Latest / Kind of a Big Deal / From Achievement Addict to Authentic: Building a Brand (and a Life) from the Inside Out

Transcript

From Achievement Addict to Authentic: Building a Brand (and a Life) from the Inside Out · Kind of a Big Deal

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome back to kind of a big deal.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kristen Beldon, and I have a great conversation for you today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: What happens when you spend decades achieving everything you were supposed to want, only to wake up one day feeling like you're wearing an itchy sweater?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest Ariana knows that feeling intimately.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's the co-founder and managing partner of Flight Design, a design studio working with purpose-driven organizations, as well as the co-founder of Kindredly, a community reimagining what it means to work, live, and engage outside the structures that weren't built for most of us.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what I love most about her story isn't what's on her resume.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's what lives underneath it.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: She's a poet, a photographer, a wilderness guide, turned youth developer, turned brand strategist, a self-described recovering achievement addict who spent a decade blowing up the version of herself she'd been building for everyone else.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about creativity as resistance to hustle culture, what it actually means to build a brand from the inside out, why the thing you're most afraid to show people is probably your most powerful differentiator, and what biology might have to say about why women in midlife are just getting started.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: This one got deep fast.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you love it as much as I do.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Ariana.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So good to see you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to be here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: For those that might not be watching but are just listening, we showed up and realized we're matchy matchy.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're twinsies today.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's October and it's these are autumn in all colors.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is our pumpkin spice latte sweater.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is sweater season.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Which I'm so ready for.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is actually of all the seasons, I think it's my favorite.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone always asks why it's not spring, but I feel like fall for me is such a moment of reflection and a moment to like get a little quiet.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm more comfortable with that quiet in my life than I think I ever have been.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I welcome that in a lot differently, maybe than I used to.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I always say, like, I live by the seasons, so I don't have I like pretty intentionally.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a little bit of my like witchy self, but also just part of my way of being.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't have a favorite because each of them so special.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like special and like brings out parts of me that I love that I'm like, oh, this season, you know.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we're heading one of my favorites, which is hibernation season, where I'm just like, hmm, cozy cozy, you know.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm ready for that.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Ariana and I have known each other since I would like to see since we were babies, because I feel like that's now how I look at people that were our age when we met.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: We were in our early 20s, gallivanting around San Francisco, having for time of my life.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I loved the years that we were there together.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, mutual friends brought us together.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she's just one of those people that you might have already heard this and what she was just sharing, but she just has such a light, and she radiates this like creative warmth.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's incredibly lovely, incredibly smart.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say she's always willing to like go there, as I like to say, which is which is my favorite because I can sometimes be a lot for people.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, why are we what I didn't even get to tell you how I feel about the weather yet?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, tell me your deepest, darkest secrets.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am for sure the one at the party who's like in the corner with the one person, and we're like crying, you know, and everyone's like, you didn't even say hi to me.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's fine.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're having a thing over here.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're cool.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is so real.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It makes me feel a kindred spirit to you, knowing that there's others in the world that are navigating conversations in that way.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like a little bit allergic to small talk, but like going deep with a stranger just anytime, anytime.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, anytime, anytime.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's the mom to two incredible kiddos.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: We were actually just talking about what it means for her children to be growing up and how that is shifting some of her own energy output.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: But she's the co-founder and managing partner of Flight Design Co., which is a I'll let her tell you more about it, but I'll give you the just the highlight, which is graphic design studio dedicated to supporting purpose-driven organizations.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe it's been close to 15 years, but you can correct me on that if that's not right.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Also the co-founder of Kindredly, which is just a really incredible and special group of people that the way you talk about it and the way it's written is reimagining the way that we work, live, and engage in our communities.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really beautiful way of speaking about it because I think so many times these types of communities can be your professional identity or your personal identity, and the fact that it's people bringing all of those components to the table and talking through some of their challenges or supporting people through kind of what they're witnessing or navigating.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just not your average community, any that I've seen, anyhow.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: They're people that show up for each other and for themselves, which I think is really important.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about supporting others, but it's being accountable to yourself and your own hopes and dreams.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really, you can see just by the connective tissue that's created.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I went to one meetup uh earlier this year, and I still see people that I met at that time communicating online, supporting each other, and it's just a really beautiful thing to see.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really inspiring.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually through a series of conversations at one of those meetups uh and encouragement from Ariana that I finally let go of my fear and some of my perfectionism and started to put some content out there.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have your group and you to thank for some of that.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yay!
