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Trapped · Booker Scott: Truth Be Told

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's 6 Eastern. It's 3 o'clock Pacific. We will draw
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: this city closer together. Coast to coast and around the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: world from the America Out Loud talk radio studios.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: We will replace the frigidity of rugged individualism with the
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: warmth of collectivism.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: It's time for The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: There is a dirty stain on America, on America's society.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: It doesn't go away, but we want to bury our
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: head in the sand, hoping that it will. But it's not.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: I'm Booker Scott. This is The Truth Be Told, and
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: thank you for joining us. If you're listening live tonight,
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: thanks for doing that. If you found us later on
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: a podcast, thanks so much for making that extra effort.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I do appreciate it. Child sex trafficking, human trafficking, and
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: many people just turned off the radio right there. People
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: don't want to hear it. They don't want to talk
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: about it. They don't want to think that something like
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: this can exist in our society. But it does, unfortunately.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Children are taken, they're kidnapped, and then they are sold
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: into a life of drugs and sex, prostitution. It happens
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: every day in this country. There are two sides to
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: this equation. There is the supply side, which I just
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: talked about, and the demand side, which would be the
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: men and women that buy these children for sexual edification.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: And I'm not sure why it is we don't want
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: to talk about this, because that's the case. We just
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: don't want to talk about it. If it's out of
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: our mind, out of our sight, then it doesn't exist. Well,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: it does exist. There are people like Sarah LaChance, who
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: has started a movement called in Tampa, Florida called Stop
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: the Movement that tries to go in and rescue these
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  Speaker 3: people that have been taken and put into this life.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: We have her here on the program now. Sarah, thank
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: you for coming on. It's so great to have you.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: you shining a light on this issue.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: And you and I, you know, we were able to
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: go take a tour a few weeks ago. And right
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: here in the Tampa Bay market, which by the way
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: is a television market, it's about 4 million people. But
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: it is an incredible, incredible problem we have. And I
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: thought I knew something a little bit about this subject.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: But what I found out was I really know nothing
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: about it because the things that we saw were amazing.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: And I want to get into that. But I also
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: want to ask you, you start StopTheMovement.org. What was your motivation?
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: What was that event that happened in your life that said,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do something?
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: That's a great question. This has been a calling on
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: my family's life for many years. I worked at the
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: LA Dream Center in downtown Los Angeles about 10 years ago.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: I spent some time there on the human trafficking unit,
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: and I was in the exact same spot as you are.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: I was shocked to discover what I thought I knew
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: about the issue, and I was completely wrong. And I
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: was shocked to find out that human trafficking affects men, women,
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: and kids of all ages. And I have unfortunately worked
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: with a variety of them over the years. When I
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: moved back to Florida, I was passionate about finding a
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: place to serve and did research for about a year
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: trying to figure out where I could get plugged in
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: and really felt called to start my own organization. And
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: our focus for the past couple of years has been
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: prevention and awareness. Our mantra is, you know, an ounce
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And we
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: have recently, as you discovered, branched out to outreach. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: we've got even bigger dreams beyond that because, like you said,
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: it is such a big problem.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: And I wasn't aware of how big a problem it is.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: And what we found was on that tour, we went
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: to neighborhoods that were less fortunate. We went to a
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: neighborhood that had $ 3 million to $ 5 million houses, and
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: there were a couple of trap houses there. And to
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: be honest, I didn't know what a trap house was.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Can you explain to people what a trap house is?
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Sure.
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  Speaker 4: That's not in everybody's vernacular. A trap house is essentially
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: a house where illegal activity is taking place. So generally,
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  Speaker 4: the homes that we toured and saw, there are women,
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: children living and drugs being sold in and out of them.
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  Speaker 4: You could probably include weapons in a lot of those
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  Speaker 4: as well. So there's just illegal activity happening in these places.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: And like you said, it could be your next door neighbor.
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  Speaker 4: It's not necessarily all low-income housing. It spans every city
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  Speaker 4: across every state in our nation.
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  Speaker 3: And as we toured, we went to a lot of
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: less fortunate areas. And I think that's where most people
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: believe it's all taking place. And it does take place there.
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  Speaker 3: And the life that these people get trapped into is terrible.
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  Speaker 3: And I want to talk about that. But again, it
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: really struck me that here we are with $ 3 to
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: $ 5 million houses, the neighborhood right next to that, really
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: nice homes alone. It had trap houses where they were
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: selling people out of and selling drugs and guns and
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  Speaker 3: It was shocking, and it left an impression on me,
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: really for a week. I couldn't stop thinking about it,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: and here we are now, weeks later, and I'm still
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: thinking about it. Because these are people's kids that start
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: out there. We learned about grooming. We went by one
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: specific house where this guy puts out ads on Craigslist
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  Speaker 3: to teach kids, boys specifically, because I think boys are
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  Speaker 3: left out of of this. We always think of little
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: girls and we think of women. But this specific case
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: was a guy that was putting ads on Craigslist to
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: teach them how to be a DJ or voice lessons.
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  Speaker 3: So the parents drop these boys off, spend $ 60, give
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: the guy $ 60 to do the voice lessons, and then
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: he starts the grooming process. That's legitimate, isn't it, Sarah?
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: Yes. And I'm so glad that you brought that up.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: I think it's really important that we talk about what
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: grooming is. I was just having a conversation yesterday with
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: a woman who said, I don't even know that term.
