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Debunking the Piastri conspiracies: Sao Paulo GP Preview · Pit Talk

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannon's.
0:03
Speaker 1: On today's episode, Formula One resumes with the sal Paolo
0:06
Speaker 1: Grand Prix this weekend and with Lando Norris leading Oscar
0:09
Speaker 1: Piastri by just one point at the top of the
0:12
Speaker 1: title table. But could a statement max Forstappen weekend see
0:16
Speaker 1: the Dutchman's title odds shortened again. My name is Michael Lamonato.
0:21
Speaker 1: It's great to have your company and the company of
0:23
Speaker 1: my co host. If he were going to reltigate one
0:26
Speaker 1: championship outcome from the last twenty years, he wouldn't have
0:28
Speaker 1: started in two thousand and eight. It's Matt Clayton.
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Speaker 2: Oh, what sort of a can of worms is that?
0:33
Speaker 1: My?
0:33
Speaker 2: I going to throw at me to start this? I'm
0:35
Speaker 2: our thinking of It's funny we always talk championship deciders,
0:38
Speaker 2: and the drudgery of Abu Dhabi has been punctuated by
0:42
Speaker 2: a couple of pretty compelling ones. But I get the
0:44
Speaker 2: feeling that there's something about Sapolo and Interlagos, particularly that
0:48
Speaker 2: it always feels really significant in the back end of
0:51
Speaker 2: any of these championship run ins. So I'm very much
0:54
Speaker 2: looking forward to see what happens to Interlagos. I'm not
0:56
Speaker 2: very much looking forward to the time though that Interligos
0:59
Speaker 2: is in. But that's a that's of this weekend problem
1:01
Speaker 2: that I'm very happy to endure because it's going to
1:04
Speaker 2: be fun whatever happens.
1:05
Speaker 1: I would suggests, yes, it does. It's always felt wrong.
1:08
Speaker 1: I know Brazil used to in fact be the start
1:10
Speaker 1: of the calendar and used to be a totally different proposition,
1:12
Speaker 1: but it does feel wrong every year where it seems
1:15
Speaker 1: to get a little bit further away from the end
1:17
Speaker 1: of the season, Like to think there are three Grand
1:19
Speaker 1: Prix after Brazil just doesn't feel right to me. But
1:22
Speaker 1: you're right, there still always feels like there's a title
1:25
Speaker 1: significance whenever we turn up here because it has always
1:27
Speaker 1: been so influential. Even if we think about twenty twenty one,
1:30
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you how many races were between Brazil
1:32
Speaker 1: and Abu Dhabi that year, but I remember Brazil and
1:35
Speaker 1: then I remember Abu Derby.
1:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, I think Katar and was the first Jeta
1:40
Speaker 2: year was in there as well. Wasn't the first Saudi
1:42
Speaker 2: year I think was there as well, because I remember
1:44
Speaker 2: the Saudi race because that was when it would just
1:45
Speaker 2: become completely unhinged between the Staban and Hamilton that season
1:48
Speaker 2: and then we got Abu Derby. But I reckon Brazil's
1:52
Speaker 2: like Brazil would be the perfect place for the second
1:55
Speaker 2: last round of any season because it always leaves you
1:58
Speaker 2: wanting that little bit more because it's got that and
2:00
Speaker 2: inness and chaos to it. And then you go somewhere
2:02
Speaker 2: that pays a lot more money and is fifty seven
2:05
Speaker 2: times more boring with Aaviddhaby, But that's fine. At least
2:07
Speaker 2: we get Brazil to set things up. But second last
2:10
Speaker 2: round of the year, I'll take it. But as you
2:12
Speaker 2: set up in the intro here, we've effectively got a
2:14
Speaker 2: four round world championship now and that's what makes this
2:16
Speaker 2: year super exciting and what a great place to start
2:19
Speaker 2: it off.
2:19
Speaker 1: Eh, yeah, exactly. This is a good scene set, I think,
2:22
Speaker 1: before we go to some more random circuits, and it
2:25
Speaker 1: is a sprint weekend in case anyone just needs a
2:27
Speaker 1: reminding of the sprints that crop up from time to time,
2:30
Speaker 1: which means there are more points on offer for what
2:32
Speaker 1: could be what often is a really important weekend. That's
2:36
Speaker 1: more points on offer potentially for maxis stapp and to
2:38
Speaker 1: close the gap for Lando Norris to extend his lead,
2:40
Speaker 1: or for Oscopyastri to reassert some authority in the championship
2:44
Speaker 1: he had led for so long until the preceding round
2:48
Speaker 1: in Mexico. Now there was no racing at the weekend,
2:50
Speaker 1: which means we're it's a clean palate event this weekend
2:53
Speaker 1: for South Pallo. You can forget everything that came before it.
2:56
Speaker 1: But it's been interesting to hear. I mean, sometimes these breaks,
2:59
Speaker 1: I think a quite good because it just lets the
3:01
Speaker 1: discourse breathe a little bit. Everyone can think about what
3:04
Speaker 1: they've done, what they've been through for the last couple
3:06
Speaker 1: of months, and it's been interesting, you know. I think
3:09
Speaker 1: for those who suggested this championship fight wasn't capturing your imagination,
3:12
Speaker 1: I think the imaginations in some sectors are certainly running
3:15
Speaker 1: wild with the latest twsts and turns in this And
3:17
Speaker 1: I'm thinking in particular of some of the conspiracy theories
3:20
Speaker 1: that have been gripping motorsport fans, largely fans of Oscar
3:24
Speaker 1: Piastri's title bit. I've got a sailed I think for
3:27
Speaker 1: the middle of the year, when Lando Norris was being
3:29
Speaker 1: beaten here and there, it was probably on the other
3:31
Speaker 1: side of the fence as well. That tends to be
3:33
Speaker 1: how sport goes in general. But after Mexico, there were
3:36
Speaker 1: quite a few people, I guess, scratching for reasons beyond
3:41
Speaker 1: the rational, which we've explained in the last couple of weeks,
3:44
Speaker 1: and we've actually developed quite a list of conspiracies that
3:48
Speaker 1: people are trying to use to explain Oscar Piastri's decline
3:51
Speaker 1: in scoring.
3:52
Speaker 2: I'm not usually like the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists
3:56
Speaker 2: on most things. Is a few of these that have
3:59
Speaker 2: a little more merit to me than others. So I
4:01
Speaker 2: don't know when a conspiracy becomes then a theory that
4:03
Speaker 2: you can actually prove. I'm not sure where the lines
4:06
Speaker 2: of this are. You've probably got some rules that you
4:07
Speaker 2: haven't shared with me on this sort of thing. Some
4:10
Speaker 2: of them are worth exploring because I think some of
4:12
Speaker 2: them can be dismissed pretty quickly, and others make you
4:15
Speaker 2: do that maybe, and it's worth further discussion. But I
4:20
Speaker 2: know you had written a very comprehensive piece on aforementioned
4:24
Speaker 2: conspiracies last week for Fox sports dot com dot at
4:27
Speaker 2: you and I thought in the lead up to Brazil,
4:29
Speaker 2: you mentioned that hard reset we've had because the weekend off,
4:31
Speaker 2: it would be quite interesting to revisit some of them.
4:33
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and I think we're going to go
4:35
Speaker 1: through these now, and I'll read you a couple in
4:36
Speaker 1: a moment. But I think the asterisk on all of
4:40
Speaker 1: them is, well, let's see what happens this weekend. Attract
4:42
Speaker 1: should suit Piastre better. That he was pretty competitive aout
4:44
Speaker 1: last year. We shouldn't forget he would have won the
4:46
Speaker 1: sprint where not for team orders and well, no one
4:48
Speaker 1: other than Max is going to win the wet Raates,
4:50
Speaker 1: so that's by the by. But so if the form
4:53
Speaker 1: line continues this weekend, then it's more interesting. But one
4:56
Speaker 1: of the sort of phrases that have been cropping up since,
5:00
Speaker 1: particularly the US and Mexico, where Oscar Piastri was suddenly
5:03
Speaker 1: way off the pace, way further back than we've come
5:05
Speaker 1: to expect him, is that he's been given a slower
5:07
Speaker 1: car setup than Lando Norris for reasons are unmentioned. There
5:11
Speaker 1: was even remarkably one of those social media copy paste
5:16
Speaker 1: explanations doing the rounds on a variety of social media
5:19
Speaker 1: platforms about how he'd been given completely different body work
5:21
Speaker 1: at some points, bigger or smaller rear wings. All of
5:23
Speaker 1: that is nonsense. You can go look at the photos
5:26
Speaker 1: at least in terms of that. But the car set
5:28
Speaker 1: up one mat I think he's actually one that some
5:30
Speaker 1: people throw around. I've heard this from other commentators as well,
5:33
Speaker 1: not normally if one commentators as being something that just
5:37
Speaker 1: how teams give setups and then they don't work, and
5:39
Speaker 1: then well sucked in. If you're the driver, we've got
5:41
Speaker 1: the bad setup. It's not really how it works, though,
5:44
Speaker 1: is it, Because I mean, that's the point of three
5:46
Speaker 1: hours of practice, and we should have noted Mexico that
5:48
Speaker 1: Oscar had an extra hour of practice compared to Lando
5:51
Speaker 1: and still couldn't really get the right feeling.
