Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 815: Lessons in Filmmaking, Failure, and Persistence with Greg Travis

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IFH 815: Lessons in Filmmaking, Failure, and Persistence with Greg Travis · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network.
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  Speaker 2: For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight fifteen,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Roman Polanski.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: the film biz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
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  Speaker 1: sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
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  Speaker 1: your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today
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  Speaker 1: That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: host Dave Bullis.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: My guest has worked with some of the best directors ever,
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: including David Lynch, Paul Verhoven, and Milo's film Rman. My
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: latest guest latest movie, Excuse Me, is, which in which
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: he directed, was actually shot in ninete eighty four and
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: it's finally being released now. Think about that he started
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: filming this when I was born. It just shows you
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  Speaker 3: have to be in the long haul, it really does.
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  Speaker 3: And that movie Dark seductions will be out October eleventh
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  Speaker 3: on VOD and mo OD with guests Greg Travis. Hey, Gregor,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: thanks off coming on the show.
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  Speaker 4: Buddy, My Pleasure, Day, My pleasure. Anytime I can talk
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  Speaker 4: to a fellow filmmaker, I'm down.
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  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I appreciate it. Greg. You know, I
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: looked at your IMDb. Watch that I knew of you
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: before I looked at your IMDb because I recognize you
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: from a couple of different roles. And you know, before
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I start talking about that and we get in knowledge
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: your you know, your your very lengthy IMDb with some
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: very impressive credits. I just want to start off by
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: asking about your background, and that is I just want
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: to ask how did you get started in the film industry?
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  Speaker 3: You know, did you always want to act when you
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: were a kid. You know, so it's pretty much I
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  Speaker 3: just want to know, is you know how did you
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: get started?
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  Speaker 4: Well, I was in high school. I got a Super
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: eight camera, started using my dad's home movie camera, and
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: then I got one of the sound cameras, and so
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  Speaker 4: I started making these little short Super eight films my
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: junior year and then my high school year I actually
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: made a feature link Super eight movie called Joe Dynamite,
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  Speaker 4: and I showed it at the High school theater and
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: I was able to get to the theater for free,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, work things out to where I actually
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: made my money back and actually made a little profit
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  Speaker 4: on the whole venture. And I thought, Wow, this is easy.
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  Speaker 4: I can do this. Little did I know what I
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  Speaker 4: was in for. You know. Then I came out to
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  Speaker 4: Hollywood and went to film school. And while I was
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: going to film school, I started auditioning at the comedy
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  Speaker 4: clubs and then kind of got a stand up career
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  Speaker 4: going and got a few TV shows and started working
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  Speaker 4: the clubs and I did that for about twenty years,
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  Speaker 4: and then I moved into the acting direction in the
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  Speaker 4: mid nineties and got a few big movies and then
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  Speaker 4: that kind of helped launch my acting career and did
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  Speaker 4: about forty five films in the last fifteen years or so.
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  Speaker 4: And now I'm on my third act and trying to
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  Speaker 4: get back to what I originally wanted to do here,
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  Speaker 4: which was be a director and a filmmaker. And you know,
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  Speaker 4: I mean I've written all these years, and I've made
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  Speaker 4: a lot of shorts all these years. But in the
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  Speaker 4: last eight or nine years, I've really tried to focus
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  Speaker 4: in and you know, make some movies. So I've got
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  Speaker 4: three features, Night Creep, Midlife, and now Dark Seduction that
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: are finished features and that are getting out there. And
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  Speaker 4: Dark Seduction is being released October eleventh on VOD North America,
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  Speaker 4: VOD and pay per view, And so I'm super excited
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  Speaker 4: about that because it took me about thirty years to
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  Speaker 4: complete that movie, which I'm not bragging about. It's kind
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: of embarrassing, to be honest with you, because it should
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: have been finished, you know, at least twenty years ago.
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  Speaker 4: But I ran up into I ran into a lot
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  Speaker 4: of obstacles and a lot of problems with this particular
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  Speaker 4: film that you know, stopped me from finishing it. Every
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  Speaker 4: time I would go back to try to finish it,
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  Speaker 4: something horrific would happen and just stop me in my tracks.
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  Speaker 4: Or sometimes I'd run out of money and I'd have
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  Speaker 4: to you know, regroup, you know. So it seemed to
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  Speaker 4: be an ongoing pattern in the process of the whole
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  Speaker 4: post production thing. But you know, it's one of those
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  Speaker 4: things you just, you know, you try what you can.
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  Speaker 4: And then when I got back to it the final time,
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  Speaker 4: I was able to get everything back and finally finish
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  Speaker 4: it up. So I'm really happy about that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Greg, I understand completely where you're coming
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  Speaker 3: from about projects, you know, stalling out and having issues.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I've been there before, you know, whether you
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: know it's it's you know, different you know, personalities, uh,
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  Speaker 3: you know, not agreeing on set, or different producers you know,
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: not agreeing, uh you know, or or even you know
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: sometimes I mean, for instance, Greg, I had one time,
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  Speaker 3: I had an editor who every time I asked to
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: see a kind of the movie, he would say, oh, yeah,
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: you know, it's don't going well you listen to that,
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  Speaker 3: And I say, well, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna come
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  Speaker 3: up and see a cut of it. And he would
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  Speaker 3: always have an excuse, and finally he, you know, he
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  Speaker 3: has to admit. He's like, listen, I have been working
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  Speaker 3: on it at all. I'm and he's like, you know,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. He goes, yeah, So I I understand completely
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  Speaker 3: what you mean. But you know, I do want to
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: talk more about Dark Seduction, but you know I would
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: be you know, I again, you have such an extensive
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: IMDb resume. I just want to sort of take a
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: step back and talk about some of your credits. I mean,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: you have worked with some of the best directors you know,
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: not only going today, but some of the directors that
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: have you ever ever lived. I mean, you've worked with
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: David Lynch, Paul Vehoven, You've worked with bobcat Goldthwaite, You've
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: Bob Rasselson, who did.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Five Easy Pieces, a lot of Jack Nicholson films. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: that was a thrill to work with him. And a
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: Milosh Foreman who did the Andy Kaufman movie Man on
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  Speaker 4: the Moon, And Yeah, I was lucky in the fact
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  Speaker 4: that of being a filmmaker and an actor, I had
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: studied films all of my life and was a huge
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: movie goer when I was a kid. So I had
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: seen just about everything any of all these guys had done,
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: especially when it came out on video. I rented everything,
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: and my friend in New York had a video store,
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: so I could watch anything that was available. And so,
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  Speaker 4: you know, I've always studied film and always loved it.
