Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Roast! - Marc Wortman, Make Good Coffee Company

Transcript

Roast! - Marc Wortman, Make Good Coffee Company · Coffee People Podcast

0:17
Good morning. Welcome back to the roast West
0:19
Coast coffee podcast. I'm your host Ryan Walton.
0:22
Today we're going to meet a former website gambling
0:24
entrepreneur. Turned coffee blogger, turned
0:27
coffee roaster, Marc Wortman founded.
0:29
Make good. Coffee company in San Diego.
0:32
Originally as a wholesale business.
0:34
And during the pandemic opened their first retail location,
0:37
mark is a good salesman and a pretty good Storyteller.
0:40
And I'm glad I'm able to share the make good coffee company
0:43
story with you while you're listening today.
0:45
Take a moment to follow at, make good coffee on Instagram or
0:49
head, to make good coffee.com to check out marks.
0:52
Make good coffee blog. And don't forget to fill your
0:55
coffee mug with some good coffee, because here's the show.
1:05
Mark, welcome to the show to the roast West Coast podcast.
1:29
Could you do me a favor and just say your name and and what your
1:34
role is and what your company? He is, so I've got it on the, on
1:36
the record here. You've got it.
1:38
Ryan, my name is Marc Wortman. I am the one of the owners and
1:44
the head roaster of the make good coffee company in San
1:48
Diego. California.
1:50
And I want to get this just on the record before we go too far.
1:53
Which is you before you had the Roasterie, you were a coffee
1:58
blogger. Let's write the blog was called
2:02
make good coffee.com, it still exists.
2:05
It's been around since 2006. I at one point considered myself
2:10
a blogger and I'm learning that podcaster is the new blogger.
2:14
That's kind of the that's what I've learned.
2:16
So I want to get started with just you forget about all the
2:20
stuff you're doing now, but what about you and your coffee
2:24
experience? Was there something that
2:25
happened or a first experience that made you think?
2:28
Yeah, this is interesting. This is I want to explore more
2:31
that inspired you to start that coffee blog in the first place.
2:36
Yeah, I wouldn't say that there was any one thing in particular,
2:41
so much as I've just had coffee in the smell of coffee around
2:47
me. My entire life, my parents were
2:49
Avid coffee drinkers. It was always in the house.
2:54
It was always around. It wasn't something that I drank
2:58
as a kid. So it had that Mystique to it.
3:01
That one day, I'd have a cut myself.
3:04
I developed a taste for For it as a teenager.
3:09
And after that I'd say it was really my brother who upgraded
3:16
my interest in it he gave me his first drip Brewer to take a
3:21
college and that was a fixture in my my nightstand.
3:26
And he was the first person to show me a French press.
3:30
I didn't even know what I was looking at.
3:32
But it was definitely the beginning of me.
3:36
Seen just how much complexity there was the coffee and then
3:39
that's something that's been a theme for me with coffee.
3:43
Is that the more you learn, the more you realize, you have to
3:46
learn Yeah it's a it's a weird. It's almost I don't want to say
3:52
ignorance and splits because it's the opposite of that.
3:54
There's Bliss in the learning but there's also this, once you
3:56
open that door, it's hard to turn back.
3:59
You know, it's like it's like starting to drink craft beer.
4:01
It's hard to go back to drinking Old Milwaukee all the time.
4:04
Actually, I don't know if they have Old Milwaukee out here.
4:06
I remember. Yeah, I know that I had it when
4:09
I was younger. So then at some point, you start
4:11
the coffee blog. Why start the blog?
4:14
And then how did going into that reviewing coffee?
4:17
Learning about coffee. How did it impact your
4:19
relationship with coffee in the first place?
4:22
It's a it's a strange story. It's going to sound at First
4:26
Look it doesn't have anything to do with coffee but bear with me
4:29
by the end, it does come back around to the coffee blog.
4:33
Prior to 2006 for just under 10 years.
4:39
I ran a website in the online poker space and this was a point
4:46
in time, when not, all the rules, had been written around
4:49
online gambling, but people were having more Confidence in giving
4:53
the credit card information online.
