Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 53 – Rosie Viva on bipolar disorder, hormones and mental health

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53 – Rosie Viva on bipolar disorder, hormones and mental health · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

0:00
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Bipolar is far more common than many of us think, and it affects
0:16
around 1% of people. But it can take 9 years for
0:20
diagnosis. So today in my studio, I've had
0:23
Rosie Veva, who is an author. She's a model and she's a great
0:28
advocate for bipolar. She has it herself and her
0:31
journey has not been easy. We have a very open and candid
0:35
conversation about what it's like to have bipolar, how her
0:38
diagnosis was made, and what we can do to look out for it in
0:42
other people. So, Rosie, welcome to the
0:46
studio. Welcome.
0:47
Thank you. SO.
0:49
Much it's very nice being here. And you know, I was saying to
0:52
just before we started that I'm not just about menopause.
0:55
So sometimes people say, why is she talking to younger people?
0:58
And, you know, I'm really interested in the whole body and
1:03
every organ in our bodies because I'm a general physician.
1:07
But without a shadow of doubt, the brain is the most important
1:10
organ in our bodies and we sometimes have control over it,
1:14
but sometimes we don't. And I'm just really keen to hear
1:19
that. Obviously I know your story, but
1:21
lots of listeners won't know why you're here as a woman in your
1:26
20s talking about mental health. So do you mind talking a bit
1:30
about what's happened? Yes.
1:31
So I'm Rosie. I'm 29, so it's nice to still be
1:35
called in my 20s because I feel very sort of on the brink and
1:38
ready to prepare for another chapter.
1:40
But I speak very openly about living with bipolar disorder.
1:45
It's something which I've sort of grown to realize is more and
1:48
more important that I do as someone who's managed to get
1:51
their life back. So I was diagnosed age 22 and I
1:55
guess growing up I always knew something was different, but I
1:58
just didn't know what it was and I didn't have the vocabulary to
2:01
describe how I was feeling. And I guess I was also, you
2:05
know, hiding it and managed to mask it because my temperament
2:09
is very upbeat. I'm not someone who's sort of is
2:11
lying around with no energy all the time.
2:13
It was always this mix of high and low.
2:15
So after my episode, I would just really struggle to find
2:18
women in the media speaking about this.
2:20
I couldn't see anyone underage 30 who I could relate to.
2:24
And if I could, it was always on charity websites.
2:27
It was never just flicking through a magazine.
2:30
And so I think I just felt really alone and really
2:32
abnormal. So that's why I got into
2:34
speaking about it. And luckily I've sort of gained
2:37
a lot more confidence in the last seven years by the people
2:40
I've met and now understanding this is actually quite a
2:43
mainstream illness. I guess 1% of people have it and
2:48
one in 12 people are directly affected by having a loved one
2:51
who suffers with it or if they have it themselves.
2:53
So yes, it's something we should be speaking about a lot more.
2:56
Certainly, but a lot of people don't even know what bipolar
3:00
means. So, you know, a lot of people
3:02
think it's like a split personality or, I don't know,
3:05
just. I don't know.
3:07
Yeah, so just to explain what it.
3:09
Is, I've spoken about this for such a long time, but I do find
3:13
defining it still the hardest question to be asked because
3:16
even between NHS or a charity I work with, Bipolar UK, the
3:20
definition changes. And also people who have it like
3:23
to. So, you know, some people don't
3:25
even like it to be called a disorder because that implies
3:27
that something's broken. But in brief, bipolar disorder
3:31
is a mood disorder, which means that your mood is on a much
3:36
greater sort of breadth. So you go between A1, which is
3:40
very depressed and very delusional, right up to mania,
3:44
which is sort of a nine and a 10.
3:46
And at that point you can go into psychosis.
3:50
There's 2 main types, bipolar one and two.
3:52
I have type 1 and that tends to include psychosis, whereas type
3:57
2 goes up to hyper mania and mania.
4:00
But you don't lose full control in the same way.
4:03
And so for someone with type 1, you have to be on antipsychotics
4:06
in order to sort of exist in this worlds, whereas for type 2,
4:11
a lot of people sort of have more of a choice with
4:14
medication. So that's my understanding.
