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Identity, Advocacy, and the Art of Repair · Divas That Care Network

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's Divas that Care Radio.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Stories, strategies, and ideas to inspire positive change.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Divas That Care, a network of women committed to making our world a better place for everyone.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is a global movement for women, by women engaged in a collaborative effort to create a better world for future generations.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: To find out more about the movement, visit divas that care.com after the show.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, though, stay tuned for another jolt of inspiration.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, welcome to the Divas That Care.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Candace Gish.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: This April we are turning the spotlight inward with a special mini-series, unapologetically unique.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: We talk a lot about being changemakers here, but the most important change starts with standing firmly in your identity.
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  SPEAKER_02: In this year, we're ditching the comparison game and learning how to lead with unapologetic confidence.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you're ready to embrace your individuality and own your story, you are exactly where you need to be.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get started.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest, I'm very excited to be introducing you to Candace Klein.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Candace, welcome to the Diva Zat Care.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: What a great name, Candace.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thanks so much for coming.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I'm so excited to have you today.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Would you mind Candace introducing yourself to our listeners today?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd love that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for having me on.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my name's Candace Klein.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am a uh I'm an attorney, I'm an entrepreneur, um, I am a mom and a wife, and I am a bisexual, polyamorous, queer woman.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I am unapologetically unique in that sense.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as a result of all of those things, I'm also a two-time author.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what this podcast is really all about this month is being yourself and being confident with who you are and sharing that with the world.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks, Seth.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad that you create a that you create a a venue for this conversation and to normalize things that may be non-traditional, um, which is which is a really important part of my my personal mission.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you were mentioning that you are a lawyer and um you're an author and you've you've done a lot of things.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about your journey.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's share your story with our listeners.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um just I guess going back on my my grown-up, my adult journey, I uh I'm an attorney by trade and training.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've had several startup companies.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an entrepreneur.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've had um an exit.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I sold a business, I've led a company through an IPO.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've written a piece of federal legislation um that made crowdfunding legal back in the day in 2010.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've also had some massive failures professionally.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've been sued once.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've lost a business, and that was wildly unsuccessful.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then personally, um, you know, I'm married.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've been married for 11 years.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have a wonderful seven-year-old son, um, and I am polyamorous.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and most recently, um I ran a leadership academy and um I had a student who passed uh due to domestic violence and was in a position to fight for their children.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and and so uh my family uh fought for these children um um that were in a traumatic situation, and we lost against the state because we were polyamorous.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so since that moment, I have taken it upon myself to make it my personal mission to normalize a conversation around non-traditional families to show that non-traditional families can be just as happy and healthy as traditional ones, if not more.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna state that that's crazy.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe that somebody would do something like that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think family is family, no matter what it looks like, it somebody shouldn't determine what it should be.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I'm I'm really interested in that because that's not something that a lot of people probably talk about.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's um yeah, I definitely want to dive in more into that conversation.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about what you have done since then, because that is that is now you you've mentioned that's changed your projectory, um, that's changed how things are now and how you're wanting to really be that person driving that change.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love that you had said that you had uh you'd done a c uh crowdfunding and you had changed a legislation on that.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's extraordinary.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it sounds like that's what you are.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're a trailblazer, you're somebody that wants to be that person that's gonna get it started because obviously this is not something that is new, but it is something that a lot of people don't talk about and you're wanting to change that conversation.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so I've always been um a pioneer of sorts.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, as an entrepreneur, I was, you know, I was practicing law and the bank stopped lending in 2008, and most of my friends were entrepreneurs.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, if the banks won't lend, I'll just be the bank, you know?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, and then when I realized that crowdfunding wasn't legal um uh in the United States for securities, you couldn't raise money for like equity or or as a loan um without triggering, you know, something illegal.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, let's go change the law.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and so, you know, I when I saw that there was a void for leadership, I just started a leadership academy.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So this is very much in line with the way that I've lived my adult life.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: But after um, after the judge ruled against my family um in this custody battle two years ago, there's two different paths any person can take when they get that kind of feedback, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's one path which is like, let me just go back down the safe path.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let me go back down the path that the judge tells me I should go down or that anyone else tells me I should go down, or let me go be an advocate to change the system.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I made a decision at the in that moment that I was going to be an advocate to change the system.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: The way that I'm doing that is I've written a book, uh, it's actually a trilogy called Polyagony, The Art of Repair and Open Relating.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the purpose of this book is to normalize a conversation around non-traditional families, particularly around polyamory, um, by looking at the things that are hard to look at, you know, the mistakes people make and giving tools for how to how to recover from those.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also uh teaching a number of workshops and retreats on this topic, and I'm actually doing a TED talk in the fall on uh this this normalization of non-traditional family structures.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Extraordinary, Candace.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Way to go.