Latest / Pelvic PT Rising / Mentorship (Part 1): 10 Myths of Mentorship

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Mentorship (Part 1): 10 Myths of Mentorship · Pelvic PT Rising

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: In the last 10 years, our field has gone from an unknown specialty to a household name.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This brings unprecedented opportunities, but we need to rise up to meet them and give our patients the care that they deserve.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: In order to help others get better, we need to be better.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: This podcast will help you to become more confident with your patients, more successful in your practice or business, and a leader in pelvic health.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to have some fun along the way.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Join us as we rise together.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We're Jesse and Nicole Cozine, founders of Pelvic Sanity Physical Therapy and the creators of the Pelvic PT Huddle, and this is Pelvic PT Rising.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Pelvic PT Rising podcast with Jesse and Nicole Cozine.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Hey, nicole, hello, all right, we are talking about mentorship.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: We're actually going to do a little four-part series on this, nicole, because I know it's something that you feel like.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: It's another buzzword that everybody says but nobody really knows what it means.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: And so today we're going to go through 10 misconceptions about mentorship to hopefully debug some of those myths.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: But a couple of announcements before we do one.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: You guys are interested in Pelvicon.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: There is a highlight reel from Pelvicon 2023 that is now up on the website, so make sure you check that out.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: It's at Pelviconcom.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: You can also get on the waitlist for Pelvicon 2024.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: The dates are on there, the waitlist is on there and everything comes out on Black Friday, so that's when tickets will actually go on sale.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: You will get first priority if you are on the waitlist and you may not get a chance to get tickets if you are not.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: So if that's something that is on your mind, make sure you go to Pelviconcom, get those.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Another really exciting thing to call and this is kind of a funny story about how this came to be but we are going to be creating a provider map that is not hidden behind a paywall, that is not only for people who are part of a certain group, but that actually serves everybody.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: And we had something like this in the PelvicPT huddle.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: And then disaster struck.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: And then I don't even know what happened, but I just put it up as like a Google map and everybody was putting their stuff up and then, all of a sudden, I got bombarded with a ton of messages about how it doesn't work and they can't find their person, their you know entry anymore and I was just like whoa, I don't even know what's going on.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I think somebody accidentally deleted a lot of information.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I think someone accidentally deleted it yeah.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Open source, which is, I mean, not blaming anybody Like.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that was absolutely not an intentional thing to do, but I think a lot of stuff got deleted.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I went back to the drawing board, revamped it.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: It's now going to be we actually hired an admin to administer it.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: So it's not open source anymore, so you can't change anybody else's stuff.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: But we're really excited about it.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I think this field needs a one stop shop for patients to look for stuff, for practitioners to find people in other cities.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: This is one of the reasons that we don't let the huddle turn into just a series of does anybody know anybody in Westchester?
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: posts.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's actually how the map got started in the first place was.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I was super annoyed with all of the does anyone know a PTA?
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: And it's like just looking up on Google.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: But I can see the lore to being able to put a one stop shop, like Jesse said, in front of there, and it also is one of my pet peeves that a lot of these things are oh well, the APTA one is there, but only if you're an APTA member, and all of that kind of nonsense.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So we're just going to do it and it's going to be free to everybody and you need to put your stuff on there and we're going to monitor it and we're going to make sure that it's accurate.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: We have somebody on our admin team that's going to be dedicated to making sure that that is up to date, so really excited about that.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Then everybody in the hotel can just be on there, plus more.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And you'll be able to find people for your folks, and that's a great place that you can refer people to when you're getting a DM from somebody who's like do you know somebody in blank?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Like, actually there's a fantastic map that is run by our friends at public pterising.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: You can find it at public pterisingcom slash map so you can actually go there now put your information in.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: If you are a business owner, there's actually going to be a separate listing for you guys.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: You'll fill out the same form.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: But if you are a cash based practice, we're also going to have a way to search for you as well, which also gets you some good SEO.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: But one of the other things we've been thinking about if we really believe that cash based practices are really the future of where a lot of it's going to be pushing things forward in the field, people need to be able to find that.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Patients need to be able to find that so they can find insurance based practices by going to their insurance company and looking at the insurance website.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: There's not a similar directory of cash based or out of network places until now.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: So if that is, you doubly make sure you go ahead and get on there.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: But again, that's public pterisingcom slash map.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Because we are inputting all of those manually, it will take some time for your stuff to come up.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: So please do not email me seven minutes after you put your stuff in and be like I've refreshed it three times.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I can't find my name on there.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: It will take a couple of weeks for our admin to go through to verify and to get stuff up, but that's that.