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, other people are not, you know, saying, oh man.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wish you wouldn't have done that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: God, where'd she get that advice?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's quiet down.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: She's everywhere now.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I mean, I will have so many questions for you because what you're creating is so unique and so beautiful.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I'd like to just start with have you always seen yourself as an entrepreneur, or did you see yourself when you were younger being drawn to creating or to building something for yourself?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that something that was a little bit more surprising for you?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think um my entrepreneurial self, I think that the truer sense is that I've always been a creative and um and a community builder.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when those two things overlap, like entrepreneurship is kind of I don't know if it's inevitable, but it's a very kind of cohesive way to follow those two through lines.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was never like, oh, I'm definitely gonna start a business.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, I was the kid who was like lemonade standing and selling friendship bracelets and coming up with very like various groups and organizations and different ways of engaging in my community throughout my entire life.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not, I don't think it was shocking to anyone.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think also there was like a real uh I've always had a little bit more comfort with risk taking than I think um the average person, maybe, at least in my experience.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I also was someone who was just like, I'm not gonna go the conventional route.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think that was another part where I was like, I don't know, let's make something.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can make up rules and like go a different, different direction.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so that um, yeah, that feels that feels more true, probably.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did you would you have been able to say that about like when you look back on earlier childhood, do you see that as a through line from a risk taking and kind of being you know, pushing the boundaries a little bit on what the norm might have been?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I do.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, yeah, I mean, I think the through line is like, yeah, it's like a little wild.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a slightly feral child, you know, like like my fate, you know, we lived in this like 800 square foot old farmhouse, four-room farmhouse that was on about half an acre in a small town in Northern California.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so my mom was always just like, get the hell out of the space.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't enough space for my amount of energy.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I lived outside in our yard and like in the apple trees and in the blackberry bushes and um and all of that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that energy just led to me like climbing the tallest trees, and I was a you know, a wilderness guide for a while.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was a Whitewater River guide and I did all the adrenaline-seeking outdoor adventure things.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I mean, I have stories that we won't get into of just like I'm really glad I'm alive because of, you know.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think about that a lot.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think Nessa and I shared that with each other in our last conversation, where it's like, yeah, there are things that if my children were making that decision, I would be like, oh, hell no.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what I'm sorry, what are you doing?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Honest to God, my mom and I just chatted, I think earlier this week, and she was like, Kristen, I was thinking recently about something that happened when you were living in San Francisco, and I cannot believe I feel like if that happened now, I would not live through it.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: This like, how did I as a mom allow that to happen?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, you know, say like okay.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, I'm pretty sure I didn't give you a choice, number one.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Your future is just kind of doing the thing.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean it's wild because I have a you know, almost 17-year-old now.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And watching it is this like phase of being able to really become your own human and trust that they're going to take the risks they need to take and the adventures they need to take, and that they have enough sense to be able to show up for themselves, you know.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that is it.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I think I I also parented a little bit that way.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was the parent where my kids like on the top of the play structure and everyone in the It's like they're like, you're and I'm like, he's fine, he knows his limits, like, you know, they're like, uh, okay.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: My kids are very aware of their own boundaries because they know mom is not gonna be like helicoptering them.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um which I think you know it has its its pluses and minuses.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they'll be in therapy for it in some way, but um, but yeah, it's so that's kind of that that risk taking, that adventure seeking has always been there.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it transitioned to before I started the design studio, I went into coaching.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And prior to that, I was working in youth development.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like wilderness guide to youth development to career and leadership coach to this design studio where we do a lot of branding.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think all along the way, the thing that I'm doing is guiding people through scary shit and helping them be themselves through it, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so whether that's practical of oh, you're facing your fear of getting in this like rapid and knowing your boundaries and what that is, to talking to a high school.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I worked at a high school in East Oakland and talking to a high schooler about like who do they want to be in the world and what does that mean?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that mean for a family?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all of those pieces, and again, facing that fear and having to stay true to yourself and move through it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And now when I work with entrepreneurs, it's the same thing, right?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I be more of myself and face that fear of failure or fear of success or fear, you know, any of those pieces.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um my gosh, I love that.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there really is a through line, and it's all connected, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's all connected to that, those themes of creativity and self-expression and and like adventure, like being in that risk space.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you this is maybe a weird question, but it just it triggered something for me when you were talking about navigating fear and what it means, especially you know, with a startup or entrepreneur.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever find that there could also be maybe a fear of actually getting to know themselves through that process and what that might bring up for them as they're building or moving or evolving?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, when we like we do a lot of visual identities.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we have this design studio and we work with majority of like purpose-driven or values-driven organizations, which as we've grown, I mean, like you said, it's been 15 years, so we work with kind of bigger organizations, so it's less personal now.