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Cardinals Season Autopsy, Offseason Questions, Concern for Walker? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn. And, boys,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the season is now officially over for the Cardinals. They
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: finish up by getting swept. Now it's over. They've been
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: eliminated for a while from postseason, but now it's officially over.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: They finish up by getting swept by the Brewers in Milwaukee,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a three-game set. I think they lost nine of their
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: final 11, not great, but a lot accomplished this year
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: for the Cardinals as they rebuild. So Lance, I'm going
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: to start with you, your thoughts on the season that
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: we just saw from the St. Louis Cardinals.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I think if you take it as
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: a whole with, with, with the projections were right, it's
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: a positive. Um, there's a lot of, uh, players that
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: took steps forward where we wanted them to, um, the
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Walker Burley, JJ, um, You know, we saw some things
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: out of the pitching staff we liked. We saw some
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: things that need some growing, too. So I think all
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: in all, it was a productive year for the team.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I think they overachieved a little bit. I think they
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: would have overachieved even more if they didn't play the
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: way they did at the, you know, the last 10
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: to 12 games like they did. But all in all,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: productive year. I think you got to see where you are.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: At the big league level, I think we've seen where
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: they are as an organization prospect-wise, and now we can
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: see Haim do his work to put a winning product
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: on the field at the big league level because he
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: has all the tools prospect-wise, and he has a good
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: young core that he can help build around.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: In free agency. So I like where they're at all
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: the way around.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: So on a season, Kyle, where you ditch the big
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: contract guys, right, and stockpile a lot of minor league talent,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: which Haim did. tip of the cap, and you have
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a team that plays some exciting baseball, ends up with
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a losing record. But wouldn't you consider what the Cardinals
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: were able to.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Do a plus? Absolutely, it's a plus.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think you have a couple times during
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: the year where a couple core players were hurt. You know,
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: you missed Mason Wynn for a little bit of the year.
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: His defense obviously was huge. You missed JJ Weatherholt for
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: a part of the second half, which could have been
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: affecting him for a lot more than what we even know.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: So I don't know that we.
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: Got to see a full season of JJ Weatherholt healthy.
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: Starting pitching and pitching in general, I think We've talked
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: about this before. The athletic training staff and the strength
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: staff can get a huge hat tip because I feel
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: like over the last few years, they've had some of
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: the least amount of injuries. So knock on wood going
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: into next year, but I think that's a big bonus.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: And going into next year, you see the pitching numbers there.
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: I think they have a really good handle on the
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: direction they want to go there. So that should be
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: exciting for Cardinals fans. And I think it's a fun
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: style of baseball. It's a style of baseball that has
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: great defense behind pitchers that have some swing and miss,
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: but also lower walk numbers. And they can get strikeouts
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: when they need to. I think they have a chance
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: to improve the bullpen if we're going into next year.
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: They traded away a couple pieces of the bullpen, which
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: was huge, but Going in and actually let's fix the bullpen.
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: Let's maybe figure out where we can add. And if
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: Haim and the guys think it's time to go for it,
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: then I think Cardinals fans are going to be pretty excited.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: But overall, there's some pieces here too that when you
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: get a full season of them, I think everybody will
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: be very excited. A full season of Leo Bernal, Baez.
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: We've got some players here that have a chance to
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: make it very exciting.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: And I think it's.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: Easy to kind of look at the team that finished
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: the year and say they did a good job. But
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: if you look at who they got rid of, To
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: start the year, Nolan Arenado just had to step up offensively.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: I know it's in Arizona, but we know what his
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: defense does, and we know offensively he had a better year.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: The Cardinals had some success even after getting.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Rid of him.
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: If he's on the team, what does it look like?
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: They traded Dustin May partway through the year, who was
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: a big piece of the rotation. I mean, and Lars
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: Neubauer got traded. There's some pieces here that were subtracted
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: from this team, and they still overperformed. So overall, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: think it was pretty good.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And they never really did solve third base, so we
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: saw Blaise Jordan look good before he got injured. But
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I think that might still be a question mark going forward.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: With Arenado, did post good numbers, always post great defense, too.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Kyle, are you saying if they would have had Sonny Gray,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Dustin May, Nolan Arenado, and Wilson Contreras, they'd be a
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: playoff team?