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: We're really excited about it, super excited about that.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: This has been a long time coming and I think all that stuff got deleted at some point.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I think it happened like when we did just had clay or there was something with like postpartum, maybe even early pregnancy.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what happened, but it was just like third trimester.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: We're just like you know what.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Sorry, guys.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're like that is just not going to hit on the top of the priority list, but it is now and we are really proud about it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So there you go.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Perfect.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Let's dive in and talk about mentorship.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: And, nicole, I know this is something whenever we have a buzzword in the field, you always want to kind of step back and actually define it.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: So we're not talking past each other and this is actually a really good lesson for us we had early on.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Our mentorship program has changed at Public Sanity a ton, in part because we realized that we weren't talking past each other on these things.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: There was a little bit of a honestly a very humbling experience for me as an employer Early on in Public Sanity.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: The growth was pretty crazy.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, we grew from just me to five clinicians full time in less than three years and for those of you who are business owners, that's just like out of control growth and there were a lot of things that we were really proud of.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: But it was a wild time, and one of the things that I've always wanted at Public Sanity was a really robust mentorship program, and early in Public Sanity's life cycle I would say that we had a mentorship program, and it was a couple of years in when I had gotten some feedback from some employees and they were like we don't have a mentorship program here.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, we absolutely do.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: What the fuck are you talking about?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't say it like that, of course.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I was like oh, interesting, interesting.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I'm actually really confused.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: What the heck do you mean?
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: And I realized that we had a completely different view of what mentorship was.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: What I thought I was providing was not what they thought mentorship was, and so that was one of the first iterations and revamps of the mentorship program at Public Sanity and since then it has gone through many iterations to a point where I'm very proud of it now and it is structured and everybody that works here gets the same thing.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: But what we really need to talk about is what mentorship means, and there are quite a few misconceptions around that word and it's, quite frankly, pretty annoying and so, because we get to do the podcast and you get to listen to us and we just get to, like, say all the things about the misconceptions that we feel like are very important, yeah.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: So defining mentorship, I think it's a broad term and it's really a commitment to professional development and there's a lot that falls into that.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: This is why this is actually going to be a four part series.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: We want to get the misconceptions out of the way first.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: But it's a commitment to professional development and that can mean several different things and we're going to talk about some of those misconceptions.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: But you know when we do, because we put out a survey at the end of every year we're so grateful for those of you guys who respond to it Because it gives us an idea of what the entire field is doing and being and going through.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Last time we put that out, 80% of you 80% said that you had no consistent one-on-one mentor or mentorship.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: 80% and maybe it's because you're alone at your facility.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: About 50% of people in the Pelvicon said that they were the sole pelvic provider at their facility.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Many hadn't even ever interacted in person with another pelvic rehab provider, which is why Pelvicon is so rad.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: But maybe you're alone at your facility, maybe you've been asked to start a program when you're the only person there, or you don't have anybody else around, or it is available at your facility and it's just not a priority and, frankly, we've had three or four people come to Pelvic Sanity for work because they were promised mentorship somewhere else and then it just wasn't a priority.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: At that facility Something would come up or a patient would need to be seen and they would just put them in on a mentorship spot and they realized pretty quickly that that might not be the number one priority for their employer.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people have felt like it's a big bait and switch, like you say you have the program and then you do it for a couple of weeks and then as soon as something else has more priority for the employer, then it's like, oh, we'll just do that later, and then it gets pushed down and down on the priority list.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Just frustrating.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: It's objectively very frustrating, I'm sure, as the person Absolutely so.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: let's go ahead, Nicole, and dive through these misconceptions.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: The first one you had on the list was that mentorship is only for new grads.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something that is, I think, just inherent in what we sort of think about when we think about the word mentorship that there must be somebody that is imparting all of their wisdom down on somebody that doesn't know a lot yet, and in that way, you might think that only somebody that can benefit from mentorship is somebody that has less than three years of experience, or some arbitrary amount, or just a new grad.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Therefore, a mentor can only be somebody that is older or has more experience, and so that is.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: It's not just only for new grads that anybody at our clinic and anybody can benefit from a mentorship program.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: There doesn't have to be somebody that is imparting all this amazing wisdom down on somebody that doesn't really know anything.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: That's one of the biggest misconceptions about mentorship, and that's where we go back to the definition, which is it truly is a commitment to professional development wherever you are on that continuum.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: So if you're not committing to professional development, then what are we doing here really?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Right, you guys are listening to this podcast because you're committed to professional development.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: That doesn't stop.