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Markets, Fixed Income, And Crypto Investments · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All right, Danielle di
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Martino Booth, one of our absolute faves here on Bloomberg Markets,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: joins us. She's the CEO and Chief Strategies at Quill Intelligence.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: She drives on social gotta follow on, Danielle, you drive it.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: You have a giant pickup, don't you. UM. I have
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: a large SUV, but I also have four large children.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: There you go. You need that space, Danielle. She's a
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: chief strategis Quill Intelligence and former advisor at the Federal
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Reserve Bank at Dallas. UM. Danielle, A lot of our
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: listeners probably haven't put money to work, invested in, been
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: in the market, taken market risk in a rising interest
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: rate environment. How are you thinking about this environment? Right here?
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the Fed raising rates, and I keep
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: hearing people raise their expectations for the number of rate
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: hikes we're going to see this year. How do you
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: kind of frame out two and twenty three. Well, I mean,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you know, look, I applaud the idea that that the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: FED is going to have that kind of flexibility because
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: it implies that there's there's significant runways for this economic
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: recovery to continue. And I just you know, I'm seeing
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: so many red flags raised, whether it was retail control,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: whether it was Empire literally collapsing yesterday, and Empire headline
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: tends to follow what follows, which is the Business Leader survey.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: In New York is a very service intensive state. Um,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: so we're seeing some some markers out there. Uh in Michigan,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: for example, I'm gonna throw a one quick example out
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: in Michigan, you've seen General Motors and Ford fire back
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: up their production line so they're they're unemploy Claims are
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the healthiest in the nation if you take Michigan out
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: of the top ten most manufacturing intensive state. We've seen
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: initial jobless claims weekend for five weeks running now, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: that flashed me, you know, as along with the Empire,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: that we're heading into an industrial recession and pretty quickly.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So my concern is that the global economy and the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: US economy are slowing fairly quickly because we've been in
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: this compressed economic cycle. That's interesting. We don't see it
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: coming through in financial conditions yet, at least as measured
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: by a con On the Bloomberg Termer you can type
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: f c O and go for the financial conditions, but
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: gold other function of the day. I mean, all the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: big banks also have their own con um UH indexes. Danielle,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: why do you think that is? Why do you think
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: this UH hawkish pivot, the tightening that we're seeing not
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: just from the Fed but globally from central banks hasn't
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: um fed through into financial conditions. Well, I mean, look,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: we didn't increase the paper and my good friend Dr
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Lacy Hunt says that there is a three times multiplier
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: that you can apply to liquidity being reduced the same
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: way you would apply to liquidity being increased. But we
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: haven't seen this. But for two weeks into January with
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: the with the taper increased to billion from the prior
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: fifteen billions. We've got another thirty billion coming on February
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: of the first, so you know they're the liquidity is
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: being pulled from the system. But we're not seeing the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: effects of this except for in a very lagged fashion.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Well I say very like very lagged in central banker
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: speak as a former central banker, means like eighteen to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: twenty four months. But again we're seeing a very compressed cycle.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I'll be paying attention to the Philadelphia FIT and the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: other surveys that come out in the days to come,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: because everything that we that we're seeing right now suggests
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: that we're going to get in a disappointment when we
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: see the I s M. That's when I think you'll
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: see Wall Street pay pay better attention. Well, when you
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: say that we're headed for an industrial recession, when are
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: we gonna see? Is that what we see coming through
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: in the I s M. Where are you going to
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: see that? For? First, I think you will see it
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: in the I M first, and again I think that
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: if you're if you're talking about the nine most manufacturing
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: intensive states in the nation, with Indiana being the most
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: intensive of them all as as a as a percentage
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: of their growth state products, that five at the last,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: that that five straight weeks of weakening initial jobless claims
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: is saying something to you. They're up in that short
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: time frame, Danielle. I often I just can't understand that.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Why you know Indiana when you say Indiana, I think
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: of um electric cars because Rivian produces there. I think
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the town is called normal Indiana, Normal Indiana, and they
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: must be working triple shifts. I mean, isn't everyone buying
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: as much stuff as they can get? Aren't you ordering
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: all of it? I don't think we're ordering as much
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: as we think we're ordering. If you if you think
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: about car sales in America in the aggregate, again, electric
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: vehicles are a really hot spot right now, and there's
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: absolutely no denying that. But but when you think that
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: car sales holistically peaked in April, that's not like the
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: beginning of a small trend, you And there's more of
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a supply chain disruption in that length of a narrative.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: And we know that many companies have gone from just
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: in time inventory replenishment to just in case so and
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: we're starting to see evidence in the inventory data as
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: well that firms inventories they need for them to be
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: so in some cases you might be talking about opponent,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that being the semiconductor All right, Danielle, I love having