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: You know, I mean, does it hurt? He is saying that.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: You know, like, I don't know.
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: I don't want that to sound like critical of how
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: I'm here.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Did we say in the offseason that they should have
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: a young core and we could add it with the
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: guys that they have?
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. Absolutely. We said that.
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: And that was without adding Dustin May, right? If you
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: just take Dustin May out and leave Sonny Gray, this
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: is possibly a playoff team if you have those guys there.
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: And this has been our qualm and kind of our
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: back and forth with Cardinals fans.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: And I'm not saying they're wrong all the time.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Sorry, you would have had Donovan too.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. Oh, I completely forgot about Donovan.
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: You've got a package of players here that have you
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: just injected J.J. Weatherholt, inject Leo Bernal, I mean, I
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: think this could be a playoff team. And that's what
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: we were saying.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: And I don't know.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We paid their salaries. None of the
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: prospects did anything in the big leagues. And they were
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: on other teams. Man, it would have been nice if
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: we would have paid their salaries on our team and
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: see if we could have made the playoffs.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Keep going.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: I just think this is where I don't think Cardinals
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: fans quite– understood what they were signing themselves up for
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: by asking for a rebuild right and like all young
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: prospects don't always just automatically work and clearly the fans
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: didn't show up to the stadium like they normally do
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: so it's not like they wanted to watch young players
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: have go through their ups and downs um But, yeah,
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, I do think it's interesting. Had they had
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: those guys, where would this have been, considering they're eight
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: games under.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: 500 and, you know, the Phillies struggled down the end?
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: This is where you look at the window, and I'm
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: talking too much, but you look at a playoff window
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: and you try to compare yourselves to other teams.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: You're like, oh, well, are we better than the Phillies?
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Are we better than the Padres?
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: Like, you're just going to decide at the beginning of
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: the year that you can't make the playoffs because those
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: three wildcard teams are better than you?
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: I find that hard to believe, but I also think
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: the fans would be more excited to watch an 85
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: and 77 team instead of a 77 and 85 win team,
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: or the other way around, 77 and 85 loss team.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: But I hear you, Lance. Would be interesting.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: There is nothing better than watching Lance Lynn execute a
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: passive-aggressive cross-examination on this podcast.
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: I totally agree.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Well done. But let me ask you this, Lance, in fairness, though.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: So I think the grade's incomplete because those guys that
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: you talked about, they couldn't, to be honest, well, have
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: made them a playoff team this year, brought back prospects
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: that could pay off in the future. So wouldn't you
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: say it's fair to say that we sort of don't
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: know whether or not that was the right decision at
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: this point, or am I wrong on that? and feel
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: free to cross examine to me.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Um, I, yeah, obviously it's going to be a, uh,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: a grade that was going to be later, uh, brought
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: to the table on what it actually grades out as. Um,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I think if you look at the, in two years
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: from now, if Fitz and Dobbins and, uh, shoot, who'd
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: they get back in? Uh, they got, I mean, they
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: got an A ball guy back in Nolan. So who
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: knows what that's going to go. Um, So, I mean,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: you're looking at, and what they got in Donovan, pitcher
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: looks pretty good, the switch pitcher. So, you know, it's
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: going to be interesting to see if those, like in
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: a year from now, let's say in a year or
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: two from now, if those guys are helping the push
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: to the playoffs, then yeah. But here's the truth of
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: the matter. Those guys individually aren't going to get them
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: to the playoffs or they're not going to bring enough
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: to the table, in my opinion, in the first two years.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: of themselves being in the big leagues, unless they add
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: around like they need to in the off season. So
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: we're in the same boat. We've got the same young core.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: We've got the same things. We've got some things that
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: have taken a step forward. JJ showed up. Now we
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: still got to add, and we still got to add
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: around the guys. We traded away an ace. So they
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: need an ace. We traded away a hall of fame,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: third baseman. They need a third baseman. We, you know, Wilson,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: we could have traded away and still filled the void
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: with Herrera and what we did at the DH spot.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: So now in the offseason, they have to go get
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: an ace, a third baseman, and they need to get
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: somebody that they can start in center field every day
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: and be a difference maker. And then Church can be
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: the fourth outfielder and go from there. And then they
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: need two back in bullpen's arms because they traded those
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: away too. So now we'll wait and see what they
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: do with what they showed this year.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Fair enough.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: I think it's interesting. I think it's interesting here.