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: It's a lifelong learning process.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: We should be getting better, nicole and I, as business owners all the time.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: We should be getting better as a clinician all the time.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So it might shift and it might look a little more collaborative, or it might look different if you have a mentor in a mentee or even a team who are more similar in age or experience.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: So it might not feel the exact same, but it should still be happening.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it should still be called mentorship in that way.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: If you have a group of people that are committed to professionally developing and committed to challenging each other to be better, that literally is what mentorship is, and so it is not only for new grads and that's not how it is at pelvic sanity and that's not how I feel like anybody should view mentorship at all.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: So the second myth or misconception about mentorship is falls right into that that someone who's less experienced can't mentor somebody who's more experienced, which might be the case for some of you guys who are business owners who might be hiring somebody who has more clinical experience than you do or a similar level, or that you happen to need a certain amount of clinical experience in order to mentor someone else.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: If you only have three years of experience, can you really mentor somebody?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Nicole, who is a new grad?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, you absolutely can Like it goes both of those ways.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: And the other place where I see it kind of a lot is in this if you're less experienced, like Jesse said, as a business owner, and you have somebody that has oh my gosh, they have an OCS and oh my gosh, this you can still mentor somebody.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I learn from my staff members because they went to school so much earlier excuse me, later than I did, so they learned grade five mobilizations.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't learn that in school.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: It's like, what are you getting taught now?
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: What's the different thought on the SI joint now?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Like, what are you learning?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: And so that is an area where, again, that mentorship can go two ways.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It's not just for new grads.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Somebody that is less experienced can certainly mentor someone who has more experience.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: And again, it's all about being both committed to that improving professional development and improving the way that you treat patients.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: And, however, each other can challenge you.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Like that, the experience level doesn't matter as long as you're both committed to challenging each other to be better.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: And that brings us very neatly Nicole, you're killing the segues today To our third misconception is that mentorship is a one-way street where it's kind of like you just said, Nicole, a mentor who's pouring out into a mentee, who's this empty vessel, this blank slate, this tabula rasa, who is just absorbing your wisdom.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: And in fact it really should become a two-way street, as you're mentoring and you have absorbed and learned a ton from our mentees as they've gone through programs here.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, both my employees and the people that we mentor at Public PT Rising.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Mentorship is a two-way street, and it's not something that should just be handed to you because you deserve it or anything like that too.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, just because I value mentorship that you need to provide this stuff for me.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: There's a two-way street, for there you are just as responsible for that part of it, for that learning, for that commitment to professional development as well, and so it's not a passive action.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: And so one of the things on that is to really be thinking about.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Sometimes even having someone else teach is a way for them to develop professionally.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: So a lot of times in our mentorship program, at public sanity, one of our mentees will do a deep dive into a topic and present it to the rest of the staff.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Right, that's part of being a two way street with that.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: That's doing your own research, that's figuring it out and that's learning how to teach to present.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: I think another one that was really great that we did a while ago.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Nicole was just going around and listening to everybody on the team what their different metaphors and analogies work Like.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: That's a great way to learn.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: People sometimes say things to just stick or really work.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Sometimes that language is really fantastic.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: So it's not just a one way street and especially if you've got somebody that you're mentoring who is more experienced or more experienced in a certain area, it's a great way to make that go both ways and for both of you to be having professional development as you do it.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: So the fourth thing that we want to say is that mentorship is not passive.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: It's not something where you just sit back.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: It's not something that's necessarily actually, if we agree with this, nicole, is it owed to you?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Are you old mentorship?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, I mean no, you're not just owed that like.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: No, you have to.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Just because you exist does not mean that you deserve to get mentored by somebody.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, but it is that important that you should be going out and looking for it.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Like that's the active part of it is a you need to be looking for a place that does it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: It's not just that, wherever you go should just Feel the need to pour all this information into you, and once you are being mentored, you have responsibilities as well.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Like that's why, at public sanity, we have stuff that is laid out, that we take control of, stuff that our mentees take control of, and ways for them to participate, because, honestly, it's not just like sitting back in a lecture and crossing your arms and staring at the teacher and waiting for them to entertain you.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and this is also where I don't believe we didn't even talk about this before, but I don't believe that every single public health job should provide mentorship.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: That's a little bit as an aside to like are you owed it?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: No, like if you don't want, if you're an employee, you don't want to provide mentorship, you shouldn't provide mentorship.