Latest / Speaking of Meaning / Why Most Pitches Fail — and How to Get to Yes | Neil Greenspan

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Why Most Pitches Fail — and How to Get to Yes | Neil Greenspan · Speaking of Meaning

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Speaking of Meaning,
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SPEAKER_00: the podcast that helps you become a stronger communicator,
0:08
SPEAKER_00: build deeper relationships,
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SPEAKER_00: and create impact that matters.
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I'm your host,
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Ibrahim,
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a professional speaker,
0:16
soccer referee,
0:17
and leader.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: I love helping other people and I also love to learn new things.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: This podcast is about better communication,
0:26
SPEAKER_00: greater impact at work,
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SPEAKER_00: in your home and in the world out there.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, everybody, to Speaking of Meaning.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: I am Ibrahim, and today I welcome back my good friend, Neil Greenspan.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Neil, welcome back to the show.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: It's great to be back.
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I'm honored to be not only the first,
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but the first second time guest,
0:59
too.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, welcome back, my friend.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: I remember our first episode together and you were my first guest.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: We talked broadly about communication,
1:11
but I know that you are an expert on pitching and you have a
1:16
company called Pitch
1:18
SPEAKER_00: PhD.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: That's correct.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: How did you end up becoming an expert on pitching?
1:26
SPEAKER_03: So my story starts probably when I finished school,
1:34
actually when I finished my MBA and I got into marketing and
1:39
the companies that I
1:39
SPEAKER_03: worked for at the time,
1:40
SPEAKER_03: this was when I was living in New York,
1:42
SPEAKER_03: the companies that I was working for at the time
1:44
SPEAKER_03: We were never the least expensive option.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: In fact,
1:48
SPEAKER_03: we were almost always the most expensive option,
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SPEAKER_03: which meant from very early on in my career,
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I needed to learn how to explain the value of a product or
1:57
service and not solely
1:59
SPEAKER_03: rely on being the least expensive.
2:05
SPEAKER_03: What that meant was that as I advanced in my career,
2:10
SPEAKER_03: and even though I was in marketing,
2:12
SPEAKER_03: I was always the right-hand person for salespeople.
2:16
SPEAKER_03: Sure, I sat at the desk and did my work, but I went out on sales calls.
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SPEAKER_03: I produced materials directly for salespeople.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: And again, it was always around the value.
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When I moved to Sweden and found myself in a situation where I
2:30
wasn't really
2:31
SPEAKER_03: getting any jobs that were permanent and that I found interesting,
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SPEAKER_03: I started networking.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: And I ended up at an event called Startup Dojo,
2:39
SPEAKER_03: which 12 years later,
2:40
SPEAKER_03: it's actually still going on down in Malmö,
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SPEAKER_03: about 30 minutes from where I live.
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SPEAKER_03: And at Startup Dojo, this was where entrepreneurs could pitch their idea.
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SPEAKER_03: And I was there one night and I heard a young man
2:53
SPEAKER_03: trying to explain his idea.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: And in his pitch, I could tell he was a really bright guy.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: But the way he was describing things, it wasn't very clear.
3:07
SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure that I had a confused look on my face.
3:10
So I looked around and I saw there were a lot of people who
3:13
were like,
3:14
what,
3:15
what?
3:16
SPEAKER_03: And some of the questions were, hey, ma'am, I don't get it.
3:20
and during that question and answer session specifically i said
3:23
you know what this
3:25
guy's pretty bright i bet you his idea is pretty good because
3:28
you could pick up at
3:29
least something from it but he's not very good at explaining
3:32
his idea and i think
3:33
that's going to limit his his chances of success and then i
3:37
said oh you know what
3:38
SPEAKER_03: though
3:39
SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm good at.
3:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm good at taking complex things, right?
3:44
SPEAKER_03: Or non-complex things and making them easy to understand.
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SPEAKER_03: And then perhaps most importantly,
3:50
making people understand what the value is of what it is that
3:54
you're doing.
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SPEAKER_03: So in that instant,
3:57
SPEAKER_03: at that time,
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I was just going by Perfect Your Pitch because now I have kind
4:01
of two legs.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: Pitch PhD is the main brand.
4:05
But perfect your pitch is the...
4:10
When I say in person,
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it could be through video calls as well.
4:13
SPEAKER_03: But it's the personal coaching and training.
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SPEAKER_03: Can be one-on-one, can be in workshops.
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I'm flexible and I do pitch training and coaching in all
4:23
different situations.
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SPEAKER_03: But then a few years back, I created an online course, a digital course.
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SPEAKER_03: And that goes under the brand of Pitch Ninja.
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So Pitch PhD is kind of hopefully the outcome of what you get
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either from working
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SPEAKER_03: from me or by taking my digital online course.
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SPEAKER_03: But when you talk about the specific products,
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SPEAKER_03: it's Perfect Your Pitch is,
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SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: the in-person individual coaching.
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And then Pitch Ninja is for those of you who would prefer to be
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trained digitally
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SPEAKER_03: through videos.
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SPEAKER_03: And then there are exercises with that as well to get better.
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SPEAKER_03: And 14 years later, here I am still doing it.
5:02
Is a pitch about persuasion,
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or is it about explaining an idea,
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or is it both?
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I would say that what differentiates,
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let's say,
5:18
a pitch from a presentation is
5:21
SPEAKER_03: When we're talking now about me speaking to you as a pitch, right?
5:27
Because sometimes we send a pitch,
5:30
a PowerPoint deck or a PDF or something like that.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: But when we talk about doing it verbally,
5:35
SPEAKER_03: again,
5:35
SPEAKER_03: whether it's online or in person,
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SPEAKER_03: a pitch has a specific purpose and persuasion is a good word for that.
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SPEAKER_03: So my definition of a good pitch
5:52
is getting the person that you're speaking to to nod their head
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when you're asking
5:58
SPEAKER_03: them to do something.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: So you could be pitching to 400 people,
6:07
but maybe there are only 30 people in that audience who might
6:10
be your customers if
6:11
SPEAKER_03: it's a customer pitch.
6:12
Because whether it's a customer pitch or an investor pitch,
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they're quite different.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: But persuasion is still what you're looking to do.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: Now, what you're persuading them to do is quite different too.
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Even customer pitches,
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they could be different depending on the situation.
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SPEAKER_03: If you're standing up on stage,
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SPEAKER_03: and you're not really,
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SPEAKER_03: let's say,
6:29
SPEAKER_03: talking to them in a room,
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SPEAKER_03: the pitch needs to be much more broad.
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SPEAKER_03: And the follow up will be something like,
6:35
SPEAKER_03: you know,
6:35
maybe go to our website so you can see a video on how we
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demonstrate the product.
6:41
SPEAKER_03: Or it could be contact me.
6:42
SPEAKER_03: If you have the ability for slides,
6:44
SPEAKER_03: you might want to put an email address up on up on the slides.
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SPEAKER_03: And that's called a call to action.
6:48
SPEAKER_03: And that call to action.
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I'm sorry if I keep touching my ears,
6:52
my ear,
6:52
my ear pods kind of slide out quite often.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: But but
6:58
SPEAKER_03: But it's called a call to action.
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SPEAKER_03: And what you're trying to do is get somebody to say,
7:02
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
7:02
I need to check out that website because I really want to see
7:04
the demo of this
7:05
SPEAKER_03: product that they just explained to me.
7:09
SPEAKER_03: So you do need to explain some of it as well.
7:12
SPEAKER_03: But you need to remember the goal and then how you reach the goal.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: For me, that's where the fun in pitching comes.
7:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
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because I have structures and I have tips and I can say,
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do this,
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don't do that.
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SPEAKER_03: But the bottom line is,
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SPEAKER_03: is that if I tell you don't do this,
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SPEAKER_03: do that,
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SPEAKER_03: and you do do this and you don't do that,
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SPEAKER_03: but your pitch is still successful,
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SPEAKER_03: good on you.
7:37
SPEAKER_03: Because for me, it's all about the outcome.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: It's much less about how you get there.
7:42
SPEAKER_03: I can say that there are some rules that
7:45
when they've been broken,
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I can I can honestly say have never led to a successful pitch.
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But most of the rules,
7:53
most of the tips,
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they're flexible because situations are different.
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SPEAKER_03: And then the bottom line is that I could give you a pitch, right?
8:02
SPEAKER_03: And then maybe tomorrow I could talk to John and you could love it.
8:05
SPEAKER_03: You could say, oh man, this is great.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: Neil, where do I sign up?
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And then tomorrow I could give the same exact pitch to John and
8:11
John might go,
8:12
huh?
8:13
SPEAKER_03: Right?
8:14
SPEAKER_03: And that's okay.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: The objective of the pitch isn't to get everybody
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SPEAKER_03: to nod along.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: It's to get the people that you're trying to nod along to nod along.
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SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be everyone.
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SPEAKER_00: Okay, so basically getting to a yes.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: Getting to a yes.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a great way to put it.
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SPEAKER_03: Can I use that?
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And so,
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SPEAKER_00: What I'm thinking about is then what is a good pitch or a perfect pitch?
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I know there's nothing called a perfect pitch,
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but what is a good pitch,
8:49
would you say?
8:49
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think I answered that.
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A perfect pitch,
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and I'm going to use your line,
8:53
is when you get to the yes.
8:56
SPEAKER_03: Because,
8:57
SPEAKER_03: again,
8:57
SPEAKER_03: I have structures,
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SPEAKER_03: I have tips,
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SPEAKER_03: I have things that I can advise or that I do advise my customers with,
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SPEAKER_03: and I'll call them customers.
9:07
And if they say,
9:11
no,
9:11
I think I'd rather do it this way,
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and they still get to the yes,
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SPEAKER_03: then that's a good pitch because that's the goal of a pitch.
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So I think I started going down this road before,
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but I went a little bit off.
9:22
So a pitch is a type of a presentation,
9:24
but not all presentations are pitches.
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SPEAKER_03: Sometimes presentation is simply to inform, right?
9:30
SPEAKER_03: Presentations can also be used to entertain, right?
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SPEAKER_03: Now a pitch can, a part of a pitch you can inform
9:37
SPEAKER_03: You can entertain.
9:38
SPEAKER_03: It could be interesting to listen to you.
9:40
But what makes a pitch difference is what you said,
9:44
that it's about persuasion.
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SPEAKER_03: All presentations aren't necessarily about persuasion, but a pitch is.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: A pitch is always about, like you said, getting to yes.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: But I guess a good pitch, do you have a certain structure?
9:59
SPEAKER_00: I do.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Do you start with a problem and then you introduce a solution?
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SPEAKER_03: I do.
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SPEAKER_03: So when I first started going to pitch events,
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SPEAKER_03: after I kind of announced myself as a pitch coach,
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SPEAKER_03: I went to an event called Pitcher's Corner.
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And at Pitcher's Corner,
10:17
the structure that they taught was something called NABC.
10:21
which was created by an organization at Stanford University
10:23
called Stanford Research Institute.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Did you say N-A-B-C?
10:27
SPEAKER_03: No, N-A-B-C.
10:28
SPEAKER_03: N-A-B-C.
10:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you.
10:31
SPEAKER_03: And those stand for need, approach, benefits, competition.
