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Lewis Raymond Taylor: The Psychopath Behind High Performance · The BEYOND Podcast

• 0:00
  Unknown: I've never interviewed A psychopath before.
• 0:08
  I mean, obviously I don't feel anything, I'm sure.
• 0:11
  How do you answer the allegation that you are exploitative in the
• 0:14
  cult? How many times were you 3?
• 0:17
  Times Does that put a man in a coma?
• 0:20
  No. Yeah, that was the main thing.
• 0:23
  Well, I've actually put, I've actually put two people on a
• 0:25
  coma and I realised in that moment that I, I was the
• 0:29
  problem. In this episode, we step inside
• 0:31
  the mind of a psychopath who chose to rewrite his history.
• 0:36
  Growing up, my dad was an alcoholic and he would put me
• 0:38
  down a lot. He'd call me a buffoon.
• 0:41
  He'd tell me I'd never amount to anything.
• 0:42
  He would say I was stupid. He'd say I was bad.
• 0:48
  From prison to 25,000,000. Now the subject of Netflix the
• 0:53
  Psychopath Life Coach documentary and a Penguin
• 0:57
  author. Spotlighted by Forbes and Yahoo
• 0:59
  Finance as one of the world's top 10 coaches.
• 1:03
  Meet Louis Raymond I've never interviewed A psychopath before.
• 1:18
  Welcome. Welcome to your own podcast.
• 1:23
  I did a story just before so I'm trying to no it.
• 1:27
  It's something like for someone to admit that they're a
• 1:31
  psychopath and then to build a career as as successful as yours
• 1:36
  whilst telling everyone and on Netflix having a literal
• 1:41
  documentary about yourself admitting I'm a psychopath and
• 1:45
  then making money off it. That is wild.
• 1:49
  How do you feel about it? Do you feel do?
• 1:52
  You feel. I mean, obviously I don't feel
• 1:55
  anything. I'm sure we'll, yeah.
• 1:56
  I mean, we'll get into that, but I just don't have a a visceral
• 2:01
  reaction, so. Come on.
• 2:03
  It's, it's just as a thing, you know, it's like asking a blind
• 2:07
  person why they can't see, you know, it's I have cognitive
• 2:11
  emotions, so I could tell you how I feel, but it's just the
• 2:14
  way I represent it. So I could answer that question,
• 2:16
  but if we'd get get into that. But if you see like a a little
• 2:19
  kitten or something getting ridden over, do you not feel
• 2:21
  really, really sad? Is is it that kind of feeling
• 2:23
  that you don't have, or is it a different kind of feeling that
• 2:25
  you don't? See, that's a little bit
• 2:27
  different because that's on, it's on the spectrum and there's
• 2:29
  a threshold. So the illusion of empathy and
• 2:33
  fear and things that people seem to get consumed by on a
• 2:37
  day-to-day basis, I just don't feel.
• 2:39
  It's just very baseline. If something significant
• 2:42
  happens, If I was to see a cat getting run over, I would.
• 2:46
  It's difficult because I'd have to really be there to know
• 2:48
  exactly what I feel like because it is kind of rare that I have
• 2:50
  those moments. But I would be concerned about
• 2:53
  it, you know, and I would be. Yeah, I would.
• 2:54
  I would care about it. Yeah.
• 2:56
  I actually really like cats from the earth.
• 2:58
  I actually have. At one point I had five because
• 3:01
  in Bali we would see them on the street, little ironically,
• 3:04
  little ones on, on the street and I, I would take them home.
• 3:08
  So I do like cats. But it's just, it's, there's a
• 3:11
  big difference between cognitive understanding, empathy, feeling
• 3:15
  like I know that's sad and wrong and bad, you know, and having a
• 3:19
  visceral reaction to it. And if something significant
• 3:23
  happens, like a death or something really tragic or
• 3:25
  something, you know, I will have a feel.
• 3:28
  Yeah, but it, it will be less and it will be, it'll be less.
• 3:31
  It'll be like a tiny little flicker and it will go straight
• 3:33
  away after. OK, you see, I mean, I love that
• 3:36
  you've said that you love cats. That just shows you because I'm,
• 3:39
  I just love cats. And it's just, I've got 3 cats
• 3:41
  that put in my bum. Of course, even if you're
• 3:43
  psyched about the one that's going to have you have feelings
• 3:45
  for, it's going to be a cat. Yeah, let's be, let's be honest,
• 3:48
  OK. But look, let's just go through
• 3:50
  some of your credentials here, OK?
• 3:52
  And I have taken notes about this because this is really
• 3:55
  outrageous. So from prison.
• 3:58
  And also I've never met anyone that's gone to prison that I
• 4:01
  know ever in my life. So this is a, a first to
• 4:04
  25,000,000 empire. You're a really good business
• 4:08
  person. Thank you.
• 4:10
  That is so cool, Netflix. I mean, you have a documentary
• 4:15
  about yourself. We said that you're totally in
• 4:16
  the spotlight and there's more documentaries on the way.
• 4:18
  There's things constantly happening for you.
• 4:21
  I know that you had an event the other day.
• 4:22
  You're totally on a big stage. You've got people coming around
• 4:26
  doesn't even it's like literally nothing for you.
• 4:29
  And then you've got this. You want to rewire education
• 4:32
  because we'll, we'll talk about this.
• 4:34
  You're very into education, but in a different way.
• 4:37
  And then your business is about coaching and you're very good at
• 4:42
  it. So you've got you're pursuing
• 4:43
  APHD in education. Well, it's interesting because
• 4:46
  you, you must have, you should have updated your homework
• 4:48
  actually, because. I wanted yeah, I know.
• 4:50
  OK, we'll talk about this. We'll talk about this.
• 4:52
  Yeah. There's a whole thing about the
• 4:54
  education and how you've taken a a different part.
• 4:57
  We'll we'll, we'll pause that one.
• 4:59
  But you've done so many wonderful things and you've done
• 5:03
  it whilst with this label, OK. And that's massive.
• 5:07
  So we're going to talk about that.
• 5:10
  So the documentary about you is called The Psychopath Life
• 5:15
  Coach, is that that's correct. OK.
• 5:20
  Were you OK with that? Did you question and go don't
• 5:23
  don't call this documentary that or whose idea was the title?
• 5:28
  It wasn't the initial work in title for it, but as as the sort
• 5:32
  of exploration of everything unfolded, that became the
• 5:36
  central. Thing that became thing.
• 5:37
  Yeah, because that was the unique edge.
• 5:39
  And, you know, I was OK with it because I I, I'm logic first.
• 5:44
  I'm not emotion first. Most people would be like, I
• 5:46
  can't be called a sucker bear. What was going to be and what
• 5:48
  are people going to think of? Me, but I'm emotion.
• 5:50
  I haven't quite emotion. Have you?
• 5:52
  But for me, it's logic 1st and I understand marketing and I
• 5:55
  understand the, the idea of sensationalism and being
• 5:59
  interesting. And people aren't going to watch
• 6:01
  it if it wasn't called that, you know, so, and it gives me a
• 6:05
  platform to educate and inspire. And what it's called doesn't,
• 6:09
  doesn't bother me. And I found it, yeah, I found it
• 6:10
  interesting. It's something that I've I've,
• 6:13
  I've found quite enjoyable to to talk about and be positioned as
• 6:17
  because it's, it's different, it's unique.
• 6:19
  It is unique and people have watched it and today I was at
• 6:21
  the hairdresser having my hair done and the hairdresser, yeah,
• 6:24
  see, I've seen it's a connection.
• 6:24
  You're going to interview she's. Like, well, it because it this
• 6:26
  is what I didn't expect to be honest with you, to get into the
• 6:29
  top 10. So it was top.
• 6:30
  It was 7 in the charts in the UK.
• 6:32
  This. Is it's pretty huge.
• 6:34
  She was like, I can't believe you interviewing him.
• 6:35
  I'm like, yes, I'm terrified. She's like, Oh my God.
• 6:39
  You're going to be OK. I'm like, I don't know.
• 6:41
  I don't know. I said, what's the thing people
• 6:44
  get wrong about you? They have this expectation.
• 6:46
  They what do you think they get wrong about you?
• 6:49
  Because you're obviously aware. You're very aware.
• 6:51
  I can see you sort of looking and analysing and it's like, I
• 6:54
  know, I know you're aware. So what do you think people get
• 6:58
  wrong about you? I think if people take the time
• 7:00
  to actually learn about me, they don't get much wrong because I'm
• 7:04
  so I'm brutally honest and transparent to the point where
• 7:07
  people just can't really get their head around how I would be
• 7:09
  so blase about the things that I think and feel or don't feel or
• 7:13
  care about or don't. My intentions and all sorts of
• 7:16
  things. I think so when people actually
• 7:18
  understand and learn about me, they get me right because I'm
• 7:21
  displaying exactly who I am. It's the people that don't take
• 7:24
  the time to learn about me. So they might see a snippet of a
• 7:26
  reel that's 30 seconds long and it's me talking about putting a
• 7:29
  guy in a coma and not feeling anything for it.
• 7:31
  And of course I get your evil should be locked away for life.
• 7:34
  So those of course people don't understand.
• 7:35
  They also don't understand psychopathy or if we are going
• 7:38
  to get it into more detail. Yeah, let's we'll get in more.
• 7:41
  Detail the actual clinical diagnosis behind it, which is an
• 7:43
  antisocial personality disorder, and this is just
• 7:46
  neurodivergence. This is no different than
• 7:47
  someone that's got ADH or dyslexia, really.
• 7:50
  Yes. And you're a diverse I've got a
• 7:52
  diverse I. Do know quite a few people that
• 7:54
  are openly they talk about that and they on you're diverse and
• 7:57
  you can see that their brain works in a different way and
• 7:59
  they get really excited about things and they'll, you know,
• 8:02
  you'll talk about something and they'll go into another subject
• 8:04
  really quickly and passionately. You think, well, hang on, come
• 8:07
  back. But but it's it's sort of in a
• 8:09
  child like very genuine what you say.
• 8:11
  It's very direct, very honest, very There isn't.
• 8:16
  There's something nice about that.
• 8:17
  But there's also something probably counter intuitively
• 8:21
  negative about it as well. You know, it's like what?
• 8:24
  Well, people that can have low ADHD can have low attention
• 8:27
  spans and they can find it very difficult to concentrate or get
• 8:30
  things done. They procrastinate a lot, they
• 8:34
  overwhelm themselves with too many things.
• 8:36
  So there's so there's, there's dark and light to everything.
• 8:39
  And I, I think it's just in more recent years, we're becoming
• 8:42
  more open to the ways that people work.
• 8:44
  It was only, you know, however many years ago that, you know,
• 8:48
  the whole LGBTQ thing, you know, that was not spoken about.
• 8:51
  And now it's like, of course, huge in every aspect that
• 8:54
  possibly could be. Now it's moving into now it's
• 8:57
  moving into the way that you think as well.
• 8:59
  And, and I think different layers of that will get
• 9:01
  unfolded, you know, for at first it might be, oh, I think
• 9:04
  slightly differently. And it's like, oh, that person's
• 9:06
  got a disability, Then if you've got dyslexia, you're disabled
• 9:09
  now it's like, OK, they just think a certain different way
• 9:11
  that's harnessed those skills. And how can we benefit from
• 9:14
  that? And what type of person is this?
• 9:16
  And then different layers get, you know, unravelled.
• 9:19
  And I think something like psychopathy, this has got the
• 9:22
  worst label attached to it. That is going to be one of the
• 9:25
  last to be uncovered. But I I'm seeing already an
• 9:28
  awareness around it. Yeah.
• 9:30
  And there, there are more features that I know about that
• 9:33
  are coming up that are going to bring a lot of light to this.
• 9:34
  And more people are going to come out of the woodworks for
• 9:36
  sure. Interesting.
• 9:38
  OK, so you've shared a lot about your life, prison, addiction,
• 9:46
  your diagnosis. Does a part of you regret being
• 9:50
  so open or you totally comfortable?
• 9:54
  Totally comfortable I I I. Note question yourself sometimes
• 9:58
  at nights of wake I think. The only one thing that's come
• 10:01
  up recently, because I recently did another documentary that's
• 10:03
  going to be aired in Germany as a whole, different feature of
• 10:06
  that, sort of similar in Germany.
• 10:09
  And since the first documentary, I've had a son and the questions
• 10:14
  that come up around him to do with love and things are very
• 10:18
  sensitive because I'm very aware of if one day he may watch that
• 10:24
  and what he would think about that.
• 10:26
  Because I want to make sure that he, you know, understands that
• 10:29
  correctly and he doesn't perceive that in the wrong way.
• 10:31
  So that's probably the only thing that I don't regret it,
• 10:34
  but that's the probably the first time I felt uncomfortable
• 10:38
  with how my thoughts might be perceived because I'm now aware
• 10:42
  that it's not just me. Yeah, there's someone more
• 10:44
  important than you and their life is impacted by by
• 10:48
  everything. You've just.
