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How marketing and finance can work better together (with Elaine Benfield) · The Diary of a CFO

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Welcome back to the Diary of the CFO. Today I'm
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delighted to have with me Elaine Benfield. She's
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a seasoned software leader with over 20 years
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of expertise in marketing. She is a founder of
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Her Stories That Come, a podcast and community
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focused on sharing the inspiring stories of remarkable
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women. Through her work, Elaine aims to craft
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narratives that empower and motivate others.
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Based in Atlanta, Georgia like me, she actively
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participates in Pride and Human Rights Campaign
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initiatives and regularly volunteers with dog
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charities. In her spare time, Elaine enjoys traveling
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with family and friends. Welcome Elaine. Thank
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you so much for having me. What an honor. Thank
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you so much. You're my very first guest and it's
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so good to have you on. So happy to be here.
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especially as a marketing leader, because one
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of the things I realized in my accounting career,
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sales and marketing team were always a team where
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we're just, uh, it wasn't always working. So
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can you tell me, tell us about your experience
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working with finance teams? Yeah, you know, it's
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interesting. I just always looked at it. I have
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a consumer economics background, I have a bachelor
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of science. I never saw the division quite as
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much as other marketers to some degree. because
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I think economics and finance, and especially
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for my target audience, what I've really was,
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my education was really consumers. I really felt
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that there has to be a bridge between all the
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different divisions. I think a lot of marketers
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don't. I don't think a lot of finance people
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do. Everyone feels, you know, the CFO and the
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finance team is like holding all the money, but
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then the marketers have metrics that the CFOs
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don't understand and the finance team. So I very
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often worked, and especially I have a background
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also in procurement. Procurement, you have to
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bridge between the finance division and then
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also the marketers. So somehow I always just
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broke down the silos. And when I've had these
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conversations, I never understood why some companies
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don't target CFOs as being part of the buying
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decision. And you hear a lot of software companies,
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and especially B2B, they target the CIOs and
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they target you know, others, but they most often
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do not target the CFO. And I'm like, but they're
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the ones where the money comes from. They need
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to be buying decision. So I kind of different,
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a little bit of a different perspective potentially
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than I think some other marketers. Yes. And I
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like what you said, because sometimes when a
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software comes, if it's not like a CFO and accounting
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based software that'll be used by us, they usually
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just pass. And then we find it after the fact.
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And I like the point you made about bridging.
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So what are some actual things you did to bridge
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with not just financing, but also other departments
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in your marketing initiatives? I always found
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that to me, I want to know what everyone's KPIs
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are. I am very driven on what are the metrics?
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What are we running toward? I always had a relationship
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like great example of I've helped so many companies
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over the years get bought and acquired, but who's
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the first person I would talk to? or maybe the
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second person, it'd be the president and then
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the CFO. What are you trying to do? Are we trying
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to sell a company for X, Y, and Z fold? What
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are we trying to do? Without the knowledge and
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insight of kind of that strategy, it was always
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hard for me, especially earlier in my career,
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to know what are my marketing KPIs? What am I
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going after? And to me, I'll say marketing, but
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in my mind, it also revolves around communications
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and analyst relations and influencer marketing.
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To me, it's the whole marketing kind of channel
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and without knowing where the CFO is running
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and how healthy is the company? What are you
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looking for? What are you trying to drive for?
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Because then you align your marketing to what
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the business health is driving. I just really
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feel that that's just has to be aligned. It's
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you're trying to understand each other and that's
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just critical for success of both divisions really.
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Wow, you're like the marketing leader of people's
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dreams right now Yes, because a lot don't understand
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the impact of What you just said I'm trying to
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be but what should I look into? Can you please
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tell us more about how was it for you being in
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marketing? Driving really the force between behind.
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Okay, we're gonna get but this is this is how
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we're gonna tell the story This is how it's going
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to happen. How is it going to align with finances?
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So it's interesting, I always sat down, I had
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a seat at the table, I always say. Over the years,
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it's shifted being at, I've in the past been
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at a large software company where my seat kind
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of got a little more farther away from the table.
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But for many years, it was sitting down with
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the C -level executives and going, okay, well,
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what are we running toward? What do we need to
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have? And having honestly the brand narrative
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of what's the company trying to do? What is it
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from the CEO's vision and then aligns to the
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CFO, the chief marketing officer and everyone
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trying to figure out what those programs are?