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the it's it's it's it's bigger than me.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you know this because you lead this podcast.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is my purpose.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it it's it's not it's not even my call to make, right?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm just taking the path that I believe is is meant for me.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I I really respect that, you know.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned, families come in all shapes and sizes, and this was used to be a normal thing.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's changed over the years, you know, and in some countries it's still normalized.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it why is it that it seems like in North America or or whatever, why are people having such a hard time with it?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really interesting.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, so there have been a number of books written on this topic over the years.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: The the most popular was written by Esther Perel and called Sex at Dawn, and essentially like written about how the bonobos, the you know, the the um primates from which we've all evolved are polyamorous, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, so nature would lend itself towards polyamory.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's only in the last couple of hundred years that um that monogamy has taken the forefront and it started off as a um property rights issue, right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like as a way of of owning and uh negotiating property.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then the Western world continued to adopt it and it started to be adopted in religious sectors as well.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it wasn't it wasn't the the mainstream until the last couple hundred years.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so, so, but but you know, it it it was a way of of clearly owning property.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point, women were property.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh so there there's there's just a lot of history here that doesn't actually lend itself towards um towards monogamy.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what is your book about?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about that.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: You said it's a trilogy.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh have you has are any of them out right now?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So my first uh the first uh edition in the trilogy publishes in April.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just a couple of weeks away now um from publication.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, and so that is called The Foundation.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what's great about this trilogy is I've broken it into uh three sections because much of the book can actually be written read by monogamous couples as well.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the foundation is all around something's not working.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Something's not working in my marriage, in my family, in my sex life, and help, you know, I need to fix it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so I offer a number of different perspectives.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I interviewed a hundred different families in writing this book um to learn their stories of mistakes they've made, um, issues they've run up against, and how they resolved them.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I I coupled that with research on um nonviolent communication, conscious uncoupling, and and other tools to kind of give a toolbox, right?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the foundation, the the first book coming out, is really focused on what are communication tools and techniques that any couple can use as they're navigating um discomfort or mistakes.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's really important because relationships are challenging and a lot of people don't know how to work through them.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: So divorce rates are extremely high.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: The communication's not there anymore, and people don't know what to do.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you're kind of giving the foundation, like you were saying, that this could help anybody.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: It it's interesting, you know.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I my I I wrote a book previously um called Typhoon Honey, The Only Way Out Is Through.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was an emotional intelligence book.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a co-author, Chris Correll, who's an industrial and organizational psychologist, and he's monogamous.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had him read my book first, and he actually wrote one of the testimonials for my book and said, wait a minute, if I really think about it, I'm polyamorous too.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because while I'm only in love with one woman, my wife, as soon as we had our first child, my love expanded.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as we had our second child, my love expanded again.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And each time our family has expanded, I have found a new way to expand my love.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's abundance, it's an abundance mindset, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so he said, I am polyamorous.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love my wife and three kids equally abundantly.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so my hope is that we start to normalize that love is abundant, period.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you choose to be romantically engaged with one person or not, the concept that love is abundant is one that can be universal.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love how you just explained that because a person wouldn't think of it that way.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, you know, it's it's so funny.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like even as you know, I had my child, um, I remember conversations years ago where my husband and I said, you know, we're treating this like there's only a hundred units of love, you know, and that, and that if I give 50 units of love to our child, then there's only 50 units left.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just not the way love works.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, love, love is uh, you know, time is finite, love is not.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and and and by living in this way, by me being polyamorous, I've learned this firsthand over the last 15 years.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: But any parent can identify, I believe, with that, with that idea.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would totally agree with you.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize how much love I had in my soul until I had my children, and I have four daughters.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it just seems like I love so much and I want to keep on giving it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So these next two books, have you already wrote them or are they you're in the process of writing?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: They've been written, they're just coming out later.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um they'll be coming out in June and September prior to my TED talk.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the the second is called the expansion, and the expansion is really focused on polyamory, right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Being in a romantic relationship with what more than what more than one human.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um what like what are the what are the mechanics?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like how how do you navigate having a primary partner in a secondary?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do you navigate um raising children?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do you navigate um being in the same space with one another?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: How do you navigate honesty?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: How do you navigate having conversation and boundaries and negotiating those boundaries?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very much a um more of a how-to.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's nice about each of these books though is they're also focused in, they're they're all based in story.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I mentioned, I interviewed a hundred lives, a hundred people.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have a hundred different stories of, you know, Jane and Jack, or so, you know, where where we talk about all these mistakes that were made, and then and then we talk about what we can do about it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a pretty easy read.