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: But we still work with individuals, you know, like who are starting their own consultancy or it's their art or in some way that we're branding, or it's something along those lines.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: But when we started, I was kind of adverse to branding.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, ooh, like that doesn't, I'm all about authenticity.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all about your own expression and like artistry and all of that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: This feels like smoke and mirrors.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I dove into it and realized, again, like, how do we do it our way?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not working for some brand agency that's teaching me.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, we're kind of humming up with our own way of building brands.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized it's actually more, at least when we go through the process, about stripping away the hidden pieces to the heart of the work you're doing.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we tell that story both visually and you know, through messaging?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So often when it really sings with clients, they're like, oh my gosh, I'm reflected back to myself.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, right.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's gonna be so hard.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So oftentimes we're like, oh, that's not you don't need that, or that's a story you're telling, or just because this other, you know, jewelry designer does it this way, doesn't mean that you need like you need to be you.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I say all the time the thing that you are worried about people finding out, like the thing that you're like, this is my weirdest thing.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I've sell it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're gonna lean into that because that's the thing that's actually gonna differentiate you from anyone else.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that is so I think it's particularly for people of a generation and potentially also women identifying of a generation.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: There is a theme that I'm starting to kind of hear come up, which is so much around that fear to allow themselves to be seen, not only by others, but even by themselves, to actually acknowledge and embrace the parts that make us, you know, unique and wonderful and incredible, and all the things, because many of us have molded ourselves to some other, maybe what we thought a vision of success or whatever might look like, but we realize at some point it doesn't fit quite right.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so to dig into that, I can imagine you get into all kinds of interesting conversations.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I was mentioning to you, I went through my own version of that, and it wasn't so much through the design studio, although I'm sure there was a little bit of that early on in the evolution of that career.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I was always someone who was, you know, I say it's like I'm a recovering achievement at the end.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was like next thing, next thing, like, okay, get straight A's, get into the college, get the full ride scholarship, become the hood recipient.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was like, next thing, next thing, next thing.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so much of those achievements.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got the husband and the two kids and the thing, like the house and the all of it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I woke up in it being like, I mean, I even got the business.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was like, okay, now I'm doing my business, and I have the things.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this feels so like an itchy sweater.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, ugh, like this isn't me.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think probably hearkening back to the like I have some comfort in risk, and I have always been someone who's like, whoa, I don't need to do it the conventional way.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let me figure out.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I had to blow it up and be like, what else is here?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that journey, this has been over the last decade or so, has been through being more true to myself.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And really a big part of that was honoring my inner artist, which I was like, I'm not an artist, I'm creative, or like I whatever, but I've been writing poetry since I could write, you know, like I have books and books and books and books of it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so 10 years ago, I started.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting story.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're going down this this path.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it's okay telling the story, but do you know of the Hundred Day Project?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So wait, is this the one?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is this the like hundred days of doing a creative act and every day.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So El Luna at the time was running this 10 years ago, and it was like an online group.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was like through Instagram, and so my business partner and founder Katrina was like, you know, her friend of yours.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that she was like, we have to do this.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, okay, let's do it.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was I decided to write one line of poetry every day.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing that poured out of me was this poem that if you read, you'd be like, You good, like, you okay?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and I was like, Oh, interesting.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then the crazy part is it's actually called Wild, and it spoke so much to one of my friends who was a photographer that she was like, we need to turn this into a visual uh story.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so she and I, with five children between us under the age of six, set out to turn this poem into pictures, into images, and in the process, also the images into poetry.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was this like beautiful thing.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had these babies with us, and I got naked, literally naked, and was out in the I mean, I broke into abandoned buildings, I jumped into Molly.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not kidding.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: This how do I not know about this?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is the best thing ever.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, well, because you don't know about it, because we probably shot over three or four years, and then I ended up getting divorced.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there were so many things.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: She moved out of the area, COVID hit, all of this stuff happened, and so the project never like was revealed, but it's going to be.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say, please tell me that it's gonna be the light of day.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the crazy part is that this year it came back around and she's like, I think it's time.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's coming at some point, and it's in process.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're making it into to start with like a zine that you can purchase, a little book, self-published book, but we're definitely hoping to show it somewhere as well.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that is so cool.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that poem and then project and all of that led to so much of me listening and leading into this through line of creativity and expression through photography and poetry.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And literally last week I launched a website for myself that combines all of the things.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yay!
