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Patriots Catch-22 9/24: 3 Up/Down vs. Steelers, Drake Maye Breakdown, Panthers Preview · Patriots Catch-22

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Barth.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Blazarre from Lazarren Hello, everybody nailed it. Joins has always
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: by our Gaplin kid gait no risk. Here is Evan
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Lazar and Alex.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Bars Morgan moses though, and there was a lot of
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: talk about his age when they signed him. He plays
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and he'll tough through it and he'll play hurt. He
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: didn't miss after his rookie year. He didn't miss a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: game until twenty twenty three, and then he's missed three
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: games each the last two years. It's pretty solid for
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: a tackle to play twenty eight games too over the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: span of two years. He hopes this isn't one of
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the games. You don't want him to miss any games,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: but this especially, you hope is in a game that
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: he misses. But right, he's not somebody I worry about
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: being like, I don't want to risk it this week. No.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I think if he can go, he'll go. If he
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: can get out there on Sunday. He seems like the
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: kind of guy that will get out there on Sunday.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, I was pretty surprised that he wasn't
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: even on the injury on Yeah, he played pretty well
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: against t J. Watt. Well, get to all of that.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: But it's Evan Lazard, It's Alex Barth, It's Alex behind
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: the glass. Patriots Catch twenty two with you for the
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: next couple of hours here breaking down the loss of
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: the Steelers, breaking down the game against the Carolina Panthers
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: on Sunday. So a lot to talk about in patriot
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Land here for the next couple of hours, next couple
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: of days, in the lead up to this game on Sunday,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Week four. Already we're moving. We're moving a little bit now.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: So here we go, and I want to start with
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: an opening take, and then I want to I wanted
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: to do this segment at the beginning of the season
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: and it totally escaped me. So we're going to do
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: the good, the bad, and the crap that gets you beat.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're allowed to swear or something. I'm
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: going to say crap or stuff stuff.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Just say stuff. It sounds closer.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: So the stuff that gets you beat, and those are
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the three buckets that Mike Rabel breaks down games into
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: the team. So we're going to do our version of
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: that here on the show probably doesn't really work if
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: they win. So maybe this is something that we go.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, no, we could have absolutely done last week
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: with Miami, but I think they totally could. Stuff with Miami.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Would have gotten you beat. Didn't get you beat.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: It almost did because they won't. But here's this thing.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Didn't lose, right, But here's this thing is it's it's
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: buckets and it's it's limiting. You can do things that
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: will get you beat and still like as long as
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: it's outweighed by the other stuff you could.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Do the bad. I don't think you can consistently do
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: the things that get you not consistently.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: But we'll get we'll get to No, I think I
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: think Miami game is the perfect examples.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Get to bet, we'll get to it. I think the
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: the opening take that I wanted to give, and then
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: we're going to get to that exercise here in a second.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I understand completely, Alex that people are done with the
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: moral victories. They don't want any more of moral victories.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: They want to see results. And I totally feel that
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: we have watched really three years of bad football in
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: this region, going back to twenty twenty two, and there
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: were times in twenty twenty two where it was okay,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: But let's face it, it's really been three full seasons
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: of bad football, and it's just the moral victories are
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: getting hollow, like they're getting old, Like we want to
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: see real progression, and I get that. But at the
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: same time, and you know, as we start to segue
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: here into the good, because I want to start on
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: a positive note, we start to segue into the good here.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: At the same time, there is a lot of good
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: of what they did in this game on Sunday that
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: gets completely wiped out by the five turnovers. If they
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: don't turn the ball over five times in this game,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I truly feel like they probably win this game going away,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Like I think they might have won this game by
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: double digits if they don't turn it over five times.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: That that being said, like I understand people don't like
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: the moral victories, but I would not come here and
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: tell you guys that the film, and I'm specifically talking
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: about the offense. I wouldn't tell you that the offense
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: is encouraging if it wasn't encouraging, Like after Week one,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I was not telling you that the offense was encouraging.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: These last two weeks offensively has been a lot better,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: like some really good football and good scheme and good
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: execution on the field offensively. That has me overall, big
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: picture encouraged about the team. And I know that they
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: need to win some games, and I know it's getting old,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: but if they play offense like this moving forward, and
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: of course without the turnovers, they play offense like this
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: moving forward, they are going to start scoring some points.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: They're gonna start scoring and of course if you score,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: then you win and all that good stuff.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So let me let me recharacterize it. You don't you
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: want to say it's not a moral victory. Fine, it's both.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: It's an encouraging game and a frustrating game at the
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: same time, which it can be hard to kind of,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: you know, how do you compartmentalize that because you're frustrated
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: that they lost first and foremost, But they did a
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: lot of good things in that game, and not just
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: good things. They did things that they haven't done. They
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: did things that we've been waiting to see them to do,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: and that's encouraging. And then you just get even more
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: frustrated because they did all that and I still can't
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: enjoy it because they lost so.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: It's like.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Everybody has a right to feel frustrated after that. I
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: think you can be both frustrated and encouraged. And I
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: know that kind of sounds a little weird, and it's
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: funny to talk about it this way because we have
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: this argument mainly off the air in different contexts all
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the time. That's basically, how do you weigh what looks
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: good on tape versus the ultimate results. You draw up
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a bunch of fun look and plays, but you'll lose
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: twenty eight nothing. You know, you would be inclined to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: enjoy that, whereas I would say, no, that's not a
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: well done game because you lost. This might kind of
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: be the middle ground of that, where it's ultimately not
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the result you want. It's ultimately not a successful game.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: In my mind, I would not call that game a
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: success no, because they lost it. But I don't know.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: This sounds way too simplistic for this show, But you're
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: not going to turn the ball over five times every game.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: You're just not going to do that. And a lot
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: of the things they did around it were winning football.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: So it's just and we're supposed to do the deeper
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: dive on the show now, way we will, but like,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: so I when I sit down with David Andrews on Monday,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the first thing he says is, we could do this
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: show in thirty seconds. Don't turn the ball over five times.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Like that's the take. That's obviously the big take coming
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: away from the show. But they did so much around
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: it that you like, I'll give you a stat of
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: And so I decide to have some after the game
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: on Pro Football Reference, as I'm one to do, and
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: all right, how many limits can I put in this thing?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: So teams that and I some of these are under
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: what the Patriots did, But I was trying to just
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: use kind of round numbers here. Outgain the opponent by
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: at least one hundred and fifty yards, out, snap the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: opponent by at least twenty plays on offense, Convert at
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: least forty five percent of your third downs, at least
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: seventy five percent of your fourth downs. Punt one or
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: fewer times. Yeah, that's a pretty good you do all that,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: You had a pretty good game, right right? Teams that
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: did that since the merger thirty seven and two and
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: now thirty seven and three with the Patriots, and just
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the odd thing I'll throw in there because it's weird.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: The last such game of that was in twenty twelve
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: was Cowboys Ravens. The Cowboys lost. The last such game
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: that that was a loss. The Cowboys somehow only turned
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the ball over once in that game and lost despite
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: all that. But the point being, like, you play that
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: game most of the time, you're gonna win. And obviously
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: there are things they can do to limit the turnovers,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: but you're just if they're turning the ball over five times,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: there's such bit the indicators would be there, like they're
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: not that team, right, We just don't believe they're not
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: gonna be a team that's like has the fewer turnovers
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: in the league. They're probably gonna have more than the
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: average team, but man, you're just not gonna turn the
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: ball over five times a game. And the things they
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: did around that on both sides of the ball, we're
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: very encouraging.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, So that's a good way to kind of segue here,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: because we're gonna get to the turnovers and the crap
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: that gets you beat, right, We're gonna get there. Don't
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: worry people, we're gonna talk about it. But with the good.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I want to start with the good I think the
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: most encouraging thing from a good standpoint, and I guess
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: these things got kind of go hand in hand, but
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: the overall offensive scheme from Josh McDaniels, yeah, and game
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: planning over the last two weeks, coupled with how good
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I think Drake may looks on the whole through the
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: last two games, call it. You know, I don't know
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: if it was as good on either front. In the
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Raiders game, it wasn't, But over the last couple of weeks,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I've just been extremely encouraged by what Josh McDaniels has
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: started to put together scheme wise. The things that really
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: stand out to me. Number one, the under centered mechanics
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: and their ability to move the pocket has really paid
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: dividends for them and has really settled Drake down into
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: some of these games. I would say, you know, last
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: week against the Steelers, that fifteen yard boot run that
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: he had in the second quarter that kind of got
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: them going and that got him started. In this game,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: they're right around ten percent of the time that they
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: moved the pocket design rollouts at this point. That's tenth
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: highest in the league, but it's right up there with
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the Niners. The Vikings, the Rams. The Packers like teams
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: that move the pocket on a regular basis, So they're
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: moving the pocket on these bootleg plays about as often
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: as all these West Coast Shanahan style teams are doing
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: at this point. That's catering to your quarterbacks. That's about Drake.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: That's about getting his mobility him out into space and
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: cutting the field in half and using his legs as
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: an advantage against the defense. That that's catering to your quarterback.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: The other thing that you know me, I'm big on this.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Their motion rate has increased exponentially over the last couple
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: of weeks. They were the lowest motion team in the
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: league in Week one at around seventeen percent. The last
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: two weeks are up at sixty three percent in the
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: motion rate, so they've really flipped that. They've gotten much
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: more motion heavy. They haven't been as stagnant offensively pre snapped.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: They're motioning at the snap a little bit more. They're
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: shifting more before the ball is snapped as well, so
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: they're doing a lot more window dressing, and they're dressing
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: up plays more and they're scheming receiver open a lot more.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: As a result. This film against Pittsburgh, and I would
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: say the same thing about the film against the Dolphins.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: There's open receivers all over the place on this film. Like,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: they really did a nice job in this game of
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: getting guys open and scheming guys open, and McDaniels has
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: done an awesome job of just using the weapons that
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: they do have, because, let's face it, their receiver corp,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: you know, it's still not there yet. They still don't
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: really have a number one guy. They still don't really
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: have a field stretcher that's vertically making the defense respect
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: them vertically. And Josh McDaniels, with running backs, tight ends
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: and like a little bit of receiver production, is basically
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: milking every last ounce of leverage against the defense that
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: he can possibly find. Like they are really running this
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: offense through the backs and the tight ends. And the
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: one formation that I think really consistently points to that
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: is that split back formation where they have one of
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the tight ends and a running back next to Drake
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: and the shotgun. They ran that formation about a dozen
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: times on Sunday, and they got some really big plays
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: out of it, you know, eighteen yard wheel route to
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Hunter Henry Hunter Henry's second touchdown on the fourth and
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: two play came out of twelve personnel out of shotgun
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: with the Austin Hooper with him in the backfield. There
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: was another fifteen yard completion out of that, and just
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: all the different possibilities that you can scheme up out
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: of that one formation with Drake and the gun and
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: the two guys next to him, one tight end, one
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: running back, and then of course two tight ends on
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the field.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Total.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: You know, how are team's going to match that. Are
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: they going to match it in base and then you
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: have safeties and linebackers covering tight ends and receivers and
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: you can win those matchups. Or are they going to
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: cover it in nickel and maybe you can run the
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: ball against their lighter nickel packages. That's the chess match
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: that they're having right now with the posing defenses. That
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: all starts with formation and personnel. So that's really all
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: McDaniels like that. That's a schematic thing from Josh McDaniel's
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: and I just look at what they're doing now and
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: the only I love it, The only hesitation that I
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: have about it is weeks you know eight through seventeen,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: our team's going to start to figure them out because
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: they don't. Do they have I guess a better way
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: to put it. Do they have an off speed pitch? Like,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: do they have a change up? Do they have a
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: secondary pitch that once a teams start to see what
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: they're doing out of twelve personnel and the base plays
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that they're running out of twelve personnel? Do they now
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: have complimentary plays built off of those plays to kind