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SPEAKER_03: And when I first heard it, at that point, I wasn't leading it.
10:42
SPEAKER_03: I was kind of sitting in a chair just giving feedback.
10:45
SPEAKER_03: And I was an entrepreneur.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: I fancied myself an entrepreneur as well.
10:49
and i kind of crossed my arms and i'm like structure yeah i'm
10:53
an entrepreneur we
10:54
don't need no stinking structures we eat structures for
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breakfast and i can tell
10:58
you i'm well i was wrong i'm a 180 degree convert because what
11:04
what that structure
11:05
does what that nabc structure does is it gives you the frame
11:09
what you then paint on
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SPEAKER_03: the canvas your actual pitch you can be very creative right
11:14
What that frame does,
11:15
though,
11:16
is it ensures that you focus on the most important things.
11:20
So Stanford University is positioned in the heart of Silicon
11:23
Valley,
11:23
right?
11:24
SPEAKER_03: And the way the NABC came about,
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SPEAKER_03: so the myth goes,
11:28
SPEAKER_03: the urban legend,
11:29
SPEAKER_03: is that,
11:30
SPEAKER_03: you know,
11:31
when you go to Silicon Valley and you're waiting in line at
11:34
Starbucks to get your
11:35
SPEAKER_03: half,
11:35
SPEAKER_03: pump,
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SPEAKER_03: triple,
11:36
SPEAKER_03: decaf,
11:37
SPEAKER_03: latte,
11:38
SPEAKER_03: upside down,
11:38
SPEAKER_03: whipped cream,
11:39
SPEAKER_03: no foam,
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SPEAKER_03: you could be pitched by an entrepreneur.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: an idea.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: Now, I have a lot of family, actually.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: Most of my family lives in and near Silicon Valley.
11:49
SPEAKER_03: And I've been in Starbucks there and other coffee shops.
11:51
SPEAKER_03: I've never been pitched.
11:53
SPEAKER_03: Maybe people don't like the way I look or whatever.
11:55
But they were worried that there would be people like that
12:00
gentleman I told you
12:01
about at Startup Dojo that were bright and probably had really
12:05
good ideas,
12:06
SPEAKER_03: but were not good at communicating them.
12:08
SPEAKER_03: So they gave them a structure and they said,
12:09
SPEAKER_03: look,
12:10
SPEAKER_03: even if you're not the world's greatest communicator,
12:13
SPEAKER_03: If you tell people, this is the problem that we fix, the need, okay?
12:18
SPEAKER_03: And then in the approach, this is how we fix it.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: Not getting technical, right?
12:24
SPEAKER_03: If you have a technical solution, of course the technology is important.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: You don't have a solution without it.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: However,
12:30
SPEAKER_03: especially early on,
12:32
SPEAKER_03: if you get too deep into tech speak,
12:34
SPEAKER_03: you get people like me who are not technical and we go,
12:38
SPEAKER_03: what?
12:38
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what you're talking about.
12:40
But if you explain the approach more as to how your solution
12:45
works for your user,
12:46
right?
12:47
SPEAKER_03: Then it gets people interested.
12:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do have that problem.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: And wow, that sounds like a great solution for that problem.
12:53
And then,
12:54
especially if it's a short pitch,
12:55
you call an elevator pitch,
12:56
right?
12:56
SPEAKER_03: If you stick to maybe two maximum three benefits and you speak,
13:00
SPEAKER_03: I call this speaking in bullet points,
13:03
SPEAKER_03: right?
13:03
We've all seen PowerPoint presentations where,
13:05
you know,
13:06
that you write in bullet points.
13:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, in a short pitch, especially,
13:09
SPEAKER_03: I train people to speak in bullet points.
13:11
SPEAKER_03: And then there's the rule of three,
13:12
SPEAKER_03: which for whatever reason,
13:15
SPEAKER_03: one is not enough,
13:16
SPEAKER_03: two,
13:17
SPEAKER_03: three is good,
13:18
SPEAKER_03: four is too many.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: So the rule of three.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: So if you can communicate three benefits, not features, but benefits.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Benefits, yeah.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: quickly, then people understand, wow, this sounds something.
13:30
I always use a mobile phone as my example when I talk about
13:34
benefits because all
13:35
SPEAKER_03: mobile phones have chips.
13:36
SPEAKER_03: Again, as a non-technical guy, I don't know what my chip is.
13:40
But I would even be willing to bet that the people who do know
13:43
what chip is in
13:44
SPEAKER_03: their phone and do care about what chip is in their phone
13:47
SPEAKER_03: They care about the benefits that the chip gives.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: It's not really what the chip is.
13:51
SPEAKER_03: It's what that chip represents.
13:53
SPEAKER_03: It's fast.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: Boom.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: I press the icon.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: My app opens up.
13:56
SPEAKER_03: It's stable.
13:57
SPEAKER_03: I can have 27 apps open on my phone and my phone doesn't crash.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: And it's not power thirsty.
14:02
SPEAKER_03: So I can be out all day and not have to worry about charging my phone.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: So those are three benefits of the chip.
14:08
SPEAKER_03: The chip is the feature.
14:10
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people pitch the features.
14:14
SPEAKER_03: But,
14:14
SPEAKER_03: you know,
14:14
SPEAKER_03: if I told you,
14:16
SPEAKER_03: I got the X963A12 chip in this,
14:20
SPEAKER_03: and then I move on,
14:21
SPEAKER_03: you'd be like,
14:22
SPEAKER_03: oh,
14:23
SPEAKER_03: what?
14:24
SPEAKER_03: I don't know why my earbuds keep falling out.
14:26
SPEAKER_03: Sorry about that.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: You don't care.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: You don't know what that means.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: But if I tell you,
14:32
SPEAKER_03: and the chip in here is super fast,
14:36
SPEAKER_03: you can have 27 apps open,
14:38
SPEAKER_03: your phone doesn't crash,
14:39
SPEAKER_03: and it's not gonna drain your battery.
14:40
SPEAKER_03: You can actually go two days without charging your phone.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: that means something to you.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: And the C stands for competition.
14:47
SPEAKER_03: And the C is interesting because the way I coach is I say,
14:52
SPEAKER_03: if you do a really good job explaining the N,
14:54
SPEAKER_03: the need,
14:54
SPEAKER_03: the problem that you solve,
14:56
SPEAKER_03: and I understand how you solve it,
14:58
SPEAKER_03: the A,
14:58
SPEAKER_03: the approach,
14:59
SPEAKER_03: and then you give me three quick fire benefits,
15:01
SPEAKER_03: I don't really need a C with one exception.
15:05
that exception is now if you want to have a c and if you want
15:08
to tell people why
15:10
you're better go for it it's just especially in a short pitch
15:13
in an elevator pitch
15:14
it's not always necessary um but but the one time that you
15:18
should always have about
15:20
the competition and why you're better and i say that
15:22
specifically shouldn't talk
15:23
about why they're worse you should talk about why you're better
15:25
because then the
15:25
focus is on you but when you do need a competition is when
15:30
you're going into a
15:32
SPEAKER_03: market where there are clear market leaders
15:34
SPEAKER_03: So again,
15:35
SPEAKER_03: if we take a mobile phone,
15:36
SPEAKER_03: cell phone for you American listeners,
15:38
SPEAKER_03: as an example,
15:40
SPEAKER_03: then you're going up against the giants,
15:43
SPEAKER_03: right?
15:43
SPEAKER_03: You're going up against Samsung and Apple.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: And yes, there are others, but let's just say those two.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: But if you say to them,
15:49
SPEAKER_03: if you say to somebody,
15:50
SPEAKER_03: and my new mobile phone,
15:52
SPEAKER_03: unlike what's out there today,
15:54
SPEAKER_03: you can change the battery.
15:56
SPEAKER_03: The structure is made to last up to four years,
16:00
SPEAKER_03: and we use no rare earth mineral,
16:02
SPEAKER_03: so it's much more friendly to the planet.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: Now, maybe some people don't care about that.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, fair enough, right?
16:08
But you've clearly distinguished yourself for people that do
16:11
care about that.
16:13
SPEAKER_03: So,
16:14
SPEAKER_03: you know,
16:14
SPEAKER_03: if you're struggling with,
16:16
SPEAKER_03: let's say,
16:16
SPEAKER_03: maybe going a little bit too long,
16:18
consider making sure that your A and your Bs are super sharp
16:22
and in a row.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: And then I understand why you're a better choice than the competitors.
16:29
SPEAKER_03: So big fan of structure now, Iba, for sure.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: So what I hear you say,
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Neil,
16:40
SPEAKER_00: is the N stands for need,
16:45
SPEAKER_00: A,
16:45
SPEAKER_00: approach,
16:46
SPEAKER_00: B,
16:47
SPEAKER_00: benefit,
16:47
SPEAKER_00: and C,
16:48
SPEAKER_00: competition.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And the need, you basically address the problem, right?
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, correct.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: And the approach, how you solve it.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: The benefit is basically you list two, three benefits.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_03: And again, stay clear of the features.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: Stay clear of feature speak, right?
17:09
SPEAKER_03: It's not the chip.
17:10
SPEAKER_03: It's what the chip delivers for the user, the customer.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: What it can deliver for the customer.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: And then the competition, don't talk about them.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Talk about why you are better than the competition.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: You summed that up really well.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Very good explaining that.
17:33
So now we've talked about what is a good pitch and I hear you
17:35
say it's getting to
17:37
SPEAKER_00: yes and also having a clear structure.
17:41
And so do you see a lot of mistakes and what are the most
17:47
common mistakes pitchers make?
17:52
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I see mistakes all the time.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: If I didn't see mistakes, I'd be out of a job.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: So I guess the good thing about it is,
17:59
is that even when somebody works with me and they get good and
18:02
it doesn't mean that
18:03
SPEAKER_03: they never make mistakes.
18:04
Of course,
18:04
they make mistakes and you can always tweak and make your pitch
18:07
better.
18:08
But there's still there's there's always a new generation of
18:11
entrepreneurs,
18:12
SPEAKER_03: of students coming along that need to learn that need to learn pitching.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: So that's one good thing about being a pitch coach.
18:20
I'll never run out of customers,
18:21
out of people who need to learn this important skill.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: So.
18:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, mistakes.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, I got lost there.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: So I think I think.
18:35
One of the most common mistakes people make is they think that
18:41
just because I'm
18:42
SPEAKER_03: standing on stage or I'm talking to you and you're listening,
18:44
SPEAKER_03: you're interested in what I have to say.
18:46
So they'll come on and they'll go,
18:48
hi,
18:49
yeah,
18:49
thanks for taking my call today.
18:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm Neil.
18:54
SPEAKER_03: I work at PitchBHD and I help people learn how to pitch.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: Now, if you invited me to the call, chances are you're going to listen.
19:02
SPEAKER_03: But if it's,
19:02
SPEAKER_03: let's say,
19:03
SPEAKER_03: you know,
19:03
SPEAKER_03: at a place where you're listening in the audience or something,
19:08
SPEAKER_03: your next thought is,
19:09
SPEAKER_03: man,
19:09
I wonder how many likes I got on that photo of my breakfast I
19:12
posted on Instagram
19:13
SPEAKER_03: this morning.
19:15
SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, you know this, right?