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: you on our show because oftentimes I hear from you
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: first on new topics like an industrial recession. Had not
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: heard that at all. We need to do a whole
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: whole show with her. Daniel, next time you're in New York,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: please come in the studio. Yeah, let's do that absolutely.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Daniel de Martino, Booth CEO and Chief strategistic Quill Intelligence.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, folks, it's some of the smartest economic
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: uh and now's is out there. From my perspective, she
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: is so data intensive. Uh. Great follow on social media
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: as well because she shares her thoughts on social as well.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: All right, let's bring in David Deats. Let's get h
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: professional again. David Deet's managing Principal Senior portfolio strategists at
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Gladstone Bank. David, what do we do here? I mean,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I've got a rising interest rate environment for the remainder
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: of the year going into next year. It's been a
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: while since I've had to deal with that. What are
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: you telling your clients in terms of asset allocation for
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: the next year or two? Well, certainly you you want
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: to make sure that your long term asset allocations it
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: is here too, because the problem here, Matt is that. Um.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: You know, stocks uh do not necessarily benet from rising
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: interest rates. Obviously it reduces the present value of all
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: those future earnings, but don't look so good either, um Uh.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: You know, as yields go up than bond prices go down.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: We saw a negative return on the major bonding necks
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: last year, and it started out that way this year.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: So I think this year you continue to be fully
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: committed to stocks um, but you do want to pick
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: your spots because I think you're gonna see different winners
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: uh this year than perhaps you've seen during the pandemic.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: What about the you know, we're talking with cretty good
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: earlier across assets reporter, and she said, one way a
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: lot of people are hedging inflation is just by buying
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the things that inflate, i e. The commodities themselves. Well,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: certainly stay diversified, but but we have seen, of course
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: commodities and energy prices, particularly UH skyrocket since the depths
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: of the pandemic. UM. Energy prices have gone up every
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: day this year. Certainly, there's geopolitical developments on the horizon.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: You've got a pipeline explosion between Turkey and Iraq. They've
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: got United State says that Russia may immediently invade Ukraine.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: All those things could drive energy prices higher. Posts of course,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the more overriding factor is we are ultimately think going
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to get out of this pandemic and that's going to
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: drive demand for energy. So that's interesting, gave. You know,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: on the energy front, I'm looking at w T I
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: crewed here up another one point four percent, just under
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: eight seven dollars per barrel. You know, the energy stocks,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: you know they've been they were so out of favor
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: for both cyclical and secular reasons, but they've had a
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: nice run. And do I take my profits here? Do
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I have more room to go? So I definitely agree
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: with you that they seem over bought here. Um And
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: and certainly, you know, some analysts are coming out now
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and saying, hey, you know, um, this business that they're
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: gonna hold back on further development because of pressure from
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: green forces and because they just want to return capital shareholders.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Not necessarily we're not. We're seeing you know, junk graded
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: energy companies being able to uh tap the borrowing windows
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: very easily. We're seeing rick count surge at the same
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: pace that it did back in the last time that's
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: happened two thousand sixteen, two thousand seventeen. Nevertheless, I do
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: think that um uh, that there is more discipline on
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the part of these energy companies. They want to return
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: money to shareholders. Basically shareholders need to return. Has been
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: so long that they've been down in the cellar that
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: they think we've got more room to go. And I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: think that should be part of a world there's reverse
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: surviveed portfolio. When do you think the tightening environment? And
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: to be fair, we've had basically job owning us far right.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: But um if the FED is going to tighten uh
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and by raising raids four something some people are saying
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and and Wong from Bloomberg in tellis now five times
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: this year. As as they run off the balance sheet,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: when does that hit the real economy? David Well, Historically
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: it takes twelve to twenty four months, and historically stocks
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: have continued to do well until about the third rate hike.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: If in fact we get there, you know there's three
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: steps and the stumbles of famous Well Streets solved from
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: back in the seventies and eighties. Um So, I think
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: it's going to take a while. One reason we are
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: optimistic here, of course is there's tremendous political pressure to
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: keep this economy going for those in power to stay
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: in power. Um. And of course there's there's tremendous political
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: pressure to make sure that everyone states fully employed here.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So I think that although there's a lot of jaw
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: boning bowing, as you pointed out, UM, if they see
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: any real effect on the economy. And it's difficult because
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: all this stuff works with the lag, it takes a while.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I think you're gonna be quick to recalibrate exactly what
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: they need to do. That's interesting. That's in Muhammad arians
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: op ed that came out overnight. He essentially said that's
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: one of the main reasons that the market and financial
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: conditions haven't tightened along with the Fed tawk Is pivot,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: is that a lot of people don't believe the central
