Latest / Cigars and Cinema Podcast / "Okay, The Star Wars Prequels! For Real!" Ep. 107 5/13/26

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"Okay, The Star Wars Prequels! For Real!" Ep. 107 5/13/26 · Cigars and Cinema Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's be journey into another episode of Smoke and Screen.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Today's episode of cigars system is coming to you from the OT cigars side by five at three of the custom cigars at an undeniable fight.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Join the community and smoke with us on the Oakland Tobacchinist YouTube channel as we delve into the written experience of OT Craft Cigars and many cigars and my police custom made just for our membership.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the description and a full post of these cigars, visit us at www.oplandist.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Hello everybody.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema Podcast.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: We are in week two of going through the trilogies, the many trilogies of Star Wars.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited for this one.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: If you're new to the podcast, this is the show where we smoke cigars, unabashedly commentating, in some cases, giving extreme opinions on film and entertainment.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: I am one of your hosts coming to you from the East Coast of North Carolina, Eric Drazen from OGT Cigars, and with me tonight from the West Coast in Beaumont, California, we have Curtis Bailey.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Curtis, glad to be on tonight, back at another Star Wars show.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and I feel like it's meaningful that you're just pointing out where each of us is located because I'm pretty sure that where you are there in uh North Carolina is lower elevation than Cherry Valley here in California.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's over, Eric.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I have the high ground.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Which still I don't understand why that line was given and what it's like.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're right, Obi-Wan.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: We're done.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: No, no, we'll we'll get into it, I'm sure.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: But I'm excited for tonight.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have a great show.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Guys, if you're watching, thank you so much.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: I will invite you at this time, if you have your own opinions about what we are enjoying tonight in terms of the cigar and also the prequel trilogy, what we're talking about tonight.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Please drop those comments down or questions, and I will do my best to pull those up.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: The show is always more engaging when you have the conversation moving around.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: So I highly encourage you to do so.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: And first of which, tonight, Daniel Frazier's on saying, No cigar tonight.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: It's about 180% humidity outside as it has been nonstop rain for the last 20 hours.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Yikes.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I I don't know if I know.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Daniel, where uh what state are you in?
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't actually I'd have to look that up.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much for joining us as always.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, I know we've got a lot to talk about tonight, uh, but let's let's talk a little bit about what we're smoking and where it comes from.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: So we're starting a new month, week series, whatever you want to call it, uh, for the new variety pack that was just shipped out.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So all five of these cigars went to our variety club members.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: This is a great way to try a bunch of different cigars to expand your palette at the best possible price.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: And killer lineup, I'm super excited for this five pack.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we still have variety open a little bit, few spots if you guys are uh interested.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: That fair play barber poles and exclusive through us El Mago Renegade, which alone is like a 1750 cigar.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: And then we have the El Mago uh Alakazam, which is one of their limiteds, really hard to get a hold of.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: We have a Cigar Clown, and then that one that is white and black in the middle, that is the new Black Works Studio Rorschach Sumatra that we are smoking tonight.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, Curtis, I know you've smoked a number of black label stuff, black work stuff.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Have you tried the Rorschach before?
4:06
SPEAKER_01: I have, but it's been a while.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: So originally when it was released, it was like in like short pentellas.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: They were like five by like 38 or 40 gauge.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they were released in a short Robusto, which was a four and a half by 52.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then after that happened, they blended this cigar we're smoking tonight, which is the Sumatra version, also in a shorter cigar.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: And then finally at PCA, they uh did a Toro size.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: So that's what we're smoking the brand new six by 50 Toro.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh the blend is an Ecuadorian Sumatra wrapper over Nicaraguan binder and filler.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: It's very classic Blackwork Studio.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I'm looking forward to it.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: This cigar, I feel like, has amazing flavor.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh Daniel's saying he's in South Georgia.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, that makes sense.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: That'll do it.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, even though we're on the East Coast where the Carolinas, uh, we haven't really gotten too bad humidity.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: I know it's coming, but humidity hasn't been bad yet.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: So all right, well, let's get this cut and let's get a cold draw happening.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Good open draw.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Sweetness.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Sweetness of like persimmons, maybe?
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Or pomegranate, maybe.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got that wrong.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: Pomegranate.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can think I could see that.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: There is kind of a fruitiness to it.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really interesting.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Good open draw.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: How's your draw?
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, seems good so far.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: All right, well, we're gonna get this toasted up, get it lit, and see where Rorschach Sumatra starts.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Every cigar.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Every cigar leaves an impression.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: So enjoy your cigar as you light it up.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: All right, really good start off the bat.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's just my palate this evening or if it's the cigar, but it's it's creating really vivid like uh pictures from my like sensory um uh factory.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm getting a little bit of like that that's that spicy pepperiness on the retro, but I'm getting like saltine cracker, um, a mix with like medium roast coffee coffee, but the kind of coffee that has like a citrus aspect to it, um that's a little acidic.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm having like all those things going on right now.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh what are you getting so far?
7:06
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if what you just mentioned there as like the medium roast coffee is the same thing that my brain is interpreting as like roast vegetables.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I could see that.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because that's kind of what I was picking up.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: By the way, uh, please, audience, forgive me if you can hear what's happening outside my house.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I've got all my windows closed because my gardener is here with his leaf blower and perfect timing.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I know.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: It's like I should have given him my schedule.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: What I really think though, um, and I honestly I can't really hear anything.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: There's like a faint hum, but that's about it.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: So you're good.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that this is a thinner gauge, although it's a it's a bit longer, uh, being a toro, thinner gauge than the short Robusto, and I think it lends itself pretty well because the concentration of flavor is really there, really good balanced.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: I do like that saltiness, um, the pepperiness, and then yeah, like that uptick of like zing of like citrus, but the type of citrus again that I perceive through like certain coffees that I've had, not so much like citrus biting into an orange, right?
8:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I I was also thinking um, you know, maybe a little bit of um piff.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, not a bad way.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: No, no, exactly.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you definitely don't want to bite out on an actual orange.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I will definitely say I had this conversation with uh Nick Fusco from Elmago.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, the original version of Rorschach is a Habano.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: This is a Sumatra.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: I really, especially over the last couple years, I have been impressed with a lot of Sumatra cigars out there.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: I think it's been leaps and bounds in terms of the type of blends that cigar makers are now using.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is a good start.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm into it.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: I gotta fire up my pairing for tonight.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: What do you what do you have?
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Ah, Bunahaven.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Bunahaven 12.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Now, this again is from the the island of Isle.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Isle or Isla?
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Isla.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Isla.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: But it is what the only or like one of two unpeated scotches?
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's uh there are a few um distilleries on Isla that make uh unpeted um whiskies, but you know, but the majority of it there is peted, that's what the place is known for.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: But Bunahaven is a big one, and then um Brooklotti is the other.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: Now Brooklati also makes a lot of peated stuff, but like the classic Lottie, their like mainline spirit is pretty similar to this.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's probably why I didn't my brain didn't go there because the like because isn't uh Brooklotty also do like Port Charlotte?
9:45
SPEAKER_00: That's theirs, yeah.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so those and that's got some peatiness to it if I recall.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and they also make uh Octimore, which is one of those that like has the highest PPM, you know, peat per what I can't remember the exact you know measuring that they use for that, but so they make some super smoky taste and stuff.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to go too much on a bunny trail, but this is probably not gonna win me any favors.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: But out of the stuff from Isla, uh I honestly think Lagavulin is not at the top of my list.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot others that I prefer.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, I for me, Laga Vulan has a little bit fallen into the McAllen category in that whiskey they the whiskey they make is very good, but because they're so big and popular, they can charge a lot of money for it.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: I agree, I agree 100%.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: I would choose uh a LaFroygue or an Ardbeg, like or even a um oh, what's the other name of it?
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, those two for sure.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: I would choose more often than not over Logavulin.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Now, that being said, when I went there, I had a great time at the Logavulin distillery.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Super cool experience.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so tonight we are following up.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: We uh are doing it for real this time.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: We're actually gonna be talking about the prequel trilogy Star Wars.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is the trilogy that I definitely grew up.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I grew up on the original as well, but in terms of a trilogy coming out that was being featured with release dates at a theater, this is the trilogy that I grew up like going to the theater watching.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I guess we're gonna find that out by the end in this evening.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: I have to say, when episode one came out, I was turning 10 years old.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: So I there was a lot of anticipation.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: I I was not turning 10 years old.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: What was your anticipation?
11:35
SPEAKER_00: And I would also want to ask this to our audience as well.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: What before you saw this movie in theater, like, do you remember like thoughts in your head or like oh I I remember being I remember being very hyped for it.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, you know, not only had I kind of gotten re-invigorated on Star Wars because they did the special edition releases a couple years prior, uh, I started going onto their website where they were releasing a bunch of uh behind the scenes videos about the making of you know various things.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: And uh I even went one night a little bit drunk with some friends to see the Wing Commander movie because it was allegedly playing the trailer for episode one.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: This was before you could easily just like pull it up on YouTube, it didn't exist yet, you know, like this totally different world in 1999.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: So um uh yeah, I I was I was pretty hyped for this.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: So my uh I grew up in a very strict household, even though I was we were all kind of a Star Wars family.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: My mom was apprehensive of us going, like me and my younger brother, uh, because of Darth Maul.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Like we had seen pictures of Darth Maul, and they're like, Man, this looks demonic.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, we're gonna have to go watch this first.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember like seeing that.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: I remember seeing just like, yeah, like Obi-Wan without a beard, and he's younger, and stuff like this.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Remember seeing a picture of Qui-Gon Jin being like, Is this Obi-Wan?
13:00
SPEAKER_00: No, wait, no, who is this guy?
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Right, um, a lot of stuff like that.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: And at the time, too, I wasn't familiar with uh Iwan McGregor, I wasn't familiar with uh uh anybody in this, and at the time too, Natalie Portman was like I mean, she was in Leon the Professional, but she wasn't that big of an actor.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: That was still relatively early in her career.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: I want to say she was in the neighborhood of 15 years old when they made this.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so crazy, crazy.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, then the I was actually away on like a family, uh like a butt Brothers vacation.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: We were hanging out with our grandma.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: My mom and my sisters went to go see it.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: So as soon as we were coming back from this trip, we were like gonna grill them.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, what exactly happened?
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and my mom's response and my sisters were like, it was good, it but it was okay.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: So, what was your reaction after seeing this movie for the first time in the theater?