• 10:49
  Yeah, it's communication, isn't it?
• 10:51
  You've got to let them know, like you say who you are and
• 10:54
  then the rest is noise. Once they know you, they know
• 10:57
  you. They're it doesn't.
• 10:58
  It doesn't. But I I get it as a parent I I
• 11:00
  totally. Because imagine being asked, do
• 11:04
  you love your son? Oh, God, that's what they threw
• 11:06
  at me, you know? And the answer is yes, I do.
• 11:10
  Yeah. But I don't necessarily feel it
• 11:13
  and it's different and it's probably less.
• 11:16
  That's the truth. Because I can't just pick and
• 11:19
  choose. I can't just say I'll have that
• 11:21
  emotion, but not that one. And I just have a very flat
• 11:24
  range and it's a knowing rather than a feeling and it's shallow
• 11:28
  and it's lower than than. Well, I don't know, because
• 11:32
  you've just exhibited more than parents who don't consider
• 11:35
  themselves having the psychopathy and whatever that
• 11:37
  you you are considering him already.
• 11:39
  You're thinking about, well, when he's old, he's gonna watch
• 11:42
  these things back. Yeah, what I've said is gonna
• 11:43
  impact him. And a lot of parents don't.
• 11:45
  Yeah. You know, they don't care how
• 11:46
  they speak to their kids and whether that's gonna affect them
• 11:48
  or not. I mean, and they don't have any
• 11:50
  diagnosis. True.
• 11:51
  They absolutely should. And that and that's why it's a
• 11:54
  spectrum. You know, I'm not a full blown
• 11:56
  psychopath that cares about nothing and nobody other than
• 11:58
  myself and would go out. I want to create harm to
• 12:01
  everybody I can. You know, that's the just the
• 12:03
  nought .1% that the population have known from serial killer
• 12:07
  documentaries. You know, that's a very, very
• 12:10
  small part of that spectrum. I cognitively understand and
• 12:15
  intellectualize and know what's right and wrong and have values
• 12:19
  and morals that I've learned that I stand by.
• 12:23
  Not because I get an instinctual, gut, visceral
• 12:26
  feeling that I have to do it, but because I've learnt and I
• 12:28
  know that that's what I want to live my life by.
• 12:31
  You made a conscious decision to live like that.
• 12:33
  OK, so in terms of those things like you say this, you know,
• 12:37
  this psychopath can go all the way to the to the extreme and
• 12:40
  they do some very, very bad stuff.
• 12:42
  What about for you? What was that little the cut of
• 12:45
  points, the rock bottom? We thought, OK, you know
• 12:48
  something, let's change this. I don't like the way that it is
• 12:51
  to now, and I'm making a decision to change.
• 12:54
  Yeah. What was that?
• 12:55
  I mean, I've never actually. I mean, you might be surprised
• 12:57
  to hear this. I mean, considering, you know,
• 12:59
  you've gone through. Yeah.
• 13:00
  So my back story is things like I've had a suicide attempt.
• 13:03
  I've. I've broken my jaw.
• 13:05
  My cheekbone. No, sorry.
• 13:06
  I've broken it. Yeah.
• 13:07
  My jaw, my cheekbone. And.
• 13:08
  How did you break your jaw? Your cheekbone.
• 13:10
  Just fights, you know? Yeah.
• 13:13
  Why are you fighting with people?
• 13:15
  On reflection, there's a few things on it.
• 13:18
  One, I crave significance because I didn't feel loved by
• 13:23
  my family. I don't think that they
• 13:26
  displayed it to me, but also they're probably a part of.
• 13:29
  I didn't know how to receive it or feel it even if it was
• 13:31
  present because they weren't showing me they love me, but
• 13:35
  there's probably still an element so.
• 13:36
  You didn't get hugs and like no comes in on my lap.
• 13:40
  I. Might have got that, yeah, but I
• 13:41
  didn't get the I love. You the the really.
• 13:43
  I love you and so. Because it's there's there's
• 13:45
  many parts of love, but one of it's showing it and the other
• 13:48
  one's feeling it. So you could probably have a
• 13:50
  parent who doesn't outwardly display it so much, but you
• 13:53
  still feel it because you. Yeah, they they do things.
• 13:55
  They or they or it's not even there do things.
• 13:57
  There's just probably this, I'm just guessing that there's this
• 13:59
  kind of radiation bond of love. So for me, I didn't get that
• 14:03
  because I didn't know how to, didn't have it, didn't have that
• 14:06
  connection, but also I wasn't shown it.
• 14:09
  So the closest thing that I could A tribute to love in my
• 14:13
  mind was significance that was in my warped sense of reality
• 14:17
  without even consciously really knowing it to.
• 14:19
  Whom? Significance in any way, like I
• 14:21
  used to like acting and singing and dancing when I was younger
• 14:24
  because I would be up on stage and I'd be getting attention
• 14:26
  then I started negatively behaving and getting attention
• 14:29
  that way. So, you know, I was expelled
• 14:31
  from school at 15 and I had. Why did you get expelled?
• 14:34
  What did you do? Refusing to accept the authority
• 14:37
  of staff because there's another sort of symptom of the
• 14:39
  antisocial personality disorder. I don't see the hierarchy of of
• 14:44
  authority. It is completely baseline to me.
• 14:47
  So it doesn't matter who you are.
• 14:49
  You know how important you are. I just can't.
• 14:51
  I don't get that. I don't get that obvious or I
• 14:55
  should, you know, listened or behaved with this person.
• 14:58
  So I was just very rebellious and eventually got me kicked
• 15:01
  out. Yeah.
• 15:01
  I mean, I, I do, I sort of, I, I definitely do respect authority
• 15:05
  and like the headmaster walks in and you know, and headmaster.
• 15:08
  So you didn't? To me, it's just another person.
• 15:12
  Wow. But in a way, you could also
• 15:15
  polarize that and say, but then that's good because everyone
• 15:19
  should be treated equally. So it's like we can, it depends
• 15:21
  how we look at things. You know, you could be like, he
• 15:23
  thinks he's better than everybody else.
• 15:24
  He doesn't respect people. But it's not necessarily the
• 15:26
  case. It's just a case of I don't look
• 15:28
  at it and say, society has told me that this is a person that I
• 15:34
  should listen to. I see it as I'm going to make my
• 15:39
  own decision up. What about like police and stuff
• 15:46
  like that and the law that's not relevant?
• 15:49
  No, I mean, I like the law. I like that there's rules.
• 15:54
  And because I, I think, you know, my daughter's just gone in
• 15:58
  to study politics and she's asking me my political views and
• 16:02
  whether I think, and we went to see Alcatraz and stuff.
• 16:04
  She's asking me about prison and whether it's good and the rules
• 16:07
  and should, how long should people be in prison for and all
• 16:08
  that sort of thing. And everyone's got their views.
• 16:10
  And like, my husband will say, like, no, like, there should be
• 16:12
  much more like reform in prison. People shouldn't just be put in
• 16:15
  prison. Like, you should look at, you
• 16:17
  know, why are they there and do some other things.
• 16:18
  Like prison doesn't work, you know?
• 16:20
  But then you think about, like, really dangerous people, and
• 16:23
  you're grateful that there's prison because you think, well,
• 16:25
  it's protecting, you know, those.
• 16:27
  And there shouldn't be some authority, otherwise everyone's
• 16:29
  going to do what they want. What do you think about that?
• 16:32
  We'll see. I think that's where it gets
• 16:35
  confusing for people because it's not to say that I don't
• 16:37
  think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea.
• 16:40
  I know it's a good idea, but do I have this immediate natural
• 16:45
  response to follow it? No.
• 16:47
  No. And I think it's, yeah, of
• 16:50
  course. I mean society would be a mess
• 16:52
  without it. You agree with that?
• 16:54
  It would be right? Yeah, of course.
• 16:56
  Just let people do whatever they want.
• 16:57
  And I can logically respect the police and, and I think they're
• 17:00
  doing a good job. And I don't have any, you know,
• 17:04
  I don't wish they weren't there. But for me, when I was growing
• 17:09
  up, I just didn't have. I had to learn that I shouldn't
• 17:13
  break the rules. I had to learn that it wasn't
• 17:15
  natural. I wouldn't actually.
• 17:17
  Break authorities? Yeah.
• 17:18
  I wouldn't actually break the rules because I didn't have any
• 17:21
  value for them naturally, and then learned later on in life
• 17:25
  how I can't keep doing this because it's going to put me
• 17:26
  back in prison. Yeah, there was a rule that I
• 17:29
  broke because I I went to boarding school, OK?
• 17:32
  And I was in a girls school and there was a girls school and
• 17:35
  there was a little gate and then there was a boys school and you
• 17:38
  were not allowed ever to step your foot over to the boys side
• 17:43
  of thing after 5:00 PM to the boys side to school.
• 17:46
  I thought that's a ridiculous rule because there's no like
• 17:50
  it's not, you live there, so it's your home.
• 17:52
  So you and the gates open and sometimes you have a
• 17:56
  conversation that you have to finish.
• 17:57
  You know, this is like, you know, young loving things is
• 17:59
  really important. And I thought I did think in
• 18:03
  your way, I'm going to break the rule and stay after 5:00 PM
• 18:07
  because I have to finish this conversation.
• 18:09
  There is no way I'm not having this breakup conversation or
• 18:12
  whatever it was. So I did that.
• 18:14
  And then because I knew that I had broken the rules, I said to
• 18:19
  the prefix, I've broken the rules.
• 18:22
  I've done deliberately. You can punish me.
• 18:23
  I can be grounded, you know, whatever they they that you're
• 18:26
  literally not allowed to see anyone and do anything for like
• 18:29
  three months or something following something like serious
• 18:32
  incident because it's like a security breach, whatever you
• 18:34
  want to call it. But I said you guys can.
• 18:35
  That's fine. I'm happy to to go through the
• 18:38
  punishment, but this was 100%. It's not ridiculous.
• 18:42
  I'm not doing I'm not doing anything bad, bad.
• 18:44
  You know, I'm only having a conversation for you.
• 18:49
  Like I told you, I've never met anyone that went to prison
• 18:52
  before. But yeah, yeah.
• 18:53
  I mean, you know, I think. Yeah, it makes sense.
• 18:54
  I mean, in that scenario you looked at it as a ridiculous.
• 18:57
  Rule. It was a ridiculous.
• 18:58
  Rule and it allowed you to see past the illusion of this isn't
• 19:01
  just something I should do, this is something someone's telling
• 19:04
  me to do, and your values were more important than that rule,
• 19:07
  therefore you broke. It so is that your what you're
• 19:09
  doing is what I'm trying to. Get in that scenario, most
• 19:11
  scenarios is yeah, well, I've learnt now that I can't break
• 19:15
  the law because that's bad and that's going to get me into
• 19:17
  trouble but before that kind of rebellious nature of you saying
• 19:22
  no, I I care about doing this more than the rule that set upon
• 19:25
  me was pretty much my. But I handed myself in.
• 19:28
  Did you hand yourself in? No.
• 19:32
  OK. Which brings us to prison.
• 19:34
  Like what? What is prison even like?
• 19:37
  Well, I went to prison quite a few times, so it wasn't just
• 19:39
  once I went to prison. How many times were?
• 19:41
  You three times, the first time when I was when I was 18.
• 19:44
  Now that was a very different. You're not.
• 19:47
  You're going to be amazed by my answer, but I'll tell you the
• 19:48
  truth. So I quite enjoyed it, which
• 19:53
  people find really, really enjoyed prison.
• 19:55
  Yeah, I enjoyed both times, and both for different reasons.
• 19:58
  How did you enjoy prison? Because it's very, there's an
• 20:02
  element of chaos that I'm attracted to.
• 20:03
  And this actually brings me back to the question you asked me
• 20:05
  earlier about why did you, why were you fighting?
• 20:09
  And there's an element of I wanted.
• 20:12
  Significance and I felt that through the power of of violence
• 20:15
  and that I could get an element of significance but also it was
• 20:19
  now I realize a searching to feel because with that
• 20:23
  adrenaline and you know becomes a sensation and the more that
• 20:27
  was more of a physiological reaction in my body, it was
• 20:29
  still kind of something that's why a lot of people with an anti
• 20:32
  social personality disorder will use drink and drugs because.
• 20:35
  They're just trying to stimulate themselves.
• 20:38
  So I think that fighting was a way of doing that, but also
• 20:41
  chaos and sabotage also gave me an element of feeling and
• 20:47
  adrenaline and. Yeah, I you've got a rise out of
• 20:51
  you Like it? Yeah, I've got a kick out of it,
• 20:52
  Yeah. It's my adrenaline and all the
• 20:54
  hormones and it's affecting you in in like psychologically,
• 20:57
  physically, those chemicals or you like that sort of feeling.
• 21:01
  Wow. And then in prison.
• 21:04
  So you were getting that as well, I mean.
• 21:06
  Yeah, because it was just extreme.
