Latest / Skin Anarchy / Lauren Balsamo, Deputy Beauty Director COSMOPOLITAN Magazine Interview

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Lauren Balsamo, Deputy Beauty Director COSMOPOLITAN Magazine Interview · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Stingture Anarchy.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is Ekta, and I have with me today's Deputy Beauty Director for Cosmopolitan, Lauren Balsamo.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Lauren.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, thank you for having me.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's my pleasure.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to get started by you telling us about your career background and what got you into beauty and you know how you got to where you are now.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um I've been in the industry for probably like eight years now, which feels like a really long time.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I started, I think I was most interested in magazines in general at first.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: I've loved magazines forever, just like the whole experience.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then when I had my first internship in PR, I was doing beauty and fashion.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, what is going on on the other side of this relationship?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, who are these people that I'm pitching?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like that really seems like the job that I want.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I did um a few internships at Hearst and then finally landed a freelance beauty assistant role at Cosmo.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: And God, it was print only back in like 2013.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I've been there ever since, which is really crazy.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, my job has changed so much since I started, started out.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I started out on a team of five people who only did print, and now I'm on a team of five people who literally do it all print, digital, social.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it's um it's changed a lot and and for the better, I think.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that must have uh really increased the responsibility, right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you got it's like digital and print, no.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think like um listen, I think we all love print and it all has a special place in everyone's heart, but I don't necessarily think you know, you don't you don't see new print magazines coming up every day.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: So um I think it's just really important to be able to like diversify and be able to create content on multiple platforms.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I want to dive deeper into like your day-to-day role and like how it like you know what what can you walk us through like the day?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what do you um usually have to deal with during your day and um the decisions and stuff that you have to make?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I feel like if you asked me this question this time last year, I'd have a really different answer for you.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: But now that um I work remote and all of Cosmo works remote, and you know, it's it's just a very different world.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: My day-to-day is really different.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: But um in my hybrid team, I mostly oversee our print beauty content and then contribute to digital.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I'm always working with my digital counterpart and the other director on our team to sort of make sure that like everything is everything is happening that needs to be happening.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're out in the marketplace, we're we're covering the stories that need to be covered.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: But um, for print specifically, it's interesting because you know, we work really far ahead.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right now, our team is working on the May June issue, which are like May June, that seems like a lifetime away.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but a lot of the day-to-day is you know, editing a ton, writing, sort of planning strategically how our content will live, whether it's you know, imprint in digital, is there a social rollout component?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, sort of planning for shoots, which are happening remotely over Zoom, which has been really interesting to sort of Oh wow, yeah.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, we've done a bunch of shoots this year, but I haven't been on any, which is really interesting.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a lot of um, you know, I actually think the good thing about shoots or a positive about shoots on Zoom is that you have to be even more collaborative and flexible.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it feels a little weird as an editor because you're like, I have no control over this.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like you, I'm um they're in LA and I'm here in my house in New Jersey on Zoom.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um but the end result I think is always really special and it's just a different way of working that we all have gotten used to.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I can imagine that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I actually want to like take that conversation a little further because um I know that there's a lot of you know, a lot of new perspectives and a lot of new things that have come up now, you know, and since COVID started, with every you know, everybody being at home.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you were um touching on that earlier about you know Cosmo being remote, but even for the consumers and the and the readers, like what are some of the challenges um now that everyone has been at home for literally like forever now?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, yeah, you know, maybe that you've had to face, you know?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think there's like pros and cons to both.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that COVID has made everyone in the beauty space a little bit more just like like everyone's just more self-aware, I think, and for the better.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, things that seemed like, oh my god, I'm freaking out over my breakouts seem so trivial and ridiculous that you need to like put things into perspective.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really important.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to get wrapped up, you know.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: At the end of the day, I always say, like, it's we're talking about lipstick and crate face creams, and like while they're empowering and important and like you know, a part of our everyday lives, you know, it's it's nothing worth like losing your mind over.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I think I think to that point COVID has hope helped people put things into perspective, but it's also, I mean, think about like I just saw on Instagram today that Becca, which is like a brand that I've loved since I first started working in beauty, is closing in the fall.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, you have to think that that's definitely a downside to COVID, is that like how can these brands, you know, stay afloat and continue to like make products and keep people engaged in like such a crazy world?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean that's the I think that's the one thing about beauty that I always find interesting is that you know, it's not just about like a cream or a makeup.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like people use it as like a way to feel good, even if you're shopping, you know, and like you buy something you really like, like that feeds into like the whole consumer experience, right?