Latest / Surviving-ISH Podcast / Algorithms, Ex-Fundamentalism & Fake Bible Facts w/ guest Daniel Alzate

Transcript

Algorithms, Ex-Fundamentalism & Fake Bible Facts w/ guest Daniel Alzate · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Surviving Ish.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was just telling Daniel who's with us today.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's been with us before, but I we just had what?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: A 30-minute conversation off record.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why are we not recording this?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: This would have been such a great, like, mini episode because we kind of did get a little political, but it wasn't like I'm right, you're wrong.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I believe.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was just in the political sphere, uh, sphere of things.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why are we not recording this?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So finally I was like, okay, screw it.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're hitting record and we're just gonna talk.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: But you to the listener, you have been on Unholier, you've been live with us on TikTok, and you have been on Ish.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm gonna put all the links to all those in the show notes because some of the conversations um that we have or or things that we may refer to, you may have needed to have heard those episodes first to really get the full context of things.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So those will be provided to you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: But Daniel, my friend, I'm surprised you're here.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Surprised?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because we were supposed to meet what a last week?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I messaged you and I was like, hey, I came to get my oil changed and I'm buying a new car instead.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was there for five hours.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: But damn it, in my defense, I take my car to because I get like free oil changes or whatever when I bought my previous car.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I take it back to the dealership.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was out walking around, they're like, Yeah, your car's up in like 15 minutes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just kind of walking around, texting, playing game on my phone, looking at cars, and this really cute guy walked up to me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Hey, what's going on?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I bought a car.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So cute guy will change David Boss car.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to message him and was like, Oh, can we reschedule?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry that happened.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blaming the cute guy.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blaming him.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your uh grace and kindness and understanding and patience and all that.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: But before we get started, what are you surviving-ish?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what I was surviving, so we recently moved into a new house that's way farther away from work.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we used to live Yeah, thanks.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: We moved, so we used to live like six minutes from our job.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh be just a very quick drive.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now our drive is like 25 to 30 minutes, um, which is that is a bummer, and so traffic tends to get on my nerves, especially people driving slow.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, you're in the fast lane.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: What I did is I said it's a reversal, an issue reversal, right?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Recently, what I've been doing, of course, I can always listen to podcasts and stuff on the way.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've been listening to like language learning software so I can improve my Spanish.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I can stumble along when I need to in Spanish, but I've been listening to some more advanced learning software so I can increase my Spanish level so that I can maybe, and I I haven't said any anything to anybody about this yet.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: This is just first here.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've been considering putting out some Spanish language TikToks about deconstruction and stuff like that.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So brilliant.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's not a whole lot of voices in the Spanish-speaking world for that.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh to the listener, in case in case they haven't heard your previous episode, you your your father is it is that right, your father speaks Spanish?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right, he's Colombian.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm Colombian on my dad's side.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: I look more like my mom's side, but uh if you see my dad, you'll see.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: But does he also speak English?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he was so my my grandparents, Mayabuelo and Auela, moved over from Colombia uh like when Mayabela was pregnant with him, basically.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So he was born technically in New Jersey.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: He did his first language was still technically Spanish, but then he learned English as growing up in New Jersey, and then they moved to Miami and he grew up further there, went to high school there, met my mom, etc.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: But uh so he speaks both Spanish and English perfectly fluently, no accent either way.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, you won't wouldn't even know that he's fluent in Spanish unless you are also and you talk to him and you're like, oh, whoa, okay.
• 4:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I uh which we're gonna get more into what you're doing on social media.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're gonna get more into that in a little bit.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think that I think that's brilliant.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I it's been something that it I think is so under like it's there's just so little in that space for those who speak primarily Spanish.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And also I like learning, anyways, so that yeah, using that that ish, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And using it in a way that is sort of it's more beneficial instead, helped me reframe something that was annoying me before.
• 5:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's kind of the point to all this, in my opinion, of why I wanted to do this is because I wanted those spur the moment.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I try to like make a list of of these grievances, but I've maybe used five out of the hundred because before I get on a show, something else ends up becoming, and I'm like, oh, that's what I'm talking about.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I need to I need to talk to my buddy Daniel and vent about this with what just happened in this past 15 minutes before we hit record or before we jumped on.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I've barely even used the ones that I tried to pre-list just to have backups for.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: What sparked us for me is I found that I had crazy road rage.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the universe happens in crazy ass ways.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had on a psychologist, and my itch was road rage.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, you know, this is related to your trauma, right?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Yeah, and so we kind of broke it down and discussed it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh wow.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so my road rage has calmed down a bit, unless you're driving someone the fast lane.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's a forgiveness with that, it's straight to jail.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, straight to jail immediately.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm fine if you do life.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Driver's license revoked, you can take the greyhound.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So before we get into the bigger topic, here's what I'm surviving ish.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I already kind of said one in the intro with the fact.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm surviving isch is me right now that there's something going on with me that I haven't been able to figure out just yet.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: But there's gonna be a lot of growth in it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be that ish reverse, which brings me to when you were talking about the reverse-ish.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Before that, we were talking about kind of like palette cleansers.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe instead of calling them palette cleanser episodes.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have the reverse-ish episodes, which are palette cleansers.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I might still steal that from you.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Have your people contact my people, we'll disguise.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I like that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided that I wanted to uh redo the outside of my house.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um just a little lift, you know, just a little paint here and there.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I had a deck built, which I love.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I had it done like eight months ago.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the wood has not been seasoned, the constructioners called it today, um, which is time to paint.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm also in a place where I'm like, I can do some of this myself.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I go and I buy paint and I get home from work today, I have dinner, I look at the clock, and I'm like, I've got like 20 minutes before you and I are to jump on and record.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna paint.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I open the paint, I get a brush, I don't tape anything.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, eh, the the mowers will mow and it'll be fine if the if paints get out of the grass.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think and I even gave myself a talk of David, you're gonna take your time and you're gonna do this right.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have patience.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a liar.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I lied to myself.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so finally, I'm like, so one of the one of my painter friends was like, no, you need like a little, like one of those little like they're you know, just like three inches long, but it's also a roller because I have like the picket fence thing on my deck.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh, this will be perfect for that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I forgot.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I just bought like a regular paintbrush.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So then I think, oh, well, then I just take it, I just, you know, like run it across, but well, paint goes everywhere.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have paint on my uh jeans that I love, which I'm not too mad at that because it kind of adds to the character because I've had them for like four or five years, but I just got this shirt the other day from a friend of mine who owns a company um that does shirts, and uh so it says, which this episode won't come out on the 4th of July, but it'll come out in July, so it's still kind of fitting.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it says happy birthday, America.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, sorry, the party is so lame.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that there's there's just little punts and jokes, but I'm gonna show the link uh because he's helping me with my merch, so I'll show the link to all this stuff in the show notes as well.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I got paint on it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have paint, I have more paint on my hands than that's on the deck, all in 10 minutes of painting, Daniel.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I've done a little bit of painting in my time, so I know I know the struggle.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's rough.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I even told myself, we're gonna have patience.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna, we're just going to enjoy this.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: A new album came out from one of my favorite artists.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I now know every song by heart, so I was like, we're just gonna play it out loud, you know, in the yard, and we'll sing and and we'll just have like a lovely time, and so it's time to jump on and record with Daniel.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would I don't know if I thought, okay, I've got 10 minutes and I can have this whole deck, which is the size of my house, I can have this whole thing done before I get on the uh on the call with Daniel.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was very ambitious.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Very wrong.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to send you a picture when we get off.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to send you a picture of what I accomplished versus what the goal is versus uh what I thought I was going to accomplish in the 10 minutes.