5:53
Speaker 2: Yes he did, you mention their modern day journalism control
5:55
Speaker 2: see control ver. Yeah, look, the slow car setup. It's
6:01
Speaker 2: a bit of a red herring for me because it
6:04
Speaker 2: assumes that setups are binary and don't change over the
6:08
Speaker 2: course of a weekend, which we know is not the case.
6:10
Speaker 2: This is why we have hours upon hours and some
6:13
Speaker 2: people will say too much practice in a lot of
6:14
Speaker 2: respects because you are constantly finessing things. And yes, you
6:19
Speaker 2: can base them on historical precedent at a particular circuit
6:22
Speaker 2: or driver preference. You can also get stuck down rabbit
6:25
Speaker 2: holes with these things. And you mentioned Mexico before, a
6:29
Speaker 2: lot of the teams were running third and reserve drivers.
6:31
Speaker 2: In that first practice session. Oscar Piastri was one of
6:33
Speaker 2: the few regulars that actually did that first session there
6:36
Speaker 2: didn't really seem to help. But the concept of a
6:40
Speaker 2: slow car setup and I'm using air quotes here. I
6:43
Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I don't think that necessarily
6:45
Speaker 2: holds water simply because these things are evolving, and they
6:49
Speaker 2: can evolve in a good or bad direction, but they
6:52
Speaker 2: are always evolving. There's nothing that you are given and
6:54
Speaker 2: then become static.
6:56
Speaker 1: Is it? Yeah, exactly right. And it's worth also reflecting
6:58
Speaker 1: on what he said throughout the week, which it was
7:00
Speaker 1: never that the car didn't feel right to him. Yes,
7:03
Speaker 1: in the sense where you know, talking about chasing set
7:06
Speaker 1: up rabbit holes. If we compare just for an example
7:08
Speaker 1: and as an extreme example, but to Yuki Sonoda through
7:10
Speaker 1: the year, when you'd get out of the car and
7:12
Speaker 1: say he couldn't understand why he can't get the car
7:14
Speaker 1: to do what he wants. For Oscar, it's quite different.
7:17
Speaker 1: The car's doing exactly what he wants, but the way
7:19
Speaker 1: he's doing it is not quite right, and he admitted
7:21
Speaker 1: by Sunday night, and it seems like it, you know, I
7:23
Speaker 1: don't want to get inside his head here, but it
7:25
Speaker 1: seems like it took until after qualifying on Saturday night
7:28
Speaker 1: and then for him to have improved things in the
7:30
Speaker 1: race by Sunday for him to sort of accept that
7:33
Speaker 1: his driving style wasn't working at these circuits, which is
7:36
Speaker 1: another thing that people have been pointing to the idea
7:38
Speaker 1: that he's been talking about having to suddenly change his
7:40
Speaker 1: driving style. That's not about car set up for him
7:43
Speaker 1: getting a dud car here, it's about two tracks that
7:45
Speaker 1: make some pretty specific demands of the driver's Mexico in
7:49
Speaker 1: particular being by far the highest altitude track FORMUTA one
7:52
Speaker 1: race but probably has ever raced that, I assume, making
7:55
Speaker 1: really quite unusual influences on the way cars behave.
7:58
Speaker 2: Well, and Kosha too with we're discussing this when we
8:00
Speaker 2: were talking about the circuit of the Americas after Texas.
8:03
Speaker 2: It's a pretty odd track. It's almost like two or
8:05
Speaker 2: three normal tracks stapled together in various bits. There's not
8:08
Speaker 2: a rid of consistent way to set a car up there.
8:10
Speaker 2: The two factors you mentioned about those two tracks, they're
8:12
Speaker 2: low grip tracks, and we know that that's not necessarily
8:17
Speaker 2: his sweet spot. So, as you were saying before, it's
8:19
Speaker 2: one thing to know, you know, you're happy enough with
8:22
Speaker 2: the car itself, but you're not able to extract that
8:25
Speaker 2: difference making time out of it. Certain drivers have certain
8:29
Speaker 2: strengths and weaknesses with certain tracks. It's just unfortunate the
8:32
Speaker 2: shape of the calendar that these two have come up.
8:34
Speaker 2: When they've come up. Now there's a little bit of
8:36
Speaker 2: a loss of momentum, and you know, we don't, as
8:38
Speaker 2: you said before, what's going on inside of his head,
8:41
Speaker 2: but there's got to be a little bit of maybe
8:43
Speaker 2: a lot of confidence, but maybe hearings and footsteps behind
8:46
Speaker 2: you when you're see this lead get whittled down. But
8:49
Speaker 2: it's more when these two tracks have appeared on the
8:51
Speaker 2: calendar at a time where perhaps he's chasing his tail
8:54
Speaker 2: a little bit and something we'll probably get to a
8:56
Speaker 2: little bit later. There's this whole concept of being the
8:59
Speaker 2: hunter and the hunt in this World championship, particularly when
9:03
Speaker 2: you're dealing with an intra team rivalry with Lando Norris,
9:06
Speaker 2: and particularly when neither driver has won it before. That's
9:09
Speaker 2: the other dynamic in all of this. There's going to
9:12
Speaker 2: be much more of a human slash emotional element into
9:15
Speaker 2: this that factors in. But the being given a wrong
9:19
Speaker 2: setup is not something that I can really rub a
9:24
Speaker 2: stamp as a concept here, because I think it's one
9:26
Speaker 2: of those things that's evolving and maybe he's just gone
9:29
Speaker 2: down a wrong road a little bit, or he doesn't
9:31
Speaker 2: necessarily have the ability to extract the most out of
9:34
Speaker 2: a setup that is mostly fired, and that comes down
9:36
Speaker 2: to the individual.
9:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just interesting something you said there, which is
9:39
Speaker 1: that idea of maybe being a bit under pressure as
9:41
Speaker 1: we arrive at these circuits that unfortunately back to back.
9:44
Speaker 1: It also tracks that historically hasn't been good at, but
9:47
Speaker 1: that Lando Norris has historically been quite good at. Yes,
9:49
Speaker 1: some his forms maybe been at Mexico in particular, where
9:52
Speaker 1: the gap was largest between them, has probably been underratedly
9:55
Speaker 1: good because two years ago, when you know, the car
9:57
Speaker 1: was getting into that window where it could perform well,
10:00
Speaker 1: was knocked out in Q one in a sort of
10:01
Speaker 1: freak occurrence, but then recovered to finish ahead of Piastre Okay,
10:05
Speaker 1: it was Pastri's debut year, and again the tracks unusual
10:07
Speaker 1: last year probably would have won the race had there
10:10
Speaker 1: not been those shenanigans with max Verstaffen all on the
10:13
Speaker 1: Staffn side obviously on the first couple of laps, and
10:16
Speaker 1: then we'd be probably be talking about in a slightly
10:18
Speaker 1: different lens had that been maybe recognized a little bit
10:21
Speaker 1: more strongly. And I don't think I recognized that beforehand either,
10:24
Speaker 1: but it's clear when you kind of go back and
10:25
Speaker 1: really think, oh, this is this is a Norris track
10:28
Speaker 1: and comparing that. You know, we talked about that ahead
10:30
Speaker 1: of for example, the Austrian Grand Prix to a lesser
10:33
Speaker 1: extend Singapore as well, that these are tracks and Norris
10:35
Speaker 1: had to win to win the title because they were
10:37
Speaker 1: the circuits you kind of mentally gave to him when
10:40
Speaker 1: you're telling up the championship points. Yep, and he's done that.