4:55
So there's a real proliferation of Poker play and I started a
5:00
website that was meant to be for people to contribute their
5:08
content. You know, I would go on and I'd
5:09
say this is what I love about the game and this is what I
5:12
really enjoy about it, but I would invite other people to
5:14
write and I realized that you could get people contributing
5:19
content, I didn't have to do all of the writing myself.
5:23
And it really grew in popularity for a couple of years.
5:26
If you went to Google and do a search on just poker, it was the
5:30
number one website. It grew so much in popularity,
5:34
that it really started to become a business, which wasn't
5:37
something that I intended it first.
5:40
And the next thing that happened was they started writing those
5:43
laws around online gambling, and the things that we were doing to
5:48
make money. We're just blocked with with
5:51
legislation. So, What does any of this have
5:54
to do with coffee? I had learned so much about
5:57
internet marketing and I learned so much about finding a
6:01
community or helping a community, find a place where
6:04
they could read. What I had to say and contribute
6:08
content of their own. And I thought, what's the other
6:10
thing in the world that I love that probably won't become
6:14
illegal for me to, to get involved in?
6:17
And it was simpler. It was coffee.
6:20
I thought, you know, I'd love to take everything I learned from
6:23
that other experience and apply it to this other passion that I
6:29
have. And that's how I make good
6:31
coffee.com was born. You could get concise
6:34
unhyphenated domain names, like that back then without paying
6:37
someone a thousand dollars for it.
6:39
And the idea with make good coffee was here is all the
6:43
Coffee Gear I have in my kitchen.
6:45
Here's what I'm drinking right now and encouraging other people
6:49
to provide that same information.
6:51
I told people Just different tips.
6:54
I had for how to make the best cup of coffee at home.
6:57
Then eventually got into home roasting and that to me was just
7:01
fascinating. I kindly we were saying earlier,
7:03
you, learn one thing new and you realize just how much more there
7:08
is and home. Roasting became just, it's own
7:11
animal for me, in terms of getting into it teaching other
7:15
people about it. And then, finally, I had a job
7:18
in sales where I was traveling a lot.
7:21
So, wherever I went I would set up an interview with a local
7:24
roaster and post those interviews on the blog.
7:27
And so that's really how make good coffee which yeah it's
7:31
really how it took on a life of its own.
7:33
So at you're going through, you're doing interviews, you
7:37
have the blog going. What was the Tipping Point that
7:39
made you think I need to start roasting for myself?
7:44
That's interesting home, roasting definitely got me
7:49
interested. The more I learned about home
7:52
roasting and the better I felt I was getting that it the more
7:56
eager I became to make more than a quarter pound at a time.
8:00
And I would say, one of the really big tipping It's for me
8:04
was the city. I was living in at the time, I
8:07
set up an interview with the largest local roaster in that
8:11
area and he's someone who ended up becoming a real mentor to me.
8:16
His name was Dave Cook and he had started a company called the
8:19
fire roasted coffee company and what turned was started as an
8:23
interview with him, turned into me, just starting to hang out at
8:28
his shop, a lot and really learning a lot about roasting.
8:33
As a craft. That to me was a definitely a
8:37
big turning point and then I moved from that City to Portland
8:41
Oregon and I thought I want to be a coffee roaster but I don't
8:45
think it's going to happen in this city because there's a
8:48
roaster on almost every block in Portland.
8:50
I couldn't think of what I would bring to the table.
8:53
That would be unique and I almost got in chocolate for that
8:56
reason because I thought well there's the I don't think
8:58
there's anything for me here in coffee.
9:00
That's already such great coffee from Roasters who are already
9:03
there. And then I changed.
9:05
I moved to San Diego about eight years ago and I think you were
9:09
in the area at the time. You might remember that there
9:12
was definitely some good Roasters here but nowhere near
9:17
the number of Roasters that there are now I felt like eight
9:20
years ago you could tell San Diego was really on the cusp of
9:23
becoming a great coffee City. And sure enough my guess is that
9:28
there are as many as 10 times the number of Roasters now, is
9:32
there were eight years ago, but eight years ago Oh, is really
9:35
what? I made a decision to get into
9:37
coffee roasting and six years ago is when I opened the
9:42
Roasterie as a wholesale business.
9:46
Was there a point at the beginning where you thought, you
9:48
know, I've been running this blog and I've been writing
9:51
reviews and interviewing other people was there any fear that
9:54
getting into it? Transitioning into that side,
9:56
that people look at you and be like, oh, he's a coffee blogger
9:59
or vice. Did you not have that
10:01
experience? No, I absolutely did.