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  Speaker 4: And so the simple way to explain grooming is when
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: a bad adult is taking their time to earn the
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: trust of either another adult or a child for the
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: purpose of exploiting them. So they are maybe befriending them.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: It could be a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. They are taking the
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  Speaker 4: time to learn where their weaknesses are, and then they
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  Speaker 4: will make it seem like they're filling those needs, and
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  Speaker 4: then they will flip the script and start to exploit
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: those needs. And at that point, the mental abuse has
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: already begun, the psychological abuse, a lot of times physical
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  Speaker 4: and sexual abuse have also occurred. And at that point,
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: escape is almost impossible.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: And they go down that path and that path becomes that,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: that voice teacher becomes the pimp and starts and starts
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: selling these young boys in this case, publicly online, maybe
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: on Craigslist or some other place. I also learned another
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: term that I'd never heard. And that was a rub map.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: And for those of you listening, I'm going to try. Well, actually, Sarah,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: you try because you know more about it than I do.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: I think we're all learning together, but basically a list
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: of what we call the IMPs, the illicit massage parlors
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: in the area. Now, are there places giving legitimate massages?
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Of course there are. There are places that are keeping
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: women employed there against their will. They have taken their identifications. Generally,
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: they are from other countries, and they are not allowed
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: to leave, and they're being forced to perform sex acts
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: much beyond the scope of what an actual massage is.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: And one way that you could keep an eye out
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: if you're in the community is if you see a
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: massage parlor that's open until midnight. This is a red flag.
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  Speaker 4: I love a massage, but I have never needed a
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  Speaker 4: massage at midnight. And if you see all the windows
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: are blacked out, those are a pretty good sign that
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: something illegal is happening behind those doors.
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  Speaker 3: And a rub map, just to go back to that,
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  Speaker 3: is an application that you can download on your phone
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  Speaker 3: or it's a website. And what it does is it
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  Speaker 3: shows those massage parlors all over the country. You can
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: click on your state, then click on your zip code,
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  Speaker 3: and it will show those massage parlors that are doing
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: more than giving massages. And something else I learned was
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: that if it was a pink pony, that meant that
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: there were little girls at that massage parlor. So this
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: is reality, isn't it, Sarah?
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. This is not an ethereal concept. Primarily, we focus
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: on what's happening stateside. So this is not something that
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: when we're talking about it's not happening in the Philippines,
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: it's not happening in India. This is happening here in
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  Speaker 4: the United States where everybody is supposed to be free.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: and we have, it's not a conceptual idea. It's also,
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: I think, very important to say this is not a
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  Speaker 4: political issue. This is a human rights issue that's really
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  Speaker 4: affecting all of our cities. And like you found out
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: just a few weeks ago, it is right under our noses.
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  Speaker 4: And if we don't know what to look for, then
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: we don't know how to help.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I found out that one of these people that
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: is involved in this lives less than a mile from me,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: one of those houses. And so it was a shocking tour.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: It really was. And when you get back to the
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: trapped part of this lifestyle, we were talking about the
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  Speaker 3: guy on Craigslist giving the voice lessons. They get them
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  Speaker 3: into drugs and then these people get addicted to drugs.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: So then they become dependent on the groomer or then
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  Speaker 3: becomes the pimp. And they can't get out of the lifestyle,
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  Speaker 3: can they? Because I heard stories of, you know, even
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: the cell phones that they possess are not owned by them.
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  Speaker 3: So the only way to get outside of their world
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  Speaker 3: is to give up their cell phone. And you guys
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: actually try to outreach to take people out of these positions.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: That's not easy, though, is it?
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: No, not at all. And you hit the nail on
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: the head. It is not only a drug dependence. It
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: is generally they racked up a criminal record, mostly due
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: to no fault of their own. If a pimp is
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: controlling what they do, you know, maybe petty theft charges
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: or drug charges. Additionally, there is a huge psychological abuse
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: that's taking place that if if let's just use a girl,
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: for example, that's being trafficked. Her family has been threatened.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: So she's not just at risk. If she leaves and
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: they catch her, they might beat her beyond, you know,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: recognition and then drag her back. But her sister has
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: been threatened. Her little brother has been threatened that they're
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: going to be drug into this if she leaves and
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: that her mom and dad are going to be killed
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: and that the pictures that she's, you know, taken are
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: going to be shared all over school or maybe all
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: over her church. that she's going to be publicly humiliated.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: And there is no way out. You're completely isolated. And
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: so when people say, well, why don't they just leave?
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Believe me, if they could, they would.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: And it really is trapped. And as I heard, trap houses,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: that's what I thought. I thought, well, these people are
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: trapped in a lifestyle. We went by one particular road
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: that had I think it was two, it was at
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: least two, maybe three houses in a row. And they
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: said that they move girls from one house to the
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: other house and to the other house. And after the tour,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: I actually went and looked up those houses online at
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Google Maps. And you could literally see two guys standing
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: out front of those houses keeping guard. Something else I
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: learned on that tour was that these homes and these
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: trap houses, they are surveilling you. that they have video
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: cameras up in the trees, they have video cameras all
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: over it. So the process of trying to go and
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: rescue these women, men, boys, girls, is difficult because you're
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: putting yourself in danger.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's almost impossible. And that's absolutely accurate. I had
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: a personal situation where we went to a massage parlor
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: one time. And before we got out of the car,
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: they met us at the door. We didn't even see,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: to this day, I don't know where the cameras were.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: They saw us as we pulled into the parking lot.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: They knew that we clearly were not customers, met us
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: at the door and refused us to come in. So they're,
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: and this is a, as you said at the beginning,
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: this is a multi-billion dollar industry. These people are smart.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: These are business people. They, they know what they're doing.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: They're not trying to get caught and they're trying to
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: make money. They care about money over everything else. Um,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: so that they're protecting, uh, their product, which is people.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: And it's real. And that's what I want people to
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: understand is it's real because I think sometimes the human
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: trafficking words together, um, And people just, it just flies
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: right over their head. How do you describe human trafficking?