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the second book is really focused on the mechanics of dating or loving more than one adult.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the third book is focused on um, it's focused on the um the the the closing of relationships.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so so it's it's really on on it's called the reckoning.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's like when things have gone too far, when um, you know, when we've broken the relationship, when the relationship needs to end, or um when the dynamics um in a relationship have to change and how to navigate that consciously.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think these are gonna be great.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, Candace, a a lot of listeners are probably gonna be thinking, what was the purpose of this?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, let's really dive into that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: You wrote the three books, but what are you wanting to get from it?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: What are you wanting the public to take away from it all?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wanting to make it okay to love.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like just most simply.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm Candace and I love.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's the simplest statement I can make.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um I experienced firsthand what it's what it feels like to have a system, the judicial system, decide that I'm not worthy to raise children because I love.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's got to change.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and right now I just feel like we're in a world where there is so much divisiveness, there is so much hatred and um and judgment and people turning their backs on one another.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and what I'm trying to do is the opposite.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to say, I want us to be exploring love in every possible sense of the term.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not just romantic love, but kinship love and you know, like all forms of love.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And like I think it's needed more now than ever before.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm going to agree with you in a lot of ways because the community aspect also in the world has dissipated.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we no longer have that um connection.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I know growing up in the 80s and 90s, you know, we were always outside, we were always at our friend's house, we were always doing something.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: You would walk around, there would be people everywhere.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you would get you would get to know people on a very intimate basis because there was that connection.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And over the years that's really gone away.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't have that sense of community anymore.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I in the early two or 2020s, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: We really lost that connection when we had to be segregated from one another.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that we have to relearn how to be together again.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really neat how you have got a different way to, you know, almost get that conversation going, because in a lot of ways you are sharing that community again, you know, like we yes, it has to do with other topics, but it's still loving one another, loving people for who they are, and bringing us back together again.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and you you mentioned something too, Candice, that I think is important that you're a mom.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that there are a lot of listeners who are parents, and um and and I I'm I'm sure many of you who are listening have probably thought about this, but the moment that my son was born, my entire world changed.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I just became like singly, single-mindedly focused on creating a world where he will be embraced for whoever he is meant to be, for whoever he chooses to love, for however he identifies as he ages, for whatever communities he joins, for whatever he does as a living.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like my job as a parent is to ensure that I'm creating as much of a community and a world around him that will lift him up and hold him high.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that's that's ultimately the goal here.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, Candace, how can our listeners um connect with you?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: How can they get a copy of your book when it comes out?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um you can go to polyagony.com.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you can also learn more about, like I mentioned, the TED Talk and the workshops and other things at CandisKlein.com.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can also get the book there.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and thank you so much for being unapologetically unique because that's what you are and that's what you're doing, and you've got confidence and you're embracing your idea individuality.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you so much for sharing this story with our listeners today.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for giving a platform for this conversation.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's been so much fun.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: One last thing I do want to ask you, Candace, is there any tips or tools for our listeners or anything um that you'd love to just to share with us today?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I guess just the most simple tool is this.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're if you're listening to this, that to this particular episode, you might be unhappy and that's okay.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you may be unhappy in your marriage, in your family structure, in your sex life.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's completely okay.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And first it just is admitting that.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's the case, the one thing I would say is focus on your family first.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, so really, like, what is it that your family needs to be successful before you ever think about expanding into something else?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what you'll read a lot in my book is like, how do we focus on on being a parent?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do I focus in on strengthening my marriage before, you know, how how to to expand into other relationships?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess that would be my simplest trick uh or tip, which is if you're unhappy, nothing's going to change by becoming polyamorous if you don't focus on your family first.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for that beautiful tip.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Candace.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: This was great.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And Candace, I hope that you come back on the DivaZite Care.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot of topics throughout the year that we're going to be doing, and we would love to have you back on.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I would be honored.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for that invitation.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I will get you um my headshot right after this.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for your patience and getting this scheduled and having me on.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Not a problem.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: And to all of our amazing listeners, I do want to do a big shout out.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, make sure that you check out this podcast, send it to your friends and family.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're all about collaboration and connection and uh supporting one another.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure that you like, share, and comment on that.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it'll make the, you know, as I said, the world a better place too.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much, Candace.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, all of our listeners, and make sure you remember to do something kind today.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, everyone.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: This show was brought to you by Divas That Care.
• 19:41
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