10:43
Speaker 1: Now it's sort of up to Piastre to respond to
10:45
Speaker 1: tracks that a little bit more equal, which for the
10:47
Speaker 1: most part of the last four.
10:48
Speaker 2: The other part about this too is that you know,
10:51
Speaker 2: we know how difficult it is to overtake these days,
10:54
Speaker 2: even if you were in a car that's the best
10:56
Speaker 2: car in the fields that McLaren has been for the
10:57
Speaker 2: majority of the year. And I'm not so that Formula
11:00
Speaker 2: ones are qualifying championship that dictates what happens in the races,
11:03
Speaker 2: But there are certain tracks where if you are buried
11:05
Speaker 2: two or three rows back short of a huge stroke
11:09
Speaker 2: of luck in some first corner shenanigans or what have you,
11:12
Speaker 2: your race is kind of dictated by where you qualify.
11:14
Speaker 2: Piastre hadn't really got on top of things through Friday
11:17
Speaker 2: and Saturday in Mexico. It didn't qualify well, was buried
11:19
Speaker 2: down on the fourth row. Actually thought he raced pretty well,
11:22
Speaker 2: to be honest. I mean, you look at someone that
11:23
Speaker 2: we talked about last week with his move on George Russell,
11:26
Speaker 2: and the longer the weekend went, it felt that he
11:29
Speaker 2: was getting more on top of things and looked like
11:31
Speaker 2: the Oscar Piastre that we've come to know and love
11:34
Speaker 2: this season. But when you're starting from so far back
11:37
Speaker 2: and it takes you until maybe the second stint of
11:40
Speaker 2: the race on Sunday to really be at one with
11:42
Speaker 2: what you're driving, horses bolted at that point, like Norris
11:45
Speaker 2: was completely in control at that point. So while the
11:47
Speaker 2: finishing result wasn't fantastic, and yes he lost the lead
11:50
Speaker 2: of the championship, it did start to come good over
11:53
Speaker 2: the course of the weekend. It maybe just took a
11:55
Speaker 2: little bit too long. And I think if you're going
11:57
Speaker 2: down some completely incorrect set up rabbit hole here, you're
12:01
Speaker 2: not going to be able to extract yourself out of that.
12:03
Speaker 2: So there were good signs on the Sunday, but it
12:06
Speaker 2: just came a little bit too late, I think.
12:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. But I think that also tallies with the next
12:10
Speaker 1: point that sort of was brought up over the last
12:11
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. You have to spend too long on
12:13
Speaker 1: this one because I think a lot of the same
12:15
Speaker 1: arguments apply, but that he was racing a broken car.
12:18
Speaker 1: A lot of this came from that, the fact he
12:20
Speaker 1: had the big crashes in Azerbaijan, subsequently changed his schassis
12:23
Speaker 1: ahead of the race, I think, which he then crashed again,
12:25
Speaker 1: so quite possibly you could argue there's gonna be damage.
12:28
Speaker 1: Then of course, had the big crash at turn one
12:30
Speaker 1: of the sprint in Austin, the team checked the chassis,
12:34
Speaker 1: there were no problems. I think for me, the thing
12:36
Speaker 1: that really kills this theory is that before the crash,
12:39
Speaker 1: or and sprint qualifying in Austin was I think just
12:42
Speaker 1: over three tenths behind. Norris closed that deficit in qualifying
12:45
Speaker 1: for the Grand Prix after the crash. Correct, you wouldn't
12:47
Speaker 1: do that if the car was more damaged, ark would suggest.
12:50
Speaker 1: And also drivers, do you know there's that psychological thing,
12:53
Speaker 1: isn't it when a driver can't understand why they're slow.
12:55
Speaker 1: We hear this periodically. They asked for the Shassi to
12:57
Speaker 1: be changed because there must be a fundamental problem. Can't
13:00
Speaker 1: see in the car. Piastri's not reporting any problem with
13:04
Speaker 1: the car. That's not right. In fact, he's said several
13:06
Speaker 1: times in Mexico the car feels fine. So for me
13:08
Speaker 1: that that theory is straight up and not really applicable.
13:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. It's one of those things the word I
13:13
Speaker 2: thought you were going to get to there, but you
13:14
Speaker 2: didn't quite. It becomes a driver's crutch. That's one of
13:17
Speaker 2: those things. It's like, oh, well the chassis must be
13:19
Speaker 2: cracked or that's broken and the team's going to strip
13:21
Speaker 2: it back, or I'm going to get a new tub
13:23
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. That's done for a couple of reasons.
13:26
Speaker 2: It's to massage the emotional side of a driver. Perhaps
13:29
Speaker 2: it also buys you a little bit of time. It's well,
13:31
Speaker 2: we'll go and look at this seat where the fine
13:33
Speaker 2: tooth came and maybe there was a hairline crack in
13:35
Speaker 2: it or not. But it's a bit of an emotional
13:37
Speaker 2: crutch rather than anything physical. So yeah, I think that
13:40
Speaker 2: conspiracy theory can go with the first one in the bin.
13:42
Speaker 1: I think yes more. I guess nuance now is when
13:45
Speaker 1: we move to the idea that the upgrades McLaren is
13:48
Speaker 1: bringing a better suited to Lando Norris are designed to
13:51
Speaker 1: help Norris feel better in the car. This is sort
13:53
Speaker 1: of a long running idea at least upgrading the car
13:56
Speaker 1: for better feeling before we consider the idea whether or
13:59
Speaker 1: it's benefiting Norris. Because while this car has obviously been
14:01
Speaker 1: a great step forward on last year's machine, mccaron's already
14:04
Speaker 1: dominated the constructors championship, both drivers have complained of there
14:09
Speaker 1: being a subtle step backwards in terms of feeling when
14:11
Speaker 1: they're at the limiting qualifying the car is not giving
14:13
Speaker 1: them the same kind of feedback at that front axle.
14:17
Speaker 1: This is the reason Lando Norris or he says, well,
14:19
Speaker 1: it's part of a big reason why he was making
14:20
Speaker 1: so many qualifying mistakes early in the year, because when
14:23
Speaker 1: you were going for that last tenth in Q three,
14:25
Speaker 1: he wasn't getting the feedback he fields. He needs to
14:28
Speaker 1: drive the car better. Piastre seems to have dealt with
14:32
Speaker 1: it better generally, he's incorporated it more into the way
14:34
Speaker 1: he wants to drive the car. They do drive the
14:36
Speaker 1: car differently, that's perfectly normal. Two things worth pointing out here, though,
14:41
Speaker 1: One is this car hasn't really been substantially upgraded since
14:44
Speaker 1: the British Grand Prix in July, so ages ago. Worth
14:48
Speaker 1: noting that after that upgrade, Piastre was on track to
14:50
Speaker 1: dominate that race in the wet as well, before that
14:54
Speaker 1: somewhat contentious safety car penalty I suppose dropped him to
14:57
Speaker 1: second behind Norris, but was clearly pretty good with that
15:00
Speaker 1: upgrade package and one more racist subsequently. What is different
15:03
Speaker 1: though Matt and I think this is actually an interesting
15:05
Speaker 1: discussion point. I don't think we'll ever get a clear
15:08
Speaker 1: answer of a Moscow about it until maybe sometime in
15:10
Speaker 1: the future, maybe in his biography, who knows. But there
15:13
Speaker 1: was an upgrade in Canada designed specifically to address that
15:17
Speaker 1: front end feeling. Wasn't a performance upgrade, was a feeling upgrade,
15:20
Speaker 1: if you want to call it that. Norris has raced
15:23
Speaker 1: it ever since Piastre has decided not to race it,
15:27
Speaker 1: and I wonder if there may be at tracks where
15:30
Speaker 1: we don't know exactly why he seems to struggle so
15:32
Speaker 1: much with those low grip settings, but tracks where the
15:34
Speaker 1: feeling perhaps is not quite right for him, whether that
15:37
Speaker 1: actually ends up being an important differentiator.
15:40
Speaker 2: I mean that by very nature of the term upgrade
15:42
Speaker 2: means that it's supposed to be an improvement right on
15:44
Speaker 2: what's come before. But the interesting part for me about
15:47
Speaker 2: this is that's the decision Norris makes when he's trailing
15:50
Speaker 2: his teammate in the World Championship. And so whether you
15:53
Speaker 2: think it's better or not, you are more likely to
15:57
Speaker 2: go for the different thing, even if it's the new
15:59
Speaker 2: thing might not be the best thing, but you're likely
16:01
Speaker 2: to not do what the guy that's leading you is
16:03
Speaker 2: doing because you look at it. If it's a zero
16:06
Speaker 2: some equation, right, if you do the same as the
16:08
Speaker 2: other guy, you get to end up in the same spot.
