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Episode 173. Dead Man's Line (2018) · B&R at the Movies

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everybody, welcome back for another episode of BR at the Movies Podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I am Barry.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Robin.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this week it was your choice of films.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll let you go and take us away with this one.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And for some reason this week I knew it was going to be a documentary.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were going to watch a documentary.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Dead Man's Line.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was made in 2018.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: In 2025, they made the movie about this subject.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was called Dead Man's Wire, the movie is called.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I chose to really watch the real thing.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's one of these.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna the documentary.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to see the real thing.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the movie might be okay.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Might be okay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we we've run into that a couple times with with documentaries into films.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's either or.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but yeah, but I really wanted to see the documentary.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um because this is something that happened in 1977.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was 16 years old, and I do remember seeing this on the news.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what happens?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it is about a hostage situation.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it is crazy from beginning to end, the whole story.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking at it, you're going, there's no way this actually happened.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yes, it did.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's so wild, like you'd think like it's a movie, it would have to be a movie score.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I really wanted to see the documentary.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see real footage.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because uh, in the movie, you you'd be watching the movie going, yeah, right.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is like, no, this is really what happened.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy, crazy.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you'll you might recognize like some of the footage or a photograph that is from it, but it is a hostage situation that happened in Indianapolis.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it was all um it was all televised.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you're watching it and you're just shaking your head.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's gonna happen?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's what's going on?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: How can this how can people be filming this?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Really and this is happening.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this is this is really happening on the street.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: What what you know, and it's just it it is and then I I have no idea what the documentary.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking that since this was 2018, um, both of the main people, the two main people, the hostage taker and the hostage person have passed away.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't know if they waited that long.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: But this is I I really want to hear from the real people that were there.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see the footage again and just the craziness that went on.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And with this particular case, it really kind of changed things a little bit about um journalism.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um getting involved in the case.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So like like ethically, like kind of.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, and I'm assuming at the end they'll tell you everything that happened afterwards.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that made a difference too.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So in the in the whole in the world.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that but I remember I was 16 years old, and this is probably the first thing I ever saw on TV going, what?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is Walter Cronkite, and he's showing us this.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this crazy town.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I don't want to say too much.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I really want you to experience it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Go on.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're really cuckoo birds.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I have a feeling this I heard this documentary is put together really well too.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um, and obviously it's very factual.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's good.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna say, well, yeah, hopefully it's very factual being the being the being the documentary.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's so much footage.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yes.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is um it's it's really weird.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can definitely say I I I don't at least offhand, I don't know the case.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um good, good.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't because I I mentioned it to your sister, and she had no idea what I was talking about.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right, no clue.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it's 1977, long time ago.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's it's one of those where it's not like ancient long time ago, of least.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's in my lifetime.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this, but it but it's it's really, really interesting, and um just the whole story is just it's just a little crazy.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to I want to really see how they put this documentary together and and and what happens with that.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we are gonna go ahead and check it out.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna watch a documentary of Dead Man's Line, and then we will come back a little bit to talk about it.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right, we will be back in a little while.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everybody, welcome back.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: We just got what we just got done watching um the name just popped out of my head.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Dead man's line.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Dead man's line, yes.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Dead man's line.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and since this was your choice, yes, then I will take us away on talking about this one.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh it's it it was a very interesting story.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I definitely did not know about the story at all.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that was definitely uh uh interesting to find out.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um it uh kind of took a while uh trying to trying to get through it all.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like slow.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, a lot of as a documentary, it was it was a little slow.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and you know, they're talking about how this was like three days of this time, so I'm like, well, I guess they definitely made you feel like you're going through the three days of it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're feeling it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're feeling it, they're feeling it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um as far as the documentary itself goes, I'm I like that there was a lot of archival footage done.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I liked um most of the interviews done.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: There were some that uh stylistically were a little weird on the way on the angles they chose.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: But um for for as far as putting it all together, I felt like they did pretty good.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: They got a lot of good people to be able to talk about it that were that were actually there and had first hand accounts of what was going on, a lot of the a lot of the jury and stuff, so that was uh that was really good.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's it's just a lot of just facts of just like what was going on.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't know as far as like a whole the whole story goes, uh it's I it's weird because it's um the police are not in charge of anything during the whole time at all.