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: Also, Donovan probably, even though he was injured, right? So
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: it's not like he had a full season.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: He was injured.
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: He did post a 780 OPS in his 39 games
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: he played.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: And he had a hit again.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Or third base.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: Or third.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: The third base and is above average defense at third
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: base so now your infield for next year is locked
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: in with two three left and a right.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Large large fix the third or the left field issue
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: or center field issue.
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: Yep um and i one thing that this kind of
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: takes us to an unrelated topic but you have three
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: players there that get you comp picks by giving by
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: offering them uh the the what am i i'm blanking
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: on the competitive offer what am i qualifying offer the
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: qualifying offer so you have three players there that you're
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: going to give a qualifying offer between wilson sunny and
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: donovan most likely right So are we saying that we
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: don't value those picks anymore? Are we saying, are they
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: going to think that that is going away and they're
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: going to use that as a bargaining chip in the CBA?
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: Just interesting to think about where, yeah, you keep those
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: few players, you're possibly a playoff team, and then you
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: get those qualifying offer picks after.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: But obviously they didn't want to do that.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: They had team options on all of them for next year.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I think you're right.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: It looks worse and worse the more we talk about it,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: because they could have been a playoff team this year.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: All right, keep going.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: All right, well, they're all related, because one of the things.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, we were going to talk about Haim's grade.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Let's go straight to that one.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: All right, you want to do Haim.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: We already did a Haim.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Grading system go ahead give me your thoughts.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: On it's a it's a let's see where it goes
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: it's a c right now it could be an a
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: if the prospects look great it could be a c
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: because it could have been a playoff team this year.
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: I think that's fair too that's not like that's not
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: unfair for you to say i mean The goal of
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: a franchise is to win and to try to make
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: the playoffs every single year and try to win a championship.
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: The moves that they made were not championship moves, right?
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: It was championship maybe down the road, but not for
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: right now. So I think that's fair. I think with
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: what he did, I would give him better than a
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: C because he did replenish the farm system. The multiple
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: minor league teams had great years and the players that
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: are coming up have done really well. So I think developmentally,
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: the changes that have been made are working really well.
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: I still think Mo gets a little bit of this
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: good grade, but I do think that what they did
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: this season was a success. Could it have been different? Yes,
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: they chose, they had a split in the road. They
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: chose the one way that has gone well. The other
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: way they could have chose could have gone well also.
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: I think that's really what we're trying to say.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: So Lance, wouldn't you say that the Cardinals were very
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: transparent in what they were trying to do. Like to me,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Hein basically said, we're not going to sacrifice anything that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: we need in the long term for the short term.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: To me, that's basically saying we're building for the future.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And if you look at the trades that he made,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: now granted, those guys could have helped this team get
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: in the postseason. I understand that. And I think that's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: a reasonable point. But the guys he got, And he
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: didn't just get one or two. He stockpiled a bunch
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: of the number one asset, which is controllable young pitching.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Down the road, this thing could turn out great. I
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that they were honest about
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: what they were going to do this year, don't you?