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: of protect the base stuff because the base stuff is
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: really good. But these decordinators are really smart and they're
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: going to figure it out eventually.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: And that's something Josh has always been great at is
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: his offense does not look the same in September as
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: it doesn't in December. Never has, and you know, I'm
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: not gonna say never will We'll see, But like, isn't
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: that where you start to get into you're running some
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: of the same stuff, but you're running it with different
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: players so it looks differently. Right, So let's say you're
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: running out of twelve and you have Keisehan Boody and
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Mac Collins. Is your two receivers? Right, you run the
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: same play, but it's Stephan Diggs and Kyle Williams is
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: the two Like you inherently have to defend that differently.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: So maybe that's the change up because there are still
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: some guys still haven't seen a ton from Kyle Williams.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I still think there's more they can do with Stefan.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: He's been out there a lot, but I still think
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: there's some untapped there and they're probably trying to let
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: him get his legs back under him after the injury
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: last year. Travon Henderson will get Travan Henderson. Travon Henderson
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: has been involved a lot, but I think he can
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: be involved very differently, So there's that element of it.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's the change up, is just the personnel groupings
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: as much as it is the schematic stuff.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they've already they already kind of did some
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: different things like the wheel route to Hunter Henry is
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Henry in the backfield, rurning the wheel, the touchdown to
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Hunter Henry on fourth down later on the game, it
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: was Hooper that was in the backfield and it was
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Henry that was the in line tight end. So they've
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: already started to do some different things in terms of
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: just where guys are in those formations. But when you again,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: like getting back to catering this thing to Drake May.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: That is the under center in the boots and the
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: moving pockets, the shotgun you know, split back stuff, the motion,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: the window dressing. Like this was not stuff that Josh
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: McDaniels was doing a ton in his past stops, like
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: whether it was here with Brady and mac Jones or
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: in Vegas with the Raiders. So like when I hear things,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: you know, not to get like soapboxy here for a second,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: but like when I hear things like, oh, this is
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: the Josh McDaniels offense, Like this isn't the Josh McDaniels offense,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Like this does not look to me the last two
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: weeks like the Josh McDaniels offense. And this isn't to
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: like bring up some like divide in there where like
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: you know there's West Coast guys, and that's not where
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I'm going. I'm not going to your station, No, I'm
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: going to McDaniels has adapted and changed these scheme and
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: his system to fit Drake May.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: This is what we talked about when they hired it,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: when everybody was freaking out about, oh, it's going to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: be too much, and they asked Brady do all it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: What did we say, Yeah, he's it's a limited sample size,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: but he's generally done a good job of taking what
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: he because his core concepts are still there. Like the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: core concept is dropping.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: The drop back game is similar, right, the run game
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: and the i'd say the run game and and some
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: of the drop back game is pretty different, but like
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: you still see you know, their traditional drop back game
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: where they're running host Duke and.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I would also just say, and the way he's he's
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: using the run in the past and the play action
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: to play off each other and all of that, some
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: of the more meta stuff is the same. Because this
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: is what he did it for Cam Newton. He did
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: it for Mac Jones, like this was my take of time.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: He tailored the offense to Mac Jones to a fault
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to a fault to him because he got this kind
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: of screen merchant label. And then they what happened the
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: next year with Mac Jones throwing the ball down the field,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Like that's me what they needed to do. So this
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: is this is what Josh McDaniels does.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sorry, I just under center speed option
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: on fourth and one, like I haven't seen Josh McDaniels
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: run that with Mac Jones or Tom Brady like that
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't going to run it. Well, I know,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: but I'm just saying like it's this is this is
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: your quarters, right he ran with Cam. I think I
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: don't know about number fourth and one, but I don't
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: about understand they ran.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I remember they ran one or two old school options
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that year. Maybe I don't think it might not have
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: been fourth and one, but they ran it.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I don't remember them. But maybe the point being is
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: just like this is catering to your quarterback. Yeah, and
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: when Week one, when I had all that frustration is
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: because they weren't doing these types of things. Now I'm
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: seeing them do these types of things. Some of the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: different gun you know, split back stuff really has me excited,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: like they they missed it. But like you know, they
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: have a spinner series now where Drake may kind of
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: spins around on the play action fake from the gun,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: which is really popular nowadays. You know the Bills, the Ravens,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: like teams like that that have a lot of the Eagles,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of gun in their offense, like a lot
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: of shotgun. Are you doing what's called a spinner fake
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: where like the quarterback literally spins and turns his back
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: to the defense and the gun and spins all you know,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: does a one to eighty and comes back around. And
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: they had you know, Pop Douglas wide open in the
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: flat on one of those spinner plays, and like when
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: you just look at the play concept itself, it's just
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: it's great design. Like they have the running back on
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the wheel, and they have popa you know, on the
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: swing in the flat. Then they have Matt Collins running
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: like a deep incut in the middle of the field,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: and you just look at all the different openings of
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: where this could present open receivers. They covered the wheel
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: pretty well, but Matt Collins is open in the middle
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: of the field and Pop was wide open in the flat,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and they just kind of couldn't connect, which we'll get
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: to here as well. But all these different schematic things,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: it's like you said, you know, a few minutes ago
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: about me, like this is the stuff that gets me
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: hot and bothered. Right now, they only scored fourteen.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Points, so now let's so now it's going to translate
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: to winning the next time.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: But this is the kind of stuff that gets me
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: hot and bothered because when you when you get process
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: oriented and you're not just thinking closed mindedly about the
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: results and your process oriented. Like if you keep doing
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: these types of things, then this is going to lead
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: to good offense and this is going to lead to
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: more points. They just need to get Petter to Hatter
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: to like they need to execute better, Like they need
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: to get better at what they're doing. The other good
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: thing that I came out of this game that I
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: wanted to talk about. And I know that this is
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: a little like how is the play missus Lincoln, I
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: get it, but like Drake May sands the turnovers like
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Drake May right now, and I get that there's also
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: a small sample slize slash strength to schedule element to
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: this as well. But from an efficiency standpoint, he's like
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: a top ten quarterback in the league right now, which
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I don't care if they're playing you know, the Raiders,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Dolphins and Stea Deelers, they were not being this good,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you know, top ten efficiency in the last couple of years.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Like they're that's still a huge improvement from where.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: They were, just qualifier on all of it, Like, yeah,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: it's not be you know, having good games against these
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: lesser teams is not the end goal. But they weren't
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: even doing this. So it's a step forward, and it's
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: not all gonna happen at once. You got to take
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: these step forwards. Also, just relatively speaking, there's a lot
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: of bad teams in the NFL. So maybe not everybody's
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: played the Ravens, Steelers and Dolphins, but who's played like
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: the I don't know any of the like the NFC
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: South's playing each other. That division sucks.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's sort of my It was like, you know,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: it goes back to Rabeles thing like can you take
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: advantage of bad football? And that baseline of being able
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: to take advantage of bad football that probably beats like
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: ten out of the thirty two teams in the league
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: every week just by not being as bad as the
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: other team. And the last two years offensively, they weren't
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: even good enough to take advantage of bad football. Now
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to see Drake May be good enough to
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: do that and good enough to elevate things. You know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: we can go individual throw, you can go big picture
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: in terms of his efficiency and all the metrics. Just
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: love Drake May. Right now, he's eighth in EPA per play,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: He's third in EPA per play in obvious passing situations.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: It's Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Drake may like that. That's
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: what we're talking about here, and obvious you know, expected
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: pass situations. He's first in the league in late down EPA,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: third and fourth down, So he is the best third
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and fourth down quarterback in the NFL through three weeks.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Like that doesn't just happen by accident. That's not strength
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: to schedule, that's not opponent based. Like that is the
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: quarterback making plays.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: He's played, can so can I can we do this game?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: He's played five really good halves of football and six
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: halves Yeah of the season, Okay, I'll give you that.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Like he's been it's because my whole thing with him,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: you know, is consistency. Yeah, outside of that second half
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: of the Raiders, I think it's been because I don't
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: think those numbers are inflated by one specific game or
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: one specific drive, Like I think for the most part,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: he's just kind of been this guy's just that second
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: half against the Raiders. Yeah, besides that, he's been pretty consistent,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: which is encouraging.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the throws that stood out to me,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I'm sure similar to everybody else. You know, the deep
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: dig to Booty on third down was a really good throw.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Got to get they got to work that in more.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: That was role in the first half of the Raiders game.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: We haven't really seen it since.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really good I manipulation there to look off the
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: zone and then come back to the middle of the
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: field there. And that's not that's not a peace shooter
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: throw either, Like you have to be able to you
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: have to have some ability to drive the football, like
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: that's a fifteen to twenty yard zone window that you're
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: driving the ball into. The wheel route to Hunter Henry
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: is just a perfect like that's a touch throw, you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: or he just kind of throws it with a great
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: touch and just enough air or you know, air under
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: it to get it there before the same safety, but
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: just enough touch to kind of get it over the
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: linebacker there.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Just a really perfect The one player to Henry was that,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I think to set up at the end of the half.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yet one up the scene to Henry, not the touchdown.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Will, That's what I'm talking about. And then he
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: also had five runs for first downs in this game,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: you know, So you're just seeing all of it, like
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: you're seeing the scrambling ability. You're seeing the arm talent
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: and the ability from the pocket. I know that you
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: can't just wipe away all the turnovers, and we're going
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: to get to the turnovers, but overall, I just think
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: we need to look at this as like a developmental
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: thing with Drake May and it's not going to be
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: linear where every play is going to be perfect. And
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: if you look at it from the totality of the
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: three games that he has played, you know, there's really
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: no metric that you can look at that doesn't call
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: him like a top fifteen top tennis quarterback in the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: NFL through three weeks. So that's extremely encouraging. The last
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: thing here on the good side, and then we'll get
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: to some of the not so good. I thought they
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: ingested really well defensively in this game. Didn't think they
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: started too hot, which we'll get to, but they after
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the first two drives, especially after that opening drive, they
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: adjusted pretty quickly to the run game for the Steelers,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and they really shut down the run game from that
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: point on in that game, and I think the in
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: game adjustments defensively it's taken maybe a little bit longer
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: in other games. This one was pretty quick, like this
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: right around that after that second drive by the Steelers,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: second touchdown drive, they kind of clamped down from there.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: But I also just really liked and I you know,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: this will kind of come back up later, like the
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: accountability on defense and it's no shot at these two guys,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: but benching Christian Ellis and Alex Austin and just saying
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: this is not good enough and putting other guys out
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: there and giving you know, Gibbons and Charles Woods an opportunity.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I just like that, like at some point they have
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: to start taking the guys that are playing bad football
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: off the field, Like you can't just keep bond doing
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: the same thing, which I think the last couple of
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Stabs might not have had the the depth on the
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: roster to like have something different to go to. But
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I also didn't really feel like they were really very
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: accountable in that regard. So in game adjustments for the
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: defense I thought were good. And then you, I mean,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: you hold the I keep saying the Packers because of Rodgers,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: you hold the Steelers to it. I think it was
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: one first down on five possessions in the middle quarters,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Like that's.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Pretty high yards allowed in the third quarter.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I think it was like one, wasn't it one? Yeah?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I mean that's that's just good football.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know the Steelers aren't who they were
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and Rodgers and who they were, but it's a lot
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: of bad teams to get more than one yard in
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the third quarter.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that was the goods for me. If there's
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: anything off the top of your head you wanted, Dad,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: then we can add to the goods if you want.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: But I feel like those were the no you hit
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: on a lot of it.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Just adjusting defensively and.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let's go to the bads.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Is this up and downs? Were we going to do
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: that separately?
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: But doing that separately? Okay, this is big picture. I'm
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: not other than Drake. I'm trying not to be two
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: players specific Well, yes, because Drake is a big picture
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, the bads. So let's
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: start here defensively. I did not like this game plan
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: for them defensively, and they got down fourteen to nothing
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: kind of as a result of the game plan. They
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: came out into high safety. And not only did they
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: come out into high safety, they came out in three
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Quarner Nickel, So they came out in basically past personnel. Defensively,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: they had the two high safeties up top, which you
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: do to keep a lid on the defense right to
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: avoid any big plays over your head. And then obviously
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: with the three corners out there and five defensive backs total,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: you're lighter in the box there with the nickel defender,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: you know, basically playing in the box. And the Steelers
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: in Jalen Warren just ran right down their throats, especially
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: on the opening drive. You know, six out of the
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: eight plays were run plays. They ran it right down
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: to the Patriots throats. Now, the Patriots adjusted, that was
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: on the good, right. I talked about that, but I
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: didn't really love how they came out in this game.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: And when you come out with a bad plan on defense,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you go down fourteen to nothing, and that's just not
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: a way to live in the NFL. You can't be
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: putting yourself in fourteen nothing holes on a consistent basis
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: and expect to win a lot of those games. So
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: this is now i'd say two and a half weeks
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: of me not loving their plan on defense. The opener
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: against the Raiders, they come out and they just blitzed,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: you know, Smith all over the place, which I thought
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: was kind of silly, like they were kind of diabolical,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: and how much they blitzed in that game and it
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: and it burned them a couple of times, you know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: in big, big plays. And this week, you know, this
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: isn't prime Aaron Rodgers where you know he's throwing deep
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: and he's slinging in, he's airing it out all over
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: the place, like that's not what he does anymore. This
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: is a check down merchant Aaron Rodgers with the run
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: game like that, that's really what the Steelers offense is.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: And it's surprised to me that they can out in
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: those two high safeties and got run on a little
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: bit in this game. Now they cleaned it up and
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: they got they got the run stopped.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: But overall, like.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I said, the game plans defensively, I think need to
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: be a little bit better to start these games, because
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: there is no reason for them to give up that
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: kind of uh you know, rushing production in the first quarter,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: like it was just too much.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Despite that, then they allowed twenty one points and just
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: over two hundred yards. Like I'm with you on like
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: they need to be better defensively to start but I
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: just have trouble nitpicking the defense in this game they play,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: even with the first two drives, that was a winning
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: effort defensively. That was one of the better games they
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: played defensively. Yeah, if you're saying about the game plan,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I get we're saying about theme.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: They go down fourteen to nothing, like regardless of it.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Like this is now two out of the three weeks too.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I believe that they've given up an opening drive touchdown
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: because they did the same thing against the Raiders, or
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: the Raiders went right down the field and scored to
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: start the game. Like if you want, I'm not saying
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: it's it's the bad. It's not the stuff to get
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to beat. But you can't be in holes all the time,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like you can't be playing from behind all.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: They need to start games better. I just I don't know.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: They've had some rough defensive look at what happened last
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: weekends too. I just thought this. I know we're doing
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: the good the bad and what gets you beat and
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: all that. I think it's still some mistackles we're gonna get.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: We can get into the mistackles. There's some context there.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: The biggest thing for me, I would say with the
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: defense is Look, some of those penalties were pretty ticky tack.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I have kind of a reference. I guess I'll squeeze
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: it in now. Some of those penalties were pretty ticky tack.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Carl Cheffer's crew through more flags than any last season. Yeah,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: like not Carl Cheffer's Cleat Blakeman. Sorry, I've done that
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: like two or three times this week. Cleete Blakeman's crew
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: through more flags than any last year. And you know
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that going in, and the coaches talk about that going in.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: We abilities do that all the time as a crew.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: We can get away with a little more, as a
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: crew can get away with little less. They break it
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: down by penalty, right, So yeah, some of those were
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: ticky tack. I think PI late on Carlton and Carlton
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Davis was ridiculous, But you kind of got to know
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: going in, hey, I probably can't get away with as
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: much as usual. And there were some bad calls the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: other way too, Like I didn't think that PI call
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: in Keshan Boodie was a good call, right, they just
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: did the whole un catchable part of PI was ripped
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: out of the rollbook this week. But like, I don't
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: know I like an aggressive defense. I think there were
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: times where it was maybe like kind of know the
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: situation and hey, this is who the crew is and
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: this is how they've been calling it to this point,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: and they weren't good calls. But I think sometimes you
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: got to play that way.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I thought both calls on Alex Austin were legit.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Now the Carlon Davis DPI, I'm with you, was not
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: DPI in my mind, but I thought.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Both calls it was a hold if anything.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just again, it's it's the bad it's not
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: getting them beat that the defense isn't starting great in
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: some of these games. And if you want to do
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: the whole Belichick thing where you kind of let the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: game declare and you figure out what they're doing and
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: then you settle down defensively, that's all well and good
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: if you have Tom Brady on the other side to
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: keep up until the defense settles down, right. If you're
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: a team like this Patriots team, I think starting fast
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: is important for this group because they are not going
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: to necessarily be able to dig themselves out of fourteen
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: point deficits, especially against teams that are better than the Steelers,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: that are going to keep scoring, you know, once they've
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: put up fourteen points, Like they're not going to hold
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: you know, the Buffalo Bills to two shutout quarters like
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: the Patriots did against the Steelers on Sunday. You might
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: hold the Carolina Panthers to two shutout quarters. But you
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: get my point. So I just I think defensively the
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: game plans. I didn't mind the game plan as much
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: against Tua. I know the production against Tua was high
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: in those first three quarters for Tua, but they played
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: two high deep safeties and they made him hit whole
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: shots and things like that. On the side, like that's
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: what you're gonna do against Tua. Like, could they have
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: done it a little bit better, Yeah, they definitely could
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: have done it a little bit better, but that's sort
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: of that's the book, Like that's that's what everybody does
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: against Tua. So you just didn't necessarily execute it at
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: a high level. I didn't really get blitzing Geno Smith,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: and I don't really get why they were so worried
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: about Aaron Rodgers throwing deep on them in this game
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: to start this game. The other thing that you mentioned
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: was the mistackles. So I want to unpack this a
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: little bit because I did some digging in the next
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Gen stats world on some of these mistackles.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: So I actually think I grew with the take you're
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: about to get.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: So they had fourteen miss tackles last week, which is
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: too high. That's a very high number. Less than it was,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: but it's high. Fourteen miss tackles. Their mistackle rate through
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: three games is the third highest in the NFL right now,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: it's seventeen point eight percent. So they are missing tackles
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: at the third highest rate in the league. That is
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: too high. Now, Vrabel actually was the first one to
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: bring this up, and we'll get to some of this
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: stuff later, maybe because it excites me, and I know
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: it probably bothers you. He knows the stats and he
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: hasn't had the ready, which I love. So next Gen
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: tracks how many yards opponents get after miss tackles meets
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: yards after contact essentially, yeah, uh, after miss tackles. So
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: right now, the Patriots are giving up three point one
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: yards after a mistackle per mistackle. All right, that's the
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: lowest rate in the NFL. So on the one hand,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: they're missing a lot of tackles. That's no bueno. Yep,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: But on the other hand, when they do misstackles, they're
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: swarming to the football and it's not really burning them,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: like they're not giving up the you know, they miss
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: a tackle and then they're giving up a fifty yard
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: run because they missed the tackle, because they are getting
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: at football.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Here's what I'm wondering. Do you have the breakdown on
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: that number by week?
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I do, I mean not off the top of I
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: didn't write it down, but I could get.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: That's something we're in this game. I'm sorry if you
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: still more to your point, but I just didn't know.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's basically the pinkay.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: So here's the thing. If you can find the breakdown
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: by week, I could. I actually think that that's somewhere
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: where I thought they improved in this game. I thought
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the last two games when they missed tackles it created
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: more yardage in this game, like the one play that
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: stands out to me. It was in the fourth quarter,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Steels are trying to run out the clock. Kiris Tonga
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: shoots in the backfield, blows up a run play and
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: he I think it's Joshua Farmer, who's with him? I
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: keep saying this on the air and then forgetting who
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: it is and going back and looking and then forgetting again.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's Joshua Farmer who's in there with him,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: or some other tackles in there with him. Maybe it
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: was Durden, And like Tonga can clearly see that he's
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: not the only one who got back there. And he
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: goes for a big hit, and he goes to the
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: ball and he tries to make an explosive play defensively,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: he ultimately misses the tackle, but Durden and I think somebody,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I think the splaying or somebody else got in there
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and cleaned it up. And Jalen Warren got no extra
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: yards off the miss tackle. I think even might have
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: lost the yard relatively speaking. That's a coaching point for
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of teams. Like, if you know the football right,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: if you know you have help around you, try to
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: make a play. If you're the first guy in make
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: a play, teamates will clean it up. Don't do that
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: in the open field where there's nobody around you to help.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: But if you're swarming and you know you're gonna be
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: the first guy and swarm, make a play, and if
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: they're missing tackles that way, that doesn't bother me like, yeah,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you'd rather the first guy bring them down, but if
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: there's no extra yardage and over the course of the
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: season it produces a couple of fumbles, I'm all for it.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: It felt like, and they were still some of those
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: open field miss tackles in this game. Chrishnell has had
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: a bad one and those are the kind of plays
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: that I thought burned them the last couple of weeks
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: where there was a mistackle and they weren't swarming the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: ball and guys were gonnain.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Those missed one right in the whole on outside zone
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: and in the run game to eleven yards.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: So then this last game was the highest missed after
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: a mistackle total out of any of the mistackles.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: That's obviously not what you want. Yeah, but if you're
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: missing tackles because you're just swarming to the ball, the
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: first guy is trying to make a play, which is
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: more what I thought they didn't more against the Steelers, Right. Yeah, again,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: you don't want to be missing the tackles at all,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: but that's not really that detrimental.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: One hundred and eight yards over the course of three
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: games is still you know, thirty five yards game or whatever.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: That math is like, that's that's thirty five yards you'd
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: like to have back in an ideal world. But to
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: your point, if they're swarming to the ball, if they're
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: getting multiple hats there, and then I think the play
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: that I posted that unfortunately they didn't recover the fumble. Yeah,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: but Kyle Dugger, they run, you know, the Steelers run
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: a boot and they slide John new Smith underneath the
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: formation and across the field, and Kyle Duggar wins the
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: foot race to the edge against John new Smith and
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: makes him cut back into the middle of the field,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and Harold Landry clocks him from the side and forces
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: a fumble. Like that's kind of what you're talking about.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Of Like, Dugger's job on that play is just to
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: make sure that John who doesn't get the edge, and
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: he kind of does his job, and then Landry comes
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: in and cleans up. And one of the big things
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: with Rabel and one of his non negotiables is effort
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: and finish. And I think this defense is playing with
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: excellent effort and finish. And I think that that's where
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: that number speaks to in terms of the yards after
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: miss tackles or yards after contact that they're limiting. That's
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: all effort and finish. That's eleven guys flying to the
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: football to make the you know, plays on the ball,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: whether you make the first tackle or not. So the
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: mistackles itself is in the bad category, but I do
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: think that the context is important of how much is
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: it really burning them? And the one play that Verbele
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: mentioned because he brought this up last week, the point
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: that I'm making. The one play that Rabel mentioned was
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the HM touchdown before halftime in Miami. That's a play
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: where you miss a tackle and you end up giving
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: up a thirty yard touchdown. Those are the ones you
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: can't have. But these other little mistackles here and there,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: where you know, your Tonga example, the Dugger example, like,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: those are ones that you can kind of live with
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: because you're not giving up anything. You're not giving up
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: any extra yards from it, right And to your point,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: maybe you make a play on the ball and you
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: actually force a turnover by being aggressive there and trying
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to blow the guy up. So all of it is
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: is kind of you know, I think the mistackled thing,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I would say it's being overblown,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: but I do think that there's some positive thing coming
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: out of it.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: There's certainly room to get better. I thought the tackling, though,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: was better in this game than it was compared to
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the first two weeks, especially by Roberts splain, which we'll
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: get Robert all right.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: The last bad I think we might disagree of where
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: this is categorized, but I put it in the bad
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: and not the stuff that gets you beat is the
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: five penalties for first downs. So they got called for
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: five penalties that led directly to first downs in this game.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: The biggest one was the holding call in alex Austin
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: that wiped out a strip sack for Milton Williams backed
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: up on the Steelers' own goal line, so instead of
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: fourth and punt from like the Steelers one yard line,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it's a new set of downs, and the Steelers ended
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: up scoring a touchdown on that drive and going up
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: fourteen to nothing. Those penalties are are hurting them considerably
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: in these games. Calebon Chason two more penalties in this
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: game on defense, Marcus Jones a personal foul, which was
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: a legit call. You can't chop down blockers like that
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: in the open field anymore. So all of these penalties
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: that are, you know, kind of especially the ones I
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: would say that are taking off negative plays like the
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Milon Williams sack. Those ones they can't have. That's it's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: bad football and they need to cut it out. I
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: don't know if you agree with me not putting this
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: in the stuff that gets you beat category.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: It's textbook stuff that gets you beat. You're giving away
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: free for it. And I look again, it was it
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: was called tiki tack. I don't think the refs are
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the reason that the Patriots lost this game.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: It was you know, there were definitely some ticky tack
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: annointant calls. I I would penalties and turnovers are things
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: they can you beat. I think that that's textbook.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Well, if they they could have had all five of
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: those turnovers or all five of those penalties, excuse me,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: And if they didn't turn the ball over five times,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: they still win the game by a touchdown. So to me,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: it's just like, yeah, they were not good and they're
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: in the bad category, and you want to eliminate them,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: just like the mistackles. But it's not necessarily. I don't
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: think that you're losing games because of those penalties.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: If they even turn them all over three times and
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: still losing the same way. The penalties are the headline.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I still think the penalties are what get you beat, all.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Right, the stuff. I knew you were going to disagree
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: with me on that. That's cool.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Well, because the nerds don't believe in penalties.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not really, Uh, you don't believe it is strong?
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Is strong, but not as not as detrimental to the
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: teams as the turnovers are.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: So I will say this to the And I don't
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: know exactly the stat Vrabel was referencing, but I've seen
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: some people run with it, maybe beyond his context. So
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing him because I'm sure he's more informed,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: but I think people just hear a line and parrot
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: it because he said the other day, like, the penalty
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: margin isn't as indicative of winning as some people think
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, okay, I'm curious where that line is drawn.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Are we including games where one team had one more
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: penalty in the.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Other, Well, usually I would say it's by penalty the yardage, or.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Like, okay, well weigh fifty five pounds the yard because it's.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: It's really more. And this is going to drive you crazy,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: But it's really more about like when the penalties are
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: and like in terms of win probabilities and stuff like that.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Like there's a big difference between the penalty I brought up,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: which was the holding call on Alex Austin that wiped
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: out of Milton Williams stripsack and an off side by
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: calevon Chase on on first down, right like.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: That, Well, I think to the point, that's fair, Like
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: not every penalty's created different. I think my bigger issue is, like,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: however you want to saying that the penalty number isn't
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: fully on the line of who wins or loses doesn't
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: mean carte blanche, go commit all the penalties you want
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: because ultimately doesn't impact the game and we shouldn't care.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Those two are not the same thing, because if you're like,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: this is where and again I don't think Vrabel's doing this,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: but I think some people hear this line and run
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: with it. Oh, there's no correlation between committing penalties and
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: win loss, so we should totally ignore the penalties. But
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry if you're a team that's getting penalized and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: this isn't what the Patriots are, but like, if you're
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: a team that's getting penalized twelve times a game, it
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: is going to be hard to win. So that's not
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: to say you can't have penalties, because to your point,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's more about the context of the penalties
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: and the way the game's being called more than anything else.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: So I yeah, Like the thing is is that it's
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: what he's saying and what I am an agreement with
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: him on. Is that on the list of crap that
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: gets you beat. Yeah, it's not going to be as
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: high on the list as some of these other things
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: that we thought.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Depends I don't think the answer. I don't think that
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: that's a yes or no thing.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: I So just to look at it, I'm gonna I'm
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: gonna nerd out for a second and annoy you, which
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: is exactly why I'm doing it. So the top ten
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: plays in this game in terms of win probability added
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: or subtracted, so basically the most impactful plays in the
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: end higher game. Drake May's stripsack, Rimandre's fumble on the
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: goal line, a touchdown to Hunter Henry, Aaron Rodgers' interception
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: touchdown at Calvin Austin at the end of the game.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Actually the fourth and one scramble by Drake May is
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: on here. Uh, the Antonio Gibson fumble, Vermandre's first fumble,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Drake May's interception in the end zone, and then the
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: ten yard play to Kenneth Gainwell that put the Steelers
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: into field goal range on their game winning drive. Nowhere
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: on that list is penalties. Okay, it's touchdowns, it's interceptions,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: it's turnovers, it's it's key plays in the actual plays.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Not but that's using the formula that the nerds who
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: don't believe in the penalty is created. So you understand
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: that's a little bias, right, I.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: We'll get to this all on.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Hang on just here. Yeah, teams that commit ten or
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: more penalties in the last ten years only win forty
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: four percent of the time.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you could do that with anything. Teams that
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: teams that only throw for one hundred and fifty yards.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Here's my point. But no, But because one hundred and
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: fifty yards is an ab normally low.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Number, okay, right, ten penalties is an a normally high numbers.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Right, So that's my point. There's no correlation between penalties
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: and winning. No one said there's notion, What was the
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: exact I don't want to miss quote what was the
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: exact that it's just impactful.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: So the three loss as much as other three things
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: that he highlighted that impact win loss at the most.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: And this isn't to say that these don't other things
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: don't impact it at all. It's just the three most
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: important things. Turnover margin, yep epau per dropback or like
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: passer rating or whatever you want to use to UH
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: for quarterback efficiency, and rush differential. Those are the three things. Now,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: rush differential is more about like when you have a
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: lead late, you're going to start running the differential?