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and they're just along for the ride.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now I understand that they're you know, he's got the shotgun with a wire around it and strapped to the back of the guy's neck, and they were talking about like, okay, if he if they pull the shotgun, they think he's gonna fire.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: If they shoot, if they shoot him, then they think it's gonna fire, you know, and all this stuff.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I understand all of that, but it just felt like there was no urgency to to uh to resolve it, yeah to do anything.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was just like they were they were bystanders.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like yeah, and they really really didn't know what they were doing, what they could do.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And here he is, he's just like you know, got the shotgun to his head, yeah, and walking around and and and standing there at the press conference talking crazy.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, even even before the whole even before they even left from the office building, and then they get down on the street and then they're walking around, and even then they're asking the cops, like, you know, what are his demands?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what do you want?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then and they're like, Oh, we really don't know.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, it's it's somebody takes somebody hostage, it's kind of like the first thing that you're gonna one of the first things you're gonna ask.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think he and would answer.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, it's almost like he didn't know what he wanted, right?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like clearly.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was like, oh, I want five million dollars and immunity that I won't be charged for this.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like and he believed him.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and wow.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then the trial part happens.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, all right, well, you know, it's we're we're a little interesting on that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then they find him not guilty by reasons of insanity.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then they weren't it so I'm assuming what they were saying was that if because he was found by reasons of insanity, then that he had to go under a court-ordered uh examination to be able to determine what his mental status would be, and he refused to do that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so then they held him for contempt for ten years.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Which was probably what he was gonna get anyway for the kidnapping.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of being held in jail, he was held in a mental institution.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Which, if he was found guilty by reasons of insanity, he'd be held in a mental institution.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: He'd be held in a mental institution anyway.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, I was so confused on like Yeah, okay, well, you found him guilty of, you know, you found him innocent, you know, by reasons of insanity, and then it's like, which even that term of like he's innocent by guilty by by reasons of insanity, it's like he's still not innocent.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, he's still guilty of the crime.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's not like he didn't do it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like they know he did it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: He was on TV doing it, you know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think that brings to light a little bit of what's happening in in the 70s as far as that, because um, yeah, because afterwards to be uh you know, say that they're insane at that moment, it is really hard to prove, especially and then especially now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like no.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they showed the stat that it's like 0.8% of all cases or something, um, even attempt it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, because it you just but this one just did it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and they took it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I you know, I didn't really think about it too, because um it looked like the trial um happened in Indianapolis somewhere.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So these are people that probably did have knowledge of what what had gone on.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: They'd seen it on television.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: They you know, so they weren't like they were kind of biased as far as you know, they had a lot, they had a lot of knowledge about it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's that's really not good as far as like uh um impartial jury, yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You just don't have that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh my god, that's so true.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and they even had the one jury, the one uh jury guy that he was saying that um oh he was talking about his his Tony's past.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he's like, Yeah, I can relate to that.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can relate to that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like that has nothing to do with it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that's not the case at all.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's like and it's like okay.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you you like you pity on him?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: It it's exactly what it felt like.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was like but I think I think it kind of came down to that that they this poor guy, you know, yeah, he had all this, he just he he couldn't help himself, you know.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: He had he had to take somebody hostage by putting a shotgun to the back of his head.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like no, he didn't have to do that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just it was just like bizarre what?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then yeah, and then you know, at the end they did tell you that, you know, he got they figured he wasn't a danger anymore, so they let him out.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, he lived the rest of his life life in Indianapolis.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like and so and so did um Mr.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hall.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he did too.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: He lived in Indianapolis.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hall got screwed screwed harder than anybody on that deal.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's just like because he ended up losing his his father, who was also part of the business, dies, and he loses the business, and then his his marriage falls apart.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's just like, well, if anything, you know, he's the one who got the the worst end of it.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and really, I mean, it was kind of amazing to watch this too, because you know, this I mean the focus obviously wasn't on the hostage.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't on him at all.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Not I mean, really, and even like the newscasting people, you know, the footage you're watching, right?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they talked about the hostage.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't show any of that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: That they even talked much about him.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, you know, what is he going through?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, wow, and he just stood there, yeah, you know, at that crazy press conference.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, gun to his head, and all these people just inches away from him.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and my okay, my whole thing is that so there's this whole thing about like, oh, it's it's held by a wire.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we have these things called wire cutters.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thing was and everybody is literally like on top of him.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like he's he's shoulder to shoulder with these police officers.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're touching him.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're yeah, and it's like you can restrain him and make him so he's not gonna shoot the gun.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: But the only thing is he had he had so Tony had a wire around his neck too.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then it went to the trigger.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where his finger was.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what but that's what I'm saying.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like at that you can you you can r there's I feel like there was stuff they could have done.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there was actions they could have taken.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just it was I mean, luckily letting it run.