• 5:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm on a need to know basis.
• 5:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't need to know.
• 5:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: I would feel a lot better.
• 5:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: I would feel better.
• 5:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: The point is, when you try to understand something, when you decide I'm gonna finally put effort in, and then you can't understand it.
• 5:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: It doesn't feel good.
• 5:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: I actually talk about this a lot because I always talk about how, uh, math anxiety leads to learners entering the fear anticipatory and avoidance cycle, which is like, you're scared of this thing, like I'm scared of my taxes, so I have all this anticipatory anxiety around it, which is what if I try to understand it and then I can't understand it, and like it makes me feel even worse, and I already feel not understanding it and not answering questions or asking questions.
• 6:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I avoid, I go into avoidance, which I've done for a while, like I actually avoid for like 360 days of the year.
• 6:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm like, I'm just not even gonna think about it.
• 6:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then when tax times comes and I decide to like break the avoidance cycle where I'm like, you know what?
• 6:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm not gonna avoid it, I'm actually gonna like see if I can understand it.
• 6:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: It gets so much worse because like it feels like everything is so chaotic and helpless and crazy.
• 6:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then now I've tried to do something about it, and I'm in a worse position because I feel dumb, and I would've rather just kept my head in the sand.
• 6:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: And this is why honestly, so many people just don't try to do more math.
• 6:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: They're like, I don't wanna know what I don't know because it's gonna make me feel shitty.
• 6:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: But the truth is what I really need to do, I'm realizing as I say this out loud, is I need to find someone to explain this to me.
• 6:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I'm obviously capable of understanding how taxes work.
• 6:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right.
• 6:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: I can do calculus.
• 6:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: I must be able to understand how fucking taxes work.
• 7:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: If anyone is listening to this and would like to explain them to me, I think I need a Canadian accountant.
• 7:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is not a pitch for an accountant, but I think I do need a Canadian person to explain to me how my taxes are working and explain it to me in a really nice manner.
• 7:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: I need you to explain it to me like, in the way that I understand it, if I don't understand it, like just, just find another way.
• 7:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, so if anyone wants to explain my taxes to me, I actually just need to hire an accountant.
• 7:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: So would you like to be my accountant?
• 7:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, moving on.
• 7:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is how my whole anxiety spiral started, two days ago, was with taxes, so I started feeling outta control with my taxes.
• 7:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Then what happened was I started feeling out of control about social media.
• 7:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was like, oh my God, my taxes, like, I think that was just like in my mind, this feeling outta controlness, and then maybe it was a confirmation bias thing.
• 7:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't really know.
• 7:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: I started like, subconsciously grasping onto everything I felt out of control about.
• 7:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was like, oh my God, I'm so behind on social media.
• 7:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: I've got all this content.
• 7:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's all disorganized in my phone.
• 7:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't even know where it is, like where are all these videos?
• 7:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then it comes time to make a social media post and I don't even know what to look for because it's all, I haven't categorized it all.
• 8:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, uh, whatever, like, blah, blah.
• 8:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Then I went to like Google Drive to find something and I couldn't find it, and I was like, I have.
• 8:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: System here, like this is completely disorganized.
• 8:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like what am I doing?
• 8:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then I was like, oh, I don't know.
• 8:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was like, where am I even organizing all my deadlines?
• 8:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like how do I know I'm gonna get everything done this entire year?
• 8:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, and then me and David were talking about our band and I was like, we have all these songs.
• 8:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: We just finished an album.
• 8:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: We don't have a release plan.
• 8:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: If we want stuff to come out in 2027, we have to start now.
• 8:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: We haven't even started.
• 8:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: And oh my god, it was on and on and on.
• 8:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I don't know about you guys, but like I wake up and I just feel this way.
• 8:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I wake up and all of a sudden I'm like, I'm out of control.
• 8:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Everything's outta control.
• 8:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: So last week I was telling my therapist this and my therapist was like, okay, but like, do you have a gratitude practice?
• 8:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I was like, what the fuck?
• 8:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like again, I really believe in a gratitude practice and I preach this all the time.
• 8:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like she was like, instead of when you get up and you start thinking about all the things that you're doing wrong and all the things that are outta control, what if you instead start with the things you feel grateful for?
• 8:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I was like, you know what?
• 8:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's it.
• 8:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am always like focusing on the back foot.
• 9:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like right now, you can hear me.
• 9:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I sound insane and unhinged, right?
• 9:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because I'm like, oh my God, like I'm behind on this.
• 9:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know that I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 9:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: So what if I actually do go into gratitude.
• 9:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: Now, I was supposed to be doing this every day when I wake up and I feel this panic about all this stuff I'm behind on.
• 9:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was supposed to be, I, I ha I was supposed to be doing my own exercise.
• 9:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: I actually told my therapist this, I was like, this is a great idea.
• 9:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: I actually teach students and teachers to do this thing called,"I used to think, now I know", right?
• 9:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because we're so focused on all of this stuff, like we have not done and we're behind on.
• 9:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Instead of being like, yeah, but hold on.
• 9:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: Look at how far I've come.
• 9:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: So my idea was I should do this every morning when I get up.
• 9:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: As soon as I start having these thoughts of like, oh my God, I'm so behind, I'm not good enough.
• 9:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: I should be like, hold on, let's make note of something you've progressed on.
• 9:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Have I done that a single day this week?
• 9:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have not.
• 9:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: So we're gonna do it right now.
• 9:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Let's see if it works.
• 9:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 9:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: So, okay.
• 9:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 9:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 9:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I just told you guys all the things I'm stressed about, is this good?
• 10:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Should we end this?
• 10:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know if we should release this.
• 10:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: I sound insane.
• 10:06
  David Kochberg: Yeah, we can decide that later.
• 10:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so you
• 10:08
  David Kochberg: sound insane.
• 10:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Let's try.
• 10:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Let's try this.
• 10:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: I used to think, now I know.
• 10:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so let's just think about some things I can celebrate now instead of focusing on all the things I feel out of control on.
• 10:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 10:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Number one, and this is hard.
• 10:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is hard because right now my mind is like, no, no, like focus on all the things like my mind is trying to be like, but all the things you're so behind on you haven't done.
• 10:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: Let's think about all of the things I have accomplished or I have progressed on.
• 10:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so for example.
• 10:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I used to blank and now I blank.
• 10:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, let's think of some progress here.
• 10:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 10:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: You know what?
• 10:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: I had two talks this week.
• 10:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: I went to New York and to Chicago, and both of them were new talks that I hadn't done before.
• 10:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: And normally I would've been so stressed about them.
• 10:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: I would've been so stressed.
• 10:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: I would've been nervous, I would've not been able to get to sleep at night.
• 10:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: And actually.
• 10:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was not stressed.
• 10:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was like, I kind of knew.
• 10:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was like, you know what?
• 10:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's all good.
• 11:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna tweak my slides.
• 11:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna go in there with an air of curiosity and we're gonna see what happens.
• 11:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I'm just, I know that.
• 11:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know my stuff.
• 11:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: So that's actually good, right?
• 11:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like that is good.
• 11:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: I like literally a year ago or months ago, I would not have reacted that way.
• 11:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: I would've been like, oh my God, I'm panicked, these presentations would've weighed on my mind.
• 11:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: They would've interfered with my like day-to-day life and they didn't, I actually had a great time, so that is progress.
• 11:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 11:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Number two, here's number.
• 11:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: You know what?
• 11:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: Here's something else that's great.
• 11:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: Even though I was super stressed, like all week when I woke up in the morning, I'd wake up panicked.
• 11:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: I didn't, I actually stuck to the behavior that I knew would make me feel good.
• 11:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: So even though I woke up and wanted to like immediately get on my phone and start, because that's like kind of like, again, it's a control response you feel outta control.
• 11:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like you look for something to control.
• 11:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: And for me, I pick up my phone and start just like looking at emails and texts and social media and being like, what can provide me temporary relief, or what can I just do?
• 11:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like my control mechanism is to work.
• 11:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like normally I'm like, you've gotta get up and you start gotta start answering emails.
• 12:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: But instead I was like, Nope, you're gonna get up, you're gonna make your cup of tea, you're gonna read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, you're gonna do your meditation with your ice pack on your face, and then you're gonna go to the gym.