4:17
But again, I'm still always asking people with bipolar how
4:20
they like to describe it and things like that, 'cause it's so
4:22
important to keep learning even when you have it.
4:25
Yeah, absolutely. And I've spoken about this on my
4:27
podcast before about, you know, as a doctor, I don't want to
4:31
give someone a diagnose, a diagnostic label.
4:34
You know, you don't really necessarily, I don't think it's
4:37
very helpful to give people just a label without explaining what
4:41
it is or why it's happening. And you know, with a lot of the
4:45
DSM site, you know, the psychiatric diseases, there's
4:50
lots of criteria, almost tick box.
4:52
And it's not just which day of the week you're talking to that
4:55
person, it might be which minute of the hour of the day that
4:59
you're talking to them because our mood really changes
5:03
throughout the day. And so just having a snapshot
5:07
isn't usually that helpful, is it?
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And that could be really difficult.
5:11
It's really difficult and I think it's why the average
5:13
diagnosis takes nine years, nine years from the point of seeking
5:17
help. So that's not even someone who
5:20
is feeling that their moods are extreme, that's someone who is
5:23
actively going to a GP to talk about their mood.
5:26
And I think what I've learned and what I see in a lot of young
5:29
women is when you go to AGP and you suffer with depression, you
5:32
very rarely think to mention that you also have good days.
5:35
Because we're not programmed to look at people and see happiness
5:38
as something which is a warning sign.
5:40
When actually, if I had spoken about what I was writing in my
5:44
diary in these huge euphoric sort of epiphanies growing up, I
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think my diagnosis would have come about before reaching
5:50
crisis. Gosh, Ken, can you say what some
5:52
of those things, what sort of things you were writing about?
5:55
I mean, you can actually see in my Diaries, because I've written
5:58
since I was 12 years old and I write for sometimes half an hour
6:02
a day. There's a lot of sort of
6:03
thoughts and over activity. But even in my handwriting, I
6:07
write in capitals when I'm manic and I write in sort of
6:10
calligraphy style when I'm low. And even that, the shift in
6:14
energy, the sort of obsession with life and that absolute sort
6:18
of besotted outlook on everything, it just sounds very
6:23
grandiose. So yeah, my language changes.
6:27
And in the same way, when I'm low, there's just very little
6:30
perspective on what I have and hope.
6:35
And it's, you know, we're dealing with those emotions, but
6:38
we're not taught to look out and spot signs in ourselves with, I
6:41
guess, a lot of the time, too young to even.
6:45
Yeah, Judge. Yeah.
6:47
Well, it's it's also, if you don't know about a condition
6:50
yourself that you have, it's really hard to know, isn't it,
6:54
what's going on? Yes, and bipolar to me was the
6:58
English weather, and it was a teacher at school who threw
7:02
rulers at kids. That was the only time I'd had
7:04
the word bipolar growing up, so I wouldn't have even thought to
7:07
know it was something I could have, and definitely not as a
7:10
young woman either. No.
7:11
So how long did it take for your diagnosis?
7:14
So the first time I seeked help was when I was 20 years old.
7:20
So I'd been freelance for two years after school, and I think
7:24
my mom always knew that I was very sensitive.
7:27
That was the way we described my character.
7:29
But she hadn't seen the huge amount of sleep I needed in
7:34
certain patches of my life. And so when I was living at home
7:38
rather than abroad, I was modelling in Paris for a few
7:41
years after school. She said, like, this isn't
7:43
normal. You're going to a casting which
7:44
is half an hour and then you're asleep for five hours after.
7:47
So I went to see AGP at 20 to start sort of saying, OK,
7:51
something's not right. And my mom's picked up on it
7:53
before me. And that was when I was
7:55
diagnosed with an under active thyroid, which is very common
7:58
for women with bipolar. So I guess that was the first
8:01
time in the medical system depression got noted down
8:04
somewhere. But it wasn't until two years
8:07
later that I got my diagnosis. And in that time that was
8:11
anxiety depression, which started getting in the way of
8:14
work. It really sort of bubbled to
8:16
head around that time. So a lot of visits and a lot of
8:19
different doctors and a lot of different therapists.