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt like this moment of being like, oh, I am I am an artist, I am a photographer, I am a writer, I also own this design studio, I run this design studio, I also am a community builder.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to bring them all together and see myself in that way.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting that you were saying that about do clients do that and they do, like I just did that.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, I just am like here I am.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, that might I have so much that I want to talk about with that because there's so much there.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: One around what you just said, because I think that this will feel very compelling to people who might be multifaceted and have things that they are passionate about, but might not fit neatly into what we consider the like confines or a structure of a career or a business.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think about this for myself all the time as well.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I shared this with you before we started recording.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: You go out to build a business, and along the way, you might start stumbling into things that remind you, like, oh wait, I love storytelling.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wait, I love creating content.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I too, right, am an artist.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I, but you don't, we don't typically as a society, I think, honor that because it's like, well, here you are, especially I will say, like, shout out to whatever's going on in LinkedIn, where now it's not just you're showing up with your corporate self.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn is like my new favorite thing, but yes, it's fantastic because it's real and it's actually what makes us amazing at what we do as humans, right?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: We are great in our careers or professions because of all of these other elements and who we are.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I cannot wait for that to be sent out on the platform so that folks can see what that might look like in practice.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't even shared it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like pre both of the things I just talked about are like you're the hearing about it first.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so excited because that's hugely beneficial, I think, for folks that might not be able that might feel that in themselves, but might not be able to see it for themselves just yet.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um the thing that I find is is it's about what I where I had to come through was at first, when I was first thinking about launching the website, it was like, oh, if this wild project is coming out, I need somewhere for people to put it, right?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it didn't make sense, it doesn't make sense on my design.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Studio didn't make sense for kinda like there, none of the other existing platforms made sense.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, Oh, I'll do an artist website.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was going to be my name as the URL.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this isn't just who I am though, either, right?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was starting to teach more.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And these students, I would rather give them this so they could see all of my things if they want, and really starting to see myself as the fullness of all the multifaceted expressions that I have out in the world.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I figured out a way to really tell that through line.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it like, I'm like, of course.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: My creativeness and artistry comes through when I am holding space in community, right?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's there.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or the way that I embrace nature and the emergence, right, of new things shows up in the way I run my business.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: These aren't they're not separate.
• 22:55
  unknown: Right.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like they are one human.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know that that, I mean, as a brand person, I don't know that that always works totally super well.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think when you're creating a personal professional brand, it needs to.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be able to tell that story.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then each kind of facet might need its own brand as well.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like right.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're that through line though is such the to your point, that's the trick.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is part of the journey when you're thinking about how you want to share your work or you know, the quote unquote what you want people to know you for.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's you have to be able to look at and not just bucket these things as these individualized experiences.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: There is something there that was stacking to get you to where you are today, and how do you articulate that in a way that feels true to where you want to be or where you're headed?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really hard to do.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not easy to reflect on your own journey in that way.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's helpful, I think, to have a guide or somebody that can coach you through that because you can spend a lot of time, and I I know this because I have done it.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have spent so much time in reflection, and you can get really in your head in a way that the reflection is important, but I think somebody to help hold a mirror up is also really, really important in that process.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you never know.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so I write on Substack.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the things that I started maybe two years ago at this point.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And my writing on Substack is personal essays, they are not about brand or professional stuff at all.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I will occasionally share them on LinkedIn with this like this is then my dipping the toe into being a full self out in the in the world, like cross-pollinating those audiences.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I don't have a ton of followers.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is not like a big, big platform by any means, but I have you know two paid subscribers.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, my dad is one of them.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, dad, we love you.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: But the other one is this very professional, like from an org, the ED, like definitely not someone that I met in a like, and she's just like, I love your writing.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to support like and it's like one of those pieces where you're like, I don't know you in a real it's not like we socialize, it's not like one of those professional relationships that's gone friendship.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: She's a full client, and she just is like, Yes, I love this part of you.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I That's so cool.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I you just never know.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's what makes us unique and human, which is what we need more of right now, I think.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I totally agree.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I also think one of the things that you touched on that I think is super important is we're all any ambitious person, anybody that is, you know, uh excited to find success in whatever way they want to describe that for themselves.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: We want instant gratification.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: We want the thing to happen now, and it's really, really hard sometimes to be patient with what I mean.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about building an art piece from however many years ago finally coming to fruition.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we we tend to see the final piece as the consumer, as the audience, and think like, wow, this brilliant thing just came out of this person's head, and like, why can't I do that?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is probably more often than not, this is something that was cycled from like however many moons of creation and experience, and that's what makes it so rich and so beautiful, is that now it's being shared in this entirely new context.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is in any part of business and creativity in anything to allow to let that breathe is really hard.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And even, I mean, I think people say that all the time like, oh my gosh, your fame came overnight, or what and you're like, did you see years of effort?