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  Speaker 4: And so when I would meet these directors and go
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: in for the final audition, I would start talking to
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: him about their obscure movie, the one movie that no
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  Speaker 4: one knew about. That's the one I would talk to
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: them about.
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  Speaker 3: And they love.
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  Speaker 4: That, you know, they absolutely love that because like they
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: don't get a chance to discuss it. So it was like,
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  Speaker 4: you know, kind of the inside scoop on some of
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  Speaker 4: their obscure films I would like talk to them about,
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  Speaker 4: you know. But David was great. I didn't really have
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: too much to say. He was in the middle of
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  Speaker 4: shooting and the cast character brought me over to him,
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: and you know, he just said, great, you're right, this
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  Speaker 4: is great, you look great, and it'll be perfect, and
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  Speaker 4: so that was about it. So you know, I got
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  Speaker 4: lucky on that one. And he was a whole lot
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  Speaker 4: of fun to work with. He's really detailed oriented. He
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  Speaker 4: put the blood on my face himself, and he you know,
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  Speaker 4: he was like really had ideas about every little movement
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  Speaker 4: and every little thing, and it was all very well
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  Speaker 4: planned out and very well thought out. You know, he
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: knew what he wanted, and you know, you never know
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  Speaker 4: exactly what you want. I mean, you got an idea
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: con set to the scene and how it should go,
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: and you try to explain it to the actors and
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: then you just hope for the best. And that's basically
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: what every director does, and then you tweak it as
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: you go along. He said, well, maybe you don't, you know,
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: you don't scream it that much here. Maybe you bring
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: it down a little bit there. Maybe you don't hit
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: him with the gun there. You know that kind of thing,
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: So, but.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've always been As a matter of fact, the
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: eraser Head was kind of the first midnight movie that
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: I saw when I came out here, and it just
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: disturb disturbed me to no end. I just didn't quite
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: understand it, but I felt I mean, it felt it.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: I felt there was something really going on here, but
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: I didn't quite you know, I didn't understand what was happening,
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: but it it moved me. I'll put it that way.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny because I took somebody to see
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: Lost Highway and he had never seen it before.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
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  Speaker 3: And when he left the theater, he goes, you know,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Davey goes that movie. I'm not sure what was happening,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: but he goes, I'm very interested, and he said, you know,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: a couple of days later on he texted me and
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: he goes. You know, I'm still thinking about Lost Highway.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had some really fun stuff in it,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: and some really creepy stuff too. You know. I always
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: thought as if it as a revenge dream, you know,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: by the Bill Pullman character, and you know, that's sort
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: of I think what it was. You know, he becomes
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: this young guy in his dream and gets revenge on
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: the older guys who messed him up with his girlfriend,
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: you know, or his wife. So at least that's kind
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: of the way I take it. And then he did
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: that same sort of thing and in his next movie
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: it was going to be the TV show that got
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: so many awards, what the hell's the name of it. Yeah,
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: he did the same kind of thing, only with women.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: It was the same sort of like switching characters and
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: you know, becoming another person kind of a thing.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, I know exactly what I mean. It's
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: funny because now he you know, when we saw him,
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: when when he he you know, he was actually there
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: and he introduced twin or sorry, he introduced the Lost
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Highway and he said and people were asking, are you
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: working on anything else? And he said no. That about
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: a couple of days later, he announces that he's back
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: with Twin Peaks season three on Showtime. Oh yeah, it
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: was just uh. I was like, wow, if he had
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: only you know, but uh, but it was just amazing.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I've just a funny little story real quick. I actually
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: tried to get him on for one hundredth episode on
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: this podcast, and I actually missed him by a couple
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: of I guess maybe a couple of days. His his
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: manager actually said that he's off shooting. Uh, he's in
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: three or Twin Peaks, and he's like, you know, he's
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: all he's doing right now. So maybe when he comes back.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: But I was like, you know, I mean that guy,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's just you know, phenomenal. I mean, but
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: you know, so I wanted to ask Greg, is you know,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: when you're working with somebody you know like Lynch, or
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: you're working with somebody like Paul Vhoven, you know, what
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: are some of the biggest takeaways that you think you've had.
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  Speaker 3: Do you think there's something that there's there's like one
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  Speaker 3: constant that you know, sort of maybe strength that all
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: these directors share that makes them, you know, who they are.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: Well, they all have a kind of definite look that
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: they're trying to achieve with the film itself, the way
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: they shoot it, the way they you know, are going
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: to cut it. The hardest thing I think for any
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: director is to get a mood, a certain type of
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: tone that can carry through the throughout the film. I
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: think David Lynz that's one of his strengths. He really
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: knows how to set a tone, a dark, ominous kind
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: of creepy tone to the thing and keep that, you know.
