Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Veteran Leadership with P.J. Tucker

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Veteran Leadership with P.J. Tucker · Rosters to Rings Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters Durines. Alongside Ryan McDonough, I am
0:09
Speaker 1: fad Levine. We've got a tremendous show for you today.
0:12
Speaker 1: Fourteen year veteran PJ. Tucker will be explaining his journey
0:16
Speaker 1: of adversity to leadership in the NBA. Brian, Before we
0:20
Speaker 1: jump into the listener's question of the day, I want
0:22
Speaker 1: to get your take on three big trades that have
0:24
Speaker 1: been made in the NBA since last week. Talked to
0:27
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant trade, Drew Holliday, and Desmond Vain. But start
0:30
Speaker 1: with the Durant trade. Break that down for our listeners.
0:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, thatad not a surprise that Kevin Durant ends up
0:37
Speaker 2: heading out of Phoenix. It did not work out well
0:40
Speaker 2: in Phoenix relative to lofty expectations the Suns had when
0:43
Speaker 2: they added him alongside Devin Booker and then later when
0:46
Speaker 2: they brought in Bradley Beal. And if you look at
0:49
Speaker 2: the net for Phoenix, what they sent out and what
0:52
Speaker 2: they got back. Now, with the two trades combined, initially
0:55
Speaker 2: bringing in Kevin Durant from Brooklyn and then sending him
0:58
Speaker 2: to the Houston Rockets, a pretty paltry return. And I
1:01
Speaker 2: think it's going to take the franchise a number of
1:03
Speaker 2: years to dig out from under. That sad, but I
1:06
Speaker 2: love the deal. From the Houston Rockets perspective. One of
1:09
Speaker 2: the things the Rockets were putting out there all year,
1:12
Speaker 2: really through the fifty two win regular season they had
1:15
Speaker 2: a special year with a young team they finished second
1:18
Speaker 2: in the Western Conference, is that we love our young core.
1:21
Speaker 2: We don't want guys who don't fit our timeline. And
1:24
Speaker 2: that made a lot of sense that in the regular season, however,
1:28
Speaker 2: they got to the playoffs as the number two seed.
1:30
Speaker 2: They got kind of a tough draw because Golden State,
1:33
Speaker 2: after the Warriors added Jimmy Butler to the roster, were
1:36
Speaker 2: a championship caliber team are close to it. So that
1:39
Speaker 2: was the matchup in round one, Golden State Houston. The
1:42
Speaker 2: Warriors won that series in seven games, and I think
1:45
Speaker 2: at that point that the Rockets looked in the mirror
1:47
Speaker 2: a little bit because, as you know, in any sport NBA,
1:50
Speaker 2: major League Baseball, NFL, the playoffs are to some extent
1:53
Speaker 2: a little bit different than the regular season scoring in
1:56
Speaker 2: the NBA against good defenses who know every single tene
2:00
Speaker 2: and the coaches and players have days to prepare just
2:03
Speaker 2: for one specific opponent. A lot of times one specific
2:06
Speaker 2: player they locked in on his weaknesses, trying to take
2:09
Speaker 2: away a strength. So I think after Houston went through
2:12
Speaker 2: that process got smacked in the mouth to some extent
2:15
Speaker 2: by Golden State in the first round, they said, Okay,
2:17
Speaker 2: we took a lot of steps this year, and we
2:19
Speaker 2: do have a lot of talent, but we need to
2:21
Speaker 2: get better. We need to add a veteran star. And
2:23
Speaker 2: for the price they paid, I love the deal for Houston.
2:28
Speaker 2: They gave up Jalen Green, who's a talented young scorer,
2:31
Speaker 2: albeit a relatively inefficient one so far. And for me,
2:35
Speaker 2: this deal comes down to what you think of Jalen Green.