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even when there's some like a snowball effect that happens, which I've seen and I think that that's awesome when it does, there's so much buildup, regardless, even if it doesn't, even if it's not visible, or even if you haven't seen the backlog, it's there.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, totally, yes.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last thing I wanted to say was if anybody is interested in anything related to the Hundred Days Project, this is so funny.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I literally have this book sitting right next to me.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I swear this wasn't a plan, but this is this author.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Also, that's that's our book club book this month, just FYI.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is not, yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: You should come to our book club.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, are you being serious?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's all of your friends, so you're welcome to come.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: You are invited.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, I'm dead.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, that is the funniest thing.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Her her first book or this one?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: This one.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if this woman wrote, did you read her first book?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I followed her um her step stack.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to be a good one.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely about gorgeous.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is called Between Two Kingdoms, and it's her entire reflection and journey of navigating an illness that just totally took her down.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the two kingdoms are one of health and one of sickness, and what it meant for her to walk through that.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: I got this book, which is called The Book of Alchemy, simply because I adored that book so much.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was anytime I love an author, I'm like, well, I'll just get whatever they come out with.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: I won't even look at it.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea that it's a daily creative practice, and you are given a journal prompt every day.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have not done it every single day.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be totally real about it, but it's something I keep coming back to because it's such a beautiful way just to get the wheels turning a little bit.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be a writer, you don't have to, it doesn't have to be that you're super interested in writing as a practice, but just the prompts themselves.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: A few have been so incredible.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Just for somebody too that has a terrible memory, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I need somebody to be like, think specifically about this.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then it all starts to come out.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I really can't get over the fact that you guys are reading this book.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, we're starting like this, like we had book club last night.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's starting for this next month.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're meeting in November.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, I got the book like months ago.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually my picks for this coming month because I'm hosting.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I got the book months ago and then was like, oh, this is the book that we're sharing.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I gave everyone a heads up because I'm like, there's I think a hundred of them.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it's supposed to be a daily practice, it won't work if you wait until the month that we're doing this.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you might want to start first.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I am so I've been doing them periodically, but I'm gonna challenge myself starting today to try and do the every day up until the book club.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if you okay, I'm gonna take that.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna take that as some accountability.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I think so the so she speaks about this, and I think you're right.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it started with this professor.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow the professor is connected with the artist L Luna, and I don't know the whole story.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so she somehow got the license of 100 Day Project from somehow.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: There was like a thing, and so then she really, again, a decade ago, shared it far and wide as this practice, and there were tons of people that were a part of it.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think she passed it on to this woman, Lindsay.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of iterations.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it still exists, but okay, at the heyday, it was amazing because everyone picked a different 100 day project, right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like Seth's assignment.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then you would kind of name it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So mine was hashtag hundred days of writing one line of poetry a day.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but our friend, I mean, I've mentioned her now twice, but my co-founder Katrina, that's how her book came about.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Was the seriously?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you serious?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't think she made it through a full hundred because they were kind of more complicated, but that's how it all started.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's how her song lyric project started.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Same year, the same year.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then a book agent saw the success.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: We did her an art show and we sold prints through flight design, but then a book agent was like, I want to pitch your book.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so then she got a HarperCollins book deal for it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is crazy.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so obviously, hey Katrina, you're coming on next.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Prepare yourself.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing her along.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think for anybody that's interested in tapping into a practice outside of what they might be, you know, engaged in on the daily, it is a really nice way of, yeah, just kind of committing yourself because it doesn't have to be a huge lift.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's so many things I've followed over the last few years.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Mel Robbins does this when her launch program, which is just do 15 minutes a day every day.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: It does not have to be, and this is something I'm also terrible at because I feel like if I can't do it for four hours a day, then forget it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: I may as well just say, you know, never mind.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is what you get when you stack, you know, those tiny moments of time over the course of 90 days, whatever it is, you'll be shocked at how much you've either uncovered or gotten done.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's just not, it's just not the way I'm wired.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really have to fight against this need or desire to have all the space in the world to do these creative things.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I know.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that we live in a culture.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: This comes back to the other thing I talk about all the time.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, capitalism forces this productivity, this uh, you know, attachment to achievement, this drive, drive, drive, and hustle culture that finally I feel like people are talking about how it doesn't work.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel like I've been trying to unlearn this again through this whole decade-long evolution of my own.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And creativity just immediately gets you in your body.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't, yeah, you can't hustle it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're actually in it, you can't hustle it.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of just like a minute of it, like you said, is just so helpful to kind of counter.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, I want to take you into, you know, you're this successful design studio co-owner.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have built this business.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yes, it's good.