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, luckily, I mean, no one got killed.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and I do know like at that crazy press conference too, I was reading about it how um, you know, it went on.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was an hour press conf he talked for an hour.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um some of some of the um you know, news people they they just thought they have to s stop filming because they really were afraid that he that this is what he wanted.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to kill this man on live television.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they were not gonna have that footage.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: They were not gonna be, you know.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I could definitely see that.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and and at the time, there's no delay or anything that they would have been able to cut, you know, and say, you know, if it happened, it was gonna happen, and they were everybody was gonna see it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then at the end they did talk about it how, you know, it was such a media frenzy kind of thing.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and Tony was w obviously watching TV and listening to the radio.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: What if nobody listened to him?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was nothing.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was like radio silence.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like so I mean, uh obviously what he wanted, he wanted an audience.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted the attention, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean he totally got it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Even when he walks him down there with the shotgun, you know, he's not even gonna start until everybody he knows everybody's um cameras are turned on.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and they gotta be quiet and they gotta listen.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right, and he's blocking the one guy blocks his you know, the line and he tells him to get out of the way.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you know, it's like, oh my god.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: But what what if there weren't that many people there?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or what if nobody was there?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the thing, because he's doing it to get attention.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it's like.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like he wants and and you know, and I think that's where you know the insanity part is probably very true.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see, and uh I go, I was kind of going back and forth on that myself with trying to what I would determine.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like he was in total control of what he was doing, that it was premeditated, yeah, that he he he like wired him up the way that he wanted to.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: He he called and said what he was doing, he intentionally called it in and said, This is what I am doing.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: He even practiced it before by doing by kidnapping his own sister.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like he knows what he's he knew what he was doing.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: He was manipulating the whole thing.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: The whole time.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he was getting exactly what he wanted.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that he wanted the show.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then he went free.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, kind of I mean, after 10 years.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: But then that was his doing too.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was in total control of that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because of what he was refusing to have, you know, go through.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: He would he just wanted to control everything.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's just like, wow.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: It it was one where it's like, you know, they take you take somebody hostage, and then it's like, okay, but for almost any hostage situation, it's like, okay, we're trying to get something accomplished, and once you get that thing accomplished, then it's like, okay, then we can kind of let these let these people go.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But what he was he was trying to get accomplished was not to be prosecuted for what he's doing.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that doesn't sound like an insane person.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's somebody who's totally he knows what he's doing.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: He knows what he's doing, you know, and he didn't like accidentally get into this.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was a plot.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was it was he pre- he thought he he brought, yeah, he brought he brought his gun, he brought his shotgun, he brought, he brought the revolver, he brought it up.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: He brought the wires, yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everything.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he it was planned.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: He planned it out.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: This was not a spur of the moment, this was not irrational, this is not, I'm out of control, I'm out of my mind.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was in control the whole time.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, so I d oh the when the when they find him, you know, not guilty for reasons of insanity on that, then I was just like, that's ridiculous.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely ridiculous.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I just it yeah, it it was it it was weird from beginning to end.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I that's what I think about when I think about this story.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just it you you really you shake your head, you're going, What?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, you just hardly can believe.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I was kind of like going through like stuff like in my mind of like as it's going on, like where I think it's gonna go.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, he's in the he's in the office building.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, so now it's gonna be a hostage situation in the office building, and then they're gonna like set up outside and they're gonna try and contain it and then do what that no, then all of a sudden he's down the street.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well now they're gonna contain him on the street, and then it's like he's gonna end up just walking in circles around the block or whatever.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't even do that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's a then it's a a car chase, but not really a car chase, it's more more of a car follow.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they gave him the police car.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's just yeah, he's uh leaves the car to open with keys and and it's running.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Have a good have a good ride.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and he comes out and he can't find his car.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's the whole thing about yeah, he couldn't can't find his car.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like that too.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It appears to be lost.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then there's the whole thing about his apartment being wired to wired to blow up.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which and f I I I you know later on they found it.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was not.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, but right away they were just like, oh yeah, yeah, it absolutely is.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: It absolutely is.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're clearing everybody out.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, there's yeah, and it's just like, did you even investigate at all?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're just like, oh no, he says it's gonna he says wired, it's wired.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, I understand, like you get a threat of like, okay, the place is wired to blow.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, well, let's clear everybody out, let's investigate, let's find out, you know, and it's like, but they were just immediately just like, nope, no, it definitely is.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: This thing goes, it's gonna take off half the building.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they almost felt like he was intouchable.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, in the end, he was in touch, and he wasn't he they couldn't touch him.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh and then of course they were they give him the the they give him the immunity, which you know they wrote up for him.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then then later on they asked him, like, so was that all just a ruse just to get him out?