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  Speaker 4: I mean it's not constantly throughout the film, but it's
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: still there. And well, he's really great at that. And
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: every other director has their strength, Like Veroven is a
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: kind of a very strong, just in your face imagery
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: that just really sticks with you and really hits you
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: in the chest, you know, very entertaining, very fun and
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: just keeps coming at you, you know. And I love
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: that kind of stuff. I love, you know, strong imagery
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: and strong choices. And you know, as an actor, when
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: you work with these kind of guys, you just have
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: to kind of like go with your confidence and come
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: in with the strongest ideas that you can think of
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: and just you know, know that that's right, and not
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: worry about exactly what you think they want. But within
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: the script and with what you think it needs, that's
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: what you give them, and they'll, you know, if it's
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: not what they want or if they want to tweak it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: But most of the time they really liked what I did,
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: and uh, they were very happy with it. So I
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: was really lucky to be able to work with those guys.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, you know, Greg, that was actually gonna
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: be My next question was, you know, as an actor,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: you know, you know what what is sort of like
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: you know what you're you're bringing. You know, obviously you're
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: bringing you know, your own unique skills and talents to
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: the role. And you know they you know, they're they're
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: directing you obviously in this in this particular role. And
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: so one of my question was is what are some
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: of the biggest takeaways that they that they when you're
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: working with them, that that you have used in your
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: own projects, you know, sort of like something that you've
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: learned from you know, Zack Snyder or Vhoven, you know
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: that you and Rob Zombie, you know, something that you've
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: taken and sort of put into your own films.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: They all do different things, like Zack Snyder does various
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: speed takes where he'll do a shot, you know, twenty times,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: and he'll do it a little bit differently each time,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: and I think that's kind of interesting. I haven't been
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: able to use that exactly, but I liked the idea
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: of doing it a little different each time instead of
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: trying to do it the same wage time. He does
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: it a little differently each time. And I think I've
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: heard that Ridley Scott does that same kind of thing.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: He'll move the camera an inch or two over with
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: each progressive take so that he gets a little bit
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: different angle and a little bit different look, you know,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: And I thought that's pretty pretty cool.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: You know. The film.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: The last film that I, you know, shot and put
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: out there was Midlife, which was a very Cassavetti's type
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: of a look. I shot at long lens and then
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: the wide shots were like a forty millimeter or so.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: It was kind of a wide and that's what I
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: was going for, was a very I kind of very
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: realistic Cassavetti's type of look. And so that's kind of
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: what I was trying to capture. And so I would
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: go back and study all of his films and see
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: what he was doing exactly, and they're all a little different,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: and they're all shot a little different. There is no
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: one Cassavetti's look, but he does do long lens close
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: ups and pretty tight close ups when he does them,
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: And so I use that technique, and you know, you
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: just learned, You just pick up different directorial techniques from
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: working with all these different directors and then also what
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: you know, working as a director for many many meaning
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: short films and theater and all kinds of different things
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: in my own shows and stand up, because in stand
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: up you're really directing yourself, you know, I mean you're
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: really sort of like jumping out of your skin and saying, well,
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: this look like and what would that look like? And
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: you kind of have to have a second nature about
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: what would make an audience laugh or what would make
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: an audience And you develop those skills as you go along.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: And I think that I've been able to do that,
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: and now I'm ready to really apply all that knowledge
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: to making movies. You know.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that's a good point, Greg, And you
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: know that's actually what I wanted to sort of segue
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: into right now, was, uh, you know, just looking at
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: your IMDb page, you know you've you've written five pieces
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: and you know you've directed four and I just want
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: to ask you know, your first you know IMDb credit,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: you know that you have is Night Creep, And I
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: want to ask you know you made this in two
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: thousand and three. It was also written by you, So
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: I wanted to ask Greg. You you've said in the
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: intro that you know you want to sort of want
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: to go back to this because this is why you
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: you got into this was you wanted to make your
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: own films, right? So was it was it the right
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: sort of time and place, so to speak to make
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: Night Creep? And what I mean by that is, did
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: you you sort of have the like a sort of
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: like a small window or maybe an opportunity.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: At that point, I'd hooked up with this, you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: this guy who's gonna invest in it and who's gonna, you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: put the money. And so I wrote a pretty I
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: wrote a script. It was what I thought was pretty commercial,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: and actually it wasn't very commercial at all. But I
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: was kind of wrote a psychological horror film in a
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: very kind of Lynchian David Lynchian kind of way, to
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: where we don't really know what's going on half the
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: movie and we're waiting to find out. But at least
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: in my movie, I do let the cat out of
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: the bag at the end of the film, and I
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: do explain somewhat what was happening, even though there's a
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: few things left in the air, as oppose to David Lynch,
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: who doesn't ever explain anything, and you're just like left
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: walking out of the theater and what the fuck was
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: that all about? But you know, you have to study
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: his films and then you know, kind of come to
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: some conclusions on your own. But that's what makes some fun,