8:22
But unfortunately till I actually went psychotic no one
8:25
thought oh this is bipolar. Oh, how old are you when you had
8:28
psychosis for the first time? 22, very young and I have to say
8:36
I'm very open minded and I love speaking to people about this
8:40
sort of whole experience. But you do see the world in a
8:43
different way, and I don't think I'll ever see the world in the
8:46
way I saw it before my episode because you're opened up to such
8:50
a religious viewpoint. You read people's energy, you
8:53
can see colours, your eyesight, everything.
8:55
It's absolutely incredible until it's not.
8:58
So you can remember it all very clearly.
9:00
I think because I've spoken publicly I have a better memory
9:03
than a lot of people because I've had to recount it so many
9:07
times. But being in hospital, my memory
9:11
is really bad. The first three months were a
9:14
complete sort of haze. And I think, yeah, I mean, it
9:18
sort of feels like when you're in a dream and you'll be
9:20
speaking to your mum and then suddenly they'll look like your
9:21
dad. That was happening in real life.
9:24
And so I think I've blocked out a lot of that sort of heavy
9:27
psychosis because it's it was just quite terrifying to be
9:30
hearing voices and things like that.
9:32
Absolutely. And you know you've written this
9:35
amazing book. Completely normal and totally
9:37
fine. Sorry, ironically.
9:40
Yeah, but you have put my life with bipolar disorder and you
9:46
know, you, you haven't, you haven't hidden much really.
9:49
I mean, it's very descriptive. But also what, what saddens me
9:53
really is that I did psychiatry 20-30 years ago, a very deprived
10:00
area of Manchester. But actually, when you describe
10:04
the psychiatric hospitals, they don't seem to have changed much.
10:07
No, I I mean because I was high. My memories of the psychiatric
10:12
ward are so sort of rose tinted because at that level, anything
10:17
is amazing. I thought the food was Michelin,
10:20
but yeah, it was quite shocking. Like there was small things as I
10:23
started to get a bit better, like they wouldn't change what
10:26
day of the week it was on the whiteboard.
10:28
And I know you're unwell, but towards the end I started
10:31
feeling this is, you know, I actually don't know what's going
10:34
on. I couldn't go outside.
10:35
I had to ask permission to have a shower and it is a very weird
10:39
world and I'm glad it's not a long term thing in my case.
10:43
So I see a lot of women who've been under psychiatrist for many
10:48
years and you know, they do become quite institutionalized.
10:52
But I, I've visited a few of my patients as well, and one of
10:57
them, I was really quite shocked, like how sparse
11:00
everything was and how, you know, I know obviously if
11:04
someone's having psychosis, you're not going to have things
11:06
around the room that they could throw.
11:08
But actually it just felt that a lot of their identity had just
11:13
been taken away from them with their mental illness.
11:16
And I don't know that that's a very useful way of trying to
11:19
build the person back up sometimes.
11:21
Yeah, it was. I mean, I, I don't remember
11:24
being diagnosed. I was so gone.
11:26
I was messaging my friend saying bipolar in capitals and trying
11:30
to find emojis for a polar bear. So I was totally not with it.
11:34
And I'm glad I didn't have my phone on me just because in the
11:38
weeks leading up to being sectioned, I was sharing very
11:40
manically online and to all my clients when I was modelling and
11:44
that was very religious and delusional.
11:46
So parts of having your things taken away good.
11:49
But then when it gets to the last stretch where you're
11:52
really, you're getting. Ready to go back out I.
11:54
Think that sort of process? You can't and speed it up in the
11:57
last four weeks where you're allowed out for lunch but then
12:00
in every night. It would be nice for it to feel
12:02
a little bit less clinical. But it did save my life, so I'm
12:07
very conscious. Of course.
12:08
Not to be too negative, but yeah, definitely character
12:12
building. And you know, the, and you talk
12:16
also about the medication that you've had.