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Majority of time companies that are trying to
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get acquired do not have the amplification, the
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awareness. So that's where I kind of joke my
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superpowers to come in and say, okay, if you're
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running toward this to two to five year, well,
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let's make sure you're getting the visibility
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of who your target acquirer is. You know, what
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are we trying to do? How are we going to increase
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revenue? to meet these numbers to get the highest
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value you can. And a lot of it's kind of that
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relationship of it's really a strategic plan,
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very often an exit plan. Like do you want to
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be acquired to be part of a big company? Do you
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want to be bought for just the technology and
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less the people and staff? There's so many different
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combinations. I also for many years helped companies
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go IPO. Let's get the market to understand what
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our value is. And what do we want to bring to
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the market? You know, some companies went to
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NASDAQ and some stayed private, but it was to
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get that round of funding. And it's to have that
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open dialogue between all these divisions so
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that everyone knows their part. But how do you
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also integrate and work together? Because that's
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critical to all these divisions cannot be siloed.
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You will not be successful. And I know larger
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companies have teams, but in the end, you need
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to make sure it's not only the top executives,
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you need the few layers below. because they're
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the ones who do a lot of the work in the end.
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Yes. And what you brought up is great because
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something that I feel like we lacking within
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finance and accounting is that storytelling piece.
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How do you tell the story? We're good. We have
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the data. We have the numbers. We can show trends
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and all that stuff. But how do we craft narratives
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and stories that are compelling with that data?
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Can you tell us a bit, some tips to help to help
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us out? I think it's the most critical part of
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any organization is what are you trying to do?
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What's that narrative? To me, I always joke that
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I'm a storyteller's storyteller because I listen
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to executives talk and I'm like, wait, wait,
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wait. What you're trying to say is this. Your
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customer isn't buying a product. They're buying
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something to help their business. To me, I always
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look at it as, you know, yeah, there's products,
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they're so gorky and they can be this, but what's
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the business benefit? And then that brings down
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to the human connection of Oh, well, this software
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is helping do this or this product or that. And
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that, the storytelling piece tied to brand. And
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once you get a good story, you can do the amplification
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around it. You can do the communication around
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it. You can help tell your narrative, help increase
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your brand awareness. But fundamentally without
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the storytelling, because you know, you and I
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both know and everyone listening, there's so
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many brands out there that don't have a good
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story that you're like, well, what exactly do
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they do? or sometimes their messaging keeps changing.
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You're like, well, didn't they do that? And now
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they do this. And I'm actually referring to B2B
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more than, you know, Patagonia is Patagonia.
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You know what they sell. But from the B2B side,
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it's the market shifts. People right now, I think
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storytelling is challenging with AI. Everyone's
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putting AI in their stories and what are the
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customers trying to buy? And I think there is
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confusion in the market kind of from that storytelling
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of everyone's saying AI. Well, really. Does everyone
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really have it and what are the capabilities
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within it? Yes, I think that AI is like bacon
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or salt on different things. I love bacon. You
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know it. So I love that companies are being so
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bold and I love that marketers are really leveraging
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AI, but I think it's super important. So companies,
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prospects and customers know, well, what are
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the capabilities? What does that really mean?
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I'm slowly starting to see those leader companies
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that are going out and have a really good narrative.
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that makes sense and it's easy to understand,
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easy to digest going, oh, you and I have talked
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about AI and finance. You can make processes
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more efficient with AI. You have more checks
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and balances. There's a lot more ways that it
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can be leveraged. Same with marketing, but knowing
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how to do that and that story behind all of it.
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Yes. Yes. Good point. Good point. And I think
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that's one of the areas where marketing and sales
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and marketing can come in and help finance and
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then the budgets. Okay. Can we talk about the
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budgets? There's always the thing about, especially
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from a finance standpoint, marketing spending
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too much money by default. You guys do things
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and we cannot calculate the ROI or do not understand
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the ROI. What do you think marketing leaders
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can do or finance leaders can do to work better
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together on those type of things? I think it's
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collaboration. Like I always felt in years ago,
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I worked for a division of the company I worked
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for previously and a smaller company, but I used
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to sit down with the CFO and go, okay, well,
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these are our metrics. And then they would say,
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well, here's what our metrics are. and you might
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crack me on this, my real interpretation was
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CFOs are more, I don't want to say they're more
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short -term. Marketing sometimes takes longer.
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With new marketing, you're not going to get results
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in 30 days very often. It could be nine months,
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it could be a year to see the real uptick of
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the marketing programs. Very often, I've worked
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with CFOs in the past and other financial levels,
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and they'd be like, well, where are the results?