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: you know. But yeah, I just had I had a
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: winner of opportunity, and then of course that investor pulled
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: out at the last minute, and then I had to
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: scory around with some of my own money, and so
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: a few other people that I knew put a little
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: money into it, and then we were able to kind
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: of pull it together and do it. But you know,
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: I had made Dark Seduction back in the mid eighties,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: and I actually felt really really confident at that time
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: because I'd been doing a lot of shorts leading up
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: to that, and I had a very specific look. And
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: the partner that I was working with shot at and
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: he understood what we were going for, and so the
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: look of Dark Seduction I was pretty much satisfied with.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot you could go back and say, well,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: I could have done this, I could have done that,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: but I, for the most part, I got what I
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: was trying to get, you know, and there's always things
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: you could have done better. And some of the shots
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: we did were out of focus and didn't come out,
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: which was a shame, but you just, you know, you
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: work with what you got.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: And so then all of that time I would go,
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: you know, be thinking that I was going to come
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: back and finish Dark Seduction, and then after that that
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: would lead to another film. So when I made Night Creep,
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: I had just gotten to the place where I just
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: had to do something else and it couldn't depend on,
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: you know, finishing Dark Seduction for that one, I just
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: had to you know, start from scratch and do something new.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: And so it has some of the similar themes running
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: through it. There's some lesbianism and there's some you know
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: kind of like creepiness that's similar to Dark Seduction in
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: a way, but it's not about vampires or anything. It's
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: about a creepy landlord that comes into the squirrel's room
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: at night while she's sleeping, and we don't know if
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: it's a dream or if it's reality, or exactly what's
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: going on because she takes a drug and so we
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: think the night creep drug might be causing her to
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: have these hallucinations, and so that's part of the plot.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: But it can out pretty good. It's a lot of fun,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: you know, but Dark Seduction is the one that really
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: everybody seems to be responding to. The premiere was a
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: huge success, and the audience loved it, and everybody's really
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: really excited about it, and you know, they really really
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: like it. So it's kind of a weird hybrid of
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: a nineteen forties detective film and an eighties lesbian vampire film.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: And we're not sure if the vampires are really vampires
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: or if they're just badass chicks that think they're vampires
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: and go around doing these things, and so there's that
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: mystery and there's that angle of it, and you know,
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: it's just a really odd, kind of weird, little cool
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: cult movie that you know, took me forever to finish,
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: but I'm glad I did because the technology has gotten
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: so much better now. It made it so much. It's
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: now it's much slicker, and the sound and the music
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: and everything about it is much better now, having finished
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: it this past year than it would have been if
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: I would have finished it twenty years ago or thirty
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: years ago. You know.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that, Greg, That was actually what I
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: was going to ask you also, was you know, since
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: you started making that in the eighties, you know, like
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: you said, you started that in the eighties. You know,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: the camera technology has you know, just you know, gone
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: through so many evolutions. You know, you know now you
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: can you can go out now, and you know, our
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: phone is a camera. And now also you know, there's
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: cameras out that cost as much as the house, you know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: and you know, it's amazing this this amount of technology.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: So I wanted to ask, you know, did did you,
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: you know, use any of the of the new cameras
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: section Is it sort of put to maybe shoot some
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: new scenes or no?
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: Now, I shot everything we shot I did in eighty
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: four and eighty five on sixteen milimeters black and white,
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: and when I did a two K transfer from the negative,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: it really really I mean it's a little grainy. I
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: mean it's you know, it's grainy in certain areas, but
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: it really looks fantastic. The two K transfer just brought
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: out all the imagery and brought out all the little details,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: and I couldn't have asked for a better quality, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: print of it. It's much better than if I'd have
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: made a film print because we have more control with
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: the digital transfer, you know, and it is sharper than
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: a film print. I mean, it is a little bit sharper,
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: So I got everything, you know, And unfortunately, the negative
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: have been setting around for a long time, so even
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: though they cleaned it a couple of times and we
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: had it sonically cleaned, there's still a little us here
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: and there that was embedded in the negative. So, you know,
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: it gives it kind of an old you know, TCM,
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: you know, a little bit of an old quality that
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: you know, kind of makes it even cooler, you know.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, nobody's complained about the little specks that are
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: on a few of the scenes or you know that
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: pop up from time to time, but it kind of
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: gives it an old feel to it, which is kind
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: of neat too, you know.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Greg, when I I think I either
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: I saw still I believe watched the trailer. Also, it
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: kind of reminds me of Dark City in a way
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: because you said it was like a nineteen forties, you know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: detective House with the nineteen eighties, it reminds me. I
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: don't if you've ever seen the film Dark City, but
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: in a way it reminds me a little bit of
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: that film. Was that a color? Belm though?
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: Was Dark City a color like the Canadian film?
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah? It was I think Valkilmer or no if I
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: was about Koma, but I'm I forget actually who.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Was in ITAs and it was in a lot of
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: strip joint scenes. He was like a bouncer and a
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: strip joint or something. Was that the one you're talking
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: about Dark City?