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think when he took over for Mo,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: from the ownership down, it was shed payroll. I don't think,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: here's the thing, it was all about shedding payroll, and
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: they did that. So he did what his job was
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to do. And then they turned it into a rebuild
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: because when you're shedding payroll, you have to say something besides, Hey,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I'm shedding payroll. Um, so he did his job, what
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: he was brought in for. Um, he got some good
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: prospects back. Um, we'll see what they become as major leaguers. Um,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the minor league systems are good. Uh, you know, a
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: lot of these guys that have come up this year,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: we're in the system, been in the system, um, guys that,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: that Mo got. So, um, When it's all said and done,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: he did exactly what he was tasked to do by
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the ownership, and he spun it in a way that
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the fans are going to have to understand is we
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: are totally resetting our financials to see what the new
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: CBA looks like, everything. Were they transparent on that? No,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: but they were telling you what the rebuild. Rebuild means
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I'm getting rid of money to see what I have
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: in the future, and I'm going to see what the
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: future holds. And that's what they've done this year. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the future is bright. based on the prospects they have
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and what the team did by overachieving a little bit
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: this year. But now the question is, what are you
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: going to do? And this is the fans, right? The
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: fans question is, what are we going to do to
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: add around what we have to make a big league
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: team relevant for playoff push? Because they have the young
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: core that they need for that. And that's what they
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: said they were waiting to see. So they've shown that
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: now it's, What are you going to do to put
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: a playoff caliber team in the fans' mind is spending money.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: And you have to spend money for the holes that
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: you have to make a playoff push. So that's going
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: to be what the offseason looks like for the Cardinals.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: But like we've all talked about, what's the CBA going
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: to hold?
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And I feel like if they don't spend any money
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: right away and then there's a lockout, that's what they've
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: been waiting for to see what the new financial structure is.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: of each individual franchise will look like moving forward. And
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I think that's what we've been waiting on the whole time.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And another great thing about this season is we got
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: to see what guys can do with a full season
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: under their belt. A lot of it worked out pretty well.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about that after we take a short time out.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: You're watching Cardinal Territory on the Fowl Territory Network.
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: Kratzy, just because the website says the tickets are sold
• 16:11
  Speaker 6: out doesn't mean you can't go see the Brewers in Milwaukee,
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: see the Dodgers in L.A., see the Rays in Tampa Bay.
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: You can go to SeatGeek and find the best seat available.
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: Pick wherever you want to sit and buy one.
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: There's no bad seats in Milwaukee because the stadium is
• 16:27
  Speaker 7: right on top of the field. It feels like you're
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: in the grass. L.A., just don't get a seat near
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: the speakers. But you can find out where the best
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: seats in each stadium are on SeatGeek. And of course
• 16:38
  Speaker 7: I have a code for you guys. You can use
• 16:40
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• 16:44
  Speaker 7: at SeatGeek. That's 10% off any tickets with promo code TERRITORY10.
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: Make sure you click the link in the description to
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: download the app and have the code automatically added to
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: your account so.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: You can use it later. And you know what? If
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: your team's not in the playoffs, it's no big deal.
• 17:01
  Speaker 7: Because SeatGeek's got you for tickets for NFL, for concerts,
• 17:05
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• 17:07
  Speaker 1: So one of the guys we found out a lot
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: about was Alec Burleson. And what he showed us is
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: he could lead Major League Baseball in runs batted in.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: 116.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Not too shabby. Here's the other thing that I like
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: about Burleson. Not only do I think one day that
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: guy's going to be a gold lover at first base,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: because I think he will, but with runners in scoring position,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Burley hits. 358.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: You've got to be kidding me.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: We've seen this guy grow into that Middle of the order, Kyle. Kyle,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: since you dropped out, I'm going to toss it to you.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: What has impressed you the most about what you've seen
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: from Burley this season?
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: I think the RBI number is pretty impressive to lead
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: the league in RBIs. One thing Burley does is he
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: is really good at making sure his approach fits the situation.
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: I think it's something that is completely underappreciated in the
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: game today. It is go up there and take your
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: swings and do as much damage as possible every single time.