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Where are the results? Where's the KPI? What's
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the growth? And it's like, Well, this is a longer
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project. This is the lead time you need to get
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the results. What I always liked was coming up
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with what are the metrics that are important
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to finance? What are the metrics that are important
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to marketing? And how do you come together? What
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are the APIs that blend? Having that sitting
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in a planning meeting right now, I think a lot
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of companies, when you're getting in fall, those
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companies that are in the calendar fiscal year
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are in planning mode. maybe almost at the end
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of planning mode to some degree, they're already
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knowing what they're doing in 2025. You have
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to have these divisions go, I won't be mad knowing
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it's going to take 12 months for you to have
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marketing KPIs, but this is why I need your help
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on to reach my numbers, which a CFO or someone
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in finance is really like every quarter, we need
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to know how we're doing every month, every week,
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you know, and at this pipeline. And so I think
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coming together to sit down and be part of both
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of your planning processes really helps. Because
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sometimes there's confusion in what KPIs are.
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That's critical to me. I think that's always
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been the most success I've seen is working together.
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Yes, work for real. And I realized too on the
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finance, if we don't involve marketing and sales
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before we get to budget season. then we get into
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those bottlenecks, right? Because we're like,
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you're trying to achieve this and it feels like
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it's a war that it's us versus you, finance versus
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the rest of the world. And we're trying to cut
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things and go, yes, we did it. Or what are these
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guys doing? You would agree that I've worked
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for a bunch of companies and a bunch of divisions
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that they're like, they don't give your budget
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to May or June of a calendar year. And you're
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like, so then you just lost momentum from the
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end of the year, which then becomes very budget
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-driven and you're like, oh, you have all this
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extra money. I've always found it fascinating
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that my job is to make sure I'm laser focused
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with budget. I don't want to be over and I don't
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want to be under because that means I'm doing
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my planning correctly and I'm aligned with what
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the CFO told me to do or the finance division.
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I can't handle when a company is like, oh really
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from January to May. we don't know. And it's
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like, you'll need a little bit of budget that
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carried over from last year. And it's like, well,
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what are you supposed to do? And then all of
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a sudden it's like, you're not running fast enough,
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but it's like, we just had a stopgap. That is
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a challenge. Yeah, and that's a good feedback
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to me and to us here in finance and accounting
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because sometimes we go through it, but we don't
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realize that once the exercise is done, we're
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like, oh, we're done with the budget and we communicate,
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but it doesn't always get down to the people
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using the budget. So I think that's something
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we definitely need to improve. A thousand percent.
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And then on the flip side, I think here's another
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flip for you. You start setting expectations
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that July, you know, whatever that is, just making
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it up. July and August start off to budget, but
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it's locked in. Here's the timeline. I think
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over the years, I've seen teams do this really
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well here. Here's our original budget request.
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Here's the dates. Here's the milestones. And
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then it has to be locked in by this date. And
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part of the challenge is always, you also need
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to know what the CEO slash the branding, what
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does the company want you to run toward? Sometimes
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it's really hard because you're like, I'm fighting
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for budget, but I don't know what I'm focusing
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on. And it's like, just grab the money so you
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can hold it. So then you can come up with what
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the programs are. But I also think when a leader
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in finance can say, Hey, here's our timeline
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and marketers can drive to it saying, I'm not
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a hundred percent sure in messaging, but I know
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I want to do X, Y, and Z. And that really does
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help the collaboration because then we'll know,
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Oh, we need to know this by the state to start
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driving the programs. And you bring up, again,
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another good point, which is the timeliness of
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how we and the timelines we have for the budget,
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right? We often start mid -year and we're planning
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for something. By the time we get to December
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and the budget is issued, a lot of things changed.
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a lot of things change, especially when we remember
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how things were in COVID. We all had plans. And
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then in March is like, okay, forget the plans.
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And so for you as a marketing leader, how do
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you think marketing leaders can better align
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themselves with finance and vice versa, because
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you, with your background, a lot of things that
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you're saying, how you track your KPI, how you
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collaborate, I do not take it for granted, right?
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So how do you think we can do better there? I
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always overshare. you know me, I love to overshare
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and be like, if I'm going to do a marketing program,
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this is how long I need to the minute you give
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me budget to actually do an execution to actually
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track the metrics. Very often, let's just be
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honest, the procurement process in some companies
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is a nightmare. It could take months to get someone
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paid to get the budget, get the CFO to sign off.
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And you're like, I just lost that time. Here's
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how long like you want me to execute this program
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and it's just minimum three months Don't try
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to give me two months You give me the money and
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then sometimes money is taken if you don't spend
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it by the time this you know The clock strikes
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very often it would be pulled to another new
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project And so being very honest and transparent
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about hey, here's long how long it takes to do
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something CFO in the finance department goes.
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Oh I get it getting all the paperwork all legal
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all the it's a lot behind the scenes that I think
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you know just because you know someone says oh
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here's your budget it's like oh well then you
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have to do all the you know getting through all
16:07
the contracts getting through a lot of work just
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to get a program up and running I think that
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the transparency on both sides like hey this
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is what it is so you know and then if they're
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honestly on the flip side if you're having a
16:22
hard quarter I very much respect someone coming
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to me saying, you know, we don't have enough
16:28
money. What can you cut to help us? I can be
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nimble and go, okay, well, let's not do this.