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was by It was directed by Alex pro
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: pro Vadis round Huh.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: Child, there might be one I'm confusing it with, but yeah,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: it's it's it's definitely a dark and war you know,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: and uh, That's kind of what I'm going for with this.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: You know that that forties in war that like had
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: the tough, you know, square jaw detective that was drinking
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: and smoking all the way through the film, I kind
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: of a Bogart type character, but a little bit more,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: a little bit more tougher and bigger, and you know,
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: able to take a little bit more punishment than even Bogart.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: So I found this actor comedian named Tyler Horn who
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: was perfect for the role, and so I just didn't
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: even have a casting session. I just asked him if
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: he wanted to do it, because I knew he'd be
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: great in it. And he really is funny, he's he's
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: quite a the perfect kind of dick tracy looking character.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: So it worked out really well.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: So Greg, you know, coming from an acting background, do
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: you do you feel that you know that was sort
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: of like sort of your unfair advantage because that was
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: your biggest strength because you you know, you've worked with
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: all these directors. You also yourself, phons are an actor,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: so you're able to sort of, you know, talk to
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: these actors, maybe you want to stand them in a
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: different way that maybe most directors don't.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: You know, if you know what I mean, Well, it's
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: you know, part of it is the casting of the actor.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: And then you know, sometimes you get into a situation
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: where you know you've got really good improv actors, and
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: you would be an idiot not to let them improvise.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: And some directors are not, you know, savvy to that.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: They they want to stick to the script verbatim, and
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: they don't know when to expand their idea and to
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: take advantage of a talented improvise, a talented actor who
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: can improvise. And even if you don't use it in
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: the film, sometimes you just go you just let it
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: happen and you like play with the ideas. And I
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: think improvisation is a really good technique because you've got
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: the idea in the script, you know where you're going
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: with it. You know, let them play with the lines
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: a little bit. As long as the information you need
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: to drive the plot is in there, then you can, like,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: you know, you can go off script a little bit
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: and play with the ideas and you never know, you
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: might just use one of those lines in the editing,
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: or you might use a couple of little of those bits,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: And a lot of times it's better than what you
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: had in mind in the script because you can't always
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: imagine it until you get there. And then when you
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: get there and you see what you've got to work with,
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: go ahead, and work with it, go ahead and expand
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: the idea, you know, and explore it a little bit.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think that's the key to really good
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: filmmaking is to explore the ideas once you get there,
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I concurrk Greg. You know, the more I study
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: in the more where you know, I apply these things,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: the more I find, especially in my writing. You know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: the more you expand and explore and stay curious about
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: these ideas, you know, the more they're able to flow.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's you know, it's tricky because I did
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: a lot of improv in Midlife, and the first cut
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: of it was like two and a half hours long,
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: and I thought, you know, that was a pretty good cut,
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: but I was wrong. I ended up taking like forty
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: minutes out of it and kept whittling it down until
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: I got it where it was, at its basic essence,
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: and it was just what I needed, but not too much.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: It was just enough to tell the story. And that's
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: what you try to go for, is just the essence
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: of what you need to tell the story.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: You know, people like.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of directors who get a
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: little indulgent, and I think the big trick is not
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: to let the line of tension go. You know, that's
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: the most important thing in a film. If you look
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: at all the classics and all the orson Welles films,
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: he was very adamant about keeping the line of tension
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: in there, you know, which is driving the story, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: also keeping the audience interested as to what's going to
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: happen at the end of this story, what's going to
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: happen to these characters. You know. But when you lose
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: that and you veer off and you go into different
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: places for a long period of time that don't have
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: anything to do with the story, it can really derail
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: the train, you know, it can really throw you off
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: and can throw your audience off. So you really have
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: to keep that in mind. The line of tension, I
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: think is the most important thing. You know, whether it's
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: a comedy or a drama or whatever kind of movie
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: you're making, you really want to keep the audience interested
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: in what's going to happen at the end.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: You know, we'll be right back after a word from
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: our sponsor, and now back to the show.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was listening to an artic interview by Lawrence Block,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: who did a walk among the Tombstones. He wrote that,
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: and he was, you know, saying the same thing about,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: you know, having that tension in there because you don't
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: want audiences going in going, well, hey, I know this
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: guy is not gonna die because you know, you know,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: so of because of you know, X, Y and Z,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: and I know this thing's gonna happen, you know what
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: I mean. And I think that's where you know, I
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: think a lot of people sort of you know, because
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: people who usually you know, go to movies, you know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: they've seen other movies before in the same genre, you
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, They've seen you know, action movies.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: That's why when a Diehard comes around, it just blows
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: people out of the water because they're going, holy crap,
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: you know this is this guy's this John McClain. He's bleeding,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: he doesn't know what's going on. He's injured, he doesn't
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: you know, he's not just walking in the room with
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: a machine gun clearing up the whole room, right, you know.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: They really he really had to you know, dissect what
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: was going on and do this sort of very very
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: you know, cerebrally that's human words, cerebrally, but you know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: he had to go in there and you know, sort
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: of deduce, you know, and sort of use a surgeon
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: scalpel and then you know, that's why I think, you know,
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Diehard is such a you know, a unique movie.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: It's own, right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean when it
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: came out, it was just he was outnumbered and the situation,
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: the conflict of the situation was fresh and new. Uh,
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: you know, we hadn't seen anything like that, you know,
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: in a building where you're stuck in the call spaces
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: and you've got to maneuver your way and try to
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: find a way to get rid of these guys. And yeah,
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: it was a great little scripted piece, you know, and
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: it was very well executed in the direction too, because
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: the other cops didn't know what was going on and
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: they weren't taking it seriously. And you know, these guys
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: were We knew as an audience, remember, these guys are
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: super bad and you better take them seriously. Are you're
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: going to get your in for a big surprise, And
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: so we knew that as an audience, but you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: within the film, they didn't know that, and so that
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: was kind of an interesting angle on it as well.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: And there's also those kind of things as an audience,
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: you tell the audience certain things, but the characters don't know.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: Like in Dark Seduction, we know as an audience how
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: we got bit, but he doesn't figure it out until
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: well into the film, you know, because he just can't
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: remember and it's not clear to him and he's not
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: sure what's going on.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: But it's a comedy, I mean, it's a it's more
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: of a comedy parody of a nineteen forties detective film
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: than it is anything else. But I tried to make
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: it its own unique movie by combining it with an
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: eighties vampire field. So it's like a time shift, if
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: that makes any sense. There's like two different time periods
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: going on at the same time. So it's kind of
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: weird that way.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: You know. Well, you know, Greg, I know as you
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: talk about dar Dark Seduction, you know, I want to
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: ask you know your writing style, you know, and your
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: writing process. You know, So when you're going to sit
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: down and you know, whether you use a notebook or
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: whether you you know, write this on a computer, I
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: want to ask you know, what what what is your process?