• 12:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you know what?
• 12:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: I did it every single day.
• 12:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is progress.
• 12:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I should be really proud of myself for that.
• 12:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Vanessa.
• 12:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 12:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Be proud of yourself.
• 12:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, great.
• 12:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is progress.
• 12:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's like amazing.
• 12:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is good.
• 12:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're controlling that.
• 12:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm in control of that.
• 12:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 12:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 12:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: I need one more.
• 12:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm thinking about the tax thing.
• 12:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: I feel like I need something to combat the tax outta controlness.
• 12:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 12:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 12:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 12:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: I've got one.
• 12:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm here talking about it.
• 12:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just put a call out to an accountant and also yesterday a friend of mine suggested her accountant for next year.
• 12:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like for this year.
• 12:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know I'm too late, whatever.
• 12:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I emailed that accountant.
• 12:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I got the ball rolling of potentially finding another accountant.
• 12:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And here is what I actually need to remember.
• 12:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have been fine, right?
• 13:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: No one has come for me.
• 13:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have paid my taxes, even though I don't understand them, nothing bad has happened, right?
• 13:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like, I think maybe this needs to be a thing of like, even though I don't fully understand it, they are being taken care of.
• 13:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: My accountant knows obviously to some extent what's going on.
• 13:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I do feel, honestly, when I talk to accountants, there are multiple ways to do a lot of things.
• 13:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like, my accountant has made a decision to do things a certain way and it's working out fine, and I think I'm actually just, you know what?
• 13:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, here we go.
• 13:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Here we go.
• 13:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think I am just catastrophizing all these things.
• 13:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I'm like, I'm like, what if I'm doing them wrong?
• 13:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know that I'm doing them wrong.
• 13:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: What if I'm paying too much in taxes?
• 13:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know that that's happening.
• 13:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: What if I'm paying too little in taxes?
• 13:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't actually know that that's happening.
• 13:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: What if there's a better way to do X, Y, and Z?
• 13:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't actually know that any of these things are true.
• 13:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 13:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is actually calming me down.
• 13:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm just making this up.
• 13:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm just thinking of the what if worst case scenario.
• 14:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: What if, what if, as Mel Robbins says, what if the best thing happens?
• 14:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, what if I'm paying the exact right amount of taxes, right?
• 14:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: What if I, what if I'm actually getting away with not knowing anything and not doing any of the work myself because my accountant does it and I don't need to understand it?
• 14:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: What if my accountant has found some amazing ways for me to save money, to pay my taxes responsibly in a non-labor intensive way that could be happening?
• 14:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: And this actually reminds me we are, is the negativity bias guys.
• 14:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's the negativity bias, always focusing on the what if the worst thing happens?
• 14:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's like, but nothing bad is happening.
• 14:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Everything could be fine.
• 14:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: So why don't I just choose to believe that?
• 14:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: And that is the question.
• 14:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why don't we just choose to believe that the best thing is happening?
• 14:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: And again, this is gonna help me.
• 14:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is gonna, okay.
• 14:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you guys for listening.
• 14:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is actually now starting to help me.
• 14:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is gonna help because why don't we just focus on the best thing.
• 15:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because we are born with a negativity bias for protection.
• 15:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's what's happening.
• 15:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Our brains are trying to protect us.
• 15:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I constantly wake up scanning my environment for threats.
• 15:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: I really do.
• 15:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wake up being like, what could I have missed out on?
• 15:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: What could I have fucked up?
• 15:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like what could I be doing wrong?
• 15:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, oh my God, and that's what's happening.
• 15:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: But what I need to do is.
• 15:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Actually what my therapist said, which is, what am I doing right?
• 15:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have to get up and write down these things.
• 15:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just told you, here are all the things I'm doing right.
• 15:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm sticking to my routine, I'm going to the gym.
• 15:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm eating healthy.
• 15:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am making a to-do list.
• 15:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: See, already watch guys.
• 15:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: As I'm talking, I'm like, yeah, but my to-do list is a mess and I haven't like coordinated it properly and maybe I should be using a physical calendar.
• 15:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so now what do I do?
• 15:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yes.