16:10
Speaker 2: It's an easy decision to make if you're the trailing
16:12
Speaker 2: driver in that respect to try something that maybe Piastre
16:16
Speaker 2: doesn't want to try. And from Piastre's point of view,
16:18
Speaker 2: he's probably thinking, well, I'm pretty happy with things are
16:20
Speaker 2: at here. Why would I go for this new front
16:23
Speaker 2: suspension if it's negligible whether it's going to be better
16:25
Speaker 2: or not. So if you flip the positions in the championship,
16:28
Speaker 2: I wonder if we're having the same conversation. It's not
16:32
Speaker 2: a black and white question if you if you understand
16:34
Speaker 2: what I mean there. So, yeah, is there a degree
16:38
Speaker 2: of you know, Norris getting more accustomed to what they
16:40
Speaker 2: brought in Canada and being more comfortable with that? Yeah? Possibly,
16:43
Speaker 2: But I think so much of that was dictated by
16:45
Speaker 2: where each driver sat in the Driver's Championship at the time,
16:48
Speaker 2: And if they'd been in the opposite positions, then maybe
16:50
Speaker 2: we're having a different conversation.
16:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, worth noting, but it doesn't necessarily discount that as
16:54
Speaker 1: a concept. But it's he won Pastre won two races
16:58
Speaker 1: after that, right, So we can't say that was defining
17:01
Speaker 1: and would have won probably another two if we can
17:03
Speaker 1: include Silicten and Hungry. But you're right, I think that
17:06
Speaker 1: is something where you know, you throw everything at the
17:08
Speaker 1: wall when you're behind, and he was quite behind at
17:10
Speaker 1: that point, and then more behind after he crashed out
17:12
Speaker 1: of Canada was Lando Dorris, so he had nothing to
17:15
Speaker 1: lose in that sense. I think that that's a really
17:16
Speaker 1: good point to bring up. I wonder now whether or
17:19
Speaker 1: not Oscar's thinking, well, another tool in the toolbox wouldn't
17:22
Speaker 1: be a bad thing to have, considering no upgrades of
17:23
Speaker 1: being brought to this car otherwise. But it also feels
17:26
Speaker 1: like it's too late to make that kind of change because,
17:28
Speaker 1: as he says, for most of the races this year,
17:30
Speaker 1: he's been driving perfectly fine, including the ones immediately before
17:33
Speaker 1: Austin in Mexico. I think it's worth pointing out.
17:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, the timing thing is really important. What you said that.
17:38
Speaker 2: I think if you were going to make that change,
17:40
Speaker 2: that was probably a decision two or three rounds ago. Now,
17:44
Speaker 2: it's probably it's never too late to do these things,
17:46
Speaker 2: but it probably isn't the context of the fact we've
17:48
Speaker 2: got a one point championship between the two teammates. The
17:51
Speaker 2: moment to do that's probably past, and you're kind of
17:54
Speaker 2: you're not stuck with what you've got. But if you
17:56
Speaker 2: can understand what I'm saying, you're on a path now
17:58
Speaker 2: that with four rounds to go, it's probably pretty cook
18:00
Speaker 2: to get off.
18:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's right. But we wait and see
18:03
Speaker 1: if anyone talks anything about these slightly differentiated cars over
18:07
Speaker 1: the next couple of rounds. I suspect, at least in
18:09
Speaker 1: Oscar's part, he won't be bringing that up now is
18:12
Speaker 1: an issue that's in the back of his mind. Let's
18:14
Speaker 1: get into the more controversial elements of some of the
18:17
Speaker 1: theories that have been doing the rounds in the last
18:18
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Simply that McLaren wants Norris to win
18:22
Speaker 1: the driver's title. That's a nice easy one to understand
18:25
Speaker 1: because it's pretty straightforward. There's no complexity to it. Simply
18:29
Speaker 1: that now the constructors Championship is won, and it was
18:32
Speaker 1: one in Singapore, wasn't it? Suddenly Oscar Piastri has been
18:36
Speaker 1: way off the pace and the timing is certainly there
18:37
Speaker 1: isn't it after the Singapore Grand Frieze when he struggles began. Yeah, okay,
18:41
Speaker 1: he had that pretty rough race in Azerbaijan. But I
18:43
Speaker 1: think that I still adamant that that's more of a
18:46
Speaker 1: blip than indicative of a form slump, because I think
18:48
Speaker 1: it really is isolated to the last two races. But
18:51
Speaker 1: the idea that not only McLaren wants Norris to win,
18:54
Speaker 1: but is actively going about helping him win by noveling,
18:57
Speaker 1: to use a word that's been used once or twice
18:59
Speaker 1: in this media recently Piastre, who was the title leader,
19:03
Speaker 1: is an interesting theory.
19:05
Speaker 2: See, you and I might slightly disagree on this. The
19:07
Speaker 2: word noveling makes me laugh, by the way. Yeah, you
19:10
Speaker 2: think of the number if people need to understand the
19:13
Speaker 2: number of people that work in these Formula one teams
19:16
Speaker 2: and the hours and the money and everything that goes
19:19
Speaker 2: into it. You are not going to deliberately handcuff one
19:21
Speaker 2: of your own cars. It's just not the way it's
19:23
Speaker 2: going to work. Yes, Constructors Championship sealed. That's fine. The
19:27
Speaker 2: word wants is the key one for me, and you
19:29
Speaker 2: and I may differ on this, but I'm going to
19:31
Speaker 2: have my ninety seconds and then you can shoot me
19:33
Speaker 2: down and tell me I'm wrong. The word wants isn't
19:35
Speaker 2: the word that I've been thinking about all year. The
19:37
Speaker 2: word prefer is the word that I've been thinking about
19:40
Speaker 2: and this is not because of any sort of nationalistic
19:43
Speaker 2: bias or anything like that. To my mind, if you
19:47
Speaker 2: have invested an incredible amount of time, money and resource
19:50
Speaker 2: in a driver since they are in their teenage years,
19:53
Speaker 2: and you have a chance to win a World championship,
19:55
Speaker 2: it sound business practice. I would suggest to probably want
19:59
Speaker 2: the person that you to sorry prefer not what prefer
20:02
Speaker 2: the person that you've invested all this time, money and
20:04
Speaker 2: resource in. If you had a choice, you would want
20:07
Speaker 2: to return on that investment, right, It is the return
20:09
Speaker 2: on the investment. We go back a generation here and
20:12
Speaker 2: the last time at Australia was right in the mix
20:14
Speaker 2: for a World championship. We had the Sebastian Vattal Mark
20:16
Speaker 2: Webber situation at red Bull, now slightly different in terms
20:19
Speaker 2: of the way the team was managed in what have you.
20:22
Speaker 2: Mark was obviously a lot closer to the end of
20:24
Speaker 2: his career and a whole level lot older than said
20:26
Speaker 2: was at the time, But it made complete sense no
20:29
Speaker 2: matter what the stopwatch said that Red Bull probably wanted
20:31
Speaker 2: to get more behind Vattal than Weber simply because Vettel
20:35
Speaker 2: was homegrown. Weber was brought in. If you like, and
20:39
Speaker 2: I remember Mark saying, and we'll probably revisit that this
20:41
Speaker 2: week because it was in Brazil when he said it
20:42
Speaker 2: back in twenty ten that his speed had perhaps been
20:44
Speaker 2: inconvenient for Red Bull, which was one of Mark's better
20:47
Speaker 2: lines in a season of very very good ones. But
20:49
Speaker 2: going back to the Norris Piastre equation, from a business
20:53
Speaker 2: return on investment point of view, there probably would be
20:55
Speaker 2: a preference. I would say the main thing for McLaren
20:58
Speaker 2: is that they haven't won a driver's title for so
20:59
Speaker 2: long now that quite frankly, they take either of them
21:02
Speaker 2: and the other factor in this equation. When we were
21:05
Speaker 2: talking about want slash prefer this is a different conversation
21:09
Speaker 2: if it's only to McLaren's in contention for the Driver's
21:11
Speaker 2: World Championship right now. It's a different conversation entirely now
21:16
Speaker 2: because of the fact that Max Forstappen has inserted himself
21:19
Speaker 2: in to this Driver's Championship and the scenario that may
21:24
Speaker 2: play out from Brazil onwards. That is really really interesting
21:27
Speaker 2: to me is there may come a point where this
21:31
Speaker 2: team has to actually is in McLaren actually has to
21:33
Speaker 2: institute some sort of team orders not to advantage one
21:38
Speaker 2: or the other of their drivers, but to prevent Max
21:40
Speaker 2: Verstappen from stealing this under their nose. And there are
21:43
Speaker 2: cases in Formula one history where you've seen teams diither
21:46
Speaker 2: on this or perhaps not deal with it correctly, and
21:49
Speaker 2: then they lose world championships at the last gars. Oh,
21:52
Speaker 2: that would be Kimmy Reichen in two thousand and seven
21:54
Speaker 2: in Brazil against McLaren. So there is historical presidency. This
21:59
Speaker 2: is why this South Paolo Grand Prix weekend is so
22:02
Speaker 2: interesting to see whether Vstapan can eat into that gap.