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Is it the cart or the horse?
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: All right? So just on the pet So okay, penalties
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: aren't the most impactful thing, but it can be if
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: you let them become a problem in the average.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: So why it's in the bads?
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: It's just so okay, But this is this is you
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: can't The reason I put it in things that get
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: you beat is because they add up quickly and if
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: you limit them. Yes, they're not things that get you
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: beat if you keep them to a reasonable amount. But
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: it's really easy for fake Again I'm not accusing verbelists,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: but it's really easy for some fans who subscribe to
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: the analytics to look at that and say, well, I'm
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: not going to worry about the penalty number because it's okay,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: tory about eight penalties in a game with a crew
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: that's flag heavy doesn't get your beat, But that doesn't
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: mean you, like, you still have to clean it up.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: You still absolutely have to clean the bad. To me
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: is like the stuff that gets you beat is self
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: inflicted wounds. That's what I look at that category being
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: not all right like this. You know, it's not one
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: off bad plays, it's not the other team making plays,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: it's not it's the things that are solely self inflicted
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: that are fixable. A lot of those penalties are solely
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: self inflicted things that are fixable, and you can't let
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: that number run.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Up this team in this regime. And I didn't want
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: to do this now. I wanted to do this in
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: the second hour, but I just just to finish this
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: debate we're having here. This team that we are watching,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: in this regime that we are building here in New
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: England is analytically driven. And so you and your brethren
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: can all sit over there and you can all be
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: stubborn and just not accept it. For what it is,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: or you can just understand that all thirty two teams
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: are headed in this direction, the Patriots included. So I
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: just don't really understand, like I guess, I just the
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: stubbornness is And I'm not like trying to come at you.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't understand why we can't just
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: accept the fact that this is the way that it is.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: And so instead of just trying to completely bad at
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: all the time, like just understand it. I'm not talking
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: about you. You understand the picture.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I think big picture because people don't want their sports
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: determined by numbers, and a lot of people see what's
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: happened with baseball and they don't want it going that
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: far to the point where it takes that we love
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: about the game. And they said that in baseball, No.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: This is a different sport. It's a different sport, and
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: I I think the team sport baseball is not a
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: team sport.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: I I I think the other side of it is
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you your brethren. Yes, we're spent so much time speaking
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: down to my group. When Vrabel was, oh, you want
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: another meat head, Yeah, we're gonna he's Ben Johnson and
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: his changed to number. That's what we got to do.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: This isn't what he was in Tennessee. So I I
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: was going off of what I knew. If I had
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: known that he was going to be uh so analytically
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: driven and taking all of this information that the analytics.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: Been in Cleveland, and he's talked about how much that
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: experience has changed him.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: I guess. I mean, look, I I he's always had
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: stretch with him, who is, by most accounts, maybe the
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: best analytics guy in the entire NFL. But it felt
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: like in Tennessee. And I wasn't watching Rabel press conferences
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: in Tennessee like I'm watching him at the Patriots, But
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: it felt like in Tennessee that he was much more
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: of that thing go by your gut, you know, instincts
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: and things like that. His decision making throughout and also
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: some of the answers, like the answer that he had
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: about like you know, teams that turn it over five
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: times only win five percent, and like he has all
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: these numbers that that is not the Rabel I remember
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: from Tennessee.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: All says this. When we had the big argument Ben
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Johnson versus Mike Brady, just listen, we were in those
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: low comfy chairs and we had that whole drag out thing,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: and that was probably the best show we've ever done.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed that immensely. At one point the conversation became
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: and I think that this was ultimately the debate. We
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: agreed there were flaws with Rabel. We agreed there were
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: flaws with Ben Johnson. Yeah, And I remember asking you this,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: is it easier to take a culture building coach and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: have him adjust schematically or is it easier to take
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: the schematic analytics coach and have him learn to be
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: a character builder? And I said, give me the guy
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: that connects on a human level that we know can
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: do that, and you put some different coaches around him,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: you put some different coordinators around him, and maybe the
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: philosophical approach to the football is a little different. That's
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: what I wanted from Mike Rabel. Is that not exactly
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: three I mean it's three games, but like, yeah, but
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: you would want to know. You wanted analytics, you wanted
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: heavy motion, you want it outside zone. What are they
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: doing Evan? Yeah, and and but that, but they're doing
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: everything you wanted. But we got the guy that has
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: actually established a culture.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: So really, and I'm not like mad about it, Like, really,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: what I know you're not mad about it, but really,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: what we're what we're getting right out of this marriage,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: which I think is what's happening here is this is
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: this feels so far a lot like the Detroit Lions,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: where Dan Campbell is mister kneecaps right, like he's biting
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: off knee caps and stuff like that. But when you
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: actually that's Dan Campbell's personality, that's his outward facing personality.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: But when you actually look at the process by the Lions,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: the Lions are probably the most analytically driven team in
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: the NFL.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Look, every time we talk about a team, you say
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: that the most analytically driven. Did you said about the
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Browns the other day?
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Well, the Browns try to be, but like the Lions
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: do it at the Lions successfully do it? Okay, right
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: the Lions, I mean, come on, Like the fourth down
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: decision making that the Lions are doing is all analytically driven,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: and the Patriots fourth down decision making so far has
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: all been analytically driven too, So like it.
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: I like it.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I like where they're headed now the offense stuff. I'll
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: just say this not to take anything away from Rable
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: and and what he's brought into the table. I do
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: wish that there were a little bit more credit going
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: to the offense to Josh, because I think Josh McDaniels,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of talk right now that
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels is bending the need to the way that
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Rabel and Vrabel's guys want to run the offense. It's
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: West Coast, right, They're turning into a West Coast offense,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: and I think that's really unfair to the guy calling
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: the plays and the guy that's the offensive coordinator by
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: title and is, you know, one of the best in
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: the league in my opinion, and that's been my opinion
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: for a while now. I just to try to make
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: it like there's this like you know, inner turmoil of
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: like who's in charge and like who gets to run
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: the I that's just not like fair to me to McDaniels,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: because I think McDaniel's doing a great job not only
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: with the offense and the system and the scheme, but
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: also with Drake May and he deserves that credit. That
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that Rabel doesn't deserve any of the credit,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: but I just that would be the only pushback that
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: I would have towards all this right now. But analytics wise,
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: what they're doing offensively is exactly what I wanted. And
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: I'm just surprised that Rabel has gone this far this way.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: I did not think that he would be this kind
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: of coach. You thought that he was going to do this.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: You're smiling over there like you knew this was coming.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: I remember saying at the time, No, you did not know,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: not to this extent. Fair, but no, I remember. Part
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: of my take at the time was he's not let's
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: see the staff he hires, right that with Ben Johnson,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: so much is on him because the things he does well,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: you can hire coaches to do well. The things we
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: didn't know about him, you really couldn't substitute the things.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: The things we knew Mike Rabel did well are things
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: you can't Your personality is your personality. Your ability to
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: connect on a human level is not. It's a hard
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: you can't really learn that.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: It's two different brands. He has made it two different brands.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Whereas some of the schematic stuff, and if so, the
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: schematic stuff, I thought there was a chance into this
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: that they were going to come in and it was
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: going to look different like what he did in Tennessee.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: The analytics stuff, all right, that's a little surprising, but
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: it's kind of the same idea. Mike Rabel doesn't have
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: to be the biggest analytics guy on the planet, but
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: if he if you think, if you're somebody whoinks it's important,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: he's opened the door to it, and he's gotten people
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: and who can do it.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they've expanded the department. I mean, stretches is stretched.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: But they hired like five or six people I remember
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Yah hiring. Not to relitigate this whole thing again.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take a victory lot because it's only
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: two games in, but just to revisit the conversation now
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: that we have it happening in practice, hiring Ben Johnson,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: who who is going to be able to handle some
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: of the character stuff that because Rabel has started to
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: change the culture. It's not done yet, but he's clearly
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: started to change the culture and the player is clearly
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: truly believe in what he's doing. Like if Ben Johnson
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't able to rise to that as a head coach,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: the Bears are what one. I'm using Ben Johnson because
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: he was the guy, but like Mike McDaniel is probably
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: the better example, right because that was my worst case scenario.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: But that's that's what you risk when you hire that guy,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: is that he's a great x's and o's mind, But
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: is he a leader of men? And you can't substance.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: You can't hire somebody else. We see teams try to
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: do that. Who was was it no Staley? Staley? Remember
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: they had to hire somebody to essentially like be the
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: head coach on game days.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: But Staley is also a defensive guy, right, But like
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: you can't and you can't subside. So far we both
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: got and what we've wanted out of this, which is awesome.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: But besides the fact that they're wanting to yah. But
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I know, big picture looking at the rebuilt. But here's
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: the I don't think.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: I only think splitting, like like having your cake and
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: eating it too. I think Rabel's the only guy who
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: offered them that opportunity. I don't think any of the
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: other coaches we talked about this offseason would have come
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: in and been able to go both ways the way
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: he has.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Fair Enough, All right, let's get to the stuff that
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: gets to be and then we got to take a
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: break and do some reeds and pay the bills a
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: little bit here. Yeah, but uh, you know, really the
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: five turnovers four of the fund the four fumbles are
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: pretty self explanatory, Okay, like Remandre fumbled twice, Gibson fumbled,
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: got to hold onto the book. They're a little they're
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: all a little different, but like, can we break it
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: down a little bit, I guess, But I really wanted
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: to talk about the interception. But yeah, okay, here's what
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: take Yep, the Drake May one, because I think three
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: of them are avoidable. Are mostly they're all avoidable, but
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: three of them are relatively avoidable.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: The Drake May one. I actually pulled the stopwatch out
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: for this. He was in the pocket for six point
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: one seconds. It's entirely too long to be in the pocket.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that Drake May should never hold
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: the football. I like his ability to extend plays and
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: create off structure, and that's all good, and I have
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: no problem with him doing that.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: But at a certain point, I know when the journey's over, well.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: It's not even that, just leave the pocket, go do
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: all that over there, because when you're am I wrong,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: like when you're asking your lineman all five your linemen
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: to hold up for that long, that's a major ask.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: And if he at least rolls out well now, especially.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Once he starts running around, because now, like I've seen
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: this clip, was hard to cut you off, but like
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: I've seen this clip, you know, go out there and
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: like Will Campbell's just kind of standing around. But once
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: the quarterback breaks out like that and starts running around
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: like there's nothing the lineman can do, right, like you
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: don't know where he is, and then you're then you're
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: gonna get holding and like it just at that point,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: the lineman is kind of you know, like at the
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: quarterback's mercy, like the tricky thing is, like that's why.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: So he kind of runs around, but he stays in
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: the same place. Yeah, he just sort of runs in
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: certain you got to bail out.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: So that's why he got into the twister little.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: I have no problem with him holding the ball. The
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: issue wasn't holding him the ball entirely, but at a
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: certain point you got to know when to leave the
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: pocket and continue to try to make something else happen,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: especially on first down, Like.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was that fumble was you know, I actually
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: think they got what they wanted from a pass game perspective,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: they they had Kyle Williams running a double move on
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: the right sideline and Drake tried to pump off the
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: corner and get Williams vertical, and Williams didn't get open,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: but the safety like jumped it over the top. And
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: they had Henry on the opposite seam against Drew vill
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Peppers and man to man coverage, and Henry was winning
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: up the seam on Peppers. And then when Drake came
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: off the pump, you know, to the double move, and
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: came to the seam, there was a collision in the
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: middle of the line and there was there was bodies
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: at his feet, and when there was the bodies at
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: his feet, he kind of got happy feet a little
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: bit and got he couldn't step into the throw to Henry,
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: and so he pulled it down. But what I would
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: like to see you more so than just like the
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: running around is kind of secondary to this, Like that's
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: obviously got to stop, but I think he's got the
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: arm talent to just let that thing just and there's
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: nobody over the top of it because the safety's over
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: the top of Kyle Williams. So like if you just
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: aren't like if you throw an actual deep ball and
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: not like a seam, not like a drive throw, but
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: actually just kind of loop it up there, like the
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: worst case scenario is that it's gonna Yeah.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if some of that is, you know,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: the emphasis on setting his feet after the first couple weeks.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Just roll out. But the irony was that he was
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: trying to avoid a turnover and then he.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: And yeah he was too paranoid about one thing. So again,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: just just roll out, just roll out. That's all massive
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: on that one, the Antonio Gibson one, that one look
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: hold on to the football, but tip your captain j
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: of broll Peppers. It's a heck of a play. We
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: saw him make that play here, a toide gets lower in,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: the running back gets his helmet on the football. Probably
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: little easier with that guardian camp. He got a more room, right,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: And again you don't want to see a fumble. But
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: that was the one that I looked at, Right, that's
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: a really competitive play by the defense, and the defense
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: made that play happen. And you know, not to again
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: not to totally excuse it, but I thought that was
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: a good play. The Stevenson ones were weird because he's
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: like through the line and he gets grabbed from behind.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: From like three gaps over too.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: I know though, those ones to me felt avoidable.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those ones were weird.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Because you can't even really he's through again, he's through
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: the line, yeah, and it's it's just contact from behind.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: He seems to lose track of the ball.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Will get more to Stevenson, but yeah, so yep, no,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: I'm with you on all of them. With the interception,
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: and this kind of segues into the next thing I
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: wanted to talk about just the interception, situational football in general.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Two for four in the red zone with two turnovers,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: so that's not only are you taking touchdowns off the
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: board in the red zone, but that you're taking points
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: to get all together off the board by turning it
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: over twice in the red zone. And then you know,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: obviously this conversation that's on going about popping Stevenson that well,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: we'll get to that specifically after the break. But on
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: the interception, I think that there's a couple of things
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: at play here. The biggest one to me is it's
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: the round ball, and he talked about this after the game.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: He tried to drive it through the first window instead
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: of trying to just throw it over the top. So
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: like in that case, you got to throw that ball
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: to the back of the end zone and it's either
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: out of bounds or it's keish on booties, Like there's
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: no there's no way that the corner comes in play.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, you know it's the wrong
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: ball and that's on Drake. Also, just quickly, Brady has
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: talked about this. The ball gets tipped a lot in
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: the low red zone, and if you throw it high,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna it's not gonna get tipped. Like the
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: only reason why cam Hayward gets a hand on it
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: is because Drake tries to drive the ball through the
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: defense instead of layering it over the top of the defense.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: If he throws that ball of the air underneath it,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: then cam Hayward's hand never comes into play either. So
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: it's just that was created all by Drake in terms
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: of the type of throw that he made on the play. Now,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: the pop Douglas of it all, I think a real
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: sneaky thing that goes unnoticed on this play. The Patriots
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: tried to run. You know, it's becoming a very staple
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: red zone concept. They tried to run a zipper motion
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: or a return motion where Pop's going to motion into
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: the formation and then he's going to fire out into
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: the flat, and they're basically running smash like corner flat
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: and they're trying to high low the corner out there
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: where if the corner goes back and plays the corner,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: then he's gonna throw the flat. If he jumps the flat,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: he throws the corner. And the issue that happens here
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: is that Pop like doesn't really run the flat, like
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: he kind of gets caught up in some bodies, you know,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: on the motion, and then he doesn't really get all
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: the way out to the flat, and that just really
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: freed up the corner to play to just kind of
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: play that corner route there by booty. So this comes
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: back to all the Pop stuff that I want to
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: get to when we come out of the break of
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: just the awareness and like the the attention to detail
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: that I think his game is still missing. That is
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: really what's holding him back at this point. If he
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: runs that flat and the corner was already kind of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: coming up to jump the flat, then that's an even
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: easy even if it gets tipped. I think that might
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: still be a touchdown anyways, even through the tip, but
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: because the corner is able to come off the flat
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: because of Pop Douglas route, he gets into the wind
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: and picks off the pass. So that situational football stuff.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about some of that with Pop
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: and the awareness. I want to talk about Remandre and
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: what the future hole is there for him. But we're
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: gonna throw this to break real quick, as we got
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: to pay some of the bills.