• 15:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Those things are true.
• 15:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Maybe, but why am I focused again on the all the things I'm doing wrong?
• 15:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I haven't missed a deadline.
• 15:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I'm carrying on, like everything's fine.
• 15:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I guess we're always like, but what if we could be doing this thing better?
• 16:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Honestly, I remember listening to this Mel Robbins podcast episode and she said in it, no, her guest said, everyone dies with a to-do list.
• 16:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like you're never gonna die being like, ha, yeah, I guess I've figured it all out and I'm all done.
• 16:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's not what happens.
• 16:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're constantly working on things.
• 16:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're constantly works in progress.
• 16:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, you know, we are curious and interested and always wanting to try new things and do things better.
• 16:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: So we're always gonna feel a little bit of.
• 16:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: What if I try this, what I if I try that.
• 16:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I notice this not just for myself but my friends, right?
• 16:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're always focused on our deficits.
• 16:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, oh, I just can't get it together.
• 16:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, I can't make it to the gym.
• 16:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: I can't ever get my to-do list straight.
• 16:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm always behind.
• 16:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, so how do I rewire that thought?
• 16:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I think I really have to change my mentality of being like, I'm trying my best, and every morning I need to write, you know what?
• 16:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Every morning and every night I am, I need to do this.
• 16:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: I need to, every morning I need to wake up and be like, okay, here's something great that happened, or something I'm really, really proud of and really in control of.
• 16:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: And at the end of the day, I need to be like, here's something I really fucking nailed today.
• 17:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Instead of thinking of the three things I did not get done.
• 17:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Period.
• 17:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have to do it.
• 17:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have to do it starting right now.
• 17:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm doing it right now vocally on the podcast, but I need to write them down.
• 17:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 17:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: We now have four hours and 15 minutes until my therapy session.
• 17:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay?
• 17:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I do feel just to circle this back, even though this is about me, but now I'm a little deescalated.
• 17:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank fuck.
• 17:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wanna think about students and math because this really is making me think so much of what happens with not just our students, but teachers.
• 17:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: I feel like this is the thing is as educators, we are so burnt down and stressed because there's always a million more things we could be doing that we're not doing.
• 17:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: We really do not take the time to be like, look at the 4 million things I did this week.
• 17:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Look at the incredible experiences I created for students.
• 17:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Look at that student that I made laugh.
• 17:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Look at the student that I made smile.
• 17:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Look at this like huge win I had.
• 17:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: There's gonna be an endless array of things we have yet to do, and what makes it even worse slash better is we're constantly going to professional development.
• 18:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: What, what is the definition of professional development?
• 18:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like developing professionally, that means growing and trying new things.
• 18:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: So every time we go to a pd, it's like, that's so exciting, but I feel like we can't help but feel a bit deficit about it because like we're basically being taught to do things we are not doing.
• 18:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right.
• 18:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like yeah, sometimes.
• 18:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: I mean, I hope that I'm always like at least affirming the educators in the room to be like, oh my God, look at all the amazing stuff you are doing, but I'm also teaching you new things, which means there's a chance you're gonna leave and be like, oh my God, now there's even more stuff I need to do.
• 18:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: How do we approach that with excitement and curiosity instead of deficit thinking about what we're already doing?
• 18:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: And that's a question I'm throwing out there.
• 18:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: If you have any advice, honestly, text me right now.
• 18:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: Honestly, I I'm, I, I feel like you're probably all texting me right now.
• 18:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: My phone is probably blowing up because you're probably all deeply concerned, but like, don't be, but I will take any advice.
• 18:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Um, don't be, I feel like I am, I mean, we know that I'm an outer processor.
• 18:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: You guys know if you've been listening to me for this long, not today, but like in general life, and I do feel like it's like, like having that grace to be like, we can have all the strategies.
• 19:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: And guys, I have so many strategies.
• 19:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: I always welcome more strategies and I'm always learning more strategies.
• 19:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm always reading, I'm seeing a therapist, like I'm listening to podcasts.
• 19:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: But even with the strategies, we have to remember that we are fighting a biological evolutionary, um, characteristic.
• 19:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because sometimes, like honestly today I had an outburst just being like, what is wrong with me?