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: And I think Burley picks and chooses his times to
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: do damage, which I think is a very, I think
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: it's an important quality to have. And I think if
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: you're going to be hitting in the middle of the
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: order with guys on base, I think that's an important
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: quality to have. And I think that's why his runners
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: and scoring position numbers, so easy for me to say,
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: are so good because he's willing to take a single
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: the other way and not just always be driving the
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: baseball in every situation.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: And Lance, one of the things about Burley, and Brent
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Brown told me this, is that he's a disciplined hitter,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: but he's also a gambler. And he likes high pitches.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: He likes pitches out of the zone. So you think
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: you're going to you know, get him with a high
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: fastball and all of a sudden it's a two-run homer,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: he's difficult to pitch to because you don't really know
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: how to attack him because you don't.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: Know what he's going to do.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the main thing is he can take
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: away your best pitch and he's ready for it. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: if you throw it in a spot where he thinks
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: he can barrel it, he will. So he's not afraid
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: to extend the zone to go after the pitch he's
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: looking for Instead of people be like, oh, he swings
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: out of the zone. It's no, he was looking for
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: that pitch in that vicinity. And that's why he swung
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: at it. And he's able to do damage because he's
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: prepared for that. He's prepared for the guy's put away pitch.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: He's prepared for the guy's best secondary pitch in the
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: spot where that guy throws.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: It too much.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And he knows he can put the barrel on it,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: especially if it's in a spot where he can do
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: some damage. So, yeah, it's preparing. It's the ability to
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: control the bat wherever you want to. And it's ability
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: to be a professional hitter as in he doesn't have
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: to have it in one spot. one certain area to
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: do damage. He can do damage anywhere he wants, especially
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: if you're going to throw the ball that he's looking
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: for and he's going to put a good swing on it.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: So that's why it's hard to pitch to because you
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: can make your pitch where you want to. And if
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: he's looking for it, he's going to barrel it. And
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that's always a pain in the butt.
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: I didn't realize one thing about Burley until I heard
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: somebody on sports radio talk about it. I didn't know
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: that his lefty righty splits were were quite as drastic
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: as they are. That's one thing that I'm sure developmental-wise
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: he wants to change. I pulled him up real quick.
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: I mean, against lefties, he's a 549 OPS hitter. So
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: you can imagine against righties, it's 939. You know, that's elite,
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: elite against righties and not good against lefties. So hopefully
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: that's something that maybe, you know, it's an adjustment. Maybe it's,
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: you know, how are lefties attacking righties? Him, maybe he
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: can make that adjustment because if he raises that a
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: little bit, man, you're looking at a player that pretty
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: easily could get close to that 850 to 900 OPS
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: at an offensive position. And like you said, Jim, with
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: gold glove defense. I mean, we're talking about a guy
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: that becomes a really above, above nearly elite player if
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: he can just make that adjustment against lefties.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And you look at Jordan Walker now, what he accomplished.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Really an amazing season, right? Not only an all-star, after
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: looking lost for a couple of seasons, home run derby champion,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: finishes with 29 homers, 102 RBIs, 22 stolen bases. And
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: you talk about improving defensively. Looked like a different guy
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: out there. Confident, scares the crap out of base runners
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: because they try to take an extra base on him.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: They're done. But he had a bad September, and we
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: saw him fall back into some of the patterns that
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: got him in trouble in the early going. Is there
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: any concern, I'll start with you, Lance, on this, about
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: regression with Jordan Walker? Because if you look at what
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals did this season, they got middle-of-the-order guys ready
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: to go. The stuff you guys talked about that they're
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: going to have to figure out, those are ancillary pieces.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: But Walker has to be Walker, and hopefully he can
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: take it to another level But some people are concerned
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: that maybe he'll regress. Is there any concern on your
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: part for that, Lance?
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I think there's always a concern because it's only been
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: one year, right? And it's been, you know, that last
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: month wasn't the most ideal for him. So I think
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: there is a concern for it. But I also think
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: you're looking at a guy who the last couple of
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: years has not played a full year in the big leagues,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: has not done the things he did this year. So September...