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like uh, you know, I I just find it interesting how like buying habits or you know, from a reader standpoint for a magazine, how that's changed, you know, because of the pandemic.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's interesting.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which I I think specifically from like a shopping and like we like listen, there's nothing better than treating yourself to like a cool new beauty thing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I also think like we have to be aware of the fact that people have lost their jobs in COVID, people are like working reduced hours, you know.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: It it feels like a little tone-deaf to recommend a hundred dollar cream when there's people who, you know, uh most people are like in a financially tough situation right now.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's a like how can we make people feel good about making these purchases, but also advocate for make people making these response these purchases responsibly?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I actually, you know, for me growing up, Cosmo was always this like really um cutting edge kind of magazine, you know what I mean?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like there was always like the articles and the topics were always like kind of breakthrough.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: They were things that nobody else is really talking about.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So how has uh you know, how has that been for you, like just growing within the magazine itself?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, has that kind of stayed the same?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen it shift?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, um in terms of the yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I think to something that's really interesting is I totally agree with you.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think Cosmo is like really incredible at telling young people and people who are, you know, in their 20s, early 30s, like what they need to know to live their life to the fullest and best.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I also think there's something really cool about how print and digital are working together now, and that we have so much insight from um digital as to like what our reader is craving, what they want, what they're interested in, that we can create content that sort of strikes a balance between giving them what they want, but also telling them what we think they need to know.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I think you need that anyways to be a good publication.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's good though.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's interesting.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when I was doing print only, like you're we're not like creating content based on insights, you know, we're we're sort of being like, what's a trend?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: What's upcoming?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's this expert that you've talked to that has told you this?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, what's something interesting and reported?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, of course we still do that, but I mean, I also think it's interesting, like we have stats that like 99% of our reader is concerned about acne.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously, we're really gonna lean into acne.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I think um, yeah, it's definitely a mix of what's cutting edge, but also like what do people just need?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: What's like the real genuine service and information that they need?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, listen, we all have access to like Google, but how much misinformation is out there that if we can be a trusted source for important information, I think that's that's really important.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, it's it's interesting to me because I think that you know, beauty publications have such an impact on not only the youth, but even like those of us that grew up with them, you know.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so like trusting the advice of editors and beauty directors has kind of been like this um, I guess a culture, you know, especially in the millennial generation.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it really has been.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um the transition to digital might be some I mean for me, it's interesting because I just wonder like how people consume that information now versus before.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it makes sense everything you're saying.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I I still like to think that editors are like the OG influencer in a way, but of course like everybody has a like a platform and something where they can give information, which I think is great.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, the more the merrier.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like the more information and options that you can give people, like gives them a better opportunity to make an informed decision, whether it's like buying a product or like finally making a trip to the dermatologist to address a skincare concern or something like that.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to actually talk to you about that in terms of dermatology and um the medical science behind skincare, um, especially, how has that changed?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, in terms of like, because obviously in the last few years, you know, I think everyone's noticed like skincare, especially has gone a lot more towards this medical side, you know, and people want more answers, they want more uh explanations more than anything, I think, you know, especially about ingredients and um what something can do for their skin.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, how has that changed your role?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, have you been, you know, working more with dermatologists?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, have you what have you noticed that's changed um with that?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I definitely think that everybody, like the amount of information, you know, just to we were talking about before, is because there's so information that so much information that people who like everyone's a mini dermatologist.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I talk to even friends who are not in the beauty space and they like they're familiar with niacinamide and like forms of vitamin C.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just like, that is so impressive, you know.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um to that point that doesn't replace regular, like regular dermatologists.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: There's a reason that people go to med school.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think in terms of content, like even just the stories we would put out, like in the past, it would be like, I don't know, TK ways to fade hyperpigmentation, and now it's a deep dive on like azolic acid or something, like such a specific ingredient that maybe two years ago knew and knew about.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I also think a lot of that has to do with brands who who come out with products that are ingredient-driven, you know, it's not like a glow serum, it's a niacinamide serum.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I, you know, I actually want to ask you, Lauren, because I have a hard time understanding how in the world um editors and beauty directors, how you guys deal with um sifting through all these products that are pretty much saying, okay, this is our main active ingredient is it's the same, you know what I mean?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like five different products.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how do you sift through that to find, like, for example, like the best vitamin C serum that you're trying?