• 21:07
  I like the idea of extreme. Like I really don't like the
• 21:10
  idea of normality and everyday life.
• 21:12
  But what's in prison? That's extreme.
• 21:14
  Sorry for Inter. Because it's just, it's just
• 21:16
  chaos. It's just fight and it's just.
• 21:18
  People fighting in there all the time.
• 21:20
  Well, the first one I went to was young offenders.
• 21:22
  So it's 18 to 21 years old. And these, these people have no
• 21:25
  idea of consequences. They just want to, they want to
• 21:28
  get worse crimes. Actually, they're actually
• 21:29
  trying to get more sentence perfect.
• 21:32
  The first thing they ask you is what you're in for, because then
• 21:33
  you get ranked by how bad your crime was.
• 21:36
  And my my belief system started getting warped to the fact that
• 21:38
  I was thinking I need to come come back here another time for
• 21:41
  a more serious crime. Oh no.
• 21:43
  But I just didn't hang. It on with the wrong crowd.
• 21:45
  Yeah, and I, I enjoyed that. I mean, it's just like, for
• 21:47
  example, a lot of people when they're younger, they like going
• 21:50
  out, getting drunk in the park and, you know, well, maybe I I
• 21:53
  did and smashing windows and kind of I just liked all that
• 21:55
  stuff. You know, I enjoyed it.
• 21:56
  I got a kick out of it and I did it when I went to prison, but
• 21:59
  that was a very different time. And I went in again, young
• 22:02
  offenders a little bit after that.
• 22:05
  But the next time I had a A. Big Did you upgrade your
• 22:07
  offence? Yeah, yeah, I did.
• 22:09
  Yeah. So next time I went in for GBH.
• 22:12
  What's that? Grievous bodily harm.
• 22:15
  So I put a man in a coma. No.
• 22:18
  Yeah, that was the main thing. Well, I've actually put, I've
• 22:20
  actually put two people in a coma.
• 22:23
  You didn't. So I've done DBH before but I
• 22:25
  didn't go to prison for it because I was on trial for two
• 22:27
  years. You didn't mean to put them into
• 22:29
  a coma. You just.
• 22:30
  It got probably went too far. But you didn't mean to do that.
• 22:33
  I didn't mean to. That's intense.
• 22:36
  Yeah. Well, I didn't put the two
• 22:37
  people in a coma. Sorry.
• 22:38
  I gave two people a brain hemorrhage.
• 22:40
  One of them went into a coma. So you were really fighting
• 22:44
  really badly and getting into. Well, actually, I mean, I was,
• 22:48
  yeah, I was. Those particular scenarios
• 22:50
  actually is more unlucky I think.
• 22:53
  This just got really serious. Really.
• 22:55
  It was like, oh, you went to prison.
• 22:57
  It's like I actually did that. That this just, I mean, that's.
• 23:00
  So this is where the psychopathy, because it's
• 23:03
  interesting, if you look at the psychopathy checklist, most of
• 23:07
  it is behavioral. So most of it is the things that
• 23:09
  you're doing, which is interesting because now because
• 23:12
  I've learnt to harness my behaviour and I've developed my
• 23:15
  mind and I've become more cognitively aware, I've trained
• 23:17
  myself, I've learned how to access empathy on a more of a
• 23:20
  brain level than a, than a body level and all these things.
• 23:24
  I don't necessarily display as many of the checklist points as
• 23:28
  I used to, but I still display the ones that are more of a like
• 23:34
  a biological response. Like what?
• 23:37
  Like what? I don't feel empathy, I don't
• 23:42
  feel fear. I don't really feel any emotion
• 23:46
  other than things that stimulate me.
• 23:47
  So that's why the significance, the attention, the fame, the
• 23:50
  success, those are the things that kind of make me feel, yeah.
• 23:55
  You've got your new thing in a way.
• 23:56
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 23:57
  And I don't mind admitting it. Like most people are like, oh, I
• 24:00
  don't want to be famous. I don't want to be in the
• 24:02
  spotlight. Yeah, I was going to ask you
• 24:03
  like, do you like how do you feel about that?
• 24:05
  I mean. I mean, it gives me something.
• 24:07
  I mean, I've got to find something, right?
• 24:09
  Because otherwise I do feel flat and I do feel empty.
• 24:11
  There is like a, there is a, there is a numbness to me that
• 24:14
  This is why people sometimes go out there, get very depressed
• 24:19
  and end up killing people because they want to feel.
• 24:22
  I can tell you that's probably one of the main reasons they
• 24:24
  don't. And do you think a lot that
• 24:25
  they're undiagnosed basically they don't know a lot of them
• 24:28
  must be because it what did it take for you to get a diagnosis?
• 24:33
  So I committed a load of very violent crimes in a very short
• 24:37
  period of time and I was going to court and my probation
• 24:42
  officer sent me for a pre sentence report.
• 24:44
  Sorry, the court sent me to probation for a pre sentence
• 24:47
  report. And that's where they analyze
• 24:48
  you and usually take into consideration background
• 24:51
  factors. And then they recommend
• 24:52
  sentencing for the judge. It's not like how you sort of
• 24:55
  see it on the TV where they make their minds up on the day.
• 24:57
  Like it's usually a bit of a process.
• 24:59
  Yeah, they went through all the backgrounds.
• 25:00
  And it's known to be in your absolute best behaviour on this
• 25:02
  pre sentence report because you're supposed to be presenting
• 25:05
  yourself well so that you get a favourable sentence.
• 25:07
  But I turned up there and I just had my arms crossed and I was
• 25:09
  like, Oh no, do you worse, you know, And they're like, do you
• 25:11
  not? Because at this at the time I, I
• 25:13
  was, I was actually on trial. I shouldn't laugh, but just
• 25:16
  because how extreme it is. I was actually on trial for four
• 25:19
  GBHS because me and my friend had a fight with four guys and
• 25:25
  and we just I blacked out drunk and.
• 25:27
  I'm just, you must be a terrible person to go to a fight with I.
• 25:30
  Was I was I used to because I used to be.
• 25:32
  Terrible. Like the psychopathic kind of.
• 25:34
  My eyes would glaze over, I couldn't see it.
• 25:36
  I don't remember anything and I just did.
• 25:39
  People not see that in you and go oh OK, I'm sorry and ran
• 25:41
  away. Did you today Mark?
• 25:43
  Who would want to pick a fight with you like.
• 25:45
  Well, lots of people back then, because they didn't, they didn't
• 25:48
  know I was and I wouldn't win all the time.
• 25:50
  Most of them I would because I wouldn't stop.
• 25:52
  You didn't care though, did you? No, I enjoyed it.
• 25:54
  See, that's another thing I enjoyed.
• 25:55
  I quite liked the fighting. It was like a self sabotage
• 25:58
  release. It was a release of anger,
• 25:59
  adrenaline. OK, but OK, OK, what what I find
• 26:06
  uncomfortable right with this is that surely you would know and
• 26:11
  maybe you didn't know. I don't know.
• 26:12
  But surely like even even if you are, I don't know about drugs,
• 26:16
  but I say drunk and you're fighting with someone.
• 26:18
  Surely you would know that sort of limit of how much you can
• 26:22
  hurt them. Or does that just go that you
• 26:25
  would know if I, you know, do something more that?
• 26:27
  You guys think that I grew up and my friends were that were
• 26:32
  also violent and we we were proud of it.
• 26:35
  That's the truth. Well, the whole group was proud
• 26:38
  of everyone was proud. Would they also psych up?
• 26:39
  I mean, why are they proud? Of us necessarily, but I mean,
• 26:42
  it's a nature and nurture thing. You can also, you can have
• 26:44
  inherently have like a like a desire for, I mean violence.
• 26:48
  I guess it sounds quite extreme to say that.
• 26:50
  Or you can, you know, just learn to be a lad.
• 26:53
  I mean, there's this, it's not part of where you've grown up,
• 26:55
  right? But I can tell you there's a big
• 26:57
  part of the population that you know, you go down the pub and
• 26:59
  it's like you, you, you're telling about the fight you had
• 27:01
  done that last night and you get more popularity and more girls
• 27:04
  for the, for the better fight you have.
• 27:05
  Can I understand that a bit? But but there's, I think there's
• 27:08
  a line between, you know, fighting and then then fighting,
• 27:13
  fighting there. Is as a as a as a mature 35 year
• 27:17
  old man that's educated himself around right and wrong, but as a
• 27:21
  18 year old lad that had no parental guidance around what's
• 27:26
  right and wrong and only a group of friends that were doing that.
• 27:29
  The group of friends aren't bad. Like you're all, you're all
• 27:32
  influencing each other, I mean. I was probably one of the worst
• 27:35
  but. You were?
• 27:36
  Yeah, you probably were. I think I'd be careful who you
• 27:40
  hang out with. I'm a very good influence, by
• 27:42
  the way. You gotta be yeah, you have to
• 27:44
  be very careful. Like it's 100% that, you know, I
• 27:46
  mean, and I was, you know, it was a lot of, you know, few,
• 27:49
  few, few people I know have been killed.
• 27:51
  You know, one of my friends got stabbed and murdered with one
• 27:55
  kitchen knife to the heart. Come on, a few few people I know
• 27:59
  I've got I've been killed by 1 punches.
• 28:02
  It's just kind of, I don't know if I don't know because I'm not
• 28:05
  on the scene anymore. I should imagine it's still
• 28:06
  there, but there's just a big community and belief and
• 28:09
  societal group of people that just for some reason get a bit
• 28:14
  of a kick out of that. I'm really good.
• 28:17
  I'm not hanging out in that crowd.
• 28:19
  Me too much. Anxiety.
• 28:21
  And you too. Now you're not, you know you're
• 28:22
  not. How much were drugs affecting
• 28:26
  that messing with people's minds?
• 28:29
  I say I fuelled it, yeah. So I would say that that I was a
• 28:33
  part of it. Alcohol definitely for me, I
• 28:36
  could control myself when I was sober, not all the time, but
• 28:40
  most of the time. But when?
• 28:41
  When alcohol came into the picture.
• 28:43
  Is alcohol worse than drugs for for fighting?
• 28:46
  It depends who you are for. For me it is, yeah.
• 28:49
  Because if anything out cocaine, which is what I used to take, it
• 28:53
  did get me aggressive, but it also kind of in a way sobered me
• 28:56
  up and they didn't mellow me yet, but it made me a bit more
• 28:59
  insulin when I'm I'm explosive on alcohol, like I just, I can
• 29:03
  just take off with alcohol with with, with, with cocaine, I can
• 29:06
  be a bit more wide and but sort of a little bit more to myself,
• 29:10
  but. Really.
• 29:11
  I heard that cocaine was a outgoing, like it made people
• 29:15
  outgoing and more. High.
• 29:15
  Oh, it does. It does.
• 29:16
  But maybe with you it was a different.
• 29:18
  It did also make me confident and you know, have a good time
• 29:21
  and life and soul of the party. But I kind of had my rationale
• 29:25
  still there a little bit. But then when you mix them both.
• 29:28
  So what I would do is I would drink alcohol, save myself up
• 29:31
  with cocaine, alcohol, cocaine, and then it gets to the point
• 29:33
  where I was just gone. So it's called actually Coco
• 29:36
  ethylene. It's a different chemical
• 29:37
  compound when you mix alcohol and and cocaine and it caused Co
• 29:41
  ethylene. That's what it is terrible and
• 29:43
  that is a is a very dangerous combination.
• 29:45
  So you can black out and you're just high on coke, for example.
• 29:49
  Then yeah, that's when I just would do the craziest stuff and
• 29:52
  not remember anything. Oh, OK, you're not doing that
• 29:57
  anymore. No, no.
• 29:58
  I'm. Not taking this.
• 30:00
  And I just want to sort of explain that I'm not taking any
• 30:02
  pride in that now, you know, it's just I'm being truthfully
• 30:04
  honest with where I was at the time because I had no awareness
• 30:08
  around that behavior and had no idea of the consequences.
• 30:12
  And because I didn't feel that natural empathy or remorse,
• 30:15
  whether it's because I was never taught it, explained it,
• 30:17
  displayed it, or never had the ability to feel it.
• 30:20
  I can tell you something speaking to you that you've got
• 30:23
  guts to say it all. That's why I keep asking, Are
• 30:25
  you sure you're OK to says? And I know you've done a Netflix
• 30:28
  documentary, but I'm also aware that you're a human being.
• 30:32
  You've got your family, you've got people that you know care
• 30:36
  about you. You don't want to affect others
• 30:38
  as well, even if you don't care so much about yourself.
• 30:40
  It's like I'm always unconscious.
• 30:42
  You know who I bring on and I I don't want to do anything to
• 30:45
  harm you. You know, I don't want anything
• 30:48
  bad to happen. I don't want I I want people to
• 30:51
  understand that it takes a lot of guts to say this.
• 30:55
  And I I know that you don't get scared in that way.
• 30:59
  Like a normal, like, well, not normal.
• 31:01
  I don't even know how to say non psychopath.