22:04
Speaker 2: But in terms of the word want versus the word prefer,
22:08
Speaker 2: I would imagine that McLaren would prefer, from a complete
22:11
Speaker 2: business decision, one driver to win the championship over the other.
22:15
Speaker 2: But I suspect, by the way that you've looked at
22:17
Speaker 2: me rather oddly for the last sixty seconds, you may
22:19
Speaker 2: have a counterpart to this.
22:21
Speaker 1: Well. I think, actually, why you sum it up? I
22:23
Speaker 1: can it is believable and I think, in fact we've
22:25
Speaker 1: talked about this on the podcast before that some people
22:28
Speaker 1: at McLaren will have worked with Norris for the entirety
22:31
Speaker 1: of his duration with the team, dating back to even
22:33
Speaker 1: his junior days before it became a Formula One driver.
22:36
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are some elements of the team that
22:38
Speaker 1: would prefer to see the guy they know better and
22:41
Speaker 1: who has been around longer to win it. And I
22:44
Speaker 1: think even in that weird way in which McLaren is
22:49
Speaker 1: almost striving for an outcome that is more perfect than possible,
22:52
Speaker 1: someone must be thinking, well, you know, Norris wins it now,
22:54
Speaker 1: and Oscar's younger, and he's newer, he'll win the next
22:57
Speaker 1: one and then it'll be great because everyone in two
22:59
Speaker 1: years will be back to exactly even and everything will
23:01
Speaker 1: be perfect in the way McLaren wants everything to be perfect.
23:04
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's an element of that as well, But
23:07
Speaker 1: I think in this also agrees with your point. There's
23:11
Speaker 1: no world in which that manifest with them slowing Pastri
23:14
Speaker 1: down already influencing either driver at all, because it's too
23:17
Speaker 1: risky to well, there's no way to make a driver
23:20
Speaker 1: faster without outside the normal processes, right, like, no one's
23:24
Speaker 1: going and actually, well, actually we just found out that
23:26
Speaker 1: the whole season the engine's been detuned, and we're just
23:28
Speaker 1: going to tune up Lenon. That's not going to happen,
23:31
Speaker 1: and inversity, They're not going to go and slow Oscar's
23:33
Speaker 1: car down because it's also hurting Norris's odds of the championship,
23:36
Speaker 1: because Vestapan has been allowed to close in. If let's
23:39
Speaker 1: say the result of this big verstap and swing, or
23:42
Speaker 1: the cause of this big verstap and swing in his
23:44
Speaker 1: favor and against them clarence favor, is because they've been
23:47
Speaker 1: slowing one of their cars down, well that's silly, Like,
23:50
Speaker 1: that's what a waste of time, what a waste of
23:52
Speaker 1: millions of dollars of sending that other car around the
23:55
Speaker 1: track every weekend just for it to finish behind who
23:57
Speaker 1: might end that the driver might end up winning the time,
24:00
Speaker 1: or from the rival team. So I think that element
24:02
Speaker 1: of this idea is nonsense. The idea that they're going
24:05
Speaker 1: out and actively slowing down who was at one point
24:08
Speaker 1: the dominant championship leader or the comfortable championship leader in
24:12
Speaker 1: what might end up being a long shot hope of
24:14
Speaker 1: getting the other guy over the line. I don't believe that,
24:16
Speaker 1: but I think it's totally believable that there's some parts
24:19
Speaker 1: of McLaren. I don't think it's team principal Andrea Stella
24:21
Speaker 1: because he's new to the team principalship, who might prefer
24:25
Speaker 1: Norris to see it. A lot of people believe it
24:27
Speaker 1: Zach Brown's doing. I think some of that's a little
24:29
Speaker 1: bit residual from the way he dealt with Daniel Riccardo's
24:32
Speaker 1: final year, and I think there's understandable hurt among some
24:35
Speaker 1: Australian fans about that, even though it was pretty like
24:38
Speaker 1: cold calculated business and what else is a formula one
24:41
Speaker 1: CEO going to do? And some people have pointed out,
24:44
Speaker 1: in fact, I've had messages directly about this, that Zach
24:47
Speaker 1: Brown was an investor in Lando Norris's merch company Quadrant.
24:51
Speaker 1: I think it was correct.
24:52
Speaker 2: Key word you just mentioned there though, was.
24:54
Speaker 1: Yes, it was. It's been sold. It got sold I
24:57
Speaker 1: think earlier this year to volace Esports, and Zack Brown's
25:00
Speaker 1: no longer a shareholder. Landa Norris is a shareholder in
25:02
Speaker 1: that company though, So there's no kickback scenario in which
25:07
Speaker 1: Zack Brown gets a bit of extra money from merch
25:10
Speaker 1: because Lando Norris wins the title. That's nonsense as well,
25:14
Speaker 1: and I suspect as well. I'd have to go back
25:16
Speaker 1: and have a look up. I actually look this up.
25:17
Speaker 1: But remember, I do remember there was a controversy in
25:20
Speaker 1: during COVID when this merch line launched. I think I
25:22
Speaker 1: think Landa Norris launched in twenty twenty when McLaren said,
25:25
Speaker 1: you can't sell merchandise Ato McLaren log On without our approval.
25:29
Speaker 1: So I suspect there might that might be part of
25:31
Speaker 1: the reason why Zack Brown ended up getting involved in
25:34
Speaker 1: this company. I think it's much less conspiratorial than some suspect.
25:37
Speaker 2: Two quick things before we get off this point, and
25:39
Speaker 2: I say, quick, it's a good go for ten minutes,
25:41
Speaker 2: yere can we can we just douse the flames of
25:45
Speaker 2: this whole nationalistic McLaren wants Norris to win because he's
25:48
Speaker 2: a prittish driver thing. Let's have a look at McLaren.
25:51
Speaker 2: It's a company founded by a New Zealand racer that
25:55
Speaker 2: has significant barradi Raw family ownership, that's run by an American,
25:59
Speaker 2: it has a tea principle who's Italian, so yes, they're
26:01
Speaker 2: based in the UK. I think a lot of this
26:04
Speaker 2: comes from and I don't want to labor the point
26:05
Speaker 2: on this, A lot of this comes from the way
26:07
Speaker 2: we can, as Australians consume Formula One with a British
26:11
Speaker 2: commentary feed. I think that probably stirs that to a
26:15
Speaker 2: greater proportion than it needs to be. That's one thing.
26:17
Speaker 2: The other thing we talk about for staff and closing
26:20
Speaker 2: and closing and closing. If it comes to a point
26:23
Speaker 2: where one of the two McLaren drivers I either one
26:25
Speaker 2: that's trailing in the World Championship, has to agree or
26:28
Speaker 2: acquiesce to some sort of team order to ensure that
26:31
Speaker 2: a McLaren driver wins the World Championship. If McLaren don't
26:34
Speaker 2: do that and they have this World Championship taken from
26:37
Speaker 2: underneath them at the last possible minute, that is absolutely insane.
26:41
Speaker 2: If that goes down, that's just that's not the right
26:44
Speaker 2: way to run a Formula One team. You're in to
26:46
Speaker 2: win the Driver's Championship, and if you are going to
26:49
Speaker 2: try and treat this so fairly between your two drivers
26:51
Speaker 2: that you allow someone else to win. And I know
26:53
Speaker 2: that's been hinted at in comments from McLaren in the past.