16:34
Let's do this. The flip side, I very often, I
16:38
always laugh. My Q4 people loved me in the market
16:41
because I'd be like, I got $10 ,000. Want to
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do a project? I could do that all day long. I
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had one year like insane amount and they're like,
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we didn't realize we underspent quickly. And
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I came up with great programs and basically locked
16:57
them in, started them, but then the deliverable
16:59
would be like you want. And it was legal. But
17:02
it was the, hey, we were able to start the projects
17:05
and at least, you know, to use that money. So
17:08
both looks like, hey, when finance is struggling,
17:11
be honest with that. You know, it's not like
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I'm going to tell anyone. It's not, it's very
17:16
need to know basis. Cause I, a lot of this stuff's
17:19
confidential, especially if you're a company.
17:21
but it can help someone in marketing who is strategic
17:24
that can go, oh, you're about to get money, then
17:26
let me come up with some stuff to help use the
17:29
funds before you lose it. And then if you're
17:32
having a challenge, how do you help us curve?
17:35
Cause most times we're cost cutting. Like what
17:37
program isn't worth it? What will take too long?
17:40
You know, and then the result is really higher
17:43
market value. You're trying to earn more money
17:45
for the company and you're trying to get more
17:47
brand awareness and customer. So it's, they're
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all. very closely aligned. Yes. And you brought
17:53
up something too, again, that reminds you of
17:56
my days of when I was heavy into budgeting and
17:59
I was assigned to the sales and marketing team
18:02
divisions, working closely with them. And it
18:04
will always strike me that when they're under
18:07
spend, they feel like they have to rush to spend.
18:08
And I'm like, Well, if you didn't spend it, maybe
18:11
you don't really need it. So we should cut. And
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they're like, no, I was afraid of spending it.
18:15
Now you're telling me so I can spend. No, and
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I think it's what I said. Like I rather be spot
18:21
on to the scent. That's the way that I, you know,
18:25
was trained in my, in just, you know, kind of
18:27
my background that it was like, don't go over,
18:29
don't go under, just prove that everything you're
18:31
doing is valid. And then if you're trying to
18:34
fight for the next year, you fight why it exponentially
18:37
needs to increase because you have the KPIs to
18:40
show the value. That's kind of my mindset. I
18:42
don't think everyone thinks that way, but it
18:45
helps finance know she's always going to hit
18:47
her number. Not going to be coming and going
18:50
because you know, the worst thing to do is be
18:51
like, excuse me, I need another I over spent.
18:54
And then you're like, and so many teams, I've
18:57
worked with a lot of marketers that couldn't
18:58
keep a budget. And I just need it's important
19:01
for the health of the business. Again, the marketing
19:05
leader of the dreams, because like you said,
19:07
a lot of marketing teams struggle to maintain
19:10
their budget and things like that. What do you
19:13
think, from a finance standpoint, we can do as
19:15
a team to help marketing teams get better with
19:18
tracking their budget? Because I feel like there
19:20
is a disconnect sometimes on how things work.
19:23
What have you experienced? Because I know you're
19:26
on another level, but... No, I think it's really
19:30
important to... I am a flow chart person. I think
19:33
you know this about me. I've done more of like,
19:37
I've actually walked through with finance divisions
19:40
going, do you know what a marketing process is
19:42
to do a campaign or a program? I've sat down
19:44
to go, it starts here and it goes, and then you
19:47
go through all the different levels. I remember
19:51
sitting with someone in procurement who said,
19:54
oh my God, no one ever explained it to me. You're
19:57
in charge of getting my contracts done. for procurement
20:00
to get the, you're one of the most critical people.
20:03
And I actually, I adore this person. I'm still
20:05
friends with her. And I'm like, help me for 10
20:08
years. But you know, it happened because I sat
20:11
down and said, this is what it is. Like, let
20:13
me negotiate. A lot of companies have, you know,
20:16
procurement divisions that help negotiate. I
20:18
love negotiating. Sometimes I can't, like I joke,
20:21
like I can't be beat. Go ahead, procurement,
20:23
but I know what I'm asking for. I know the deliverables.
20:26
But having that close relationship to be like,
20:30
hey, this is the process. And you know, on the
20:32
flip side, same with finance. Fascinating with
20:34
what's the process with finance? How do you get
20:37
the budget? How do you know? How do you forecast?
20:40
Once again, it's collaboration. All of business
20:43
is collaboration, but these two are some of the
20:45
most important divisions that need to work together.