• 1:02:15
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  Speaker 2: All right, Let's let's breeze through three, up through down here,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: and then we're gonna take your calls and emails. And
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: I do want to talk about Stevenson and Pop and
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: our takes on that as situation. Those situations plural as well,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: So let's just breeze through these. Number one up for
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: me was Hunter Henry in this game nine eight catches,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: ninety yards, two touchdowns gains of eighteen fifteen and then
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: sixteen yard touchdown on fourth and two. Great play by him,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: great throw by Drake may. I just thought Hunter Henry
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: was was nails in this game.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: He's really good. Yeah, I'll leave it's still good at
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: this age. And he's going to be a big part
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: of what they do.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: It also made a sneaky downfield block on Drake's fifteen
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: yard scramble in the second quarter. Just a really good game.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Also came back in the game after it looked like
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: he'd gotten hurt at one point.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really good game.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: That's the guy that needs to stay healthy. My every
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: one was Robert Splaine. You see how differently, and he
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: wasn't the entire reason the defense played better, but you
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: see how differently the defense operates when he's on his
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: game and tackling and you know, flying to the football.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: So they need him. We talked about this last week
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: there with where they're struggling with linebacker play. There's a
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: couple of things they can do here and there to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: maybe compensate for that elsewhere. But really a lot of it,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: as much as we like to do the in depth
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: on this show, a lot of it really simply was
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: just that he needed to play better, period, full stop. Yeah,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: and so it's good to see him. There's still a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: little room improved, but it's good to see him get
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: back on the right track and look more like the
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: player we saw this summer, and that we've seen him
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: be in the past.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had him to you know, the pick three
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: run stuffs, fourteen total tackles. Just he was kind of
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: all over the place in this.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Game, which is exactly what you expect.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Now. The fifteen yard are to warrant on the final
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: drive is him, you know, it's that's his zone and
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: his coverage. But that's not really his game. Like the
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: game that they let him play for the majority of
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: this game is the game he needs to play, you know,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: cleaning up and just hustle and you know, see ball,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: get ball, read and react, you know that sort of thing.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: I thought that they had him in better positions. I
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: thought that he played a lot better in this game.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Zero miss tackles in this game for him, just a
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: big improvement from Roberts Plaine yep. Number two Hunter Henry, Yeah,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: number three kiros Tonga, that's beast. He is a beast.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: How awesome is Kyrie just comes in completely unassuming site.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: He was like the last guy they signed that day
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: they signed Splain and Milton Williams. It was like a
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: really busy day. It was like him and Mac Williams
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: or I was home at that point, like eating dinner
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: kind of a throw in.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: I think like I was on with you or somebody
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: one of the shows I did when were doing the
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: free agency recap, like skipped Kyris Tong. He was just
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: skipping him, some fringe guy. No, he's he's a baller dude.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: He's awesome and he's fun to watch and you can
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: tell he his fun playing a game. It's getting into
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: the backfield against the run. He's getting into the backfield
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: against the pass, really really really good find early by
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: this front office.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: There was multiple run stuffs that he contributed to that
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: he didn't necessarily make the tackle, yeah, but his penetration
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: is what blew up the play. And then he also
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: drew a hold where he put Zach Frazier, the Steelers center,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: just on skates and the guy just had to hold
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: on to him for dear life. He The only thing
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: that I can think of that is keeping his snapcount
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: low is conditioning like he's a three hundred and thirty
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: five pound guy.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: So that's the only thing a game two other really
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: good defensive time, but he's just wrecking things whenever he's
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: So now maybe that's the best role for him is
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: to play twenty twenty five snap.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: I think it is. Maybe that's just what and maybe
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: you up it a little bit as you get more
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: of the year and you can give Barmore and Williams
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: a little more rest when you need. But I mean
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: he's the third guy in that room. But it's a
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: good Is that their best room right now?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: Probably?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean mel Williams is awesome defensive line.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: You want to throw Harold Landry in there.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: So, So Harrol Landry was the other guy that I
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: had written down two pressures forth fumble, also tackle for
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: loss and coverage, you know, dropping out as the end
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: and tackling the running back there. I just think he
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: makes like four or five impactful plays a game. I
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: agree where I'm jotting down, you know, Harold Landry's name.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: So I was really impressed with him. On the downside,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: I personally stayed away from Pop and Stevenson. I think
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: those are obvious. I wanted to kind of talk about
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: some of these guys that I think were kind of
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: on the downs that maybe weren't as obvious as the
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: two most obvious ones.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Ball security as one that includes Ramandre and Drake may
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: to an extent.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: So my number one downs in this game where Christian
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Ellis and Alex Austin, who both got benched in the game.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: And I said earlier, I thought it was good that
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: they showed some accountability on the defensive side of the
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: ball by by benching them. But they were hoping, especially Ellis,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: but I would say Austin too, as kind of that
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: third or fourth cornerback. But these guys were going to
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: be contributors for them, not stars, not you know, high
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: impact players, but contributors. And the linebacker spot next to
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: Splaine now is a question mark. I'm honestly week four,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of talking about Jolanie Tvai in my head again,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: like is that an answer for them when he comes
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: back off injured reserve? Alex Austin, you know, at this
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: point that doesn't seem very playable at corner, which is
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: a bummer because I thought that he had a great
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: camp and I thought he had a great end of
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: the season last year, and I thought he was kind
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: of coming on as a contributor and a player that
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: they could rely on. And they just don't really seem
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: like they can rely on either of those guys. So
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: a hit for your linebacker depth and a hit for
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: your cornerback debt.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where they didn't have a lot of depth at
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: linebacker before that that one especially.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Uh so you had ball security, had ball security.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: I just had that sequence on the goal line, Like
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: I know, you just kind of sang Josh mcdangel's praises
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to put him as a down
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: because for the most part they were good in that game.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: You got to run the ball there at least once. Yeah,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: you got to run the ball there at the end
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: of the half.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Checked out of a couple I think, yeah, it's specific.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: I think Drake specifically said second down it was a
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: run play and he got to look the they were.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: They were blowing the Steelers line off the ball at
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: that point. That was a long drive to that defense
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: was gassed. Put the big heavies in row, a six
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: offensive linemen in there, put somebody in the backfield as
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: a full back, and just make them just sheer will stop.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: I think will And this isn't just caveman, you know,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: run well no, no, no, let me explain some mo.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: This isn't just caveman. You're on the goal line, run
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: the goal like go to the goal line play formation
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: in the Madden playbook can run it. That was like
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: an eight minute drive. Take advantage of the fatigue of
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: those guys and blow them back off the board.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: You're right, and I think one of the good things or.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Five wide QB power.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: They haven't done that yet, which I don't know exactly
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: why not, so I'll be honest.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: That's in uh not mad but in like the college
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: game this year. That's like something that's really hard to defend.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: You go five wide and you either hit the quick
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: screen or you just QB power it if they have
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: too many guys in the box, and it's so hard
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: to stop if you have the right quarterbacks. So I'm
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: obsessed with that plane.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Now they did a lot with Cam in twenty twenty.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: Now Cam's a different animal. He is two hundred and
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: fifty pounds, but that's in the bag, like that's in
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: the well.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: That would have been I think that would have been
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: a good time to pull it out.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: They've motioned the running back a couple of times to
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: get indicators, and every time they motion them out into
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: empty I keep thinking that that QB power is coming,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: and then they motion them back in and they don't
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: do it. So at some point I think that the
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: design quarterback runs will come out. Maybe they're saving those
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: for later in the season for kind you know. I
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: know this is kind of silly to say with the
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: rebuilding team, but like bigger stakes.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: And Josh has history of that.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we said this.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: His offense is never the same in December, that is
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: in September.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, Uh. Number two for me it was Will Campbell.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: I thought Will Campbell struggled in this game, and I
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: want to be fair and I want to be objective.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: I sing his praises all the time when he's good.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't want to be you know, I
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: don't want to run away when he's when he's bad.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: In this game, I had him with six pressures, PFF
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: had him with four. I think some of the things
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: seven they did after the game, but there they dropped it.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: They review it. Uh. The some of the short corners,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: the beauty is in the I the beholder like do
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: you is it too short?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 6: Is it not?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: Like the around the corner, you know, short corners like
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: you can kind of gauge at eye probably was a
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: little bit more nitpicky on some of those than PFF.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: And that's why we had slightly different number. You want
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: to split the difference and call it five, we can
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: call it five.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: We'll call it five.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: Five is a little bit too much. Now. The one
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: thing that I really concern me the most about it
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: not concerned, but like the reason why he's on the downs,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: the inside moves, Like that's the one thing that I
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: don't want to see Campbell give up. I want to
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: see him fix that. Herbig got him twice on inside moves,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: one of them down on the goal line on the
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: throw to Hunter Henry on the first down play, I
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: want to say it was second Yeah, second down one.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: That's why May threw the next one so quickly.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, second down play. He beat there's a you know,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: a blowby beat him clean on an inside move. Then
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: later on in the game he beat him again on
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: an inside move. Campbell wrote him down a little bit
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: better this time, but still registered a quarterback hit. Herbig
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: didn't get the sack, but it led to a sack.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: The pressure led to a sack. I still am fully
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: on board and in on Will Campbell. I looked this
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: up last night because I wanted to kind of get
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: a more big picture of you. He is right in
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: the middle of the pack right now in pass blocking efficiency.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: He's thirty fourth out of sixty two tackles. I will
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: take it average pass protection out of him. His rookie
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: season is exactly what they were looking for, just get
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: back to level at that position. I think he's still
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: an impact run blocker and if he's an average pass protector.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: You know, when they drafted him, we talked about this.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: He's not Jonathan Ogden, He's not Joe Thomas. He was
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: not that level of prospect. He's not Joe all right,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: Like that wasn't the prospect he was. He was much
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: more in that you know, Jake Matthews like type of
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: mold right where he's going to be a good tackle
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: for ten years, but he might not be a he
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: might not have a gold jacket on when this is
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: all said and done, and I think I will take
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: it on the whole. The her big matchup in general
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: is going to give Those are the kind of guys
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: that are going to give him problems. The speed guys
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: that can get out on the edge, that can get
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: him opened up and then open up those inside moves.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: Those are going to be the ones that they're going
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: to have to manage with Will Campbell and maybe chip
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: or slide or send some extra help that direction. Because
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: of the lack of reach, it makes it harder for
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: him to get out to those guys, and so then
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: he overcompensates and then they beat him to the inside.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: So so sorry.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: That was the other thing I noticed too, like they
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: sent more help to the right side in this game
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: than they had spots on right. No, I'm not saying
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: that that's and I think that that's a vote in
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: the confidence of Will Campbell and what he did in
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: the first two games. I had the offensive line as
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: a whole as a down. I thought, you know, Campbell's
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: obviously a part of that.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: He didn't. This was his worst game.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: I will say though, just for reference, I looked this
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: up because I was curious.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 7: So they.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: NFL Pro Next Gen stats whatever you want to call
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: that one had the pressure rate at forty point four percent,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: which is high. Yep, I mean it's you want to
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: be learning that That would have been their eighth highest
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: pressure rate in a game last year.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Better.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: So if this is their floor again, they need to
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: be better than that, and I think they exceeded expectations
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: the first two weeks, which is why this feels so jarring.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I think they're probably somewhere in between what they were
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: the first two weeks and what they were in this game.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: But like, I'll take that as a floor. If that's
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: your worst game or one of your like two or
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: three worst games, you have a solid offensive line. So
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: I think that, you know, we have that kind of
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: performance assuming everybody's healthy. Like, I think that's their floor