10:03
I had a real inferiority complex and I'd say, the main reason for
10:08
it, is that a common theme? I found among the roasters I
10:12
interviewed. Was that a lot of them came?
10:15
From a food background, whether they worked how to roll say in a
10:21
restaurant or came up through working in coffee shops, or
10:26
perhaps maybe a food product manager.
10:29
And I found that coffee roasters had a so much more of a
10:34
sophisticated sense of taste than I did.
10:37
It would come out and couplings that I did with them, where I
10:40
just felt out of my league. You know, I couplings for
10:44
anyone, you start. Off just by deciding whether or
10:47
not you like the coffee or not. But it was a big step for me to,
10:51
for instance, to describe a coffee as being nutty.
10:54
But have The Roaster beside me, compare it to a specific nut
10:58
that grows in a country for a few months a year.
11:00
I'm like, come on man. I'll never get to that level.
11:03
So I had a real inferiority complex about it.
11:07
I felt like I if I spent the rest of my life on it, I'll
11:10
never have a sophisticated, a sense of taste as these other
11:13
Roasters do, but it's like anything.
11:15
If you just study and learn as much as you can, and after a
11:21
while, you start to realize that you're more of an expert than
11:24
you thought. Confidence comes with
11:27
repetition. Absolutely.
11:28
And I think sometimes that inferiority complex can help
11:32
Propel you to a New Height because you are working harder
11:35
than maybe. The next person who doesn't have
11:37
that is already confident in what they do, you launched as a
11:41
wholesaler, you're offering your coffee to other businesses.
11:44
I actually believe that we met because you were pitching your
11:47
coffee for the restaurant. That I was running at the time.
11:51
What made you decide to open the store Front?
11:53
Well with. So the Roasterie has been open
11:56
for six and a half years. Now, the retail coffee shop next
12:03
to the Roasterie we opened a year and a half ago.
12:07
A lot of that has to do with my business partner Colleen
12:11
Colleen, moved to San Diego from Seattle.
12:16
And when she did, you know, I had this this wholesale Coffee,
12:21
roasting business. I had a full-time job and I let
12:26
her know. I, you know, it.
12:27
I wasn't ready to take the big leap to quitting my job and just
12:32
being in the coffee business full-time, without some help
12:36
from somebody. And I asked her if she would be
12:40
interested in becoming involved with this business, she has a
12:43
background as a barista. She is really a project manager
12:49
by nature and the Thing that I knew I was lacking, was that my
12:53
relationship with coffee. Has always been to go out.
12:57
Find great coffee and then bring it home and make it for myself
13:01
at home. I never really went out and took
13:04
coffee shops a lot. So I knew that I was an expert
13:11
in roasting. I enjoy doing sales to grow a
13:15
wholesale business, but that Colleen brought the other piece
13:19
of it that I didn't have that. Retail experience and do you
13:23
know somebody to do this with? So we both went off to our
13:28
separate homes, for the holidays and agreed.
13:30
When we came back, we talked about it and decide if we want
13:32
to go ahead with it. And we did that was in January
13:36
of 2019. I quit my job and of course,
13:40
nothing ever happens as quickly as you would like.
13:43
So it took a year over a year before the retail shop was
13:50
actually oh Opened. And I it's a it's the way you.
13:54
And I met Ryan is a great sale story.
13:57
I would love to tell it if you'll let me, yeah, please you
14:00
get with a with a wholesale business, you get a lot of your
14:03
customers through. Just Constant Contact who's the
14:09
right person to talk to, what can I put in front of this
14:12
person? That would be appealing to them
14:14
and then just being persistent. And then every now and then
14:18
there are accounts where there's, it's I fell in your lap
14:21
but it's almost a fluke calling and I were out doing sales, we
14:27
were in Pacific Beach and we parked the car somewhere.