20:48
I really love the idea of a flow chart. I mean,
20:51
I'm a picture person, so it always help, right?
20:54
To see how you move from point A to point Z and
20:58
all the steps in between. Because I think that's
21:00
sometimes what we missed and very close to what
21:02
you said at the beginning, which is we don't
21:05
realize how long some of that stuff take. And
21:08
if we too short -term focus, we may miss out
21:11
when it comes to the business in general. And
21:14
I also think... having that visibility and being
21:17
so transparent with a flow chart, you also go
21:20
through, I very often someone would say, Hey,
21:23
do you ever think of doing this step? Well, if
21:25
you do that, you remove three. So to me, I'm
21:28
like, Ooh, I'm going to learn. You and I've had
21:30
this conversation before of, you know, the payment
21:32
process can be really hard for small vendors.
21:35
We work at the big software company, very hard,
21:38
you know, sometimes it's not 30, sometimes it's
21:40
not 45. These are small one -offs. and small
21:44
independent companies, we changed our entire
21:46
payment process. We had to because it wasn't
21:49
fair, in our opinion, it wasn't fair. It took
21:52
45, 60 days. You're counting on the money that
21:56
we profit you. So we ended up creating a whole
21:59
new process for net eight. And that's where,
22:02
as you know, sometimes it works, sometimes it
22:03
doesn't. But to me, that was super important
22:06
that I'm valuing my external partners. That was...
22:11
something we did work on with multiple divisions
22:14
going, how do we get contracts involved? How
22:16
do we get procurement? How do we get finance?
22:19
We had to change everything. I wasn't responsible
22:22
for it. I helped identify some of the challenges.
22:25
I have a fabulous team member who was like, nope,
22:28
this is the way it needs to be. I helped them
22:30
in and simplify it a little, because it shouldn't
22:32
be 70 steps, but it's how do we make it better
22:34
for everyone? And the experience letter. Yes,
22:38
and I'm glad you thought about the external stakeholders,
22:41
right? Because sometimes we're so focused on
22:43
what's going on inside the organization and we
22:46
tend to forget that a lot of our business is
22:49
with people outside the organization and we should
22:52
make sure that the policies, what we're making
22:54
work for us here has to work for them as well.
22:58
You mentioned vendors, how you make life easier
23:02
for vendors. In the context of marketing and
23:05
sales and marketing of vendors in general, What
23:07
are the benefits of having great relationships
23:10
with your vendors, your critical ones? I mean,
23:13
you can tell by my voice and just who I am. Relationships
23:16
are everything. As in a business, you're only
23:20
as good as the people that support you, recommend
23:23
you, and amplify you. And to me, all those vendor
23:28
relationships, whether it's a customer, a prospect,
23:30
a partner, an influencer, an analyst, these are
23:33
people that are helping tell your story. and
23:36
having a good positive relationship with them
23:38
and giving them a good experience literally can
23:41
change their perception of a company. And you
23:43
know, all of us have had one person that then
23:46
you go, that company is not that good in this.
23:49
To me, it's one of the most important things
23:51
to change someone's perception after a negative
23:54
experience is super hard. But it's easy just
23:57
for someone to walk away and go, wow, you gave
23:59
me a great experience. It was a great event.
24:01
You did white glove treatment. You did, you know,
24:04
high touch. That is super important. And I feel
24:07
that that's just all that. The vendors to me
24:10
are just as important. They're my stakeholders.
24:12
But I also look at the people in procurement
24:15
are my stakeholders. I look at everyone as that's
24:18
just part of the relationship to have a good
24:20
kind of healthy, positive business experience.
24:24
That's great. This is great. This is like how
24:26
business partnering should be, right? Reminding
24:29
that we all in this together. All in this together
24:33
and it's... It also makes work, I joke that,
24:36
like we've joked about this before, I'm at the
24:38
top of my game. I feel that all these years is
24:41
the culmination of the relationships and how
24:43
do I make, you know, business fun and work fun
24:47
and just a good experience across the board because
24:50
we all have to do this. It's not like, you know,
24:53
great people have to, and it's finding that the
24:55
relationship piece is just having that and having
24:57
good experience is just, you know, everything
25:00
and it helps you in the end. I don't look at
25:03
it as often as, oh, it's helping the brand and
25:05
it's not authentic, but it's the authentic, once
25:08
again, part of storytelling and having that good
25:10
experience. Awesome. Awesome. So with, as you
25:14
said, you are the top of your game right now.
25:16
Now you have a lot, a lot of good project coming
25:18
up. So from your experience now, as you have
25:21
now, as you look at the bigger picture, what
25:24
are some trends of shift that you think a lot
25:26
of leaders are not paying enough attention to?