• 19:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, why am I always thinking like, okay guys, I'm a positive per like, I consider myself to be a positive person.
• 19:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 19:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: I do.
• 19:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: However, and like, and like this isn't like an egotistical thing.
• 19:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, oh my God, I'm so positive.
• 19:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I really, I am constantly trying and do see the positive side of things.
• 19:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, you know what I mean?
• 19:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, I can be like, my life is amazing.
• 19:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm so grateful for this, dah, dah, dah, dah.
• 19:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: But the voice in my head, like the, the clenching feeling around my chest of like constantly feeling like the other shoe is going to drop, I feel like that is tied to.
• 19:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Feeling like a not enoughness, like we're never gonna be doing enough.
• 20:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like there's some things out of control.
• 20:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're gonna get in trouble.
• 20:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I do feel like so much of that is tied to education.
• 20:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I really, really feel like it's tied to what we were taught in school, which was there's always more you could be doing.
• 20:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: You always need to be productive.
• 20:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: You need to be getting good grades.
• 20:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like if you're sitting around daydreaming, you're lazy, like you're a bad student.
• 20:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like there's this idea of like, you're supposed to have all your shit together and just know how to do all these things and never ask the same question twice.
• 20:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Never even ask a question.
• 20:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just like know and know what everybody else knows.
• 20:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Now it sounds like I'm blaming the entire education system and math class for my anxiety and personal failings as a human, which I'm not, but I do think it's part of it.
• 20:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I actually listened to two podcasts in the past few months.
• 20:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: One with Mel Robbins, one with Elizabeth Gilbert, and they were incredible.
• 20:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: They were about productivity and how it is one of our biggest cultural problems of this time, this feeling that we have to constantly be productive.
• 20:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And hustling and how it's leading to extreme burnout.
• 20:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like just this idea of like, we're never doing enough.
• 21:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: And in my mind I was like, I, I actually think Mel Robbins made this tie to the classroom experience.
• 21:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's just an interesting thing to think about and look at.
• 21:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: I won't like harp on it, but I do think it's really important for us to think as educators or humans, whoever's listening to this, who grew up in this system, to think of how we want to make that experience different for the kids that we teach, right?
• 21:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like this idea of like, if you're not doing something, if you're not producing something, you're not a valuable citizen.
• 21:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because it has led to so many of us like feeling like we cannot relax or ever like do anything right or do anything enough.
• 21:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: And it makes me like, it makes me go back to negativity bias.
• 21:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: And actually what I'm really thinking about now is not only negativity bias, but confirmation bias.
• 21:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because I think I really struggle with that too.
• 21:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: This idea of like.
• 21:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: I feel out of, oh my God.
• 21:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: No, I think I'm realizing what happened now, okay guys, I'm having an epiphany.
• 21:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm having an epiphany.
• 21:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: What happened is, remember I told you guys, it all started with the tax thing, so I'm feeling out of control.
• 22:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: I feel like everything's out of control.
• 22:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, great.
• 22:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: So all of a sudden that has been triggered in me.
• 22:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm out of control.
• 22:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: So now the sneaky confirmation bias kicks in where like again, this is something we have evolved with.
• 22:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like we want to confirm that what we believe is true, it helps us feel safer.
• 22:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: So now I feel like I'm subconsciously trying to confirm that I am out of control.
• 22:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: And that's probably why I started fucking being like, and my calendar's out of control and all of these photos are disorganized on my phone and I don't even know where these deadlines are.
• 22:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: And like, I need to plan 2027.
• 22:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: I guess I'm like subconsciously trying to find.
• 22:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: Confirmation that I am out of control.
• 22:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Instead of just being like, I feel out of control with my taxes, let me deal with that because I'm not actually out of control here.
• 22:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 22:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just don't understand a few things.
• 22:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's literally it.
• 22:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's all that's happening right now.
• 22:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then moving on that, and that's what a spiral often is.
• 22:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: A spiral is often negativity bias and confirmation bias.
• 22:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just like being besties and creating complete chaos on club night at 3:00 AM after too many vodka shots like that, is it, that's what's happening.
• 23:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: They're just like, woo, like let's fucking go.