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, do you sort of already you know, have
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: you I'm sure you already have an idea in mind,
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: but do you outline it heavily or do you just
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: you know, sort of let it flow nationally.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when I'm writing a feature, I do a three
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: act outline, and I try to outline each scene with
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: a number, and I go through the whole thing and
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: try to get an outline, because when you're when you're
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: scripting it, if you can at least put a few
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: lines of dialogue in that paragraph that you've outlined that
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: scene with, it gives you a jumping off place and
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: you know where you're going next. And then, of course
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: you change things as you go along, and not all outlines,
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: not all scenes in the outline are going to make
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: it into the script, and then you come up with
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: new stuff as you go along too, but at least
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: it gives you sort of a place to start with.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: And I just sort a little short film and I
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: just kind of, you know, did it in a week
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: and just kind of chipped away at it, like a
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: page page and a half a day until I got
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: it all done, like you know, thirteen fourteen pages, and
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: then I sent it to some few people, got some feedback,
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: did another draft of it, and now I think it's
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: in pretty good shape, and so I think, you know,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: you think about these things for a while. You kind
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: of like get a beginning, a middle, and an end
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: and think about, you know, okay, you need this scene,
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: you need that scene. And I didn't outline that particular
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: short film. I just actually just scripted it from just
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: what I had in mind. So it's a little different
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: with each project, but I think on a full feature,
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: it's really good to do a detailed outline of the
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: whole thing first. And I learned that from working with
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: I used to write with Rick Overton. We were writing
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: partners back in the eighties. We wrote some scripts for
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: studios and a bunch of screenplays for Independence and whatnot.
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: And I learned that technique from James Keach and Brian Grazer,
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: who were the producers who were working with in the
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: early days. And so that's one of the things they
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: liked to do. And I think it works pretty well,
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: you know, yeah, it's.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Worked pretty well for especially Brian Grazer, right.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, it just gives you an overview of the movie.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: It's like, oh, okay, now I can kind of see
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: what kind of movie where you know, we're trying to
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: do here, before you write the script, you kind of
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: have an idea of how it's all going to go down.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: And a lot of writers say they just jump right
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: into it and they just write right right and they
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: don't even worry about the three act structure, but their
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: scripts definitely fall short and kind of fall flat because
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: of that. I've wrote a ton of scripts, and you know,
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: if you don't have that three act structure in there,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: it's it's really can be quite problematic. You know, not
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: that everything has to have that or that it should
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: have that. I mean with Midlife, the three act structure
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: was sort of hidden and it was not exactly the
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: way it should be, but it was still there. You know,
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: it was still there, And I think that's a good
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: thing to have consciously when you approach an idea, because
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: if it's not there, you're really on shaky ground. You're
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: on shaky territory. And by that three X structure, I
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: mean like certain things have to happen to your lead character,
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: you know, certain beats and certain things obstacles, and the
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: conflict has to increase, and you know all those types
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: of things that are script structure.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, and you know that's something I've
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: talked to before, especially with Alan Watts from Only Raider's Lab.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: You know, we talked about, you know, what the three
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: act structure is supposed to be, and you know, even
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: even the different systems that you've seen like Save the Cat.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: You know, really what they're trying to do is you know,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: not only is it trying to guide the transformation, but
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: it's also you know, trying to just make sure that
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: you're always amping it up. Yeah, so that way, you know,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: you don't sort of you know, on page fifteen, you know,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: you have some kind of climax, and the rest of
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: the movie you just sort of, you know, just meandering.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: It's sort of right, you know, just trying to give
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: you like a blueprint where to go right, and he's an.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: Expert at that, much more than I am. But the
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: upping the andy on the conflict is an important element
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: to keep in there so that the stakes get higher
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: as you go along, you know, so absolutely, and that
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: can apply to any kind of story, you know, whether
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: you're doing something about a little kid or you know,
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: whatever it is, the stakes keep getting higher and the
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: conflict keeps getting more and more intense, you know. So
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: that's what keeps the line of tension in place and
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: keeps the audience wondering what's going to happen next? Oh
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: my god, you know, you can't get any worse, you know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: especially in horror movies, that's a very prevalent technique to use,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: you know, when the girl's trapped in a castle and
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: she just keeps one bad thing happens after another, and
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: you know, what's you know, what's the next bad thing
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: that's going to happen. You know, it's like a horrific
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: thing that's going to happen. It just keeps getting worse
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: and worse. But yeah, yeah, so you know, knowing all
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: of this, you know, and learning all of these things
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: throughout the years as both a writer, actor and a filmmaker,
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: it's just gives you more ammunition, gives you more confidence
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: going into a project. And you know, films are tricky propositions.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: You know, they're just not a guarantee that they're going
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: to work, even if you have a good script, even
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: if you you know, have just thought about it and
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: you've got it all worked out and you shoot it perfectly.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, when people went to see The Shining, they
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: were walking out on it. They didn't like it. You know,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: it wasn't like the book. Everybody was expecting, you know,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: Stanley to do the book and he didn't, and it
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: just kind of, you know, it didn't really shock you
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: or scare you that much. You've had a few scares
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: in it, but not really that gary. But it took
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: years for that film to sort of find its audience
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: and find its place in the horror world. And now
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: it's considered to be one of the best horror movies
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: ever made. But believe me, when it came out in
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: nineteen eighty, nobody knew what to make of it. They
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: were just like, oh, that was weird, you know, they
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: didn't know how great it was in other words, is
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: what I'm trying to say. And a lot of his
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: movies are like that. They take time to kind of
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: find their audience and to kind of become, you know,
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: as great as they really are. But I don't know
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: how he was able to do that, but somehow he was.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: Films are weird. I mean, you don't always get it
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: the first viewing, you know, and then there's all different ways.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: If you viewed something by yourself on television, it doesn't
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: always hit you. But when you see it with an
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: audience in a theater, Oh my god, it becomes a
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: whole different thing.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean with that,
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: because you know, I've had that happen to me with
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: the certain movies.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: You know, it's sort of like the shared the shared
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: experience in a theater and then you know, you try
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: to watch it at home later on, you like it
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: didn't hit the same way, or even vice versa. You know,
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: it's just very it's very interesting. And even David Lynch
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: had said something about this, he said, you know, don't
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: watch movies on your phone. Yeah, he just I don't
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: know why people are trying to watch movies on their phone.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a certain mood, it's
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: a certain excitement that goes along with seeing it on