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you just do you go off of your own personal results or like you know, what what's the research behind that for you?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: It is like an undertaking.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that for, and obviously, like, you know, I have one face and like only so many areas of skin to put products on.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um also sensitive.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, like the more I try, the more likely that my face like turns into a tomato.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I think a lot of it is the first is I always look into like the brands.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is this brand about?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do they have it, especially for skincare?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do they have a team of consulting dermatologists?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, are they are these these aren't just claims that they're pulling out of thin air?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do you have clinical studies?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are they third party or is it like something you did in house with like people who worked on making the product, you know?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's a lot of like, you know, we can't all just take every like boost radiance by 90% at face value because we'd all be like, what are we doing here?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, so I think a lot of it's just digging into like looking to see like what's their RD team look like?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Who are they working with to create this?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, also flip it over, like, is vitamin C the last ingredient on the ingredients label?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, right, right.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, I think the way that products are regulated in the United States is interesting, where you can kind of say a lot and it doesn't actually mean anything.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: So as a consumer, it's really your responsibility, which sucks, um, to have to make sure that what you're paying for actually is doing what it says it does.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that's the place where editors and you know, dermatologists and influencers can be really helpful because they're dedicating their time to sort of sifting through the thousands of launches and drops, you know, every month to find what works.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, I would say basically it's a mix of like trying things, looking into brands, looking into what studies they've done specifically for skincare.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, sometimes it's even helpful to just look at reviews as a really good starting place.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like there'll be times where I'm just like sifting through Sephora, like looking at things, and I'm like, oh my God, this has like 2,000 five-star reviews.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is this, you know?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: So it's I think it's taking information from all different places to try to make a like a really smart decision.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that makes sense, a well-rounded approach, you know.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's pretty much how you should approach every single professional field, you know, and and that's really good to hear that that you know, you kind of go off of also consumer feedback.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's very important because right now I think for skincare that I'm noticing at least is that there's a lot of brands, obviously.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there it's almost as if um the focus is not only on the skincare, but it's also becoming more around this, like, you know, the brand journey and the brand vision, and like people are really trying to connect with their consumers on more than just a, you know, this is skincare, buy it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're they're really trying to connect with people.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um in terms of that, um, what are do you have any advice for new brands about that?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because like, you know, I think that that's something that you know, new entrepreneurs struggle with is, you know, I came out with this great line, but how am I gonna connect to people?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And how am I gonna get people to not only buy it but believe in what I'm doing?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's it's a really tricky question.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think first and foremost, there's so many brands that sell a wonderful brand journey story, and then I try the products and I'm like, this is terrible.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I think number one, you need to have a good product.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't care how good your story is or like where your magic ingredients are sourced, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the first thing.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, I would say is, and I hate to like, I think this is the most overly used word in the beauty industry, but I hate to say the word authentic, but there's like there is a level that people can see through that, you know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like don't don't make a don't make an acne line and like then have pictures of Instagrams with not a single person with acne, you know?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Also, I think people there's there's a really interesting balance, and we talk about this a lot of like imagery that's aspirational versus imagery that actually reflects the consumer.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you know, and especially with acne, when we write about acne, like listen, who doesn't want to see a picture of like great skin in a magazine?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, oh my god, I want glowy skin like that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: But also, like we need to see pictures that represent ourselves.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: And if we're gonna talk about acne and like sort of and even if a brand's gonna talk about acne and say, like, hey, it's okay if you're breaking out, but if you want to try this and then not show any pictures of people with acne, like that's a really big disconnect.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: How can you connect with that?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I think for me, I think you know, I also think most people find brands now, like whether it's through a friend or through Instagram.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and that's why I'm actually asking you this because I think Instagram, especially, I'm not gonna lie to you, you know, a couple years ago when I was just looking at Instagram from this like influencer perspective, and I had a lot of, you know, like fellow influencers I was following and stuff.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was just almost as if who took the better picture and did that sell the brand?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I had such an issue with that because don't get me wrong, I'm all about good marketing, you know what I mean?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and that's great, but like it almost created this environment and this culture of, well, is it pretty enough to buy?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of the products that were getting promoted were the products that was the$150 cream, you know, or like yeah, and it was just the packaging thing.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to always wonder, and this was like even before I started the podcast, like, how do people look at this?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you looking at it as if it's it's like, oh, I really need this for my skin because I don't have a good hyaluronic acid in my regime, you know?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you saying, I want that so that I can also take a picture like that and put it on Instagram?