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: So I describe it as exploitation for profit. So when
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: we talk about words like sexual abuse, molestation, rape, that
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: is an exploitation. That's an abuse. That's a stealing of
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: someone's innocence. When we talk about human trafficking, it is
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: that exploitation over and over and over again that someone
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: is choosing to pay for and someone else is benefiting from.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: And when we talk about, it is a hard concept
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: to grasp. Two things I want to say. When we
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: say it's a $ 30 billion industry, what does that mean
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: to people? That's such a hard number to grasp. Let
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: me put it in a bite-size nugget for you. The
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: average sex act is about $ 30.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: How many sex acts add up to $ 30 billion or
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: $ 150 billion or whatever the actual number is, it's staggering.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: That's what we need to know. And when people say,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: you know, this is happening in developing countries, it's not
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: happening here. Let me introduce you to the two little
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: girls that are sisters that were being trafficked by a
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: family member. And they went to school every single day.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: And at night they were being trafficked out of their
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: own house. Let me introduce you to the girl that
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: I work very closely with who was abused by a
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: family member 20 years ago. Then pictures were taken and
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: those are still circulating on the Internet today. So there
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: is no justice there while this man walks around free.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: And let me introduce you to the girl who has
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: a child who needed to be rescued from the situation
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: and left other children behind. behind. This happens every single day.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: I could go on and tell you for hours, unfortunately,
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: stories of real people that it's happening to here. And
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: none of us are immune to this happening. So that
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean that we should lock our kids up and
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: never let them go outside and never let them use
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: the internet, but we have to be aware of it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Everyone go to the website. It's stopthemovement.org. There's a place
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: to donate there. If you want to help out, you
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: can do that. but at least learn more about this. Sarah,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: thank you very much for joining us.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: More Truth Be Told with Booker Scott in minutes on
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: America Out Loud.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Someone asked me the other day, how do you even
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: get a sense of what's going to happen next? It's hard.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know that we can, the way the news
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: moves so fast. But you know what I told them?
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: I said, I've been checking out Polly Market a little bit.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: It's extremely insightful. You're basically watching how thousands of people
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: are betting on outcomes. Political elections, big policy moves, even
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: events you wouldn't expect. It's kind of like a live
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: pulse on what the public actually believes. And you can
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: see trends before they even happen and before they even
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: make the mainstream news. For me, it's not about gambling.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: It's about understanding the probabilities and where the momentum is shifting.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: If you like or love the news like I do,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: maybe you're a news junkie, but you want to take
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: a little deeper look at what people really think, go
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: to Polymarket. It's a fascinating tool. Polymarket.com. Can you believe
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: what we went through when Joe Biden was president with
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: all the weaponization of government? It's hard to really imagine
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: that this country could ever get to that point, but
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: we did. We most certainly did. And then when Pam
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Bondi says the things that she did on Katie Miller's podcast,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: where she says we're going to target someone for their
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: speech if They have hate speech. That bothers me. Even
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: though Pam Bondi is the Attorney General for Donald Trump,
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: it still bothers me because we should not weaponize government
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: in any way. At this point in this program tonight,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: we're going to welcome someone that I believe has been
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: one that has been targeted. And he's going to tell
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: his story. He's a veteran. He served our country. He
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: was injured. He was on disability. And completely, without him knowing,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: he was being investigated. He was eventually prosecuted, convicted, and
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: served six months in prison. It's an incredible story, but
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: we believe that he was targeted, and we believe that
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: it was government weaponization. And that's what we want to
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: talk about. His name is Jeremy Harrell. He is the CEO,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: the founder of a group called the Veterans Club. And Jeremy,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: welcome to the program. So good to have you.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. Glad to be here. I appreciate the opportunity.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Well, let's just tell your story. First of all, what
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: branch of the service were you in and where did
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: you serve? I'm assuming that you were overseas, but tell
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: a little bit about your background.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was in the United States Army and
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I served for eight years in the United States Army.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: And I went to Iraq during the initial invasion, 2003
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to 2004. spent 15 months there, come back, continue to serve,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: and really loved it until I couldn't do it anymore.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: And then I still had that desire to serve even
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: beyond the uniform. And that's about the same time that
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I recognized that I had some issues that I needed
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to deal with that were related to service. And I
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: would go to these programs with a desire to heal
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: and get better And as I was visiting these programs
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: across the country with other veterans, I kept hearing that
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: they didn't necessarily miss the job per se, but what
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: they did miss was the camaraderie that they had with
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: each other. And I thought, well, there's no reason that
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: we can't have that, even though we're not in uniform anymore.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So I decided with my wife to start what was
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: then a Facebook group called Veterans Club Incorporated, where we
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: could all get together and share that same camaraderie and
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: support one another.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard that before, that so many people that
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: were in the service, they miss that more than any
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: part of it. And that's, in a lot of ways,
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: the reason for homelessness, even. I've had many conversations with
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: people that know about it, and they say those people
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: that are living under the bridges, they feel more secure
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: there because they have that camaraderie that you were just
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: talking about. They look over each other. They take care
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: of each other just like they did in the service
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: because when they got out of the service, they really
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: didn't have anything. So your Veterans Club is a Facebook
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: page that you start, you and your wife do, to
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: try to help people that are suffering from the same
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: types of things that you were in. One of those things,
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: I guess, for you was PTSD. Is that correct?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. I have what's called complex PTSD or CPTSD,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: which means that I have PTSD from both my military
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: service in combat and also from childhood as well. And
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: so PTSD is PTSD. This is a little complex because
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: there's multiple trauma involved in that, but PTSD But yeah,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: when we started this Facebook group, you know, I wanted
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: to really, here's what I know is when you think
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: about how many people serve the country, you're looking at
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: about 7% of America. And so, you know, I always
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: thought that we were at a disadvantage because soon as
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: we walked out of our door every day, 93% of
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the people just don't really understand. Right. And I know
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: the majority of them want to understand it. I'm so
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: thankful that they do. And I hope they keep asking
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: questions and I hope that, Veterans keep answering them politely
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: and correctly. But I just wanted to connect with these
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: other vets to say, hey, you know, I see you.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I hear you. I understand. I know this seems odd.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I know that you probably can't talk about this with
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: everybody because they haven't seen what you've seen and experienced
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: what you've experienced, but we have. And I just wanted
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: to create a community within a community. And in doing so, Booker,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: it was very therapeutic for me because, you know, I've
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: been on 20 medications. for PTSD symptoms. And there was
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: no long-term success with those medicines. In fact, they caused
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: other issues. And so when I started helping people, I
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: started sitting down and having conversations with other veterans. That
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: was the greatest medicine that I've ever taken, so to speak.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: And it's like anything else. When you think that you
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: found a cure or a way to manage symptoms because
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: you're out focusing on other people, um, you want to
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: keep doing it, right? Because it's helpful. And so that's
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: exactly how this kind of originated.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: And you mentioned that you were in the, uh, you
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: mentioned you were overseas 2003, 2004. You mentioned you were
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: in the service for eight years. What year did you
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: get out of the service? And then what year did
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: you start the veterans club?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So I got out of the military in 2008, February 1st, 2008, uh,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: is when I got out. And, uh, I started Veterans
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Club unofficially, started doing things as a social group around 2017,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and then officially become a nonprofit in 2019.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Well, let's pick up the story there because that's where
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: the story gets good. And I think to get to
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: that part of the story, we also need to talk
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: about the fact that you were on disability at the time.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: The Veterans Affairs had made the determination. They had made
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: the determination that you were fully disabled and could not work.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I think you had bounced around some different jobs, but
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: they finally put you on disability. And that's how you survived,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: along with your wife, who is a professional and makes
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: a living. But you start this nonprofit organization in about 2019.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: You're on full disability and take off from there.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what I was looking for is an opportunity
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: to kind of give back when I could, when I
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: felt up to it. And see, the thing with mental
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: health is, you know, it's number one, it's not an
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: intellectual disability. You can be very much intelligent and be
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: disabled at the same time, but, but you have days
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: and sometimes there's consistent days where you really can't perform
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: or operate. And then there's other days where, where you
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: feel like you can. And so what I would do
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: is try to take advantage of the days that I could. And, uh,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: and so, you know, as we're, as we're growing this
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: organization and it grew very fast, um, I realized that
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: it was getting to a point now where it was
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: really no longer kind of a social group or grassroots.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: It was becoming one of the fastest growing nonprofits in
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: the United States that I wasn't going to be able,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: due to my limitations, to run this organization and keep
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: it going. And we were doing so many good things,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't want it to end. And so, you know,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: we hired people to come in to help, a director
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: of operations. We hired a chief of staff. We hired
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: an operating officer. We have a database full of volunteers.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: And the whole purpose behind that was because I couldn't
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: do it the way that I would like to do it.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: You couldn't do it physically. You couldn't do it mentally full-time.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Right. And essentially, I was kind of the face of
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: the organization, the story, and kind of the connector. But
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: as far as the day-to-day, it wasn't me doing the
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: admin task and things like that. It was me. It
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: was our director of operations and stuff like that. So
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: that's what happened. So, you know, we hired them. They
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: got acclimated. We started we you know, we created seven
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: nationally recognized programs. Our biggest program, equine therapy for veterans,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: first responders and their families. But also we're a faith
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: based organization as well. So we look at trauma from
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: a biblical perspective. Right. Not just what science says, but
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: also what the Bible says about these things. which oftentimes
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: makes you a target for some who don't want to
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: hear that or some who think that they could cut
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: into their profit, right? Because we were actually helping veterans
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: heal to where they didn't have to go through the
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: VA doors every single day because they were actually figuring
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: out who the great physician was and they were actually
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: leaning more on Christ. And I'm not apologizing for that,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: and I regret none of that. But the reality, though,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it hurts someone somewhere
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: because sometimes What I was doing for free, people were
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: making millions and millions of dollars doing it. And I'm
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: going to be clear, I didn't take anything from the organization,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: that mileage. I never paid myself anything. This was strictly voluntary.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: It was just a passion project. It was something that
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I got great benefit in, and it really lent its
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: way to my own healing in certain ways. It allowed
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: me to be a good father. It allowed me to
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: be a good husband. It allowed me to be a
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: functioning asset in society. And the other thing is I
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: didn't want to just sit on the couch all day
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: with empty pill bottles and just get a check from
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: the government. I wanted to be an asset.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: You wanted to have a purpose. Yeah, you wanted to
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: have a purpose, yeah. That makes sense. And you're going along.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Everything's going great. Again, you started from a Facebook group.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: You didn't have any aspirations or expectations of where this
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: was going to go. And as you said, it really
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: started growing in 2019, 2020. You have to hire some
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: people because you can't do it yourself. And then what happens?
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: You get up to 2021 and we have the withdrawal
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: from Afghanistan that was a complete debacle. that ended in
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: the death of 13 U.S. soldiers. You remember that. That
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: was Abbey Gate, by the way. So what happens then
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: at about 2021?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Well, so around that time period, we really started as
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: an organization, and then me as an individual started kind
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: of making a name for ourselves as a truth teller.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: As a changemaker. And so, you know, my job as
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: an advocate was to, you know, honor our brothers and
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: sisters in arms. And and when I saw what happened
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: in Afghanistan, I was very vocal about it. I did
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of media about how it was it was
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: the biggest botched military operation in military history.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: You weren't alone. You were not alone there.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Right, right. I mean, you know, it was impacting veterans
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: all the way back to Vietnam because something similar happened
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: in Saigon in 1979, and it triggered them.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: 75. It was 1975. 75, sorry, yeah. That's right.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I remember.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: I'm old enough to remember that. It made an impression
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: on me as a kid. That's one reason why I
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: remember it.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was very vocal about that because I
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: was dealing as an organization with the fallout. with folks
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: who have served in both of those conflicts, Vietnam and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the 20-year war in Afghanistan. And we were having to
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: have more support groups. We were having to have more
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: sessions for equine therapy. We had an influx of call-ins
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: of people who were suicidal because they felt like they
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: spent 20 years there fighting a war that was, and
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the country was turned right back over to the Taliban
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: in less than 24 hours. So I talked about that,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure that that during that time, our president
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: was Biden. And I'm sure that that didn't sit well
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: with the people who were, you know, loyalist to him.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And then there's some things within the VA that at
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: the time, that leadership that I felt like they were doing,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: their veterans were underserved and that I felt like nonprofits
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: had to pick up all the pieces and we had
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: to carry the weight of all of society's issues when
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: it comes with, you know, I was just very outspoken
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: that way. And I was talking to legislators. I was
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: advocating all the way up the chain to Washington, DC. And, and,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: and there were some people who didn't like it. Some
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: people don't like when the truth is told and exposed. And, and,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: and so when, when you finally find somebody who who's
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: willing to do that Booker, but, but without any incentive,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, because when I talk to people that I
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: know in politics and, They said, well, Jeremy, we're not
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: really surprised because here's why. You don't carry water for anybody.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: You weren't trying to be a millionaire. You were doing
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: this out of the kindness of your heart, and it
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: was pure. And those things are threatening oftentimes to the establishment.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: So going through all that, and then I won a
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: lot of awards personally in 21 and 22, and then
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden in October of 23— I had
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: just actually come back from a treatment facility because I
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: stay up to date with– I still have to be
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: in treatment probably for the remainder of my life for
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: these injuries.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Before you go too far, let me back up a
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: little bit because from 2019 to 2023, you had income–
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: for your foundation for the 501c3. I think it's important
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: to understand that because you are on disability. You get
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: that from the VA. And now you have income. But
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: as you mentioned earlier, already in this segment, you didn't
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: take a dime. You didn't even take gas money for yourself.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: And you also weren't really doing the work. You had
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: hired someone to be the director. You had a couple
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: of people hired for staff. You had a board of directors.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: You also had an advisory board. So you had all
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: of this going on. So the money that came in
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: quickly went out. Over four years, I think the number
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: was $ 400, 000 that you had. So now let's pick up
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: the story in 2023. Yes. And there's one more point
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: to that.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Is, is our intention as an organization was to not
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: to have a lot of money sitting around because that's
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: money that we could use to help our veterans in need, right?
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: So it was a point for us to spend that,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: but yes.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I should clean myself up here, Jeremy, too,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: because I made it sound like all the money that
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: you got, you spent on your staff, and that's not
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: the case at all. You spent it on veterans also,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: but I wanted to point out that you were not
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: necessarily doing the work. You were the face of Veterans Club,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: and you had hired people to actually do the work
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: because you physically and mentally just couldn't do 40, 50,
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: 60 hours a week.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so, you know, And I'll get to a
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: little more of the discretionary part of that a little
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: bit later. But you're right. I was kind of building partnerships.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I was making connections. I was actually doing staff retreats
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: for the VA's mental health program managers at our facility,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: believe it or not. It's weird how the complainant benefited
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: from our services. But yeah, so in 2023, I had
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: just come back from a treatment, a personal treatment program,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: and had just got back in. And I was sitting
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: down with the director of operations, and he was going
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: to brief me on what had occurred because I'd been
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: gone for two weeks. And then there was a knock
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: at the door. He goes and opens the door to
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: our headquarters, and it's two gentlemen, plainclothes, walk in and
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: just ask to talk to me. And that happens all
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: the time. We have an open-door policy, right? You know,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: they come in and they look like a couple of
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: veterans and they just introduced themselves by name and said, hey,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: you know, we'd love to have a conversation with you.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And I said, sure, let's go upstairs where it's more
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: private in the office. And we went upstairs and, you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: they started talking to me and asking me unusual questions.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: And very quickly, I recognized that this wasn't a conversation,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: that this was an interrogation. And so then I asked
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: them to disclose who they were, because at this point,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: they didn't let me know who they were. They didn't
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: identify themselves as federal agents for the VA Office of
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Inspector General.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: What kind of questions were they asking you that tipped
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: you off?
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they were asking me, you know, what my
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: role was there. They were asking me, mainly what they
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: were focusing on was, how are you able to do this?