26:56
Speaker 2: That's an easy thing to say when it's nine months
26:58
Speaker 2: out from the championship decider, when the rubber hits the road,
27:01
Speaker 2: this team needs to win the Driver's championship, and it
27:04
Speaker 2: would be completely insane if one of the drivers wasn't
27:07
Speaker 2: to ask to perhaps prioritize the driver that's ahead into
27:11
Speaker 2: situation like that to prevent Max of staff and from
27:13
Speaker 2: winning this.
27:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look in principle, I agree. I just think
27:16
Speaker 1: them and we've talked about this before, the McLaren has
27:19
Speaker 1: worked so hard this year that it's almost inconceivable that
27:23
Speaker 1: they turn around and change their mind on I think
27:26
Speaker 1: that they back themselves into a corner whereby how can
27:29
Speaker 1: they possibly internally justify backing one driver? I think I
27:32
Speaker 1: think it'll obviously be different if the mathematics make it so,
27:35
Speaker 1: you know, Orlando or Oscar retire from the next two
27:37
Speaker 1: races and Max is right there, then it sort of
27:40
Speaker 1: sort of makes the argument for itself, and they've left
27:42
Speaker 1: the door open for that. Maybe if you're in Abu
27:44
Speaker 1: Dhabi as well, even if the points are close, but
27:46
Speaker 1: one driver's qualified better and he's racing better, and there's
27:49
Speaker 1: some scenario, you know, like Sergias in twenty twenty one,
27:52
Speaker 1: second time, with reference to Tranto, anyone this week this week,
27:55
Speaker 1: you know who can slow down Maxim or something. Maybe
27:58
Speaker 1: that's different. But I think I'm not sure if this
28:00
Speaker 1: is just a merging general discussion of McLaren itself has
28:02
Speaker 1: brought it up. This is also the second time we
28:05
Speaker 1: brought up the twenty ten campaign. Rather where no one
28:09
Speaker 1: would have suggested Sebastian Vettel was anywhere near favorite to
28:13
Speaker 1: win the title in Abu Dab, so far behind on points,
28:16
Speaker 1: but it happened that he ended up being in the
28:18
Speaker 1: right place at the right time. How do you discount
28:20
Speaker 1: against that? How do you tell the driver who might
28:22
Speaker 1: be a few further points behind that you have to
28:25
Speaker 1: give up your chance? And for all the you know,
28:28
Speaker 1: we I don't want to relitigate twenty ten, but Red
28:31
Speaker 1: Bull refused to back Mark Webber as its preferred title winner,
28:34
Speaker 1: despite him being much closer to the lead on points
28:36
Speaker 1: and having led the championship several times that season. But
28:39
Speaker 1: you could argue that it was right because the championship
28:42
Speaker 1: ended up being the other guy in a completely unaffected,
28:46
Speaker 1: uninfluenced title decider. There's that argument to be made as well.
28:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the only time that Vettel led the championship
28:52
Speaker 2: the entire season was after the last race. Yeah, and
28:55
Speaker 2: was a race where he I was there twenty ten,
28:58
Speaker 2: he completely won the race of merit completely dominated Weber
29:01
Speaker 2: and Fernando a lot, so I got stuck back in
29:03
Speaker 2: the pack. Good of Vatari Petrov. It's the first time
29:05
Speaker 2: he's been mentioned on this podcast. But these things do
29:08
Speaker 2: have a way of sorting themselves out. But yeah, it's
29:11
Speaker 2: a side a potential conspiracy rather than natural conspiracy. But
29:15
Speaker 2: my goodness, if it comes down to a point where
29:17
Speaker 2: one driver has to run interference for the other one,
29:19
Speaker 2: that'll be interesting.
29:20
Speaker 1: Voted it will be and we will wait and see.
29:22
Speaker 1: Four hours to go. As we've said, let's move to
29:25
Speaker 1: Move of the Week, brought to you by Shannon's no
29:28
Speaker 1: racing this weekend, Matt, I feel like this is this
29:30
Speaker 1: is the time for your move of the week. This
29:32
Speaker 1: is exactly the circumstances for a Matt Clayton move of
29:35
Speaker 1: the weak.
29:36
Speaker 2: This is prime Matt Clayton left field move of the
29:38
Speaker 2: week territory. So I'm so glad that there was no
29:40
Speaker 2: racing because I had a sleep and be because I
29:42
Speaker 2: can get a little bit lateral. I'm going to go
29:44
Speaker 2: two wheels this week with Moto GP Portugal is the
29:48
Speaker 2: second last race of this year's season, coming up this weekend.
29:51
Speaker 2: It was the second race of twenty twenty four. So
29:54
Speaker 2: if you're looking for calendar moves March twenty twenty four
29:56
Speaker 2: to November twenty twenty five, there's only been thirty eight
30:00
Speaker 2: rounds since the last time we were in Portugal, or
30:03
Speaker 2: if you like, seventy six starts, because we have sprints
30:06
Speaker 2: at every single round. So I love the fact that
30:08
Speaker 2: a this track is still on the calendar for Motor GP.
30:11
Speaker 2: It's not the best track in Motor GP. I think
30:13
Speaker 2: that's still Magello or Philip Island, but you remember this
30:16
Speaker 2: from when F one went there for a few years.
30:18
Speaker 2: It's got to be one of the most interesting tracks
30:20
Speaker 2: that appears on the World Motorsport calendar because of the
30:22
Speaker 2: absolutely insane elevation change that goes on all the way
30:26
Speaker 2: around this circuit, particularly for the bikes because they will
30:29
Speaker 2: actually get airborne several times over the course of a
30:32
Speaker 2: laugh of porch Maw, which we love. So move of
30:34
Speaker 2: the week for me is the what is that twenty
30:37
Speaker 2: odd month gap between Portuguese Grand Prix and the fact
30:40
Speaker 2: that's still on the calendar. That's a good move in
30:42
Speaker 2: my book, because any move away from Portamow for bikes
30:44
Speaker 2: would be a great, great shame. So that is Move
30:47
Speaker 2: of the week for me, and possibly as left field
30:50
Speaker 2: as I could make it, but I suggest you might
30:51
Speaker 2: have something that's slightly more sensible, if a little bit
30:54
Speaker 2: O two T no.
30:55
Speaker 1: I like it. I think that's very good. I'm going
30:58
Speaker 1: to involve all of our four wheeled, two of our
31:00
Speaker 1: four with motorsports, Formula One and Supercars. I'm giving move
31:03
Speaker 1: of the week Marinello in Italy to Brayside in suburban Melbourne.
31:08
Speaker 2: Not something you hear off.
31:10
Speaker 1: In fact, might be unprecedented. Lewis Hamilton's former performance engineer,
31:15
Speaker 1: Ricardo Corte, has moved to Grove Racing, where he will
31:18
Speaker 1: be race engineer for Kai Allen, a twenty year old
31:21
Speaker 1: Supercars debutante still in finals contention this year. He'll start
31:25
Speaker 1: work next year though in a little reshuffle at the
31:27
Speaker 1: Supercars team. But just a remarkable move and he's chosen
31:32
Speaker 1: to do this. He was sidelined as Lewis Hamilton's performance
31:36
Speaker 1: engineer before the break, I think after the British Grand
31:38
Speaker 1: Prix around about them, so he didn't, as you may
31:40
Speaker 1: have read, ditch Lewis Hamilton to become Kyle Allen's race engineer.
31:45
Speaker 1: Just respect to Kay Allen. He's a rookie though, but
31:48
Speaker 1: he did decide after he'd been sidelined that it was
31:50
Speaker 1: time to move on. For Ferrari, and he has decided
31:52
Speaker 1: he wants to move to Australia in general and more
31:56
Speaker 1: specifically Brayside. I guess the industrial powerhouse Melbourne's East. But
32:02
Speaker 1: it's a great move obviously for Grove. They're getting a
32:04
Speaker 1: Formula One experienced engineer, performance engineer who's I think going
32:08
Speaker 1: to make a great contribution to a team that's already
32:10
Speaker 1: on the up. Obviously, the Bathist winning team this year
32:13
Speaker 1: second in the team's championship, Matt Payne's still one of
32:16
Speaker 1: the key title contenders, and Alan also a title contender
32:20
Speaker 1: still in the final system. So we shouldn't assume just
32:23
Speaker 1: because this team is not called Triple Ace it can't
32:25
Speaker 1: win a title in near future. It's a great move
32:29
Speaker 1: for Grove, and you know what, a little bit of
32:31
Speaker 1: Italian flare to the Melbourne Eastern suburbs is no bad.