• 11:23
  unknown: Right.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'm at.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know how this is connected to my trauma, I would love for you to tell me.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: If not, we can move on to the next subject.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't I don't think I can uh psychoanalyze that in any way.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the next episode, I'm gonna have a therapist on.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you can join us if you'd like.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was disconnected.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Daniel, like I uh we've had a lot of you know lovely conversations between, like I said, you on Unholier and TikTok.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I follow you.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: You have recently started doing a new series.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I would like you to do, in case there is a new listener that hasn't listened to your first episode yet, give us just a brief little background of where you're coming from leading to this new uh series that you're doing on TikTok that's doing really well and getting some traction, if you don't mind.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I started off in a what some people call a religious cult.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: It certainly had cult-like tendencies for sure.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but it was a uh very uh fundamentalist Christian sect.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I left it a few years ago, and then since then I I sort of I wanted to share my story a little bit and then be able to help people feel like they're not alone if they're going through something similar and maybe help people to think a little bit if they if they're still stuck, because it's hard to see the fog when you're still in the fog.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: When you come out of it, it's a lot easier to see.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So now that I'm out of it, I'm trying to bring up some information that hopefully people will be able to see that they're in the fog and try to draw them out a little bit, and then, like I said, help the people who are drawing out to try to feel like they're not completely alone in this, because I certainly felt very, very alone when I went through it myself.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I started a series, at least initially, called Silly Things I Used to Believe When I Was a Christian, and I tried to do it from within a Christian mindset, within like a mindset of taking the Bible seriously and stuff, even though I don't actually think it's literally true.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: I tried to think back if I knew some of the things that I know now, back then, how I can sort of reframe it.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: So silly things I used to believe when I was a Christian, and then uh I sort of moved on and did a little a very short Bible contradictions uh series.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: I could do more eventually, I probably will.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: But recently I also did a three or four videos where I'm reacting and responding to Christian content creators to sort of show them where I disagree and where I think that they're going wrong.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that will, of course, lead us into that latest video I did.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which I do have questions about that one.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: But before we do, I love that this came to the way that it did.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so did you think that you were just gonna do like one and see what happens and that you wouldn't do any more, but then there ended up being traction, and people were because people are responsive to it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I I actually I've always had these things, even when I was still in church, where I I was like I would scratch my head and be like, you know that's wrong, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm hearing like a sermon, and I try I've tried throughout most of my life to be a critical thinker, but that's hard to juggle when you're still like stuck in this sort of cultish mindset.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's very difficult when you've been like heavily indoctrinated, and you also you're also very curious, more like naturally.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's hard to juggle those.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: But even when I was young, I would have questions or have things when I would hear in a sermon and be like, I don't think you thought that through because that doesn't seem to be true at all.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so um when I decided to maybe put out okay, silly things I used to believe when I was a Christian, I immediately had like 10 things that came to me, like immediately.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew at least I wanted to make some of those and just see what happens.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: If nothing happens from it, then it is what it is.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm having a lot of fun with it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Have you started receiving any negative feedback from it?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Not because the content, but because people are being defensive of of their religion and belief.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, there was an arc and there was only two apes, you know, which which is uh which is something I want us to discuss.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have you started having that kind of feedback yet, or has everything been pretty positive?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: So the TikTok comments are more positive.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I posted several of them on my um my YouTube page as well, which is the same meaning, uh same name, Daniel de la Noche.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: But the the YouTube comments are like all very, very angry.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like almost every comment is like, you're wrong, how dare you?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: You were never a real Christian, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like you guys are just children at this point.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're just throwing tantrums in the comment section.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's no need for that.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: But continue, I guess.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for the engagement on my content.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: I guess.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, good or bad, you're getting me out into the algorithm.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have found where, you know, I told you how I started doing like little political segments and or political little mini episodes on TikTok, lovely.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Facebook, like people were tagging me and mad because I had a clip about wanting to feed children.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: This dude named Brian Bryan said to me, Um, why do you always sing while you talk?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking about wanting children to be fat and he says that I sing when I talk, and I said, I said, which I'm trying to not read the comments or respond to them at all, period, even the good ones, because I want to treat everyone equally, and because they do hurt my feelings sometimes and bring me down, and I refuse to let that happen.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: But but I said, I said, I don't know, I guess it's just my voice and and weird things happen, such as your name is Brian Brian.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, come on, dude.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, who's probably a bot, but I keep trying to tell myself that if I'm getting into the algorithm where these bots are fighting me to respond, then I'm doing something right, which in their eyes means I'm doing something very, very wrong.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but what I'm also learning too is the type of generation that is active in certain social medias, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So like on TikTok, where there's a a younger, more open-minded, diverse kind of group, there's absolutely you can get some ugly stuff from there too.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: But for the most part, it's usually pretty even even if there's a disagreement, it's it's handled safely.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: As to where Facebook, like I woke up one day and I talked about uh me being uh raped and attacked and uh and almost murdered by a straight guy, and and it was a little clip about that just of my story, and I woke up to an abundance of messages of people wanting to find me and finish the job.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Facebook.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's crazy.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But so uh your idea with this the first thing I thought of when when I was scrolling through and and you popped up on my FYP, you said things I used to believe when I was a Christian.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me about this title, right?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So so does that mean that you do not identify as Christian any longer, but you still believe?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and does that mean that you just you don't believe these things anymore, that there's truth still behind it somehow?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like what what what was your what was your thoughts on this title for this for the series?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I certainly don't identify as a Christian anymore, but I don't actually necessarily believe in any God or supernatural realm anymore.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be willing to if I saw good evidence.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to be honestly, I'd love to be wrong about that.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to find one day that there is some sort of supernatural realm going on.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: But uh currently I don't I don't like actively believe in it.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and certainly I think Christianity is is demonstrably incorrect, actually.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: I have very specific reasons for that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I even mentioned them in, or at least four of them, in one of my recent videos.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I think Christianity is well the thing is I don't hate Christians, and this is what people don't understand a lot of times.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not mad.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh most of my loved ones, like my family especially, are very, very deep in the uh in the same sort of fundamentalist Christian like movement that I was.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not I'm not angry, I don't hate them, nothing like that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just wish that they could see the problems that the the the reason why they have to have cognitive dissonance about learning different ideas, the fact that they have to avoid learning certain things about history and science, because if they did, then they'd realize that a lot of what they believe is incorrect.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so this series, hopefully, will show people at least what I found to be incorrect, things that I used to believe that I no longer believe, not just because I'm not a Christian anymore, but also because they're just demonstrably wrong.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't say things that are stupid.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: I used to believe, and I'm because I'm not stupid anymore, I don't believe it's not nothing like this.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: I literally go out, first of all, I say silly because I don't want it to be taken super seriously, but or as an attack, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: What I want to do is say, I used to believe this, I think it's silly, and here's why I think it's silly.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just name calling or throwing shade.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm specifically saying, look, I think this belief is silly.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I used to have this belief, but here's why I wouldn't now, even if I was a Christian, or this is why I wouldn't be a Christian anymore, things like that.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just want people to understand why I think it's silly, and maybe they can have a little bit of critical thinking of their own and see a little bit of what I'm seeing, hopefully.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and that's what I love about this approach, right?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I in in the past uh couple years now, identify as an atheist.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: I do not, and what I what I feel like what you're telling me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but what I feel like you're telling me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Me is you're not trying to tell these people that they're wrong.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're not trying to convert anyone.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're not trying to, you want them to have their critical thinking for them to figure out themselves.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: If they still, if they think about it and they still want to believe that, fine.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: If my my thing is with religion, I don't care what you believe in.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if you think God is this whatever.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: But don't try to force me to believe what you believe.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Stop telling me that your religion is the only one that is correct.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Don't give me the ultimatum that I have to love this person or or this being in order to not burn for eternity, because I don't do narcissistic shit very well.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um the creation, the creator that they're identifying and describing, um he doesn't sound that great.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm not into it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if he's good for you, if that is good for you, I want you to have that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: If that gives you comfort, if that gives you security in some kind of way, I want you to have that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I won't take it away from you.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Don't force me to have it because I will never knock on your door and tell you, let me show you the way to being an atheist.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: If I have questions on how to become a Christian, if I want to believe what Bob next door believes, I will knock on his door and I will say, Help me, help me.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want this for me.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Until I do that, you be you, let me be me, and we're all gonna be fine.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to take away from you.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Don't force you down me.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: The funny thing is, I actually wouldn't mind if people knocked on my door to like try to reconvert me.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think it would kind of be fun.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, I think it would be fun because I know the Bible most likely better than they do.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So And that's the thing.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: They would have to be open to have like if someone knocked on my door and wanted to just sit down on my porch and have a lovely conversation where they were open-minded to my side of things of maybe why I don't believe, as well as I pay them that same respect of what I do believe.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: If we can have that conversation, run it, let's do it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love those conversations, right?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the minute I say I'm atheist, if they don't walk away, they say, Well, you know what happens to atheist, and they paint this fire for me, right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like so, and I'm sorry, I I probably interrupted you, but I I know like knock on my door, let's have a conversation if we can have a conversation.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I found that ever since I left, the people who knew me well when I from before that don't want to have that conversation really because they would feel it's too uncomfortable.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Even like my siblings, they don't want to they don't want to talk about it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Most of them take it very seriously still.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I had one of my siblings ask me one question about something I think about.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really get into it exactly what he asked me, but he asked me one question.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: I answered as well as I could, and from my current perspective, and then he was like, and he could you could sort of see like the wheels turning, like that makes more sense than I was expecting.
• 25:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then he doesn't want to talk about it anymore.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand that's fair.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I I love my siblings regardless of whether or not they're willing to listen, obviously, because I don't I don't bring it up like when we go to like my mom's place for Christmas or my dad's place for like Thanksgiving or whatever.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't bring it up.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just if you want to talk about it, I'm well I'm open.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't, then that's cool too.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just be family, we'll try to just have a normal, nice holiday.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just I find it so breathtaking, the fragility, the insecurity that people have in their faith in Christianity.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: If your faith was that strong, you could handle little of me saying, I don't believe it.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: You could handle little of me saying, I'm not sure if the ARC story is really true.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I and I know this is probably a bad comparison, right?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: But like if I came to you and I said, you know, Reuben McIntyre is my number one, I know every song by heart.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a song that I don't like, I know them I pull one out of a hat right now and I can sing it to you.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you said, I don't like her, I I don't like this, I don't like that, these lyrics are bad.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like I have to defend that.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm you're not gonna change my mind.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I still think she's my number one, and I'm just gonna listen to that amazing song, without you, you lose.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because I'm confident in my love for her, I'm confident in my respect for her music, I'm confident in what it gives me.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't get the same message that I got, then fine.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fair.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but what I will do, or what a Christian would do, is they would say, We're staying on the Zoom until you, until I've changed your mind and you believe in God.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell me right now you hate Reba.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I I would move past that and I would, but I would still have this conversation and I would hang up from our Zoom call when we're done, and I would listen to a Reba song and sing it to the top of my lungs, just like I would do if you said you loved Reba.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it changes nothing.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm secure at what Reba's music does for me.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I know this is a lot because I'm not in a Reba cult.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Reba's not a cult leader, so I know it, I know it's a lame comparison, but like that's just what I wrap my mind around.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't have to defend this that I have, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: That I love that brings me peace and joy.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need you to love Reba for me to have peace and joy with what I feel when I listen to her songs.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I I will say, and I I want to sort of interject this a little bit.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Please.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: There is somebody very close to me, one of my loved ones, who actually saw the episode that I was on with you completely unrelated.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't, I hadn't even like posted it or anything to like my Facebook.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: He just called me out of the blue one day.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I saw you on this surviving-ish podcast, and I wanted to chat with you a little bit about different things or whatever.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So he actually is, and it's weird, he's actually a pastor son.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I won't say his name.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know who you are.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Much love, buddy.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Much love.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: But he called me up and he's, I understand how you feel.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, he was trying to empathize a little bit with me, and we had a great conversation.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very grateful for the fact that he, first of all, even listened to the podcast because he comes from a very like hyper-fundamentalist kind of background, just like most of my family and all the people that I was really, really close with.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: All of them were just, I mean, I was only close with people in the that particular Christian movement.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't really close with anybody else outside of like a couple of jujitsu friends, because I do Brazilian jujitsu, right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Outside of that, my only friends were just people in the church, people in a very, very fundamentalistic type of Christian movement.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that he just stumbled across it somehow, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I have no idea.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if he's listening again, if he ever wanted to uh join me for a conversation, or if there could ever be a conversation that me and Daniel, if Daniel was willing for all three of us to have together, I would love that.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I always tell, and I think I even said this to you before, Daniel, is I don't want to hang out with a hundred Davids because I'm never gonna lie, right?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to hang out with all kinds of kinds.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have these conversations with people that that have the best of intent and and the where where respect can be given.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need uh that there was a conversation I had the other day with someone, and uh the the gist of the conversation is I'm not as a gay man, I'm not asking for more rights or privilege.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm asking for equal.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm asking I'm not asking for you to like that does not mean you have to shake my hand.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you have to come over to my house for dinner, it doesn't mean we have to be besties and and like each other's shit on Facebook.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: But you can you you can respect my existence.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means you turn your head and walk past me at Kroger, fine.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't walk past you at Kroger, David.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, of course you wouldn't.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: But but but but if if someone of course, of course, yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: But why does that mean that I should be less than because you wouldn't want to just ignore me.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: All I'm asking, it I'm gonna give you permission to ignore me.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to be basties.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: The general you.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: You and I, we do have to be basties.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right, of course, but but I it like I just can't wrap my mind around these things, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't want I want people to have Christianity if that brings them comfort, if that brings them peace, if it's used the right way, you know, um when when when it's used to hurt people, I do have an issue with that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that goes back to the whole like morals and values conversation that we had kind of off record, you know, it before we can assign a title to something, it's like now it's morals and values.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's where I want to be proactive in saying, no, sir.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: So with that being said, you've done these videos, they've involved to other things.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um before we discuss what they've involved to where where you do stitches with with other creators, I want to talk about how when you you're probably not having to grasp very far to find the things that you find silly that you believed in, right?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because you said the minute I thought about doing this, I immediately had 10.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there's been times that I've done a recording and I've just been freely speaking, and then I'm like, oh, I just said it out loud.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I didn't realize I felt that way, which led to a whole other episode.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So have you had those moments where you're like, okay, here's gonna be a 10-part series, but then you find that like, oh crap, while I was recording this, I found out that I'm I also think this is silly.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, tell me about your process with that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, like the first one I ever thought I ever did was that the Bible is the word of God.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the problems with that are pretty simple.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: The Bible talks about the word of God, but while the Bible was being written, the Bible didn't exist.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: So the word of whatever they were talking about, the word of God definitely wasn't the Bible.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't call it that.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Additionally, or at least you're using it in a way different way than anybody who wrote the Bible actually meant it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: But if you look at how it's used, also that term is just used for generally an orally delivered message by a prophet, generally speaking, right?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like a written thing necessarily.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and even like the Jewish canon, like the Hebrew scriptures, back in Jesus' time, they weren't even like a single canonized thing where it's only it's all these books and only these books.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: That was really wasn't a thing at the time.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so as I did that, I was the first one I did, and then immediately I was thinking other things that I used to believe about the Bible and about specifically like the King James Version, for example.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went and did a video on that, and I kept thinking about more and more things.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: My list, I have a list in my notes, uh, my notes app, and I have there's probably like 35.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I have plenty of material to go on if I want to continue.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would love to have an episode with me, you and Jenny.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh especially with you doing these series, because Jeanny and I have talked about this.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So another question I have for you, which is still related, but it might be shifting gears just for a second, is when when it comes to deconstruction with the conversations you've had with the people that you know and what you've personally experienced, do you find a difference in the uh ability to deconstruct based on gender?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because and and and and what I mean by that is I find that my my personal opinion, right?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Not a doctor, nothing like that, but my personal opinion in in the stories that I've listened to from both genders, that men seem to have the hardest time.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: It could be, could be.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: That does make a little bit of sense with sort of like uh on average male psychology.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, psychology differs in varying and crazy ways, but like on average, men tend to take harder, more strict stances on things.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then uh women tend to be a little bit more maybe adaptable, is one of the one of the ways to say it, or you know, yeah, I think you know, under I think adaptable is probably a good way.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think that's a great descriptive and also respectable word for it.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and there's nothing wrong with taking a hard stance on things, and there's nothing wrong with being adaptable.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not trying to put like a moral thing on it, right?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is just like tendencies between genders.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that would make some sense.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: I will say though, that part of it is on what kind of religious background you had.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you came from a religious background where everything had to be correct or none of it was, those types of people, if they find out even one thing, they don't go to like a uh different form of theism, they don't go to like a sort of non-denominational-ish kind of a general theism, or or like uh maybe not even religious, but like spiritual, but not religious.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's really not what happens with people who have like a strict fundamentalism.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: If they start to learn things that crack that foundation of their even one thing is wrong, then all of it's wrong.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then one thing goes wrong, or they find out one thing that was wrong, and boom, the whole thing tends to crumble down.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so that sort of uh doctrinal strictness, maybe, tends to be so fragile and brittle to where if you if you put enough pressure, even just in one spot, it sort of just cracks.
• 36:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just thought about this, and I think it would be an episode that I would like to do.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I'm glad we're recording because I would probably forget, but I would love to find out like the stats and research on men getting into a cult versus women getting into a cult.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And because I wonder if it's harder for men, in my opinion, right?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: If it's harder for men to deconstruct, does that mean it's easier for women to get indoctrinated too?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or like what would be the research on that?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love, I would love to do some research on that and find out.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I was mind-blown when I spoke with some people about people who have been in a religious cult.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that once you deconstruct, you can't get sucked back in.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it is actually pretty easy for them to get sucked back into some kind of and and so when I was fine, I was like, I was mind-blown with that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so we actually had a a psychology a doctor that was on that was talking to us about that.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I'm glad we're recording this because I want to um do a little bit of research on that, and I think I want to do an episode on that.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because some people will leave some people will leave fundamentalistic religions, and then they'll end up taking another fundamentalist, very, very strict stance in something else, right?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe even just the reverse of everything they thought before, they'll just hard reverse.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't believe with their new reverse position, they'll be just as vitriolic as they were when they believed the opposite thing.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or they'll get sucked into things like crystals and stuff like this, and try to like evangelize on Facebook about how you should do this and believe in crystals and this kind of thing.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: People just as they say, and this is such a it's such a cliche, it's almost useless to say it, but I'll say it anyway.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone that they have been fooled.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Damn it, Daniel.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was a good one.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you said that you have done uh like what four or five episodes now or uh or TikTok videos, mini-series, little clips that you do where you've sit where you've come across other people that I guess they're religious and talking about what they're finding in the Bible that they believe, what they choose to be factual, um uh what they say is facts or proven.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: When the fact and proven with the video that I'm about to talk about, one of those words that she used, um, which was your most recent video that I came across.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this video was a a lovely girl.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: She looked lovely.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I liked her accent, I loved her tattoos.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but that's neither here nor there.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: But we uh do not necessarily agree with maybe some of the things that she believes, and but she was saying that she has factual proof of what was said in the Bible is true or something like that.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember exactly how she said it, and then dished it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: So take over from here, talk about that.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the the title of her video was uh seven Bible facts that will blow your mind and prove that God exists, I think is how she introduced it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And most some of them didn't even have to do with the Bible at all.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So they weren't even bad Bible facts, they weren't even Bible related, really.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: But um, most of them were.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: So she went through and what what she gave weren't facts necessarily, they were things about the Bible that she thought found interesting and thought proved something, and then I just sort of went through and and showed how that was very not true.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Even the thing about uh blood types, and I think that might have been one of the ones you had a question on.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she said that well, Noah's Noah on the Ark, Noah, there was eight people with Noah, including Noah, of course, and there are also eight major blood types that people have.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that amazing?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, that's not really amazing because first of all, that's not really how blood types work.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And secondly, two of those people were already done having kids.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like that's not really what's going on here, obviously.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then you only have two every every animal, and many animals have the same type of blood types that humans have.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that point that she was trying to make was just it's like you're clearly not doing any you're clearly not thinking this through.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's no critical thought going on, and it's it got on my nerves enough for me to make a video about it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the thing is that part is sort of understandably silly.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, if you did some critical thought, you would but there's some other things that seem to be just blatant lies, and that is the kind of thing that annoys me the most because like it was she debunked one of her own points in the video when she uh she made a point about the uh the molecule laminin, which is a type of protein that helps hold cells together and stuff like that.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very, very vital protein that our bodies produce.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: But she said that it makes a perfect cross, and she showed a diagram of like laminin-like molecules, and then overlaid Jesus on it.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sort of like, see, it looks like a cross.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then she showed an image from an electron microscope that showed how it was formed, and it wasn't it wasn't what she said.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a perfect cross, it was like one squiggly and then another squiggly that sort of crossed over the other squiggly.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you literally just debunked your own video accidentally, maybe?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: Are you just not thinking through this at all?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can look up other pictures of laminin under electron microscopes and see that some of them look like, if you squint hard enough, look like swastikas, or they look like just a random squiggly.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was saying.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is when she was like, doesn't this look like a cross?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, it looks like a swastika.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: But but those are the kind of things that I've seen, Daniel, and maybe where you've deconstructed, because I was not like in a cult-like uh religion.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you can help me understand this a bit, but like I know that there's that whole saying of we only see what we want to see.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure there are times that I have only seen what I want to see or only heard what I wanted to hear.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I will say that I don't know that mine has been like religious based or or based on something that could be detrimental to someone.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and maybe, maybe that has happened, I just haven't recognized it yet.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: But like, do you do you think because I really felt like when I was watching her, when I was watching your video and Parts that she's in.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: I really felt like if I've put if we to put her up to a law detector test and we asked these questions, or she said the same speech, I think that she would have passed it because I think her truths.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe she does honestly believe it.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's pretty difficult for me to like grant that.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because then you have to just think that she just has no critical thinking in her entire brain.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was so easy to just deconstruct almost every one of those.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: The fish one I had to do a little bit of digging to try to see if there was any actual because do you remember the fish part?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's you know, like the Christian sign of a fish or whatever.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that that does come from an ancient Christian idea of taking the Greek letters that spell the word, the Greek word for fish, which at the time I think was pronounced like equus.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: But regardless of that, they basically took each letter and spelled out with an acrostic Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior, right?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a real acrostic that was used by ancient Christians.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: However, there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it was a secret code, like she claimed.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, it was an ancient secret code that saved lives.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it didn't really like there's no evidence to suggest that.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it seems like you're just making stuff up, and or you just heard it somewhere and are just uncritically repeating it.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't, it's not a great look.
• 45:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh to the listener, I want to throw this out there that Daniel nor I would ever disrespect anyone.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is not an attack toward that this.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she seemed like a lovely lady.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: She seemed like this is what she truly believes.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's like uh one of the words that I have in myself is what she believes.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is it hurting people?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And does it hurt me if she believes these things?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is it hurting herself if she believes these things?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I pick the battle?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's one of those things, Daniel, where uh if you continue to to uh look into Christianity and you know what when it it could start out with something as as simple as there's only two apes, two elephants on on this boat, but then there's all these different breeds, and you know, fine.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care how many animals you think is on that arc and how evolution happens within or whatever.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care because that's not hurting anyone.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: But that leads to what we just talked about earlier: a preacher standing before their congregation saying, now we need to line up all the gay people and execute them.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: It leads to that from and and not every church, not every thing, but but I've heard that I mean there's been multiple preachers say it.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And especially here in the South, people wear shirts to church that says Jesus and guns.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like they carry guns to their church and and they they they can go side by side and hand in hand or whatever.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And all it takes is that one person to hear that and think they're doing God's work by coming to my house and executing me.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's I think it's important to draw the link there because it's easy to say, like this sort of type of thinking can lead to this other type of thinking.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, some people won't won't understand that right away.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's important to point out the link here is thinking with no critical thought.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: You believe things without critically thinking about them or looking at maybe what why someone might disagree.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: If you're willing to just take something that somebody says at face value and just believe it, just because they're in a religious position of authority, you are now setting yourself up to potentially believe or do something that's harmful.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, beliefs themselves can be extremely harmful.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I really don't want to hear people talk about, well, just because you believe this doesn't mean that you'll oh, that's true.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: You won't necessarily believe one harmful thing just because you believe this one untrue thing.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are willing to believe things regardless of whether or not they're true, that in my opinion sets you up to potentially believe things that could be harmful, and you wouldn't even have the level of critical thinking to even recognize that in the first place.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a problem.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's beautifully sad, because I'm not trying to say that if you think there's too like I'm not trying to say that her video, that her next video is gonna be like, let's light up the gays that you know, like that.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's not and and of course, and of course, you and the listeners, you know, know that for my own peace of mind, I want to say that.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it goes back to if you cannot critically think about Noah's art, for example.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I keep going back to that, but that's kind of what I think what her number one was.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: So so if you can't critically think about this Noah's arc thing, then how are you gonna be able to critically think about what the Bible does or does not say about someone that's different than you?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and also, listener, keep in mind that like sometimes this shit gets a little triggering to me.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a I I'm a blue dot in a red state that is religious based.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: The person that you know broke into my home, sin raped me, sin, uh murdered me, sin, like uh is identifies as Christian.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and so so how it i if we cannot if I see people, and I'm trying to make sure I'm saying this the right way, allow grace, but if I'm finding and running into people that cannot have a moment to sit back and really dig deep and and really think about what does this passage really mean?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like what like I'm taking it as face value, I'm taking it as what my preacher says, but let's critically think about this.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't do that, if the general you can't do that about a Noah's Ark, or if Joseph and Mary live to be 780 years old or whatever, if we can't critically think about those things, then how do I how can I feel secure as your neighbor that you're gonna critically think before you shoot, before you fire a gun, you know, and I know that I know that's two to a 10, right?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm a victim of these things.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, I go from a two to a 10.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Noah's art might be a two.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Killing a your gay neighbor might be the but I've I w was a victim of that.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it all becomes scary, right?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and but I also want to say that that is also my my my triggers are my responsibility.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, yeah, of course.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I think uh from what I've seen so far, you handled them pretty well.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm trying I've done the best I can.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, and I do want to say if I did word anything that sounded insensitive or insulting, that that was truly not my thought.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is also me trying to learn because I I've never been crazy uh deep in religion.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was light religious until or religious light until I went the atheist route.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never tried to be insensitive or insulting.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just maybe I don't know how to best ask my question or or describe that feeling, right?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: But luckily you and the listeners, you all are amazing and you know me.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you know my heart.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, so have you gotten any someone that you've stitched, because there's been four or five now that you've done.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Have you gotten, have they re-stitched you?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Have they or or commented or responded in any kind of way at all yet?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not that I can tell.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: I would I think if they tagged me at least, then I probably would would get a notification about that.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I I haven't yet.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a good number of comments by other people on them, and that's been interesting to see.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: You always have the people who I like there's a decent number of there's a decent amount of support, so that's nice.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also like the occasional person who will come in and usually say something like you just gotta believe Jesus loves you.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, that doesn't really answer anything in the post.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks, I guess.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: So when you when you if you were able to put yourself back into the shoes uh when you were indoctrinated before you deconstructed, and if you were scrolling through TikTok and you came across this new Daniel, this new you deconstructed you, and you were watching your videos, what would you think immediately?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would you scroll?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Would you want to comment?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like what would your thought process be if you heard someone say the things that you're saying now?
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I probably would scroll past it pretty quick and try not to give it the time of day.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: If for some reason I was like compelled to, if they said something about the Bible, then I would want to like come back at them in some way.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, I the the type of religious indoctrination I had was so like rigid that if you so rigid that it was brittle.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said before, like if you if you take something that's that brittle and you put enough pressure on, even just a small point, it can sort of all crack apart.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's the kind of belief that at least I was indoctrinated into, even if I didn't stay like that.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because eventually I figured out a couple things weren't necessarily true.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I try to just keep everything else, right?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: But uh like eventually, like enough pressure is put on like a particular point that it you just it all comes down, right?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Which is what happened to me.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: But like if I came across something like that back when I was let's say if I was to imagine one of my siblings coming across it on TikTok or whatever, I think they would just scroll away from it as fast as possible and get back to cat videos or whatever they were watching.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's also that whole thing of like if this came across your FYP.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like your phone knows you better than anyone, right?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like here's the conversation that I have to someone, here is the conversation I have by myself, it sees the crazy things I watch and like or whatever.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's so so when I see a video appear that's kind of out of my realm of videos, I'm like, okay, what did I say?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: What conversation I had, what thought was did I have when when my phone was present for this to come to me?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's giving too much thought into the algorithm, but I believe those things, right?
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you and I could talk right now, and this will be a test.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: You and I could talk right now about I think I want to buy a new refrigerator by this time tomorrow, I'm willing bet you I can screenshot a something is gonna come up about have you seen this Wi-Fi Bluetooth uh refrigerator that would fit perfectly and and I want to send it to you.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: But so like, do you think if you did come across your siblings or if your siblings came across one of your videos, do you think, or maybe your siblings isn't the best to use because they are already so tied to you, but like do you think if these videos showed up on someone else's page, it's because they were already having some kind of conversation that their phone somehow overheard, or would it just be because it was religion, period?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's a good point.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think it would be because maybe they were thinking about it already and they they were maybe looking up videos of people discussing from either side about whether or not things are worth looking at uh with a more critical lens.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: But uh it is weird the things that'll pop up.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: But you were asking me before what like what my reaction would have been.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: I had an interesting conversation a couple years ago with somebody who reached out to me who was still in the church, and he's like, Hey brother, I just wanted to let you know I'm praying with you if you want our praying for you.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to go and have lunch together sometime, I'd love to do that.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was surprised that he would do that because nobody else in the church reached out to me after.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: She talked about him in the first episode.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then he reached out to me and he and uh we talked, and uh he asked me like what like I told him I don't really believe in Christianity anymore, and he asked me why, and I told him, and it's like it went through one ear and out the other.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: Just like no, like it didn't even enter into his mind.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, am I talking to like a computer program right now?
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you an NPC?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you no no like no self-awareness at all, no ability to critically think?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because he didn't really try to like answer my points or try to like r respond in any way.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: He was just like, oh, okay, and then like anyway, like on to the next whatever.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I it is unfortunate to see when people have such a little ability to think critically and be self-aware.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's because I've always been a little bit more on the self-aware side, it baffles me a little bit when people have such little self-awareness and ability to think.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um to potentially consider that they might be wrong about something.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to imagine for me.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I really admire that about you and and so many people that you know from the Unholier podcast that you know that Jenny hosts, you know, I do the editing, so I kind of get to hear the story.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's done in sections, so I don't hear it from beginning to end, but then I'm a part of the live on Tuesday when um usually after their or yeah, after their episode or the night their episode's being released, and I get to hear more ask questions.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the what what I'm finding is so common in people that have deconstructed, and it does not necessarily have to be about a from a religious cult, you know, like just deconstructed from some kind of mentality, some kind of something, some kind of belief, is it comes into can we just be open-minded enough to think, what if I'm wrong?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: What I do find very common in uh religious cults is this religion is the only one ever.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: No other every other religion is pretty much Satanist, uh satanic, you know.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is the only religion that can be.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: I am right, you're wrong, there's a possibility that I'm wrong because my preacher said, and my preacher said it from the Bible, and the Bible said, and I think there was red ink involved, and so everything is right, you know, and and it but what I'm finding that is so calming, that it's so and it also seems to be so freeing, is when people can say, it's okay if I'm wrong, I'm open-minded to being wrong.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if I am wrong, show me because I would love to learn the right way.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I just find that to be when people get to that place, like even when I'm editing the story in Unholier and I'm I'm editing this person's journey and timeline, you can see in real time the minute they get to the fact of it, and it however they phrase that, but the phrase of saying, Now I'm okay being wrong, now you can see like their shoulders lower, there's a sigh of relief, and that is like my happy ending for what I'm editing.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we made it, you know, when I see them reach that place, because it it has to be so freeing.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's definitely the uh the feeling I got because when you're so stuck in a particular mindset, it's like a defense mechanism to not think about anything that could potentially contradict it, to not look at it, to not research, and to just stay as far away from it as possible.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: And when you finally get to the point where you're not so attached to believing it has to be a certain way, then you're you're open to learning anything.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: You don't mind learning more hist Bible history, history of the Old Testament, history of the ancient world, for example, or how the Bible canon was developed, why certain books are in the Bible, who we think wrote them, and who we think like which ones we think were probably written by someone unknown.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: So there's so much that I'm I learn more now than I ever did, because I have a Bible degree.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I went to Bible college, I have a Bible theology degree, and I still I I've learned more after Bible college than I ever did in it.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you this, and this might be shifting a little bit, but we were talking off the record of a story that you had about a dance.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, do do do you have time to still share that with us?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of shifting, but it seemed like this story was like it was like a kind of a prominent factor in in your life.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't that prominent, but it was something that sort of just stuck out to me uh as hypocrisy in the moment and just like the silly the silly beliefs that a lot of the people in the independent fundamental baptist movement have.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this was while I was in Bible college.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I on my mom's side, I have some Irish heritage, and I had uh cousins growing up who did like Irish step dancing and stuff like that, which I always thought was really cool.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because when I was young, I was like a I would come across videos of like River Dance, for example.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've ever heard of that.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so I I I was like, man, this Irish folk music is great, and the dancing and all it's just really cool, right?
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: So while I was in Bible college, River Dance, the because it's like a a particular troupe and company, kind of right.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: So they were sort of doing it one last North American tour and they were maybe going on hiatus or maybe like considering shutting down or something like that.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: I forget exactly, but they were coming through and I was I wanted to go really bad, right?
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then um my my sister she also wanted to go.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: I I had a sister who was with me in Bible college at the time.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then the girl that she had already broken up with me by this time, but well, that's a different story.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: We were sort of dating for a little while and we broke up, anyways.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: I still she was she had Irish heritage as well, a lot more than I did.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_02: So her name was at the time at least Mick Spadden, so it's like you can't get more Irish than that.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: Red hair and everything.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, was she redheaded?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: She was, and she's a great person.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: I have nothing bad to say about her.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: She's sure she's probably still in the in the IFB, but I still have nothing bad to say about her.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: She's a very lovely, very intelligent person.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: But she was also interested as well.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew that she would be.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: So by and by this time, my sister was dating the man who she's now married to, my brother-in-law.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was talking with him because we were already friends.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then I said, you know what?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: If we try to, if I try to go, then I know for sure Amber won't be able to go.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: My sister's Allison, and then the girl who I had dated for a little while, her name is Amber.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Amber won't be able to go for sure if I go, but I know Allison wants to go, I know Amber wants to go.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: Let's maybe you buy Allison's ticket, I'll buy Amber's ticket.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'll send them.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_02: They'll be able to go because if you're in like a super strict Bible college, you can't go with like boys and girls out to like a thing together that's like a non-church related event or whatever.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll get trying to.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: I know I won't exactly right.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, we'll send them, and then we'll um we won't be we won't be able to go, but we'll take the L on that and just give that to the girls, right?
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh he agreed, and and so we we purchased the tickets, and then uh shortly before I think it was like maybe a week before we were supposed to do it, I got called into the uh the college president's office, who was the father of like Amber's father.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: So he comes and he's like like yelling at me, he's like, I can't believe you would do this and send my daughter off to something where she'd be like uh like corruption I don't know, corrupted or something like that.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like what crush what are you what are you do you know this is not like hip hop dancing, this no bumping and grinding here.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is literally just Irish step dancing, and he's like, we preach against dancing, and I'm like Do you think that's an argument?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm I'm just like mind-blowing.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here with this like person who had you had been a pastor at one point, also was like a a religious leader in in the you know in the group that I was in.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like this person who I'm supposed to look up to and respect and take their words very very seriously, was just like, I can't believe you would do this.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: We preach against dancing, blah blah blah blah blah.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just and he said that probably like three or four times in the meeting.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: We preach against dancing.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like You know, David danced in the Bible, right?
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: The King David danced in the Bible, and it's not looked at to be as I guess a bad thing.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so and I've had discussions with people on that, but like it was so his mind was so rigid that he could not get past the idea we preach against dancing.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: He was going to do something that would involve dancing or ha have my daughter involved in something that involved some kind of dancing.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: Therefore it's bad.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_02: That was his entire thought process.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it was so mind-blowing to me because now uh the after the event actually happened, I found out that some of the pastoral staff in the church and some of the college staff, the Bible college staff, went to that event.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: They went to River Dance and saw it.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like this is the level of hypocrisy that we see, the level of no critical thinking whatsoever that goes into these people that into some of these thoughts.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it annoyed me, of course, at the time so much, but it's so silly looking back on.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: The whole argument was like we preach against dancing.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, but that's your whole thought process.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing more complex, more reasonable that goes into that.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't have but I am yeah, it's so interesting too.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: And because even when you were saying to him, well, this isn't hip hop dancing, it's not as if that is a horrible sin.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: But like right.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and of course, I know that you don't think that, but like at that time, you know, I would have the fact that you were trying to compare it, right?
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, yeah, you're right.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: This one, the hip-hop, that's very sexual.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can see how that could be sinful, but this is uh river dancing, which is not like the dirty hip-hop, you know?
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's no dirty dancing here.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's wow.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a question that I want to ask you, and we might put a pin in it because it could be a question that maybe Mew and Jenny discuss together.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we do it on a live one night or or on another episode.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you think that it could be a good full episode, we'll put a pin, we won't answer it, and we'll move forward because I have my own answer to it too.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: So my question would be is I have when I when I have told people that I'm atheist, a lot of their response is I would rather believe, and if I find out I'm wrong, then that's okay.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if I find out that I'm right, then hashtag winning.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna tell you what my response is on that because I would like to know, do you think that would be something that we should would be a long-term, like a long discussion, or is that a quick answer?
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, I think there's multiple ways to answer that.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that definitely could be a longer longer discussion.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I probably should go pretty soon too, because my wife was expecting me earlier.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: But um she should have known unless you and I start talking, it's gonna be we say one hour it's gonna be two.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um she oh yeah, right.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that particular idea, like if you're wrong, you stand to lose everything.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm wrong, I don't lose anything, right?
• 1:09:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: But that that it's a very like lacking in critical thought kind of idea.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's so intellectually shallow that clearly you're not thinking through the different ramifications for that and the different factors that go into belief in the first place and all this.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's called Pascal's wager, right?
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we can we should definitely have a time where we discuss that because I have multiple different thoughts on it.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would love that.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will let you go so you can go be with your wife.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for this conversation.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what was off record and on.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're more than welcome to reject this, but I will uh in TikTok, I'll send you my phone number and maybe me, you and Jenny can start a group chat because I have a couple of different ideas.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, we'll just do email, whatever you're comfortable with.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but thank you, Daniel, so much.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna share the links to your socials.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want the listeners, if they're not already following you, to check out the series that you're doing.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to see what evolves to.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you'll be back.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do lives, we're gonna do all the things.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're like I said before, you're stuck with me.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So next time tell your let your wife know.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we said an hour, but it's David, it'll be two hours.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And David apologizes in advance.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so so much.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'll keep you posted on everything as far as relate date, release dates, and all that.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, thanks for a great conversation.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Always a fun talking to you with David.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, enjoy your evening.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk to anybody.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Good night.