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I it's so interesting.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that's interesting too as an editor.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, my first thing with packaging is like, is this the correct packaging for the product?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I see vitamin C in like an open jar, it makes my skin crawl, you know.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, this is definitely not stable.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's my first thing.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then what I think is so important and exciting is that I hope and I feel, and I'm trying to push through the content we create that packaging first and foremost, is it sustainable?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Is it is it eco-friendly?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Is it is it not putting our planet in a in a worse position than it was before this product was made?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like I could not care less if it's like gold plated or millennial pink or you know, handmade wherever.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, can I recycle this?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is is I think the first question we should all be asking when we're buying beauty products.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually wondering, um, you know, this is just my own thought is like where why when are we gonna get to a point where it's like a single use sustainable thing?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like where you're not buying bottles and bottles and bottles of product.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know it's I think it's hard.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think first off, it starts with consumers demanding change, you know.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: So if all of a sudden people are just like, nope, I'm not but I'm not buying face wipes anymore, I'm not using sheet masks, like not sustainable, like that single use or like those skincare pods, you know, that you like open up, put the mask on, and throw the pot out.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think people just need to be like, I'm not using that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, if people don't buy it, brands aren't gonna make it, right?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I think a lot of it just starts with education.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: I still think when it comes to sustainability in the beauty space, people are like, this is something I feel like I know I should know about and I should care about, but it's very confusing.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just gonna like let someone else figure it out.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I see that mentality all the time, and you can't blame people.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, how are I don't know where you live, but like recycling is confusing everywhere.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the the terminology of like what things are made with is confusing.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: People uh you know, so I think it's it's twofold.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: We need to like be better as a society of explaining to people like the implications of of creating trash and like where things are going, and then people understanding that situation and telling brands no, like if this if there's not a refillable option for this shampoo, or like this bottle I can't recycle, or this isn't con this isn't made from like PCR materials, like I don't want it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean I get that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just wonder because you know, I know uh back like a few years ago, dermatology was this like you know, buzzword that people were using to sell skincare, you know what I mean?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like medical grade skincare or clinical grade skincare.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now I feel like it's sustainability, you know, and I think it's and then and I'm wondering who are the experts we go to about sustainability?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because now everyone can say, Well, I can go to a dermatologist and ask them, is this really gonna work or not?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: But then you have another brand that's not even concerned about the dermatology side, they're just selling products so like you know what I mean, like solely based on their vision of be, you know, creating a more sustainable beauty world.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, then who can I fact check you with?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know who the experts are.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: I totally feel you.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I find this so interesting.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, okay, a beauty brand creates itself out of nothing with the premise of being sustainable and creating less trash, like that's their angle.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's interesting because there's already a gajillion beauty brands out there, there's already a lot of great sustainable ones.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: So why are you bringing another product and more trash to the space if, like, you're not giving me anything else?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean by that?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a totally different thing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very interesting thing when I hear brands pitch themselves.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like my dream product would.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Be like backed by clinical trials, like vetted by dermatologists, comes in sustainable packaging, and like you know, isn't ridiculously overpriced.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, why can't more of that exist?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, just like good solid skincare, tried and true ingredients, but like not in you know, superfluous plastic packaging.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And minimalism at its finest, right?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, like like if you're really, if you're really trying to be sustainable and if you really believe in that, then buy make a product that consumers don't need to buy 10 times in a year, you know, like exactly.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Or focus your efforts on education because that's where the real hole is.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: We don't need baby brands, we absolutely don't.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: We need people to educate people on how to shop smart on like what ingredients skincare like are actually doing, and like then what they can actually do with these products once they've finished using them.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, I I run into this problem, so I can only imagine what you have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is like sometimes when you're listening to those brand journeys, where it's just like, well, I just really wanted it to be a great sustainable brand.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, well, then let's because you don't get any answers.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's that was my that was my point.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for if you ask a dermatologist, they're gonna give you answers.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not getting any answers, it kind of like for me defaults me into asking, okay, well, then let me ask you what you're doing for the environment.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are you working on a charity?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Are you donating your, you know what I mean?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Your profits, are you anything, you know, other than just saying, hey, I made a line and it's sustainable?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, it's I I think to your point exactly, like, who are the experts in sustainability?