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: if they're healthy. Once I start losing guys, that's another conversation.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: But if that's as bad as they get and they
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: don't play that way consistently, and they're better than that consistently, Like,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: I feel pretty good about where they're aut on the
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: offensive line.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: So they faced some individual good rushers, you know, Crosby Watt,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: you know, players like that, like.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: The best group.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: The Steelers front is the best group. It hasn't in
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: terms of strength of schedule. They haven't faced a murderer's
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: row of fronts yet. But just by the numbers, do
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: they the composite raking So Ben Bawling tracks this PFF
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: grade blown block percentage in past rush un lay or
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: pass blocking win rate. The Patriots composite grade right now
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: and those three metrics is seventh in the league. They
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: have the seventh best pass protection in the NFL. Now,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: that seems a little high, just eye test wise, Like,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: I think they're probably more middle of the past.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I think that's so much better. I think that's accurate
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: in terms of what they've done to this point. Yeah,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: I just don't when they face better fronts, it might
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: not be exactly.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: I think they exceeded expectations the first tea games. I
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: don't think they're gonna be that good all the way.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: But so much better, I mean, marketably better than where
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: it was last year, which I know is not the bar,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: but it's still nice, Like it's still refreshing that it's
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: so much better. So you had offensive line ball security, right,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: So aro on three, yep, number three, I want to
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: talk about this a little bit. I think we're on
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: the same page here. I had Travon Henderson as the
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: third down and again this is outside of the obvious
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: ones of Vermandro Stevenson and pop.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Pop.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: So Travon Henderson. I want to see Travon Henderson play more.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: I wanted. I shouldn't say play more. I want to
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: see Travon Henderson succeed. I want him to flourish. I
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: want him to be the guy that we all thought
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: he was in training camp and in the preseason. But
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: so far the tape through three games has not been great.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: I think the main thing that I'm seeing with him.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: I know all of us are talking a lot about
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: the pass protection stuff, which is important and again came
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: up in this game. He allowed another hurry early. He
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: did have a really good rep late in this game
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: in pass protection that was much more indicative of like
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: his college tape in that regard, But another missed, you know,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: blitz assignment early in this game that led to a
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: quarterback hit. But it's the the running in the vision.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: He has a little bit of tunnel vision right now
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: when he runs between the tackles and he's not tempoing
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: runs great.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Right, So like right, what he is something he did
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: so well in college.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: He's literally just smashing into the line of scrimmage right now.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: So do you think into crowds.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Is that a vision issue or is that a patient's issue?
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Both? Okay, I think that he's missing cutback lanes but
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: I also think that because he's going so fast that
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: there's not enough time for him to read and react
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: to the developing.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: More of a vision issue or is it more of
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: a patient's issue.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's more of a patient's issue that feels
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: easier to fix. You have to know, and I said
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: this yesterday on PU running back, is tempoing runs is
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: really important. Yeah, you have to know. You don't have
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: to go one hundred miles an hour all the time.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: You have to know when to put it into first
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: gear and then when to put it into six to
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: three year. And you have to have those different gears
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: as a running back because you need to allow the
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: blocking to develop. You know, the easiest, the best thing
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: that you can do as a running back is let
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: your blockers do the dirty work, like let them get
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: the run going, and then it's your job to then
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: get up to the second and third level and make
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: the unblocked guys miss right like that, that is where
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: your job is. So with Henderson, I think you saw
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: it a little bit too on his screen target as well.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: He's just not seeing the field very well right now
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: in terms of cutting off blocks and patients behind his
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: blocks and all these different things. So I look at
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: it and think that this is just all moving a
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: little bit fast for him right now. I think he's
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: a little bit sped up with his reads and that
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: is very, very common for a young running back. What
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: that being said, the worst thing for them to probably
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: do is to throw him out there for fifty snaps
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: on Sunday, right like they have to. He has to
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: work on these things. So now that being said, his
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: speed is so important to this offense that maybe it's
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: like a package of plays where you're using him almost
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: as like a gadget player, where it's motions, it's screens,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: it's vertical routes out of the backfield. Like it's not
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: traditional offense. It's more of like a package of specialized
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: plays that is meant to get his game breaking speed
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: on the field. Let's call it fifteen to twenty times
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: a game. And I think that's where we're at right
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: now at Trebon.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: And I've talked to this like when he's used as
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: a high volume guy, he's not as effective. That was
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: the case in college to begin with. So yeah, for me,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: out of is it maybe just the speed of the
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: NFL game too, That's part of it because he's used
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: to some lanes that would be there in college, maybe
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: especially bringing right, that just aren't there right now. So
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's not that out of character for a
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: young running back, No, but it is something he needs
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: to improve on. I don't think the answer they're a
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: little stagnant when he's on the field right now. Offensively,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: that's just the reality of it, and you need to
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: give him reps to break through. So I'm not saying
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: don't play them, especially with what's going on with demandre
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: but you also don't want to. I don't think the
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: answer to Trayvon Henderson struggling is more Travon Henderson. I
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: don't think that that's gonna help him. I don't think
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: that's gonna help the team either. To your point, pick
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: your spots, try to get him on the outside maybe
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: a little more.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to see some of that. But
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: they they ran a toss to him and Campbell probably
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: could have gotten into the block a little bit faster.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: But Travon also just like gave him no time to
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: get to the you know, and he just kind of
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: ran right right by Campbell. So I would like to
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: see that too, Like tosses, swing passes, obviously, verticals out
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: of the backfield. You know, they ran one in Miami
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: and they ran that pickplay for him and it worked.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: You know, like things like that that are less, less
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: reading and reacting for him and more let's just get
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: his space and his speed into space.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not like worried about him big picture, but
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: there's just some things he needs to improve on.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I exactly. And you know, ask did you do
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: your third one?
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: My last one was Pop Douglas.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let's let's talk about this.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: Let's let's let's do Remondre first, because I think they're related. Yeah,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: because you know, I got asked on the radio this
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: morning and just.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: To be clear, like this is our take on what
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: they should do with these two guys moving forward.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I got it well, but I think
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: we need to have a The reason I want to
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: do Ramondre first is because I don't think the question
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: is what do you do with Ramondre Stevenson. I think
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: the question is what do you do about the running
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: back room?
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: The room as a whole is all of them have flaws.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: There's no obvious if they had a guy, if Trayvon
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: Henderson was out there lighting it up, or Antonio Gibson
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: was out there lighting it up. It's a lot. It's
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: an easy conversation, right one. I I'm kind of surprised
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: they didn't add it back, and I guess they still can.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: It's Wednesday morning. They have an open roster spot, so
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: let's not roll it out entirely. But the thing with
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Stevenson is, and all right, let me start here before
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: people say I'm being an apologist or I'm making excuses.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: You can't put the ball on the ground, period, but
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: especially the way he's done it, and you look at
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: his history from last year. I'm somebody who said, hey,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: he didn't have a fumble problem in the first three years.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: He had it last year. But let's se if he
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: can get back on track. It looks like maybe he didn't.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: You cannot put the ball on the ground, but period,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: full stop. When he has been on the field, though
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: he's been one of their most explosive players. Offense is
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: running through him, and they have seven plays that have
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: gone for more than twenty yards this year. He is
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: responsible for three of those. When you look at what
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: he did in this game, and it gets overshadowed because
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: of the fumbles, rightfully so. But he converts two third
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: and longs in that game, two third and ten pluses.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: There was another I think it was a third and
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: thirteen ten or third and twelve on that drive in
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: the second half where they're backed up where he gets
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: all but one, makes a defender miss, gets all but
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: one yard, and then he converts the fourth down for
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: them after that was the one all the way back
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: and should have been blown up. He makes a guy
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: clean miss in the open field. Yep, Traveon Henderson is
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: not doing that right now, Gibbs, He's doing it a
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: little bit. I actually think he's been sneaky. Okay, but
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: he fumbled and he also kind of has a fumble history.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: So you can't. You cannot outright ben Tremando Stevenson. You
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: cannot not play him because the offense unless Travon Henderson
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: in one week takes that jump, the offense is going
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: to become stagnant. You're gonna go back to having a
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: lot of three and outs, which none of us want
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: to see, right, or you have to go back to
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: what you did against the Raiders and throw the ball
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: fifty times, which we know doesn't work.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: It's an extremely difficult spot.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: So I think you have to pick your spots where
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: you know he's not going to be targeted as much.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Things like that. The other thing to know with him,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: he's probably gonna get a lot of a lot of
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: yards after contact this week because the Panthers are not
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: gonna be in a rush to bring him down. They're
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: gonna stand them up and get the second and third
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: guy in and punch at the ball. So I I
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: know it sounds crazy like and I'm sure people are
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: annoyed hearing this, Like you got to watch them from
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: you to see all those fumbles last year, and then
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: he fumbles two times in this game and it's costly,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: and I get people might be frustrated with it.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: His fumble on the goal line, to me, was the
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: biggest player.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: That's that's it, And it's an an excuse me. It's
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: not like somebody on the defense made this unbelievablelay to
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: knock it out. The offense when he's not on the
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: field grinds to a halt and is punting better than fumbling, Yes,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: but you can't just have no offense and go back
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: to trying to win all these games ten to seven,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: you can't do it.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: So I think it's an incredibly hard position between to
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: be in right because and Josh, they're trying to preach accountability,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: they're trying to build a program, the trying trying to
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: put guys on the field that play winning football. But
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: at the same time, Uh, this offense right now is
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: built through Hunter Henry and Ormandre Stevenson. They are their
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: two best skill players and they have built the whole
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: thing around those two guys. And you see games from
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: Remandre like in Miami where he was maybe the best
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: player on the field in that game for the Patriots offense.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: And so if you take him out of the equation
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: and you really don't have great backups to go to
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: right now great options because Henderson is.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: The guy can trust right right, Yeah, for different reasons,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: because people we can't trust Evenson. Look, here's the thing
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: I think some people heard Mike Rabel say after the game,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: like we're gonna need him talking about Andree, that's they
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: are going to need him, Like he's not wrong, not
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: cutting him. Like, here's the thing. Both both are true.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: The Patriots need Rmonderie Stevenson on the field to be
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: the best version of what they can be offensively, and
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: the Patriots cannot afford to put Rimondra Stevenson on the
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: field if he's gonna fumble once a game, which he
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: was doing for good Chunk last year, he's doing right now.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: So how do you square those two?
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: It's a rock and heart, but that's that's just where
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: you're at, right It's not always going to be easy
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: in the end. Welcome to the National Football League.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: Right, this is Enables as the head coach, and we
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: talk about the team on the podcast because this is
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: this is an incredibly different difficult spot because of all
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: the things that we're both saying.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: Can I give you what I think the answer is?
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: And this is gonna sound a little simplistic, this is
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: really what I think it is. Yes, you got to
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: split it a third, a third, a third, and just
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: try to put guys in situations where they're going to succeed.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: Get Trevon Henderson to the outside, get him involved in
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: the passing game, but not pass blocking. Get Stevenson going
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: between the tackles. Don't run him too much consecutively because
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: I think that that's where the fumbles happen. For him
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: is when he is on the field and he's carrying
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: a ball five six, seven, eight plays in a row.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: You know, Gibson's pretty well rounded. I think you just
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: mix him in where where you need.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 6: But like.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: A third, a third, a third, and whoever kind of
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: comes out of that looking the best. You start to
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: skew the touches and the carries and the snaps more
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: towards that guy. That's really kind of caveman pounding it,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: you know, using a rock as a hammer. I don't
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: know you got a better answer. What does the math
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: tell you? Evan? Which running back does the math tell
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: you to play?