25:29
I think we're underestimating, I think you've
25:32
probably seen this too, analytics. Data and analytics
25:36
is the number one market shift to my humble opinion
25:41
and research I'm reading is for marketing and
25:44
for finance and all divisions. Years ago, you
25:47
couldn't track the customer journey, you really
25:50
struggled knowing how successful your programs
25:52
were, KPIs were hard to measure. I would say
25:55
the last three, four years, maybe a little longer,
25:58
you really can laser focus how successful you
26:01
are. And I think across all of business, but
26:04
I think we can't just spread it. You have, you're
26:07
only as smart as the data is providing for you
26:09
for any division, right? And feel that that's
26:13
where I think analytics tied to AI is critical.
26:17
That is the way the market's going. You have
26:20
to know what, how much is, you know, of course,
26:22
how much is the customer retention? How is it,
26:24
you know, all the different KPIs you would have
26:27
for marketing. it is critical that you can get
26:30
to that level of granularity and customer experience
26:32
and personalization. That's what analytics and
26:35
data will do. And AI is going to make it exponentially
26:38
faster. So that's where I really think, don't
26:41
underestimate the power of knowledge and data
26:44
that can analyze that for you and talk through,
26:48
hey, we're seeing this uptake here and this is
26:52
not doing well, this is doing well. And I think
26:53
that's super important. Yes. And I think too,
26:57
in finance, we having the same thing because
26:59
people come to us and saying, you guys are tracking
27:01
all the stuff. You should be helping us making
27:03
those decisions. And then we realize, uh, either
27:06
we're not really tracking it or we don't have
27:08
the right systems to track it. So can you speak
27:13
a little more about, okay, you have bad data,
27:15
not the right, the right data available to you.
27:18
Like as a, as a business leader, not just marketing
27:21
or finance, how do you handle this type of situation?
27:24
I think it's really hard. I think there's a lot
27:26
of vendors out there. I don't want to mention
27:28
or throw anyone into the bus. I think some vendors
27:29
are really hard to work with. I think there's
27:31
a lot of vendors that are providing great tools
27:35
to help with analytics. There's a lot of companies
27:38
out there. And I think some of the challenges
27:41
you can have great technology. It might not be
27:44
implemented right. You may also have people that
27:46
have been trained on it. You and I both not.
27:49
I also think one of the most important roles
27:51
and I Leveraged someone at SAP was a previous
27:55
company that used to do this all the time. She
27:57
was a data analyst She was one of my closest
28:00
colleagues because she would read the data and
28:02
I would go on a phone with her after campaigns
28:04
and say hey Talk to me. Why does this number
28:06
this and that but she could interpret? You know
28:10
the all the Google analytics analytics or any
28:13
of these other tools and she was a Solidated
28:15
going. Hey, this was what worked this didn't
28:17
work. But having read the data I'm good, but
28:21
I'm not. I need someone who's an hardcore expert
28:24
on numbers. And like, what was the campaign codes
28:28
that tie to it? That to me is just having, you
28:31
know, tools that are great, but you also need
28:33
to make the data clean, cleanse data. And then
28:37
you need to make sure someone can help interpret
28:38
it, because odds are you're going to present
28:41
that data, giving them credit, but being like,
28:44
this is how we saw this project go. And those
28:47
metrics, I love charts. graphs and all that data
28:51
is so important. Don't discredit that as well.
28:54
That's a really important role. Someone who can
28:55
interpret it and speak marketing. Yes. Oh my
28:59
God. That's also a gap we see in finance is even
29:02
when we have internal IT teams, they will have
29:06
the numbers, right? But to speak marketing or
29:09
to speak finance is It's not always easy, right?
29:12
Because sometimes the kind of insight we want
29:15
from them is the kind of insight they give you
29:17
or the report is like, no, that's not really
29:19
what I wanted to do. So I feel like there we
29:23
have common pain point when it comes to analytics.
29:26
A hundred percent. And one of the things I always
29:29
did is I sat down with my colleague that was
29:33
great with analytics. I sat down and would help
29:36
her define what were the KPIs? What are the metrics
29:39
I need to see? how is it tied to a campaign?
29:42
And we used to spend hours going through just
29:46
to make sure that once she had the data that
29:48
I needed, I have to tell you, I've been in so
29:51
many meetings that what the data they got wasn't
29:54
what we wanted. And finance I'm sure says the
29:56
same thing. It's like, okay, that's a great report,
29:59
made no sense, didn't help us find out our metrics.