14:31
We had list of places that we were going to cold call and you
14:35
are running a restaurant that was in between two of those
14:37
stops and we walked by that restaurant with no intention of
14:42
stopping in at the exact same time as you were walking out
14:46
with an A-frame, there was announcing that you guys were
14:49
just launched a week. And brunch and I think if this
14:52
was going to be your second week with it so we said hello, you
14:55
know, to be pleasant with each other and then we'd looked at
14:58
your sign and said, hey this this this is too good to be
15:03
true. You guys, have you guys thought
15:05
about coffee, do you have a vendor yet and you set up a
15:08
cupping between us and the two owners of the restaurant and the
15:11
rest is history. So, it's, it's interesting,
15:15
sometimes in sales, where, you know, you got to be out on the
15:18
street and just knocking on doors And then the way you and I
15:21
met it just seems like chance. I still have that business card.
15:25
I think you gave me that day somewhere.
15:27
You know the timeline that we're talking about here.
15:30
Also means that your storefront is mostly been opened during
15:33
covid. How has that impacted you guys
15:36
over the last year? Is that actually I've heard from
15:38
some Roasters that covid has been a benefit in some ways
15:40
because people are buying more beans for home and from the
15:44
business side, obviously not the personal side but I'm wondering
15:47
how it's impacted you because you have this wholesale business
15:49
that was established Act. And now you have the new
15:51
storefront, right? And not only that, but in the
15:54
wholesale business was running perfectly well, but it obviously
15:59
takes a big investment to get something like a retail
16:02
storefront open. So, you know, in some respects
16:06
we were all in. Open this shop on March 4th of
16:11
2021 and I'm sorry 2020 and exactly.
16:15
One week later is when they announced that we were in a
16:18
pandemic. One week after we opened our
16:22
doors. So all you can do is brainstorm.
16:28
How can we make the most of this that those comments you'd heard
16:31
from other Roasters? I agree with it completely.
16:34
We look to our grow. Sure.
16:37
Customers and thought, how can we how can we get more coffee on
16:43
their shows? If people are going to stay at
16:44
home, they're still going to stock up on groceries.
16:47
How do we get more coffee on the Shelf?
16:49
Where Found other Roasters were not delivering to grocery
16:54
stores. I likely for their own covid
16:57
protocol. We didn't hesitate to try to get
17:00
that shelf space and did in a lot of cases so that we started
17:05
expanding our presence from this.
17:07
We also put our advertising budget into convincing, people
17:13
near the Roasterie to come to the rosetree, to pick up coffee
17:17
to drink at home. A you got to stay at home, but
17:19
there's no reason to drink Like mediocre coffee.
17:21
This is your, here's a nice thing to have while you're
17:23
staying at home for we didn't know a new how long this is
17:26
gonna last. Another thing we did, that
17:30
wasn't planned at the beginning was we always thought we would
17:33
have cupping classes for novices in the shop coffee cup.
17:38
Pains tastings are very underappreciated.
17:42
I think a lot of people don't realize just how sophisticated a
17:46
coffee tasting is and and we've had fun putting On classes like
17:51
that, predominantly for people who've never done a coffee
17:53
cupping before. It's always a service we
17:56
provided for our wholesale customers like a coffee shop.
17:58
If they want to bring their customers in for a cupping and
18:01
we come in and the Shopkins, say, hey, look, we brought in
18:04
our roaster, he's also going to host this coming class.
18:08
And since we couldn't do that for covid, we came up with an
18:12
online cupping class, where we would send samples of coffee to
18:18
you at home and then, Then you zoom to conduct an online
18:22
company, that ended ended up being really beneficial for us
18:26
to it, even led to some corporate gigs.
18:28
We had as many as 30 people on One Call where the employer
18:33
wanted to provide their stay at home team with some kind of a
18:36
team-building exercise and went with a coffee cupping.
18:39
So it's interesting in those times of need, when you have no
18:45
choice, the kinds of new ideas, you come up with.
18:48
As far as I know, there had never Don't online cupping
18:51
before that. It certainly doesn't compare to
18:55
a live cupping but it's something instead of nothing.
18:59
And so other than that, it was really just making our presence
19:04
known where the shop is on Hancock Street, near Old Town
19:09
and encouraging, you know, anyone, you know, in the area to
19:12
come see us and some of those first people that did are still
19:17
among our regulars today. So, It was tough.
19:21
Those first few months were we're especially dark times to
19:24
think back on, but we got through it and came up with new
19:28
ideas along the way. Yeah, you adapted.