12:18
And obviously medication is really important, especially if
12:21
someone's having a psychosis, you know, but there are side
12:24
effects of medication as well, aren't there?
12:27
And it's always what suits one person might not suit someone
12:30
else. And it's just, it's hard, isn't
12:32
it? It is I so in the last years or
12:36
since releasing my book, so maybe even the last six months,
12:38
I kept meeting women in London who have bipolar and it was all
12:43
different industries. So I started a WhatsApp of us
12:46
just to sort of exchange notes and send messages very sort of
12:50
specific to this. The wildest thing is that all of
12:53
us, and there's 12 now in the group, nobody has the same
12:56
medication routine. And I think for the younger
12:59
girls in the group who are still navigating sort of getting their
13:02
stability back and being able to work again, that was the most
13:05
frightening thing is that you can't sort of predict what's
13:09
going to work. And you have that feeling that
13:11
maybe nothing ever will. So getting the medication
13:14
routine right felt like the longest log.
13:16
And I think that's seven months is when you're you're most
13:19
fragile and sort of suicidal because no one can tell you with
13:22
confidence what's going to help even doctors, which was a scary
13:26
thing to look at an adult and they just don't know.
13:29
No. And it is hard because you know,
13:31
the way people metabolise the drug, drugs are different, the
13:34
way they respond is different and the way different drugs can
13:37
interact as well can be really difficult.
13:40
But but you found a drug that's helped you.
13:44
Yes I have. So I take quetiapine and I
13:48
always say it hasn't cured depression and I definitely
13:51
still get highs, but what it's done is made me less delusional
13:55
and I think in my case that was always where things got a bit
13:58
dangerous. So I was about six months after
14:01
hospital in such a suicidal low and I just remember the drug
14:05
started working about two weeks after I started taking it.
14:08
I asked my dad a question which I didn't over consider and I
14:12
just had this amazing moment of thinking, Oh my gosh, it's just
14:15
making room in my mind for not just this depressive thought.
14:19
So it allows me to detach from it and I guess off medication it
14:22
was just too all consuming. So I don't really know what it
14:26
does, but it helps me sleep and mainly that's the sort of thing
14:29
which keeps me most stable. Yeah.
14:32
Did you have a lot of time when you weren't sleeping?
14:35
I mean, up until 22, I just thought it was normal.
14:38
But I remember in my first relationship, I was always awake
14:40
at 3:30, ready to run, and I was always last out on a night out.
14:45
And that was just Rosie. That was just someone with a lot
14:48
of energy. And I just thought that was
14:51
normal and that everyone else was lazy.
14:53
And then I guess since I always think there's two types of
14:56
insomnia when you have bipolar, there's the one everyone else
14:59
can relate to where you're frustrated.
15:01
It's 4:00 in the morning that you can't sleep and you're
15:03
feeling very upset and worried that the next day you'll crash.
15:07
And then there's the second type of insomnia, which comes in a
15:09
high where I know I don't need sleep and sometimes I just will
15:13
stay awake till the morning. And I'm I'm not worried about
15:16
it, but I know my body actually isn't ready to shut down.
15:20
It's a really weird feeling. And you can tell the difference
15:23
between those two. 100% one's really enjoyable and all my
15:26
thoughts are just can't wait for the next day to begin.
15:29
And the other one is the one my friends can relate to, which is
15:32
the most horrible thing to experience when you're tossing
15:35
and turning and frustrated and worried about it, and one they
15:40
just are never happening nearby to each other.
15:43
I have them both in different different moods.
15:45
And how much more common is bipolar in women compared to
15:49
men? I actually believe it's an even
15:52
split. I wrote that in my book and I
15:54
think there was a lot of people at Bipolar UK who helped me sort
15:58
of make sure that all the facts are up to date.
16:00
So yeah, I do believe it's quite an even split with bipolar.
16:04
Does it take women longer to be diagnosed?
16:08
I wouldn't know that, I just know because most people would.
16:13
Type 1, your diagnosis comes early 20s because of that
16:17
psychotic tendency and so that can't really be missed.