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: gets tiresome for a, he's still only 24 years old, right?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: So I think what we saw this year, the adjustments
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: we have are positive. Even if there's a touch of regression,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: he's still a really good major league player. But if
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: this is who he's going to be, this is awesome.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say it. So I
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: think it's obviously, you can worry about the regression, but
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I chalked up September was hot, long year, A lot
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: of success this year, a lot of work put on him,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: and a lot of things that at the end of
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: the year when you're out of it and stuff like
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: that and it gets hot and you've put together the
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: season he has, things have a tendency maybe to slip
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit. And I think that's going to be
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a learning experience for him too for when they're ready
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: to go to make the playoff push and have to
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: play into October, which is what everybody wants moving forward.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: So I think he put together a good year. I'm
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: happy with it. I think no one can be mad
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: about it. We can sit here and nitpick the last month.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: But when you look at the overall numbers, he had
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: a hundred RBIs. He almost had 30 home runs and
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: he hit two, almost two 70. So if he hits
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: two 50 with 25 and a hundred next year, are
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: we going to call that a regression? I think, Hey,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: we call that a really good major league player now. So,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: and if he takes any step forward, he becomes what
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: we can call an elite player and guy that you can, you,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you build your whole franchise around. So, Right now, him
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and Burley together are what you want. And then if
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: they take a little bit of a step, Burley takes
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a step against lefties.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: They're in a really good spot.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Walker takes a little bit of a step forward.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Now, what do we have?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: We've got really good players, one through four. Now, what's
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: the rest of our lineup going to look like? And
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: that's when you start developing a championship-style offensive team.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: I mentioned Kyle Pace. next level for Jordan. Cause he
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: is young. I mean, to me, I look at this
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: guy and I'm thinking this guy's going to be a 30,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: 30 guy. You don't see a lot of those. And
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's tapped into all his athleticism. You
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: don't see big guys move like that very often. I
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: just think the sky's the limit. I'm hoping, what would
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: you like to see from Jordan Walker say next season
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and beyond?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Hey, you're going to push this 30, 30 thing, but
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: that's how you get big fellas hurt and get worn
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: down at the end of the year. So, Take your
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: stolen bases when you can. If he gets 20 and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: hits 35, I'm okay with the 30 home runs, but
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: don't be pushing 30 bags just to get them because
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: that's when big fellas get worn down, especially when you
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: get older.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I still love seeing it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: It's an exciting thing to really dream about. Not many
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: of those guys are out there. I think it's easy
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: to forget Jordan Walker, if I remember right, was an infielder.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: So the athleticism and stuff like that doesn't surprise me
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: at all. I mean, I think looking at the numbers here,
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: just kind of looking into September, strikeouts went up a
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: little bit, walks went down a little bit, probably a
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: little bit of fatigue set in there. So, I mean,
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: it was a tougher month for him. But overall, I
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: think if you ask anybody, including Jordan, you say, hey, Jordan–
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: No matter what the months look like, you're going to
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: get to the end of the year, and we're going
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: to get you 30 homers and 800 OPS.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: And what do you think? Everybody would have said yes,
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: all right?
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: He's almost a three-win player with a WRC of 20%
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: above league average.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: That's awesome.
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: If you want to nitpick, all right, let's cut down
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: the strikeouts a little bit, which I'm sure he wants
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: to do. I think it also matters when those strikeouts are.
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: You know, I've said it before, but baseball is a
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: game of when. You know, if we can have those
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: strikeouts be in certain situations where it's not as impactful, awesome.
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: But when guys are on second and third and no outs,
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: that's the time where baseball calls for a non-strikeout, right?
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying he struggled in those situations because actually
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: it was second and third as I was looking, he
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: was a stud, right? But baseball is a game of when.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: So if we can lower some of those strikeouts, I think,
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: you know, some of those other numbers will tick up
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: and naturally he would creep toward being the player that
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: he really wants to be.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: He hits everything hard. That's what I love about him.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: When you get to September and you're chasing 30 home runs,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: strikeouts have a tendency to tick up, too. So that
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: could have just been a young kid chasing a number, too.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: So all in all, good year, great year for him,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: It was a great year.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: Great, great.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially considering where he came from, right? A
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: lot of doubts out there, and he just– Pushed it
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: aside and.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Began to play.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: I think the thing that can't be overlooked a little
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: bit is playing a solid defense when you're really struggling
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: hitting is tough to do.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: All right?