32:34
Speaker 2: Good news for the coffee makers and cafes of gray Side.
32:39
Speaker 2: I dare say there'll be a bit of a test
32:41
Speaker 2: cases where can I get my best stop your espresso
32:43
Speaker 2: after dealing with them in the Ferrari workshop for several years.
32:47
Speaker 2: But yeah, that is not a move, a excellent, excellent
32:50
Speaker 2: work to turn that into a move of the week.
32:51
Speaker 2: Also not a move that we have heard before, and
32:53
Speaker 2: I would suggest probably never again.
32:55
Speaker 1: Yes, well, maybe it'll go really well and suddenly there'll
32:57
Speaker 1: be a little traffic cost, the start of a trend
33:00
Speaker 1: between central northern Italy and Melbourne. Who's to say it
33:04
Speaker 1: can't happen.
33:05
Speaker 2: Who knows.
33:05
Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, Mapp, I want to look at
33:07
Speaker 1: one of the other quiet battles still to go for
33:10
Speaker 1: the last four rounds of the season. We have spend
33:12
Speaker 1: too long on this because I think it's a commit
33:13
Speaker 1: evolving battle and it's too close to be decided this weekend.
33:16
Speaker 1: But second in the Constructors Championship, Yes it is the
33:20
Speaker 1: first of the losers, one could say, but someone's got
33:24
Speaker 1: to do it, and I think it's I haven't decided,
33:26
Speaker 1: and I'll be interested to hear your opinion on this
33:29
Speaker 1: whether it will be a good outcome for heav Finish's
33:32
Speaker 1: second in a tight battle between Ferrari Mercedes and Red
33:35
Speaker 1: Bull Racings only ten points, spreading all three of those teams,
33:39
Speaker 1: or what it'll say about the drive, the team that
33:42
Speaker 1: achieves it, and what was missing from them either contending
33:45
Speaker 1: for first place obviously with McLaren or even if they
33:48
Speaker 1: finished third or fourth. We've got Ferrari leading this remarkably,
33:51
Speaker 1: I think, considering the team as yet to win a
33:54
Speaker 1: Grand Prix. On three und fifty six points, Mercedes is
33:56
Speaker 1: just one point further back, having lost second in mex
34:00
Speaker 1: Go with a pretty honorary race there, and then Red
34:02
Speaker 1: Bull Racing ten points behind. Now Red Bull Racing is
34:06
Speaker 1: there pretty much only because of Max Verstappen. He is
34:09
Speaker 1: scored all but I think twenty five of the team's
34:12
Speaker 1: points something like that. Mercedes is there despite having one
34:15
Speaker 1: and a half cars, I guess, considering how many races
34:18
Speaker 1: Andre Kimi Antonelli failed to score in during the European
34:21
Speaker 1: leg of the season in particular, and then Ferrari second
34:24
Speaker 1: despite not being that good. So I don't know who
34:28
Speaker 1: who who Who's best off winning second? It's a hard one.
34:32
Speaker 2: Now. When I knew we were going to talk about this,
34:34
Speaker 2: I did dust off the calculator and plug a few
34:36
Speaker 2: numbers in for you, so for you and everyone listening,
34:38
Speaker 2: so far, so Ferrari three to fifty six points, Charla
34:41
Speaker 2: clur scored fifty nine percent of those. Therefore, Lewis Hamilton
34:44
Speaker 2: forty one percent, Mercedes three hundred and fifty five points,
34:47
Speaker 2: George Russell seventy three percent of that tally, Kimmi Antonelli
34:50
Speaker 2: twenty seven percent, Red Bull Racing three hundred and forty
34:53
Speaker 2: six points, or if you would like, Max Verstappen ninety
34:56
Speaker 2: three percent of that tally, and between them, Yuki Sonoda
34:59
Speaker 2: and Liam As have contributed seven percent. So that was
35:01
Speaker 2: nice of those two to do that. It's seven more
35:03
Speaker 2: percent that you and I, which is to say, not
35:05
Speaker 2: a great deal what these three talies say to me
35:09
Speaker 2: when you look at these numbers like this, If Ferrari
35:13
Speaker 2: does not finish second in the Constructors World Championship, yes
35:15
Speaker 2: we know they've not won a Grand Prix this year,
35:17
Speaker 2: when you look at the fact that Mercedes is running
35:19
Speaker 2: a rookie and a guy who hasn't scored a lot
35:21
Speaker 2: of points in a lot of races, and Repell Racing
35:23
Speaker 2: has been a one car team for twenty rounds. If
35:26
Speaker 2: Ferrari can not finish second in this year's Constructors Championship,
35:30
Speaker 2: given the names they have driving those two cars, and
35:32
Speaker 2: I em becize the word names because Lewis Hamilton has
35:35
Speaker 2: had a pretty sort of a season as a rookie.
35:38
Speaker 2: En red if you like, if Ferrari don't finish second,
35:41
Speaker 2: given the baked in advantages they should have in this
35:45
Speaker 2: three team fight where the other two teams are so
35:48
Speaker 2: obviously flawed, what does that say about Ferrari if you
35:51
Speaker 2: can't even finish second in the Constructors Championship with a driver.
35:53
Speaker 1: Lineup like that, Yeah, a driver lineup that's really dragging
35:57
Speaker 1: along a car that, as we've seen, isn't really capable
35:59
Speaker 1: of winning, capable of pole position. You know, I think
36:03
Speaker 1: if they win a couple of races, or at least
36:05
Speaker 1: one race in the second part of the second part
36:07
Speaker 1: of your last four races, I mean, I think they'll
36:10
Speaker 1: be in that territory we've talked about often, which is
36:12
Speaker 1: the almost the honorable second place that gives you a
36:14
Speaker 1: little bit of false hope for next year. I think
36:17
Speaker 1: if Red Bull, also fred Bull Racing, finishes second, and
36:21
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see what the margin is to first,
36:23
Speaker 1: that also highlights only you know, there'll be a lot
36:26
Speaker 1: of there'll be a lot of you know, bigging up
36:29
Speaker 1: that result. I guess for what of a bigger word,
36:30
Speaker 1: because they'll have come from quite far back, they've had
36:33
Speaker 1: a pretty ordinary middle part of the season. Or even
36:34
Speaker 1: maxwis stapp and thought he couldn't win the driver's title. Obviously,
36:37
Speaker 1: if the team wins, the driver's tied a little bit
36:38
Speaker 1: sold as a good year. Be good year for Max, certainly,
36:41
Speaker 1: but only underlines how much of a disaster that second
36:45
Speaker 1: seat has been for the team in recent years that
36:47
Speaker 1: it couldn't win. Presumably it would have been able to
36:49
Speaker 1: win the Constructors Championship had had a driver operating at
36:52
Speaker 1: at forty percent let's say, of the points of maxwith
36:55
Speaker 1: Stappen to use the Ferrari percentages there. I think the
36:57
Speaker 1: only team that would feel satisfied, if you like, about
37:02
Speaker 1: finishing second is Mercedes because their second driver problem is
37:06
Speaker 1: a wilful gamble. Isn't it that they knew they were
37:08
Speaker 1: going to suffer this year with Antonelli being so green,
37:11
Speaker 1: but that it'll be for a long term benefit.
37:13
Speaker 2: Well, and he's only going I mean, you would suggest
37:16
Speaker 2: someone of his talent and once he gets the experience
37:18
Speaker 2: under his belt, he's only going to get better. This
37:20
Speaker 2: might be the worst version of Kimmie Antonelli we see
37:22
Speaker 2: if his career tracks along as we suspect it will be.