30:01
It's like, well, why? So I very often, that's
30:04
one of the first things I do with the program
30:06
is say, Hey, where's the analytics going? What
30:09
are the metrics you can get for me? And what
30:11
do I need? And let's meet in the middle. It seems
30:14
so simple. I can't tell you how many teams I'm
30:16
like, did you ever talk to analytics and change
30:18
the, you know, the metrics? Oh my God, you never
30:21
thought of that. And then it just, it helped.
30:25
that, you know, you see so simple, you know,
30:28
once you get all the experience, but when in
30:31
the middle, like if you don't have the right
30:33
kickoff meetings or kickoff communication where
30:36
you can say, okay, for this program, like you
30:39
said, this is what we're going to track. This
30:41
is what we're going to need so that you don't
30:43
run through and realize, oh, I didn't track this
30:47
particular metric throughout. And it can't be
30:50
redone then. We have to have the perimeters right
30:54
from the start, because if you don't, it's not
30:56
like you can go back and be like, where were
30:57
they from? What's their geography? And it's like,
31:01
you don't think of all those things in the beginning.
31:04
How do you track all of it and make it consistent?
31:06
And I'm very much the mindset that when I come
31:09
up with the metrics, I'm going to hold the metrics
31:11
that can last for a few years. Because very often,
31:16
obviously, as we know, data changes. But if you
31:18
keep those perimeters, really good from the start
31:21
parameters, then you can match every quarter,
31:24
every month, every year. That's super important
31:27
to me that I want to know in two years, how successful,
31:30
what have I done exponentially to be better or
31:33
not? Like, where am I struggling or the program
31:35
struggling? And I'm very much about consistency
31:39
and planning for that. Again, you're the market
31:41
and you're the dream because again, I guess it's
31:43
your background in technology and Oh, I'm like,
31:47
oh yes, where have you been in all my life? You
31:52
know, as I said, I joke that I'm at the top of
31:54
my game, but you know, I'm seeing, of course,
31:56
as you know, like I'm so excited about the young
31:59
talent coming up. I'm so excited. But what we
32:01
don't have is those mentors like myself. I very
32:05
often mentor to be like, Hey, do you ever think
32:07
of this? Ask me questions. I'm always like the
32:10
phone call away. but I feel bad for some of the
32:12
young talent that isn't getting this background.
32:15
I've had years of experience and years of great
32:18
mentors, great leaders that have helped me go,
32:21
oh, I do know all these things. It's a culmination
32:23
of all my years. And I do feel bad for those
32:26
who have started and they get in these roles
32:27
and it's like, no one's saying, hey, do you ever
32:29
think of this? No one's helping mentor them.
32:32
And that's a fear of mine of younger talent that
32:35
they're being thrown out. So like, oh go ahead
32:38
and you know solve the problem. It's like they
32:40
don't know where to begin And then they're to
32:42
blame when something doesn't happen, right? Yes.
32:46
Yes, very little training. I think I had a meme
32:48
I posted a meme couple years ago on on linkedin
32:51
about it How you think that you're going to get
32:53
this training and the training you get is like
32:55
this much but a lot of it too comes from people
32:58
being able to pour into you those great things
33:01
that they learn so if you had a In any a lot
33:05
of it actually piece of wisdom to the next generation
33:08
of leaders Whether is those that should mentor
33:11
people how they can go about connecting with
33:13
a younger generation or also the younger talent
33:16
coming through What are some things that I can
33:18
do to pick up on those things faster? I always
33:22
joked that I was the person that someone would
33:24
come to to be like i've got this problem I had
33:28
a manager once she said you spend too much time
33:30
answering questions for people And like why?
33:34
I'm trying to dot the line or dot the T going,
33:37
oh, so this person is trying to solve this, but
33:39
I know this person. Can that person solve it
33:41
or someone they know can solve it? I just want,
33:45
I never turn that down. I, for years, like the
33:48
go -to of like, hey, we've got this project,
33:51
who would you? And I'm like, oh, I know this
33:54
person in London. That to me is never be afraid
33:57
to reach out to someone when you don't know.
34:00
Go to someone that has the experience. Go to
34:02
someone that has the knowledge of the company.
34:05
Don't be afraid to ask. My father had a great
34:07
rule. He always said, you know, just continuously
34:10
learn, continuously help people can never be
34:13
afraid to ask a question. That's how you learn.
34:16
And I hope, you know, for me, young talent, you
34:20
know, don't be afraid to ask. You're not going
34:22
to know everything, but go to someone who's lived
34:24
lived it. And in the flip side, be the mentor.