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: banks will even do it, or that if they do that,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: they'll fall allow through and go the whole way. Really,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, the communication has been so clear.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: It seems like the messaging has been so clear. The
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: transitory messaging was super clear last year. Good point, good point,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: all right. David Date's managing principal and senior portfolio strategists
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: for Gladstone Bank joining us there giving us his thoughts
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: on these markets and inflation outlook and risk assets. Let's
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: get right to R. J. Gallo, senior portfolio manager at
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Federator Hermes. He's a former financial alice with the Federal
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Reserve Bank of New York and ARCH. I guess I
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: want to start with the Federal Reserve. Is my Federal
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Reserve behind the curve here? Um? Yes? I think the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: tone of the FOMC speakers recently clearly portrays that the
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: policy making officials, the FOC members voting or not, all
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: have woken up to the idea that inflation is just
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: too high and they need to act boldly to address it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: So how boldly will they act? We're starting to hear
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and see the my market basically price in if you
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: look at Euro dollar futures um a fifty point at
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the possibility of a fifty basis point hike in March, Yeah,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: it's striking. I mean, it's been a long time since
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: we've seen that type of incremental tightening that scale, usually
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: twenty five basis points is dogma these days. But obviously
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: we're in challenging times. The FED throughout the playbook to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: ease in the face of the pandemic crisis. I wouldn't
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: be surprised if they have to rewrite some things or
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: revisit the past and being more bold on the way
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: back up In terms of tightening. That's said, I don't
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: anticipate in the fifty basis point move um. I think
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: one of the key challenges to the FED right now
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: is can they address the inflation problem without causing financial
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: conditions to tighten accessively. It's sort of like walking a
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: tight rope. I think part of the language we're getting
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: from them it sounds very bold by design now that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I don't think you're trying to deceive us. But they
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: have to talk tough. One of the key facets of
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the market's interpretation of inflation lately has been it's really
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: high now, but it won't stay there. How do you
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: keep that market in that mindset? You talk tough as
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: a FEDE official, and you're gonna have to deliver, You're
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: gonna have to tighten, you're gonna have to taper. All
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the things they're talking about. I don't think it serves
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: their purpose to do so in a way that causes
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: financial conditions to crumble. Well, we still see financial conditions,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: We still see them quite loose. And this is a
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: question that John Faroh has been asking a lot over
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the past couple of weeks. When our financial condition is
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: going to be affected by UM, you know, rate increases
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Muhammad Area and posing the same question and an op
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: ed overnight. But I guess what you're saying is the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: question should be if it's possible for the FED to
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: tighten without financial conditionings, financial conditions UM getting uh too problematic,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: too difficult. I think they need financial conditions to tighten.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously the stock markets had an incredible run.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Credit spreads are tight, cost the capital is low, capital provision.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: You can get capital in most places of reasonable prices
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: these days, and I think the FED wants that to
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: reverse somewhat, But they don't want to cause a disorderly
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: crash of some sort. They don't want the stock market
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to go down. We know how the FED responds when
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that happens. How many people have been talking about the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: FED put probably is UH further out of the money
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: these days, and that might be true, but the FED
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: isn't going to try to engineer a situation where we
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: see a bear market in stocks just to tighten financial conditions.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I think they would instead talk tough, deliver in a
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: methodical and still somewhat gradual way. Don't go fifty five,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: but stop adding to the balance sheet. He talked about
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: reducing the balance sheet and do it in ways that
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the markets are not surprised at the fact that the Fed,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: facing nearly seven percent inflation, is acting aggressively. People rationally
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: expect they should be acting aggressively. If they weren't, I
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: think the markets would be worse off. We'd be very
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: concerned that our central bankers have just lost all religion
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: with respect to inflation. That would be a worse outcome
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: than actually trying to tighten those conditions without causing a crash.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: All right, r J, thank you so much for joining us.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Always appreciate getting your perspective here. R J. Gallo, Senior
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: portfolio manager for Federated Herme's talking about these fixed income markets.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: What is being discounted in the credit markets today. Let's
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: talk a little crypto here. You know are when we
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: talk crypto a lot of times we'll go to Mike McGlone.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: He's there, kind of our crypto guy at Bloomberg Intelligence
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: to get the investment research angling, he moved to Miami, Florida,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: And I thought it was just a scam, everybody else
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: moving to Miami, getting out of New York, selling their
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: New York property and going down there. But he tells
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: me Miami is becoming a crypto hub. And I'm like,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, New York is the financial hub, but
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: what's going on here? So let's bring in somebody who
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: kind of as the stuff for living Alex Lamberg, CEO
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: of Nimbus. Alex doesn't matter. Does crypto have a hub
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: like Wall Street for the financial services industry, like the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: City of London for financial services in Europe? Does crypto
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: have a kind of a hub? Uh? Good, good afternoon,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: A good morning still, and thank you for having me this.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: This crypto have a hub? Well, it should, but it