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: the big screen. You can see everything that the movie
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: has to offer on the big screen, and it's the
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: shared experience that makes it much more elevated and much
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: more of an experience altogether. And yeah, I was real
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: tickled being able to show some of my films to
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: a full packed theater and see the true reactions, and
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: it's amazing. You know, some of the things that I've
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: seen a thousand times and didn't think we're that funny
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: get big laughs and you're just going, what was that
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: all about? I didn't think that would get a laugh,
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: but it does. You just never know, you just never
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: know about you know, certain things in your own movie
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: that you think, you don't even think about them, you know,
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden people are reacting to it,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: and it's just amazing, you know, and just constantly surprising.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, very true. You know, it's you know,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of these things are going to become very subjective,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: you know, they sort of you know, something's hit, some
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: things don't later on, and then vice versa.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: And the problem with sending your movie to a distributor
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: online on a file is like, you know, how is
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: this guy going to watch this thing? Is he going
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: to watch it while he's you know, on his laptop
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: on the bus on the way home. Is he going
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: to watch it on his phone? Or is he going
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: to put it on the big screen when he gets
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: home and sit back with some friends and watch it.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: You know, I mean, they say they you know they
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: I don't think anybody can really watch a film by
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: themselves on a small device and really have a good
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: response to it. You know, nothing looks as good on
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: a small device by yourself. I don't care who you are.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: You know, you're not going to respond to it as
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: much as if you say it with a few other people,
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: because you're you're focusing more on the movie or watching
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: the movie with other people in the room than you
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: are by yourself. You get distracted, you put it down,
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: you stop it for a while. That's not the way
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: a movie is supposed to be. It's a book, it's
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: a it's a one thing. It's a one time. You
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: got to go from A to Z with it, you.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Know, yeah, yeah, And I want to ask, you know,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: since the you know, your movie Dark Suction comes out
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: today as you know, this podcast is being released. You know, Greg,
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: where can people find Dark Seduction?
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: It is going to be on pay per view movie
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: on demand. You can order the BVD on Amazon. I
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: think it's going to be on iTunes and all of
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: the pay per view cable outlets in North America and
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: and just you know, look it up online. Dark Seduction
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: pay per view or Dark Seduction, VOD video on demand
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: in your area. So it's going to be on cable
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: outlets and video on demand outlets, and that's about all
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: I can tell you. I mean, it's going to be
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: on so many of them. I don't know all the listings,
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: you know, but it should be available you know, Amazon,
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: iTunes and all the cable pay per views, so we'll
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: should be able to find it pretty easily.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: And for everyone listening, I'm gonna make sure a link
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: to that in the show notes as soon as I
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: can find a you know, the where I can so
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: sort of send you to, like maybe even Amazon or
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: even an Xbox or all of them. So that way,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: I'll put a few links in the show notes. So good,
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: you know, Greg great. You know, as we're talking, I
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: have some Twitter questions that came in. Would you mind
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: answering one or two?
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: My first question is what do you recommend for a
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: first time filmmaker in directing actors?
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: That seems to be a tough thing. I think first
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: time director might do himself a big favor by maybe
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: taking an acting class guys that are coming more from
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: a script or an editing position, and then moving up
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: to directing their own things. Might consider taking an acting
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: class just to get an idea of watching the teacher
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: direct actors and watching the actors work out a scene
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: and rehearse a scene and how it's all supposed to
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: go down, because in actuality, there's a camera rehearsal with
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: the actor's rehearsal. Sometimes there's a couple of actors rehearsals
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: before the camera comes in so that you can kind
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: of find the choreography and find the way you want
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: to do it. And then the camera guy comes in
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: and starts seeing how he can shoot the scene along
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: with the actors rehearsing it, and then you break for
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: makeup and touch ups and whatever else you need to do,
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: and then you come back and you're ready to go,
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: and then you shoot it. But you know, reading books
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: about acting, and it's a little overcomplicated. I mean, there's
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: this whole methodology that you know, there's different branches of
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: the method and all of that is well and good,
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: but that's usually the actors responsibility to take that on
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: and learn that and use that as his own technique
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: and part of his craft to get where he needs
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: to be for an imaginary scene. You know, and so
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: directing actors in that, you know, if they need a
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: little time to cry, if they need a little time
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: to get into a certain headspace, an intensity or something,
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: you give them that time as long as it's not
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: too long a time, give them a little, you know,
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: a minute or so to to do what they need
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: to do to get there, and you're better served. Sometimes
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: that's what it is. Sometimes sometimes actors are you know,
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: in character, and they stay in character, and so there's
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: that to consider. Sometimes they're in a certain mood that
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: will help them create the character and the mood that
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: they're trying to achieve, and so you can't you kind
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: of have to kind of watch out for that sometimes,
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: and you know, and then some actors, you know, just
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: drop it the minute the uo cut and they're themselves again,
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: and then they jump back into character, you know, when
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: the cameras roll. So there's all kinds of different ways
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: that actors approach it, and you just have to be
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: aware of all of that as a director. But basically,
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: you know, you've got to know when somebody hits a
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: sour note, and if the line reading is not very good,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: you really have to be able to tell that and
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: tell the actor, how you want to adjust it. Not
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: doing a line you reading for the actor, but go
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: let's try that a little quicker, or try it a
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: little different way. It just seemed kind of falling. It
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: didn't sound real, or you know, something to that nature
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: where they you know, they get an idea, but you're
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: not insulting in them at the same time because you
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: want to be really nice to your actors. You don't
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: want to be mean to them at all, because then
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: they get upset and they get nervous and they don't
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: perform as well. Yeah.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, just one thing that someone who
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: wants told me to it really helped me out when
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: I was, you know, making my student film was and
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: it's something you touched on Greg, which it reminded me
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: of was trying things a little bit differently, and it's
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: sort of what his mistake was. The guy gave me
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: advice was when he made a student film, he would
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: do every take exactly the same way, so every act,
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: every performance was the exact same way. Lighting, same way, camera,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: same way. Well, finally he realized, wait a minute, all
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: my takes are pretty much the same. So you know,
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: take you know, take one, you know take one is
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: the same as take ten, so it really at the
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: end of the day, he said, you know what I
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: should have done was after each take, I should have
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: just tweaked that performance, make that adjustment, you know, and
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: just sort of try everything a different way, sort of
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: speak to sort of try to find the best sort
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: of way to handle a scene.