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: See, every time I'm in these conversations, I I feel like sometimes I look around, I'm like, how am I friends with these people?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: They're so amazing.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing such cool stuff.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what was kind of the impetus when you started thinking about what you now are calling kindredly?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Was there something that really drove you to?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I know you have shared that you've always been a community builder, but this is incredibly intentional.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is not just like a, you know, kind of organic soft thing.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is something very organic, actually.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like But in the sense of it's not like people are just randomly every once in a while coming together.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a way it emerged was incredible, was the most so I will the book I will plug that changed my life most recently was Emergent Strategy by Adrian Brown.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: So good, yes.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so good.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And well, that one and I haven't actually finished the whole book, but I saw them speak at a book launch.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I'm not gonna get we'll have to put the link or whatever.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember the authors, but it's called Beloved Economies.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I remember that one.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea so Beloved Economies gave me this idea of what does business look like from a post-capitalist lens?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a way to generate money and economy, grow an economy without it being um like extractive and exploitive and from this you know, top-down, not sustainable kind of structure that we currently exist in.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so the book goes through kind of like case studies of businesses that are doing it differently.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was already thinking about that, and then Adrienne Marie Brown's idea of this like emergence, letting things unfold instead of this.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I was trying to unlearn this idea of like set a goal, have a vision, go after it.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have to drive, achieve, achieve, achieve, and instead be like, all right.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the beautiful thing about Kindredly was so I had a friend, my co-founder Luisa Alberto, she has a really wonderful financial agency.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: So she does like bookkeeping and tax management and stuff for companies that are very similar to ours.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we always have kind of been collaborative.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was her client, she was my client, we just connected.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I we have always been aligned in values, and I was like, I want to do something with her around this.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when we met, I was like, I want to do something, I don't know what it is, but I want to gather people that think like us that are trying to do business differently.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so at first we were like, maybe it's a book club.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't know what it was gonna be, and so we just kind of started meeting and inviting people in.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I, over the years, have done this practice called what that I've coined creative roundtabling, where you get four people together and each person gets a turn to be the focus, and everyone then workshops with them, whatever they need support with.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so for all of these founders that are either like a solo founder and so they're alone in that world, or even just the folks that are like soloprinters and working for themselves, it's the space to get this other perspective and thought partnership.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when you bring people from different industries and different experience levels and all of that, it's like this magical thing happens.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so we just tried that at first, and that's the thing that everyone left.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're like, we want in person.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And since then, we've just tried other things and seen what people want and asked them, and it's now this robust community of like 70 plus people that are all trying to reimagine yeah, like what does business look like if we remove the white supremacist, patriarchal capitalist structures that we are existing in.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And instead, what does a matriarchical business structure look like?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely collaborative, it's definitely community founded, it's not so much driving, but it's probably more like all of those things.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, oh, what is that?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have gotten because we have these other businesses that are supporting our lives.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: This one we can really let have its freedom, kind of of like, can it support itself?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what has given it this breathing room to just become what it is.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's so beautiful.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the best communities that's how they start, right?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's with a desire to connect, it's with a way of thinking differently.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's do you ever read Rachel Rogers?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: She wrote um, We Should All Be Millionaires, which is a little bit of a it's a big one in the in the community.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't read it, but a lot of people talk about it.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's amazing, she's hilarious, and it's a little bit of like a you know, tongue-in-cheek title, but truly she is talking about women, minority women in particular, and our relationship to wealth and what it means to reimagine that for ourselves and to get comfortable with a new definition.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: And part of what she talks about is if you don't have the community, if it hasn't been built yet, then make it, then create it, because guaranteed there's other people that are also looking for that community and to see it thriving in the way that it is, it's like you can tell when you walk into a room how you feel when you walk in.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know you have found some version of your people when you walk into a room and you can like breathe easy, or you don't feel nervous when you're having a conversation with someone, which is exactly how I felt when I, you know, showed up for your for the in person meeting that I came to, which is counter to this is a tiny bit of a tangent, but I'm really curious if you have thoughts on this because I went to an event here locally, and I want to be careful here because this is not a uh criticism of what they did at all.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very different gathering, and it was really around investment, startup community, right?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: VC funding.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do you bring organizations that are looking for investment into a room with folks that are ready to invest?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a totally different kind of person in the room that has a different mindset, whatever.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was looking around the room, and shocker of all shockers, I was one of like 10 women, right?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking around in every company that is being shown as male-founded, and every single one person put up a slide of their board and it was literally 15 dudes.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was getting so distracted because I'm like, I can't quite get past the fact that here we are again.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about it because I'm like, how do you have this conversation in a way that's constructive?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not just like, oh, where's the women?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a literal, what can we be doing?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what came up for me was what can we be doing as a region?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe these conversations are already happening and I just don't know yet, and I haven't tapped into them.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: But we have an opportunity as a growing community to be doing things differently.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: What are the environments?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: What are the scenarios?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: What are the systems that we need to create in order for women to have more of an opportunity to either be in these spaces, to be building the thing?