16:21
Whereas I believe a lot of women who have type 2, their diagnosis
16:25
comes later and menopause is a massive trigger.
16:29
Which I'm glad I'm aware of because actually for suicide and
16:32
women with bipolar, menopause is more of a threat than early 20s
16:36
around diagnosis. Starting in April this year, I'm
16:41
going back on tour across the UK with a brand new show, Breaking
16:45
the Cycle, The Power of Hormones.
16:49
I'll be visiting 40 venues and my aim is to challenge what
16:53
we've been told about hormones, to unpick the science that's
16:56
often overlooked, and to explore why there's still so much
17:00
confusion and misinformation, particularly around hormone
17:04
health. Our hormones influence
17:07
everything. Our mood, our sleep, our
17:10
metabolism and our future house. Every single cell in our bodies
17:15
is impacted by hormones, yet so many people are still left
17:19
without clear answers. So in this show I'll be sharing
17:23
research, some history, the real stories and some very
17:27
uncomfortable truths. There will be moments that
17:29
surprise and maybe shock you, and plenty of opportunities to
17:33
reflect and ask me questions. So if you want to learn, feel
17:37
empowered and be part of a movement that's changing how we
17:40
think about hormones, I'd love to see you there.
17:44
You can buy tickets through the link in the show notes.
17:48
When I've been looking up about bipolar, not just in UK but
17:51
globally, just out of interest, and I put in menopause and
17:55
hardly anything comes up about how it does say it can worsen.
17:58
But no one talks about hormones. And I find it quite surprising
18:03
because our hormones are made in our brain.
18:06
Our hormones, progesterone, estradiol, testosterone, have
18:09
really important roles in our brain and they also change the
18:12
level of other neurotransmitters.
18:14
So serotonin and glutamate and noradrenaline and dopamine, for
18:19
example. And it's no surprise that when
18:22
you have a drop in the progesterone, estradiol,
18:25
testosterone, it can trigger all sorts of mental health issues,
18:28
including bipolar. And we've known for decades that
18:31
there's this association. And we do know that when women
18:34
have their hormones back, it makes a huge difference in a
18:37
positive way to their mental health.
18:40
Yet there's very few psychiatrists that prescribe
18:43
hormones. And the other thing, I don't
18:46
know if you know this, but it's important really to know that
18:48
antipsychotics can suppress the your own hormone production.
18:54
So I was trying to find out whether there are any guidelines
18:57
because we know that when people are on antipsychotics, people
19:01
often have their blood tests done.
19:03
They have their thyroid done, they have their cholesterol
19:06
done, they have a hormone called prolactin level done.
19:09
But no one does hormone blood tests.
19:11
I got confirmation back from a very senior psychiatrist the
19:15
other day just in case I was missing something.
19:17
And she said, Oh, no, we don't. But we've known for decades that
19:20
these hormones can block or the hormones can be blocked by
19:24
antipsychotics. So a lot of people will have an
19:27
earlier menopause when they're on those drugs.
19:30
I don't know if that's on your radar at all.
19:31
No. I mean, I think across any
19:34
illness you just look, there's a website I've got various sort of
19:37
hyperfixated on where you can type in what investigations are
19:41
currently going on in the world around bipolar.
19:43
So I'm constantly looking about subjects I'm passionate to
19:47
understand more of. And it's never women focused.
19:51
And that's always what's so sad, especially because the reason I
19:55
find it so important to speak about this as a woman is that,
19:58
you know, with hormones, we're already worried about being
20:00
crazy and impulsive. So then to say, oh, I also have
20:03
a mood disorder where I'm. Flipping and, you know, it's
20:06
just like, oh, do I have to admit both, but obviously I do.
20:10
And I'm getting really confident that it's not something to be
20:13
embarrassed by. But yeah, I think women and
20:16
research is something which is just so important and it's
20:19
amazing for women like you to be raising.
20:21
Well, we've been excluded for many years from research and it
20:26
was only the year I qualified in 94 that women were allowed
20:30
really and more routine to be in studies.
20:33
So all the work I did as a undergraduate was based on men
20:37
because they didn't use women in.
20:39
I mean, it's just madness, isn't it really to think about it.
20:42
And then we know that it's too complicated really.
20:45
And when women have hormones, but it's not because I lost
20:49
women. And I don't know if any women in
20:50
your group find that they their symptoms, their mental health
20:54
symptoms worsen before their periods when their hormones
20:57
drop. Yes, I mean that is me.
21:01
I mean, I for ages I was considering getting a PMDD
21:04
diagnosis and then I just became comfortable with saying my
21:08
bipolar cycles with my hormones and the two weeks before my
21:12
period. It's just so obviously
21:14
triggering the whole thing. And I guess in some ways it's
21:18
the hormones. In some ways it's taking you
21:20
back to the day-to-day bipolar fears of how can I do this for
21:23
the rest of my life? And I don't know what to do
21:24
about it. But it's nice to know that
21:27
there's other things to try outside of bipolar medications.
21:30
But no one's really spoken to you about trying to have your
21:33
hormones balanced in these two weeks.
21:35
No, I mean the NHS is brilliant in getting you out the system
21:39
and the three years support after was so helpful.
21:43
But I've been speaking to Westminster Council since I've
21:47
been discharged because at no point was I told about diet and
21:50
exercise. And just because I've been on
21:53
social media and I work as a model, I've always been
21:56
interested in Wellness. But that was something I've come
21:59
to myself and most people have never even considered that, you
22:03
know, sugar and all these things which can spike your mood is
22:06
something we need to take more seriously if we have bipolar.
22:09
So yeah, a long way to go. It's very important because
22:14
sometimes it's this downward spiral as well.
22:17
And you know, people who are listening won't all have
22:20
bipolar, but many of us have had times where we just feel quite
22:22
low in our mood. And then you don't want to
22:24
exercise, you don't want to eat properly.
22:26
But you know, if you don't exercise, you don't eat
22:28
properly. It makes you feel worse.
22:30
But when you're doing this, it can be really difficult.
22:34
And then you throw low hormones into the mix.
22:37
It can make a difference. And there are some women who
22:39
it's, it's not just the level of hormones.
22:41
So when people are menopausal, the hormones are low and they
22:44
stay low forever. But when we're perimenopausal or
22:47
have PMS or PMDD, it's the change in hormones that can
22:51
shift change in mental health. So a lot of people find,
22:55
especially their progesterone goes down very quickly before
22:59
our periods and that change in the brain can trigger mental
23:03
health symptoms. And we've known this for many
23:06
years that actually having the natural hormones back, so not
23:09
the same as contraception can make a huge difference to mental
23:13
health. But often in medicine, people
23:16
don't join the dots. You know, it's somehow people
23:20
think hormones are for periods and mental health symptoms are
23:23
just the brain and they don't realize there's a connection
23:25
between everything. Yeah, I mean, it's something I'm
23:29
so eager to learn more about because I think what I've
23:32
learned is I'm so sensitive to everything.
23:35
Or if your brain is like this, I, you know, I also have stomach
23:39
issues. And for a few years that was a
23:41
real worry. But then when I sorted out my
23:43
anxiety, that went away and exercise.
23:46
I feel like I've got into long distance running because I've
23:50
noticed that these things affect me more, which is a positive,
23:53
but I'm sensitive in every way. I even breathe really easily.
23:57
So I'm like, Oh yeah, I'll try anything because it's at least
24:01
I'll see the effect, whether it's good or bad.
24:03
Yeah, and this is the thing. Sometimes in medicine, we don't
24:06
always have the answer, but we'll try something and see if
24:08
it helps. And what frustrates me often is
24:12
no one's thought about hormones, and hormones are part of the
24:14
puzzle. But often when people take
24:16
hormones, they just feel better. They might have more stamina
24:19
because we know our hormones work in our in our muscles and
24:22
our bones. So it might find that exercising
24:25
is just easier. They might just feel more
24:26
motivated. So even if they're not helping a
24:29
specific mental health disorder, they might be helping everything
24:33
else around it, which all of these things feed together,
24:36
don't they? And.