2:38
Speaker 2: I think teams like his potential and scoring ability. He's
2:42
Speaker 2: still just twenty three years old, but he has been
2:45
Speaker 2: relatively inefficient at times. And he also just signed a
2:48
Speaker 2: three year, one hundred million dollar contract extension. And as
2:51
Speaker 2: you know, that's one of the things that I think
2:53
Speaker 2: you and I will harp on again and again with
2:55
Speaker 2: listeners of this show. As executives in the NBA or
2:57
Speaker 2: Major League Baseball, we can't separate right for the player
3:00
Speaker 2: from the contract. Whether we can't or we can't, you don't,
3:03
Speaker 2: you shouldn't because those two things are intertwined. So I
3:06
Speaker 2: think teams around the league view Jalen Green's contract at
3:09
Speaker 2: best as neutral value, and a lot of them probably
3:12
Speaker 2: view it as negative value, meaning that if Phoenix wants
3:14
Speaker 2: to retrade him FAD, they'll probably have to add value
3:18
Speaker 2: to that. So that's what I'm looking for. And this
3:20
Speaker 2: deal was announced, but it's not going to be executed
3:24
Speaker 2: until after the NBA's moratorium ends, which I believe is
3:27
Speaker 2: on July six. And keep in mind the NBA calendar
3:29
Speaker 2: year is July one until June thirtieth, so the clock
3:33
Speaker 2: resets on July one. This deal will be executed then, THAD.
3:36
Speaker 2: So one of the things to keep an eye on
3:38
Speaker 2: over the next couple of weeks is if this deal expands.
3:41
Speaker 2: It works right now as it is between Houston and Phoenix,
3:43
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't it all be surprised. In fact, I
3:46
Speaker 2: imagine that Phoenix is out trying to actively bring at
3:48
Speaker 2: least a third and maybe a fourth team into this
3:51
Speaker 2: see if they can send Jalen Green somewhere else, because
3:53
Speaker 2: on the Sun's roster with Bradley Beal and with Devin Booker.
3:57
Speaker 2: It's very unbalanced from a positional perspective. It's also not
4:01
Speaker 2: very balanced from a financial perspective. They have way too
4:03
Speaker 2: much money tied up in the shooting guard and those
4:06
Speaker 2: three guys in particular, keeping in mind they also have
4:08
Speaker 2: Grayson Allen and others who also play shooting guard that
4:11
Speaker 2: I just don't like the blend. I don't think the
4:12
Speaker 2: pieces fit very well together.
4:15
Speaker 1: You know, Ryan, one other nuance in this trade that
4:17
Speaker 1: I just wanted to touch on, and you'll know more
4:19
Speaker 1: about the basketball into this. I'm just going to talk
4:21
Speaker 1: about the baseball end, which is my guess is they
4:24
Speaker 1: probably asked for Javari Smith Junior and or Reed Shepherd
4:27
Speaker 1: in this deal and they were denied. And sometimes I
4:29
Speaker 1: will say, when we were making bigger trades in Major
4:32
Speaker 1: League Baseball, you would intentionally ask for players that you
4:35
Speaker 1: didn't think you would get back, because the strategy then
4:38
Speaker 1: was to inspire the other team to have to replace
4:41
Speaker 1: the value of that really high value player. And so
4:44
Speaker 1: now as in their eye levels is up, they now
4:47
Speaker 1: have to feel this obligation that they have to replace
4:49
Speaker 1: the value of a Javari Smith Junior. I know, you
4:52
Speaker 1: just were a little bit critical of the return that
4:55
Speaker 1: of Phoenix Scott, But did you guys ever employ that strategy?
4:58
Speaker 1: I guess the two things that come to mind here
5:01
Speaker 1: is that strategy juxtaposed against when you're trading a guy
5:04
Speaker 1: like Kevin Durant and you're calling other teams. It's really
5:07
Speaker 1: tough to hear will these three, four or five players
5:09
Speaker 1: are off limits because you look at it and say,
5:13
Speaker 1: this guy's a first ballot Hall of Famer, this guy
5:15
Speaker 1: is a guy you're seeking who's going to transform your team,
5:18
Speaker 1: change the landscape with the whole Western Conference. The first
5:21
Speaker 1: thing you hear is here's who you can't have. It
5:24
Speaker 1: kind of stings, but you can kind of use that
5:26
Speaker 1: to your own advantage by then saying, Okay, well, if
5:28
Speaker 1: we're not going to get access to Javari Smith, then
5:30
Speaker 1: we're going to need two three assets to replace his
5:33
Speaker 1: value in the deal. I wonder how much that happened
5:36
Speaker 1: in this negotiation.