• 23:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, I actually think that is what's happening.
• 23:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: So then the question becomes, what strategies do I have?
• 23:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: To negate those two things to be like, I know what's up, you guys.
• 23:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know what you're up to.
• 23:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I, I, this is one of those moments where I think I also get mad at myself because I'm like, oh my God.
• 23:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I know better.
• 23:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know all the strategies, like why am I not practicing what I preach?
• 23:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: But for everyone listening, who probably feels the same way sometimes.
• 23:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's why the saying it's easier said than done, literally exists.
• 23:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because it's easier said than done.
• 23:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: Honestly.
• 23:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, do you, like therapists need therapists too, right?
• 23:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like every single like therapist I know has their own therapist because it's not just because, you know, strategy suddenly like you're like, fine, right?
• 23:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like.
• 23:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Knowing something and acting on it are two different things, right?
• 23:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like belief and behavior are two different things.
• 23:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: So even though we know these strategies, the hardest time to employ them is when you're in crisis, right?
• 24:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like the hardest time to employ take a deep breath and like chill out is when you're in the middle of crisis.
• 24:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's actually why they say, it's a practice.
• 24:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Meditation is a practice because you're supposed to fucking practice it before you really need to use it, right?
• 24:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're supposed to practice it every single day, meditate for 10 minutes every single day, so that when the time comes when you're hyperventilating on a podcast, you know, you can then easily go into meditating for 10 minutes.
• 24:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're not like for the first time ever trying to be like, oh my God, let me figure out how to meditate now that I'm in hyperventilation mode.
• 24:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 24:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: And that's the same with math.
• 24:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have to say.
• 24:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is why it's like you're not trying to learn like the time to learn how to like solve the quadratic equation or multiply fractions is not on the test, right?
• 24:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's not the day before, even when you're escalated about the test.
• 24:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: You wanna be in the regular practice of mathematical activity and thinking every single day so that when you face a challenging problem or a high stake situation, it's muscle memory to you.
• 25:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so you know what?
• 25:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is what I'm gonna congratulate myself for doing another thing, quote unquote, right?
• 25:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Which is I do meditate as a practice.
• 25:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: It might not sound like it right now, but I do meditate almost every single morning I do.
• 25:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: So yes, sometimes it's hard to call in those strategies in the moment, and I'm being hard on myself for that.
• 25:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: But if you were saying to me, yeah, I know, like it's just really hard for me to, in the moment to catch myself, I just start panicking.
• 25:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wouldn't be like, you're a horrible person.
• 25:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'd be like, yes, that's completely normal and all you can do every time is pause, try to deescalate and try to employ one of your strategies.
• 25:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: And quite frankly, that's what I did this morning.
• 25:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: I woke up panicked and I was like, oh my God, I just wanna go smoke a pack of cigarettes even though I haven't smoked in five months.
• 25:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I'm just gonna like, I just wanna order a coffee and smoke cigs.
• 25:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I was like.
• 25:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: What you're going to do, even if you don't want to, is Mel Robbins 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, put on your clothes and go to the gym.
• 25:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I did because I've been in the practice of going to the gym all week that today it was muscle memory and I just did it and I felt so much better after.
• 26:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 26:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: So all of that to say, it's so much easier to give advice than to take your own advice or to take advice from others, but also I wanna just like, I guess, share that on my like quote unquote best days, you know, on the days where I'm like aligned, I am using all my strategies, I feel like I can get myself out of a negative mind loop.
• 26:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Those days happen.
• 26:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 26:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I really believe those days happen more and more the more you engage in the practices.
• 26:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think about like days when I've like been anxious for like, you know, I've woken up super anxious and I've just been like, fuck it, I'm not using a single strategy and it persists.
• 26:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Whereas like if I start using the strategies, it actually like things slowly but surely calm down and like a day later or maybe two days or maybe that evening, I do move out of feeling, out of control and more into a place of being like, first of all, you can't control everything in life.
• 27:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is just a fact, and that's completely fine.
• 27:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: And the things you feel out of control of A, do not matter, or B, are not as outta control as you think I do.