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think I finally came back to it's really not about how do we get more women founded businesses, it's what do we need to do to create the environment for that to happen because it's not a lack of incredible intellect or ability or creativity.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's typically the woman is taking on more of the caretaking duties or you know, the whatever duties that fall outside of what it means.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody posted something about Steve Jobs recently that was like he was so good at identifying the signal versus the noise.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, no shit, because that's what he got to do.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was he he got to do that?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: He got to focus on the signal.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: We typically and traditionally, as women, don't have that opportunity.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just got my brain spinning, and I'm wondering if you have thoughts on that or if you've seen it being done differently.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: I have two thoughts on this topic.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have a million thoughts on this topic.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like one of the things I think about all the time.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: But the two comments I want to make one is we did a project, this was years ago now, maybe three or four years ago.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I did it with this incredible data visualizer named Katherine Madden.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's a collaborator I work with all the time, and she's just awesome.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And she and I got hired to run these focus groups for Gavin Newsom's wife, Jennifer Cybel Newsome.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cybele Newsom, thank you.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Her like governor wife project, there's two of them, but the one that we were working on was about getting uh equity on corporate boards in California.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so they passed legislation that required 50% women.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: They were starting with women, but they had a whole plan of then it being about uh diversity of race and age, all these other markers.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were holding these focus groups with all these organizations, VC funds, the like women's funds, the people that have been fighting for this equity.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I facilitated the focus group, and Catherine visualized it to get this information that then they were using to move their cause forward.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: So these conversations are happening, but the thing that I was gonna say that happened with kind of this political climate shift was there was a lot of momentum for that.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then basically, this legislation got um canceled or in high court.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so now it's no longer required, the thing, right?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there were these ways to actually build infrastructure for these diversity requirements, but a lot of what was being said in those conversations was like, I can get women on board, I can get you women that are qualified.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people are like, Oh, there's not enough quality, and you're like, No, no, no, I have a list, but when they arrive, they're not heard, they don't feel welcome, there's not like any so it's like a culture shift that needs to happen because all the data, there is a business case, all the data shows that your business you have higher profit margins with a more diverse board, period.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally, yeah.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like that is what all of the research shows, and yet the like white cis man is holding on with like tooth and nail to like something that is antiquated and outdated, and honestly, like anti capitalist is not gonna make you more money.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, yes.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's a good parallel because you know, in my mind, when I was specifically thinking about female founded companies, because I will get the counter when I say 2% of VC funding goes to female founded businesses, they're like, well, that's not true, but that isn't true.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can attack on a couple extra percentage points.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: If it's female and male founded, right?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because that counts.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: But female only founded businesses.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think where I'm curious is are the conversations happening on a local level where we there's just in my mind more opportunity to create a shift when you're doing things based on a community or a region.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: All of those initiatives are incredibly important, and I support all of them.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious if there's additional work that can be done in the conversations that are happening locally.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also around there are many different kinds of like incubators that focus on this and all of that.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: But like right now, they're all being scrutinized and can't show that because DA DEI is something like right.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we're in a particular moment where it's like this covert operation of creating these spaces where we're like, okay, we're kind of building some things, but we're not really talking, you know.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for me, I agree.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's so much opportunity in small business to try these things on and practice pieces that I believe will move culture forward because it's able to incubate in that kind of uh smaller space where there's way more flexibility and we don't have boards that we're adhering to any of you know, there's no we're making it happen, right?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think I mean it's it's a good fight.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good fight.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing I was gonna say though, that I do want to just mention because I'm like on a big kick and I I kind of spoke to you about this as well.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: But there is this idea of humans are one of the only like one of three mammals that go through menopause.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that evolutionarily speaking, the only reason for them to do that, right?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because otherwise we would die, like it doesn't make sense, right?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: It it must increase longevity, is because we have teaching to do, we have wisdom to share.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's like what they see in the whale populations and the elephants that also do this, right?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there's this idea of these elder women actually showing the way, they're leading the way.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's the second phase, like that's what I think we need more of is not, I mean, I want women founders at all ages, but I think there's also this erasure that happens when I actually think women need to be stepping into the leaders even more.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, it's like they become invisible, put out to pasture.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, no, no.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things this professor was talking about was like also women live longer.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: So evolutionarily speaking, it's like, no, no, no, they're the ones we're supposed to be learning from and are supposed to lead the pack, if you will, because that's what the biology is showing.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that as a metaphor or just like nature kind of teaching us back to ourselves.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what I that's where I think it goes is like let them step in instead of all these old white guys to lead the boards that are helping the new founders.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it could be men found founders that they're helping, but that's the role of the board is this wisdom, this guidance, this yeah, you know, experience.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's I just like that makes way more sense.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so well, I like that, you know.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: My husband and I talk about this a lot, especially with raising a son and a daughter, but this doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like, oh, we're trying to uplift women to the point where we are trying to take over your spot in line.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like by being in these spaces together, incredible things can happen and in support of each other, right?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's how do we create space for both, not like a I think and others would argue differently.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I I welcome that argument, which is no, actually, they've had their turn.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's our turn, move out the way.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's other people doing great work in that space.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not my, it's not my particular belief or approach.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's nuance and there's more to be found in the bringing together.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I recognize that that is not the way everybody views this, but I love the idea of what it means to be bringing wisdom forward.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually literally part of the inspiration for doing this series, is I was having a conversation with women where I'm like, holy shit, there is a huge amount of information and wisdom here when I was doing all of my kind of client conversations, and it felt just like it would be a totally ridiculous thing not to be able to share it more broadly.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I'm with you there.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm being super mindful of your time because I know you gotta go get your kiddo, but I have to end with my, and this is actually the perfect segue.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, as I was sharing with you, and I've shared with others this idea of, you know, we're building our legacies in real time.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: And legacy can feel like this big word that feels like it's you know, heavy post-death.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's really no, it's a it's an empowering thing to think about when we consider the intentionality that we're bringing to what we're building today.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I ask everybody, um, what does building a legacy mean to you?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that um I think the legacy, like I when you say it that way, I'm like, oh, it feels like something I'm like structure, I'm leaving behind.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like take it how we take it how you want.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, good.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna let that like go go, you know.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: That would be like something.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know, like my garden.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, take it how you want because I think everybody has had a very different approach to this question, which is why I love it.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what what it reminds me of more is what do I want to be remembered for?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the place that I always live from is I want the people that I encounter to feel like I saw them, that they were seen and also well loved.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: I just want the people in my life to be like, oh God, it was great being loved by her.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like that to me is like that's the best.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like spreading the love and reflecting back the light of who I see in everyone.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have been that human since I've known you.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm done.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can't let him out.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, you're good.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Nailed it.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nailed it.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: You don't do anything ever again.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I do find it, it's so I want to just say, I think it is incredibly, it is not actually easy to do.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that using that language around how you make others feel and seeing them and showing up with kindness and joy and love, that can feel sometimes like, well, sure, of course.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, no, that every day you have to actually choose that.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: You don't just walk into your day every day with like brightness and joy.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: We all are carrying shit, right?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so to literally intentionally make sure that that's how you're showing up in relationship with people, even though that is inherently who you are, there is still some choice to be made.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: You could choose other, you could choose like, you know what?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: Fuck it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna say, like, I'm taking my goodness and I'm gonna pour it over here.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is a really beautiful and valiant way to be thinking about what legacy means from just a how you want to be remembered and how you want to make other people feel, because that I actually believe is what's gonna change the world.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't say that lightly because it is everybody is craving to be seen, right?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like it's not selfless.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know, sure.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, well, that interaction was so much better because I came at it from a loving place.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: That means that I'm able to see how that shifts people's energy and that's there.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also because I really am like recovering again from toxic positivity.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's all joy either.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're right.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: When I am in this loving place, sometimes it's full of grief or like or even outrage, but it's still loving, it's still from a place of humanity that I can be outraged and I can hold the boundary and I can do that in a loving way.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a even more expansiveness to being loving and reflecting back someone's humanity that isn't necessarily like being in a good mood all the time.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, no, I hope that's not how I made it sound.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: I certainly don't mean that.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm with you.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there is the goodness that comes from being so in touch with yourself and where you're at and being grounded in that and centered in that authenticity is love.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I really believe that.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that is actually when we're showing up for ourselves in that way, it allows us to be in a relationship with people in a very different way.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I've noticed dramatically over the last few years in my life, even in how I parent.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I feel connected to myself, then the way I show up as a parent, as a spouse, as a friend is wildly different than when I'm like vibrating at a level that does not actually suit where I'm at.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm with you and I love it.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And joy can be part of it, certainly, but it's not all of it always.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, let bring in the joy.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever is bringing joy and delight, I am here for like all of it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, I totally agree.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: And just one last thing I'll say that you've reminded me of is I think that's also part of this self-care optimization thing that happens that actually removes us from that.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: And a shift that I have had in the last just a couple years that has made such a difference for me is seeing self-care as to your to your point, the thing that then helps me be able to show up.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not separate from the outpouring of love and community and connection.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that is the drive that we're going on.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: But the self-care is like putting gas in the car, right?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: It isn't the end all because the end all then it separates and becomes this whole thing, but instead it helps you show up in that way.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: So just as you were saying that, I'm like, yeah, like we need to feed ourselves so that we can show up and do the work we're here to do.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're amazing.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for helping me.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: This was so fun.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we should have had our little, you know, lattes and like a pumpkin in the back or something just to like really bring the fall.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's where we are.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's where well, maybe round two at some point because you are bringing up so many compelling things, and I feel like we have to talk about all my favorite things.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, what?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Did I just get to talk about every one of them?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: All right, my friend.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you soon.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to beldenstrategies.com slash newsletter.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.