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like, there's thousands of them, like self-proclaimed sustainability experts on Instagram, but like, what does that even mean, you know?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think like we have a qu like it's a perfect example.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: If I have a question on like a new ingredient or like the mechanism of how something works in skin, I can go to a dermatologist, a plastic surgeon, and I can be assured that they're answering, like that they have authority.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Where, like, when I have questions, even in my own writing, on like, oh, like this type of plastic, like, can it be recycled, like whatever?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't, I'm very confused on who I'm going to, and I'm just doing my own research, which shouldn't be the answer.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: It really shouldn't be, because none of us are experts when it comes to the environment.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, and I'm thinking about the when I think of the environment, honestly, Lauren, I think of EPA, you know, environmental protective agency.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Go because why?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, from a research standpoint, I remember when I was younger, I did like a project on this fungus that was eating textile dyes that were, you know, being dumped into the oceans.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, like for me, like that's what I think about when I think of sustainability, you know what I mean?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Something that's really doing something to like take it away from the environment so that the our natural resources don't have to deal with that, you know what I mean?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like digesting it and and decomposing it and all that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for me, those brands again, I want to direct them towards science and be like, why don't you partner up with a lab or like a you know a researcher that's working on something that's gonna help reduce the waste created by chemicals that are found in, for example, sunscreen or you know, a lot of these products because a lot of them are very damaging to the environment, right?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you you can even go in the science direction with that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't see anybody doing it.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I definitely, I mean, there are definitely some brands who are partnering up with like Terracycle, which I think is like does an incredible job of educating and like helping collect people's empties so they can properly recycle them.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um when I see brands like partner with like a to your point a sustainability expert, that to me is like a good, it's a green flag.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, like this, I feel good about writing about this brand, like they they feel like they're they're doing something right.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like telling me if you if you pitch me your brand and you're just telling me that like you know, this ingredient is made from wildcrafted roses and packaging is made with like plastic that you can then recycle.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm like, okay, well, number one, you still created new plastic, so there's a number two, I'm like, shouldn't the roses be in nature?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is there a better way to create like an ingredient in a lab that like is safe for our skin, but also like not taking away the earth's natural resources?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know, there's there's a lot of and a lot of like question marks that like pop up in my head when I'm on these like brand zooms and dust sides, and I'm like, am I missing something?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but you know, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start a hashtag for just this episode, save the roses, just for you.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I loved it.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you said that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't they be in the environment?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right, where are my flowers?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think the trees need to purify our air.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Shouldn't they stay in nature, not on my face?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean so it's just really interesting.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and I'm I'm really like super into that whole space, like clean, whatever people want to interpret that word is sustainable.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's it's the future, it's what people want.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: I just think there's a lot of ironing out that needs to happen before we can all fully embrace this and jump in.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that also concerns me too, and I completely I completely 100% agree with you, by the way, especially with the word clean.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I've ranted about this enough in my previous episodes, but like truly, like, can we please stop using and this to all the marketing all out there, right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, can we stop using words before we understand what they mean?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because by the time that the companies come around that are actually gonna be doing this right, there's gonna be again the same problem of saturation in the industry.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not gonna be able to come up.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to like burn people out, you know?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like if if we're gonna make better, smarter choices for ourselves and the environment, like let's do it right and not just inundate people with like a thousand new products that they're just like, oh, I'm overwhelmed, I'm turning my brain off.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, clean is a really interesting word, I think.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, listen, I think you can you can think of it two ways.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, well, are the other products dirty?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, obviously not.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's more of a word that we're just using to sort of group together as an umbrella term these brands that are conscious of the environment and conscious of ingredient stories from a health perspective.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: I wish there was a better word for it because, like, quite literally, like, it doesn't mean everything else is dirty.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I, you know, it's it's interesting because clean isn't really natural, right?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And no, it's not, it's not, yeah.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Clean isn't really sustainable, but it's kind of just like become this umbrella term for this category, which like listen, editors use it because it's like, okay, well, if brands like Sephora are using it and that's how we're talking about these products.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like, okay, but until we find a better word or a better terminology, or until people are better educated to understand these sort of like nuanced subcategories under clean, it's it's a murky and tricky conversation.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right, I completely agree with you.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, it's it sucks because the editors can only write about what's available, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: You you can only use the resources available.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to see for anyone listening out there, if you're an entrepreneur or if you know somebody who is, let's work on that.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you know a person starting a skincare line, maybe tell them to hold off a little bit and do, you know, do more research because I think there's a lot of like room for growth in the industry.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong, I really do.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a it's a beautiful thing, you know, coming out with self-care products.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's great.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, at the end of the day, it's it's just face cream, you know, and it's like if you you need to put a little bit more thought into it than just saying, Well, I'm a single mom who loves face cream and I made it in my kitchen, and here we go.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm gonna slap on 15 words that I can use as hashtags, and I'm gonna sell the crap out of this, you know.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's that is like my biggest pet peeve.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just like, also, just because you like skincare and you've decided to like do DIY in your kitchen doesn't mean you're qualified to now sell products to people or give them skincare advice, you know.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's not even always about like, you know, it's not even about like do you have the credentials to sell, you know what I mean?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Something like that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's more also, is your product even good?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I made this point earlier about this one line.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've heard of it, but Tolula Skincare, they make the best, like Lauren.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I when I say the best, I'm not joking with you.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the shea butter and the it's a body butter.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've written about that brand before.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: I really like it.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: I did a zoom, um, I think her name is Lauren actually, with the founder like a couple months ago, and she sent me a body scrub that literally smells like dessert.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, um, one of the shea buttons, and they're amazing.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a very big fan.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, but also to her point, like she's making those in small batches, so it's interesting.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Some brands can like really nail it, but for every great brand like Tulula's that I see, I see a thousand god-awful ones.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly, exactly.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the thing, but because you know, I I I I talked to you know, the founder of Tulua, and I was talking to her, and she's always she was telling me, she's like, I just really want to get the name out there about my product.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know, we were having this discussion, kind of like the same thing, basically, what you and I are talking about, but like from an entrepreneurial side, right?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she was just like, I just want to sell good body butter, you know what I mean?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was like, that's my goal, is like I know this stuff is better than every like 99% of the stuff I've tried because she uh I think like her journey was like, you know, she has eczema herself.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, her point was like, I'm making something really good.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: So why am I not making the millions and millions of dollars that I see somebody like drunk elephant making when my product is legitimately very, very good, you know?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that's that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is like, don't saturate the market so that brands like this can't even come up into the limelight as much as they should.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what I love about her brand?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm blanking on her name.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's Alexis.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Alexis, Alexis, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Why I was like blanking, but I really love how, and this is something that I find really interesting is when small brands do a few things really well.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you don't need to have a thousand skews, you don't need to do this in like 50 different flavors.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I just really love when a brand can be like, I like if you want a body scrub or you want a shea butter body cream, like come to me, like I am your person.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like being able to be that authoritative and be like, no, I make the best one is like very impressive to me.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, just uh sticking to it.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if your first product doesn't work, don't make another one.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like try to figure out why it didn't work.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's one of the biggest things.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't just keep coming out with products, fix the ones you have or take them off the market and then it's you know, figure out why it didn't sell, you know, that kind of thing.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: So 100%.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think we need more, we don't need more, we just need better.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Better, exactly, exactly.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And even with clinical skincare, I know um, for example, for me, um, you know, I always gravitated towards medical grade skincare, you know, um, especially because I had acne, you know, growing up.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like dermatology had a very special place in my heart.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, even with clinical skincare, I see that now it's a whole different, you know, ball game with clinical grade.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I love, for example, Dr.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Laura Dave Gunn's line.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: She her line is like hands, I think it's the best hyaluronic serum I've ever used, the best retinal serum I've ever used, you know, that kind of thing.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, but it's still not her line, still doesn't have like 10 million followers, like it should, you know what I mean?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or like what it's just it's it's nuts to me.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like even science done right.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do we need to do to sell things to the masses, you know, like change the culture, you know what I mean?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like change the marketing culture, I guess.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's interesting, and I mean, I think it's why like anyone who's an editor, you're like your your space and the products you write about, it's precious, you know.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like you want to be able to like give room to brands and elevate brands who are just like really doing it right, you know.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: So every time I see a small brand like Tulula or something else, and I'm like, God, I love this, and like I need more people to know about this.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's where editors and you know, influencers, like that's our job is to be able to make sure that these small brands that are gonna be like a game changer for people that they're aware about, they're aware of, even if they're not finding them at Ulta or Sephora.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, Lauren, I could honestly talk to you for ages.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is awesome.