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: As if someone with my disability should not be able
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: to do anything, right? And so I said, well... there's
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: a lot to that. We have a board of directors
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: who are very professional people who help this thing run.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I don't own a nonprofit. No one does. I said,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: but other than that, I said, I have an advisory
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: board to make sure that we keep between the rails
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: and we're doing everything the way we should. And then
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I said, of course, we have, you know, close to
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: 600 volunteers that help from time to time. I said,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and then, you know, there's me who, comes in and
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: does things as I can. Right. So, um, but ultimately, uh,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, God's at the center of this
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: organization and, uh, he, he really decides whether it's successful
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: or not. And luckily he's been shown favor.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of how I answered that, you know,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: and he didn't really like that answer, you know, and
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: he said, well, you're, you're permanently and totally disabled and you're,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: you're a successful nonprofit founder. And I said, well, okay. Yeah. Um,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: but I don't have, I'm not disabled because I have
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: an intellectual disability. Right. I'm disabled because I have an
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: anxiety disorder and I have some other physical things, but
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: they were primarily speaking on the, on the, the, the,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: you know, anxiety, the PTSD.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: So the premise is because you're on disability, you are
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: getting a check every month that you should not be
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: doing anything but sitting at home and watching Lucy or
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: whatever program you want to watch. The price is right,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: I guess. That is what they expect you to do
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: when you're getting a government check. You cannot start a 501c3,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: and you can't hire people, and you can't bring in money,
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: or otherwise you're going to get a visit from the
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: federal government. And that's some of the weaponization that we're
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: talking about. We're going to continue on with this conversation.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: You'll want to stay around for... the rest of this
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: because it's going to get really, really good here coming
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: up right after the break. Don't go anywhere. Stay with us.
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: I bleed red, white, and blue in my ways. You
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: just can't change. Wrong or right, I give my life.
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: This place called USA.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: More Truth Be Told with Booker Scott in a minute
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: on America Out Loud.
• 36:34
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• 36:36
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• 37:01
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• 37:05
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• 37:09
  Speaker 2: So now the ball's in your court.
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: Keep spending money with companies that frustrate you and then
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• 37:19
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• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Have you ever worried about someone coming to your front
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: door and asking to have a conversation and They take
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: you into a room and they start asking you questions
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: that you know exactly where this is going. Personally, I
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: never have. I can't imagine what it feels like. But
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: Jeremy Harrell does. He's visiting with us. Jeremy, let's pick
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: up the story right where we left off there going
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: into the break. You were upstairs in an office. You're
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: talking to the guys from the VA. They're asking you
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: bad questions. And then what happens?
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I very quickly realized that they're there
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: because of me, and they finally showed me their credentials.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: And again, they were Department of Veteran Affairs Office of
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Inspector General Agents. And at that point, you know, I've
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: never been in trouble in my life other than a
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: speeding ticket in 2008, but I did know enough from watching,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: you know, enough on TV, right, to know that I
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: should probably, you know, seek legal counsel. And so I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: told them at that moment that that's what I was
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: going to do. And the agent looks at me and
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: he says, I've spent a year and a half following you.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: And when you think about waste, fraud and abuse, spent
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: a year and a half following me. And he says,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I just want to tell you that you've done some
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: amazing things for veterans. And he hands me a court summons.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: And then he tells me that I'm indicted, federally indicted
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: for theft of government funds and that I had to
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: be in court on this day, which was only about
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: nine or ten days after that um and so they
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: walk out i go downstairs and i'm i'm mortified like
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: i just don't even really know what it all means
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: to be honest yeah all i knew about being indicted
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: was that our president, Donald Trump, was indicted a lot.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I knew it was legal, but I didn't know exactly.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: You knew it wasn't a good thing, didn't you?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I knew very quickly that it wasn't anything
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: that you want to be a part of. And so
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: the first thing I did is I went over to
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: one of our advisors' office. He is an attorney. He's
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: not a criminal attorney, but he's an attorney. And I
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: had him look at the paper and And he had
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: a tear in his eye and I'm like, what's going on?
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: He said, he said, Jeremy, this is serious. And he said,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand how they could do this or
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: why they would do this. And I said, well, I
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: don't know either. When, when in America, did it become
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: a crime to volunteer to help people with suicide prevention
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: and helping them get connected and getting the benefits that,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: when did that start being illegal? Right. I just couldn't
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: believe it. Right. And, uh, And, you know, the worst thing, Booker,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: that I've ever read to date in my life was
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: on that form. It said the United States of America
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: versus Jeremy Harrell. And I thought, how in the world
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: does a man who serve honorably in peacetime and in combat,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: how in the world am I now considered an enemy
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: of the country that the whole reason I'm in this mess,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: the whole reason I've ever had to get disability, it
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: was because of my service.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. So it's just still very difficult for
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: me to process, but that's what it said on the letter.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: You give eight years of your life to actually give
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: your life if you have to, going overseas and fighting
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: in battles, and then you come back here and you
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: start an incredible veterans club. to help other people that
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: had gone through the same thing that you have. And
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: the next thing you know, you get a knock on
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: the door, you get indicted, and then you go to trial.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: And let's talk a little bit about what they accused
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: you of and what you eventually got convicted of, and
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: you actually served six months in prison. Let's talk about
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: what they say you did.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what they say I did is, you know,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: they tried to say, that the day that I signed
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: my initials on a DocuSign with other board members of
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: the Veterans Club Incorporated, that that was the day where
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: I become not permanent, totally disabled, and I become employable
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: because I signed my initials on a DocuSign, right? So
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: now they're saying that starting in 2019, right when I
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: started the organization, funny how that works, that all of
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: a sudden I was doing something wrong. Right. And that
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: they think that because I was able to help veterans
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: and they were explaining it as if I did all
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: this by myself, first of all. But but they were
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: trying to explain to the jury, like, if he can
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: do that, if he can. They kept saying highly successful
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: founder and CEO that CEOs make a couple hundred thousand
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: dollars a year. He could have easily, you know, and
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: they're talking to a jury. That, you know, without without
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: sounding judgmental, we'll probably never see those numbers. Right. I mean,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: we're in the Eastern District of Kentucky. The economy is
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: not good there. And so I can they were trying
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: to manipulate the jury to go, well, how's this guy?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I have to go to work for 15
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: bucks an hour and break my back every day. And
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: then here's this guy. You know what I mean? That's
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: kind of the manipulation tactics they were using.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: So the prosecution was saying, okay, this guy has been
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: on disability the whole time. He is also the CEO
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: of this nonprofit that is bringing in hundreds of thousands
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: of dollars. And meanwhile, you're in the jury and you're
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: making $ 15 an hour. And so he's really, I guess
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: the way they do it is they say he's taking
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: advantage of your tax money because he's still taking disability.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: I want to point out that Well, you tell everybody
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: who said that you should get permanent disability. Was that you?