• 31:03
  What's a psychopathy? Empathy.
• 31:05
  Empathy. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:07
  Someone without that diagnosis would react.
• 31:10
  But it it does take guts. And what I think, I think and
• 31:16
  have a hunch that you're right about is that many have this
• 31:21
  undiagnosed diagnosis within them.
• 31:23
  The way that people behave, the things you see, you know, the
• 31:27
  also the crime stories that happen and a lot of young people
• 31:29
  and there will be these cocktails of the drugs and and
• 31:32
  these things happen. And then you kind of think,
• 31:34
  well, yeah, what you've probably no one sat down with you and
• 31:38
  actually looked into your brain and had a little look and go,
• 31:41
  are you all right? Like it's.
• 31:42
  Do you need some help here? Yeah, it's huge.
• 31:44
  I mean, it's it's a proven fact that 1% of the population are
• 31:48
  psychopaths, 1%. So out of every 100 people, you
• 31:50
  know, there's one that is there's a diagnosed one that
• 31:53
  most people never gonna go and get diagnosed with.
• 31:55
  They don't want that label attached to them and they don't
• 31:58
  understand themselves because it's difficult to compare
• 32:00
  yourself with other people. It's, it's although I had this
• 32:03
  diagnosis, it didn't really hit home until much later on in my
• 32:05
  life that I was actually on that spectrum.
• 32:08
  And it was mainly when I was actually coaching other people
• 32:10
  and listening to other people and just realizing I'm just not
• 32:12
  like these people. That was when I thought, oh,
• 32:14
  actually that that diagnosis makes sense now because I
• 32:18
  thought they just like labeled me with something because
• 32:21
  because I've been bad, done something wrong And they are,
• 32:24
  they must be mentally ill in this way because I've had
• 32:26
  different diagnosis. I've had bipolar as well and
• 32:29
  emotionally unstable, which is also borderline personality
• 32:32
  disorder. So I've had like multiple
• 32:34
  diagnosis and I kind of just think, how's this guy that's
• 32:36
  spoken to me for an hour can tell me about myself?
• 32:39
  You just can't. You just can't get your head
• 32:40
  around the fact that I've done all these things.
• 32:42
  So you've just chalked it up to this.
• 32:44
  But then it was later on in life I thought, oh, actually I've
• 32:46
  changed my behavior, I've changed my life, my identity,
• 32:49
  but these things still remain. And it was at that point where I
• 32:52
  realized, OK, there probably is some truth to it.
• 32:53
  Well. You can help a lot of people.
• 32:55
  I mean that that's for sure people that have gone through
• 32:57
  really bad stuff. You know, when when you've been
• 33:01
  there, you've been to the presidents as well.
• 33:03
  You know what it's like, you know what it's like to be in
• 33:05
  court. You know what it's like to hurt
• 33:07
  other people. And in fact, you know what it's
• 33:08
  like then you can't speak to them from that place.
• 33:11
  You know, I've been in that dark place.
• 33:12
  So that brought you to coaching and you are people won't know
• 33:16
  this, but on our pre podcast call that we had, you are such a
• 33:21
  coach like you actually are like naturally it just comes forward
• 33:25
  and you started to coach me and I was like I was like, OK, but
• 33:30
  in a way it's like, hang on, I'm interviewing you here.
• 33:34
  But you've got you do have this sort of a naturally mentoring
• 33:37
  thing about you. You do.
• 33:39
  Do you agree? Yeah.
• 33:41
  I mean, maybe it was like, like I mentioned, I see everyone as
• 33:43
  equal. So you were probably thinking,
• 33:45
  oh, he's coming on my podcast show.
• 33:47
  Yeah. But I was thinking you could do
• 33:49
  some help. Yeah, Yeah.
• 33:50
  Like, well, this is what you like on.
• 33:55
  Hang on. No, but it's like a natural
• 33:57
  mentoring thing where you want to, you want to help someone and
• 34:00
  you went like, OK, look. And it's very direct.
• 34:03
  I'm not used to it. Yeah, I'm not done, but it's
• 34:06
  also. Well, that's my approach and
• 34:07
  that's why being able to come become, you know, very
• 34:10
  successful in what I do, because it's a very different angle.
• 34:12
  Because when you're if you're a lot of people are worried about
• 34:15
  what they're going to say, how it's going to become, how it's
• 34:17
  going to come across, how that person's going to react.
• 34:20
  They're skating around subjects because they know that it's
• 34:22
  going to be uncomfortable for the person to hear.
• 34:24
  And with me, I don't get that. So I just cut through it and
• 34:29
  just. How do you live your life?
• 34:30
  So. So you like your coaching
• 34:35
  business? You enjoy it?
• 34:36
  Yeah. To be honest, I don't.
• 34:38
  I do less coaching now because obviously I've become ACEO.
• 34:42
  That was never the plan. When I started out.
• 34:44
  I was helping people for free in Costa Coffee, just trying to
• 34:47
  help. You are?
• 34:48
  Yeah, because I came out of rehab.
• 34:50
  So the story was I went to jail. You know, we've missed the kind
• 34:53
  of rock bottom bit. Anyway, yeah, yeah, we'll go.
• 34:55
  Let's Yeah, OK, let's no continue and then we'll go back
• 34:59
  to. So I went to, I went to prison.
• 35:01
  I mean, I'll explain that. So I didn't have a rock bottom
• 35:03
  moment. That's the truth.
• 35:04
  That's what I'm saying. You're going to be surprised.
• 35:05
  That you were saying that. You were saying I didn't.
• 35:07
  I didn't. I still didn't really see that
• 35:10
  much from a problem with it. That's the problem, you know,
• 35:12
  That is the problem. I didn't see the problem.
• 35:14
  You know, if anything, I used to look, I remember that I was
• 35:17
  sitting in a prison bus in this tiny little cubicle in the
• 35:20
  prison bus is going to jail handcuffed and just looking at
• 35:24
  people walking to work and going.
• 35:25
  I'm glad I'm not you because I, I thought that I was at least
• 35:30
  living my life in some capacity compared to these people that
• 35:33
  would just live in this mundane like that's that.
• 35:35
  Well, it didn't scare me, but that was what I wanted to avoid.
• 35:38
  That's what I didn't like the idea of because that.
• 35:40
  Going to work that much yeah, because it.
• 35:42
  Would mimic that kind of baseline flatness that I knew
• 35:45
  that I didn't want. So yeah, I didn't see a problem
• 35:49
  with what I was doing because my belief system was so warped that
• 35:52
  I tell there's an element of pride even going to prison.
• 35:54
  I was like, Oh yeah, people are going to know and talk about me.
• 35:56
  Lewis has gone to prison. I kind of like that.
• 35:58
  It's weird. I and I look back at it now, I
• 36:00
  have a complete different belief system where I don't think that
• 36:03
  way before. But at the time, I remember, you
• 36:05
  know, not really almost being quite excited to go back and be
• 36:11
  like, oh, I'm going to jail for a couple of years this time.
• 36:12
  And, you know, cool, I'm going to tell everyone I was there for
• 36:15
  GBH this time. And new chapter, you know,
• 36:20
  that's that's how I saw it. But there was a moment where I
• 36:24
  had my realizations. It wasn't from a rock bottom.
• 36:28
  You know, I would have liked. I would like to say it came from
• 36:32
  hurting this guy. The truth is I hit him.
• 36:34
  He hit his ground on the floor. He hit his head on the ground
• 36:37
  and he was in a coma for three days.
• 36:39
  And yeah, I would like to say that that was the to my rock
• 36:43
  bottom, but it just wouldn't be the truth.
• 36:46
  You know, I didn't see that as my rock bottom.
• 36:49
  I didn't feel. I didn't to me, I didn't know
• 36:51
  him. I didn't I didn't have any
• 36:53
  ability to understand or empathize with him.
• 36:57
  I kind of felt wrapped like just in my actions, to be honest,
• 37:00
  because he shouted at me in a taxi coup.
• 37:03
  So my response was, if I'm being honest, probably deserved it.
• 37:09
  That's how how brutal I was. And the thing I regretted the
• 37:13
  most was the fact that I got caught because I was right in
• 37:15
  front of a camera. So I just looked up at the
• 37:18
  camera and I saw it. And then I just thought, OK, I'm
• 37:20
  going to prison because I thought I'd killed him at the
• 37:22
  time because he went face down and he went face down and he was
• 37:26
  passed out and his face on the ground.
• 37:27
  And then this big slow, dark trickle of blood come out of his
• 37:30
  head. And I thought, OK, I'm going to
• 37:32
  go to jail. So I have to wait and put my
• 37:33
  hands up and put my coat over him.
• 37:35
  You didn't think that's a life, that someone's partner,
• 37:39
  someone's I mean, how old was the man?
• 37:42
  He he was actually. So this is something that sounds
• 37:45
  even worse. I was 25 at the time and I
• 37:48
  didn't know, but he was 40, which now we know that isn't
• 37:52
  actually that old. But at the time when I heard
• 37:55
  that, I was thinking, wow, he's significantly older for like
• 37:57
  I've hit an old man. Like I didn't know at the time
• 38:02
  if I'm too, if I'm see, this is what I don't want to do.
• 38:04
  I don't want to minimize or justify my actions, but I do
• 38:06
  want to explain the rationale. So one of the things that did
• 38:09
  happen that night, which was unusual to other nights, is I
• 38:12
  was very triggered. So my dad used to call me
• 38:15
  buffoon, tell me it never amount to anything He would hit me.
• 38:18
  And that's been a big factor in kind of this anger that I have
• 38:25
  and this violence. I think there's this nature and
• 38:28
  nurture debate. Are you born a psychopath?
• 38:29
  Do you create a psychopath? And the argument usually falls
• 38:32
  in between these. It's got a bit of both.
• 38:33
  It's like you have this predisposition to it and then
• 38:36
  through your environment, you can, it can be exaggerated or it
• 38:39
  can be brought out. It's.
• 38:40
  Correct. What you're saying there's a
• 38:41
  predisposition, but that doesn't mean it's predetermined.
• 38:44
  And therefore, because you're predisposed and if you have been
• 38:46
  in these situations and done that, you can reverse it as well
• 38:50
  if you're determined to do so, which?
• 38:52
  Or manage it I. Mean have you reached out to to
• 38:55
  the men to apologize or you're? Able to, yeah.
• 38:57
  I mean, I tried to do restorative justice and things,
• 38:59
  but he didn't, he didn't want to participate in that and.
• 39:02
  But you tried it good. Yeah, and there's a lot of
• 39:04
  cognitive. I understand that's wrong.
• 39:07
  And yeah, I wish that never had happened to him, but at the time
• 39:12
  I just didn't know what that felt like.
• 39:15
  OK, so how do you so you, you apologized to him and you wanted
• 39:19
  to rehabilitate yourself. So what was that like?
• 39:22
  What what steps did you take? Well, to be honest, to work on
• 39:24
  yourself, like I said, that wasn't the turning point for me.
• 39:26
  So that just happened. My, my immediate reaction was
• 39:28
  more, OK, I'm going to jail. So I went to so I went, I got
• 39:32
  sentenced to prison for I would have got three years, but they
• 39:34
  gave me 18 months for pleading guilty at the scene.
• 39:38
  And then I, it was when I went to prison, I rang up my friends
• 39:44
  and I was kind of saying, what are people saying about me?
• 39:46
  And then I was on the paper, violent and boorish paralytic
• 39:51
  man tax in Taxi Q and all this sort of stuff.
• 39:54
  And I was like, OK, cool, whatever.
• 39:57
  And then and then they said, I'll be your friend as posted a
• 40:01
  picture of you the day you were sentenced.
• 40:04
  And there's a picture out of me outside the courtroom.
• 40:07
  And then there was a picture of me outside the exact same
• 40:09
  courtroom 7 years before when I'd been to jail another time.
• 40:12
  And but he'd written up at the, at the top, nothing changes as
• 40:15
  the caption. And it's strange because loads
• 40:19
  of people had told me things in the past and I kind of brushed
• 40:21
  it off because again, I was like, I'm not listening to them
• 40:23
  because it came from my friend. I was kind of, it just hit me
• 40:26
  and I was like, what? What does he mean?
• 40:28
  Because he was just as bad as me.
• 40:31
  But he because because he said that I kind of listened because
• 40:33
  it was my friend. And I thought, what does he mean
• 40:35
  when nothing changes? And then I kind of actually just
• 40:38
  realized I actually seven years before, I'm in the same prison,
• 40:43
  like, well, the same courtroom, different prison, but I'm in
• 40:46
  back in a cell. And I realized that if nothing,
• 40:50
  there's a saying that I've picked up since if nothing
• 40:52
  changes, nothing changes. And I did realize that I was
• 40:55
  doing the same things as another saying, but I've, I've picked up
• 40:58
  some vocabulary to explain these situations.
• 41:00
  But if you keep doing the same things over and over again,
• 41:02
  you're going to get the same result.
• 41:05
  And that's the definition of insanity.