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, you're going for something very specific. I mean,
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: that's the thing. It's like, I'm a character, like I
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: just did this little horror movie called The Borneless Ones.
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: It's I think it's coming out later in October or whatever,
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: but I saw it at a festival a couple of
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: weeks ago. And you know, if I'm a creepy guy
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: at a gas station, which I play in this film,
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: there's just so much leeway on each line that I've
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: got to work with. I'm going for a specific kind
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: of insulting, kind of creepy, kind of hardcore feeling with
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: this character. So I don't have a lot of latitude.
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: I'm really trying to pinpoint that feeling and that character,
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: you know, And I think that's kind of unless you're
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: a character that's all over the place. That's kind of
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: what you're trying to do, is you know, pinpoint your reactions,
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: pinpoint your your lines, to define the character that you're
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: playing to be that character and how that feels with
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: a character. And there is a right and wrong in that,
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: I do believe, you know, sometimes it feels more like
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: the character, and then you say it slow or you
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: say it in a different way than it doesn't feel
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: like the character.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: And so that's what you're doing. You're just trying to
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: get that meter as close to that character as possible.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's great advice. I think that's great advice. Greg.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: You know, Greg, just in closing, you know, we've been
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: talking for about, you know, about forty five minutes now.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: So in closing, is there anything that maybe we didn't
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: want to discuss that you want to sort of talk about,
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: or is there any sort of thing you want to
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: sort of any parting thoughts you have for us? It's
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: sort of for the period d this whole conversation.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, you know, I've done a lot of
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: different aspects of the business and it's a very difficult business.
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: I don't recommend it to anybody. But I at the
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: same time realized that film is a big thing, and
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: I would say, continue to support movies by going to
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: the movies, maybe not so many you know, comic book blockbusters,
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: but more independent cinema, because we still want to see
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: movies in the theater, and we still want to support
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: the theater showings of films. And you know, I would say,
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: don't pirate movies, don't download pirated films, because that only
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: hurts the filmmaker and it makes it much more difficult
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: to put films out there. You know, everybody wants something
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: for free on the internet. But we still we got
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: to get our money back and we've got to try
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: to support the films that are made on a shoestring
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: budget that are good by paying a little, you know,
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: four or five bucks to see them. You know, I
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: don't think there's anything you know, I think that's an
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: honorable way to go, and I think that's what we
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: as film lovers, you know, should do. That's the right
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: thing to do. And you know, I'm hoping everybody will
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: enjoy Dark Seduction. And I've got another film, Midlife, that's
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: on iTunes and Indie Rain and a few other outlets
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: out there and check that out. But Dark Seduction is
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: the big one, and it's you know, it's very comic book,
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: it's very cultish, it's very dark and moody, but it's
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: also extremely funny and I'm super proud of it. And
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: it's kind of different. It's it's unique. It's got its
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: own little thing going, you know. So I hope people
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: dig it.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll make sure to again everyone want to
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: link to that in the show notes as well, especially
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: to you know, Greg's films.
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: And there's also a Dark Seduction page on Facebook, and
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: there's a Dark Seduction Twitter on Twitter. So yeah, the
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Facebook page is what I'm using now is and my
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: website is gtfilm Productions dot com is my production company website.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: You read my mind, Greg, next question online and you're
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: on Twitter too, right, yes.
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: Yes, Greg the actor on Twitter. And then there's a
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: dark Underslash Underslash seductions that's on Twitter as well.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: So Greg, Greg Travis, I want to say thank you
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: so much for coming on again. I always learn a
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: lot from my guests, and you know, Greg, you've continued
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: that that line of education and I you know, this
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: has just been a phenomenal interview, especially because I don't
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: get enough actors on. That's that's the case. Usually you
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: know a lot of screenwriters, a lot of directors, a
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: lot of producers. I don't get enough actors on here
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: every everybody. It's Dave Bulls dot com where you can
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: find all the show notes and I will link to
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: everything that Gregor and I discussed in the show notes
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: at Greg Travis. I want to say thank you so
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: much for coming on and I wish you the best
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: with Dark Soudition.
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: You Dave, I really appreciate it. Good luck with everything.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Oh thank you sir, and if you ever feel like
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: you want to come back on, I would love to
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: have you on anytime. I really look forward to see
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: what you're going to do in the future.
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: Absolutely thanks to Dave.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: head over to the show notes at indie film Huscle
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: dot com. Forward slash eight fifteen. If you haven't already,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: leave a good review for the show. It really helps
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: for listening. Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: to you soon.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Indie Film hustle dot com. That's I N D I
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: E F I L M h U S T l
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: E dot com