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: If it was me?
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: This is just no, that's the only question. I'm curious.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: What's n tell you to play?
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: I like in terms of what like yards after you know,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: you know how work better than me. But we're not
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: like you don't like not just you're not just placing
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: like a value on a player like E.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: P A. D v O A.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, Remander is the best player out of the group.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: Who do they have the highest you know, Remondre, I'm
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: telling you, Okay, so like we do this in basketball
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: all the time, right, It's what is this stupid stat
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: you guys use in basketball when this player is on
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: the court, the true plus minus or something whatever, pie
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: player for sure, right, Yeah, Like, who's so Remondre? The
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: numbers tell you they're at their best when Remondres on
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: the field, even with the fumbles.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: And also, I would you know, just adding to all
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: the other things that we've said about what makes for
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: Andre good outside the fumbles, Uh, he's their best pass
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: blocker too well.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: And here's the thing about that, he's by far their
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: best pass and people were asking why he was on
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: the field of times late in this pass game past blocking.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: You can't fumble when you're pass blocked.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: No, he was literally on the field for pasting. The
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: only is the only thing he did when they put
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: him back on the field.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: Which in that sense you can still use him, and
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: you don't if he fumbles about past blocking something so wrong.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: I think. And there's two different sort of sides of
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: this and that, and that's what makes us such a
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: difficult spot for Mike was able to be in. The
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: first thing is preaching culture accountability. Don't do the stuff
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: that gets to beat like all of like the non
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: negotiables for him Remandre. But you know, violated in this game.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: But let me if yeah. The other side of it, though,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: is that in the short term they're best. They're at
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: their best with him on the field. So what's more important,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: like the long term vision of the program or Remandre
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: winning them a game on Sunday against Carolina.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: It's the long term. If the other backs are doing
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: stuff that gets you beat too, getting blown up in
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: pass protection gets to beat Gibson, fumbled like Gibson's fumble
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: gets you beat again. Some of this is not necessarily
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: in defense of Hermandre Stevenson. It's simply you think you
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: have to acknowledge.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: I think you have to sit him against Carolina.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: I do not playing, Yes, I just worry about the
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: offense grinding.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: If you can't beat the Carolina Panthers at home without
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: Rimondre Stevenson, I think this isn't Buffalo. If this was Buffalo,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: just beat.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: The Falcons, I would argue, if anything, it's the opposite. Hey,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: like Buffalo, we need everything we can get and we're,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: you know, up against it anyway, and we need to
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: take some chances. And Rimondre gives us the chance for
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: explosive plaze with.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: The Carolina teams awful. The thirty to nothings score against
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: the Falcons is super deceised. Just they the Falcons imploded,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: like they fired their wide receivers. Coach Zach Robinson's on
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: the hot seat, like your boy Pennix was throwing freaking
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: spraying the ball all over the yard like pick sixes,
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: Like that was that was it? Eosion? Don't play m Andre, Yes,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: I think you.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: Gibson's lead back, and I mean, then do people look
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: at Gibson and be like, why is he allowed a fumble?
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: That guy isn't or Okay, I'm allowed to fumble once
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: without account I know Gibson has a little second fumble.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: I know that Gibson has a little bit of a
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: history from Washington. But it's not nine fumbles in your eye.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: I guess, but it's it's but the message, like if
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna talk about the message of it, he fumbled,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: and you know, you look at Okay, so I can
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: fumble once and not be held accountable, but I can't
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: fumble twice.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: And maybe that's the message.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: Right. You have to at some point, though obviously you
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: have to draw a line. Do you have to asses
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: do you dress him or is he healthy scratching apples?
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, So that you probably
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: have to unless you want to, like call up Terrell
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: Jennings as the third running They probably have so you
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: probably have to dress him as a third running back.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: But then you also create the distraction of him standing
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: on the sideline and not playing. Like it's obviously very
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: very different circumstances, but it's not Butler.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: So right, Like you don't want to do that, But
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: I think, first of all, I think whether he dresses
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: or not, Terrell Jennings, somebody there should be another backup.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: You think they should. They're gonna have to sign or
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: elevate a third running back.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: Do you do? You know you said it's the Caroline
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: Panthers at home.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: They're bad.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: You should beat them. What if it's close late and
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: Henderson's running for two yards of carry and Gibson fumbles again?
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: Like this is not about any of that. But it's
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: not about kidding. No, it can't be, Alex. You can't
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: look at it like that, Like this is not the
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: Carolina about the Carolina Panthers in week four, This is
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: not what it's about. It's about they have non negotiables
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: up in the addit team auditorium, and protecting the football
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: is on the list, and he keeps putting the ball
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: on the ground.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: Like, but if you're if you're Mike Vrabel and you
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: lose the game and the offense is stagnant and Steveson
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: could have it, I didn't look at the team and
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: say I did what's best for the team.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: Because if you can't find a way to move the
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: ball against this Panthers defense without him, then you're porked anyways.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: And honestly, like, I don't think it's gonna come to that,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: Like I really don't, all right, So I I just.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: That's what I would do. Probably, do you think he
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: will play? Yes, I think he's gonna play a little bit.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a reduced role. I think
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: it's mostly gonna be pass blocking. But I think he's
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: gonna play.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: I agree, I think he'll play a little bit. And
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: that and if it's like if he plays like as
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: the third running back and it's pass blocking and things
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: like that to me is essentially benching.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: So that's what I would do. Yeah, Like that, that
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: to me is we're gonna pa you know you're gonna
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: play to pass block, you might get a couple of carries,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: like if a guy needs a spell, somebody gets hurt,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: you use him as a third running back like that,
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: I would demote him. I wouldn't outright bench him and
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: get some of that is just because maybe that's a
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: better way to it. I think you need him to
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: do certain things that the other guys. You need him
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: in a pass block, the other guys aren't gonna do
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: that at the same level.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: I think demoting him and so a benching him is
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: probably a better way to put it. And I think
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: the goal is long term would obviously be to get
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: him back to being the lead guy, because he is
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: your best running back. But I will strongly say though,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: like all you know, I'm not saying it's a lot
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: of people, but like people saying that he should be
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: cut or all like, he's not that's this' relax. But
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: I do think that there needs to be a level
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: of accountability.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: I do think you need to because they we both
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: agree they would they do need him.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, in the season, he might be their best offensive
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: player outside of Drake, like he might be there at
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: least their best offensive skill player. And I don't think
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: that that honestly, I will say that, and I don't
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: think it's necessarily that close. Like him at his best
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: is their best offensive skill player.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: Him saying after the game because he was asked about
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: the comment, you know, Vrabel saying we're gonna need him,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: and he was asked about that, and he's, I think
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: for batim, if I can't hold on the ball, they
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: don't need me. Like he's not wrong, he's not wrong,
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: but men like you can't lose him mentally.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, either.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: So whatever you're gonna do is gonna impact like cause
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: that's when the fumbles will read like there's no coming
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: back from that in any job, whatever you're in. Like
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: we've all gotten discouraged. I'm sure anybody listening you get
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: discouraged in your job and you let it mentally weigh
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: on you. That's a lot like I'll write something, I
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: make a typo, I go and I change it, I
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: forget about it. But if it's like a bad one
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: or I get called out in a way I don't
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: like and like, then it becomes a mental thing and
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: it lags, and then it starts impacting me with other stuff,
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: Like if you know you need him, you do have
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: to be and this is to get back to the
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: leader of men thing. Yes, you can't play him. You can't.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: You can't play him as much as you have and
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: you can't ignore it. You can't create a situation either
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: though where he's just so lost mentally that that you
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: can't fix it because the goal still needs to be
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: long term to fix it. And Okay, so if it
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: becomes a mental block, then there goes.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: That what what are you doing with pop M?
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: So you guys know, I've been as big of a
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: defender Popped Doug as anybody. It's probably time to give
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: somebody else some looks. I don't think the snap counts
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: going to zero. And the thing for me is him
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: and Drake just aren't on the same page and I
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: kind of hope that they get there with more and
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: more reps. And it's just not happening. We talked about
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: this last week. It's it's Kyle Williams. I've been getting
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: asked about Fton Chisholm, and there's going to be a
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: time for Afton Chislm. I know I keep coming on
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: here every week and saying be patient with the Fton
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: Chislm there will be a time for Afton chism. This
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: is not it because, like you talked about Trey Von Henderson,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: there's a straight line speed element with Pop Douglas that
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: when you take him off the field, the offense is
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: slow and Fton chislm is not replicating that.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: I wish they'd taken more advantage of that and run
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: Pop more vertically.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: I think it.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: And also like just the element of Kyle Williams a
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: third round pick. You got to get this guy going.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: You cannot burn another top one underd pick on a
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: receiver doesn't play.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: Is a solution. And I think that this solution in
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: theory sounds great but at the same time have some reservations.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: But really the solution in three receiver sets, I think
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: for most people is Divis goes to the slot, Booty
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: goes to the Z, and Kyle Williams comes on the field.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: Let's so Pop Douglas has been the fourth receiver because
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: it's been yeah, Blin's dig.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: But not an eleven Like it's because they're playing so
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: much too tight end.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm not I'm not playing Kyle Williams and heavy.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: Let's just when you're in heavy you don't need to
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: change anything. Pop wasn't playing that.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: That's different though, I mean, yeah, but maybe that is
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: is it?
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: This might surprise you. And depending on how exactly want
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: to measure this, there's some arguments' Kahon booty, but Stefan
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: Diggs has been their most productive wide receiver. Yeah, no
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: wide receiver on the team's caught more. I think only
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: Hunter Henry's caught more passes and yards. He's second of Booty.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: So do you want to tinker with him right now?
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: Or do you want to build on what he's doing
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: and run Kyle Williams in the slot.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: I just don't think Kyle Williams is the slot. So
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: not a pure slot like.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: Kyle, but you can you he can do the stuff
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: that Pop Douglas was doing.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: He's more to me, he's more vertical than he is horizontal.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: He should be using that role more vertically.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I I look at Diggs and I
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: look at the way that he played in Houston this
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: past year, and it's a lot of the same. The
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: catches that he is making are you know, slants in cuts,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: whips like things like that. Like it is all the
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: slot routes, right like it's all the same kind of thing.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 6: I just.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing with Pop and that role
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: in general, and really you know that slot receiver role
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: that I wrote about at the end of training camp
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: a lot so much of it is having it between
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: the years. Like it's so it's a thinking position. It's
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: the reads. It's knowing where the holes are in coverage.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: It's knowing when it's man versus zone. It's knowing your
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: route depths and like being precise with your routes in
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: that respect, it's knowing where the sticks are right Like
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: these are all like the little things that are adding
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: up for Pop Douglas, and so they have to get
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: if it's not going to be him, then they have
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: to get a more heady, high IQ player in that position.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that Pop doesn't have a role. It
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: just means that maybe that's not his strong suit. And
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: as much as I agree with you that it slows
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: them down in terms of team speed on the field,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: with Chisholm, I think Chishm is gonna have that. I
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: think he's gonna have the game instincts and the feel
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: and the awareness. Now he might not have the burst
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: and the speed and the explosiveness that Pob Douglas has.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: But I hate to say it because I don't know
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: for a fact. Yeah, but my gut tells me that
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: if Eftin Chishom catches that fourth and one play, he's
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: going shouldered down and he's charging up.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: If you don't think you can make this whole decision
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: in off of one play, like, I think you need
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: to look at the picture of the offense.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: But that that play is a microcosm of all of this.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: But that slot guy simply being able to fall forward
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: and get one more yards to two.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: But it's not just it's also occupying the flat on
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: the booty touchdown. It's also like when they run that
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: swing concept out of the spinner, Like he keeps drifting
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: up the field and he makes as Drake May is throwing,
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: the throw is becoming further and further away from the
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: Niger back Like it's route depth, it's precision. It's all
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: these little details that you can run a four to
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: four and be fast and be explosive and be jitterbuggy
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: and all this great stuff. But if you aren't in
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: the right places at the right time, then what what
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: good is any of that?
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: Then when's Kyt Williams gonna play like ever?
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: He's gonna play on the outside.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: You're making the case for Chisholm right now, right, I'm.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: Making a case for somebody else. I think Diggs could
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: probably do this. These all these little things I.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: Would put inside that. I just think if you take
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: Pop Douglas off the field right, get slow you do.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: But so your point was how changing the receiver impacts
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: the way the offense operates. Yeah, I'm looking at it
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: more as what is the change in personnel going to
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: do to the way the defense defends you? And I
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: think when you have that slower group out there, those
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: safeties are going to come up. Teams are going to
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: be more inclined to play bass, even against eleven, and
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: it's just going to make it harder for you to
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: do a lot of the other stuff you want to do.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: So that's why I think it asked me Kyle Williams.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: But Kyle Williams on slot, wherever, wherever. That's why think
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: Kyle Williams is the next guy you go to.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: So what I would do, Yeah, because Hollins is going
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: to play in his role right because of the blocking
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: which has been hit or missed by the way, but
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: he's going to play so better than what you're gonna
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: get the most these So in eleven, like when we're
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: talking about obvious pass, Yeah, I think it's Booty Diggs
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: and Kyle Williams, like I really do now ftin Chisholm,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: I think should probably get some of those pure like
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: why are f slot reps like the Danny ammondol slot reps.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: I think that that's still kind of a role could
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: exist for Chisholm, but it's Kyle Williams on the outside
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: with with Booty and it's Digs in the slot, Like
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: I think that's where you have to go, And I
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: think you have to hope that Digs, what ten year
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: veteran at this point has that extra headiness, that extra
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: field awareness, that extra game sense that Pop just isn't
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: showing right now, and Pop, I think to me, it
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: goes into a role. It was similar to what we
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: were just talking about with Trevon Henderson, where it's package
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: plays of motions and window dressing type things and swings
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: into the flats and you know, maybe some vertical routes,
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: but it's not the Danny Amndola. Julian Edelman Wes Welker
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: Gamut of slot routes that I just don't think that
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: he's fully detail oriented enough to be to thrive in
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: that type of role. And I would also, just like,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: you know, to end it this point, there is something
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: there to the fact that he's only five foot seven
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: and like three quarters or whatever it is, like his
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: height and his lack of catch radius. I don't know
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: how great of a fit that is with the quarterback.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: And I've been saying this for a while now. This
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: is not a new take of mine, and like it
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: just kind of seems to me like it's hard. It's
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: a hard target to hit when Pop is running across
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: the field at full speed on a crossing route and
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: he's running in between spaces in the zone and Drake
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: May has got to throw it to like the second
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: zone window like on the cross or that he airmiled
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: that almost went intercepted, and he's got a five foot
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: eight slot receiver that he's trying to hit within in
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: between two zone defenders. Like, it's just not a really
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: big target, especially when he's moving across the field. So
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: I think that's an element of this as well. But
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: at some point you know, just like they did on
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: defense with Alex Austen and Jack Gibbons, like, there has
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: to be some consequences for the fact that these guys
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: aren't performing and you have to try some different things.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: And I do think because they have Kyle Williams kind
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: of waiting in the in the wings and eftin Chishlm,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: this is a little bit different to me than running back,
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: because I do think they kind of have some options. Yeah,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: they here, all right. We talked a lot today. I'm
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: sorry that we didn't get to all the emails and
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. We do have some calls and if
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: you guys are still waiting, we'll take them now. In
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: the last ten minutes. I apologize. There was a lot
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: to unpack today and we didn't get to as many
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: of you guys as we wanted to. But Patty is
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: an agua. What's up, Patty?
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 7: What's up? Guys can hear me?
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, thanks for holding Patty, appreciate it, no problem.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 7: I did want to get into a comp with Drake,
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 7: but I'll skip that for next week. But I got
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 7: to hold on to it that Alex, You're kind of
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 7: spot on when it comes to just being patient with
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 7: quarterbacks and waiting to see what happens at the same
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 7: and half of their second season. But the guy I
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 7: want the question I wanted to ask you guys, was
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 7: I attended two practices this summer. I attended the first
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 7: Saturday practice and the joint practice against the against Commanders.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 7: And I used to think it was funny you guys
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 7: would always say, did we get fooled by Taekwon? You
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 7: know when he was on this team, And I'm guessing,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 7: you know, did we all kind of get fooled by Pop?
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 7: Because to me, like those two practices I went to,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 7: he looked like the best skill player on the team.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 7: And I'll take the answer out there, guys.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Patty, it's a really good question, and it's something
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: that I've thought about a little bit with Pop and
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: with Travon Henderson, Like these are two guys that are
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: speed guys that when the contact was toned down a
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: little bit compared to what it is in a live
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: game setting. They both had great summers, both pop In
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: and Henderson. And the fact that we've gotten into the
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: games and that hasn't translated to the regular season is
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: kind of putting me in a little bit of a
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: mental pretzel. I don't really especially with pot because it's
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: like not a rookie, right, it's a bizarre.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: Like there's just maybe we overrated the kind of fit
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: he's going to be in this offense. And your point,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: they're seeing a lot of zone. He's not a guy
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: that has a ton of success against zone. Yeah, maybe
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: didn't get the man coverage that they wanted, like pop
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: somewhere I could see going somewhere else having a ton
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: of success. Yeah, and you see obviously what Taekwon Thornton's doing.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: So I don't think we got fooled. I just think
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: maybe we didn't look at the full big picture. We
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: didn't see the picture as big as it maybe ultimately was.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: So good for Taekwon. Happy for my guy, yep, good
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: for him. Now that being said, it's still only nine
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: catches for one hundred and seventy one yards. He's hit
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: like three or four really big plays down the field.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: He's averaging nineteen yards.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: That's what thought he was going to be. Yeah, hever
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: supposed to be a volume guy.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: He's doing exactly. He is carving out a role for
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: himself in the league, and I'm happy for him. We
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: tried to do Taekwon multiple times and it just didn't
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: happen for him here. But some of the things that
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing for Taekwon is it's really very similar, you know,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: like he could carve out a role as like and
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: Nelson agalor Philip Dorsett type in the league and probably
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: have a pretty good career doing that. So good for him.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: Jude is in mass I assume what's up, Jude, Hey,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: how's it gone good?
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 3: I wanted to say that first, I definitely agree with
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: you Evan where I think that having Kyle on the
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 3: field more is just the best way to go. With
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 3: Kyle and Stefon Diggs in the slot and Booty, I
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: think that we need that juice, whether whether or not
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: it's Pop or him. So I definitely agree with that.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: But my question was, what are you guys thinking about
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 3: the production in the run game? The EPA for plays
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 3: and necessarily called that great and like our numbers kind
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: of like sitting around like the twenties. How are you
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: feeling about it?
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Jude, it's a good question. It's something that
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: has come up a little bit over the last couple
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: of days, is that they haven't traditionally been able to
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: run the ball very well. Like all of their explosive
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: runs really have come from Drake, and like he's I
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: think they're leading rusher right now if I'm not mistaken.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: So it's a good question they haven't been able to
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: run the ball traditionary very well. But I will say,
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: you know, class half full, a lot of the run
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: actions that they are doing are setting up a lot
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: of really good play action opportunities, and maybe it's worth
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: it to stick with the run game even if it's
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: not working very well. And so I'm thinking maybe that
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: if they keep on doing this with the play action passing,
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: that it will empty the box a little bit more
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: and teams won't be as focused on the run. I
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: think what they're getting right now from a run game
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: perspective is they're getting a lot of gap penetration and
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: stunting from the defensive lines that they're facing. So they're
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: getting a lot of post snap movement and they're stunting
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: and run stunting and penetrating gaps and things like that.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: And so you'll only really do that like if you're
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: overplaying the run, like if that's like a game plan
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: focused thing, because like, we can't let this team run
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: the ball on us. So I do think that there's
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: an element of On Tuesday, when teams are game planning
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: the Patriots offense, I think one of the first things,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: if not the first thing on the top of the list,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: is let's make them one dimensional and turn them into
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: a drop back pass team, kind of like what the
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: Raiders were able to do to them a little bit
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: in Week one. So I wonder how much of that
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: is too, But yeah, they got to run the ball
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: better traditionally without Drake being as much involved. Mark is
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: in Connecticut. What's up Mark?
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 8: Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Just a quick
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 8: couple of things. I was on the postgame show with
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 8: Paul and Mike, and I believe that those guys have
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 8: said something to the effect that Kevin fall Back early
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 8: in his career fumbled the ball quite quite a lot
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 8: and they were able to somehow work with somebody on
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 8: that and get that out of him. And I'm wondering
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 8: if that's but he might be able to, you know,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 8: Kevin Folk might be able to help Remandre out with that.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 8: And then the other couple of things is, yeah, we
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 8: need to get fon Chisholm, Danny Amidola two point zero
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 8: on the field.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: It's time.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 8: I'm the biggest advocate for Pop. I wear his jersey every.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 9: Time of the game.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 8: But you know, maybe it's just not good with Drake,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 8: you know, because of his size and everything. But I
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 8: think Chisholm just has a little more twitch, little more
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 8: juice in that. And then the last thing is, I
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 8: don't know why we're going to Pop on a fourth
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 8: and two. I want to see Digs on that, Like
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 8: that should be Diggs going fourth and two. Gotta have
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 8: a kind of moment there. So appreciate you guys.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for the call. Mark. What was the first
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: thing he said is for a lot of Kevin Falk?
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so Kevin is he at LSU still Kevin Falk?
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: I don't remember where he was.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was coaching or like helping, advising or whatever
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: for a while.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: But the one thing I was actually the New York
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: Giants running backs coach. Oh really in the league, dude,
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: he's there, Troy Brown's there, a bunch of those guys. Yeah,
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: so he's probably helping Romandre out.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the fair The one thing I wanted to
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: talk about with with the fall point though, I remember
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: Kevin Falk used to wear the elbow pads. Yeah, so
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: I he wore the elbow pads. I believe that was
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: part of fixing the fumbling issues. And I'm not saying
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: that's gonna solve it for Remandra necessarily, but like he
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: used to take the with the elbow pad and then
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: he would like wedge the ball the point of the
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: ball into his elbow pad, and that's like what allowed
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: him to like kind of hold and secure the ball
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: a little bit more. So I'm not saying that's the answer.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of people also talk about like
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: Tiki Barber fixed his fumbling issues by like holding it
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: up on his chest and tell yeah, which maybe like
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: that's an answer. I don't know. I don't know if
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: like where he carries the football is necessarily a solution,
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: but maybe maybe it is. Sewn is in Vancouver.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 9: What's up, Sean Shaanatova? This is you know, this is
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 9: the week of the year where we reflected in our sins,
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 9: and for the Patriots, those sins are the.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 7: To get to beat Alex.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 3: You're right, you can still.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 9: Win the game even if you do the crap that
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 9: gets you beat, just can't do it five times like
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 9: the last time the Patriots had five turnovers in the
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 9: game was two thousand and eight against Steelers and lost
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 9: thirty three to ten. That was a better Patriots team.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 9: They finished eleven to five. The previous season was the
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 9: only time a team went undefeated in a sixteen game
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 9: regular season, and that game wasn't even close. No, if
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 9: New England turned the ball over just four times, they
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 9: still win. They had five crap plays that they get
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 9: to beat and we're in the game with less than
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 9: a minute left. The Pats also didn't take advantage of
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 9: bad play. Alex Austin penalty took away Milton Williams bumble recovery,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 9: Blaine had an interception that gives them first and goal.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 9: The next play, Stevenson second bumble is recovering in the
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 9: end zone for a touchback. So you're not taking advantage
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 9: of what the Steelers have given you. And the Steelers
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 9: were a bad team on Sunday. They didn't win the game.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 9: New England lost it. If the Patriots turned the ball
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 9: over even once against you know one more time than.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 7: The Bills do, they lose to the Bills.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 9: Sunday's game shows that you can still when with the
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 9: craft that gets you beat if you play that much
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 9: better than your opponent, but you just can't keep doing it.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 9: And then I'll leave you with that.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Sean. Yeah, I think we're in lockstep there.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: All right, we have one minute to talk about the
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: Carolina Panthers. All Right, we're gonna Christian can talk on Unfiltered.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: What's your thirty second take on the Carolina Panthers.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, I really hope Christian's alce is back. That's
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: the big thing for me. I think it's it's Ted
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: McMillan and Will Campbell. Right, let's see, that was the
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: big conversation a draft season. I feel like Panthers are
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: kind of in a similar spot. And as to the Patriots,
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: like Bryce Young had that good close to the year
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: last year, you're trying to see, like is he ultimately
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: the guy? And then if you think he is, if
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: he continues to play, well, okay, well the roster is
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: still not complete. But who around him are we keeping
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: as part of this rebuild?
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: So Ted's looked really good on film.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: He's been good.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been good.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: J Coker's good too.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of it he's hurt. Coker ted a lot
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: of it's translated. He's you know, his sigh, his catch radious,
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: but also the yards after the catch and the fluidity.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: At six foot five, six foot four, he looks the part.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: He looks like it's translated.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: With that being said, he's the only thing they have
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: in the passing game. He is a one man show
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: right now in Carolina in the passing game. So if
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: you take him away, I don't really know what else
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: Bryce Young is going to in this game. Bryce Young,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: My comp for him right now is righty to u
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: because he keeps throwing the ball in the middle of
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: the field, and only the middle of the field. So
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: short throws middle of the field, take those things away
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: really quickly. On the Panthers defense, they kind of put
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: Pennix in a blender a little bit last week. He
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: wasn't seeing the field very well. They'd use a lot
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: of disguise coverage and post snap rotation and things like that.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 2: If Drake May can keep his wits about him in
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: this game, then there's gonna be a lot of opportunities
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: for him. But Pennix couldn't, you know, they really ever
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: ow their defensive coordinator really flustered him and confused him.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: So that's the key. You got to keep Drake May's
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: wits about him. But I think there's going to be
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: the opportunities for them to move the ball if he
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: can you know, stay, you know, avoid the blender, as
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: Rabel likes to say. So that's your Panthers minute. Sorry
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: we didn't get the more of a Panthers preview for you,
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: but we will surely be talking about the Carolina Panthers
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: in the game on Sunday on Patriots Unfiltered over the
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: next couple of days. So Unfiltered is four minutes away,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: so don't go anywhere. Alex and I will be back
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: next week to talk about the Panthers, to talk about
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: the Buffalo Bills on Sunday Night football Big One in
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: Orchard Park for the Patriots in week five. We'll see
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: you guys.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 10: Then, Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 10: If you really want to help us, make sure you
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 10: like us wherever you get your podcasts like Apple Podcasts
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 10: or Spotify.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: Also make sure you follow
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 10: Us on the New England Patriots YouTube channel to see
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 10: this show and everything else that we do here at
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 10: the Patriots, thanks a lot,