19:17
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, your listeners don't yet, but I'll tell them that.
19:20
SPEAKER_03: Is that right?
19:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm from New York originally, and New Yorkers are rude.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: We're, you know, rude, nasty people.
19:26
And so I tell people when I want to get my New Yorker on is
19:29
nobody cares who you
19:31
SPEAKER_03: are or where you're from until you make them.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: So starting a pitch instead of like the way that I just did,
19:40
SPEAKER_03: if I said,
19:41
SPEAKER_03: um,
19:43
SPEAKER_03: with my work as pitch coach at pitch coach,
19:46
I've taught hundreds of startups that have raised hundreds of
19:49
millions of dollars
19:51
SPEAKER_03: in funding and have exceeded sales even greater than that.
19:56
Today,
19:56
I'm going to talk about how I can help you learn the important
19:59
skill of pitching.
20:02
SPEAKER_03: Isn't that a better opening?
20:03
And I'll admit that's not a great opening because I just kind
20:06
of did it on the fly.
20:08
But I do believe you're more interested now in listening to me
20:11
continue than in
20:13
SPEAKER_03: wondering how many likes you got.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: It's much better.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: It's a much, much better opening.
20:18
SPEAKER_03: So don't make that mistake.
20:20
SPEAKER_03: Even when I have slides, my first slide does not introduce me.
20:24
My first slide introduces something that I believe the audience
20:28
will find interesting.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: And then they'll go, aha.
20:32
SPEAKER_03: And then my next slide,
20:33
SPEAKER_03: I do introduce myself because hopefully at that point anyway,
20:36
SPEAKER_03: they do care who I am and where I'm from.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: So use the opportunity.
20:41
SPEAKER_03: It's called a hook.
20:42
SPEAKER_03: Use the opportunity, your first thing.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: one or two sentences,
20:46
SPEAKER_03: if it's a really short pitch,
20:48
SPEAKER_03: or your first few sentences to hook the audience.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: We all have mobile phones these days.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: They're the ultimate distraction machines.
20:58
SPEAKER_03: It's your responsibility.
21:00
Just because they're sitting in the audience doesn't mean
21:02
they're going to listen.
21:03
SPEAKER_03: It's your responsibility to make them want to listen.
21:05
And I would say that that goes for any time you're presenting
21:09
in front of an
21:09
SPEAKER_03: audience,
21:10
SPEAKER_03: whether it's pitch or not.
21:11
that you should hook the audience from the get-go,
21:15
from the first few sentences.
21:17
SPEAKER_03: But in a pitch,
21:18
SPEAKER_03: considering your goal is to persuade somebody to do this by the end,
21:23
I would go out on a limb and say it's even more important to
21:26
ensure that you do
21:27
SPEAKER_03: that in a pitch.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: So that's a big mistake.
21:31
And then another mistake,
21:32
and I'll stop after this because there are a lot more that I
21:34
could do.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: Because I work a lot of times with young entrepreneurs and young doesn't
21:40
SPEAKER_03: necessarily mean how old they are.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: It could also mean where they are in the process.
21:45
SPEAKER_03: They use what I call weak language and weak language, weak language.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: And this is especially true when they're talking to investors.
21:53
And they're saying,
21:53
well,
21:54
we're going to try to see if we could possibly maybe do this.
22:00
And yeah,
22:00
we think that the market might be somewhere around,
22:06
yeah,
22:06
this amount.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: And after 18 years, maybe we could get 1% of that market.
22:12
SPEAKER_03: No, it's weak language, right?
22:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying to lie.
22:17
SPEAKER_03: Don't say you've done something if you haven't.
22:19
SPEAKER_03: But you're not trying to do anything.
22:22
SPEAKER_03: If you're going to revolutionize,
22:25
SPEAKER_03: if your goal,
22:25
SPEAKER_03: if it says on your website,
22:27
SPEAKER_03: our goal is to revolutionize the mobile phone industry,
22:30
SPEAKER_03: that's what you should say in your pitch.
22:33
You don't say that you have until you have,
22:36
but you say that's what your goal is.
22:37
SPEAKER_03: Not, well, we're going to try to fix mobile phones, man.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: No.
22:42
SPEAKER_03: So don't use weak language.
22:43
SPEAKER_03: Be strong.
22:43
SPEAKER_03: Believe in your idea.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: Because good God,
22:45
if you don't believe in your idea and you don't communicate
22:48
that you believe in
22:48
SPEAKER_03: your idea,
22:50
not only will customers not really have much faith in you,
22:56
no investor will have faith in you.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: And just by that,
23:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
23:02
SPEAKER_00: no confidence and weak language,
23:05
SPEAKER_00: the other guy or the other girl might perhaps have an inferior product,
23:11
SPEAKER_00: but be more confident and appear to believe in their ideas strongly,
23:17
SPEAKER_00: their ideas somehow is more attractive.
23:20
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
23:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
23:21
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
23:22
SPEAKER_03: and again,
23:23
SPEAKER_03: this is not limited to pitching,
23:25
SPEAKER_03: but how you deliver your pitch,
23:26
SPEAKER_03: of course,
23:26
SPEAKER_03: is important.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: You need to show confidence.
23:29
SPEAKER_03: You need to be able to deliver it clearly.
23:32
We're not going to go into,
23:34
let's say,
23:34
specific public speaking tips and tricks in this one.
23:39
I think that's maybe a third visit for me,
23:42
if you want to explore that later on.
23:44
SPEAKER_03: But it's not that it's unimportant.
23:48
SPEAKER_03: I actually...
23:49
SPEAKER_03: Again,
23:50
SPEAKER_03: because I'm usually called into the process fairly early,
23:54
SPEAKER_03: my work normally focuses on structuring content.
23:59
SPEAKER_03: I'm a firm believer that pitching is a process.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that's a radical idea or anything like that.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: But by having a pitch,
24:09
SPEAKER_03: considering pitching as a process,
24:10
SPEAKER_03: you need to take it kind of one step at a time.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: Usain Bolt,
24:15
SPEAKER_03: at one years old,
24:17
SPEAKER_03: he was just learning how to walk,
24:18
SPEAKER_03: not become the world's fastest man.
24:21
So it's the same thing with pitching or presenting or even
24:24
public speaking.
24:25
But if we stick just to pitching,
24:27
if you focus on your structure and your content,
24:31
SPEAKER_03: you get confident in that, your delivery will automatically be better.
24:35
SPEAKER_03: But if you're not confident in your structure and content,
24:39
SPEAKER_03: and when I say confident,
24:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't mean memorizing a script.
24:41
SPEAKER_03: I do not believe in memorizing a script.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: But if you're not confident in that,
24:45
then it's really hard to get you to worry about vocal variety
24:50
and body language.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: And if you're doing it up on stage, stage presence, right?
24:54
SPEAKER_03: Because the only thing that you're thinking about is,
24:55
SPEAKER_03: oh my God,
24:55
SPEAKER_03: what am I gonna say next,
24:57
SPEAKER_03: right?
24:57
SPEAKER_03: So for me,
24:58
SPEAKER_03: my process very early on,
25:00
SPEAKER_03: I would say that 90 to 95% of what I coach on is content and structure.
25:06
SPEAKER_03: Because then when they get comfortable with that,
25:09
SPEAKER_03: then they can practice.
25:10
SPEAKER_03: And there are lots of different practicing tips.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: And when they practice in front of people,
25:14
SPEAKER_03: other people could say to them,
25:15
SPEAKER_03: hey,
25:16
SPEAKER_03: your pitch sounded really good,
25:17
but you were kind of looking up here or you had your hands in
25:20
your pocket the whole
25:21
SPEAKER_03: time.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: You were standing too far back.
25:22
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't really hear you.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: And then they can kind of build from there.
25:28
SPEAKER_03: But I don't believe that any good pitch coach starts with,
25:34
SPEAKER_03: you need to make eye contact with the audience because
25:38
Yeah,
25:38
if I'm looking at you,
25:40
but I'm talking nonsense,
25:42
it really isn't going to matter,
25:43
is it?
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: And you're touching on an important point here.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: You said confidence and believing in your ideas, knowing the structure.
25:56
It's like if somebody wants to ask you for money,
26:01
time,
26:02
or wants you to buy their product,
26:06
If they don't believe in themselves and their product,
26:11
it's instantly a turn off.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: Again, if I'm a customer, I'm going to give you money for your product.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: That's supposed to solve a problem or make my life easier in some way.
26:23
SPEAKER_03: If I'm an investor,
26:23
I'm going to give you money because I believe that together we
26:26
can make more money
26:27
SPEAKER_03: from that.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: That's an investor's job.
26:30
SPEAKER_03: So if you don't believe in your product or service,
26:33
or you don't communicate and you don't communicate that to me,
26:37
why would I give you money?
26:38
SPEAKER_03: Why would I give you time?
26:40
SPEAKER_00: And it's not about being perfect.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: You're talking about, we don't want somebody to be perfect.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: We want somebody to believe in their ideas, right?
26:47
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: And when you say be confident,
26:52
you don't mean don't be nervous because being nervous is
26:55
actually a good thing.
26:56
It means you care,
26:58
but at least be prepared and show us that you believe in your
27:02
ideas.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: Well,
27:04
SPEAKER_03: the interesting part is that you and I speak in front of people a lot,
27:08
SPEAKER_03: and we still probably get nervous,
27:10
SPEAKER_03: at least in certain circumstances,
27:12
SPEAKER_03: right?
27:12
So for us to expect somebody who doesn't speak in front of
27:15
people a lot to not be
27:16
SPEAKER_03: nervous,
27:17
SPEAKER_03: it's not based in reality.
27:18
But here's the interesting thing,
27:20
and I go back to my last answer,
27:22
is that be nervous.
27:24
SPEAKER_03: Like you said, it's a good thing.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: It means you care.
27:27
But if the nerves start affecting your performance,
27:31
well,
27:32
then we have some work to do.
27:34
But the more you prepare,
27:36
the more comfortable you feel with your structure and content,
27:40
SPEAKER_03: the less effect those nerves will have on you.
27:42
Because the thing you're going to be nervous about is standing
27:46
up and talking.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: You're not going to be nervous about, oh my God, what am I going to say?
27:50
SPEAKER_03: Nah, you got that.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: You know what you're going to say.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: And again, not about memorizing a script, but it's the messages.
27:56
SPEAKER_03: So as long as the message is either the same or similar,
28:00
then the words that I speak to you versus the words I speak to
28:03
the next person I
28:03
SPEAKER_03: pitch to matter far less.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: It's the message that you receive from me that's far more important.
28:12
What do great pitchers understand about listeners that average
28:20
ones don't?
28:22
SPEAKER_03: Well, the first thing they do is they understand who their listener is.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: When I first started pitch training,
28:28
SPEAKER_03: I had one slide that was called the Ten Commandments of Pitching.
28:32
SPEAKER_03: And commandment number one was know thy audience.
28:37
SPEAKER_03: So I have mentioned this already,
28:39
that when you're pitching to a customer versus when you're
28:41
pitching to an investor,
28:43
SPEAKER_03: it's a different pitch.
28:44
SPEAKER_03: Now, that doesn't mean 100% of the content is different.
28:48
SPEAKER_03: I would say that on average, it's probably somewhere around 25 to 30%.