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And then just don't say that you're going to provide mentorship and not do it, but be like, yeah, come in here and figure your shit out.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right then.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: If that's a thing, then cool, we're speaking, we're being direct communicators then.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: But I feel like one of the biggest peps of mine is someone that says they do mentorship and really doesn't, and really doesn't really even have the desire to me.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: We were doing that at public sanity.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: It was just literally a communication Difference and we needed to figure that out.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: That was a communication problem.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: The intention was always good and there, so that can also be.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: The intention can be good and not be actually happening yeah, you're really rolling on the segway, because that was the next one of my list because they be misconception that your employer cares.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: The employer actually gives a shit and, to be fair, for a lot of employers and really particularly people run insurance based practices there is no incentive for them to block time for your mentorship.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Right, if they've got a steady stream of patients coming through the door.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I think about you, nicole, when you are working at the big hospital program.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: There were more patients than anyone knew what to do with.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Nobody really cared.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: If you are getting your patient through a full plan of care, frankly, financially, no one really cared.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: If your patients got any better, yeah, no, there's no incentive.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: So, from the business the strictly business perspective and this gets more business like the bigger the institution or if you're not in a public health specialty practice, you're in a big or throw practice and they're just feeding patients through there's really no incentive for your employer to care, to block off time, to pay you for this when you could be Seeing patients making the money.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you know what?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: If you flare up a patient because you haven't been really well trained and they drop off, they don't give a shit because there's four more people waiting to take their place.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is where we also see this misconception kind of a lot is that A lot of times, people use this as a recruitment tool.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: So, for instance, if you're in an ortho based practice and they're looking to add public health To their services, they can use it as a recruitment tactic, to be like I really care about mentorship here, what you can get, all these continuing education courses and do all this stuff and we really work on that mentorship aspect and at the end of the day, they actually don't really care about the public health program.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: They don't really care about your professional development as a public health practitioner and that is can certainly be part of that thing.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: It can seem like they care at the beginning and then they actually don't care.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So that's a big misconception is you can't assume that your employer cares about your professional development and that mentorship aspect.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Some of them, a lot of them, do a ton and some of them just straight up, don't.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Right and there isn't a financial incentive many times for them to really care.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: So another misconception that I think everybody has in different ways here there's no one right frequency for mentorship and I think sometimes this works both ways, where An employer has an idea of what they think mentorship is and then a student comes in is like you know what I should get four hours a week of hey time where I'm just gonna sit down with you as the owner of your brain and we're gonna go through all of my people every single week.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: You're like whoa, that's a lot so, yeah, I think that this is just a challenging misconception where, if you like the frequency, everyone has this ideal in their head about what somebody should do and like what the frequency should be for this optimal thing.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And we are gonna explore this in our mentorship series, because I think, instead of looking at frequency, we should look at the components of it as standalone components for a full mentorship program, and that frequency is basically just a huge sticking point for communication problem, to be honest.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that frequency really is difficult sometimes and that's where, too, in our series, we're going to go over from an employer perspective, from an employee perspective.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: That's where the frequency part can really have a lot of friction to that.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Right, because theoretically you could think about this as a new grad.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Right tries to do right.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: They ask the question of their employer do you have a mentorship program?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: And they say yes.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: And a new grad is like awesome, I'm so excited about mentorship.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: And they're like great, we have a mentorship program, cool.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: And then their mentorship program is providing you $1,000 of con ed so you can go learn places.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And you were expecting once a week getting to sit down with a true mentor in the area, and now we're.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: So it's just a matter of communication, but there's no one right frequency.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: We'll talk a little bit next time about the aspects of this and why it's really important.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: This one's kind of an aside, nicole, but case conferences are kind of dumb.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not really an aside.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people think that mentorship needs to include some form of case conferencing.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I mean case conferences, case studies like presenting a case study is actually really difficult to make a good learning opportunity.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: It's really hard because, if you think about it, the person that is bringing the case is basically has to be in such a good place mentally to be able to take what everyone else's judgments on what they should be doing with their patient.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: And so the reality is is like not everybody is secure in themselves enough to make case conferences go really well, because what inevitably ends up happening and this is human nature is that you bring a case to a group of people and everyone starts to talk about what you should do, and some of the things are really basic, and so you start, yeah, butting all over yourself.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: It's well, yeah, I've done that.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, have you tried to look at their hip?