24:37
Like you said, if it's making exercise easier, that then
24:40
affects your mental health. So yeah, helping my energy
24:44
levels is one of the most important things.
24:47
I really, I try and have similar sort of sleep routines and my
24:51
diet is very high protein. And I think a 360 approach to
24:55
bipolar is why a manager. It's definitely not just the
24:58
medication. That's probably about 30%, I
25:01
would say, of getting better. Which is really important.
25:04
And I think more and more as patients, we should be advocates
25:08
for ourselves and for others as well.
25:10
I think so often, and it was the way I was taught as a medic is
25:14
that you medicalize everything and you treat everything with a,
25:17
with a magic drug and everything will improve.
25:19
And that's not right because everyone, as you say, responds
25:23
differently to different drugs, but also our metabolism is
25:27
different. The way we live is different and
25:29
that's fine because we're we're all different.
25:30
But we have to be looking at, like you say, everything as
25:33
well, don't we? And I always say this, I'm such
25:36
a believer that also surrounding yourself with the right people
25:39
is so important when you have bipolar.
25:41
Because a huge cause for a mood swing for me is if someone's off
25:45
or I don't feel comfortable and I can't be myself.
25:48
And I started really thinking, OK, how did I feel coming away
25:51
from that person? I need to be more careful about
25:53
who I'm around. If I'm choosing to not drink, I
25:56
need to make sure that people aren't cold with me and think
25:59
that's uncool because I just, I can't always drink.
26:01
I can't always be fun. So the last few years has been
26:04
learning how important that is. It's yeah, I've been a game
26:07
changer. It's important that I was
26:09
talking to my daughter this morning with one of her friends,
26:11
and they were saying about some guy who'd been really annoying
26:14
for some reason or other. And then the other, the friend
26:17
of my daughter, said, well, yeah, he, he's just full of
26:20
insecurities. And then my daughter said,
26:22
really, I hadn't thought like that, but I'm always really
26:25
insecure when I'm with him. And I said, that's because he's
26:27
insecure. You're picking up on his
26:29
insecurities. It's like when you're with
26:31
someone happy, you always feel happier.
26:33
If you're with someone who's low, you always feel low.
26:35
That's just human nature. And when you have bipolar or
26:39
other conditions, some people are more in tune with other
26:42
people's emotions. And it's important to let you
26:45
say acknowledge, because if you are with different people at
26:49
different times, it could really affect your mental health
26:51
contempt. Yeah, and it, like you said, I'm
26:54
so conscious of how people make me feel, but also I guess the
26:58
days after my episode, I was so dependent on my mum and my mum
27:01
only and that was making me feel like a burden.
27:04
And so I guess the last seven years has been spreading that
27:07
weight across friends and learning that I can lean on my
27:10
sisters as well. And now if one person is
27:13
unavailable, I've got such a support network.
27:16
And that was something, yeah, I didn't know the importance of
27:20
until now. Yeah.
27:23
Started therapy this year, which was very late at the age of 29.
27:26
But it's just making sure there's multiple ways to prop
27:29
yourself up rather than one person or one friend, which has
27:34
been good. It's.
27:34
Really important. So just your book, it's been
27:37
selling well. What's been the response from
27:40
it? I think the wildest response is
27:44
that it's exactly what I hoped it would be, which is a lot of
27:46
young women messaging me. And I guess people with bipolar
27:50
also, they don't see themselves in the media.
27:52
And so I get a lot of very long messages about whether they're
27:56
still in hospital or whether someone's son is really unwell.
27:59
And weirdly that doesn't affect my mood.
28:02
There's something really nice about social media that I'm
28:04
always detached in a nice way, and I know that it can also be
28:08
so detrimental to your health. But when you're speaking
28:11
publicly about bipolar, it gives me a distance.
28:13
There's no rush to reply. If something's really long and
28:17
sort of heavy, I can take time to consider it.
28:19
So it's been a really brilliant way to connect.