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: That is not just like I know fans just think, well,
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: just go play defense. I've always thought that position players
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: get confidence from their offense, okay, and pitching can provide
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: consistency for the team, okay? So when a position player
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: is struggling offensively, they don't just turn on the confidence
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: meter and just go, Oh great, I'm fine. No, they're
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: graded on their offense. 100% of the time, defense just
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: makes them an above average player or an average player
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: or below average, right? Everybody is focused on the offensive
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: numbers from the outside world. They feel that weight, they
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: feel that expectation. So that's just, that's kind of just
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: how it is. So, um, I think the defense ticked
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: up because he felt so much less pressure because he
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: wasn't performing offensively like he had been the last couple
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: of years.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: And getting more familiar with the position he wasn't really
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: used to. You mentioned he was an infielder. Last thing,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you guys brought up the starting pitching. Look, we all
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: agree the bullpen needs a fix. To me, that's the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: easiest thing to fix, right, to me. Let's talk rotation
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: because we're running out of time here. If you have McGreevy,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: you have Palante. you have Leahy, maybe you have Matthews
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: in the mix. I kind of feel like the Cardinals
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: have enough really solid pieces to build a rotation going forward,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: regardless of who's in, who's out. I like the pieces
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: they're bringing back, and they're young guys that got more experience.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Just your thoughts on what these guys can be in
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: the future.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think Kyle, I don't know, Kyle might.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Not like this, but they have a group of pitchers
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that make you have a quality rotation, but they will
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: not be great. They need, they need two top-end guys
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: to be an elite rotation. They have the depth and
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: the pitch ability to be quality. But if you are
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: looking at playoff World Series caliber teams, they have two tops.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say it.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Top of the rotation, ones and twos. I like all
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: of them.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: I think all of them, if you slate them in
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: at three, four, and five in your rotation to start
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: the year, you're going to be happy. But If you
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: go one through five with them, you're saying we're going
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: to have to score some runs and we're going to
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: have to play good defense because the strikeouts aren't there.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: And that's pretty much it. But they've all had a
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: good year.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: But when you want playoff teams, you need a little
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: bit more swing and miss.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: At the top. There's really no other way to say it.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I left Libby out, too.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: He's in the mix, too, and we love Libby. Or
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: you have to build your team a little different.
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: You know, I mean, to be– To be a World
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: Series contender, yes, you've got to have the Sonny Gray.
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: You've got to have one of those guys at the
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: top that you can throw out there in the game
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: one of a series.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: Hello, Stella. Are we going for a spirit win already?
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: It's the end of the season.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: Is that why you're showing her a spirit win for
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: the Cardinals already?
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: No, because she busted the door down to come on.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, there you go. Okay. You just wanted to say hello.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: Yes, I think to make the NLCS or the World Series,
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: you've got to have that guy that can get you
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: two starts in the series that you know you have
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: a great chance of winning.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: He's going to match up against the other guy. It's
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: a two-to-one ballgame. Can we win?
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: To be a playoff team, I think these guys can
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: do it, really. I think if Libby takes a step
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: forward like Palante did, I think those six guys that
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: you named can be a four ERA or below starting
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: pitching staff. And then if you have above average defense
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: like they played for most of the year, and if
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: your offense steps up and becomes a top 10 offense,
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: you can make the playoffs with those guys.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: I think you can.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: But I do think where they go with the rotation,
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: I don't think the Cardinals are going to sign anybody
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: into this. Well, they might sign some people into the CBA,
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: but there's going to be a freeze on the CBA signings, right,
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: on the player signings. I don't think the Cardinals are
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: going to show anything until we start to figure out
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: where that's going to go. But I think the moves
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: they make will really tell us if they're going to
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: take one more year to build this thing up or
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: if they're going to try and make the playoffs. And
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: I think the one thing that it shows is do
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: they go get a starting pitcher. If they go get
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: a one or a number two, then I think Heim
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: believes this group is ready. If they do not, and
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: if they get another one-year deal to see if they
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: can catch another lightning in a bottle like they did
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: with May, then I think they're half in, half out.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Fair enough. All right, that's going to do it for
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: this edition of Cardinal Territory. Stella says thanks for watching.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: We'll see you for the next episode. Hopefully that one
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: won't suck.