34:28
I have so many young colleagues that are like,
34:31
you know reach out and I just say open door policy
34:34
text me a good question I still have people that
34:36
text me and are like I don't know what what to
34:38
do for this i'm like, oh what about that? And
34:41
that's I love doing that but it's also be opened,
34:44
you know, if you're a leader you have experience
34:47
Make your make yourself available to ask those
34:51
questions and sometimes I just had regular calls
34:54
with, you know, I have a lot of colleagues international
34:57
and throughout the United States. I very often
34:59
just had touch base calls. Just want to hear
35:01
how you're doing. How's your project? I'm not
35:03
involved, but what can I do just to, you know,
35:06
bounce ladies off? That to me is part of that.
35:08
Once again, circle back to the relationship piece.
35:11
Like, how can I help someone? And you know what?
35:13
They all would help me in the minute. I'd be
35:15
like, you know, hey, I have a question. Everyone
35:18
respond because I was always willing to do that
35:20
for them. Andrew, that was like, you shouldn't
35:23
do that. I'm like, that's not the way I want
35:25
to do business. But it is, it's both sides helping
35:28
each other. It is. It's absolutely both. And
35:31
that's what I'm trying to do through this podcast,
35:33
Sue, is allowing people to hear from different
35:36
perspectives and grow because we don't always
35:38
have the formal training. We don't always have
35:41
the mentors. Things being so digital is hard
35:44
to connect. Right. So I feel like it's something
35:47
that we need to do more of. Please tell us now,
35:50
where can we find you? What are you up to? Because
35:53
we need to stay connected. You and I will a hundred
35:57
percent stay connected. That's like a given,
35:59
but I'm right now it's kind of interesting. I've
36:01
transitioned out of a company. I mentioned that
36:03
I worked out for 16 years and now I'm kind of
36:07
debating on like, Hey, do I go back corporate?
36:10
Do I start my own business? You mentioned earlier,
36:13
I have my labor of love, her stories, which I
36:16
need to be interviewed. That's such a passion
36:18
project to interview inspiring women. I joke
36:21
then too, but it's really helping to tell the
36:24
story of, you know, women have so many stories
36:27
and so much to share and very often don't think
36:30
they're inspiring. And so I love that kind of
36:33
part of it. You know, I'm getting more involved
36:35
in some nonprofit. I'm excited for there's so
36:39
much opportunity in technology, you know, with
36:41
AI and kind of the growth. I'm excited, know
36:44
it's a hard job market. But I'm also like want
36:47
to take advantage of you know, what's my next
36:50
step? This is a great Everyone, you know new
36:52
beginnings across the board and i'm kind of excited
36:55
for next things So you'll see me i'm posting
36:58
you've seen on linkedin anyone that wants to
37:00
reach out You'll see i'm starting to go to a
37:03
lot more like e -sport e -gaming events content
37:05
creator events I'm very curious what atlanta's
37:08
doing and i'm fascinated with Really e -sports
37:12
and gaming. It's like a billion dollars plus
37:15
business. And I'm just fascinated with, companies
37:18
aren't thinking of that as a big revenue stream
37:21
and partnership. And I'm pouring that too. So
37:25
it's kind of a fun, exciting time of kind of
37:28
what's next. Yes, you'll be a great chief marketing
37:32
officer at any like rather fractional at any
37:36
company I have no doubt because like I said from
37:38
a finance perspective You like the finance leader
37:40
of our dream who understand what we need right
37:44
in finance and accounting It can really help
37:46
bridge You know between what we're doing now
37:49
and what also supporting what marketing is doing
37:51
to grow the business. So Yeah, thank you. And
37:54
I appreciate that and I feel the same with you
37:56
with your role being a CFO is really You said
38:00
you're doing this podcast to help bridge between
38:03
all these different divisions. How do we make
38:04
all of our jobs better more successful? And that's
38:08
what that's how we met It's the collaboration
38:10
of being in each other's world to help and I
38:12
think this podcast will really help people understand
38:15
and hopefully people understand how marketing
38:17
and Finance can really align more just even this
38:19
little bit This question is feel free to reach
38:22
out. I'm always happy as I joke always happy
38:24
to take a call to be like As you're in planning,
38:27
whatever you're thinking, you know, I'm always
38:29
happy to do that as well. That's it for the diary
38:32
of the CFO for today. I'm glad you were here
38:36
and you listen in. Elaine is such a great leader
38:39
and I'm so grateful she could come and share
38:42
her. amazing knowledge and insight about finance
38:45
marketing and really business in general. If
38:48
you like this episode, don't forget to subscribe,
38:50
share it with family and friends and leave a
38:53
review. Also, if you have any topics you'd like
38:56
me to go over or any guests you think I should
38:59
bring on the show, go to ask at the diary of
39:03
the CFO .com. Again, the email address is asked
39:07
at the diary of the CFO .com or just send me
39:10
a DM to LinkedIn. or at my email address, all
39:14
right? Can't wait to see you soon. Cheers.