28:50
SPEAKER_03: I've never actually, you know,
28:53
put it down but you still need to explain the need you still
28:57
need to explain the
28:57
approach but there's also a little bit more than an investor
29:00
needs so with the nabc
29:02
i've actually added three letters for an investor pitch i won't
29:05
go into them now
29:06
but um if you don't understand who the audience is then how are
29:12
you going to create
29:13
SPEAKER_03: a pitch
29:15
SPEAKER_03: Again,
29:15
if you're pitching at a big event and there's 400 people and
29:17
it's just a general
29:18
SPEAKER_03: pitch,
29:19
SPEAKER_03: that's a different story.
29:21
But if you are going to a company and you're going to pitch
29:27
your new mobile phone
29:28
SPEAKER_03: idea,
29:29
do you know if it's Barbara from sales who's going to be there
29:32
or is it Jim from
29:33
SPEAKER_03: accounting who's going to be there?
29:35
SPEAKER_03: Now, Barbara and Jim both work for the same company.
29:39
SPEAKER_03: They have different job titles.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: They have different interests,
29:42
SPEAKER_03: and they need to hear different value from what you're presenting.
29:46
Now,
29:46
if Barbara and Jim are going to be in the room together,
29:48
well,
29:49
then you need to expand it.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: You need to make sure that you cover both the points.
29:52
SPEAKER_03: But if you don't know that they're going to be there,
29:56
SPEAKER_03: you risk alienating one,
29:57
SPEAKER_03: if not both of them.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: OK,
30:00
SPEAKER_03: so knowing who's going to be in the room,
30:03
SPEAKER_03: more important,
30:04
SPEAKER_03: what their roles are,
30:05
SPEAKER_03: so you know what their expectations are.
30:07
That would be that that would be number one that good pitchers
30:11
understand.
30:13
And then and then number two is understanding that that a pitch
30:19
is a multifaceted
30:20
SPEAKER_03: communications tool.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: Many people,
30:23
SPEAKER_03: when they hear the word pitch,
30:24
SPEAKER_03: they've seen Shark Tank or Dragon's Nest or Drog Nested here in Sweden,
30:28
SPEAKER_03: right?
30:29
And they think that a pitch is only something entrepreneurs use
30:33
when they're
30:33
SPEAKER_03: begging investors for money.
30:35
SPEAKER_03: And that is one type of pitch.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: And for a lot of startups,
30:38
it's an important type of pitch because they need that
30:40
investment to build out
30:42
SPEAKER_03: their product.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: but there are far more uses for a pitch than just an investor pitch.
30:50
The second thing that a good pitcher knows is,
30:54
what is the goal of this particular pitch?
30:57
SPEAKER_03: If it's an investor and I'm pitching from the stage,
31:01
my goal is to make them curious to want to reach out to me to
31:04
book a meeting.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: That's my goal.
31:08
I tell people,
31:08
before you ever open your laptop,
31:10
if it's an Apple,
31:11
you've got Keynote.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: If it's a Windows machine, you've got PowerPoint or whatever.
31:16
and you start creating that presentation,
31:20
you have to answer two questions.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: Who am I speaking to?
31:24
SPEAKER_03: And what's the goal of this pitch?
31:26
If you answer those two questions and then start to create that
31:30
particular pitch
31:31
SPEAKER_03: based on the answers of those two questions,
31:33
SPEAKER_03: I guarantee you
31:36
that you will be further ahead than 90% of everybody else who's
31:41
going to pitch to
31:42
SPEAKER_03: that audience or to that investor.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Is it common that people use the same pitch to different leaders,
31:55
SPEAKER_00: different audience members,
31:57
SPEAKER_00: and so forth?
31:59
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you that some of the
32:02
SPEAKER_03: Should I use the word worst pitches?
32:04
Let's say most confusing pitches have been when I do pitch
32:08
coaching and they pitch
32:09
SPEAKER_03: and then we give them feedback,
32:11
SPEAKER_03: including me.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: I will ask them, is this a customer pitch or an investor pitch?
32:16
SPEAKER_03: Now, there can be other pitches.
32:17
So,
32:17
for example,
32:18
I just did a session yesterday,
32:19
and they were looking for a partner,
32:21
right?
32:22
SPEAKER_03: Not really an investor and not a customer.
32:24
SPEAKER_03: They were looking for a partner.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: But they knew.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: They knew who their audience was.
32:28
So they created a pitch that was especially benefits-based for
32:32
the partner that
32:33
SPEAKER_03: might be interested in it,
32:35
SPEAKER_03: in their particular idea,
32:37
SPEAKER_03: right?
32:37
SPEAKER_03: So when you...
32:42
SPEAKER_03: Geez, now I forgot your question again.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
32:45
SPEAKER_03: I think I went off on a tangent.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Do you see that people have the same pitch that they deliver to?
32:55
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: The most confusing pitches are when I ask that question and they say,
33:00
SPEAKER_03: oh,
33:00
SPEAKER_03: it's just to everybody.
33:02
SPEAKER_03: Because when you try to pitch to everybody, you don't reach anyone.
33:05
SPEAKER_03: You don't get to yes with anyone.
33:07
SPEAKER_03: Because...
33:09
If you're pitching to customers and you start talking about the
33:12
market size and
33:13
SPEAKER_03: what you need for an investor,
33:15
SPEAKER_03: I don't care.
33:17
SPEAKER_03: I don't care if I'm the customer.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: I don't care that you're only in the MVP stage.
33:21
SPEAKER_03: I don't care that it's going to take you three years to get to market.
33:24
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter to me.
33:25
SPEAKER_03: I care about what can you do for me.
33:27
SPEAKER_03: Right.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: You know, we're all selfish.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:30
SPEAKER_03: And yet if you have a job to do,
33:31
SPEAKER_03: because a lot of pitches are B2B and if it's a B2C pitch,
33:34
SPEAKER_03: so,
33:35
SPEAKER_03: you know,
33:35
SPEAKER_03: to a customer,
33:36
SPEAKER_03: I still want to know what can your product do for me?
33:39
You know,
33:40
in that case,
33:40
it's usually how do I save money or how do you make my life
33:43
easier?
33:44
SPEAKER_03: But I've seen plenty of people try to use the same pitch regardless.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: And it falls flat.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: Not even 99 out of 100 times, 100 out of 100.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: And look, I'm not a fan of extra work.
33:57
I'm not telling you,
33:58
you know,
33:59
create a brand new pitch every time you speak to somebody.
34:02
But you should have a clear pitch on the customer side that you
34:09
maybe tweak
34:10
SPEAKER_03: depending on who you're going to be speaking to.
34:12
SPEAKER_03: Right.
34:13
SPEAKER_03: So you don't need to redo the whole thing.
34:15
And if you are seeking for an investment,
34:17
you're going to have a separate investor pitch.
34:19
SPEAKER_03: And they might be 70% the same,
34:22
SPEAKER_03: but it's the 30% in the investor pitch that will get an investor to say,
34:26
SPEAKER_03: if it's early in the process,
34:28
SPEAKER_03: yes,
34:28
SPEAKER_03: we should take this conversation further.
34:30
Or if it's later in the process,
34:32
okay,
34:32
let's start talking about how we make this happen.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: So what role...
34:44
does because now you know you know the audience you know what
34:49
your goal is you've
34:51
prepared you're confident in your subject you feel good about
34:56
the product the
34:57
service you you have what role do tension play when you are
35:03
delivering your pitch
35:06
SPEAKER_00: and what about emotions and storytelling
35:11
SPEAKER_03: Explain a little bit what you mean by tension.
35:13
SPEAKER_03: What role does tension play?
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Well,
35:16
SPEAKER_00: you know,
35:16
SPEAKER_00: usually when you try to elicit emotions,
35:22
SPEAKER_00: curiosity,
35:23
SPEAKER_00: elicit emotions,
35:24
SPEAKER_00: telling stories and so forth.
35:28
Yeah,
35:29
so storytelling can be a great tool to use when you're telling
35:37
a pitch.
35:37
Some of the best pitches I've ever seen have been because of a
35:41
personal connection
35:43
SPEAKER_03: to the problem that they end up solving.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times,
35:50
SPEAKER_03: again,
35:51
SPEAKER_03: because they're new to the process,
35:52
SPEAKER_03: they're worried about talking about their personal problems.
35:56
SPEAKER_03: their personal connection to it.
35:58
SPEAKER_03: But when they get down to it,
35:59
and let's just say it's fixing a problem that their mother had
36:06
the last time they
36:06
SPEAKER_03: were in the hospital,
36:10
SPEAKER_03: when they talk about it,
36:12
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's creating tension,
36:14
SPEAKER_03: but it's certainly creating a connection.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: We have all these acronyms,
36:20
SPEAKER_03: whether it's B2B or B2C or an investor pitch or B2G,
36:23
SPEAKER_03: the government,
36:24
SPEAKER_03: whatever.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: But
36:26
The bottom line is that everyone you're pitching to is a human
36:31
being,
36:32
okay?
36:33
SPEAKER_03: And when you can connect on that level,
36:37
SPEAKER_03: you have a far greater chance of getting them to listen to you.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: And if they listen to you and they're the right audience for you,
36:46
SPEAKER_03: you have a greater chance of getting to a yes.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: Now,
36:49
SPEAKER_03: if they're not the right audience,
36:50
SPEAKER_03: then maybe you should ask yourself,
36:51
SPEAKER_03: what am I doing in this room,
36:52
SPEAKER_03: right?
36:53
SPEAKER_03: But, well, at least you got some good practice.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: But if you don't connect with them, your odds go much lower.
37:01
SPEAKER_03: So storytelling, I think, is a great way to do that.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: I like to use humor, right?
37:07
SPEAKER_03: I think it relaxes people.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: I think that...
37:13
when you talk about something personal,
37:15
it shows that you're a human being too.
37:17
And it also shows that maybe you're somebody that I can do
37:20
business with or that I
37:22
SPEAKER_03: can trust at least.
37:26
SPEAKER_03: If you watch any of these investment shows,
37:31
SPEAKER_03: you've probably seen sometimes the shark or the dragon,
37:35
SPEAKER_03: they say to Iba,
37:36
SPEAKER_03: wow,
37:39
Yeah,
37:39
your idea,
37:40
I mean,
37:40
it sounds interesting,
37:41
but I think we need to work it.
37:42
SPEAKER_03: But you know what, man?
37:43
You delivered a great pitch,
37:45
and I love your enthusiasm,
37:46
and your background is amazing.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to make you an offer.
37:50
You've probably heard some times that's been,
37:54
but what you've never heard is,
37:55
eBay,
37:56
great idea.
37:57
SPEAKER_03: Can't stand you.
37:58
SPEAKER_03: Man, you're arrogant.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: You have no experience in this, but I'll invest.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: You've never heard that.
38:03
SPEAKER_03: And I think that goes for customers as well.
38:09
SPEAKER_03: Now,
38:09
SPEAKER_03: again,
38:09
if you're selling to consumers and they buy your product and
38:13
there's no kind of
38:14
SPEAKER_03: one-on-one,
38:16
SPEAKER_03: then I would say that it's less important.