37:26
Speaker 2: But you look at you know the interesting thing for me,
37:28
Speaker 2: if Rebell Racing is able to finish second, doesn't that
37:31
Speaker 2: almost guarantee that Max Mustaven wins the World Championship? Quite frankly,
37:34
Speaker 2: because if he's scoring enough points to haul a one
37:38
Speaker 2: car team into second place in the Constructors' Championship, therefore
37:41
Speaker 2: scoring the points that Ferrari and Mercedes don't over these
37:44
Speaker 2: last four races, that's going to be a significant slab
37:47
Speaker 2: of points that could absolutely make him world champion. So
37:50
Speaker 2: it's a really interesting ten points between three teams, but
37:54
Speaker 2: there's different storylines between the three. If Ferrari don't finish second,
37:58
Speaker 2: it's a massive fail for them. Mercedes will be pretty
38:01
Speaker 2: wrapped if they do finish second because they've carried a
38:03
Speaker 2: rookie for the entire year. But if they don't, they've
38:05
Speaker 2: got the baked in excuse. And as you said about
38:08
Speaker 2: Red Bull Racing, even if they had it doesn't even
38:10
Speaker 2: need to be a Lewis Hamilton percentage contribution to the
38:13
Speaker 2: overall team tally. Imagine if they had a driver that
38:16
Speaker 2: was scoring twenty seven percent of the team's points like
38:18
Speaker 2: Antonelli is from Mercedes, red Bull probably finished the second
38:20
Speaker 2: in the constructors Championship pretty comfortably. So yeah, it does
38:23
Speaker 2: highlight what an absolute debarkle that second seat has been
38:26
Speaker 2: at Red Bull quite frankly since Daniel Riccardo left. It's
38:29
Speaker 2: a problem. They've just filtered different names through. It hasn't
38:32
Speaker 2: been resolved. We're still looking here in November wondering what
38:36
Speaker 2: they're going to do in twenty twenty six A and B,
38:38
Speaker 2: wondering if that's going to make any difference or whatsoever.
38:41
Speaker 2: Because this is just the story of Red Bull Racing
38:43
Speaker 2: since they had the very early Max Mistaff and Daniel
38:45
Speaker 2: Riccardo partnership that was twenty eighteen, it's basically ancient history
38:50
Speaker 2: at this point. So yeah, interesting fight. But if Ferrari
38:53
Speaker 2: can't finish second with that driver lineup, then there's some
38:55
Speaker 2: questions there, isn't there.
38:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a good call. And on the
38:58
Speaker 1: vistab and title od, I think they could STI finish
39:00
Speaker 1: second without him winning because the difference is only ten points.
39:03
Speaker 1: But I think if they finish, I think would highlight
39:06
Speaker 1: you know, if he had a driver scoring, as you say,
39:08
Speaker 1: even twenty seven percent of his points, those points would
39:11
Speaker 1: have come presumably some of them off McLaren drivers, and
39:13
Speaker 1: he would have then won the driver's title. So whether
39:15
Speaker 1: or not he does it, if that team finishes second,
39:18
Speaker 1: you can say, you know, in a week in which
39:21
Speaker 1: we've been talking about moral Championship victories because of Felipe
39:24
Speaker 1: Mass's legal action in the UK courts in two thousand
39:27
Speaker 1: and eight, you could call Max for Staffan the moral
39:29
Speaker 1: victor if only his team had cared enough to put
39:33
Speaker 1: a more competitive driver or fix that second car. Maybe
39:35
Speaker 1: it's not just the driver, it is the fact that
39:38
Speaker 1: no one seems capable of driving that other car. That
39:41
Speaker 1: will be costing them. You can start telling up how
39:43
Speaker 1: many championship it's cost them, Probably cost them the constructor
39:45
Speaker 1: started last year. Maybe it's going to cost them both
39:47
Speaker 1: this year with a car that, despite its problems in
39:49
Speaker 1: the middle of the campaign, had the capacity to do
39:52
Speaker 1: the business perhaps and maybe still can do some of
39:54
Speaker 1: it well.
39:55
Speaker 2: And as we've read in recent weeks, it does show
39:57
Speaker 2: you what a great job Sergio Perez was doing just
39:59
Speaker 2: ask Surgerio. He'll tell you.
40:02
Speaker 1: Maybe it could be a moral JVD himself. Oh yes,
40:05
Speaker 1: all right, before we wrap up, let's go to the
40:07
Speaker 1: crystal ball, brought to you by Complete home Filtration. There
40:11
Speaker 1: was no racing at the weekend, but there'll be no
40:13
Speaker 1: shortage of racing between here and almost Christmas. To be honest,
40:16
Speaker 1: at least halfway through December. We've got both MURDERGIVN Formula
40:20
Speaker 1: One this weekend, Supercars the weekend after. What are you predicting?
40:23
Speaker 2: All right, so we've got maxvastap and I'm looking at
40:25
Speaker 2: here because he's thirty six points off the series lead.
40:29
Speaker 2: Now you mentioned is a sprint weekend or as now
40:31
Speaker 2: we're just calling it F one sprint. I'm looking forward
40:33
Speaker 2: to F one sprint. Say, a lot of the press
40:35
Speaker 2: release is heading into sal Plo this weekend. The fact
40:38
Speaker 2: we have a maximumber thirty three points available across the
40:41
Speaker 2: course of the weekend. My crystal ball's telling me that
40:44
Speaker 2: this stappens going to outscore both McLaren's this weekend and
40:46
Speaker 2: the lead is going to be below twenty five points
40:50
Speaker 2: after we leave intel Agos on Monday, boarding Australian time,
40:53
Speaker 2: which is less than one Grand Prix worth of points
40:56
Speaker 2: with three rounds to go, and one of those three
40:58
Speaker 2: rounds of course in Qatar a sprint. I think it's
41:01
Speaker 2: going to be within the realms that Maxvstappen could take
41:05
Speaker 2: the lead at the next round, because I think he's
41:06
Speaker 2: going to be twenty five points or below the series
41:09
Speaker 2: lead once we leave into Lagos, given the way Max's
41:12
Speaker 2: race to Interlagos in the past three race wins there,
41:15
Speaker 2: it's going to rain at Interlagos. Not exactly a news flash,
41:18
Speaker 2: but the latest forecast I saw was potential raid on
41:21
Speaker 2: Saturday and Sunday. He's good at that circuit in the dry,
41:24
Speaker 2: he's even better in the wet. So I feel very confident,
41:27
Speaker 2: despite having absolutely no crystal ball form whatsoever, that this
41:32
Speaker 2: one is actually going to hit for a change. But
41:34
Speaker 2: you've been on a decent run if we ignore the
41:37
Speaker 2: last episode, which you have just banished that from your
41:39
Speaker 2: ears everybody, But what's your crystal ball telling you?
41:42
Speaker 1: Yeah? I like that one. I'm going to say we
41:44
Speaker 1: are going to get at least one wet race, whether
41:47
Speaker 1: it is the Grand Prix or the in all in
41:49
Speaker 1: Capital's F one Sprint registered trademark. I believe on least
41:53
Speaker 1: one of those words. And I think that wet podium
41:56
Speaker 1: is going to feature no McLaren drivers on it. Oh boy,
41:59
Speaker 1: I think that's probably gonna tally very nicely with your
42:02
Speaker 1: prediction there that maxis staff and is certainly going to
42:04
Speaker 1: close some points. Not saying it would be the Grand
42:06
Speaker 1: Prix or the sprint podium. It seems like the Sprint's
42:08
Speaker 1: the more likely event to be wet, but we will see.
42:11
Speaker 1: It'll also been in a wet qualifying presumably, which will
42:13
Speaker 1: also be quite interesting.
42:14
Speaker 2: I do like it just for you. We've said this before.
42:17
Speaker 2: We cheer the narrative here. We love a good story,
42:19
Speaker 2: and yeah, this is building quite nicely to the boil.
42:21
Speaker 2: And I'm glad that if one races it into Lagoso
42:23
Speaker 2: any time. But when you've got a weather forecast like
42:26
Speaker 2: this and a championship as finally poised as this one is,
42:29
Speaker 2: then bring it on.
42:30
Speaker 1: It is exciting. But that's all the time we have
42:32
Speaker 1: for pit Talk today. You can subscribe to Pittalk wherever
42:35
Speaker 1: you get your favorite podcast, and you can leave us
42:37
Speaker 1: a rating and review as well. This weekend is the
42:40
Speaker 1: Portuguese Motorcycle Grand Prix at midnight Sunday night, followed by
42:45
Speaker 1: the Formula one South Paolo Grand Prix at four am.
42:48
Speaker 1: That's on Monday. You can keep up to date with
42:50
Speaker 1: all the latest F one, Modo, GP and supercars news
42:53
Speaker 1: at Foxsports dot com dot au from Matt Clayton and me,
42:56
Speaker 1: Michael Lomonado. Thanks very much for your company and we'll
42:58
Speaker 1: get you next week