• 41:07
  And I realized, yeah, that I couldn't keep doing it.
• 41:10
  So it was more of a selfish, I don't want to go back to prison.
• 41:12
  Well, yeah, you'd be there again.
• 41:14
  Yeah. So you didn't.
• 41:15
  So then, ha ha. You realize actually I, I do
• 41:18
  want to be the guy that's on the outside and not the guy that's
• 41:20
  in the car going to prison. Yeah.
• 41:22
  All the time, yeah. Because I was a bit older now
• 41:24
  and, you know, yeah, I was I I kind of got the realization that
• 41:28
  this isn't what I want to do for the rest of my life.
• 41:30
  So. But it wasn't the full
• 41:31
  realization. So that was the the penny drop.
• 41:34
  Oh, OK. And then my story sounds like
• 41:38
  something you would write in a very fictional book.
• 41:40
  But I went back to my cell and I looked in in the mirror and we
• 41:44
  don't have mirrors. We just have these scratched off
• 41:45
  pieces of metal. You can barely even see
• 41:48
  yourself. It's just these mirrors can be
• 41:50
  used as like blades or whatever. So I just about caught my
• 41:55
  reflection and as cheesy as it sounds, I kind of saw myself for
• 41:59
  the first time. I was like.
• 42:02
  And I realized in that moment that I, how was the problem
• 42:06
  because I, I, I didn't see myself as the problem and I
• 42:08
  didn't even see there being a problem what I was doing really.
• 42:11
  But I realized, OK, nothing's changed.
• 42:13
  So I do need to do something different.
• 42:15
  And why does this keep happening?
• 42:17
  How, how come I keep on ending up back in jail?
• 42:20
  And I realized that I was refusing to accept
• 42:22
  responsibility for myself and blaming everything and everyone
• 42:24
  around me and being like, oh, just the way things are.
• 42:26
  No one must tell me. It's always going to be like
• 42:27
  this using that, that story. But I realized, no, I'm the
• 42:30
  problem. I'm also the solution.
• 42:33
  And in that moment, I kind of got this exaggerated idea of
• 42:38
  what change in my life could be like.
• 42:39
  So I thought I could change my name, I could move country, I
• 42:42
  could be this different. I could reinvent myself and, and
• 42:45
  I kind of like the idea of the other extreme because I I was
• 42:49
  addicted to extremities. I hated the idea of normality,
• 42:53
  but I was taking the easy route of crime and chaos.
• 42:57
  But I read it. Oh, I could also go for this
• 43:00
  other end, which is a really like amazing life.
• 43:03
  Painted to me. What is this other end?
• 43:04
  What does it look like? Well, at that time, I was
• 43:07
  thinking kind of still a little bit warped.
• 43:09
  So I was kind of thinking more, I could change my name and I
• 43:12
  could pretend I came from a different background and I could
• 43:14
  just, you know, make up this story of who I was and just
• 43:16
  start all over. And it was kind of like a bit of
• 43:19
  a dream, like a fantasy of all this, you know, And then it
• 43:23
  started. But then at the moment I
• 43:25
  realized that I could change and I wanted to change and my whole
• 43:28
  viewpoint changed to the point where everything that I saw was
• 43:30
  different. So we talked a lot about in the
• 43:33
  coaching training when we have these filters in our brain that
• 43:35
  delete, distort and generalize information.
• 43:38
  So before I was like, I don't want anyone's help.
• 43:40
  There's no one wants to help me. I'm happy what I'm doing.
• 43:42
  I'm not the problem. And I was just seeing specific
• 43:45
  things that reinforced that message.
• 43:47
  But the moment I decided I wanted to change, I was like,
• 43:49
  oh, there's and English programs, I could do that.
• 43:52
  Oh, this rehabilitation program, I could sign up for that.
• 43:54
  Or we could go to the gym. And they're just everywhere.
• 43:57
  Just support everywhere. All these resources.
• 43:59
  There the time. We opened up.
• 44:01
  Yeah, and I just started doing. It my God, it's like you've had
• 44:03
  to discover the world again. And then it's almost like the
• 44:07
  computer games. You know you play computer games
• 44:09
  before where like another world opens up to you.
• 44:11
  And well, actually I haven't played computer games, but I
• 44:13
  know what you mean. Yeah, you kind of go around and
• 44:15
  you'll have like, depending on the level you'll have, you'll
• 44:17
  operate in one world and then you can go to another level and
• 44:20
  then it's a completely different and it's like you have
• 44:22
  reinvented yourself. But that's, yeah, it's almost
• 44:26
  like you had to take yourself maybe because of your
• 44:28
  upbringing, because I can't even imagine what it's like not to
• 44:31
  feel loved, you know, by your parents.
• 44:33
  So that's living awful. And for someone to say.
• 44:36
  Like a little person like that. Those realizations that I had,
• 44:39
  it took me 25 years to have them, but usually you'd have a
• 44:41
  parent telling you every. Week that's I think rubbish
• 44:44
  parents are just so bad for society like when they don't
• 44:49
  know but then again as well like thank God that you came to that
• 44:53
  realization because although you had a rubbish childhood, that
• 44:56
  doesn't mean you've got to have a rubbish adulthood.
• 44:59
  You know, and you can definitely turn around and you have.
• 45:04
  Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, everything was stacked against
• 45:06
  me in terms of the ability. To change because.
• 45:08
  Psychopathy, which isn't, you know, like we'll go into it,
• 45:11
  isn't a diagnose. It's not in the DSM, the
• 45:14
  diagnostic manual. You can't actually be a diagnose
• 45:16
  psychopath. It's a label that people put on
• 45:20
  the extreme end of the spectrum of people that have an
• 45:22
  antisocial personality disorder. And that's what I was diagnosed
• 45:25
  with. So when I went for that pre
• 45:26
  sentence report, they'd give me a psychiatric assessment and
• 45:28
  they'd diagnose me with that. I didn't think much of it, but
• 45:33
  yeah, later on in life I realize.
• 45:35
  All. And it's significant and it
• 45:36
  affects your, your behaviour. Yeah.
• 45:38
  It affects the way that you rationalize everything, you
• 45:40
  know, everything. But what I was going to say is
• 45:42
  that is actually uncurable. So there's no cure for it.
• 45:46
  It's you can only learn to manage it.
• 45:49
  Even the personality disorder, not even psychopathy, the
• 45:51
  personality disorder, there is no no proven cure whatsoever.
• 45:55
  There's no tablet you can take. There's no tablet, there's no
• 45:57
  therapy, there's no nothing. I mean, I'm proof that you can
• 45:59
  manage it and you can very much use it to your advantage, but
• 46:04
  there's but there's nothing so far that says that you can just
• 46:07
  reverse it. Let's just be completely frank
• 46:10
  here. So out of all the people
• 46:12
  watching, OK, then when I'm going to post this, people are
• 46:15
  going to watch guaranteed there's going to be people with
• 46:18
  serious like they're going to have personality problems.
• 46:21
  They're going to be awkward, weird, maybe not empathetic,
• 46:25
  maybe they're horrible, maybe they overly shy.
• 46:28
  They are 100. No one watching is going to have
• 46:31
  this perfect personality. So everyone watching 100% will
• 46:36
  benefit from the fact that you've been honest about it said
• 46:38
  I have this thing in my personality, I recognize it as a
• 46:42
  actual problem and I'm going to actually do something about it.
• 46:45
  That is power. Like that's genuinely something
• 46:49
  everyone can take. And the reason I've got you on
• 46:51
  you've, you have transformed your life.
• 46:53
  You have done horrible things and you know that you
• 46:56
  unfortunately, you're going to have to live with that and you
• 47:00
  want to be better. You have apologized, you want to
• 47:03
  improve your life. And you've since then taken it.
• 47:06
  You've built a business, which is a blaming hard thing to do
• 47:09
  for anyone like, and you've taken it to really good levels.
• 47:13
  Like you're doing very, very well and you've got the Netflix
• 47:16
  documentary. So how do you think that your
• 47:18
  personality is? And, and you know, the, the, the
• 47:22
  personality disorder has actually helped you to build.
• 47:28
  A successful business, if I was to summarize it in a really
• 47:32
  cheesy, cliche way, it's just focusing on what you do have
• 47:36
  rather than what you don't. And because, for example, if a,
• 47:41
  a deaf, a deaf person can probably see better and someone
• 47:47
  that's blind can hear better, you adapt, you evolve and you
• 47:49
  compensate. So because I'm less emotionally
• 47:53
  reactive, I become more cognitively aware.
• 47:57
  So I feel like I have an advantage strategically because
• 48:00
  my brain has had to evolve and adapt to be able to navigate.
• 48:04
  So there's I see everything like a map, like a visual
• 48:08
  representation. Give me some examples.
• 48:09
  So like you, you, you, you want to get a client?
• 48:13
  Yeah. What's going through your?
• 48:14
  Head So I, I will see like client and then I'll see every
• 48:17
  step from where I am now or where I was or whoever it is.
• 48:21
  And it can be anyone. And I and I'll gather
• 48:23
  information and it will just come in, come into a map and
• 48:26
  I'll see every step of exactly how to do it.
• 48:30
  And I can see it right there in front of me and I can move the
• 48:32
  bits around and I get extra information.
• 48:34
  All fits into the puzzle and then but The thing is there are
• 48:36
  some people that have that so there are some people that
• 48:38
  strategic that get things that some people that don't.
• 48:41
  So if you don't you're you got to learn it right but some
• 48:43
  people just get it. They don't need to learn.
• 48:45
  Like I haven't really learned. I just get it.
• 48:47
  But then, but then some people have that.
• 48:50
  But then what they don't have is the ability to bypass the
• 48:53
  emotions that are going to hold them back.
• 48:54
  Because a lot of people know what they need to do, but they
• 48:57
  don't do what they know. So they have a strategy, they
• 48:59
  have a plan, but the the fear, the insecurity, the.
• 49:02
  Doubt. Massive of every step of the
• 49:04
  journey just holds them back or makes them take 10 times as
• 49:07
  long. Even should I post?
• 49:08
  Shouldn't I post or people are going to say this and that about
• 49:10
  me? Yeah.
• 49:11
  And that to me fear it, to give you an example of kind of the
• 49:13
  way that my brain works, it's so absent those types of feelings.
• 49:18
  I find it absolutely bizarre. Like I just, I look at people
• 49:22
  sometimes and I'm literally just like I'm looking at an alien.
• 49:25
  Like when they're, when they're crying or stressing or they're
• 49:27
  anxious or they're in panic attacks or they're.
• 49:29
  And I. Get anxious?
• 49:31
  I understand. I don't think I'm an.
• 49:34
  Alien No, I don't mind it when it's I don't.
• 49:36
  I I can understand it cognitively and I can understand
• 49:40
  it when it's something significant, like if it's a big
• 49:42
  deal. But what I really don't get is
• 49:44
  when people create these scenarios that actually not even
• 49:47
  drama, but they just create a scenario that doesn't exist,
• 49:50
  What if this happens? And then.
• 49:51
  Yeah, I do that. Yeah, I do.
• 49:52
  Yeah. And I just think, well, that's
• 49:53
  never going to happen. And, you know, well, you don't,
• 49:55
  you know, that's the problem. How do you know?
• 49:57
  Well, because it has happened before.
• 49:58
  It might do. Well, it might do, but it might
• 50:00
  not. And that's what I tend to think
• 50:02
  about. You know, I think about
• 50:03
  logically what is actually going to happen, not what because of
• 50:06
  what happens is you have an emotion that causes a reaction
• 50:08
  and that causes you to think and then the thinking creates your
• 50:11
  behaving, the behavior creates your results, Yes, but I don't
• 50:14
  have the emotional response. So I just get what is the
• 50:16
  logical outcome here, not some emotional reaction that creates
• 50:22
  OK the wrong logical. Conclusion Would you like to get
• 50:25
  into my head for a minute? So what you just said, I am the
• 50:28
  complete opposite to you. So I will think of one scenario.
• 50:32
  I will think about literally about 10:15 things that can
• 50:35
  potentially happen so that I can be prepared for every single one
• 50:38
  of those. And some of them will make me
• 50:40
  very anxious, some of them less so, but I can't help it.
• 50:44
  So I will really think about everything and probably will
• 50:48
  never materialize, but I will analyze it to the NTH degree.
• 50:51
  And I will have all of those thoughts all at the same time,
• 50:54
  all in my head and sometimes like, but I will have them.
• 50:58
  And it's made me good in some ways, but it's definitely held
• 51:01
  me back for sure. It's given me too much anxiety,
• 51:03
  definitely. But I see life like a chess
• 51:06
  board. So when I and I love chess and
• 51:08
  I'm pretty good at chess, but I will, I see moves, many moves
• 51:12
  ahead of what might or might not transpire.
• 51:14
  So that's how I think. Yeah, so you've got 2.
• 51:16
  You've got one piece of the in my mind, my advantage, you've
• 51:20
  got only one piece. Yeah, you've got the strategic
• 51:22
  chess playing, but now you're. Competing with me.
• 51:24
  But no. But what I'm saying is my
• 51:26
  advantage. You have your Yeah, Yeah, you
• 51:28
  would say because you can use your advantages to strengths
• 51:30
  like empathy. It allows me to deeply
• 51:32
  understand and connect with people.
• 51:33
  And to know. And build relationships so so
• 51:36
  you have your own strengths. But for me, I just have a
• 51:39
  strategic plan and steps and nothing I think about other than
• 51:42
  just taking that step and that step and that step and I just
• 51:45
  take every single one and I get right to the top very quick.
• 51:48
  And you get to 25,000,000 so you know what you're.
• 51:50
  Talking about that's everything I want to do and also I can
• 51:53
  depart and I can departmentalize as well.
• 51:55
  So if I've got a meet. So you're you're thinking of a
• 51:59
  load of things that aren't going to happen, but also there's
• 52:02
  obviously. Some do.
• 52:03
  If you've got a load of things, some do, yeah.
• 52:06
  And also, I would, even if they happen, I don't care about it.
• 52:09
  You know, it's like I don't have a I'm just like, if that
• 52:12
  happens, so you know, So what? It's not I'm not competing, I'm
• 52:16
  just trying to give you a. Perspective.
• 52:17
  OK, No, no, it's. Because I learned, let's
• 52:20
  compete. Because I learned, because I
• 52:21
  because I'll be like, I'll either learn from it or I'll get
• 52:23
  through it or whatever. You know, it is what it is.
• 52:26
  So I forget exactly where we were.
• 52:29
  No, no, let me OK, no, no, let me just say so, so my USP then
• 52:32
  so yes. And and my thing is the caring.
• 52:36
  So I care so deeply that that's what makes me good.
• 52:39
  Otherwise I wouldn't be able if I don't care emotionally about
• 52:43
  making something really good and amazing for myself, my client,
• 52:47
  If I don't, I can't pretend like there's no pretending.
• 52:50
  I can't. Like I can't fake it.
• 52:52
  I have to. I am completely and utterly
• 52:54
  driven by emotion. It's weird because it's the
• 52:57
  complete. Yeah, I would say there's two
• 52:59
  parts of that. One part is to be honored and
• 53:01
  owned and be like, yes, I do care.
• 53:03
  But then you gotta be careful not to let that blur the lines
• 53:05
  into justifying kind of all these other things at totally,
• 53:08
  because they aren't. They ought to do it with people
• 53:10
  like you're caring actually about yourself because it's the
• 53:12
  outcomes that you're scared about that you're thinking
• 53:14
  about. Well, it's also the outcomes for
• 53:15
  my clients, because if they don't succeed, I don't succeed.
• 53:18
  So you're telling me that we're together in the same team?
• 53:20
  This this anxiety that you feel around all these million things
• 53:23
  at once? Yeah, it's partly your clients.
• 53:26
  I should imagine all areas of your life.
• 53:28
  I'm afraid that's how it is. So I yes.
• 53:33
  So even if I wake up at night, so, so if I'm waking up at
• 53:37
  night, it is, it could be, it's could be a client thing and I'm
• 53:42
  worrying about their business. But I'm, I'm worrying because
• 53:45
  I'm responsible for things and I'm, I will worry that if I
• 53:50
  don't get it right for them, yes, then also it's not right
• 53:53
  for me, but I, I will, yeah, yeah, I will.
• 53:55
  I will worry about that. I will really worry.
• 53:57
  About it because again, literally, I don't want this to
• 53:59
  be like the empath psychopath. No, but, but in a way we we seem
• 54:03
  in a way. Yeah, I understand we're driven
• 54:05
  from the same place as wanting the outcome, but like in a very
• 54:07
  narcissistic, arrogant, grandiose place, I just know
• 54:11
  I'll get the result, so I don't care.
• 54:14
  Hey I get the results. Yeah, I'm sure you do.
• 54:18
  I'm not see, but you're. Taking the results.
• 54:20
  You're taking what I say as a as some form of attack on you.
• 54:28
  No, I'm not. I love it.
• 54:29
  I'll tell you what I'm not. I literally see I see my my
• 54:35
  shortfalls in you like I actually do.
• 54:38
  So I love this. I think it's it's really good
• 54:41
  because I feel that emotion fear also too much worry burns you
• 54:46
  out. You're not going to get I
• 54:48
  listen, I know like completely am I totally aware of my the bad
• 54:52
  things, like the things that aren't going to push me forward
• 54:55
  and I can see that having a cool head and strategically going
• 54:59
  forward and blocking out the noise is even this like I don't
• 55:02
  even if it's a parable or if it's one of those little stories
• 55:05
  about this guy who's trying to get to the top of the mountain
• 55:08
  and loads have tried before him, but they failed because when
• 55:12
  they've looked at these things that try and distract them,
• 55:15
  these creatures or gremlins and you turn to stone and you become
• 55:18
  one of them. I don't know if you've heard
• 55:20
  that story and you've just got to like.
• 55:22
  Well, using that same story though, I'll tell you why.
• 55:24
  I will flip it back so you don't feel so attacked by it.
• 55:27
  It's not. You asked me to explain the
• 55:29
  advantages, but there's huge disadvantages to it.
• 55:32
  So I can climb that mountain for the rest of my life and I will
• 55:35
  never care that I've got to the top because I just keep putting
• 55:39
  more snow on top, you know? You're going to want the next
• 55:41
  thrill I'm. Going to want the next thrill
• 55:43
  yeah. So I so when when you get a good
• 55:44
  result for a client and they say Oh my God, I'm so happy that's
• 55:48
  like your reward. You must be so.
• 55:50
  OK, can I explain to you? Yeah, Can I?
• 55:53
  So this is also the way things so I, I, I am never.
• 55:59
  I think we, we spoke about this before.
• 56:01
  I will never take a compliment or a an insult ever too
• 56:07
  seriously. So I'm always remaining neutral
• 56:10
  on it. So it never really, I don't
• 56:13
  really something. I don't believe it.
• 56:14
  I'll be like, yeah, you've said that great.
• 56:16
  But it doesn't affect me in that way.
• 56:18
  So I'm never satisfied, but in a different way to you, because I
• 56:21
  always feel like it's not good enough.
• 56:23
  It's still not something could go wrong, you see, something
• 56:26
  could go wrong. Maybe, you know, so I'm I'm
• 56:29
  never ever, but I'm also not like like totally destroyed by,
• 56:34
  you know, I'm not like it just works out.
• 56:36
  You know, it's the same with trolling or compliment.
• 56:39
  If someone's oh, you're this or that or good or bad, they will
• 56:42
  neutralize each other in the end.
• 56:44
  I feel like I'm quite grounded in that way.
• 56:46
  So I don't need it. I don't need the verification of
• 56:49
  it, but it never really gives me that ultimate high.
• 56:53
  What you're saying? Well, yeah, because what?
• 56:55
  What? I'm just going to make it just a
• 56:56
  wild assumption because it's OK just to question, but it sounds
• 57:01
  like you're a bit of a perfectionist that can sometimes
• 57:04
  manifest itself from from low self worth.
• 57:07
  And it can be, I assume that other people are going to treat
• 57:11
  me like this because that's actually how I feel about
• 57:13
  myself. And the problem is because the,
• 57:15
  the, the negative comments can feel that that's the worst thing
• 57:19
  a perfectionist can hear because that's the last thing they ever
• 57:21
  want to hear is that they've done something bad or wrong.
• 57:23
  So sometimes you can create a defence that blocks you from at
• 57:27
  feeling that that that feedback like so I don't care what haters
• 57:30
  say. Actually, you do, you do.
• 57:33
  But you want to tell yourself I don't because that keeps you
• 57:36
  safe and keeps you from feeling the immense pain that you know
• 57:39
  that you put on yourself. The problem is if you shut off
• 57:42
  that part, you shut off the opposite part.
• 57:44
  So if you say I'm not going to care what haters think, you're
• 57:46
  basically saying I don't care about opinions and you put this
• 57:49
  block up. That will also stop you from
• 57:50
  feeling the praise and the gratitude from when you do get
• 57:52
  it right. You just become neutral.
• 57:55
  Yeah, that's interesting. It's are you possibly on to
• 57:57
  something? I would say that it doesn't come
• 57:58
  from low self worth because I've always had good, I mean our
• 58:01
  decent self worth. I've always believed in myself.
• 58:03
  I don't, I haven't had low self. I'm a pretty confident person.
• 58:07
  So I wouldn't say that, but I hear you.
• 58:10
  So I hear you. If you don't have low self
• 58:12
  worth, why would you question everything that you do?
• 58:14
  I question the good and the bad because I always think like I
• 58:19
  always think so many other things can happen.
• 58:23
  You just nothing is fixed in time.
• 58:26
  Nothing stays the same, nothing is guaranteed.
• 58:29
  It's ever evolving and you have to work to stay on top because
• 58:34
  you can fall off at any second and.
• 58:37
  When you said that, you said you can fall off at any second.
• 58:39
  Yeah. Are you talking about me?
• 58:41
  Everyone, life. It's not.
• 58:44
  I'm not. It's not only me, it's
• 58:46
  everybody. So it is you, so you could fall
• 58:47
  off any second. Everyone and me, I'm not immune
• 58:50
  to falling off from. You have to keep working.
• 58:53
  You have to keep. Yeah.
• 58:55
  Try it with. I see how that feels.
• 58:58
  I have to keep working. Yeah, all those things you're
• 59:00
  coaching. Me.
• 59:01
  Just try it with I and see how it feels.
• 59:04
  Who's doing the interview? Both of us it's.
• 59:07
  A conversation. No, no, we're not.
• 59:08
  I'm doing the interview. I'm doing the interview.
• 59:11
  But I appreciate that. I, I, you know, we approach it
• 59:15
  from different ways, but like I told you, I totally understand
• 59:19
  the merit and I do work in many ways to be a little bit like you
• 59:26
  in the sense that try and block out the unnecessary noise.
• 59:31
  I would call it those statues and go and just go because it it
• 59:36
  wastes energy because you're just getting and you sometimes
• 59:40
  just got to run that race and finish, you know, get it done,
• 59:44
  lick wounds if you need to, whatever electrolyte drink,
• 59:48
  whatever it might be, and then go again and go again.
• 59:51
  Repeat, repeat, repeat. But it never ends.
• 59:54
  That's the thing. So why aren't you happy with?
• 59:58
  Like what? What about you getting to that?
• 1:00:01
  Pedestal Netflix is net. Are you?
• 1:00:03
  You're not celebrating, you're not happy.
• 1:00:06
  To be honest, I'm, I'm very aware that I know that it's,
• 1:00:10
  it's not my ultimate desire. I know that my longing become
• 1:00:14
  comes from actually wanting to feel loved and that I've
• 1:00:17
  substituted that for a, a, a quest for significance and fame
• 1:00:21
  and success. And but I know that it's wrong
• 1:00:24
  because I'm, I'm too aware to know that that's just bullshit,
• 1:00:28
  right? Yeah, but I kind of keep the
• 1:00:32
  program playing in my own brain consciously knowing that it's
• 1:00:35
  serving me. So it's it's my life's still
• 1:00:41
  better. It's better than it was before.
• 1:00:43
  So I'm not going to say I don't want to be successful.
• 1:00:45
  I know that ultimately it's not going to be my destination.
• 1:00:47
  It's not going to give me what I need.
• 1:00:49
  But my subconscious thinks that it does at the moment.
• 1:00:52
  So I kind of let that program play out for a little bit longer
• 1:00:54
  until I have more things that I want.
• 1:00:56
  And then I'll probably try and break it down even further
• 1:00:59
  because sometimes you can turn something off and it can affect
• 1:01:03
  your results or the directory of your life.
• 1:01:05
  And right now, it's moving in a good direction.
• 1:01:07
  I know where you are, I. Won't lead.
• 1:01:09
  Yeah, I like where I am. I like where I'm going and it's
• 1:01:11
  moving in the right direction, but not the exact destination.
• 1:01:16
  And I know that if I can just move myself forward for now, I
• 1:01:20
  know that I'd better recalibrate at a later stage to give me
• 1:01:23
  some. OK, so you've set your sails.
• 1:01:25
  I like the way. So you, you are literally doing
• 1:01:27
  what you said that you do and you've got your plan and there
• 1:01:29
  is a destination and you just like almost like it's almost
• 1:01:32
  like to. Be honest, I don't know what the
• 1:01:33
  ultimate destination is because I know that I want to feel loved
• 1:01:37
  and fulfilled and I I know every every layer of success I've
• 1:01:42
  achieved. It reconfirms to me more so that
• 1:01:45
  I'm not going to get what I want from it, but it's still good to
• 1:01:49
  have. So I don't know if I'll ever be
• 1:01:54
  able to really, truly feel love. I'm going, I'm working on it.
• 1:01:57
  I've done lots of deep work, lots of plant medicine, lots of
• 1:02:02
  healers, lots of crazy things, you know, all sorts of different
• 1:02:05
  therapies. And it flickers every now and
• 1:02:07
  again. And I do some like breath work
• 1:02:09
  or some mushrooms in the jungle and.
• 1:02:12
  Mushrooms in the jungle? Yeah, come.
• 1:02:15
  On I've done, yeah, I've done a few different plant medicines
• 1:02:18
  from peyote to Bufo, which is like frog poison and it sends
• 1:02:22
  you to the outer space in terms of.
• 1:02:24
  But because I'm, I'm on a quest to heal, you know, if I can, if
• 1:02:28
  I could be the first person to cure psychopathy, then
• 1:02:32
  brilliant. Let's talk about this.
• 1:02:33
  Let's talk about the way that you've been educating yourself.
• 1:02:36
  It's a really important part and I want to I want to go into this
• 1:02:39
  and you were correcting. Let's just have a look.
• 1:02:42
  Let's go back to slide one, right?
• 1:02:46
  Education. You didn't pursue APHD, You've
• 1:02:49
  got it. Yeah, I've got 1.
• 1:02:51
  Thank you. Yeah, that's right.
• 1:02:53
  That's right. And you really, you really want
• 1:02:56
  to educate yourself. Like that's just such a you want
• 1:02:58
  to grow all the time, you want to read books, you want to do
• 1:03:00
  all these things. So talk to me about why
• 1:03:03
  education is so important to you and how is it different to
• 1:03:06
  traditional education? Yeah, I mean, this is a
• 1:03:10
  difficult 1 to unpack, but I think nowadays the reason why I
• 1:03:13
  crave it is because it gives me stimulation, which is like a
• 1:03:17
  sensation that it's not a feeling, but it's something
• 1:03:19
  close to it, you know? So when I keep myself busy and
• 1:03:22
  stimulated and learning and growing it well.
• 1:03:24
  Like reading all these books and studying is stimulating to you.
• 1:03:26
  You are definitely different. OK.
• 1:03:27
  Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
• 1:03:29
  And without it, I just feel. No, that's, that's cool.
• 1:03:31
  You know, so I want to, I actually, you know, for example,
• 1:03:35
  a lot of people try and create work life balance and they try
• 1:03:37
  for me, I'm the opposite. I put on work when I, when I
• 1:03:40
  feel things are like not chaos, I'm like, I need more.
• 1:03:43
  I need to feel, I almost want to feel that cortisol in my, in my
• 1:03:47
  bloodstream. I want to feel stressed.
• 1:03:49
  I, I want to have that kind of, you know, fight or flight.
• 1:03:52
  Let's get shit done. Actually, in that way, we have
• 1:03:54
  something again in common. I like, I hate stress, but I
• 1:03:57
  like, I'm addicted to, to stress.
• 1:03:59
  That's why I do stressful things.
• 1:04:01
  Yeah, me too. And it's just I think you'll
• 1:04:03
  have a craving of of feeling something if because feeling
• 1:04:06
  nothing is not nice. Trust me.
• 1:04:08
  It's a feeling of emptiness, hollowness, flatness, numbness,
• 1:04:12
  pointlessness. But why?
• 1:04:13
  Can't you just go for a walk in nature and like look at the nice
• 1:04:16
  greenery and watch the wind blowing through the trees and
• 1:04:19
  because. It means absolutely nothing to
• 1:04:20
  me, no. It's not nothing.
• 1:04:21
  Go and smell a flower. Look, it's a rose.
• 1:04:23
  It's got scent, you know, look at animals.
• 1:04:26
  A fox. That's lovely.
• 1:04:28
  It's. Nice, it's the sun on your skin.
• 1:04:31
  I mean, I get it. Can't.
• 1:04:31
  You just sort of, I get it. Just about I mean, I have to
• 1:04:33
  travel the world and go to some really beautiful places to just
• 1:04:36
  about go, but it's not it's not a profound.
• 1:04:41
  English countryside Sit in a countryside grass savvy, smelled
• 1:04:46
  grass. It's nice, it's sweet.
• 1:04:48
  It's like soft. It's grass, No?
• 1:04:52
  Just grass, unfortunately, in my brain.
• 1:04:54
  That's the problem with my body. I mean, I would love to feel
• 1:04:56
  like that. Do you know what my if I could
• 1:05:00
  swap everything that I have, that's difficult because it's
• 1:05:02
  like there's battle there. But I think deep down, if I was
• 1:05:05
  to be able to swap everything I have for just a normal life
• 1:05:09
  where I'm just fulfilled and I wake up and like, yeah,
• 1:05:12
  everything's good, you know, I'm happy.
• 1:05:15
  I would I. Don't think anyone can do that.
• 1:05:19
  I don't. I don't think anyone.
• 1:05:20
  Well, there are there. I know a lot of people that have
• 1:05:22
  nothing, but they're happy. Yeah, no, they have nothing.
• 1:05:25
  They might be very you mean money wise poverty.
• 1:05:28
  Yes, some of them, even some of them I've seen.
• 1:05:31
  I've seen. I went to Uganda and and and
• 1:05:33
  like fed kids that were on the street and built little houses
• 1:05:36
  for them and stuff. And I'm telling you, them kids,
• 1:05:39
  they're running around and they. Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's,
• 1:05:41
  that's different. I think that, yeah, actually a
• 1:05:43
  lot of the people, when they have less as well, it's like
• 1:05:47
  life is less complicated and you you don't have these sort of
• 1:05:50
  mental health, I would say issues as, as well as in the
• 1:05:53
  modern world. I think in some ways we bring
• 1:05:55
  it, we bring ourselves into the stressful situations.
• 1:05:58
  Whereas when you're forced to think about the essentials of
• 1:06:01
  life, go and get water, you know, make sure that that
• 1:06:04
  water's reasonably clean because you want to not die from
• 1:06:07
  drinking and go and milk the cow and go and do this.
• 1:06:10
  And you're let's cut the wood to keep, you're so busy.
• 1:06:12
  It's like you were saying you're busy.
• 1:06:14
  You don't have time to think about all these other things.
• 1:06:17
  You're living gratitude. Can get missed when you're out
• 1:06:19
  of perspective, you know? They have the perspective of the
• 1:06:22
  simple things that bring life, you know?
• 1:06:24
  And they're smiling and yeah, there is a bit of distortion, I
• 1:06:28
  think for us that. But I also think that life,
• 1:06:33
  yeah, it, it can, we can get corrupted in in ways, I mean.
• 1:06:37
  I can't even remember. The question.
• 1:06:39
  Education, right. Education.
• 1:06:40
  Yeah. So I was spelled from school at
• 1:06:42
  15 and I in, in I signed up to maths and English in prison,
• 1:06:48
  functional skills level 1. And two you did.
• 1:06:50
  And this was, it was actually just because they paid well.
• 1:06:53
  It was also because I wanted to work on myself.
• 1:06:55
  But you could get, I think it was £11.00 a week if you did an
• 1:06:59
  education they paid you or 10 LB if you worked like mopping the
• 1:07:03
  floor. So I was like, I get an extra
• 1:07:04
  pound, I get an extra pound and OK, OK, let's work on myself.
• 1:07:09
  And but when I first went in there, I didn't look at the
• 1:07:12
  board. I screwed the paper up and I
• 1:07:14
  threw it and I said, I'm not doing this shit at 25 years old.
• 1:07:16
  And it was just, it's just crazy when I think back on it.
• 1:07:18
  But I was just so defiant and a prison shooter.
• 1:07:22
  Sweet old lady Susie sat down next to me and she just said,
• 1:07:25
  what's the matter? And I don't think anyone ever
• 1:07:27
  asked me that before. And I just blurted out.
• 1:07:29
  I don't understand. And then I was really confused
• 1:07:32
  at why I said that because I didn't even look at the board or
• 1:07:35
  look at the paper. So how did I know I didn't
• 1:07:37
  understand? I don't know.
• 1:07:38
  But I'd created this belief that I was stupid because that's what
• 1:07:41
  my dad used to say to me. He's called me a buffoon.
• 1:07:43
  And actually, I thought a buffoon.
• 1:07:47
  Yeah. No, a buffoon is like a jester,
• 1:07:49
  you know, like a clown. That word really stuck with me.
• 1:07:52
  And I just because that's the only person I'd looked up to of
• 1:07:55
  authority, I guess, at that time.
• 1:07:58
  He let you down, He let you down.
• 1:07:59
  I just assumed that he was right.
• 1:08:01
  And also I didn't do anything at school when I got expelled and
• 1:08:03
  my whole life people told me I was bad.
• 1:08:05
  And I kind of linked that with being bad and useless and, and
• 1:08:07
  not smart. So.
• 1:08:09
  But she was like, we'll give it a try.
• 1:08:10
  And then. OK, yeah, I kind of get it.
• 1:08:14
  And then I and then I started to just do the work.
• 1:08:17
  She'd support me and then I just got it.
• 1:08:18
  It was simple obviously, because it was just like say simple
• 1:08:21
  calculation, but. Simple for you maybe?
• 1:08:25
  But then I thought, you know, what's actually stopping me from
• 1:08:30
  thinking that? You know why?
• 1:08:32
  Now I'm kind of realizing that, OK, it's probably come from my
• 1:08:34
  dad. It hit me in the moment.
• 1:08:38
  And then I thought, I wonder what I would do if I thought the
• 1:08:40
  opposite. I was like, what about if I was
• 1:08:42
  smart and I didn't even know? So I said, can you can you give
• 1:08:45
  me like a test? And she said, I'm going to teach
• 1:08:48
  you how to do pie. It's like how to do the
• 1:08:50
  circumference in a circle. I was like, OK, cool.
• 1:08:52
  And then she gave me this like written down a bit of paper.
• 1:08:54
  And then I came back and I said, I've, I've memorized a Pi π to
• 1:08:58
  100 decimal places the next day and just, I know you haven't.
• 1:09:02
  And I was like, yeah, that's what you wanted me to do, right?
• 1:09:03
  It's just, I know you had to do a calculation.
• 1:09:05
  I was like, oh, I thought you wanted to memorize it.
• 1:09:07
  And so I so I came and I said, I said I have.
• 1:09:11
  And then I just started going 3.1415126535897932384626433 and
• 1:09:18
  that is, I mean, it's, I still remember it now.
• 1:09:19
  And, and then she was, she got all the other tutors from the
• 1:09:23
  other classrooms in to do it. And I was, there was a shouting
• 1:09:25
  out, what's this decimal place? I was writing on the ward.
• 1:09:27
  And then and then I said, I'm going to do 500.
• 1:09:29
  And then I came back the next day and I did a 500.
• 1:09:32
  And then it was then she sat me down and had a conversation.
• 1:09:35
  She was like, OK, you know, you can do a lot more than this.
• 1:09:37
  And then I said, do you ever think I could go to university?
• 1:09:39
  Because I just genuinely thought that was just not for people
• 1:09:41
  like me. You could leave at school at 16
• 1:09:44
  back then. And they, and it was only, I
• 1:09:47
  don't know, they'd never because I was, because I got expelled
• 1:09:48
  obviously at 15. And before then they weren't
• 1:09:50
  even starting to talk about kind of what you're going to do after
• 1:09:52
  school. I just assumed it was reserved
• 1:09:56
  for the smart kids. So she said, of course you can.
• 1:10:01
  And I just thought, and it was a level of belief that no one had
• 1:10:05
  had in me before, including myself.
• 1:10:07
  But I got it when she said it because it was real.
• 1:10:09
  She was really certain about it. She was like, of course you can.
• 1:10:11
  Like I was like you idiot. Of course you can.
• 1:10:14
  And then so I thought, OK, oh, I'm going to go to India.
• 1:10:16
  So I went to rehab after prison for six months is a whole nother
• 1:10:21
  story. And then after that I got
• 1:10:23
  accepted into an access course, which is the equivalent of A
• 1:10:26
  levels in one year, short and down to get you into uni.
• 1:10:29
  And I thought, you know what, these kids were fresh out of
• 1:10:32
  school when I was a 26 year old mature student technically at
• 1:10:38
  the time. And but I thought, you know
• 1:10:40
  what, I'm just going to try my hardest.
• 1:10:41
  I've never tried before. I'm just going to see what I've
• 1:10:44
  got. And I got a distinction in every
• 1:10:47
  module and every subject and won an award at the end of the year.
• 1:10:49
  It's obviously only college. You know, it was only Level 3 at
• 1:10:52
  the time, but it was seriously. It was.
• 1:10:54
  Don't put it down. Yeah, well done.
• 1:10:55
  Don't say only. But what I mean is it wasn't
• 1:10:58
  like this huge achievement, but it was me trying my hardest and
• 1:11:02
  I got 100% attendance. I there every day.
• 1:11:04
  I was cycling there to get there.
• 1:11:06
  And amazing, yeah. And then I was like, OK, cool.
• 1:11:09
  So I got into uni and then I was three months in and I thought it
• 1:11:13
  was going to be amazing. All these academics was going to
• 1:11:16
  learn all this amazing stuff. And I got in there and I was
• 1:11:18
  just this is flat, this is crap, this is yeah, this is rubbish.
• 1:11:23
  And I was being taught, I was being taught.
• 1:11:26
  I did a business manager and entrepreneurship degree.
• 1:11:28
  I was being taught and lectured by someone that had never left
• 1:11:32
  university so they got a PhD in product design.
• 1:11:36
  Never started a business and now just went into academics and now
• 1:11:39
  teach. So I I couldn't value this
• 1:11:41
  person's opinion as. Well, authority.
• 1:11:44
  Well, it was not just authority, but there's no results.
• 1:11:45
  There's no slightly. You have to have the the
• 1:11:48
  substance behind it. I'm not just gonna.
• 1:11:49
  You're a doctor. I listen to you.
• 1:11:51
  I don't have that. I've got.
• 1:11:52
  Yeah. Why should I?
• 1:11:53
  Yeah. What have you got?
• 1:11:55
  I don't want what you've got, so I'm not going to listen to you
• 1:11:57
  because I wasn't going to end up in the same place.
• 1:11:59
  So I dropped out and but I don't like that term.
• 1:12:01
  I chose a different path and I went double down on my business.
• 1:12:04
  And by the time they graduated on their degree, I was a
• 1:12:06
  millionaire. So I was all right, you know,
• 1:12:08
  with that decision. But then as I started creating
• 1:12:12
  my own sort of education online and my own accreditations and
• 1:12:16
  things like that, I brought a whole different sort of flavour
• 1:12:20
  to learning, which is more authentic, more real, more
• 1:12:23
  relevant. And then there's a whole nother
• 1:12:27
  conversation we can have around the way that I would like to see
• 1:12:31
  education change. But to be honest, I could talk
• 1:12:33
  about it for hours because it did fail people like me.
• 1:12:36
  Like I it didn't support me when I was younger.
• 1:12:40
  I get that. And also it's just completely
• 1:12:42
  incomplete. It teaches you how to learn
• 1:12:44
  things. It doesn't teach you anything
• 1:12:45
  about yourself. Like if someone had just taught
• 1:12:47
  me about myself then I would have been able to unlock
• 1:12:49
  everything after that I can. See, I mean, even the way that
• 1:12:52
  you, that you coach, you're quite sensitive to the other
• 1:12:55
  person's personality. You know it.
• 1:12:58
  The psychology of the person is very important to you.
• 1:13:02
  Yeah, because everyone's different.
• 1:13:03
  Like, you can't the, the the adage is you can't judge a fish
• 1:13:07
  on its ability to climb a tree. Have you heard of that before?
• 1:13:11
  But like so you know, but they're the standardized I.
• 1:13:14
  Think of it differently now that I've met you, but.
• 1:13:17
  The standardized tests for everybody and they're not
• 1:13:19
  understanding their, their behavioral patterns, their,
• 1:13:23
  their neurodiversity, their wants, their needs, their Rep
• 1:13:26
  systems, their learning style, their visual auditory.
• 1:13:28
  There's, there's so many different like things to it and
• 1:13:30
  they just get like learn this. And anyway, so I decided that,
• 1:13:37
  you know, I want to disrupt education.
• 1:13:39
  It's quite a large mission, but I want to disrupt education.
• 1:13:41
  So I've been working on behind the scenes to create an
• 1:13:43
  alternative degree. So we're about to be, it's taken
• 1:13:47
  2 years, but we're about to be officially accredited by
• 1:13:49
  qualify, which gives us the ability to deliver level 4 and 5
• 1:13:53
  diplomas and partner with universities to better deliver
• 1:13:56
  degrees. But it'll mean that I can
• 1:13:58
  deliver it unfortunately to the same curriculum because that
• 1:14:01
  can't be changed as to government regulated.
• 1:14:04
  But I can change the way it's delivered and what's in there
• 1:14:06
  and the style and the relevance and the excitement that's in
• 1:14:09
  there. So it's.
• 1:14:09
  Not it's going to be very good for a lot of people 100% who
• 1:14:12
  don't want that it's. A very different format.
• 1:14:14
  It's all online, cheaper, all sorts of things to it.
• 1:14:18
  But I went on a after after my psychopath life coach, I went on
• 1:14:23
  a talk, talk TVI think it was it was a live TV show and the guy
• 1:14:30
  hadn't even Andre or whatever his name is.
• 1:14:32
  Andre, you're listening. Listen up, mate.
• 1:14:34
  He hadn't even done any research to me.
• 1:14:36
  He said just by the way, just before we'd gone live.
• 1:14:38
  I haven't seen your documentary, but he'd just been given like a
• 1:14:40
  script of just like try and drag this person through the muds,
• 1:14:44
  you know, And some of the things he came up to me was like, how
• 1:14:48
  can you teach people, you know, anything like who, who says you
• 1:14:53
  are academically qualified and all this sort of nonsense?
• 1:14:56
  Because he had a couple of degrees.
• 1:14:57
  People that have degrees are so protective over the money
• 1:15:00
  they've wasted on it that they will tell anyone that doesn't
• 1:15:03
  have one that they are wrong. I mean, and he was like all
• 1:15:07
  sorts of things that because I, because I'm not academically
• 1:15:09
  qualified, what I'm doing is manipulative and it's a scam.
• 1:15:12
  He said it's close to fraudulent.
• 1:15:13
  He said, how can you promise people a better life if you're
• 1:15:16
  not academically qualified? And it's, and I, and I said
• 1:15:20
  anyway, after that I thought, OK, not because necessarily to
• 1:15:25
  prove anything to him, but I just knew this is what I'm
• 1:15:27
  dealing with. And if I want to make a big
• 1:15:28
  impact, I can't completely go against people's belief system
• 1:15:33
  because they're just not going to be receptive to it.
• 1:15:34
  So I need to play into it. So if you think that I need
• 1:15:37
  academic qualifications to be able to make the change I want
• 1:15:40
  to make, then I'll go and get them.
• 1:15:43
  So I went and got it. So I did a PhD in
• 1:15:46
  transformational education and got distinction.
• 1:15:49
  So, so Andre, if you're listening to that, I'm more
• 1:15:54
  qualified than you are, my friend.
• 1:15:56
  I mean, come on, you know, let's, let's just, we've been
• 1:16:00
  speaking for over an hour now, OK?
• 1:16:03
  You've told your story. You've gone through terrible
• 1:16:08
  times, like bad stuff has happened.
• 1:16:12
  You dragged, you single handedly dragged yourself out of that.
• 1:16:16
  You got educated in prison itself with this lovely lady was
• 1:16:20
  a Sue Susie did you say? Yeah.
• 1:16:23
  And you were motivated to do that and you did that yourself
• 1:16:26
  from all the stuff that you had been through Where everyone
• 1:16:30
  society has written, you written you completely off and you still
• 1:16:34
  got an education. So for that man to say what he
• 1:16:38
  said is not okay. Like not on any planet would he
• 1:16:41
  have been able to pick himself up if he had been told these
• 1:16:44
  things by his own dad. Because The thing is, the
• 1:16:46
  problem with parents saying such toxic things to these little
• 1:16:50
  people, these little humans that are growing up, is that they
• 1:16:53
  only become what the parents said they are because they
• 1:16:55
  believe the parent, because that is the voice of authority.
• 1:16:58
  So they then are just fulfilling what's being put there.
• 1:17:02
  And it's only if they can by some miracle grow out of that
• 1:17:07
  and break that programming, and then they realize that there's
• 1:17:11
  this other way. But that to do that that's also
• 1:17:13
  insane. Like that is just to have the
• 1:17:17
  the self-awareness to do that is, is another level.
• 1:17:20
  You know, it not everyone is in that position to do that.
• 1:17:23
  And a lot of people will carry on their whole life just
• 1:17:25
  reinforcing what they've been told because that's what they
• 1:17:29
  believe. So they just programmed and they
• 1:17:30
  just executing programming. So I don't like, I don't like
• 1:17:33
  that. I don't feel that you have to
• 1:17:36
  who says you have to have an education like this or like
• 1:17:39
  that? I mean, just as long as you're
• 1:17:42
  trying to be better, that's that's it.
• 1:17:46
  Just try be better. Yes you've done bad things but
• 1:17:50
  try whatever it is, education how you treat people.
• 1:17:56
  Just be better, work on yourself then that is successful.
• 1:17:59
  Do it whatever Rd. it is. Do that to help other people.
• 1:18:02
  I mean, it's not just like I it's counterintuitive and it's
• 1:18:07
  almost a conflict for me to to sit here and say I care about
• 1:18:10
  people. I'm making a difference in the
• 1:18:11
  world when I've said those things.
• 1:18:13
  But I genuinely do yeah. For more than one reason,
• 1:18:15
  though. Like everything doesn't have to
• 1:18:17
  be black and white. Like what is your intention?
• 1:18:18
  Is it this or this? There's there's many, you know,
• 1:18:21
  I want to be known as significant and I want to feel
• 1:18:25
  proud and to, although I haven't been able to access that yet,
• 1:18:29
  but the idea is I want to be able to get to some place, some
• 1:18:32
  point time where I can look back and go, I'm so proud of what I
• 1:18:34
  did, you know, not necessarily for the other people, but I'm
• 1:18:38
  glad that I was the one that did it.
• 1:18:39
  You know, that's the selfish part of it and me craving
• 1:18:42
  something for myself. But also, I do deeply care about
• 1:18:45
  these people knowing that, you know, I was once in that place
• 1:18:48
  and the wishing someone could have helped me.
• 1:18:50
  And I on a cognitive level, yeah, I might not feel like
• 1:18:54
  this. Whatever you feel, I'm just
• 1:18:58
  saying whatever anyone feels, I don't know.
• 1:19:00
  I can't even, I can't even describe it because I just don't
• 1:19:02
  get the feeling. But I, I might not feel that
• 1:19:05
  sensation that people explain how to get, but I still just
• 1:19:09
  100% get it. If not, I think it's more acute.
• 1:19:11
  I think it's more sharp. I think, I think I'm more aware.
• 1:19:13
  I think I. Think you're very?
• 1:19:14
  Aware and emotion and sort of not emotionally.
• 1:19:17
  I think I can cognitively care and want to impact more so and
• 1:19:23
  just, but just because there's no emotion attached to it
• 1:19:26
  doesn't make it any less profound so.
• 1:19:28
  You're right, it's interesting, you're right.
• 1:19:31
  And I've I've interviewed a lot of people and never has anyone.
• 1:19:37
  Well, first of all, analyzed me back because I would say I'm
• 1:19:40
  quite analyzed me back. But also being the questions you
• 1:19:45
  are asked are quite emotional or they they touch on the emotions
• 1:19:49
  of a person of how they perceive themselves.
• 1:19:51
  So you're quite you're definitely it's like incredibly
• 1:19:55
  aware. I think of the other person.
• 1:19:58
  It's it's total, it's a total superpower.
• 1:20:01
  Thank you. And that's what I want people to
• 1:20:03
  understand. It's not that I'm void of
• 1:20:04
  empathy, it's more so I just don't get a physical reaction.
• 1:20:08
  That's pretty much it. And there are like for example,
• 1:20:11
  would you think of an autistic person as evil?
• 1:20:14
  Obviously not. Obviously not, but you say
• 1:20:16
  obviously, but they a lot of autistic people also do not feel
• 1:20:19
  any emotion. So one of the symptoms of it,
• 1:20:22
  but they're not categorized as, you know, evil or bad or lack
• 1:20:26
  don't care for other people, but they just might not get a
• 1:20:28
  physical sensation. So it's just a misperception and
• 1:20:31
  a lack of awareness around what these personality disorders.
• 1:20:35
  Are, I mean, I've, I've totally got a lack of awareness and I, I
• 1:20:38
  feel bad. I feel part of the problem, you
• 1:20:42
  know, that I also think was psychopath.
• 1:20:44
  I mean, that's really bad and I'm so scared and it's like, I
• 1:20:48
  feel, yeah. Because it's like then yeah.
• 1:20:50
  How's autism different? It is a diagnosis.
• 1:20:52
  And you know what the worst thing about this is, is that I
• 1:20:55
  actually, I mean, I did a business informatics degree at
• 1:20:58
  university, but as part of this, that module, I was allowed to
• 1:21:01
  take another subject like humanities that I wanted.
• 1:21:04
  So I took psychology and learnt about personality disorders and
• 1:21:10
  all these things. And mostly because I wanted to
• 1:21:12
  understand my family because I think they.
• 1:21:14
  All of it. Yeah.
• 1:21:17
  But yeah. So I should know better, you
• 1:21:19
  know, I should know better not to do that.
• 1:21:21
  And I I didn't. I'm sorry about that.
• 1:21:24
  Oh. Apology accepted.
• 1:21:27
  It's been amazing having you on. Thank you so much.
• 1:21:30
  Thank you.