38:18
But if you're doing a B2B pitch where you're going to need to
38:22
implement the
38:23
SPEAKER_03: product,
38:23
SPEAKER_03: you're going to need to provide post-sale service,
38:25
SPEAKER_03: et cetera,
38:25
SPEAKER_03: et cetera,
38:26
SPEAKER_03: then making that human connection is super important.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: So, again, I would consider those first two questions.
38:34
SPEAKER_03: Who am I speaking to?
38:35
SPEAKER_03: And what's my goal with this particular pitch?
38:38
SPEAKER_03: And then use tools that help you get there.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: So connection with the audience, humor, basically it's all about trust.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: If they can trust you, they can do business with you.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: What about culture?
39:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so culture plays a big role, right?
39:05
SPEAKER_03: Being here in Europe,
39:07
SPEAKER_03: one of the things that's having spent,
39:11
SPEAKER_03: you know,
39:11
SPEAKER_03: closing in on 23 years in Europe at this point is that,
39:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
39:18
SPEAKER_03: culturally things are very different.
39:19
And especially when I do things at the university in this
39:23
master's program,
39:24
SPEAKER_03: there's 70 students and they're probably from maybe 35,
39:25
SPEAKER_03: 40 different countries.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: And so culturally, things are very different.
39:32
SPEAKER_03: And what I would say then at that point is that
39:37
SPEAKER_03: If you're pitching where it's not culturally diverse,
39:43
SPEAKER_03: so let's choose a country like Japan,
39:46
SPEAKER_03: very deep,
39:48
SPEAKER_03: strong culture,
39:50
is that you should learn a little bit about the culture before
39:52
you go there and you
39:54
SPEAKER_03: should try to implement that.
39:55
SPEAKER_03: Can you say hello in their language?
39:58
I went to France a couple of years ago and I gave a
40:02
presentation and I don't really
40:04
SPEAKER_03: speak French.
40:05
SPEAKER_03: But I learned how to say, you know, hello.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, my name's Neil.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: I'm really happy to be here today.
40:13
SPEAKER_03: Bonjour.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: Bonjour, Neil.
40:14
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: Je m'appelle Neil, right?
40:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm probably saying it poorly, but here was the thing.
40:21
SPEAKER_03: I said three sentences in French.
40:23
and I went around the room and every single one of them was
40:27
smiling and they all
40:28
SPEAKER_03: just lightened up.
40:29
SPEAKER_03: And then I stopped because I said,
40:31
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna continue to butcher your beautiful language any further,
40:35
SPEAKER_03: right?
40:36
But just that little bit,
40:39
it built some connection and it built some trust.
40:42
And then we ended up having a really great session and we were
40:45
together for about
40:45
SPEAKER_03: four hours after that.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: So I think that you can do that, but when you're in a multicultural,
40:52
SPEAKER_03: arena, like again, like we are often in Europe, right?
40:56
SPEAKER_03: You know,
40:57
was it 28 countries within a two and a half hour flight from
41:01
Copenhagen airport,
41:02
SPEAKER_03: which is the closest major airport to us.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: So quite often you're pitching to multicultural audiences.
41:10
SPEAKER_03: Then I would think, don't try to serve one, right?
41:13
SPEAKER_03: Be yourself.
41:14
SPEAKER_03: But if you follow that structure,
41:16
SPEAKER_03: then what's really the NABC structure,
41:18
SPEAKER_03: what's really important will come through in the pitch itself.
41:24
SPEAKER_03: So, again, consider the circumstances.
41:28
SPEAKER_03: It's all about context.
41:30
SPEAKER_03: If I go to Japan to pitch and the audience is 99% Japanese,
41:35
I should try to do something culturally appropriate and make
41:39
sure that I don't do
41:40
SPEAKER_03: anything culturally inappropriate.
41:43
SPEAKER_03: But if I'm speaking to a mixed audience, then I think...
41:46
SPEAKER_03: You know,
41:47
you should kind of be on the straight and narrow and focus
41:50
really on getting to
41:53
that yes without necessarily worrying about whether it's
41:56
somebody from Greece who's
41:57
SPEAKER_03: saying yes or whether it's somebody from Spain who's saying yes.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: So basically build the connection, build connection, build trust.
42:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, we're all humans, right?
42:11
I mean,
42:12
you know,
42:12
we can argue about countries' politics and things like that.
42:17
SPEAKER_03: And you've traveled too.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: You've been to other countries.
42:19
SPEAKER_03: I just spent a month in China last summer.
42:22
And I can tell you that the Chinese people that I got to spend
42:25
that time with are
42:26
SPEAKER_03: wonderful,
42:26
SPEAKER_03: amazing people.
42:27
SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
42:28
SPEAKER_03: They're just like you and me.
42:30
SPEAKER_03: They're just like you and me.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: They're curious.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: They want to learn.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: They want to give their families opportunities and stuff like that.
42:38
SPEAKER_03: There was no, oh, you're from the West and we're from the East.
42:44
SPEAKER_03: There was none of that.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: Because we're just human beings.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: So let's discount the politics.
42:48
SPEAKER_03: Right.
42:49
SPEAKER_03: And when you're when you're pitching to a multicultural audiences,
42:52
if you can connect with them and who if this is based on a true
42:57
story about a
42:59
problem that your mother had and now you're helping people to
43:02
ensure their mothers
43:03
SPEAKER_03: never experienced this.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you,
43:06
there's not a nationality in the world that's going to sit in
43:09
that audience and not
43:12
SPEAKER_03: say,
43:12
SPEAKER_03: wow,
43:13
SPEAKER_03: that's an amazing story and feel a connection to it.
43:18
Because we all can connect and it's just like Daniel Kahneman
43:23
in his bestselling
43:24
SPEAKER_00: book,
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Thinking Fast and Slow,
43:26
SPEAKER_00: who said,
43:27
SPEAKER_00: we make decisions based on emotions and we justify with logic.
43:34
And so when you connect with people,
43:36
you're connecting with them emotionally.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: So emotions before logic.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: And this ties back to your idea of trust, building trust and connection.
43:47
So one thing that I would say in the pitch is absolutely try to
43:51
connect on a personal level.
43:52
But you also need to remember that pitches are generally
43:55
delivered in some kind of
43:56
SPEAKER_03: business context.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: So think about...
44:02
SPEAKER_03: how far you want to go with the personal stories,
44:07
SPEAKER_03: let's say,
44:08
SPEAKER_03: if that's the way you're going to go.
44:10
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to give every single detail.
44:13
I would say that when you're doing something like that as a
44:16
pitch in a business
44:16
SPEAKER_03: context,
44:18
SPEAKER_03: it should be a little bit higher level.
44:21
SPEAKER_03: And there's probably a fine line between
44:23
SPEAKER_03: Maybe TMI, too much information, as opposed to making that connection.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: It's probably a very fine line.
44:29
But that's one reason why before you ever pitch for real,
44:34
you should always practice pitching.
44:35
And you should not always practice pitching with people who
44:38
know you and love you
44:39
SPEAKER_03: and know what you're doing.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: You should practice pitching to people who don't know what you're doing.
44:44
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they know you and love you, but they don't know what you're doing.
44:47
SPEAKER_03: so that they can give you some feedback going,
44:50
SPEAKER_03: wow,
44:51
SPEAKER_03: man,
44:51
SPEAKER_03: that was a great story,
44:52
SPEAKER_03: but I didn't really understand why I should care,
44:57
SPEAKER_03: right?
44:57
SPEAKER_03: Well, okay, now you know what you need to fix with that.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you are a perfect example of that.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: I think I've called you many, many times and I discussed my speeches.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: I even sent you text messages during the night about my podcast,
45:16
SPEAKER_00: about different speeches,
45:17
SPEAKER_00: and I wanted feedback from you.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: Because I know you can give me honest feedback.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: We know each other, but you can give me honest feedback that I trust.
45:29
SPEAKER_03: Well,
45:29
SPEAKER_03: so the feedback thing,
45:31
SPEAKER_03: I think it's so important,
45:33
SPEAKER_03: you know,
45:33
SPEAKER_03: and it's called different things,
45:35
SPEAKER_03: right?
45:35
SPEAKER_03: It's called,
45:36
SPEAKER_03: we don't really call it criticism anymore,
45:38
SPEAKER_03: where we're aware enough to understand,
45:40
SPEAKER_03: well,
45:41
SPEAKER_03: not everybody,
45:42
SPEAKER_03: obviously,
45:42
SPEAKER_03: there's still a lot of people out there that criticize.
45:46
But if you're trying to really help somebody and not just
45:50
inflate your own ego,
45:51
SPEAKER_03: you understand that criticism doesn't work.
45:54
SPEAKER_03: You understand also that even constructive criticism doesn't work.
45:57
SPEAKER_03: So what I call, what I do is I call it constructive feedback.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: Now I don't come, and you just said it, right?
46:06
SPEAKER_03: I don't come to, yeah, Iba, oh, that's great.
46:08
SPEAKER_03: That's so good.
46:08
SPEAKER_03: Iba, you're so good.
46:09
SPEAKER_03: You're so good.
46:10
SPEAKER_03: Because it's not about that.
46:12
SPEAKER_03: Look,
46:12
SPEAKER_03: if you came to me with a great idea,
46:13
SPEAKER_03: I would be the first one to say,
46:14
SPEAKER_03: man,
46:16
SPEAKER_03: that's an awesome idea,
46:17
SPEAKER_03: Iba,
46:17
SPEAKER_03: right?
46:18
But if you're coming to me for feedback,
46:20
I also,
46:21
I think you're expecting me
46:23
SPEAKER_03: if I,
46:24
SPEAKER_03: let's say,
46:24
SPEAKER_03: don't agree,
46:24
SPEAKER_03: or if I see a way that you can improve,
46:26
SPEAKER_03: I think you're expecting me to give you that information.
46:30
SPEAKER_03: So when I pitch coach,
46:32
SPEAKER_03: even if they've delivered an amazing pitch,
46:34
SPEAKER_03: I will tell them it's amazing,
46:35
SPEAKER_03: but I'll say,
46:36
SPEAKER_03: but here's one thing I think that you can do to make it better.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: And again,
46:40
SPEAKER_03: it's about using constructive feedback,
46:44
SPEAKER_03: because if I said to you,
46:46
SPEAKER_03: Iba,
46:46
SPEAKER_03: that was a horrible pitch.
46:49
SPEAKER_03: How do you get better from there?
46:51
SPEAKER_03: But if I say to you, hey, Iba,
46:52
SPEAKER_03: Here's the thing.
46:54
SPEAKER_03: When you explained the need, I didn't feel anything.
46:57
SPEAKER_03: I didn't understand the need.
46:58
SPEAKER_03: I don't really see this as a big problem.
47:01
SPEAKER_03: It really wasn't until you got to the benefits part where I thought,
47:03
SPEAKER_03: oh,
47:04
SPEAKER_03: well,
47:04
SPEAKER_03: maybe this is interesting because the approach I didn't get at all.
47:07
SPEAKER_03: You were just totally talking about technology and things like that.
47:10
SPEAKER_03: So what you need to do is you need to fine tune the need,
47:13
SPEAKER_03: not from your perspective,
47:14
SPEAKER_03: but from my perspective,
47:16
SPEAKER_03: right?
47:16
SPEAKER_03: That's also something in a pitch that you need to remember.