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, there were a lot of uh uh you know OG Star Wars fans, people from my generation or slightly older that um were really mad about this movie after seeing it.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: I was not one of those guys.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: I definitely had the feeling that I was like, this is different than you know what I had been expecting.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: And you know, um, there are some things that I uh that I don't like, and you know, eventually after re-watching it for years, I I came to kind of even different perspective on the movie.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: But I was kind of a fan uh when it when it initially hit in theaters, I saw it several times.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, no, I I ended up so after they had seen it, they said, Okay, yeah, you can go watch it.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: So I saw it in theater, I think, twice.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember being like, Okay, the coolest thing ever is the fact that Qui-Gon Jin is melting a door with his lightsaber.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is so legit, and then it kind of like trickled off.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, this is weird.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: It lost me a little bit in Coruscant because I'm 10-year-old and being like, Okay, just a bunch of talking, and then it won me back, of course, with the one of the greatest lightsaber fights in Star Wars history.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I do like that one too.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I I also remember the day, like a month or two later, uh, when my mom went to in Redlands.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you remember this.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: There was a place in Redlands called like like uh like video warehouse or like DVD warehouse.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: It was near the Trader Joe's in like in Redlands, and uh she purchased the VHS and we watched it like every day, I think, for like a full week straight.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, uh you know, it's funny.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: This this was the movie that a lot of people like really hated.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're talking uh specifically about episode one.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh this was pre-episode two, so yeah, yeah.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, looking back on that whole trilogy now, um, I think this one might be my favorite of the really okay, okay.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of really strong stuff in Revenge of the Sith, also.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, there's things that I like about every single chapter in this uh uh uh grouping.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, I don't outright hate any of these movies, but I definitely see problems.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and yeah, I don't want to dwell too much on one movie because we're gonna lose time real quick.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say if I were to look at this trilogy, I would say Revenge of the Sith is my favorite, then Phantom Menace, and then Attack of the Clones.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're right.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: There's some good moments in Attack of the Clones, but then the low, low moments are really low.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Extremely, yeah.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: In particular, the um sort of whatever it is that they attempted to do, and this is you know, probably a product of George Lucas's writing and his.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about this last week, I think, that he's seemingly not the guy who's the best at like working on set with performers to get you know good uh uh um performances out of them.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: So that scene where uh Anakin basically admits how much he's in love with her and you know how they shouldn't do this, and she's wearing like the you know like corset thing with the choker, so it looks like his hand is on her neck, and like you know, like that's so loaded with like it's it's like that.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Do you like me or do you really like me?
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Kind of uh soap opera type.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not good, it's just not good.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's also I would say if there is a through line of something this entire trilogy uh suffers from, it's poor dialogue.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's always, but it it's hard.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of like we gotta go get those bad guys.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, where are we going?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: We're going there, let's go get them.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: It's it's so unimaginative, it's not very flavorful at all.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Um probably the biggest discrepancy, and I was actually talking to Mallory and Andrew about this.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I will always have an issue with with Attack of the Clones is this is the first time we see Hayden Christensen as uh Anakin.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: I did not like him when I first watched it, right?
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And you're trying to base this really like amazing origin story on one of the most iconic villains of all time.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: And the moment that we finally get to see like a glimpse of Darth Vader coming out when he's starting to get very rageful and he wants to kill all of these sand people, we cut away.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Instead, we get a speech, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, come on, that you that moment is so wasted, and I think it really bogs down that point.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, you know, maybe he felt like that was too aggressive to to show him doing that.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, this is also the story about like one of cinema's greatest villains, and and we see him do stuff like that a little bit more uh aggressively in the third film, but um yeah, that's probably the film, you know, pulling its punches a little bit.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: I will say one thing I really do like from that that sequence is um and it hit me like a ton of bricks when I saw it in the theater for the first time.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Right after his mother dies while she's still in his arms, he switches from sad to angry and looks up, you know, does almost that like you know uh uh uh Stanley Kubrick, you know, looking up from underneath your own eyebrows kind of thing.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the the new uh theme John Williams plays on the score there is good to define his anger is so good.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: It is.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: I I actually was it's funny because I when you were saying that I was like, Yeah, if he doesn't mention the music, the music is pretty good, but again, it's that built of anticipation.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: And I remember watching me like, oh my gosh, like the floor is gonna drop out, and it's like, no, we get one guy killed and then we cut out, and it's like, oh my gosh, like it it felt like I was cheated.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: What do you think about the Django Fett tie-in?
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have mixed feelings about that.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, uh on the one hand, uh you know, uh having him in there, you know, sort of complicates the story unnecessarily by having all this backstory about how he's the source of the clones, and that's an excuse to fit it that you know, that's all a little bit wanted, right?
20:15
SPEAKER_01: But if you really think back on the original trilogy, Boba Fett is on screen for five minutes, doesn't really do a whole lot, and when we see him get into action, he kind of you know goes out like a punk where Han hits the his jet pack and he goes flying into the Sarla kit.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: So I like that this movie was like we're gonna fulfill the promise of Boba Fett with all these cool gadgets that he's got and actually show you him using his stuff in a fight against a Jedi, which is a formidable opponent.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: And I actually quite like that fight between them.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: I think that for the most part it's pretty good.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and right before I I uh get on that as well, Jason just jumped in and said, Sorry so late.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for jumping on, Jason.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Jason, you made it to a Star Wars episode.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: You had to.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I like the visuals of it.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: That fight, um, I think it and even the the the chase with slave one and like the asteroids and stuff, very cool, yeah, very visually stunning.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: The aspect I have trouble with is that this massive galaxy of an infinite amount of like planets and such in these movies are super, super small.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: It's like by the way, so and so's cousin, and so it's like there's for me an even more egregious example of that in this movie, and it's the decision that George Lucas made to have uh Anakin be the person who uh built C3PO.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: Now, this is gonna be a little bit nerdy, but uh they make it quite clear.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: We just watched, or at least we just covered the Star Wars original trilogy, and 3PO makes it very clear several times.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: In those movies, that he is a protocol droid.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: He's programmed for etiquette and protocol.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: He knows languages.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: He's an interpreter.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: He's a guy that uh assists uh you know ambassadors and stuff like that.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: What on earth does Anakin's mom as a slave need a protocol droid for?
22:19
SPEAKER_01: And can Anakin program one when he's 10 years old?
22:23
SPEAKER_01: It's so forced.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's clear George Lucas is like, man, I can't be fun.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: He's he's Luke's dad and he's also 3PO's dad.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't resist.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like you should have resisted.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, if you have enough Metacloran count in your blood, you can do anything, apparently.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: But no, I uh I agree with that in terms of like the use, maybe he was experimenting or whatever.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: I do think though, it's the only thing that I appreciate is the fact that when Owen tries to uh purchase C3PO in a new hope, how he says, Oh, one of my first employee jobs was that was working on, but that doesn't line up with the memory erase that happens at the end of Revenge.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: No, it's all it's it's there's a continuity mess that's created by George Lucas's kind of like uh uh uh and you know I I to a certain degree I kind of get it because you know, even though he wrote this these things, I'm willing to bet that he's not as obsessive about the smaller corners of the continuity as fans are.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: I would agree.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, whatever, like you know, it it happened over 25 years ago.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm not mad about it or anything, but it's just like such a weird choice.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: It was a weird choice for sure.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you think overall, like now that this these movies have like a date time on them about the the actors in these roles?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Iwan McGregor, uh, Hayden Christensen.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Iwan McGregor is largely good throughout this trilogy, and you know, across the three of them, he's probably the best performance in all of them.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: I do like um Ian McDermott Dermot chewing the scenery in Revenge of the Sith, because that's been an over-the-top villain since the beginning, anyway.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I I just re-watched Return of the Jedi a couple days ago, and he leans into it so hard in that.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: So like fine, like but um maybe my favorite single performance/slash character in the whole thing is Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon Jin.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: I really like him in that part.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, I like how uh calm and serene he is, the demeanor he has when he approaches training Anakin, the things that he has to say about being attuned to the force, he says uh something to the effect of you know, your focus determines your reality, and you know, just like these ideas that are kind of useful as to start thinking about for a young boy entering that world.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh yeah, I don't know.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: I I'm I'm way, way, way uh a fan of Liam Neeson as that character.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: He's one of those actors that it didn't seem like oh, they pulled this guy into play an actor, a character.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: It's oh, this is Liam Neeson, and he's got his own like acting ability to it.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Plus, I I I like things like oh, sorry, oh hello there.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Hello there, and the the best lines in uh in Revenge of the Sith.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, go ahead.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I like that uh when they uh get on uh Tatooine, uh Liam Neeson is wearing that kind of poncho, which is a little bit of a man with no name kind of you know illusion.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: So like all that stuff is fun and cool.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: I like that character.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: Plus, one of my favorite, like this is another super nerdy moment.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry I know I'm talking a lot, I can't help it.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: There's uh a scene on Naboo when they're fighting a bunch of the droids that are kind of outside in the courtyard.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Qui-Gon Jin swipes a saber down through one of him, and then he puts it into his robe, he puts it back into the belt as the blade is still retracting.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: I was like, that's so awesome.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: It is really cool.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: And I I also remember fan like fiction like going around, and they're like, actually, Qui-Gon Jin, I don't know if you ever heard this, was not a true Jedi master, and that's why one, he wasn't on the council because he was considered too like tumultuous to be a legit uh master, and two, that's why they had to burn him and he didn't disappear like true Jedi masters do.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I was like, interesting.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: So they're like, it took someone who wasn't like fully keeping to the code of Jedi and Jedi Master to bring Anakin into the prophecy.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: I always thought that was interesting.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, well, there's enough evidence to support some of it, I suppose.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: You just said a very critical word there that I feel like we need to talk about the P word uh prophecy, the prophecy, yes.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: That's a big problem in this trilogy for me.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: They're like, what did Dune do?
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Ah, there's a prophecy in Dune.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Because it feels like such like kind of a lazy back door to establish um you know, sort of mythological legitimacy to all this stuff that's happening with the characters, but the way they reference it is super clunky, and there's even that scene where they talk about it where it's like you know this, like maybe we misinterpreted it and I'm like, right?
27:10
SPEAKER_01: What what then why is it even here?
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Like it feels very sloppy to me, but yes, yes, very, very lackadaisical for sure.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so here we got a slew of comments I want to pull up here.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Dapper prof saying prequels and even Rogue One, which I liked, demonstrate the reality, which is sometimes the imagination of what happened is better than seeing it explicitly.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Sure, for sure.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't really want to touch the Rogue One thing because I do not like that movie, but but uh I definitely it it is hard when you have so much expectation like built up.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: What was it like?
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Well and what was Anakin like?
27:47
SPEAKER_00: It is it's gonna be hard to hit like it on the nose.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: I do remember hearing years and years ago when I was a kid, and I don't know how it got into the ether, like if you know uh it was something that George Lucas said in an interview, if there was part of a novel thing that he wrote or whatever, but I just remember learning through cultural osmosis when I was a kid.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Everybody knew this the backstory that uh Darth Vader is messed up the way he is because Obi-Wan uh hurt him in a fight on a volcano, and that was just part of the lore in my head for years.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and then seeing it, there's some cool stuff about that big sequence, but then you also have I have the high ground and you know other you know daffy things that happen in that that that fight.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: So I've mixed feelings on how that was realized versus my imagination of the moments, you know, for a decade prior.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, so here let's let's pull up the last few several comments and then let's let's take a quick break and look at Rorschach, and then I want to get into that that duel.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's see very quickly.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh Jason's saying, My eyes are so dilated from a doctor appointment earlier, I've got carbonate.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, sorry to hear that.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh your eyesight will return in time.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: So instead of a big dark blur, you'll see a big bright blur.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I even liked solo, but the imagination of the events in that movie that were hinted in the OG was better than seeing it.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Solo was another one I didn't care about.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: I've got big thoughts on solo.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And then Nick is saying, first job 3PO says is programming binary in uh labor uh labor labor filters, which are similar to vaporators.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Owen asks if he knows bocce.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm that nerd.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually, uh um it's uh binary load lifters.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: There we go.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever watch any of the robot chicken Star Wars?
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it's been a long time, but yeah, I've seen them.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: I always thought hilarious there was that like short uh sketch bit of Luke going uh to Tashi's station to see the power burners, and it's like a group of women.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: Um okay, very quickly, let's let's take a look at this Rorschach.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh burn is great, smoke is great.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what are you what are you thinking so far?
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm getting uh a new kind of section of the flavor uh profile, and it might be the influence of what I'm drinking, but I swear I'm getting something that's like a cinnamon roll now.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: I can see the cinnamon for sure.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Um a little bit of like doughy sweetness.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Sure, I could totally see that.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's just power of suggestion.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: There's a hint of like too, like black tea, maybe to it that I'm getting on the back end.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Um but really good.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the sweetness I get, maybe not doughy, but it's like one of those like wafers, like like vanilla wafers that maybe kind of got that sweetness to it.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um I'm curious though, smoking this cigar, what would you if you were to take a stab, a guess about what how much this cigar might cost, what would you say?
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: I would put it around 15.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: $8.50.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Dang.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh very impressive.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean Black Label's known for having some really crazy good flavor, good elevated blends.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is definitely in terms of premium Toro their most affordable cigar, and it puts out.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no kidding.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Very impressed with it.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so coming back to uh Anakin versus Obi-Wan.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: I I I have such a love, hate, mostly love relationship with that entire scene.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: The music, potentially my favorite score, like in the entire trilogy.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: It is really good.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: It's not my favorite, but I understand why like I can I could I can condone that choice.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it slowly for me went a bit higher than Duel of Fates, just a little bit, right?
31:48
SPEAKER_00: But I will also say um the epicness of it, like in terms of how it's choreographed, uh, everything.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: I I love how it's executed in films.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: What what do you think?
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I like it for the most part.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: I think that it probably is a little bit too long, and there's a little bit of like unnecessary uh kind of faffing around in that that like there's a sequence where they're still inside that kind of like you know, boardroom control room place, and they're standing near the tables, and they just for about a second and a half swirl their sabers in front of each other, not attempting any strikes.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what's that all about?
32:25
SPEAKER_00: It okay, so that that's what I'm saying.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: Love hate, like it's it's a little embarrassing at the same time.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, hey, I've made it this far in power wars, I'm on board for it.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Like there's an element that's cool.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that I do like about it, it's not specifically related to the fighting, but what's going on with the kind of story conflict between them, and even though some of the dialogue is not great, I like just the story points of uh Anakin trying to explain his point of view, and you you really get the sense that um his perspective is now completely warped, yeah, his perception of reality is fundamentally broken.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's really that ideological divide between the two characters that for me works stronger than the the the kind of physical contest, but um okay uh and you know, and I and I like the way that it ends.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: You McGregor really sells that when he says I loved you, Anakin.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kind of you know, that whole bit is a little bit heartbreaking.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Um it is so there's there's stuff to like about it.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's what I'm saying, like there's back and forth because I feel like the dialogue after Anakin gets defeated is good, but lines like this is the end of you, my master, stuff like that.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, uh it could have been something else, we could have gone somewhere else.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do really appreciate how they use the full scope of uh Mustafar, how they're in the first on the landing platform, then inside, then outside, then like floating on the lava.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, I like how they cover the actual ground before they even get to high ground during that point.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: And the and the aspect I think too of color palette is beautiful in those.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for the most part, it's it's nice to put together.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, the idea of Vader um, you know, not only getting injured in an environment like that, but then also taking up residence in it, which is something that we see in Rogue One.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Remember, he's got that kind of castle that's on the lava river kind of thing.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, that goes back to Ralph McCorry concept paintings all the way from the 70s.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, they've had that idea for a long time.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, just being the nerd about it on that level is cool to see that stuff realized, you know.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, how much of a nerd are you, Curtis?
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Did you go to the theater with a lightsaber strapped to your side?
34:52
SPEAKER_01: For uh Revenge of the Sith.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh a buddy of mine, we we both went in costume to watch that movie for the first time.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Nice, yeah.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Did you see it on opening day?
35:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure that I did.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: I seem to recall.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm but I it it would, you know, I didn't keep you know, like ticket stubs or anything like that.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure, sure.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: But the likelihood that I didn't see any of these on opening day is very low.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, by the time Attack of the Clones came around, I saw that opening day, and then Revenge of the Sith.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: I I mean I did the whole I I missed that excitement of like waiting in line five hours on an opening day movie, it's gone.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: It's true, it is.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, as an adult within a busy adult life, I you know, I'm definitely glad I can do it the way I do it now.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, when I was young and had the time and didn't care, and you could have conversations with people in line, yeah, that was fun.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: It was a good time.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: So um the aspect of okay, we have the lightsaber duel in episode one, two, and three.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a favorite out of those three?
35:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, my personal favorite is probably still um, you know, there's the kind of like broader um uh uh Obi-Wan, uh Qui-Gon and Maul uh fight, but then it gets narrowed down after uh um Qui-Gon gets killed.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: There's that just that one brief, but I think pretty tightly uh choreographed and edited together showdown between Obi-Wan and Maul that is pretty solid.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: It is.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I read, I don't know how true it is, but I read that they uh during the editing filming of that, they had to slow it down because it was moving too quickly that your eye couldn't track what was happening.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: That's what I understand as well.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is really cool.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think too, that is one element that this prequel trilogy really has going for it.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: I love the behind-the-scenes aspects of where it's like the choreography was such a big thing that like Christensen and and McGregor were like they knew it in their sleep, they would just restart it over and over, and like how it even stuck with them through all other movies.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: I think that aspect and just the art of filmmaking, I really get excited for.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like it too.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: And especially because you know, the they're supposed to be selling the idea that you know, these aren't just skilled sword fighters, they're also people who as is explained in the movie, they can slightly see the future, which is why they appear to have such quick reflexes.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that should look a little like you know, hyper real, right?
37:23
SPEAKER_01: When you see people at that level fighting, and I think that's kind of what the movie delivers, even across all three of them.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: I agree, I agree.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: So a few comments here.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh 005 is saying, hi guys, enjoying an El Mago Miami Maduro and some Glenn Moraing.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh nice, I like Glen Maringy.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but and speaking of which, how's the pairing working with the Rorschach?
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's nice.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, uh, it's probably a little bit of a foregone conclusion because I love this whiskey so much.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, for me, it kind of goes with anything.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, you know, it has a little bit of um a little bit of brininess and a little bit of um cherry-like character to it.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Um and that's playing nicely with the you know, kind of other stuff we were talking about in this cigar, which so far, you know, it kind of seems to be, you know, I don't want to say all over the place, but you know, there's a good variety of flavors that we've discussed picking up on this from you know, roast vegetables to cinnamon buttons, just like how does that even make sense?
38:23
SPEAKER_01: But like it it all tastes good and it works, so I'm not gonna complain.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah, no, for sure.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh let's see, Dapper Prop saying on the topic of ridiculously, ridiculously unwildly lightsabers.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: I get that the super long cavalier cigar in the mail, what am I supposed to do with that thing?
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh he's talking about the uh Project Broadleaf A.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: That is a nine by 52, I believe.
38:49
SPEAKER_02: That's that's a big one.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: It it is, uh, it's a really good cigar.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, if you got like two and a half hours to just relax, it's it's for that size, very, very good.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you'll enjoy it.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, Jason says that he skipped school on opening day of Return of the Jedi to go watch it.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: And Nick is saying, Duel of Fates, Mall, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan fight is best, revenge close second.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, I just think too, though, as a whole, like episode one has some really good music in it.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Episode two, I mean, across the stars, I think is what it's called.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: It's it's okay.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: I I like that quite a bit, actually.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I I hear you.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: I it I think really what's ruined it for me is that it's the backdrop to some of the worst scenes in the movie.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: It's fair.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, I've been dying a little bit every day since you've come back into my life scene, and yeah, yeah.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: It's rough.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: There's some really rough dialogue in those passages.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: But I would also say, music-wise, across the board for a full movie, I like the score and revenge across the board better.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to go back and talk to what we were just kind of alluding to there, which is getting back to the um relationship between Anakin and Padme, because it's very crucial to this trilogy, right?
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you know, because the the future of these characters had already been written, it's necessary that they get together in this, right?
40:18
SPEAKER_01: You can't avoid it.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: But the way that their personalities are portrayed, um I understand why he likes her.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't think the movie does a good job of helping us understand why she uh um reciprocates.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't get why she likes this dude.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: I honestly feel like Padmy's character as a whole are three different characters in three different movies.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: You might be right.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Because in the first one, she's very much like, I'm the queen, I'm deadpan, I have no emotions, but I have to be this like representative for the people.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: And in the meantime, I'm also like trying to help, I care a little bit for this boy on Tatooine.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Second one, she's like playing hard to get.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm in charge, I can't, I'm Padme, who's the adventurer, and then the third one, she's like madly in love with Anakin.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: You're right, there's no transition to it, and she just seems different in uh every movie.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, and the thing that really strikes me about it is that it feels a little bit like there's an uh an unfortunate very common trope in um you know kind of romantic, I don't want to say romantic comedies, but like in some of the John Hughes movies and others, uh from the in the 80s and 90s, where it's from the perspective of a male uh protagonist who likes a girl who doesn't like him back.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: And she comes around to liking him just by him demonstrating how much he likes her, not exhibiting any personality traits that are uh uh attractive or admirable or uh you know um uh alluring.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's no sense that the female is coming to like this other person for the quality of who he is, they come to like him because of how much he likes her.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't work very well dramatically, and it kind of makes the the female characters kind of seem dumb.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: So uh that's uh unfortunate that that's sort of the road that this one takes.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: I no, I would agree with that.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: I would agree with that.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: There's not enough moments to see why she does kind of fall through that, and even like at the end of Attack of the Clones before they get married, she like gets shot out of the transport, and she's still like my head's in the game.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, we have to gather, get the rest of the people.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: Not like where's Anakin, where's any of this?
42:35
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end, she runs in just as Anakin, and they hug and then they get married.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: You're just like, Whoa, whoa, what happened here?
42:41
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it goes it's kind of crazy.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing going on around uh episode one when it came out, and um uh Andrew wrote this a customer of mine had all the Coke cans from episode one in his office.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: I remember those were so cool at the time.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember those?
42:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh I do, they were Pepsi actually.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, Pepsi, yeah.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: And I I had a bunch of them myself, yeah.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I kept them like you know in a box for years before being like, you know what, I should probably get rid of these.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: But it was it was definitely cool.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh, what's the next uh character?
43:13
SPEAKER_00: Um out of all the new technology from battle droids to starships and such, what did you think worked in this trilogy?
43:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a lot that I think is cool.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, generally the design department and uh you know production design type stuff, sound, you know, like all that remains, you know, really strong through most of these.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Um the thing I appreciate about it the most is that I think that if you had given the task of making a Star Wars prequel trilogy to another filmmaker, design wise, they would have stayed very close to what the original trilogy did.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's you know a little bit ballsy on Lucas' part to take this thing that people are so particular about and be like, I'm gonna take it in a whole new direction.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: So he told his designers to look at like Arc Deco and you know all this stuff that's just so different from the like you know uh uh industrial, like you know, stamped materials, rusting, falling apart stuff.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, here you've got gleaming, you know, aerodynamic chrome spaceships, but they found a way to make it work and still feel like it belongs in this universe.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh so even though there's maybe some of these designs are not my absolute favorite, like the Nabu fighters, the ones that are painted yellow on the front, it's okay.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: But like I just I just appreciated that they went there with it.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: I can't help but feel though, uh, there's an aspect of Phantom Menace that is a little too close to Return of the Jedi towards the end.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have the gun guns instead of Ewoks, you have uh, I mean, Anakin and whoever the pilots are instead of Lando, like it follows the exact same pattern.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: It's not enough for me to be like, oh wow, nothing new, but I can't help but have that in the back of my mind when I watch it.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's there for sure.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, bringing up those Naboo fighters is kind of what brought that.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, I will say I did like the design of the uh the destroyer droids that roll.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: I was about to say the same thing, those are pretty sweet, yeah.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: Pretty legit.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: It's a cool idea.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's see here.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh okay, so 005 is saying that uh Anakin, he exhibited a lot of loyalty expressed destructively, but maybe she saw that.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: Um possibly transition was but again, that's that's getting into um suppositions, you know, a layer of interpretation that you have to put onto the movie rather than it being something that the text of the movie is explicitly communicating to you.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: And Nick says he still has several of the Pepsi Cans.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: So boy, crack one open, pair it with a cigar.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so what's something you want to cover over overall in terms of the story, the world, whichever?
45:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, um, one thing that I do think is laudable about this trilogy, and we'll talk about this more uh next week's show when we talk about the sequel trilogy.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, say what you will about a lot of the very clear, glaring faults that this trilogy has in terms of the some of the acting per uh performances, quality of the dialogue, even some of the the narrative choices like Midi Chlorion's that's a whole thing.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: Nevertheless, this is a pretty clean arc across the three of the films about a young boy who has uh uh uh uh turns into a man who has a real problem of learning how to let go of things and how that fear drives him to turn into kind of a fascist monster.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty solid narrative arc across the whole thing.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, I would agree, and I will say, as much as I was disappointed in Attack of the Clones, I did really, I mean, he's not amazing, but I thought he did a decent job as Anakin in Revenge of the Sith.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: I think that he he has enough to where I'm like, okay, this is not distracting so much.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: There's some clunky moments, of course, but I think he does a pretty good job.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: I think I agree.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: And uh Andrew and I were actually talking about this.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: I do think too, Revenge has one of the best openings in Star Wars in terms of the clone battle in space and all, I mean, yeah, and going on and all that, and they and then they have to rescue Palpantine, that whole thing.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: I I'm on board for.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I generally appreciate that sequence too.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that reminds me.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh, in that sequence is uh what another one of our kind of secondary villa villains, Count Dooku.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: What do you think of him?
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Lame.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: I I think I uh the unfortunate thing is that uh Christopher Lee is just rather elderly, and it you can kind of tell when he's when he's on there, and especially if you're coming off of Darth Maul, it's kind of a low point.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
47:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um it does feel a little bit like some of those secondary villains like him, and then also General Grievous in the third film were.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not that you can't have you know secondary villain characters in these stories to kind of perform certain you know kind of plot functions or whatever, but there does get to be a point where they start to feel maybe a little bit perfunctory, you know, like yeah, kind of put in there for you know the sake of putting them in there rather than because they really solidly justify specific like narrative or thematic kind of ideas, maybe grievous more so than the others, but um yeah, a little clunkiness around them, but well, and the unfortunate thing too that this sequel or these this trilogy has is they have a lot of villains that just get thrown away.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, sure, you can argue like, well, they had to kill Darth Maul that like ended that way, but I was so disappointed when he was gone.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know a lot of uh people have that feeling.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember feeling that way when they killed him off because for me, I mean, yes, Darth Maul was cool, right?
49:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, looks cool, super physically imposing.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: He's a real threat to our hero characters, but that's kind of what he is.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: He's a uh he's a physical obstacle, he's not really a character in any meaningful sense in episode one, right?
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Sure, so I didn't mind that that he got killed at the end of that.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Of course, they resurrect him later in the TV show and whatever, like you know, fine, right?
49:33
SPEAKER_01: But um, uh, you know, I as far as the nuts and bolts of the the plot goes, um, I think it makes sense that he had to be killed at the end because he represents that ultimate physical threat.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: And what other solution do you have?
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: No, no, a hundred percent.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh, really quick, we got Daniel Lance from Domain Cigars and hello from Nicaragua.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for jumping on.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, let's see here.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Jason said, I feel like you should have kept Darth Maul for the last and final fight in episode three, and maybe or someone in episode two.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: The my biggest problem though is like he was such a cool character, he died, he's gone.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: And what do you get now?
50:13
SPEAKER_00: Count Dooku.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and what what's different about him?
50:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, he's supposed to be wiser because he can shoot electricity and he's also got a curved lightsaber, right?
50:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't really know if we need that.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, regarding what Nick just said there about using Maul in the final fight in episode three, I don't know that that's an idea that makes a whole lot of sense to me because uh you know, Maul is an outside threat from you know a different part of the narrative.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: When you're honing in on the climax of this story about how Anakin becomes Darth Vader, that fight kind of needs to be just him in Obi Wan.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: I would agree, I would agree.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: I think though you could have maybe had him finally get his come up in the beginning of episode three, perhaps a major climactic either way.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh Andrew's saying, Cool to see the clone trooper style looking more like the stormtroopers in the original.
51:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I thought that was cool.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I uh let's see here, and another comment here.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: Daniel saying it was not a fan of Count Dooku.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm right there with you, Daniel.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: I just and especially too, like there's this made-up lore that's like, oh, by the way, by the time they get to Attack of the Clones, like Count Dooku was this guy, and you're like, wait, what?
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Like he was like you're just supposed to accept it and move on, and it just it didn't work for me.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the whole kind of um narrative justification around uh the emperor having you know these other apprentices, you know, he's Darth Tyrannus secretly, and but he he just kind of gets plopped in there to serve a um an expository function and kind of not much else, and you know, maybe you know, I mean obviously this is telling a huge giant story, so you can't give time to all the characters to kind of develop who they are and stuff, but that one feels very kind of just like you know, yes, he's a he's a robot designed to do plot stuff, yeah.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I mean, overall, I think that as the years have passed, and I don't know if it's nostalgia, I don't know if it's just getting used to a thing, but I don't hate the prequel trilogy as much as I maybe once did.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I I think that in the in the long view, there's you know good qualities to these films that you know in some times get you know overshadowed by a lot of the uh clunkiness in the execution and some of the maybe you know questionable narrative choices.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: I hinted at Midday Chlorians a minute ago, that's another one where it's just like you know, that kind of blows up the um egalitarian message of a new hope where anybody, even this podunk farm boy from the ass end of the galaxy, can you know partake in this bigger world and you know turning it into this thing where it's like related to you know related to who you're related to, you know, a you know, a blood dynasty kind of thing.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: That that kind of robs that idea a little bit.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: So well, and yeah, and they kind of like started that theory and that concept in this series, and then I feel like they really ran with it in the sequel trilogy.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we'll get to that too.
53:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, there's there's one thing I just thought of one more complaint because why not?
53:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things we like to talk about here on Cigars and Cinema is the um effectiveness of show, don't tell type filmmaking, right?
53:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you can accomplish something cinematically with just the um the the actions and reactions and setup and all that kind of stuff, you don't have to explain what you're doing with dialogue.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: And there's a really unfortunate moment in that uh fight between Yoda and Dooku, where they're slinging force powers at each other and you know, kind of come to a standstill with that.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: And Dooku has to say, it's clear that this contest can't be settled with our knowledge of the force, and we have to, you know, settle it with lightsabers, you know, whatever the exact and it's just like skills, don't need to make him say that.
54:28
SPEAKER_00: No, you don't, although I will say I remember the high anticipation of Yoda first pulling the lightsaber.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what do you think about that whole scene?
54:38
SPEAKER_00: I I mean the scene is I think it's fan, it's just for the fans, honestly.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: But I I don't know if you remember back in the day there was a magazine called Star Wars Insider.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: I do, and of course, we we got it every issue, and I remember like seeing a picture, like someone had maybe made up or something of him holding a lightsaber, and I was like, Wait, that's a thing, like Yoda used to have a lightsaber, and then there was the whole lore.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: So when that happened, uh it was like finally happening, I was like, that was really cool when I first saw it.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: After that, I'm like, all right, it's it's whatever, hopping around like a crazy frog.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, right, I don't know.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
55:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I I have I have mixed feelings about it because yes, it was kind of fun, just like on a meta level, to be like, oh, look, look at Yoda, look at what he's doing.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, and you know, there's no reason that he can't necessarily do that, and then I think they even show in the movie that after that fight is over, you can tell that he's whooped, like you know, he's moves a lot slower immediately afterwards.
55:38
SPEAKER_01: Um it just it feels a little bit in conflict with what Yoda talked about in uh Empire Strikes Back, where he says uh Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never attack.
55:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's not to say that he can't get in a lightsaber fight with somebody, but there's something that's just like a little bit gleefully aggressive about that that feels like it's not quite tonally in balance with the Yoda that I knew from the the previous films.
56:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, at that point, he hadn't gone full Mr.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: Miyagi yet, so I guess not.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh Daniel's saying chills when Yoda pulled his lightsaber, followed by laughter.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, for sure.
56:17
SPEAKER_00: I think though one of the most gangster moments Yoda has is when he walks into the Lord Sidious's like chamber and he just takes out the guards with like yeah, just just yeah, yeah, that was cool.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: Um okay, so any final comments before we rate this cigar?
56:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't think so.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like I said, this this is a trilogy that um it is loaded with problems, but it has a pretty clean narrative overall, and there's some good characters, good design, good good music.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's still a lot of the things that we love about Star Wars in this, so I can't hate them fully.
56:56
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I would say lowest point for me, like I said, is Attack of the Clones, highest point revenge.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: And episode one is just yeah, it's it's a part of childhood, it's hard for me to just separate that.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I guess the one one one final final thought.
57:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think episode one is the best looking of the three of these because it was shot on film.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: Those early 2000s digital cameras were kind of rough, yeah.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: And I don't like how aggressively contrasty and harsh the uh uh second and third films look.
57:29
SPEAKER_01: It's not my favorite.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, I I totally see what you're saying, yeah.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh in terms of Rorschach towards the end here, um, less sweetness, definitely more meaty um for me.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: A little bit of that like spice tingle, maybe that cinnamon on the back end.
57:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, what do you think?
57:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I agree.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it might be that the um kind of like fun little weird flavors dancing on the edge of the profile have kind of faded away, and now the stuff that's remained is a little bit more intense.
58:02
SPEAKER_00: But a lot going on for it.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: A lot going on.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: So let's go ahead and rate it.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: What out of ten?
58:15
SPEAKER_00: All right.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: I have okay, 7.8 for me and an eight for you.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: Nice, pretty close again.
58:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's one of those cigars.
58:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for$8.50, it smokes way above its price point.
58:32
SPEAKER_00: Really good stuff.
58:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, excellent release.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then final, before we uh head off, I just have to mention join us in two days on Thursday.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have Tony Barrios on, and for that, we have a very special Stallone sampler, which has our naysayer.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: That torpedo in there is a six-year-old aged Corojo, and then that one in the middle is the last, very, very last boxes I was able to get of the Bucephalus War Horse.
58:58
SPEAKER_00: So, this is a uh aged in rum cask cigar, exceptional if you haven't had it, limited amount.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: So, jump on uh the raffle and uh pick up sampler, amazing stuff, and join us Thursday.
59:10
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be great.
59:12
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
59:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks, Curtis.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have the daunting task of the sequel trilogy next week.
59:19
SPEAKER_01: Good your loins, CNC people.
59:22
SPEAKER_00: All right, we'll see you guys next week.
59:24
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for jumping on, Curtis.
59:25
SPEAKER_00: You have a great night.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: Yep.