28:23
And I guess, yeah, the the main thing is that people said it
28:25
made them laugh as well, which I was happy about because I didn't
28:28
want it to be a heavy book because there's too many heavy
28:31
books about this subject. So a lot of people have messaged
28:34
who don't have bipolar but found it funny and relatable, probably
28:37
because of my awful dating stories.
28:39
But I'm glad that it gave some joy, to be honest.
28:43
Well, you do write it in a very light way and I think because
28:46
you're so much better, I, I knew that there would be a happier
28:50
ending somehow. And I think that makes it a lot
28:53
easier. But you know, it's very
28:55
relatable because, you know, just talking when you talk about
28:58
family and, and different things, people can just relate.
29:03
And hopefully it will help them think more about recognising
29:07
mental illness in other people as well.
29:10
I think so. I think it's just even having
29:13
been aware of bipolar, it could have saved me two years of work
29:18
and a lot longer to rebuild my confidence if I had even had a
29:21
thought, oh, could it be bipolar?
29:23
And I'm working with Bipolar UK at the moment on a campaign
29:27
around this. My acting debut is a awareness
29:32
video. Because I think even if it was
29:33
in your vocab or one conversation at school or in
29:36
sick form or a teacher mentioning it, I would have been
29:39
curious to think about it. But it was just the lack of
29:42
conversation and the shame around it which meant right
29:45
until sort of breaking point, I didn't even consider it was
29:47
something I could have. Yeah, so that is the thing.
29:50
It can happen to anybody, anyone.
29:53
And it's the same as any mental illness of course, or any
29:56
condition can help, can affect anybody.
29:58
But the sooner it's recognised, the sooner people can hopefully
30:02
be diagnosed and get the right treatment.
30:04
So. So there's a happy ending.
30:05
So there's a. Happy ending.
30:07
Grateful for you coming on. I always ask at the end for
30:09
three take home tips. So I'm going to just ask you
30:13
very easily three things that people should think about if
30:18
they think, have I or has my friend got bipolar?
30:21
What are the three sort of flags that they should be thinking
30:23
about? Three flags, I think 1.
30:29
Oh, that's a really hard question because I've had
30:32
friends who I think have bipolar and they've taken it really the
30:34
wrong way and totally rejected the idea.
30:37
So I'm not an expert on this, but I think one thing is to
30:41
maybe find an article online which is in the context of a
30:44
more casual conversation. So I wrote for Stylist when my
30:47
book came out. And then the reason I was so
30:49
excited to do that is that's an article you can send on WhatsApp
30:52
to someone or, you know, over text.
30:55
And if I received that before my diagnosis, it would have been
30:58
less daunting and someone just saying, hey, do you maybe have
31:02
bipolar? Here's an NHS website.
31:05
I would have really rejected that.
31:07
So that's one thing I would recommending.
31:10
Another I would also say is just the worst that can happen with
31:14
approaching someone about any mental illness is that at first
31:17
they'll be quite defensive. But it's just like I said, if
31:21
that then makes them aware of the word, if they then go away
31:24
and look it up and find people online speaking about it.
31:27
There's now people on TikTok like it's really getting better
31:30
in terms of it being a young audience.
31:32
It's just putting the word on their radar and then most people
31:36
are curious. We all have ChatGPT now, we all
31:38
have Google, so that's a bonus. And then the third one I think,
31:42
is just to educate yourself and be less fearful that it's a big
31:47
deal because for many, especially with Type 2, it's
31:51
something which could go on for 10 years.
31:53
But the medication is really brilliant and it's not a death
31:56
sentence and people live really great lives with this illness.
31:59
So I think it's, yeah, going reading articles, reading my
32:02
book, reading a little bit about it and just not finding it a
32:06
scary topic even just to discuss just casually, yeah.
32:11
Absolutely. And keeping positive really
32:13
important. So thank you so much.
32:14
It's been great. No worries, thank you so much
32:16
for having me. I've got something really
32:22
exciting to share with you. Every Thursday I'm going to be
32:24
releasing an extra episode for those of you that sign up.
32:28
It's an opportunity that I can have more guests share more
32:32
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32:36
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32:38
money is going to be used to help with research, much needed
32:42
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32:45
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32:48
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