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: And it's like, first of all, what does that even mean?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Look at their hip, is there hip involved?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And the person goes, yeah, I looked at their hip and it's like, right, but what did you do?
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: And it's like just this communication nonsense where you're talking past each other all the time, where the person that is presenting the case like, hey, I'm having trouble with this patient in this massive cognitive dissonance problem, because everything that somebody says to them it almost has to be like well, I tried that and it didn't work for it to even be a conversation.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And so it's like no one is actually learning anything during these freaking case conferences and they're just really difficult.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Right, so find another way to do mentorship.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that coming up, but the idea of like, oh, you just bring a case, or somebody can bring a case, just so they can brag about finding something cool.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, totally.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: That's more, even more annoying.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, let me do this case conference on this super rare anomaly situation that happened and it's like right and that also won't happen in most of your other patients.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: So I actually don't care about your anomaly situation, that I will literally have one in a thousand patients.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: And then you got.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Everybody else on your team is now looking for that anomaly for the rest of the thing that doesn't happen Like are you kidding.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: So mentorship should not include case conferences as a huge cornerstone to the program.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: We need to do a thing on.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: If you're going to I don't even know, maybe we just throw it out, but if you're going to do a case conference, here's all the information that you need to provide.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And to give enough information for someone to actually be able to review your thing would take more than the hour you have allotted to the conference.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: The thing is is maybe AI could do something like this, because the way that case conferences would actually be helpful is if it was truly like a choose your own adventure type situation, where it's like you do this and then this happens.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, was that a good outcome or bad outcome?
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean it like is all of this algorithm needs to like?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that's more of a training thing.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: It's not going in and saying I'm having a hard time with this patient.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It would be like a almost creative it's just more annoying because it's every then.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: everybody just tries to sound smart.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, have you done this?
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it's just like you know what.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: You're just trying to act smart now, like I'm so annoyed at them all.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So don't do that, guys.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: So don't do that.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: So number eight on our misconceptions, as we kind of round to the finish here, you never have to do anything on your own if you have a mentorship or if you're in a mentorship program, you never have to look anything up.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: You never have to go back to the anatomy book.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this kind of goes back to like it's passive and that it's something's owed to you.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: No, you're going to have to do some kind of internship a lot of the times and be as dedicated as the group or the person that is mentoring you at your own professional development.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: You will have to do stuff on your own.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: You may have to do something, have it forbid outside of your paid time for the mentorship to be optimal.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: That's it, yeah, and that goes towards spending a little bit of time thinking through your stuff and asking better questions too, not just help, right.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we get questions that literally are just like this patient is difficult Help, right, as opposed to thinking through.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: What is it that's difficult about this?
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: What is my actual question?
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Can I do a little bit of research on my own and come up with a question like I don't know, is vaginal estrogen appropriate for this patient?