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Did you go looking for it? Tell us how that happened.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, so the
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: way the VA disability process works, which is still a
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: great mystery to most veterans in this country, let alone
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: a jury in five days. But yeah, so the VA,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: they put you through a series of exams. And at
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: the end of those, they're called compensation and pension exams.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: And it's where they talk directly about the disability. And
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: then at the end, they make a recommendation. They send
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: it to the Department of Veteran Affairs Regional Office, where
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: there are raters who actually look at the report from
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the doctors, and they compare it to some chart that's
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: kind of a mystery on what the chart is, and
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: then they determine your level of disability. I never said
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't a choice that I made. Right.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: So when they looked at the evidence and they looked
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: at all the notes of me in treatment, they come
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to the conclusion that I was unemployable, that I was permanent,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: totally disabled, that that I would never have any future
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: exams and that I was to try to enjoy my
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: life the best I could. It's basically how that went.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: But that wasn't true because apparently total and permanent doesn't exist.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: And apparently when they tell you there's no future exams,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: that only applies to some people, not anybody who's exposing
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: the truth, not anybody who's actually making a difference and
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: helping veterans get better and is a threat to the establishment.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: When it becomes that, then there is future exams and
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: all kinds of other what I call harassment and targeting.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: and weaponization. And so, yeah, so it's the VA who
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: determines your rate of disability.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you weren't doctor shopping. That's the point I'm trying
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: to make. They determined that you were disabled, permanent disabled,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: and you could not work. And you start this and
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: you're just trying to help other people. I'm just trying
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: to help. You didn't take any money from them. They
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: didn't pay even your gas money. And then you have
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: a knock on your door. You end up being convicted.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: The jury convicts you. and you're sentenced to six months,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: you also have to pay restitution because in a federal case,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: you have to pay restitution total. How much do you
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: have to pay?
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's getting up there around $ 300, 000 at this point,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: which is an astronomical amount of money for me and
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: my family. But really not a lot of money when
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: you think of the government. But not only did I
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: get sentenced to six months in prison, I also got
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: sentenced to six months home confinement after prison, which is
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: kind of currently what I'm on now. Of course, I
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: have different levels of freedom to do different things, but
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: it's still very much confinement. And then, yeah, I have
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: the restitution piece, right? That's the money that the VA
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: and the federal court says that they think that I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: owe the government.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: And when is that supposed to start? Let's start there,
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: because this is an interesting part of the story here.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the judge, when he makes the judgment, he
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: sets and defers my restitution out until March 1 of
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: 2028 at the amount of $ 100 a month.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Okay, so in 2028, March 1st, 2028, you have to
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: make your first payment of $ 100. And every month after that,
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: you're going to be paying $ 100 on your way to
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: paying off $ 300, 000. That is what the judge ordered when
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: you were sentenced. Is that correct?
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. That's absolutely correct. But that is not what happened.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: Okay, tell us what happened.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: So while I'm in federal prison, I get a phone
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: call from my wife. who says, you need to call
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: the attorney. I call the attorney. The attorney tells me
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: that the judge has ordered that I pay $ 52, 000 within
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: three days. Now, keep in mind, I'm confined in a
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: federal prison in Kentucky. I have no access to anything,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: barely the phone, right? And so I said, well, how
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: am I supposed to do that from prison? Well, what
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: they knew about me, Booker, is that But, you know,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: according to my history, in reality, I've been a real follower.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: And so what they knew that I would do, because
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I am compliant, is that I would ask my wife
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to get the money to get
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: to them in three days. But the problem with that
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: is I wasn't supposed to pay any of that money.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: But not only that, now they're bringing my wife, who
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: is not a co-defendant, who has no skin in the games.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Now they're forcing her to do things that I believe
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: is unconstitutional, but not even that. The money that they
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: wanted to give come out of an account that is
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: a joint account that her salary goes into. They didn't
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: even allow us to divide assets or allow us to separate. Exactly.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: They simply didn't care. They've been very venomous about how
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: they've approached this with me. You would think that I
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: have done some horrific crime somewhere, and in reality, you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: we help people stay alive. Right.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: Jeremy, why did that judge make that determination to come
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: after for $ 52, 000 right then?
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Well, that's still a question that we're trying to figure out.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: You know, somehow the prosecutors have been able to use
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: a loophole in law to try to manipulate the statues
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: in order to be able to take the money. And
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: they knew that I'd be in prison. I couldn't really
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: fight it the way that I traditionally fight things and advocate.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: And they just really took advantage of us in a
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: vulnerable space. But since January of this year, we have
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: given them $ 83, 000. Now, keep in mind, we're not supposed
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: to pay anything until January.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: March 1st, 2028. So let's talk about your future. Let's
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: talk about a pardon from President Donald Trump. He is
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: one that was also weaponized and targeted by Fannie Willis.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: by Letitia James in New York, Jack Smith in Washington, D.C.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: and South Florida. He felt what the Biden Department of
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Justice could do. And I would think he would be
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: sympathetic to your story because you have sort of gone
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: through the same thing. Where are you right now with that?
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: I know that Attorney Ed Martin, who is part of
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: the Department of Justice, appointed by Donald Trump, he has
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: been involved in some of this case. Let's talk about that.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Yes. So, you know, very quickly, we made the determination,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: speaking with a lot of prominent attorneys in the United
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: States about this case, that they, number one, there's not
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: another case like it. I think that's important to point out,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: the way the details are in this case. This is
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: usually an administrative action. If the VA thinks you're getting better, well,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: then they just do it administratively. It's not criminal proceedings anymore.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: So I have attorneys who have experience with pardons and
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: clemency who have presented my case before Ed Martin in Washington, D.C.,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: and it was very clear after that meeting that it
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: was considered weaponization at its finest. And in fact, this
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: case is an ideal case For a pardon, and that's
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: not just my opinion as a person involved here. This
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: is the opinion of many lawyers, some who have been appointed,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: has worked with Trump in cases that he's been dealing
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: with in New York and have reviewed this, who have
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: said that if there's any case that should be pardoned,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: this one's won. And so, you know, the case has
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: been presented to Mr. Martin. It's been presented to the
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: pardon czar, who is Alice Marie Johnson, and it has
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: been sent to White House counsel. We have also had
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: assistance from Senator Rand Paul's office. We have done a
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: lot in Kentucky together. He's been an avid supporter of
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: our programs and has been present at a lot of
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: our events. He also understands exactly what I do and
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: why I do it. And so at this point, it's
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: a waiting game. We're hoping that whenever the president decides
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: to do more pardons, that my name will be at
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: the top of that list.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: Did Ed Martin send a letter to the U.S. attorney
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: in Kentucky and ask him why he prosecuted you like
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: he did?
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: So what happened, according to my attorneys, is that once
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: they presented the case, Ed said that he wanted a
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: statement from the He actually tasked them to get a
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: statement from the Eastern District of Kentucky on why they
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: charged and what they thought about me potentially getting clemency,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: because apparently there's a formal rule where they get their
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: say right in how it goes. And so my attorneys
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: sent an email to those prosecutors in the Eastern District
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: of Kentucky, and they were not happy to receive notice
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: that my case had been presented. in front of Mr.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Martin and that he was requesting that they send him
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: additional documents about the case, an explanation about the case.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: And so they sent that form directly to the Office
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: of Pardoned Attorney. And so from my understanding, they did
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: receive that at the Office of Pardoned Attorney and that
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: that part is considered closed. But my lawyers did call
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: and say that in the many, many years they've been
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: doing this, that they haven't seen prosecutors be so angry
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: And it seems so personal.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: This was back in June, correct? When Ed Martin sent
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: that letter to the people in Kentucky, the prosecutors in
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: the U.S. Attorney's Office, is that correct?
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: So that was June.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: June, July.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then did you have a garnishment in your
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: bank account as a result of that?
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: So that's another one of those million dollar questions, right?
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: So not only did that occur, But everything was very
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: quiet once I was released from prison. A key part
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: of this story is that, in reality, I was detained
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: nine days longer than I was supposed to. And so
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Savannah Chrisley, who you may know from her family just
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: being pardoned, and the director of the BOP, Billy Marshall,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: they caught wind of that and advocated for my release immediately.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: And I actually got a call from the Bureau of
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Prisons director, Billy Marshall, personally about the fact that they
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: kept me too long. Right. And so I didn't hear
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: anything from prosecutors until I got notice that there's a
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: law firm in D.C. called Paul Weiss Law. And it's
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: very familiar. It's been in the news recently where they
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: have promised the Trump administration $ 40 million in pro bono
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: attorney work for causes that the administration supports because of
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: a little feud they had. I'm not too familiar with it,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: but I know that they kind of owe this work
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: to the Trump administration. They got on the case for
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: an appeal. for the money, the restitution. And so when
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: they got noticed that this law firm, it's a very
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: powerful law firm, was on the case, they started the
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: collection actions immediately, and it almost appears as if they
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: just want to try to get what they can while
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: they can. I think there's a fear there that I may,
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: in fact, receive a pardon, and I may, in fact,
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: receive relief on these garnishments and these financial penalties. And so,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: you know, they're just kind of throwing things at the
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: wall to see what sticks.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: His name is Jeremy Harrell. Go to that website, support them,
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: support their work. Jeremy, thank you so much. Hang in there.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: Good luck to you.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: I'm Booker Scott, and thank you so much for listening
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: to The Truth Be Told on America Out Loud tonight.
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: Coming up next, it is Unleash the Political News Hour.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: And don't forget, you were told 2,000 years ago that
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: you are the salt of the earth. And salt without flavor,
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: it has no value. So whatever you do, keep being salty.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: Have a great night.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: There is only one truth. You've been listening to The
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Truth Be Told with Booker Scott on America Out Loud.