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Yeah.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's exactly what it was.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking, I'm like, that's probably the smartest thing that anybody did during this whole stupid thing.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they were just like, they're like, yeah, it's like he wants to give him immunity.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well tell him to give him immunity.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you know, and this whole thing that they were like he was demanding that someone come on television and like speak to him.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know, and I'm just like, My God, he's just running this whole thing.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just and here's this this poor guy, this hostage, just like what the freak are you people doing?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and that was and that's the thing for Mr.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hall, it's like it didn't seem like he like had any negative about the press or negative about the the law enforcement officers or anything, you know, and he just was there along for the ride, and then it's like you know, then he's like, all right, and then tries to go back back to his life.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would like to hear a little bit more from him.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like um Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because during the during the whole time he's on film, he's not saying a word.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so and he kind of knows.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because that'll just set Tony off more.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean he he is doing the best he can in a situation.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's just following orders, he's just, you know, he's not saying anything.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's just crazy.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: The whole thing is crazy, and it's just not right.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And none of it was right.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was a it was a big mess from start to finish.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was there was no no no part of it was handled correctly, and uh the only positive thing was that nobody died, I guess.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: That was pretty much it.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then it's like, okay.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they so what uh what I actually thought was gonna happen, so like so they had the agreement and everything, and Tony's letting him go, and then Tony fires off the shotgun.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I thought they were gonna arrest him for discharging a firearm.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a charge.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's all that would have been the way I would have gone.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, that's the only reason we're taking you in, Tony, because you fired that shotgun.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's all there is, you know.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Discharge the firearm, there you go.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yeah, and it's like, you know, but it's the whole thing was just bizarre.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and you know, it's it it was, I don't know, in the 70s, it's a weird time.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think we as a society have learned a little bit.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the part at the end though, when they talked about like um cameras and filming everything.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: That that part we totally agree that is what everybody does now.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Films everything.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody had like because there's such a high population of of people that have cell phones, and all cell phones now have cameras attached to them.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody has the camera in their pocket, and it's like everybody's filming everything.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's filming everything, sharing it all over whenever they can, wherever they can.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: It hits everything, and it's just kind of like wow, yeah, it's I don't know.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I really do feel if if this had happened and nobody paid attention, I wonder what what the outcome would have been.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he would have killed him just because he would get so angry that nobody was paying attention.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I you know, I'll show you.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, you don't have to have everybody in the lobby of the of the apartment complex to be able to do.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, you set up everybody out back, you know, they have a perimeter, they do like an update of like, okay, you know, here we are, you know, our whatever, you know.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was just like yeah, the the media frenzy on this one was just it was over the top.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was definitely over the top.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's you know, and I don't know.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a tough, yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was just one of those when I've when I saw it on on television, I'm going, what is happening?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it and because it's one of those like, and it kept going.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's like, how is this, how is this still going?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's really is anybody like kind of backing off and kind of but yeah, it's it's uh it's it's pretty crazy.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is it's a crazy story.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely a crazy story.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to see the movie, yeah Dead Man's Wire is the name of the movie.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'll check out a trailer first and see if see what it looks like.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um then Gus Van Zan uh directed it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Bill, but Bill Skysgard, I think that's his name.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, Skysgard.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: He is Tony.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would have picked, I don't know.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I get the crazy eyes.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I understand that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: He can do he can go.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: The physicality though, no.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just I couldn't go there.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Shorter, shorter, stockier, you know, is what I would go for, which is what Tony was.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I understand, you know, yeah, you're shooting a movie, and you know, you you have creative choices and everything, but that's part of the the the the it's the look.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's the look of what's going on.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like, yeah, if it was Especially when you're film, you're you're you're filming a true, it's a it's a true event.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: People people have seen pictures, right?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or you know, yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if it was a story they made up, it's like, yeah, you can cast cast whoever you want.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's great.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was just yeah, so that's kind of why I didn't pick the movie.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, now I'm kind of wondering and going, hmm, I wonder how that movie is.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we'll check out the trailer when we're when we're done here.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: See if we should work that we should.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, should we go ahead and wrap this one up?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I guess so.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you guys for listening.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh make sure you guys go check out uh if you would like.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you would like.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you would like.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you would like, if you're interested, you know.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the man.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna screw it up again.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Dead man's line.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Dead man's line.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you guys go check out Dead Man's Line.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we are able to find it uh free on YouTube.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So uh wherever you can get it, uh, kind of an independent kind of documentary.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, until next time, I'm Barry.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Robin.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we will talk to you guys later.