47:20
SPEAKER_03: You need to be speaking because you're trying to get to that.
47:22
Yes,
47:22
you need to speak what's important to them,
47:24
not what's important to you.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people make that mistake, too.
47:29
SPEAKER_03: So when you're doing that,
47:31
SPEAKER_03: OK,
47:32
SPEAKER_03: when you're putting yourself into the other person's shoes,
47:35
SPEAKER_03: you have a greater opportunity of getting to that.
47:37
SPEAKER_03: Yes, for sure.
47:39
So making sure that that you're clear in your delivery without
47:45
making it all about
47:46
SPEAKER_03: you and what your.
47:50
SPEAKER_03: what your goals are,
47:52
you have a much greater chance of connecting with people
47:56
without putting them off
47:57
SPEAKER_03: and getting to that yes for them to say,
48:00
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
48:00
SPEAKER_03: I think that this is something that's interesting for me.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: And you addressed this before, what's in it for them?
48:07
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: As a listener, I'm always thinking, what's in it for me?
48:11
SPEAKER_00: And as a speaker, I'm always thinking about what's in it for my audience?
48:16
SPEAKER_03: If you're going to inform people
48:20
somebody then you know i i still think that you should consider
48:24
what's in it for
48:25
them i still think that you should present it in such a way
48:27
that's interesting for
48:27
the for the audience but because you're going to inform and
48:31
you're not you're not
48:32
necessarily the goal isn't to get to a yes i'll throw it out
48:36
there it's probably
48:37
less important to think about what's in it for them i'm not
48:39
saying don't i do think
48:41
SPEAKER_03: you should
48:42
SPEAKER_03: But in a pitch, you absolutely have to.
48:44
Because if you want to get to that yes,
48:46
if you don't explain what's in it for them,
48:49
good luck.
48:50
SPEAKER_03: You're not going to get to that yes.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: So getting to yes is the goal, but some people get no.
49:01
And so when you as a presenter,
49:04
as a speaker,
49:05
as an entrepreneur,
49:06
when you hear a no,
49:09
SPEAKER_00: What's really happening in that room?
49:11
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
49:12
SPEAKER_00: Why did you get a no?
49:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
49:17
SPEAKER_03: Good question.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: Let's say you have a great product.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: But you still get a no.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: What do you think has happened?
49:24
SPEAKER_03: So I think this is going to be a tough thing for a lot of people to hear.
49:31
SPEAKER_03: Because the first thing I think a lot of people want to say is,
49:35
SPEAKER_03: oh,
49:36
SPEAKER_03: well,
49:36
SPEAKER_03: they just didn't understand.
49:38
The first thing you really need to ask yourself is,
49:41
did I do a good enough job explaining?
49:44
SPEAKER_03: Did I make them feel the need?
49:46
SPEAKER_03: Did I make them say, oh, and I hate when that happens.
49:50
SPEAKER_03: Why hasn't anybody come up with something to fix that, right?
49:54
SPEAKER_03: So when you make them feel that need,
49:56
and then you very clearly explain how your solution is going to
50:01
help them avoid
50:02
SPEAKER_03: that problem forever once they pay you.
50:06
SPEAKER_03: And then you give them two or three benefits, quick fire, right?
50:10
SPEAKER_03: you're going to get far more yeses.
50:11
SPEAKER_03: Again,
50:11
SPEAKER_03: you're never going to get 100% yeses because number one,
50:15
SPEAKER_03: people in the audience,
50:17
SPEAKER_03: they might not all have that same need.
50:19
Number two is we could be sitting next to each other and my
50:22
head is in a different place.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: But hearing no is hard for sure.
50:28
SPEAKER_03: I would actually say hearing nothing is even harder.
50:33
SPEAKER_03: I would rather somebody tell me a polite no than nothing at all.
50:38
SPEAKER_03: I think we talked about this in our first session together,
50:42
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:42
SPEAKER_03: people ghosting you and running away.
50:46
But if you focus on,
50:49
you know,
50:50
delivering a clear message and you're still not getting yeses,
50:53
SPEAKER_03: You have to take a look in the mirror and you have to say,
50:56
SPEAKER_03: all right,
50:56
SPEAKER_03: what is it that I'm doing?
50:57
SPEAKER_03: And again, this is where practice really matters.
51:01
I would then call somebody like you and I would deliver my
51:05
pitch and I would say,
51:06
SPEAKER_03: let me have a do bet.
51:08
SPEAKER_03: Why wouldn't you say yes to an offer like this?
51:11
SPEAKER_03: And I think that you would give me tough love.
51:14
SPEAKER_03: You would give me constructive feedback.
51:16
SPEAKER_03: Look, I didn't really, et cetera, et cetera.
51:20
So if you can't look in the mirror and you can't take
51:27
responsibility for the nose,
51:31
SPEAKER_03: you might not be the right person to be pitching.
51:35
SPEAKER_03: And again, I'm not saying it's easy.
51:37
SPEAKER_03: You know, as I run my own business, I get told no.
51:41
SPEAKER_03: Actually, I don't get told no that often.
51:43
Most people just disappear because they're too afraid to say no
51:46
these days,
51:47
SPEAKER_03: even politely,
51:48
SPEAKER_03: which we could have another podcast on that.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: But
51:53
But you have to be able to accept the no and make changes to
52:00
what you're doing
52:01
SPEAKER_03: until you start getting yes.
52:02
SPEAKER_03: In marketing, there's something called A-B testing.
52:05
And what A-B testing basically means is I'm going to try two
52:08
different things.
52:10
SPEAKER_03: And I'm going to measure which one gets a better result.
52:13
SPEAKER_03: Now, the result might just be yes, no.
52:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
52:15
SPEAKER_03: And if A is getting no and B is getting yeses,
52:18
SPEAKER_03: well,
52:18
SPEAKER_03: then I'm going to do more of B.
52:20
But if you only try A and you keep pushing A down people's
52:24
throats and it keeps
52:25
SPEAKER_03: getting no,
52:26
SPEAKER_03: no,
52:26
SPEAKER_03: no,
52:26
SPEAKER_03: no,
52:26
SPEAKER_03: no.
52:28
SPEAKER_03: Again, I don't know if Einstein really said this.
52:30
SPEAKER_03: He's the one that's credited for saying it is, you know, insanity.
52:33
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and
52:35
over and expecting
52:36
SPEAKER_03: different results.
52:36
So if you're continually pushing out the same message and
52:39
you're not getting any
52:40
SPEAKER_03: yeses,
52:41
SPEAKER_03: you got to change the message.
52:43
SPEAKER_03: And the best way to change the message,
52:45
SPEAKER_03: honestly,
52:46
is to deliver the message in front of people who aren't afraid
52:50
to give you
52:50
SPEAKER_03: constructive feedback.
52:52
And if you don't get constructive feedback,
52:55
this is also where you can take charge.
52:57
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to be a victim.
52:59
SPEAKER_03: If somebody doesn't know how to give you constructive feedback,
53:01
SPEAKER_03: you can actually take charge and help them help you.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: So if you told me,
53:06
SPEAKER_03: Neil,
53:06
SPEAKER_03: that was a terrible pitch,
53:08
SPEAKER_03: the way I could elicit something constructive from you is,
53:12
SPEAKER_03: Appreciate the honest diva.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: It's a little hard to hear, but I appreciate your honesty.
53:16
Can you tell me a little bit what specifically was it that
53:21
maybe you didn't
53:21
SPEAKER_03: understand or that I didn't deliver well that I could improve on?
53:26
SPEAKER_03: And then you could even break it down in the need.
53:28
SPEAKER_03: Did you understand the need?
53:29
SPEAKER_03: No, I didn't get it at all.
53:31
SPEAKER_03: Who cares about plastic in the ocean?
53:33
SPEAKER_03: Right?
53:36
SPEAKER_03: Again, just one problem.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: And really listen.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: And really listen.
53:39
SPEAKER_03: You really got to listen.
53:41
So you have to be able to understand that when somebody gives
53:45
you constructive
53:46
SPEAKER_03: feedback,
53:47
they're giving you a gift because they're giving you a tool
53:50
with which you can
53:51
SPEAKER_03: improve.
53:53
I don't believe criticism is a gift no matter how much people
53:57
like to say,
53:58
SPEAKER_03: oh,
53:58
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
53:59
SPEAKER_03: I'm just being honest.
54:00
SPEAKER_03: You know what?
54:02
SPEAKER_03: You might need to get the buzzer out here.
54:06
I don't know if you allow this kind of language,
54:08
but you can be honest and not be a dick.
54:13
SPEAKER_03: Again,
54:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry if you're going to have to burp that out,
54:17
SPEAKER_03: but again,
54:20
SPEAKER_03: I believe that my feedback is honest.
54:22
I believe that the feedback that I give people helps them to
54:25
become better.
54:26
SPEAKER_03: And I've gotten good at it because I do it and I do it a lot.
54:31
So if you're not good at it,
54:32
if you don't feel comfortable with it,
54:33
start doing it more often.
54:35
SPEAKER_03: Don't run away.
54:36
SPEAKER_03: Don't go in the other direction.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: Because when you can deliver constructive feedback as a gift,
54:42
SPEAKER_03: you can then more easily accept constructive feedback as a gift,
54:46
SPEAKER_03: meaning you can improve too.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: Because you know what?
54:50
SPEAKER_03: Nobody on this planet couldn't use some area of...
54:55
Nobody on this planet doesn't have at least one area that they
54:57
couldn't use a
54:58
SPEAKER_03: little bit of improvement in.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
55:03
It's all about self-awareness and really accepting and taking
55:09
responsibility for the outcome.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: I want to go back a little bit to pitching.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: Now you're on the stage.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: You're delivering your pitch.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: What signals will tell you
55:29
in the room,
55:29
of course,
55:30
with the audience in the room,
55:32
that you are losing the listeners.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm pitching to you.
55:36
Is there something I should be aware of that signals to me that
55:41
I'm losing you,
55:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm losing the audience?
55:44
SPEAKER_03: How many people are looking at this instead of looking at you?
55:48
SPEAKER_03: Looking at what?
55:51
SPEAKER_03: Their mobile phone, sorry.
55:53
SPEAKER_03: That's what I held up.
55:53
SPEAKER_03: It was my mobile phone.
55:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm part of a summer entrepreneurship program here at Ehrmanlund.
56:02
SPEAKER_03: And as part of the kickoff,
56:04
SPEAKER_03: they have an inspirational afternoon where they get about 300 teenagers.
56:08
SPEAKER_03: I think they're 15 and 16 years old.
56:13
And they get them and they have some speakers and they have
56:17
some entrepreneurs.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: And I've been honored to be asked to deliver my...
56:22
SPEAKER_03: I could get down to 30 minutes,
56:24
but it's a presentation about pitching because it is a program
56:27
in entrepreneurship.
56:28
SPEAKER_03: So they do need to learn about pitching.
56:29
SPEAKER_03: So I'm not totally out of place.
56:31
SPEAKER_03: And given that, number one, Swedish is not my native language, right?
56:35
SPEAKER_03: It's a challenge for me.
56:36
I can speak Swedish and I deliver it fine,
56:39
but it's certainly not perfect.