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: certainly shouldn't be one city. And I'll give you my
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: my my logic here. Right. Um, So you started off
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: by saying, you know, New York as a hub for
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: financial products and and it should retain that. It should
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: retain that, Monica, right, you know, no matter what we
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: do as far as witch industries, we're going to we
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: always want to find a standard, right, and a gold
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: standard or some form of guidance or some form of
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: some kind of a standard. And and you you you
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: have to understand that blockchain will cater to a whole
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: school of products, a whole smooth innovation from from finance
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: to social, to medical, to you know, to everything else. Right.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: So so when we do speak about you know, when
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: we do speak about New York, you know, it's important
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: that New York screams from the top of the from
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the mountains that they want to retain that financial you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: to become to retain that financial hub as a as
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a gold standard. Not not only that that they should
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: also retain that gold standard from a regulatory perspective, right,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: And and that's what they are to the world. And
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, regulatory is the most horrific word
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: when it comes to blockchain and define everything else. But
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it really isn't right, Uh, you know, regulation, regulation is
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: going to be tried for you know, when you know
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: investors or that participants, let's in this particular space, UH
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: need someone that that policing and that guidance. Right. Everyone
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: hates the police until your house gets robbed, right, and
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: then they started screaming and even even CEOs like myself, right,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: you know, you know we we we cry against regulation
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: because we want to get into this space. What happens
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: when we actually create a company and we have a
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: product in service and other participants in the view want it,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: you know, are not doing it the right way, right,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and then we want regulation as well. Right, So New
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: York women should be that stand up or wherever c
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Z is at the time. I guess Alex, let me
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: ask you about Nimbus because, um, you know, Bitcoin was
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the white paper came out what two thousand nine by
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Satoshi and Nimbus is, as far as I understood it,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: a cipher that was from ten years before that. So
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: what do you do? So so Nimbus Nimbus is a
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: traditional defying company. Well, we'll defined the way defines being
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: used today. Right, it's you know, we have a school
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: of products, of school of apps, but primarily we're focused
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: on lending, uh, you know, peer to liquidity, providing peer
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to peer uh and and lending. Where I'm taking nimbusis
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: taking Nimblais to start leveraging all of the alternative assets
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: that we've wanted to run in efficient markets and have
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: price discovery. Uh. And pure liquidity and all that other
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: good stuff. So we're taking what is a four hundred
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: billion dollar alternative asset space that exists purely on the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: auction model and actually starting to bring it in uh
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: to a more liquid market and more efficient marketplace. That's
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: what embasis, you know, for the most part. I mean,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: we're a hundred men organization, hundred person organization, I should say, uh,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: in seven different countries, and we're starting to get a
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: decent foothold in the US. Alex yeh. I'm looking at,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you know, the volatility that we've I guess become accustomed
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: to in the crypto space. And again Bitcoin just for example,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: down one point three today, just unders per token. What's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: your outlook for crypto this year and beyond, because you know,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: we're going to be in an inflation we are an
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: inflationary period. We're in a period were interest rates or
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: will be right using. How do you think the crypto
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: asset class performs in that environment? I think, uh, I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: think that I fullheartedly believe that the crypto ax the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: class is going to do extraordinarily well for for for
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: basically what you just said, right, you know, you know,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: inflationary periods. What's going to happen with the interest rates
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: uh uh and the whole slow of other factors that
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: crypto really should live outside of now right now, because
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: so much of that is either pegged or or or
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: have a tie into the traditional markets. I believe that
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: those things are going to start, you know, instead of
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: converging there, they're gonna start to try to dislocate from
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: each other. When that happens, uh, they'll start trading on
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: their own basis what is the utility of that coin um, etcetera, etcetera.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And and and the fact that you can't just keep printing
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: those things and like you can with the US dollar
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: or other fiat currencies, the world will start getting down understanding.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: The other thing is going to start driving the volatility
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: down is keep in mind that the crypto space is
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: into a test similarly tiny I mean, uh, you know,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Amazon has a bigger market value market cap, and then
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: then the whole crypto space combined, and as as regulators
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: start to you know, get on the ball and start
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: working with companies like you know, like Nimbus and others,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: uh and and you know, and and actually start to
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: tease and and help this space more than um, you
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: know more than heard it. For now you're gonna you're
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: gonna see that value and the volatilities start to drive
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: itself down. Alex, thanks so much for joining us. Alex Lamberg,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: there is the CEO of Nimbus talking to us about crypto.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can
• 21:37
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• 21:41
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• 21:45
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• 21:48
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• 21:51
  Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio