Latest / Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD / Ask Emily: Your Personal Questions on Career

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Ask Emily: Your Personal Questions on Career · Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: We're going to do another personal deep dive Q and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: A with your questions for me from Instagram. And I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: have asked Alex to help me out and ask me
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the questions which I have not seen in advance.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: So let's have a little fun.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: All right, Welcome back everyone, super excited to do this again. So,
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: as Emily said, as a reminder, these are all questions
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: from all of you from Instagram, And like last time,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: we're going to start with a little warm up of
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: questions that are sort of short and fun, and then
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: we'll dive into a series of questions today about your
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: career Emily, okay, and how you manage it all. So,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: what are some of the strategies or supports that you
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: have in place to make everything work? And I'm sure
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: you have some very deep insights.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm totally ready to share my deep secret insights
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: with you, and everyone else is saying.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, tricks that we can all just use. Okay, great,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: So warm up. What time do you go to bed
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: and wake up?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I go to bed at ten and I wake up
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: sometime between four forty five and six, depending on the day.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: What's your favorite thing to make for dinner in under
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: fifteen minutes.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think any dinners can be made in under
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. Oh no, that's not true. Casey d is,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Casey d is.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: What's something that you like to splurge on?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Running shoes? Like? I have so many running shoes? So many?
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Are you willing to share? How many you have?
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: No? But it's more, it's more than one. I'm going
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to say more than more than two. It's it's a lot.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: What's the last book you read? And what's the next
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: book you're planning to read?
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: So the last book I read was Prince Harry's Spare,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: which I think is an unoriginal answer because it is
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: what everybody is reading right now. And the next one
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: on my list is a book about Magellan's journey. I've
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: forgotten the title, but it's about Magellan. He went around
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: the world. I guess that's like a spoiler.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: How have you made friends in adulthood?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: When we moved to Providence, we had to make a
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: bunch of new friends, and the main source was the
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: parents of children that my kids were friends with.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: And I find that's often.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: A good way into friendship. But I will say I've
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: really retained a lot of the friends that I had
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: from you know, college, and that's kind of my still
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: really my core.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Nice all right, your last warm up is what's your
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: go to karaoke song?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: And eating my Taylor Swift?
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, for those that know Emily, that's not surprising.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: That surprising?
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: All right, Well, that seems to be a good transition
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: to talking about your career, just to start off, like,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: how do you describe what you do to people?
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: It varies quite a lot, So I think typically what
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I would say is I'm a professor of economics. That's
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: often what I would open with. And it used to
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: be I would stop there. Now I will often say,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm a professor of economics, and I write books
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: on pregnancy and parenting, and I write a newsletter for
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: parents about data. And that shift sort of reflects the
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: fact that much more of my time in the last
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: year or two years has been spent on the parent
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: data universe relative to in my more traditional economic pursuits.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: So what is your job? Exactly where do you work
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: and what do you do every day?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: So my title is the JJ E.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs University Professor of Economics at Brown University and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: so I come in every day and I work on
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: research and teaching and writing at Brown University.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: That is my official job.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, so that's what you do.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: What did you want to be when you grew up
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: a scientist?
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of aspirations around I don't know,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: hard sciences, and I like doing research. I mean, I
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: think I have always been quite interested in research from
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: a very young age.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: But I thought I would do you know, like science research.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Do you feel now like you went into the right
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: career field?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Definitely, it's of course, it's like there's always sort of
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: hindsight is twenty twenty, and I'm really happy with where
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I am professionally, and so I think that it was
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: It's hard to then say, oh, that was the that
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: was the wrong choice. But I think economics has really
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: allowed me to develop a lot of tools that had
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: been useful in all of the spaces that I'm interested in,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and that was why I got into it in some
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: ways in the first place, and that is it has
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: delivered on that.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Do you remember when that change happened, switching from wanting
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: to be a scientist to becoming an economist.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, it was the summer after my freshman year in college,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: and so, like to give you some background, when I
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: entered college, I took both economics and some hard sciences.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: My parents are economists and you know, something that I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: had done. So I'm in high school, and so I thought, okay,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I'll take like the you know, intermediate economics or whatever.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: And then I was also taking various science classes. I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: took organic chemistry. I took this like very ill fated
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: class in genetics, which I took with my best friend,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and it met quite early in the morning and we
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: would sort of like switch off who was awake, you know,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: you like, stay away from head and then we try
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: to like share notes, which, as it turns out, is
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: not like a super effective note taking system, even though
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: her notes were very good at any rate. So I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: had sort of taken that. And then I was working
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in the summer, and the summer I had two jobs.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I had one job working as a research assistant for
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: an economist named Chris Avery, and then I had another
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: job working in a fruit fly lab. And my fruit
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: fly lab job was like a very traditional lab job.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I had to dissect the fruitfly larval brains into pieces.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: That was like the most interesting component of my job.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: And then there was this other component where I had
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to like incinerate the fruitflies, like when you transfer them
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: between tubes, then you have to like put the old
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: tubes in this like incinerator, and then I would have
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to like take them on this cart across campus. And
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: at the end of the summer, I was like, this
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: is not for me. And I really liked the research
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: job I was doing with Chris Avery, which was about
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: education economics, and then I sort of pivoted from there.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: So fruitflies are really the make or breakpoints for you.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think about it, it seems like I'm
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: being so negative about fruitflies, which are a very important
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: organism from which we learned a lot. But I think
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: what I got that summer was that it was going
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: to be a very very long distance in the hard
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: sciences between the kind of work on the ground I
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: was doing and the sort of big questions that I
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: thought were exciting, and economics is a little bit closer
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: to being able to say I have like a big
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: policy question or something that's on the ground, you know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: happening now that I can speak to. And I think
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: that's that's part of what I found appealing about sort
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: of that direction. Also, I'm actually terrible at dissecting fruit flies.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: It just, yeah, it's a skill. You're looking at me funny,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: but it's a skill to dissective fruitflies, and I was
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: not good at it.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: I'm just thinking of how small fruitflies are. I mean,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: I'm an English major, so I never did anything like that.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: But like you have them one of the microscope and
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: you're like, do it. But it's I mean, it's it's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: a skill.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: I it sounds like a really amazing skill.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: It's not widely generalizable, I will say, uh, okay.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Next question is how long of maternity leave did you
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: take for each of your kids.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Academia is a very complicated place for maternity leave because
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: you are effectively self employed. So there's like many things
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I do at my many things you do an academic job.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: One of them is teach.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: So a simple answer to that question is like, when
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: is the first time you taught after you had your kids?
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And for that, my daughter, my first kid was born
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: in April, and I was back to teaching in September,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: so that was, you know, a reasonable distance for my son.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I had just moved jobs and so actually I was
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: teaching in the semester he was born, although only graduate students,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: so I had them at my house for class when
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: he was like ten days old. So that was the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: sort of So that's sort of one answer to that.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: But there's a different answer, which is, like when was
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: the first time you sort of thought about like re
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: engaging with research and or like went back to the office.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: And that was a pretty short time in you know,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: a few weeks with both kids, partly because just like
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: your work doesn't really stop and it is hard to
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: sort of totally disconnect from things when you are the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: person who is pushing everything forward.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: What is very nice about the life.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Of an academic is that it is relatively straightforward to
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: adjust your work hours on what we'd call the intensive margin,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: so I could come back and work a little bit.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: So there is like productive value in saying I'm going
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: to take two hours today to work. And that has
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: been very nice for me, and it's sort of been
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: nice the whole time my kids were little, because it's
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: enabled me to work a little bit more at sometimes
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: in a little bit less at other times, to try
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: to sort of adjust the amount of time I want
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: to spend with them, But I did not take very
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: much concentrated maternity leave like you would sort of typically
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: think of it.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Once you were back at work after maternity leave and
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: you started to do all this writing related to parenting
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: and pregnancy, did people not take you as seriously as
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: an academic because you deal with mom stuff.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: People thought it was extremely weird to be doing public
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: writing in this space. Yes, there are two pieces of that.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: So one is, particularly when I had my first child,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I did not have tenure, and the currency for academic
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: tenure is is academic.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Paper is published in journals.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And so doing something with your professional time which is
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: not that is a bit, like perceived, is a bit weird.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a sort of counter productive choice
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: in terms of your professional development.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: To some extent, I.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Think it also is the case that, yes, it's a
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: very male dominated field, so sort of turning your attention
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to these gender topics, especially outside of the realm of academia,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: was an unusual choice and one that not everybody maybe
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: saw the merit of or maybe understood is better.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I think not everybody understood why I had made the
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: choices to do that.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: By the not my second kid, it came along, I
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: was already pretty established in this space, so I think
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: by then people had either just decided I was like
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a crazy nutter and was just doing this, or they
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: had I had seen.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Some value in it, or they didn't think about it.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: What's a piece of advice you'd give to a junior
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: or pre tenure female academic.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I find this very difficult because in some sense, the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: advice I actually give people is, you know, focus on
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: getting tenure and focus on writing papers. And often people
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: will come to me like, I'm interested in writing a book.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in, you know, doing being in this different space.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I will generally tell them like, that's probably a mistake,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: which is a funny thing to say, because for me,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: like it's worked out great, this is sort of exactly
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: what I should be doing. I think it has been
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: opened up doors that would not have been open otherwise,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: but it came at at a professional cost in terms
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: of tenure, and I think that I don't want people
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: to pay that cost, especially since you know, the chance
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: that you kind of turn it into some some new
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: thing is probably relatively small. So I tend to tell people,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: you know, before tenure, kind of keep your face to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the publication Grindstone, and then I have a lot of
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: really specific pieces of advice, like when your paper gets rejected,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: send it out again immediately. Don't just like sit on
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: it and feel sad about it. You know, you can't
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: publish papers if you don't submit them to journals. There's
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: like some more specific advice like that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So future of vagina economists, which you know, you
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: describe yourself as sometimes someone interested in the kind of
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: work you do, is is there a path there that
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: you could see for people?
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of really interesting questions that
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: someone who is interested in sort of gender in the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: labor market and child rearing and motherhood and its impacts
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: on things that someone with those interests could answer in
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the space of economics using the tools of economics.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: So that I think is a very rich area.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And partly because economics has tended to be more male dominated,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: there may be more space in those areas for people
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and you know, for people to come to come into
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: And I do think you can publish papers on those
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: topics if they are grounded in the sort of traditional
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: like you're writing a paper with data and you know,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: theory and models and results and all the stuff that
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: we that we put in our in our papers, So
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of space for for
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: vagina economics.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, next question is do you have any sabbaticals
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: planned and what are you going to work on?
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: So, pending approval from my department chair, I am planning
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: to take a sabbatical next year, which will mean that
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I am not teaching for the year or doing you know,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: university service, which is a reasonable part of my job.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And I think I'm gonna spend a lot of time
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: on parent data and trying to figure out the next
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: steps and how we can grow and give more data
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: to parents, and so I'm really really excited about that possibility.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Awesome. So we're going to transition a little bit into
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: the last few questions, which, like I said at the beginning,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: are basically about how you manage work life balance essentially
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: and get things done that you want to get done.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: And some of these are kind of specific, but your
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: life lives in the specifics, so I mean I like
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: the specifics as questions exactly. So the first question is
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: can you share examples of how you organize your schedule?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So one is like I do a fair amount
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of writing.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And although I am fast and generally able to write
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: with some distractions, for some kinds of writing, it is
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: really important to have blocks in which you are focused
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: on things. And so I try at the beginning of
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the week to like look at what my calendar looks like,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: which is full of meetings and whatever, but then actually
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: schedule in like blocks that I will be working on
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: different things, on different writing projects, and so I have
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: some more concentrated time to do that. And that's something
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: versions of which I have tried to do in organizing
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: my schedule for many years. Is just sort of take
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: taking blocks of time which can be used in some
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: of the stuff that requires a little bit more brain power.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: I'm going to follow up with some specifics. Is this
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: on Google Calendar or something along those lines.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is on Google calendar.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I have like a nice school calendar where I put
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: all my little stuff in.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: And do you use that purely for work or are
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: there personal things on there too?
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: So there's personal things.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: My Google calendar is like a total disaster because it
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: has my I can see my schedule, my husband's schedule,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: my both my kids' schedules, and our babysitter schedule, like
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: all on there at the same time, and so it's
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I can read it, but it's a little you know,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: you have to get used to.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: It's like practice. Yeah.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Wow. So you mentioned babysitter. One question was what paid
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: supports do you have?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So the most important paid support is we have a
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: nanny who is some combination of nanny and house manager.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Who is really, really, really important.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's very important to say because
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes people will say, oh, how are you doing all
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: these things? In the answer is like, I have a
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: lot of help and she you know, does the grocery
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: shopping and like manages stuff around the house and you know,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: picks up the kids and is a really really important partner.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So so that's been really a gift, and I'm well
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: aware that it is also a privilege, but it is
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: more or less what makes it possible to do the stuff.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: That I do.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: How did you find her?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Care dot com is a totally random thing where we
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: are our old babysitter, Our old nanny had left in
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: the middle of the pandemic, and so we needed to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: hire somebody and like the.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Winter of twenty twenty one, and.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: She had like posted that she was looking for a
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: job on care dot com and she had been working
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: in a bakery. She's actually a trained pastry shop and
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: which is just a very like don't steal my babysitter.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Everyone wants her contact and.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Is amazing and yeah, and we just reached out and
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: it was like a sort of a particular episode where
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: my husband was like, I think the universe knew that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: we like needed a break because it's like the first
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: person we.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Talked to, and it's you know, it's just it's great.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: But care dot com usually is pretty good.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can go where you want with this, but
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: it's what is your best productivity and or work life
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: balance tip.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: So my best work life balance tip is that you
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: shouldn't really expect balance accept in a kind of like
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: broad aggregate sense. So I think people are often looking
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: for balance, like I want every day to be balanced,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and like I would like every day to.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Be balanced too, but like balance is hard.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And so even when I think about, you know, time
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: with my kids as my schedule gets busier, rather than
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: thinking about like, well today I had, you know, not
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: like I didn't have enough time with them, try to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: think about Okay, well there wasn't that much time today,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: but let me like put in some time later in
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the week, or let me like plan for a time
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: more time on the weekends. And so just thinking about
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: balance is a little bit more of a kind of balance.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: It's over some larger, you know, larger timescale rather than
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: like every moment or every day has to be balanced
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: in some in some way.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: All right, let's end with a little conversation about stress. Okay,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: have you ever felt burned out? And how in general
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: do you manage your stress so that it doesn't get
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: to that point.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I feel burned out a pretty large amount of the time.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I mean not all the time, but like with you know, cyclically,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like everyone else, the main way that I manage stress
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: is with running. That is like my primary source of
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: stress release, which is great in some ways because I
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: really like it and it does typically relieve a fair
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: amount of stress. It's not so great because, like as
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: my therapist has pointed out, it's not good to have
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: only one outlet.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: You should have a toolbox of outlets. But I don't
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: have a toolbox of outlets. I have just the one,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: the one outlet.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: So you know, I've been trying over time to like
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: develop other develop other tools. I have also been trying
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: hard in the last year, probably to not over commit,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and you know, I want to say yes to all
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: of the things. I want to be able to do everything.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And that is when I get into a situation in
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: which like I'm super burned out or I'm like, Okay,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I can only get my life done if I like
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: get up at four o'clock in the morning or three
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: forty five or whatever, and that's like, not, that's not
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: a good idea, and so thinking in advance about how
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: can I avoid that situation is is important.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: That's all the questions we have for today. Is there
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: anything else you want to add on about your career?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess sort of thinking about this, I
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: will say, I just like, I feel very lucky that
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I get to do the stuff that I do, and
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: it's like it feels like a tremendous privilege and a
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: place where if you had told me, you know, eleven
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: years ago my daughter was born, like this is what
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you would be doing now, I would have been like,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: you're crazy, job, and like that's a crazy that's a
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: crazy thing to say, but you know, yeah, it's just
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: it's great I'm very happy with it.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you for doing what you do and for
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: answering these questions. I think we have even more great
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: questions about other topics, like parenting, which we haven't gotten
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: to yet.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: So parenting it is parent the parent Data Podcast. All right,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: we'll have to do we have to do parenting.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: It feels like we should do parenting. Yeah, so we'll
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: talk again soon.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Awesome, Thanks Alex, Thanks thanks for listening.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, subscribe to parent Data
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: in your favorite podcast now and rate and review the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: show in Apple Podcasts. You can subscribe to the whole
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: newsletter for free at www dot parent data dot org.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Talk to you soon,