• 27:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: And there, there are days like obviously right now where it's a lot harder to employ those strategies and to get into that type of aligned mindset, it's a lot harder.
• 27:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: That being said, those days aren't all the time.
• 27:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I kind of just want, I, first of all really, I came on here because David kind of forced me to,'cause he was getting really annoyed at me.
• 27:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I don't know if this was beneficial to, quite frankly, anyone except for David who's raising his hand right now, um, but I do, I mean, I actually feel a lot better, which is why one of my favorite strategies is actually just outer processing.
• 27:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like really, because I actually didn't even really know what was going on until I, until I started to tell you guys.
• 27:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I couldn't tell David'cause he didn't wanna listen unless he was recording this as a podcast.
• 27:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: And now I'm like, okay, I actually see what happened.
• 27:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And really I feel like that's at the heart of the work of that all of us are doing is seeing our patterns.
• 28:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Seeing what's happening, seeing what's actually the actual root, like, holy fuck.
• 28:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: I honestly do feel so much better.
• 28:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm like, it's not about the taxes, it's about, it's not about the calendar.
• 28:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's not, it's about feeling out of control and like I'm doing something wrong.
• 28:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's a control thing.
• 28:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay guys, I don't know what has happened.
• 28:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's not that I blacked out or dissociated'cause I am very present.
• 28:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: But, uh, David is telling me that I do not sound as self-indulgent and egotistical and negative as I think I do right now, and to just trust him with the process.
• 28:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: So maybe this episode will air, if you're listening to me say this, then it has aired.
• 28:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: But thank you guys for listening.
• 28:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: It actually really, really helped.
• 28:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am going to open my phone journal right now.
• 28:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: Open my notes up like I was told to a week ago by my therapist and start a note that I will every morning and every night write in.
• 28:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm doing it.
• 28:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm promising you this.
• 28:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Fuck, okay, I'm gonna do it.
• 28:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna do it.
• 28:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna do it.
• 28:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Believe, behave, become.
• 28:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: We've gotta change our behavior.
• 28:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: If we wanna change our core beliefs, it's happening.
• 28:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: If you're listening still, um.
• 29:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Text me.
• 29:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Text me if you have any ideas, if you have any advice, if you feel the same way.
• 29:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: And most of all, if you're an accountant who wants to help me, and I'll see you guys next week on the Math Therapy podcast, who the fuck knows what the episode will be about?
• 29:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because things have gotten completely off the rails.
• 29:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: But you know what?
• 29:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: I do know one thing.
• 29:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: My taxes will be submitted by then.
• 29:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Peace out, peace, love, and pi.
• 29:26
  David Kochberg: Like get outta here.
• 29:27
  David Kochberg: Hello, this is David.
• 29:28
  David Kochberg: Usually Vanessa would insist that you share an episode, but because she's not convinced that we should even be publishing this episode, if I have my way, we will publish it and I will be the one now to insist that you share this episode with that friend of yours who just always seems a little wound up and really loves to outer process directly at your face.
• 29:53
  David Kochberg: You could just be like, Hey, I've got this great podcast episode I think you'd really love.
• 29:57
  David Kochberg: Just send them this one.
• 29:59
  David Kochberg: And then maybe by comparison they'll listen to it and be like, oh, maybe, maybe I'm in better shape than I thought.
• 30:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Or maybe what?
• 30:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Or maybe you two will start a podcast.
• 30:10
  David Kochberg: Yeah.
• 30:11
  David Kochberg: Okay.
• 30:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: You and your friend who's out or processing.
• 30:13
  David Kochberg: Now it's time to say goodbye.
• 30:14
  David Kochberg: Bye, Vanessa.
• 30:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know that we can air any of this.
• 30:22
  David Kochberg: we can decide this later.
• 30:23
  David Kochberg: I think this is all actually really good.
• 30:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I sound unhinged,
• 30:28
  David Kochberg: which is why it's so entertaining.
• 30:29
  David Kochberg: Okay.
• 30:30
  David Kochberg: just do.
• 30:30
  David Kochberg: Yeah,
• 30:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm exhausted now.
• 30:32
  David Kochberg: Which is good.
• 30:33
  David Kochberg: mission accomplished from my perspective.
• 30:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.