56:41
SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, is that, right, it's in the summer.
56:46
SPEAKER_03: They do this as part of, you know, like their summer programs and stuff.
56:53
SPEAKER_03: And,
56:55
SPEAKER_03: you know,
56:56
SPEAKER_03: the first time I did it,
56:57
SPEAKER_03: I was standing up and behind the audience the first time.
57:01
SPEAKER_03: And while people were up on the stage,
57:02
I was looking down at how many of them were looking at their
57:05
phones and not paying
57:05
SPEAKER_03: attention to the crowd.
57:07
And I said,
57:08
all right,
57:09
you know,
57:09
I thought the guy who was speaking was great.
57:11
SPEAKER_03: I said,
57:12
SPEAKER_03: so if half of them are looking at their phones,
57:14
SPEAKER_03: Neil,
57:14
SPEAKER_03: you're going to be happy if 20% of them aren't looking at their phones.
57:18
SPEAKER_03: So that's one way, right?
57:21
SPEAKER_03: But again, I'm a really, really strong believer that you set the tone.
57:27
SPEAKER_03: And the first sentences that you say...
57:30
SPEAKER_03: is you setting the tone to get as many people interested as possible.
57:37
SPEAKER_03: Now, in that case, I'm talking for 30 minutes.
57:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm not only up for two or three minutes giving a pitch.
57:43
SPEAKER_03: But if you can't keep somebody's attention in two to three minutes,
57:45
SPEAKER_03: you really need to reconsider the message,
57:49
SPEAKER_03: the content of your pitch.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: To set the tone for teenagers,
57:53
SPEAKER_03: I get up there and the first thing I do is I tell a joke about myself.
57:58
SPEAKER_03: Because they're going to notice directly that I'm not a native Swede.
58:01
And the interesting part is that these days,
58:03
many of them are not native Swedes.
58:08
SPEAKER_03: And so I make fun of my poor Swedish.
58:11
SPEAKER_03: And then they laugh.
58:12
SPEAKER_03: And then I empathize with them.
58:16
SPEAKER_03: I say,
58:17
I get that you don't want to listen to some old dude for the
58:20
next 30 minutes
58:21
SPEAKER_03: talking to you about something like pitching.
58:24
SPEAKER_03: But then I challenged them.
58:25
SPEAKER_03: I said,
58:25
SPEAKER_03: but if you give me the next 28 minutes of your time,
58:29
SPEAKER_03: I guarantee you that if you pay attention and listen,
58:32
you're going to learn something that's going to be valuable to
58:35
you at some point in
58:36
SPEAKER_03: your life,
58:37
SPEAKER_03: whether you're ever an entrepreneur or not.
58:40
SPEAKER_03: And I get a lot of positive feedback about that.
58:44
SPEAKER_03: Do they all put away their phones?
58:46
SPEAKER_03: Oh, God, no.
58:48
SPEAKER_03: But again, far more than 20% are listening.
58:53
SPEAKER_03: And that means I've done my job.
58:57
So I also think that practicing enough and being comfortable
59:02
enough in your content
59:04
SPEAKER_03: to look out into the audience and notice if you're losing them
59:07
SPEAKER_03: to pivot a little bit,
59:08
SPEAKER_03: slightly,
59:10
SPEAKER_03: during the audience,
59:12
SPEAKER_03: sorry,
59:12
SPEAKER_03: during your delivery to try to get them back.
59:16
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's doable, sometimes it's not.
59:18
SPEAKER_03: But if you just keep on keeping on doing what you're doing,
59:22
SPEAKER_03: you're probably not going to get them back.
59:23
SPEAKER_03: So do you have a joke that you could throw in in the middle?
59:28
SPEAKER_03: Could you do something totally unexpected,
59:31
like all of a sudden pull your mobile phone out of your pocket
59:33
and just go,
59:34
SPEAKER_03: oh,
59:34
SPEAKER_03: no,
59:34
SPEAKER_03: I don't need to take this call.
59:36
SPEAKER_03: You'll send people right back into what?
59:40
SPEAKER_03: What just happened?
59:42
SPEAKER_03: It's just one example.
59:43
SPEAKER_03: But if you continue,
59:44
SPEAKER_03: if you notice that you've lost them and you continue on the same path,
59:47
SPEAKER_03: you probably have very little chance of getting them back.
59:51
SPEAKER_03: But take the lesson, right?
59:53
SPEAKER_03: Try to get feedback from somebody who was there,
59:55
SPEAKER_03: maybe the organizer,
59:56
SPEAKER_03: and just say,
59:56
SPEAKER_03: hey,
59:56
SPEAKER_03: where do you think I lost them?
59:57
SPEAKER_03: What could I do better?
59:58
SPEAKER_03: What could I do different next time?
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: Hmm, hmm.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: This is basically about being present when you are in that room.
1:00:08
And so that's why I really appreciate the fact that you said in
1:00:11
the beginning,
1:00:12
SPEAKER_00: you have to be confident in the content with your message,
1:00:17
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:00:18
SPEAKER_00: If you know your content,
1:00:18
SPEAKER_00: if you know your message,
1:00:20
you're going to be present on the stage when you're delivering
1:00:22
your pitch,
1:00:23
SPEAKER_00: your message.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: And when you are present, you'll be able to pick up these clues.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: the ones you're talking about.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: And when you pick them up, you can be flexible and adjust accordingly.
1:00:37
But the problem I see often is a lot of people are up in their
1:00:41
heads and they don't even notice
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: when they've lost the audience.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_00: They have no idea they've lost the audience.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_03: And I've said it twice already and I'll repeat it one more time.
1:00:54
And I think what you just said is a perfect example of why you
1:00:57
don't want to try to
1:00:58
SPEAKER_03: memorize a script.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_03: When you're memorizing a script,
1:01:02
you are in your head because you're visualizing the words that
1:01:05
you want to say in
1:01:06
SPEAKER_03: the exact order and the exact words that you want to say them in.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_03: And God forbid you mess up one word.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_03: Now, look, everybody forgets what they're going to say sometimes, right?
1:01:18
SPEAKER_03: You know,
1:01:18
SPEAKER_03: the organization where we met at Toastmasters,
1:01:20
SPEAKER_03: we have a competition every year,
1:01:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:01:23
SPEAKER_03: and it's a global competition.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_03: And the one who wins is declared the world champion of public speaking.
1:01:29
And then they usually go on to have very nice professional
1:01:33
speaking careers after that.
1:01:35
And I saw somebody who had won the World Championship of Public
1:01:39
Speaking who was a
1:01:42
SPEAKER_03: very well-established,
1:01:44
successful public speaker in his career get up on stage and
1:01:49
draw a total blank in
1:01:50
SPEAKER_03: what he was going to say.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, is that...
1:01:53
you know he didn't freak out he owned it people started
1:01:57
screaming from the audience
1:01:58
we love you you got this stuff like that because here's the
1:02:02
thing the people in the
1:02:04
audience are rooting for you to succeed right but if you are
1:02:08
trying to memorize a
1:02:09
script you're far more likely to miss a word and go and go off
1:02:13
the rails because
1:02:14
SPEAKER_03: you are up in your head right finally when he came back right
1:02:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, man, he nailed it.
1:02:20
But he just,
1:02:21
he was up there and he's like,
1:02:22
I don't know what I'm going to say next.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_03: And then he's just like, give me a second.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, and he stood there and he started thinking.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_03: And that's when people started shouting, encouraging things to him.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_03: So yes, sometimes you're going to forget what you're doing.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_03: But I agree with you 100%.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_03: If you're not all up in your head.
1:02:40
Your ability to come back from that is significantly higher
1:02:44
than if you're just
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: saying,
1:02:45
SPEAKER_03: oh my God,
1:02:46
SPEAKER_03: what word was I supposed to say next?
1:02:47
SPEAKER_03: No, break that down, right?
1:02:49
Think about what's the message that I need to deliver here,
1:02:53
that I'm looking to deliver here.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_03: It's not about the exact word.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_03: It's about, can I connect the message to the audience?
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: And I might use different words this time than next time.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_03: But as long as that message lands, it doesn't matter.
1:03:09
Is there anything that I should have asked you about that I
1:03:15
haven't asked so far?
1:03:17
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a good one.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_03: No, I don't think so.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_03: Not specifically having to do with pitching.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_03: And I think people hopefully have gotten some tips from my answers.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_03: You know, not everything.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: It's hard to give everything A to Z on a one hour podcast.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_03: But hopefully people... Well, I mean, I think if there's...
1:03:49
Maybe if there's one more thing that I would like people to
1:03:51
take away from this is
1:03:53
to remember that pitching isn't just about entrepreneurs trying
1:03:57
to get investments.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_03: Pitching really is a multifaceted communications tool.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_03: You can use it to pitch to investors for sure.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
1:04:08
But you use it to get sales,
1:04:09
you use it to get customers,
1:04:10
you use it to get partners.
1:04:12
You can use a pitch structure to make sure that you get the
1:04:14
right employee.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_03: If you're starting a company and you want a co-founder,
1:04:20
SPEAKER_03: you should feel comfortable with pitching.
1:04:21
And then I would even dare to say that when you get the
1:04:23
opportunity to maybe speak
1:04:25
SPEAKER_03: on a stage,
1:04:26
you can incorporate some of your messaging from your pitches
1:04:29
into that to get
1:04:29
SPEAKER_03: people more on board with what it is you're doing.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_03: probably more important why you're doing what you're doing.
1:04:36
So when you hear the word pitch,
1:04:39
don't write it off thinking,
1:04:41
well,
1:04:41
I'm not seeking investment.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_03: I don't need to learn how to pitch.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_03: Again, some of the people that I train, they're not entrepreneurs.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_03: They're not even marketing people.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_03: They're engineers.
1:04:51
And they have a responsibility to be able to communicate the
1:04:54
projects that they're
1:04:55
SPEAKER_03: working on to make sure that they continue to get the resources,
1:04:58
SPEAKER_03: that they continue to exist,
1:05:00
SPEAKER_03: right?
1:05:03
And this is probably a skill that when they were going to
1:05:05
school and getting their
1:05:06
SPEAKER_03: engineering degree,
1:05:08
SPEAKER_03: they probably never thought they would need to learn how to pitch.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_03: But boy,
1:05:11
SPEAKER_03: when we're done and they realize how important it is,
1:05:14
SPEAKER_03: but also probably even more important that they can do it,
1:05:18
SPEAKER_03: what a change it is.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_03: So be open about the word pitch.
1:05:23
Be open to how much learning how to pitch can help you in all
1:05:28
aspects of your
1:05:28
SPEAKER_03: career,
1:05:28
SPEAKER_03: whether you're an entrepreneur or not.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_00: Neil,
1:05:35
SPEAKER_00: if somebody is listening right now and they have an idea,
1:05:37
SPEAKER_00: they have a presentation coming up,
1:05:40
SPEAKER_00: they're building a product and so forth,
1:05:43
SPEAKER_00: what one step can they take today or tomorrow
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: to improve or get better at pitching?
1:05:52
SPEAKER_03: Am I allowed to say that they should reach out to me to get coaching?
1:05:55
SPEAKER_03: Is that an acceptable answer?
