Latest / RESHAPED / Episode 5: Noah Mata P.2 | Demons, Denominations & Comedy

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Episode 5: Noah Mata P.2 | Demons, Denominations & Comedy · RESHAPED

• Aaron: Hello and welcome back to the Reshape Podcast. Super excited today to drop part two of my conversation with my good friend Noah Mada. It was a long, long conversation, so I broke it up in two parts. So go listen to part one if you haven't listened to that already. gives a lot of context about who he is growing up, how he became a Christian and all that good stuff. but here in part two, we talk about a lot of other things. So we talk about the spiritual realm, demonic powers, spiritual warfare, spiritual strongholds. We talk about the work that he does. at Bread for the World, which is the organization that he works for, which is a organization that is aiming to end World Hunger, a Christian organization. and his role there is he goes to different churches, all different Christian traditions and speaks about Bread for the World, what they do. He preaches as well and then he also requests and asks for funding and and donations and things like that for people to support what they do. So that's really, really cool. So it definitely I'll drop a link in the description if you want to see the work that Bread for the World do, if you want to donate and give to that or just check out their work, because they do great stuff. and because of him being very interdenominational in that sense, so being around all different types of Christianity, I yeah, ask him his thoughts about how he navigates that, seeing differences and things like that. and also, of course, becoming a Christian in our family of churches, he you know, I talked to him about baptism and how he and and you know certain doctrines there and how he kind of navigates that with other church denominations as well. And he gives some great thoughts about that too. we talk about, yeah, a bit about evangelism and about conversion and what that process is like and yeah so that's that's really cool to talk about. Then we go to talk about his stand-up comedy that he does and how he navigates his stand-up comedy career. with Christianity and how that kind of all fits together and how he yeah, just kind of navigates all of that through a Christian Christian lens. And of course we also talk about where he is being reshaped as well, which he gives some great thoughts there too. so yeah, that's kind of the t all the things that we talk about. Now I do want to make something very clear, just a just about I guess my stance at the moment on on water baptism. because we do talk about it in this conversation and I think it's helpful just to, you know for people, especially I think knowing a lot of people that listen to this would be in my fellowship of churches and we do hold the view that like I've mentioned before that we believe that baptism, water baptism is essential for salvation and essential in the conversion process. and so just to I want to make it clear so that you don't have to guess what what where I'm at w as you hear the conversation. Cause I know I've done that too and I've heard certain other people talk about these areas as well. So where I currently stand in my belief and conviction about water baptism is that I do absolutely one hundred percent believe that you need to be baptized to be saved. Like I do believe that. I believe you have to have faith in Christ. You need to repent from your sin, and turn to Christ and that you do need to be water baptized. so that is my position. That's what I believe still and that's what I teach still. and very much convinced of that, that when someone has faith, repents, and get bap gets baptized, they receive the forgiveness of their sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now, where I might differ with certain people in our fellowship of churches, and I know that some people will disagree with this, but I know some people do agree with me with this, because I've had these conversations with people in real life, but is the area of w what does someone need to understand about baptism? Like so we call that like the the cognizance, what is the level of understanding that they need to have about water baptism in order for it to be valid? And if you don't have a certain amount of knowledge about baptism, does that invalidate your baptism? so there's a s there'd be a sliding spectrum there. I'm gonna talk about that a little bit in the intro next week, for next week's episode. I have a conversation with someone and we talk about that. in our conversation. So I'll kinda give more details there about that. But absolutely I believe you need to be you have to have faith, you have to repent and you need to be baptized to be saved. All right. Hope you enjoyed this conversation with Noah Mata. amazing. and what you did there at a at Capital Collective, bro. So amen to that. But Noah Mata: Mm. Aaron: it obviously did come to an end. and again, feel free to go into as much or little detail about that as as you feel comfortable. but speak to that, kinda what happened there, and then you're in a kind of a new season of life now, and and where you're at, what you're doing right now. So Yeah, go ahead and maybe talk a little bit about that process. Again, as much as you feel feel comfortable with. Noah Mata: Yeah. No, and I appreciate the space to be able to talk about it as well. I think you know, obviously I was it in two thousand twenty-three? it's so funny I'm saying two thousand twenty-three instead of twenty twenty-three. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: but yeah, there was some really tough personal and family challenges that I went through and stuff that I was not anticipating or foreseeing. And you know, that ended you know, a a relationship that I, you know, did not think would end and and I think part of the the challenge there too was what was illuminated even in my own character. and it You know, it's interesting 'cause I think your character will be refined and revealed no matter what. And I Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: think for me, I think the Lord just had it that I needed to I maybe not needed, but I had an opportunity to be able to learn in this unique way. So I was in a discernment period at the end of that that year. along with Phil, 'cause Phil I had had kind of entrusted Phil to to really steer me and guide me through that time and he was going through his own challenges, going through his cancer diagnosis as well. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and I will f never forget his guidance through that time. He was like, hey, you're you're never going to regret being able to work on you even if no one is pushing you out. of shepherding them. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and that was the interesting part was that I had decided to step out. Nobody had told me to, you know, to leave. And it was that was Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: vul vulnerable, especially because this church became my, you know, my dream. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: Leave capital capital collective. Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: Leave yeah, and leave leading it. And Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: but you know I I learned a lot through that time and I'm so grateful for the relationships that I continue to have. I a a group of gu guys that I do life with, we call ourselves the Brotherhood. And it's was born out of desire to administer a rule of life. So a rule of life is essentially it's not like rules of life, but it's essentially a it comes from kind of the desert father tradition, if you will, of it's like a rule, like a trellis, essentially Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: a an aim in our discipleship, an aim in Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: our lives. And I I develop a new rule of life every year. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: and there's a group of twelve of us. We call ourselves the Brotherhood. and all of us come from different faith traditions and backgrounds, but what's what's really anchored us is our common love for Jesus. And that group saved me in so many ways. they Aaron: Well. Noah Mata: they held my arms up throughout my journey in transition, both Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: from yeah, my my leadership position, but also that relationship. And so yeah, without them and I and I I really feel that I think the the idea of discipleship isn't just limited within the f confines of the local church, but it really is a a lifetime decision where it's, hey, you know, discipleship can look very different. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: and in this in this in this context for me it was them showing up both financially for me, Aaron: Well well. Noah Mata: showing up relationally, emotionally, pointing me towards the right direction, giving me even recommendations for good therapists and good Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: counseling, and that was really, really special. so but what was great was the church continued and they Aaron: Amen. Noah Mata: are still around to this day and under new leadership and they, you know, obviously had to go through their own kind of journey and transition. You know, I'm still really dear friends with people who are still involved with that church today with Capital Collective and Yeah, and for me, truthfully, for you know, a couple of years after transitioning out, I had to go through my own journey and I wanted to be in a church environment where I could be anonymous, that, you know, no one Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: knew my name, that I could just hear the word, be around. and yeah, you know, like anybody would be when you transition from a role like that. Yeah, I I was tempted to just like kinda call it quits altogether. but if anything throughout that time I felt almost like in John six sixty you know Jesus Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: preceding that passage says a really challenging word to a lot of people following him, and most of that crew ditched him because Aaron: Yeah, they leave. Noah Mata: the words that he said was so difficult and then hit the t the twelve Aaron: Mm. Where you going? Yeah, you guys are gonna go. That's right. Mm. Noah Mata: he looks at them and he's like, you guys gonna leave too? And then Yeah. And then the response was Where else are we gonna go? Where else are we gonna like Aaron: Got the words of eternal life. That's right. Yeah. Noah Mata: And so I think for me that was truthfully kind of my own, you know, you have the words of eternal life moment where I was like, I Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: I don't know where exactly I'm gonna go, but I'm not gonna leave you. and I th I think in many ways, yeah. And and still, you know, I'm I'm like anybody, or I'm still on my journey. but I really believe that he showed up for me in so many ways. and Yeah, various ways were you know, after transitioning out, I wasn't sure, you know, what I was gonna do career wise. So I, you know, worked in coffee for a bit and that was really great. I love coffee, so I was a very average barista. I think my personality probably won people over more than my latte art. but but hey. Amen. Aaron: Hey, hey, that's it man. Nah bro, I we're gonna get you to Melbourne bro. We're gonna show you the coffee here in Melbourne. We'll make it happen. We're gonna make it happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey. Hey Noah Mata: That's it, man. I could dial I could dial it in real good, but I my goodness, my art is struggling. but Aaron: He Noah Mata: but then I yeah, then I worked some other kind of I worked in a like education consulting firm, which was great. I actually really loved that job. had made some really good friends there. But then January twenty twenty five, Reverend Eugene Show, who wrote this book, Thou shalt not be a jerk. He was the president of Bread for the World at the time. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: Him and I connected during 2020. I reached out to him for input just on how to navigate politics through the lens of Christianity. And and he became a really great resource, widely respected amongst many traditions. And he actually reached out to me during that time and saw that I wasn't leading the church anymore. And was like, hey, you know, I would love to to chat and just kind Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: of catch up on how life has been. And you know, lo and behold, he was looking for someone like me to to fill a position at Bread for the World. and after some prayer and I had my own doubts too. I was like, you know, am I am I in a place where I feel confident to speak? on matters of justice. Aaron: Hm. Noah Mata: you know, Bread Bread for the World is yeah, it's a advocacy organization centered around dil eradicating hung hunger for for good and Aaron: Mm, yeah. Noah Mata: through actionables for the Christian church. And I think for me it was one of those things that I was like, man, I this feels like all of my worlds combined, kind of my journey combined, it's like a it it Aaron: Yeah. Coming back Yeah, that's great. Noah Mata: it it felt so aligned. but again a lot of the resistance that I felt was out of fear. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: so but I said yes and you know I've been with them now for year and a half, almost two years and it's been such a gift Aaron: Come on. Noah Mata: to be able to yeah, to be able to advocate both from a policy standpoint but then also yeah to to be one to to raise the calarian call to the churches that it is our responsibility Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: to feed the hungry. it is our responsibility Aaron: Yeah, it's good. Noah Mata: to be aware of the systems in which we can help administer the right programs and the the right assistance programs and food resources for people. So and yeah, getting to preach the word Aaron: Awesome. Yeah, let's drop a l we'll drop a link, bro. We'll drop we'll drop a link in the in the in the bio for this one. We'll put yeah, and the and the Instagram as well. Yeah, that's doing great work there. That's great. Yeah, so you got that job in. So Noah Mata: Yeah man. Yeah man. Yeah. So Aaron: you've been there now coming up, man, for geez, coming up now two do you say one and a half, two years? Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, and it's been a gift. Aaron: Yeah, man. That's awesome. Enjoying that and and that's Noah Mata: You know, I think you know, I think the Sea Rock Collective was such a gift as far as like opening my world to different traditions of faith. and Again, so many people even within that space are doing such great work, publishing really great books and and resources that no matter what tradition you're part of, you're utilizing and you're you're finding inspiration with and and for me, yeah, just the doors that it's opened, the people I've been able to connect with and meet. Aaron: Praise God. Noah Mata: and yeah, now working for Bread for the World and being able to be in different traditions and and different rooms. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and and really speaking on behalf the best as I can of the hungry and of the people advocating for the hungry and Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and I truly believe what Jesus' perspective is how he would contextualize even the the idea that the poor is always among you, it's interesting because it's like, yeah, but the responsibility of sharing the resources and making sure that people have what they need is also among you, you know? So Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: it's it's it's it's been really special just to be able to Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: to have that be part of my life. So Aaron: That's great, man. And so you're going around to different so basically you're going around to different churches, different denominations outside of our, you know, the church tradition, our church tradition, going to different churches and basically explaining the program, explaining what you guys do and and asking and asking for funding. Is that is that kind of the role that you have? Noah Mata: Yeah, for sure. And it's it's multifold. So yeah, I I obviously kind of work through the funding component funding lens 'cause obviously we Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: you know, like any organization, you know, you live and die by the coin. Aaron: Need money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: but but also, you know, being being a pastor, I'm part of our speakers bureau, which is consisted Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: of pastors both currently Aaron: great. Yep. Noah Mata: but then also you know, former. so yeah, so being recognized Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: as an ordained pastor, a reverend, being able to yeah, to also preach the word when it comes to Aaron: That's so cool. Noah Mata: to that as well. And then also I you know, work with organizations and then major gift donors so you usually individuals who who give a s up above a certain amount. it's really Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: special because I think even through the lens of generosity, I've been really convicted by people's generosity. and, you know, Aaron: Yeah, I bet. My gosh. Yeah. Noah Mata: talk about you know, I I think the wealthy often get a bad rap. And the wealthy are stigmatized Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: in a lot of ways. But my goodness, there are so many wealthy individuals who are so, so generous, who emulate Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: that that c that that conviction of yeah, that nothing that I have is mine. You know, that it is all God's Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and I must you know, I'm invited to to share what I have. So Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: yeah, so that that's been a really Aaron: That's so cool. Noah Mata: really Cool gift, yeah, in this Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: in this season. Aaron: Amen, man. so so being this is cool 'cause you are very interdenominational. Like this is this is it's it's pretty clear, right? You got you got so many connections interdenominationally. is it safe to say now that you are church wise, what where what what tradition are you a part of? Are you still connected to our tradition of ch family of churches? Are you kind of planted in another church at the moment? yeah, where are you at with that at the moment? Noah Mata: Yeah, I it's so I you know, people have asked me this a lot and you know th the reality is for me there will be relationships that I will always have in our f tradition of churches and Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: I I think that's in many ways that's my conviction, that's God's design is that you know, I I will forever be indebted to this family of churches for my faith, for my journey, both Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: the the the good and the bad, 'cause it doesn't matter what tradition you're part of, Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: you will experience both ends of the spectrum. You will experience the highest Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: highs and the lowest lows. And I and I'm Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: very much I'm I I very much recognize the people who maybe experience one more than the other. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: And truthfully for me, I feel like I've experienced both. Like there's no side of the spectrum that that supersedes the other. Aaron: You sit on, yeah. Noah Mata: yeah, and you know, I've been h hurt as much as I've been helped. So Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: so for me at this season of my life, no, I'm not necessarily currently consistently attending a church in our tradition. but for me, yeah, currently I I kinda straddle between two two churches here in Denver. We're trying to figure it out. so one is called Life Gate Church. it's a great church, led by a friend of mine, a pastor named Naroup, and then Vineyard, which the Vineyard family of churches I've just come to really admire and respect both from afar and now close. Pastor Jay Pathic is the the pastor there. One of the Probably the most inspiring Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: and yeah the one of the most humble and and really like trustworthy pastors that I've come across who Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: just holds holds such a deep reverence for scripture and spiritual formation and discipleship, but then also he's just a funny dude. And so Aaron: Yeah, nice. Is it are those are they what denomination are those? Noah Mata: So yeah, the the vineyard family of churches is a denomination in and of itself. there there's Aaron: Okay. Yeah. Noah Mata: a lot of yeah, traditional roots that are kind of cross have have crossed territories in past, Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: but they themselves are a family of church a family of churches, so if you will, a denomination. And then Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: I'm actually yeah, so Life Gate I'm not sure I I pretty sure it's non-denominational, but you know, it comes from other traditions like assemblies of God. Some Aaron: Mm-hmm. Okay. Noah Mata: people have come from assemblies of God, some Baptist tradition, and so yeah, Aaron: Okay, yep. Okay, cool. Noah Mata: so truthfully, yeah, very much a smattering of a bunch of worlds. so yeah, so the obvious Aaron: Pretty in ye interdenominational, yeah. That's cool. So I go ahead, go ahead, go, go ahead. Noah Mata: yeah. I was gonna say, yeah, so the the obvious question of Noah, like I think in our family of churches, the the question of baptism is always the Aaron: man, beat me to my question. Yeah, that's what that's Noah Mata: The Yeah. Aaron: what I was gonna that's what I was gonna ask. Or just more yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, 'cause I was gonna ask, and you can speak to this obviously however you want to, is yeah, how do you you know, kind of from our tradition we kind of have this this emphasis on this you know, salvation, and and you know, the faith repentance baptism kind of concoction, if you will, of of salvation. And you know, we we we might look at other traditions that don't believe necessarily the exact same thing and go, what about that? What about that? what do they do? And s and so like what would you say to that kind of tension there of wait, how do you navigate, are they really Christians? Are they are they not? Are they saved? Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: Are they not saved? Which is I think a big point of contention for us, and something that needs to get fleshed out. But yeah, how do you kind of view that now being so interdenominational? Which I think is a Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: great thing, by the way. Noah Mata: No, for sure. yeah, there's two pivotal books and works for me that I'd recommend, just because obviously like you know, only so much can be understood within a statement, but I Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: think understanding my heart, so David Benner has this book called The Gift of Being Yourself, The Sacred Call to Self Discovery. one of the lines he says here is some Christians base their identity on being a sinner. I think they have it all wrong or only half right. You are not simply a sinner, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you are a deeply loved sinner, and there is all the difference in the world between the two. And I bring that up because so Aaron: Good. Noah Mata: much of our identity, right, is like how do we respond to this problem of sin? And Aaron: Of sin, yeah. Noah Mata: yeah. And sin almost becomes like this this agent in which either defines us or it doesn't. And I I I Aaron: Yeah, you in or out. Noah Mata: think that's yeah. but what's interesting is what I love about this book is it's it's really about all right, how do I get within again that word proximity again, within proximity to understanding God's love. for me I think it it is truthfully getting to this place of okay, how do I operate from coming to the love of Jesus through his love, not through the guilt of my sin? And the shame of my sin. So and another book is Eternity Is Now in Session. and and this this book let me actually why am I forgetting the author? Aaron: it up. Noah Mata: John Ortberg, yeah. John Ortberg who is also he lectures at in Fuller in Pep in Pasadena, California. But but Eternity Down Session is really the invitation is how do you illuminate and live a life with heaven existing now. Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: not just something to wait for post mortem. Aaron: To wait for it to get yeah, okay. Noah Mata: yeah. So I think for me, obviously like I my personal conviction for myself was that I knew I needed to get baptized when I did. because for me it was an invitation to culminate the discipleship in which I decided to follow. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and I think in many ways, baptism absolutely is a culmination of all of those those worlds. so that's where I am as far as, you know, my personal conviction. Like I probably call myself a like a charismatic Anabaptist. so Aaron: Mm-hmm. Like that. Noah Mata: yeah. Yeah, I think making an adult decision to get baptized is important and crucial. but I I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, and I do believe that the Holy Spirit has dominion in ways humans don't. So for me to Aaron: Absolutely. Noah Mata: dictate who is saved and who isn't was never my job. and I Aaron: Mm. Yeah. Noah Mata: know that's a big statement, I know that's tough from a pastoral perspective, and I know a lot of people would disagree with me on that, but Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: I do think we have to be so careful on the way that we define who's saved and who isn't, and I really do believe it's more invitational language that we're called to. so and then you Aaron: Yes. Yeah. Noah Mata: know this goes into I I know Aaron Aaron and I have talked a lot about the spiritual realm and the demonic and all of those things that would open up a whole can of worms. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Noah Mata: but I'll say this I can drop this statement is it is possible for you to be saved, to have a operational, functioning, beautiful consistent relationship with Jesus and have the demonic presence in your life if that's if those strongholds have not been broken. And Aaron: Mmm Okay, okay. Yep, yep. we gotta talk about that. Yeah. Noah Mata: It's interesting, right? Because when we when we live on this side of eternity, you know, that's the thing is that we we still live within the consequences of our our fathers and their fathers and their mothers and their mothers. So, I think Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: oftentimes when we define our discipleship and our salvation, exclusively by the conduct of our lives, you know, we Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: We're almost stiff arming the grace of God. So that's my that's my thought on all that. Aaron: Mm, no, that's a good point. Yeah, no, I love that man. I love what you said that it's I think as Christians, evangelism I I think is more meant to be invitational language for sure, in some in in a lot of senses, where it's not I yeah, I do think there's times where you have to be strong about certain things, whatever, but I think the way I view it now is I'm just putting everything on the table for you to look at and that's your decision. Like this is what ge this is what w we believe Jesus Noah Mata: Mm-hmm. Aaron: has done. This he's died on the cross. He loves us. He's shown us grace and love and he's he's he's risen from the dead, he's conquered the grave, he's paid for your sin. And this is the response. if you would so like to choose to respond that way. Like that that that's it. And of course Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: we should encourage, absolutely try pursu sure, but I think the invitational element is really, really good. And yeah, I love the idea of culmination point. I just had a conversation with Chris, another episode, he used to be part of our family of churches. He moved on to another church, particularly around because of the the baptism stuff. and yeah, we kind of really much agreed on this idea that look, it the early disciples probably didn't really care about what point you were say. They weren't trying to specify at what exact point what we saved. The whole point was that Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: you are saved. It's like your faith in Christ, you repent, you Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: get baptized. It all would have probably been very much similar timing. And all culminated probably at baptism. and that's a great thing. and he talked about a wedding analogy. You it's like when you're married, when are you married? What what point? You're not talking Noah Mata: Mm-hmm. Aaron: about that. You're just saying you're married, like you just got married. cause so many Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: things happened that that that contribute to the marriage. and it's it's it's a great celebration. And so I think that's that's a really, really good point that you make. Invitational, not and I think it takes the stress off sometimes because I think we we get so like the burdens on us to To make it happen, you know. c convince that person to be to get baptized, convince that person to become a Christian. Where it's like, hey man, I I'm just a beggar that's been given some bread and I just want to show you where the bread's at. Noah Mata: Mm-hmm. Aaron: Like that's what I want to do. And I want to help you in every single way possible that I can. and let the spirit do his thing, as as he so pleases. So yeah, so I think that's a really good point. Really, really good point. I think Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah. And there's a place for urgency, right? I think that's the there's a there's a level of urgency that I think just takes discernment, but when that becomes the knee jerk reaction, yeah. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: It so much of that I mean, admittedly for me, whenever I felt like I had to I had to save this guy, it was Aaron: Make it make it happen. Make it happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clutch, clutch. Noah Mata: Yeah, it was interesting because I'm like, yeah, I'm just like, yeah, that's it's the onus is on me. It's not on them, it's not on Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: the Holy Spirit, it's not on it's not even on trust. I think for me it's like, my goodness, like we we've placed so much pressure on on us. And yeah, when the reality is maybe Yeah yeah, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Aaron: Yeah. And then you can make and it's like you c Go ahead, go ahead, sorry. Yeah, I was gonna say and and things you can make it happen and maybe you do make it happen. You maybe convince the person and then it's like, okay. And then maybe they don't they felt pressured and then they didn't really know what they were doing. Or they didn't really they didn't really feel like it was their decision. It's like okay, like what am I doing? And I I'm sure Noah Mata: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Aaron: I've done that. I I've done that. I've no I've definitely probably done that and yeah, things you gotta learn from that for sure. but if you want to quickly talk go ahead, go ahead. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah, but fruit takes time, you know. Yeah, last thing is fruit takes Aaron: Fruit does, fruit does. Noah Mata: time. And it's it's we're just we're seed we're we either sow seeds or we water them or whatever. It that's just not at the the fruit will not grow because of us. If if anything, Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: fruit will grow in spite of us. So yeah. Aaron: Yes. Yes. That's that is planted in the right thing, fruit will come, right? Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: Yeah, that's sanctification. That's so yeah, it's very, very good. let's you wanna happy quick quickly talk about the the demonic element stuff. I think this is this is good stuff. This is probably gonna be like let's be honest, probably for some of the listeners that are probably mainly 'cause just 'cause of my small network of people, it'd probably be people in our tradition, right? That are probably more cessationist leaning or not really sure about the spiritual realm. And I'm to be honest, I'm not I'm not an expert on this at all. So you're probably much more v vast than this. but I definitely believe that there are demonic spirits that have bondage that on on people that hinder people's growth spiritually, that hold them in captivity from experiencing the fullness of Christ. Yeah, Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: bro, I don't know where where you want to start with that, but what what do you think's important for maybe people that yeah, again, that in that may have never ever heard this stuff before to think about and to consider reshaping. Noah Mata: Yeah, I So Second Corinthians ten, verse four, 'cause I know we love scripture. but it says this, Paul writes to the church in Corinth, The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God. We take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience once your obedience is complete, which is crazy. Aaron: Mm, mm-hmm. Noah Mata: the reason why I bring this up is obviously, you know, if we were to read that passage through first century lenses, strongholds would have meant a lot to. the original audience. So to us, when we think about strongholds from a westernized humanistic standpoint, or just a westernized context, you know, it doesn't necessarily make as much sense. Maybe it's like a military context, maybe it's a you know, just yeah. Aaron: Mm. Like a little barrier that we need to knock down or something. Yeah. Noah Mata: But for them, it is a presence. Like they are actually, you know, Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: there is an ad an acknowledgement of the spiritual realm. And so when they hear strongholds, especially in the context of spiritual warfare, you know, it's it it it has deep deeper implications. So Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: what's interesting about that is I do think that's where the conversation starts. I'd love to recommend two different resources for people is Remnant Radio Aaron: Yep. Noah Mata: which is you know authored Aaron: Yes. Love Remnant Radio. Noah Mata: by a a a now friend Michael Miller and he's great actually lives pretty close to me now and Aaron: Crazy. So cool. Noah Mata: and blurry creatures so and yeah so they do a lot of work in talking through you know I'll yeah the podcasts yeah Aaron: They're podcasts, by the way, right? Yeah. Noah Mata: they do a lot of work in talking through even what What are the implications of the spiritual realm today? demonic presences, demonic strongholds. I'd encourage people to to kind of navigate through that. The reality is, in a very like a very shorthand way of saying it, is there are demonic strongholds that exist still today. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: and they could be, we don't fully know because we don't fully understand at all. But they could be the explanation for so many of the even phenomenon happening from a cultural standpoint as well. You know, think about strongholds in America. My goodness, like there are plenty. You could see it all like all you have to do sometimes is be around environments like being in DC. You there are it's very clear there are strongholds there even within the government. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and And how that can impact generations of families, that can impact the individual, that can impact whole societies. and yeah, so for me, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you know, the the deeper you dive into that realm, I mean, maybe what a lot of people in our faith tradition are com familiar with is the unseen realm, which Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: was a a book Also I'm authors are escaping me right now, but I Aaron: No, you good. Noah Mata: would I would research that right now if if you can, but the unseen realm as well. so yeah, who is the author of that? Aaron: on the Noah Mata: Gonna kill me. Aaron: same realm Michael Hazel? Noah Mata: Yes, Michael Heiser. Good old Heiser. Yes. Aaron: Yeah, yeah, the goat. Yeah, yeah, the goat. Good old Heiser. Yeah, I forgot. I was like, I've definitely heard that book. Yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. Aaron: Yeah, it's a good book. Noah Mata: Again, so these are so why that has personal implications for me is you know, in my family tradition, not our faith tradition, but in my family, there's just been a lot of strange activity that's happened in my family. my mom has always had kind of like a a a cognizance or like a sensitivity to the spiritual realm. Like she's definitely seen spirits, she's seen you know even the spirits of people who are dead and Yeah, my mom isn't necessarily one to be, you know She's not one to initiate that conversation. She's not out here being like, I see all the time. But you know, you get this sense of, okay, she's got a sensitivity to it. And even my Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: own life, the older I've gotten and the more deeply available I've become to the spiritual realm, the more I've been sensitive to things like that too. Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: and we've got some stuff from a generational standpoint and both sides of the family. that were just patterns. And I'm like, man, I started really wanting to dive into understanding these patterns. if you've never done a geneogram, it's basically looking at your genealogy, family tree, but different spiritual moments, like very, very specific moments that could have or maybe not have implication on your current life. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: So the combination of doing all of those things to me, man, was like both from a therapy standpoint but then spiritual standpoint were eye opening. I was like I had no idea that we had this pattern of adultery in my family or infidelity and I didn't know we had this pattern of even disease in my family. Aaron: Right. Yep. Noah Mata: you know, diabetes, I got diabetes. Like, what the heck? I you know It's weird. It's weird thinking about it because I'm like Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: I was always I always cared about fitness. and but then like being able to dispel some of the the assumptions about disease. So, once I started kind of looking more deeply into this and even my a lot of the connections I've been able to develop within my own my brotherhood, you know, my rule of life crew and Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: different cohorts I've been involved with. I came across Michael Miller's work and we got to do some sessions with him. And in my family we have Freemasonry in my family and my grandfather was a grandmaster and my grandmother was the morning star. So I don't really fully understand like the the roles itself but they Aaron: They're sounds they're deep in it. They're deep in Freemasonry. That's the point. Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, they were deep in it. Yeah. And Freemasonry has is is known to have plenty Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: of demonic strongholds within. and yeah, working with Michael, being able to identify some of those things, we had a session that, yeah, saw some crazy things happen, which I won't, you know, fully disclose here, but why I bring this up though is Aaron: It's a deliverance session, is that what you'd call is that what you call it? Or just a session Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, deliverance session, yeah, I had a deliverance session, yeah. And and it's it's not as weird as people th I mean it's definitely weird. There's there's things that could happen, which Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: in my case did. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: but it doesn't have to be you know, I think when we think deliverance or you know, an exorcism, if you will, like we think the movie The Exorcist where, you know, Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: start convulsing and then like, you know, you become green, you start just cussing, you know, foaming Aaron: Foaming, yeah, foaming the mouth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: at the mouth. But it could happen and I've seen it Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: happen. and again, this is this is, you know, Church of Christ boy, or, you know, coming from our tradition of like cessationism and like very Yeah, Aaron: Mm. Super cessationist, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: being very about much more the material experience. And I'm like, nah, this Aaron: Sceptical. Sceptical, right? Sceptical generally, yeah. Noah Mata: Absolutely. And I think there's there's good there's wisdom in skepticism for sure, but man, I and I Aaron: Yes. Amen to that. Amen. Noah Mata: was skeptical going in. I think even a lot of my buddies were kinda like, Yeah, we're not really the but then you know, you can't deny when you're able to see things both come out and the transformation that comes as a result. So you know, and this is a separate category from like listening prayer, which I do think listening prayer is a great precursor to be available for something like this, but usually I would, Aaron: What's that? Noah Mata: you know listening prayer. Aaron: What's the yeah, listening prayer. Yeah, what's that? Noah Mata: Yeah, so listening prayer is essentially it's like a it's a it's a mode in which you create space for the Holy Spirit to speak maybe words upon you to be able to share a deposit in somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Aaron: Right. okay. Or to listen to the spirit to I got you. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: Which to be real, I think in cessationist environments we do actually all the time without even saying it or naming it like that. For example, you Aaron: Y mm. Noah Mata: know, in a lot of our context we're studying the Bible with somebody. and when I say studying the Bible for people who don't understand what that means, it's opening the scripture and trying to help someone come to scriptural conviction for a hermeneutic or a practice in their life. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: But oftentimes we'll use an analogy, right? It's like, hey, you know, for example, like the watch your life and doctrine closely in the first Timothy Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: passage. it's like we use the plain analogy. It's like, all right, it's like the the the the wing of Aaron: You're gonna have one wing and the other wing. Yeah. Noah Mata: life and the wing of practi But it's interesting, right? We we say it like an analogy, but it's like in listening prayer, if you take that and Allow yourself to be more available to what the spirit is speaking to you, it becomes a little bit more technicolored in your head. Like Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: I'm seeing you on a plane right now. I'm seeing two Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: wings. You're looking out the window. Aaron: Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more visual. Yeah. Noah Mata: Right? It's it's it's we make ourselves avail and I think artists get this. Like when artists artists are in a place of imagination, it's like wow, like it's almost so vivid. Yeah, that's the Holy Spirit. so anyways, different Aaron: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Noah Mata: conversation for a different day. But what I would say is I think there are plenty of disciples that are like, Why can't I break this pattern in my life or why does this keep like I have the same anger as my parents? I have the same, you know, or our financial instability. It's like I we why why does it seem like we just can't Aaron: Some illness maybe. Yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, right? It's like an unexplained illness. Like why, you know, why is there such a deep history of lymphoma in my fe you know? So it's like whatever that might be, it's it could be. And that's the thing, is it's like I think the invitation for diving into demonic strongholds, the spiritual realm is it could or could not be. And I think Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: we're resistant to the possibility of it being that. so Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: yeah. Aaron: Do you think that comes from like if the the fear of if it doesn't happen, then it's kind of like it could shake our faith kind of thing? Noah Mata: Think that's absolutely part of it. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: and I think like anybody, I would and I I appreciate this about Michael Miller, which is why I think he's trustworthy in many ways, is always prefacing is like, look, I'm not the one who will heal you, I'm not the one who is responsible Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: for whether or not this is going to work. But I'm here to administer. I'm here to be available to it. And if it could it it's possible. So and I think that's the thing, is Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: just it's the wisdom of whoever's conducting a session like that. And I think this is true across the board. I think even with discipleship, it's like, hey, I'm just trying to help you understand that that it is very possible. Like with God, nothing is impossible. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: And it's very possible that there could be a stronghold that you are not aware of, or that could be the name of a demon that you're unaware of that actually exists within your family line and is Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: creating a home in you right now. So, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: but yeah. So I think that's that. I I think with Aaron: No, it's good. Noah Mata: that preface that can dispel any of the, you know, almost like guarantee. so yeah, it's similar to like when you're getting Aaron: Yeah, it's good. It's good. How how what Noah Mata: chemotherapy for, you know Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: Yeah. It's just like a good practitioner would be like, This can work. I cannot give Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: you a guarantee that this will a hundred percent work. So Aaron: Hm. Yeah, that's good. I what would your advice be for people that like a to just be they're like, Okay, what a okay, this could be a thing, what do I do? Like maybe even, you know, speaking from being in part of our family of churches, what would you what would you what would you suggest? Obviously do some r Noah Mata: Yeah. I think you Aaron: research. But yeah, go ahead. Noah Mata: Yeah, I don't think it's abandoning the practices that you do have. So obviously like having accountability partners, I I hate that phrase because I do think it it again centers your life around sin as opposed to inspires you to live a a l a full godly life, you know? Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: So whatever, like relationships that you have. I call them my rule of life partners because it they help me be anchored in in in the life that I intend to live, right? So I don't think you abandon that. I think you if anything you share with them and then but then also too you start really trying to if you see patterns in your life, especially when it comes to familial, I strongly suggest looking into those resources that I mentioned. and and starting to ask the questions and seeing if there's anybody even in your context, in your space, that that has a a skill in being able to identify demonic presences in your life and and have a deliverance session, if you will. It is it is a little Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: bit like you know, because of the skeptici the skepticism people have of it, it is good to dis discern. you know, there are some people Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: that have definitely monetized this in a, you know in a way that's been abusive. Yeah. Aaron: Yeah. I think that plays into the skepticism element too, right? Noah Mata: So, but I d I do think I'm like as long as you don't abandon you know the convictions That I believe you should have on having trusted people in your life, and being able to turn like leave no stone unturned, you know. Sometimes some of the patterns in your life are really simply broken by good practices in your life. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: so, even with addictions Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: and things like that. But it could be both, you know? so Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that pass that passage is really good, the one that you mentioned at the start, 'cause it's like we've got to use the the right weapons, man. Like we've got to use the right stuff, you know, to fight to fight these things. And I like that. It's like, well, why not? Exhaust every everything and and it could t definitely be something like that. Like a spiritual yeah, like Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: a demonic stronghold. So I we have to Yeah, that's great advice, man. I really appreciate that. It's good. any last words on that? Go go ahead. Yeah, yeah. yeah, go. Yeah, great passage. Noah Mata: Yeah, think about it Ephesians six, right? Yeah, Ephesians six, put on the whole armor of God. Right? And I think for us we we put on partial armor. You know, like we're we you know, Aaron: Mm. Mm. That's good. Noah Mata: I might got the helmet, but I don't have, you know, I don't have the shield. Yeah. Aaron: Yeah, my I'm a bit exposed. Yeah, I'm bad a bit exposed in my in my in my chest area. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Hm. Noah Mata: Yeah, seriously. So it's just yeah, I think we don't have to be weird about it either, you know, and like I yeah, it it's weird in nature only because so many of us are influenced by the Western way of thinking, you know? It from an eastern lens, you know this like being Filipino, like we talk about Murto all the time. yeah. And Aaron: yeah, bro. All the time. Yeah, man. There was a good Eastern Co Asian countries, African countries. Like this is this is prevalent. Like it's in their language. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: It's in their it's in their culture and so it's not weird. But yeah, for us our Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: our postmodern science, you know, brains, we think, no, you can't e no, no, can't see it. Doesn't it's not real. It's like, well the fruit of it's real. There's something Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: going on in your life, you know what I mean? So maybe there's some stuff you gotta figure out. Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: And Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: yeah, nah, that's really really good. That's really good. appreciate that. maybe we can talk about your info Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah, my mouth definitely foamed, so Aaron: Hey, and speaking of using your ma inf Noah Mata: I was I was foaming at the mouth. Aaron: bro. Okay. Speaking of your mouth and what you use it for, talk about comedy, bro. Let's talk about let's shift let's shift it. Talk about comedy for a little bit here and your your cause I think Noah Mata: Yeah, man. Aaron: I want to talk about this. This is cool. I I don't I it's cool that I can say I know a stand up comedian, so it's pretty sweet. but bro, tell us how you got in that space, man, and then also yeah, just anything that you've learned from it, and even terms of navigating that as a Christian, because I think there can be, you know, I know there's some some good Christian comedians out there, but from your perspective, how do you navigate that as a Christian and what has it taught you? about Jesus, about God, about communication, anything like that? Noah Mata: Yeah. I yeah, it's funny, man. I no pun intended, but intended for sure. I I always found comedians really inspiring to me. I think growing up. I loved watching stand up because I felt like it wasn't even just, you know, about making people laugh, but it was perspective on something about life that I felt like I mean I call them in many ways, I feel like comedians are cultural prophets. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: because they're able to yeah, kind of speak to something that everybody's feeling or believing or or seeing and able to to contextualize it in a way that nobody would have ever thought but they all are like, my gosh, Aaron: yeah. Noah Mata: I resonate with that. So Aaron: Who are your favourite comedians growing up or even now? Noah Mata: Yeah, I mean I yeah, different Yeah. so favorite comedians growing up. so Frankie sorry, not Frankie, Freddie Prince actually. So Freddie Prince Junior, who's like a an actor Aaron: Okay. Yeah, the the actor? Noah Mata: known in the nineties, his dad was a comedian who unfortunately Aaron: okay. Noah Mata: died at pretty young, but he was actually Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: one of the first comics that I saw and I I loved his cadence, I loved his like approach. But he talked about like racism and microaggression in a Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: way that was so it was definitely like undercutting, but it was like it it it felt like a way that I I would like to communicate it. It's just like there's always something to laugh about. so I Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: really loved Freddie Prince growing up and yeah, and then, you know, obviously that turned into different comics throughout the the years. Like currently I I really love you know Hassan Manaj. I I really love him. He's he's really great because I think he talks about cultural moments, pol you know, political tensions and things like that. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: he d he did a special called the I think it was called the Homecoming King a number of years ago and he talked about his experience post nine eleven being of Indian descent in America Aaron: Right. Mm. Noah Mata: and and yeah, experiencing microaggressive tendencies then. and then Rami Yusuf is another comedian that I really love. Aaron: Okay. Yep. Noah Mata: he's a yeah from Egypt, Muslim American and he yeah Aaron: Yeah, I think I've heard of him. Yeah. Noah Mata: yeah just creative His comedy feels like storytelling, which I love. and then there's some yeah, other comics now. Like Derek Stroop is a Christian comedian, but he ne he doesn't like I I love like him and Nate Bargatszi are guys that like don't necessarily they're not like only talking about Christian stuff, but they're yeah. Aaron: Christian content. Yeah, Christian content. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah. But they're yeah, they're they're both believers. And I've gotten to work with Derek and he's really great. and yeah, th there seems to be this generation of of of of comics that are believers that are Christian. And even comics that aren't necessarily Christian but are very th that there's like a hunger and thirst for for Jesus, Aaron: Mm. Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: and a curiosity there. So anyways, those are some of my inspirations. and people that Aaron: Yes, wait. Noah Mata: I've I've really loved kinda growing up. So, yeah, man. Aaron: Yeah, sweet. So how'd you so how'd you get into it and actually start doing it? Noah Mata: yeah. So yeah, I kinda fell upon it. you know, my so at the time I was doing these apartment events. I worked for this company called Apartment Life and Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: I was like an adult RA for like a luxury apartment in D C and that was part of the reason we were able to afford living where we were in D C and then Aaron: Okay. Yeah. Noah Mata: I loved going to comedy shows, stand up, but we did like a stand up show for our com our apartment community members and there's a there was a guy who produced shows in the city for apartment communities and he was really well connected within the comedy scene in D C which is a really great comedy scene. a lot of people got started out of DC, like John Mullaney and obviously Chappelle guys like that so it kind of Aaron: Yeah. yeah, wow. Noah Mata: carries like the so yeah he had me do a set I did terribly and I just remember feeling one like super embarrassed but then second like I never want to do that bad again. so I yeah I just got started doing Aaron: Okay. You have a bit of fire in your belly. Yep. Noah Mata: like open mics yeah doing open mics in the city and just like learning how to tell a joke because As someone who like preached a lot, I, you know, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: love staring love sharing funny stories. and you know, I had a bit of dad humor still have that with me. but but yeah, humor was something I always cared about. I did some improv like in college and you know even did that kind of at camp as well. and so I you know Aaron: Yeah. yeah, sorry, I can't for kids. Noah Mata: you know Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: playing characters was like something that I loved. But something about stand up though is it was like, wow, no, I get to like it it's me. It's me talking about like this topic and this Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: different nuance or this different, you know, absurdity. And yeah, and I you know, just kept going at it and get kept getting better the more I did it. and it yeah. increased to an opportunity for me to start working in comedy clubs and I pr started producing a show in D C that went really you know, that became really Aaron: that's so cool. Noah Mata: successful. and then got to have gotten to work with some really, really amazing comics that yeah, to this day I I I still attribute to the reason why I'm able to yeah, to do it. You know, it's I'm not full time, obviously. I'm not, you know, I'm not s dedicating all of my time to it but but yeah, I've gotten to perform in in front of a lot of people, being able to talk about my experience both being a Aaron: That's so cool. What's the biggest crowd you've performed in in front of? Noah Mata: Yeah, probably a group well I think there was a weekend in which there was five hundred people that we performed for like throughout the course of the weekend. So that was cool. yeah, so never Aaron: Jeez. Yeah, yeah, gosh, man. That's sick. Noah Mata: done like a you know, like a whole theater show of like, you know, sold out theater show, but I've Aaron: Sure, sure. That's still crazy. That's Noah Mata: yeah, but gotten to do that. So mhm. Yeah, and that was really yeah. Yeah, that was really great. Yeah, Aaron: 'Cause you d you did a special, right? You did a special. You had a forty five minute special that you that you did. Three point called three point sermon. It's on your Instagram. Yeah, yeah, that that was your first Noah Mata: man. Aaron: first like main your the main set, right? How was that? Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was my first like I've I've headlined a little bit before that in some other smaller rooms, but that was my first like big headliner show. Aaron: yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: yeah, that was really beautiful. Yeah, it called three point sermon, so it was my way of kind of colliding all my worlds in one. and Aaron: So good. I love that. Sorry, I was like, that's so that's such a good idea. Noah Mata: yeah, it was it was great 'cause we had a band. It was like so i I wanted it to feel like a worship service. Aaron: That's awesome. Noah Mata: but obviously, you know, I'm I'm say I'm sharing jokes. So, Aaron: Hehehehe Noah Mata: but it was great, yeah. So I you know, I think with comedy both it it's been I mean it's made me a sh a sharper speaker, if you will, 'cause with comedy Aaron: Mm. yeah. Noah Mata: what a lot of people don't talk about enough is like repetition and it's getting the reps and and going to the open mics doing the same joke over and over and over and over again. Like, a lot of people are like, Yeah. I think in this day and age of like clip culture, especially in social media, it's Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: tough because, you know, there's this pressure for people to just like publish their jokes. But the the reality Aaron: Get it yeah, get a clip, yeah. Noah Mata: is once you publish a joke, it's kind of like, all right, it's kind of done. Aaron: it's yeah, you can't use it. I mean, I've seen this one before. I've seen this one before. Yeah, people like yeah, I saw that one. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah. But I Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: think the the sign of a good comedian is somebody who is going up, you know, sussing out and working out the same joke. and still writing new material. but there's Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: some comedians, like for example, there's a comedian, Greer Barnes in New York, and he could be the biggest comedian in the world. I think he's every comedian's favorite comedian. Aaron: well. Noah Mata: But and he could do the same he's I've s heard him do the same ten minutes forever and it's funnier every time. so and yeah, so I think it it's a combination of that of like how you tell the joke. Yeah. Aaron: Wow. It's like how like how they deliver it how they deliver it. Yeah, how they deliver it knowing the the people they're speaking to and and the time. Yeah, yeah. It's just such a skill, man. Such an underappreciated Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: art. Well, I I mean, I think I think to the layman it looks really easy. You know, like, come on, they're just up there just rehearsed. But it's like I think it's When you understand the the complexity of it and 'cause I follow a bunch of comedians and I love their stuff. Like I just it is an art form. Like it really is an art form that's Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: just so underappreciated, I think. Just the amount of effort and time and yeah. And the culture of it is yeah. So what about that? Like how's the culture of it and in terms of like as a Christian navigating that, like do you get place to talk about God? Like what it Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: you know, 'cause some people go, if I was in that space or I don't know, like how what's that like? Noah Mata: Yeah, I mean it's it's truly a melting pot, for sure. Cause you like any industry you'll get I mean, you'll still get people who are not great people. Like they are Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: grumpy like Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: you know, just people who don't care about other people, you know. I I Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: I get very like conscious about calling people degenerates, but whatever, you know. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: yeah. Yeah, you've got kind of degenerative patterns in some people and then Aaron: Sure, sure, sure. Mm. Noah Mata: you have some of the kindest, most welcoming, most yeah, most community focused people I've ever met. So Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: so it's it was cool kind of coming into that environment into that culture. and then there because there's a local scene and then there's traveling comics and that kind of scene. and Aaron: Okay. Yep. Noah Mata: I there it's almost like two completely different worlds. And but I think what's been really cool is coming in both from a pastoral and you Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: know faith context. I've had to figure some stuff out. I've definitely said th things on stage that I what's grace is I i great is I had the grace to be able to say some stuff and try it out, even if it like felt wrong to me. and to Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: be able to revisit it and be like, Man, maybe I don't want to say that. Maybe that isn't really honoring who I am or what my relationship with God is actually like. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: But also to be able to have especially as someone who loves like I love preaching mostly because I love inspiring people to hear the word of God, to inspire you know, to Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: to call people to a deeper purpose. But I also just love being on the microphone. So yeah, like public Aaron: Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Noah Mata: speaking like it it it gives me life. Like I feel Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: I feel alive. when I'm there. So to be able to do something like stand up comedy and feel alive by saying a bunch of dumb, outlandish things, Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: was really, really special. So I think even that was really cool. Aaron: Hmm. How do how do you navigate the how do you navigate the yeah, the content and like you know, 'cause I guess you're not necessarily speaking to a Christian crowd, right? Like I you know, someone like Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: a like a John Christ. I really love John Christ. I don't know what people think about like, you Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: know, his his comedy, but he's a he's kind of a Christian comic, right? Like Christians are not probably all, but like a lot of the Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: a lot of Christians are going to his shows and, you know, you expect the yeah, he's making some references there. And it's all kind of above quote unquote above board. I there's some stuff that's a little bit like Dicey depending on, you know, your Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: tradition. But yeah, how do you navigate like the content? Like when has it become like what's the line? What's too far? What's not enough? yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah, I think truthfully for me, especially in the open mic space, you hear so many crazy things. And so for me, learning the line was almost craw I I had to cross it. 'Cause it was and Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: and some people don't have to do that, but I think for me I was like, Okay, in order for me to b understand what my line is, I actually have to like take the risk of crossing it. So, you know, the reality is like I and I think this is true of all people of faith, if we're honest enough, right, like there is some stuff Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: that's happened in our lives that you would be horrified to ever share in a public space. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: and so I think for me, the reality is I wasn't horrified to share about some of these things in a public space. So I'm like, all right, let me just try it out and and what was cool was Aaron: Yeah. And who che Noah Mata: being able to say some things and be and being able to say Aaron: I was like, who checks who checks you on that? Noah Mata: some things On on what I say. Aaron: Yeah, like what like you're saying you have to figure out you cross the line. Like who's the one is it just you just double back double checking like thinking about it again and go, I think that's the line or does does is there a Christian like a fellow disciple in the audience or something and goes, I think I was too far or you ask your I don't know, a mentor or something? Like how does that happen? Noah Mata: Yeah, no, that's good. I think mainly a me like me thing, you know, it's like all right, Aaron: Okay, yeah, okay. Noah Mata: like how did you feel about that when you went up there? And Aaron: Got you. Gotcha. Yeah. Noah Mata: usually after a set, like, 'cause I'll I'll I'll do that and I'm like, all right, how did it feel coming out of my mouth? Do I feel like this is conducive to the life that I'm not tr projecting, but it's like the life that I want to live. 'Cause I I think that was the other thing too, is like I Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: can't care about too much what people think about me in the sense of I don't want that to be what controls me. but it is because you Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: know like like the reality is if you're coming to a comedy show you have to know what you're coming into. so I think Aaron: Yes, absolutely. You don't expect yeah. Noah Mata: the rules are different. The rules are absolutely different in a comedy space Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: than it is and I think people really do need to understand that. But At the same time, like there is there are standards in which you got to live by. And I think like for example, you've got like things like Kiltone, which is like if for those of you don't know Kiltoney, Kiltony Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: Tony Hitchcliffe is yeah, like he's he's notorious for being someone who absolutely crosses a line of offensiveness, of like yeah, there's just Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: like no morality clause for him. and yeah, he's a deeply polarizing individual. So for me, I'm like, yeah, because there's rules in that, there also should be kind of that same sensitivity for my faith. so Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: yeah. So I think for me it's like, all right, how do I kind of work through my conviction? So there's there's some sets that I've sent to like some of my buddies who I respect in the faith, and I'm like, hey man, like Aaron: Let me know. Noah Mata: What do you think I should do as far as like is this like is this actually me? Is this and yeah. Aaron: Right, yeah. Noah Mata: And some stuff that's common sense that I'm like, I should not say this. so yeah. but I Aaron: Okay, now that's cool. That's cool to know. Noah Mata: think I love living in the grace of it's a grace space Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: for me to be able to go on the open mic or work it out at a show. You know, I've been really careful not to like you know, name you know, name names and things like that. I think it's a good standard Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: to to live by, but but then again, like comedy too is a is a slight exaggeration of the truth as well. So yeah. And it depends on Aaron: Mm. Yeah. No, that's good. Noah Mata: the kind of comedy that you but I I I do a lot of Aaron: Yeah, that's true too. Noah Mata: personal comedy and like lived experience comedy. So Aaron: Mm. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I think that I think that's what I thought I I really like, especially in the creative space, like art art is it's subjective. Like it it really is subjective. And so different people are gonna have different views on certain things, right? You can talk about I mean, th think about Christians thinking about movies, right? What movies should we watch? What what music should we listen to? Those Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: kinds of things, right? It's like what comedy should we listen to, you know, and and I guess as a yeah. You being a comedian, it's like that's that's it's an expression. And so where's the line on that? I think that is again, I'm not I don't do comedy, but I could imagine it would be, yeah, a conscience a conscience thing, asking you know, thinking about that and yeah, as long as it's staying true to who you are and what you feel God's calling you to do and you feel good about it, then amen. Like amen. And you're getting advice and stuff, so that's cool too. yeah. No, it's great, man. That's great, that's Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah. Aaron: good. Come on, comedy. That's that that sounds like it's So you you keep you'll keep doing it until we'll Like what's your goal with comedy? Is it just keep going and see how you go? Just have it s something you're doing on the side for now? Noah Mata: Yeah, I I think for me it's yeah, it's something that I'm passionate about but it's not my everything. And I think you know, a lot of people utilize comedy for different things, like whether it's you know, it's a part of their career as like a creative, or if, you know, they strictly want to be a stand up comedian. You know, some people Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: do stand up so that they can be a late night talk show hoster. they'll do stand up so that they can, you know, work in movies. So I think for me, stand up functions as like a creative space that can inspire my other creative spaces. so Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and I'm I'm you know, truthfully I'm in the middle of kind of figuring that out 'cause I I love visual experience, I love doing poetry, I love like visual art, I love Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: I still love preaching and I think there Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: are levels of like wisdom that I know I need to have as far as like what I talk about from the comedy space to not I don't want to say disqualify but like discredit me when I preach the word. You know what I mean? So yeah. But Aaron: Yes, yes. Yeah. Noah Mata: again, like I live in the space now where I'm like, look, what you see is what you get. I want to be as the same behind closed doors as I am on stage. So Aaron: Yeah, authentic, yeah. Noah Mata: yeah. And anybody Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: who knows me, you included, like, knows that, yeah, I'm a silly kind of you know, crazy dude Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: that talks about some like stuff that yeah, I'm not I'm not afraid to talk Aaron: That's true. Noah Mata: about the things that would make people feel uncomfortable. but at Aaron: Absolutely. Yeah. Noah Mata: the same time, like I carry depth as well. And that's what's funny is like Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: being a authentic, genuine person in the comedy space can be really challenging 'cause, you know, it's like Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: not everything needs to be a bit, you know. so Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: so I carry both nuanced worlds. So yeah, man. Aaron: That's good. That's good, bro. No, man. Look, there's been there's been a lot we talked about. It's been we're coming up to like two and a bit hours here, bro. or two hours forty, but it's Noah Mata: It's crazy, bro. Aaron: it's been good, bro. But look, we're gonna wrap it up. But I do wanna I'm asking all my guests this question and I've so much appreciated your time. It's been yeah, dude, I just love chatting with you, bro, so it's been sick. Noah Mata: Yeah, man. Aaron: but where do you feel, bro, that God is calling you right now to be reshaped in in this time in your life? Noah Mata: Hm Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, man. I I so I I think so I I I think I mentioned earlier too, I have been really inspired by poetry lately, and specifically with poetry that has wrestled with faith, wrestled with like a calling for something deeper. And there's there's a work that I I recently read by an author named Matthew Zipper who wrote a poetry work called How to Continue. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: And one of the the phrases in the lines and stanzas that he wrote was When I don't understand how to continue, I'll remember the summer and the subsequent summers that follow. And Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: I think for me, where I feel like I'm being called to be reshaped and reformed, if you will, is really honoring my past, like honoring the lessons that Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: I've learned, taking the time to take stock. And not allowing my past to like bring up regrets, but actually my past to bring up gratitude. and that's across the board. I think the memories that you and I share, the memories that you know, and and lessons I've learned from the different things I've been able to do. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: but that key piece, the subsequent summers to follow is is making myself available for future lessons. to always Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: be meldable. and the thing that anchors me is the summer. So I think for me, like Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: the summer represents like the core conviction of my life that where else am I gonna go? Like I'd rather stay, Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: you know, at the summer dock, you know, enjoying Aaron: Hm. Noah Mata: being anchored there to remember like this this this dock, the water that I see in front of me will always remain. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: And I think in many ways that represents Jesus for me, where he is the water, he is the dock, he is the he is the way, he is the the the safe place in which I want to remain. But the seasons will change and the environments Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: around me will change. The boats that appear at the dock will change, the the people that walk on the dock will change. but he Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: won't. So Yeah, I think an honoring of past, gratitude of past, but then an availability and a gratitude for the future. and Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: that Jesus will remain the same yesterday, today and forever, so Aaron: That's so good. Yeah, it's a passage, right? It's Hebrews nine, right? Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and Noah Mata: Mm-hmm. Aaron: forever. And that's that's really I love that man. 'Cause I think, yeah, the past can bring up so many different things for so many different people. but that it can always bring gratitude. I think as a Christian, we are saved. Like we were saved Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: from the from from our past and God brought us out of whatever we were in and He saved us and it's an amazing thing. And yeah, that Jesus He He was there, he's always gonna be there and will always be there. And yeah, honoring the past I really love that. I think honoring the past is good and being available. But you're only gonna really ever be able to just think about it now, you Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: can only really be ready to change if you have something that's stable, right? Like if you have a stable thing that you can hold on to, then you won't fall apart no matter what what no matter what's coming or whatever. But if you don't have that stable thing, then it could all fall it could all fall apart. And so I think, yeah, as Christians that gives us the safety to be reshaped and to honor the past and to learn in the future is because we have Christ, that water that you're talking about. That doesn't that doesn't change. Noah Mata: Yeah, I mean regret only lives when gratitude is absent. And I I think that's just the the reality is like if we Aaron: Mm. That's good. I haven't heard that, yeah. Noah Mata: we we always have a reason to be grateful and no matter the the context Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: of your life and I think that is truly something I yeah I I don't think I would have embraced until now. And I I really see that in my life right now where it's just like, man You know, I don't I never need to live in regret. you know, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: 'cause every day is an opportunity and an invitation for yeah, further gratitude. So which I'm grateful for you, man. Grateful for this time. Aaron: Yeah, man. That's awesome. Bro, dude, I appreciate you so much, bro. This has been well, I two hours forty two hours for fifty forty one minutes here. So it's we'll probably have to chop this up into two episodes. we will for the people. Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: But my brother, it has been yeah, it has been so good to to reconnect and to chat with you, man, and I'm really grateful. I mean, we talked offline last week for two hours and know what's going on, like all the other stuff going on and but I'm grateful I'm grateful how God's working in your life, bro. And I I I'm just wishing you all the best and we're definitely gonna keep keeping touch for sure. For sure. We've got to get you over to Melbourne. So we've got to get you over to Melbourne, bro. get you all the coffee places. Absolutely, Noah Mata: Absolutely, man. Yes, sir. Get my latte art right. Yeah. Aaron: bro. I got got a good local spot right here, so I'm gonna take you to it. But my bro, I appreciate you so much, Noah. thank you for everyone who's watched and listened to this. Hope you got something out of it. Such good stuff that we talked about. and so, Noah, again, my brother, appreciate you, love you a lot to everyone listening. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next one. Pace. Noah Mata: Love you, man. Thank you.