19:30
And you just mentioned Hancock Street, which for anyone
19:33
listening especially we have a lot of out-of-town visit
19:35
listeners. It's near the airport.
19:38
It's a perfect spot to stop on your way to and from the
19:40
airport. Yes, we'll pick up some coffee.
19:42
What is, so you've gone through this process, it's been years in
19:45
the making roasting now, the shop covid.
19:48
What is coming? For you guys.
19:50
What do you guys have planned for the future?
19:52
Is it just sustaining is their growth activity.
19:55
I mean, what is what is the idea behind the next day?
19:59
Six months a year. Five years, definitely getting a
20:04
bigger roaster. It obviously it's a measure of
20:07
how much coffee you're putting out.
20:09
There were just right on the cusp of needing a larger
20:13
roaster. Instead of spending the amount
20:15
of time that we are with with this current size roaster.
20:18
But As you know, because I know you worked in Pacific Beach.
20:24
Labor Day is almost The Unofficial end of summer and
20:28
summer is the busiest time of the year for our wholesale
20:33
business. And it's not that we can't
20:35
handle it, you know, we certainly can handle new
20:38
business, but summer, with so much wholesale business in PB,
20:43
it is just it's just day to day and it's exhausting and you Do a
20:50
lot of brainstorming. There's not a ton of creativity,
20:52
there's not a lot of just forward thinking you're really
20:56
just going in roasting, delivering taking calls.
21:02
And so with that behind us, we get to put our minds back to
21:07
some of the more creative fun things like just constant shop
21:12
improvements. Like I said, upgrading a
21:15
roaster. Yeah, just figuring out what
21:17
more we can do to be our neighborhood.
21:20
It's coffee shop and a wholesale roaster for businesses in San
21:24
Diego. Yeah, that end-of-summer Pacific
21:27
Beach Mission Bay Area is just, it's a Nutty place to be and for
21:32
anyone who's lived in a tourist area or visited one.
21:35
Imagine that being like, your everyday for about two months,
21:39
it's, it can be very intense. I certainly remember, some very
21:42
exhausted mornings and nights. I was just going to add Ryan as
21:46
a resident of PB. I hate the summer here.
21:50
And as a business owner with customers and PB, I love the
21:54
summer here. Yeah, I used to live there as
21:57
well and I wouldn't go to the beach sometimes from like June
22:01
until September 2nd 3rd week of September to me.
22:05
That's the best time of year October right now.
22:07
This is it what what is something that we didn't cover
22:12
today? That you want people to know
22:14
about make good? You know, the I know that your
22:18
listeners definitely have some coffee knowledge.
22:23
I can think back on my own kind of evolution as a coffee
22:26
drinker. And and the thing there was a
22:29
real turning point for me was realizing that, you know, the
22:31
freshest coffee and the most flavorful coffee, you can get is
22:35
from a coffee roaster, if your listeners, no matter where
22:39
they're located in the country, I definitely encourage them to
22:43
find their local roaster. You're not going to find fresher
22:47
coffee, you're probably going to see the actual Roasting
22:50
equipment, when you're in there, what could be fresher than that
22:54
short of the farm to get it? And if your listeners are in San
22:58
Diego, I definitely encourage them.
23:00
Come check us out on Hancock Street.
23:02
Near Old Town. Check out The Roaster.
23:05
Get more familiar with that and our seasonal menus are always a
23:09
lot of fun. These are not the kinds of
23:11
coffee drinks. I used to enjoy years ago, but
23:15
they're delicious. They're fun and we've always got
23:17
something new last question. When I asked everybody if you're
23:21
out and about, you're just getting a coffee for yourself.
23:24
What is it that you order when you walk into a new Coffee
23:26
Roastery? Black coffee, it is I mentioned
23:31
the other drinks being fun and they are, some of them are
23:34
absolutely delicious. But for me, I want to taste the
23:38
coffee. And if I want to taste, you
23:42
know, where that coffee came from, and the way that it was
23:45
handled from origin to roaster, particularly The Roaster to me,
23:51
there's no better way than a cup of black coffee.
23:53
That might be boring for some people to me.
23:55
It's anything. But it's always seems to be the
23:58
go-to answer for every roaster. Stop the people that I talk to
24:01
that actually roast, it's always black coffee and that's I think
24:05
it's just because exactly what you just said.