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I really want to ask you, um, what are your favorite products right now for skincare that you're using?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, this is hard.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's the hardest question.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I am very into like medically backed skincare as well.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think anyone who's ever had like a real skin issue, like acne, eczema, hyperpigmentation that's stubborn probably feels the same way because you just kind of are like, I need the shit that works.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um currently really I'm really liking curology and Rory.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: So they're really similar.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but they're how you like take a like a do a consultation online and then you get um compounded a prescription grade or prescription strength cream.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I have both.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: They're both like retinal as like compound as like acid compounds, and I love them.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're great.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um I also really like how you know we don't all have the time or the resources to get to dermatologists, especially if you don't live in a city.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: So the fact that you can get that sort of one-on-one time with an expert and then a product specific for your skincare needs is I think so clutch and really, really cool.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I'm a fan of that.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm a big sunscreen user.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm currently using the say um uh what is it?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: Their new sun visor, I think it's called.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's their sunscreen.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I love Massa sunscreens.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: They just launched a new one.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm such a fan.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and Shawnee Darden's new eye cream, obsessed.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I never heard of it.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, it's so good.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: Is it out yet?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, watch me spilling the beans and I shouldn't have baked them, but it's it's so good.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, those are sort of the things that uh that I have like um that I'm looking at right now in my nightstand, and I'm like, oh, I like this stuff.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you listed an eye cream because eye creams are so tricky, like I there, they're just so many, and the the good ones are hard to find.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna definitely check it out.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: You hold on to it.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: I used to think eye creams were nonsense.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I started using one religiously and I was like, they're not nonsense, they actually do something.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: They work.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have actually I have to sit.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, um, lid, you know, when I get really tired, one of my lids like you know, it just lags a little bit more.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that ever since I started using eye creams, and well, New Face has been a huge, you know, for me, it's been like a game changer, but like it's definitely helped, you know what I mean?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, and that's like an actual medical condition.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just I that's the kind of stuff I love, you know what I mean?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's over the counter, but it works, and it's you know, you see a real difference.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I hear you.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Eye creams are you know hit or miss, but if they work, they work.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm a big Cera V fan.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: I use um like a few of their cleansers and just their basic, they have a PM moisturizer, but you can use it for morning or night.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't really matter.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a big fan of drugstore skincare that like really works, and I think CeraVe is a drugstore brand that you can you it's just great results.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a perfect compliment to anything that's like you know, you you might buy an expensive serum and you want to say, Okay, like where can I save on a moisturizer?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Ceree is a great moisturizer.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, CereVee, I think they make just beautiful products.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love their stuff.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've really never used the Cerevi product I didn't like, and that's hard to say about a lot of any other brands.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Same, no, same.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I know it's it that's very real, though.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Cereby really is one of those brands that you know, I it's dermatologist trusted, it's consumer type, you know, trusted, editor trusted, you know, it's yeah, it's really, really good.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you're just like, and that that sometimes is what gets me in your like, okay, this is a really good face wash, and it's a big size, and I can conveniently get it like the Dwayne Reed or the CBS by my house, then like why is this face was face wash at Sephora$78, you know?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: Things like that, and you're just like, okay, you know, because it's sustainable, Lauren.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's sustainable, it has to be$78.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's come on now, you have to sustain the company, shit.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's because it's me for body crafted roses, okay?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's why it's$78.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: We also threw some orchids in there, so the price is gonna go up$20 extra dollars because there's some black orchids in the mix.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I love it.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely actually I might just start a line with you.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be the botanical garden.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Lauren Nectos Botanical Garden skincare.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Every overplace flower we can find packed into.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Lauren, though.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so, so fun.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I would love to have you back anytime.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this was a great time.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad we got to chat.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody out there, I hope you guys love the conversation.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, leave us some feedback, uh, leave some questions for Lauren, and I will definitely pass them along to her.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, rate it, give us some feedback, you know, give us five stars because you know that helps us.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I hope you loved it and I'll be back next time.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 39:09
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• 40:16
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