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I think so because of this, but this would be my hesitation.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: That's a good question and that'll produce some really good conversation.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: That might produce some case examples, let's say, of somebody that had a similar situation, that where it went positively, a case situation where it went negatively, but that's a good example.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I really like that.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Jess to ask better questions, but sometimes you might need to do a little bit of research and a little bit of preparation to make sure that the mentorship aspect, once you bring it to your mentorship group or to whatever structure you have, that it produces a good quality conversation.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: That is what I believe that you're responsible to do.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Perfect, so you do have to do some things on your own.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: When it comes to the mentorship, number nine here is this is a misconception on both sides.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I think From an employee perspective, you should get paid for every second of everything that you're ever doing for your own professional development.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And that infuriates people who have been in the field or had to do all of this for themselves was when they hear that attitude.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: To be honest with you, right is, most people who did not have mentorship did all of this for themselves.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: They were looking at anatomy books after hours, they were paying for their own con ed, they were going to stuff on the weekends, and so it should shift.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: But the idea of every single thing, like if your boss is willing to stay late and talk to you and spend their own time, that's not the time to be like.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: That was 10 minutes, so like what's the pay scale for that?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: The pay scale for that is shut the fuck up and go home.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: The pay scale for that is, you will not be getting paid for that at all.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Goodbye.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Find someplace else but actually not because you asked, but because your attitude is that right, that's that like entitled attitude, like it's up to you, right, which is so I'm not into it.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So you shouldn't get paid for every second.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, you shouldn't not be paid at all.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Totally Right and we've seen this from a lot of people who was like, oh, we have a mentorship program, but you have to go and, like, meet with somebody outside of of ours and you have to do all of this stuff on your own, or you have to all of that stuff.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: So you can see it from both perspectives is as an employee.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't be something where you're nickel and diming like.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: This is your personal professional development.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: This is going to be something that benefits you for the entire rest of your career.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Act like that, but also don't allow an employer to take advantage of you and not do anything where it's all unpaid or they're asking you to do exorbitant stuff in order to learn.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: There needs to be a balance there, I think 100% and we're going to dive into much more about that.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And what are the responsibilities from the employee and the employer and the rest of our series here?
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: That's going to be the crux of it, because I do think it's actually interesting being on both ends of it now.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I can see both sides and I think it's important for us to be talking about this kind of stuff, because I feel like this is the kind of stuff that creates friction at a workplace, causes people to leave jobs, causes people to have all kinds of just contentious sort of relationships, when there's a big difference in the way that we think about stuff.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So we're going to try to bring that to light and find a good compromise in there.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: So that's number nine and number 10.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And we're also going to go into this a ton next week, so make sure you tune in on this.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Mentorship is only about clinical skills, and this was the heart of the miscommunication that we had with our employees early on was they felt that mentorship was only learning another hit mode, only learning another fashion technique.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really interesting.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: It's not, and we're going to be diving into the components of a mentorship program and what that actually means.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: What does full blown professional development mean at your workplace?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: But mentorship is not just about clinical skills, and I will tell you that the more I'm in this field, the actual less emphasis there is actually on any one intervention.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: But all y'all want all of the tools and like can you tell me about this one type of technique that you use and like, show me this visceral mode and do I need to know more?
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Vegas nerve techniques and stuff like that?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: And it's like those are important.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: It is an aspect of mentorship.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: However, it's not only about clinical skills.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: There are so many other things that can help you to treat patients.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Treat patients well, do well at your job, all of the things.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: And so that is one of the biggest misconceptions we save the best for last that mentorship is not only about clinical skills, clinical applications.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: How do you kinesio tape for a diastasis recti situation?
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: That's not all that it's about.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: So tune in next week this is a good cliffhanger here Tune in next week to find out what the other aspects of clinical mentorship are.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: But that's it.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: That's what we're going to be talking about.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: That's why this is a four part series.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: So I hope this has been helpful for you guys and just evaluate if you are in a program where you're receiving mentorship.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Are there some of these misconceptions, miscommunications, myths of that, and those can be really frustrating.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Those can get in the way of your professional development, which, after all, is the whole goal of mentorship.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: So if you guys have stories about this or frustrations we love hearing those.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Please reach out.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Send Nicole an email, nicole at publicsandycom, or a DM.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: We always want to hear from you.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: We always want to keep this conversation going and let's continue to ride.