24:07
You want to find out how that other roaster handled that
24:11
coffee, right? And I think in your brain,
24:13
you're probably you're going backwards going okay, well it
24:16
tastes like this so I'm guessing he did this and I'm guessing it
24:19
came from Here, if you can never turn it off, I really appreciate
24:23
you spending some time with these.
24:24
With me this morning, and being on the show, I'm excited to try
24:29
some of your new coffees and, and congratulations on the new
24:33
storefront, and I'm excited to see what happens next.
24:35
Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate that.
24:37
And I like this podcast, I really like what you're doing,
24:40
and I like that. There's just an information
24:44
resource for people who want to learn more about coffee.
24:46
You've got some real experts on this show.
24:56
To recap today podcasting is hard.
24:58
Sometimes the audio doesn't work right?
25:00
Sometimes, the internet is Goofy, but luckily, I have
25:03
coffee to get me through it. A more interesting.
25:05
Take from today's interview with Mark is that he had a coffee
25:08
Mentor. Dave, Cook of the fire.
25:10
Roasted coffee company. In London, Ontario mentorship
25:13
and coffee is something that everyone seems to want, but not
25:17
every young roaster finds. That's why I'm so grateful.
25:19
Grateful for the guests on this show and the coffee experts like
25:23
Siri and Chris who try to pass. What they've learned on to the
25:26
rest of us. Finally, make good coffee
25:29
started as a Blog. I'll remind you that a Blog is
25:32
like an online journal from olden times, like the early
25:34
2000s and 2010's podcasters are essentially the bloggers of
25:38
today. The point is that make good
25:40
coffee.com, has a ton of content like directions on how to make
25:43
cold brew at home or how to properly clean your brewing
25:47
equipment. Speaking of coffee content, I
25:50
also have coffee vocab terms for you today.
25:52
The first is coffee Berry borer, the coffee Berry borer is an
25:57
African pest Beetle that burrows into coffee cherries and lays
26:01
eggs causing the cherries to rot early.
26:03
And result in major flavor defects.
26:06
The second is hard bean coffee grown at altitudes of four to
26:10
forty. Five hundred feet above sea
26:12
level. Produces slower, maturing coffee
26:15
cherry fruit, and a harder less porous being due to the lower
26:19
temperature. Jurors and higher altitude.
26:21
That is all for this episode of the roast West Coast coffee
26:24
podcast. Thanks to mark of make good
26:26
coffee company for remembering, that story of how we met and for
26:30
coming on the show today. I've got another coffee smarter
26:33
episode coming out on Thursday, but I'm not quite sure which
26:36
episode it will be. Yet, I had an episode about
26:38
climate change planned with Jay, russki of Fringe coffee, but we
26:41
had to reschedule after a wildfire near his farm created
26:45
evacuation, alerts in the area. I bring it up because here on
26:48
the West Coast Wildfire is a Reality that we are now living
26:51
with year-round instead of seasonally, I encourage you to
26:54
be Wildfire aware and prepared, especially this time of year
26:59
this week. I stopped to get coffee at
27:01
steady state coffee, zoom bar, coffee, and tea, and coffee
27:04
cycle. I even had a first light Whiskey
27:06
on the Rocks. Last night.
27:07
Those are just three of the great industry partners that
27:10
support this show. I also need to shout out Maria
27:13
coffee. Most your coffee leap Coffee
27:15
Cafe litter. I just interviewed Alden Hosiery
27:18
of Cafe lechera For an upcoming. Coming episode, Cape Horn
27:21
coffee, importers and Camp coffee company.
27:24
As always, thanks to you for listening.
27:25
And for sharing this show with your friends and for checking
27:29
out our roast industry, Partners, you can find the links
27:32
to all of those brands on roast westcoast.com, where you can
27:35
also subscribe to this newsletter and never miss an
27:38
episode. Don't forget to get your tickets
27:41
to the 2020 Coffee Roaster of the year, most your coffees,
27:44
most Rural and Halloween experience had to most your
27:47
coffee.com for details. This episode of the roast West
27:51
Coast coffee podcast is was and has been written produced and
27:55
recorded by meet Ryan Walt. I hope this show is found you
27:59
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity to make it through
28:02
the day. And please always tip your
28:05
Baristas and be sure to drink good coffee.