1:05:56
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_03: So reach out to me to get coaching.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_03: But if not, then what I would say is if you have a pitch already,
1:06:07
Look at the pitch and make sure that the pitch answers the two
1:06:12
questions that I
1:06:13
SPEAKER_03: mentioned earlier,
1:06:14
SPEAKER_03: which is,
1:06:15
do you know who you're speaking to and do you know what the
1:06:18
goal of the pitch is?
1:06:19
SPEAKER_03: And if not, you don't have to totally redo it.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_03: Again, not a fan of unnecessary work, okay?
1:06:25
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to totally redo it,
1:06:26
SPEAKER_03: but you do have to fix the message,
1:06:29
SPEAKER_03: fix the content,
1:06:29
SPEAKER_03: fix the structure to ensure that you connect with the people
1:06:33
SPEAKER_03: who you are looking to get the yes from.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be everyone, right?
1:06:38
SPEAKER_03: And that the pitch...
1:06:41
The yes that you're looking to get it from is the goal that
1:06:44
you're looking to achieve.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_03: An elevator pitch has one goal, and it's not to sell.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_03: An elevator pitch is to create curiosity so that we can then meet,
1:06:53
SPEAKER_03: so that then I can talk to you more,
1:06:55
SPEAKER_03: so that then I can sell.
1:06:58
Knowing that goal before you pitch,
1:07:00
before you create your pitch,
1:07:01
is super important.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_03: Those two things, if you haven't done that yet,
1:07:05
then that would be the first thing and probably not only the
1:07:09
easiest thing,
1:07:09
but the most effective thing that you could do to make your
1:07:12
pitch more effective.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_03: And then step two would be practice, right?
1:07:17
SPEAKER_03: Practice by yourself, practice recording yourself.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_03: That's a great step.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_03: The thing is,
1:07:21
SPEAKER_03: is that if you only rely on that,
1:07:23
SPEAKER_03: you're not getting,
1:07:24
SPEAKER_03: you don't have the opportunity of getting that constructive feedback.
1:07:27
So if you want to do it yourself and if you want to record
1:07:29
yourself till you get
1:07:30
comfortable enough before you pitch in front of people to get
1:07:33
that constructive
1:07:33
SPEAKER_03: feedback,
1:07:34
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_03: Your process is your process.
1:07:38
And there's really no right or wrong as long as you're doing
1:07:41
it,
1:07:41
as long as you're practicing.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_03: But at some point,
1:07:44
you've got to get in front of people who can give you that
1:07:47
constructive feedback if
1:07:48
SPEAKER_03: you want to become better.
1:07:53
Be specific,
1:07:55
be clear with your message and who you're talking to and
1:08:01
practice and practice.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't be lazy.
1:08:05
yeah i mean i don't think being especially if we talk about
1:08:08
being an entrepreneur
1:08:08
being an entrepreneur is not for not for the lazy for sure um
1:08:13
but anyone who's
1:08:14
interested in in pitching it's because they're looking to
1:08:16
advance something you
1:08:18
know again whether it's an idea or a project or their or their
1:08:20
company or even
1:08:21
themselves um and and no you can't be lazy when you're doing
1:08:25
that you got to take
1:08:25
responsibility and sometimes you got to do the tough thing you
1:08:28
got to look yourself
1:08:29
in the mirror and say what can i do differently and it's not
1:08:32
about necessarily what
1:08:33
SPEAKER_03: you're doing wrong
1:08:35
SPEAKER_03: It's just what can I do differently?
1:08:37
SPEAKER_03: So again, it's not about right or wrong.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_03: So don't look at yourself in the mirror and go, oh, you were wrong.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_03: No, you did your A-B testing, you delivered A. A didn't work.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_03: Now you switch to B.
1:08:48
You're testing the waters in front of real people until you
1:08:52
land on a message that
1:08:53
SPEAKER_03: resonates.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_00: Neil,
1:08:56
if somebody is listening right now and they would like to reach
1:08:58
out to you,
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: I know you have a website.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me what that is?
1:09:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's pitchphd, you know, like the doctorate degree, dot com.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_03: And my email address is neil at pitchphd.com.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_03: And it's spelled N-E-A-L.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_03: My parents had a nice sense of humor,
1:09:16
SPEAKER_03: decided instead of spelling it N-E-I-L,
1:09:19
SPEAKER_03: like 99% of the Neils in the world,
1:09:21
SPEAKER_03: they spelled it N-E-A-L.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_03: But it's neil at pitchphd.com.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_03: And if you're interested in maybe the digital course, you can check out.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_03: It's pitchninja, all one word, dot online.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: And we'll provide all the links in the show notes, Neil.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_00: Great.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: All right, Neil, one final question that I ask all of my guests.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_00: And that question is,
1:09:44
SPEAKER_00: if you could only give us one advice,
1:09:47
SPEAKER_00: only one advice of all the advice that you have,
1:09:51
SPEAKER_00: your wonderful experience,
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: and so forth,
1:09:54
SPEAKER_00: only one advice for a better,
1:09:56
SPEAKER_00: more meaningful life,
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: what would it be?
1:10:01
SPEAKER_03: You know,
1:10:01
SPEAKER_03: when I read this question,
1:10:02
SPEAKER_03: I kind of dreaded being asked it because I'm am I giving worldly
1:10:11
SPEAKER_03: broad advice or am I talking more about the pitching?
1:10:14
I'll tell you what,
1:10:15
I'll spare the audience my worldly grandfatherly advice.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm not a grandfather.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_03: I'll say fatherly advice.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_03: I do have three kids.
1:10:24
I'll skip that and I'll stick a little bit more to the subject
1:10:27
of pitching.
1:10:31
Part of the process is that you're going to get a lot of no's
1:10:34
when you pick.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_03: However, at some point, you're also gonna start to get yeses.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_03: And this is especially important,
1:10:41
SPEAKER_03: let's say,
1:10:41
SPEAKER_03: if you're looking for a co-founder,
1:10:43
SPEAKER_03: an employee,
1:10:43
SPEAKER_03: a partner,
1:10:44
SPEAKER_03: an investor.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_03: Don't get so excited at the first yes that you make a big mistake.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_03: I've seen too many startups,
1:10:54
SPEAKER_03: small companies,
1:10:56
get derailed by choosing the wrong partner because it was the
1:11:00
first one to come
1:11:00
SPEAKER_03: along and say yes to them.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_03: Of course,
1:11:04
SPEAKER_03: I felt really,
1:11:05
SPEAKER_03: really bad for the startups,
1:11:07
SPEAKER_03: but it's not good for the person they said yes to either.
1:11:13
If you're worried about saying no to the first yes you got
1:11:17
because you think nobody
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: else is going to come along,
1:11:20
SPEAKER_03: my advice to you would be somebody else will come along.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_03: Obviously,
1:11:30
SPEAKER_03: I can never say there's always a second chance or a third or a fourth,
1:11:35
SPEAKER_03: but I can say almost always.
1:11:37
Those who have said no,
1:11:39
there's always been other doors that have been open to them.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_03: So in this position of pitching,
1:11:45
SPEAKER_03: You're going to get no's when you start getting those yes's.
1:11:49
Look,
1:11:49
if it's a customer and they want to give you money for your
1:11:51
service,
1:11:52
SPEAKER_03: The thing that you might want to be thinking about is,
1:11:54
SPEAKER_03: can I serve this customer properly,
1:11:56
SPEAKER_03: right?
1:11:57
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they're too big for where you are at this particular time.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_03: So,
1:12:02
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:12:04
SPEAKER_03: be cautious,
1:12:05
SPEAKER_03: be brave,
1:12:07
SPEAKER_03: be brave enough to say no and hold out for the right opportunity.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_03: Because if you hop on the first yes,
1:12:14
SPEAKER_03: and it turned out to be the wrong opportunity,
1:12:17
SPEAKER_03: again,
1:12:18
SPEAKER_03: I've seen,
1:12:18
SPEAKER_03: unfortunately,
1:12:19
SPEAKER_03: I've seen companies,
1:12:19
SPEAKER_03: startups get destroyed from that.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_00: Because they said yes too quickly.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
1:12:27
SPEAKER_03: so especially on the investor side,
1:12:30
SPEAKER_03: investors do something called due diligence,
1:12:33
SPEAKER_03: which is they inspect everything having to do with the startups.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_03: But the startup doesn't do the due diligence on the investor.
1:12:44
They don't investigate the investor enough to understand if
1:12:46
this is going to be the
1:12:47
SPEAKER_03: right partner for them or not.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_03: Because when an investor comes in,
1:12:53
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you,
1:12:54
SPEAKER_03: investor deals are harder to get out of than a marriage.
1:13:00
SPEAKER_03: And we all know that about 50% of all marriages end in divorce.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_03: And even if it's not that drastic,
1:13:09
SPEAKER_03: you want somebody,
1:13:12
SPEAKER_03: again,
1:13:12
SPEAKER_03: if we're talking specifically about investors,
1:13:14
SPEAKER_03: you want somebody who's going to be a positive asset to your company.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_03: For you, of course, but also for them.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_03: So there are different statistics,
1:13:26
but it's somewhere between five and eight out of 10 investments
1:13:31
fail and never get
1:13:32
SPEAKER_03: a return.
1:13:33
And it's one of the reasons why when investors are so picky and
1:13:37
they want to make
1:13:38
SPEAKER_03: sure that when they say yes to something,
1:13:40
SPEAKER_03: they have the opportunity to make a large return.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot of pressure and there's a lot of stress on that.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_03: So when they say yes to you,
1:13:48
SPEAKER_03: it's probably because they do see something in you,
1:13:50
but if you don't see something in them positive that they can
1:13:54
add to your company,
1:13:56
SPEAKER_03: then being able to make enough money together.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_03: Isn't enough of a reason because chances are,
1:14:01
SPEAKER_03: if you don't work well together,
1:14:03
SPEAKER_03: neither of you are going to make money on the deal.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_00: That's great advice.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_03: I hope nobody ever has to.
1:14:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, I was going to say I hope nobody ever has to.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_03: No,
1:14:13
SPEAKER_03: I hope nobody ever lands in the situation that that,
1:14:16
SPEAKER_03: like I said,
1:14:17
SPEAKER_03: I have seen happen not super often,
1:14:20
but enough to to be able to give this advice confidently that
1:14:28
wait until the right
1:14:29
SPEAKER_03: yes comes along.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_00: Wait until the right yes comes along.
1:14:34
SPEAKER_00: Neil, thank you so much, my friend.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your time.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_00: What I take with me today is use the structure,
1:14:43
SPEAKER_00: N-A-B-C,
1:14:46
SPEAKER_00: the need,
1:14:47
SPEAKER_00: the approach,
1:14:48
SPEAKER_00: the benefit,
1:14:49
SPEAKER_00: and the competition.
1:14:52
SPEAKER_00: It was great having you back.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_03: It's great to be here.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_03: I enjoyed it.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_03: I hope your listeners got some solid advice from it for sure.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they did, Neil.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Speaking of Meaning.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_00: If today's episode helped you see communication in a new way,
1:15:13
SPEAKER_00: share it with someone you care about,
1:15:14
SPEAKER_00: a friend,
1:15:15
SPEAKER_00: a partner or a colleague who wants to grow.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm Ibrahim.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, better communication, greater impact.