5:37
Speaker 2: I think it absolutely happened, sad and I'm trying not
5:40
Speaker 2: to be too critical of Phoenix because of the position
5:43
Speaker 2: they're in now. Frankly, they put themselves in this position
5:45
Speaker 2: with the moves over the last couple of years. But
5:47
Speaker 2: those moves were not made by Brian Gregory, who's the
5:49
Speaker 2: new general manager. He's only been on the job in
5:51
Speaker 2: Phoenix for a few weeks and the team badly underperformed
5:55
Speaker 2: the last couple of years. They're currently looking for their
5:58
Speaker 2: fourth head coach in about two calendar years, which is remarkable.
6:02
Speaker 2: But in order, Monty Williams, Frank Vogel, and then Mike
6:04
Speaker 2: Woodenholzer were fired and they just hired Jordan Not as
6:08
Speaker 2: their fourth head coach. So I think, you know, as
6:12
Speaker 2: they look at Phoenix's situation, they did not want to
6:14
Speaker 2: trade Devin Booker. They could not trade Bradley Beal. He's
6:18
Speaker 2: one of the few players in the league within no
6:20
Speaker 2: trade clause, and he's seemingly his market is limited if
6:25
Speaker 2: exists in at all outside of Phoenix, and he for
6:27
Speaker 2: whatever reason that he doesn't want to explore trade possibilities
6:30
Speaker 2: he likes, I guess, living in Phoenix. So so that
6:32
Speaker 2: brings us back to Durant, and I think the Suns
6:34
Speaker 2: they had to trade Durant. You know that he was
6:37
Speaker 2: on a one year deal. That plays into this as well,
6:41
Speaker 2: and the leverage or lack thereof from Phoenix's perspective that
6:44
Speaker 2: because Kevin Durant is going to be thirty seven years
6:46
Speaker 2: old before next season starts. He's on a fifty four
6:49
Speaker 2: million dollar expiring contract he's eligible to sign now a
6:53
Speaker 2: two year extension about one hundred and twenty two million
6:55
Speaker 2: dollars sixty one million a year. We'll see if he
6:58
Speaker 2: gets all that. There's been some rumblings that he may
7:00
Speaker 2: agree to take less than the MAX from the Houston Rockets.
7:03
Speaker 2: But I give Houston's front office a lot of credit
7:05
Speaker 2: that I think what they did is just.
7:08
Speaker 1: Stood pat, stood firm on their offer.
7:10
Speaker 2: As you know, sometimes in the NBA and Major League Baseball,
7:12
Speaker 2: you feel like you have to make a deal or
7:13
Speaker 2: you're up against a deadline. There's no deadline here Houston
7:17
Speaker 2: that they were in their mind good with or without
7:20
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant. So I give him a lot of credit
7:22
Speaker 2: for just standing pat on their offer and analyzing the competition,
7:25
Speaker 2: it looked like Minnesota had a pretty good package on
7:28
Speaker 2: the table, but I think they were a little hesitant
7:31
Speaker 2: to push more in when Kevin Durant put out there
7:33
Speaker 2: that he didn't necessarily want to be in Minnesota, he
7:35
Speaker 2: was unlikely to resign with the Timberwolves and as you know,
7:37
Speaker 2: if that anytime you're getting a player on a one
7:39
Speaker 2: year expiring deal, there is a lot of risk if
7:41
Speaker 2: that player does not want to resign. You can shoot
7:44
Speaker 2: yourself in the foot if you give up too much value.
7:46
Speaker 2: So yeah, but that was a theme, and I think
7:48
Speaker 2: some Sans fans are upset, but I understand it that.
7:51
Speaker 2: I think Houston, Miami, San Antonio just either stood pat
7:56
Speaker 2: with their offers or in some cases didn't really make
7:58
Speaker 2: an offer at all. From Phoenix perspective, the leverage was
8:02
Speaker 2: dwindling that with the league realizing they probably had to
8:04
Speaker 2: trade Kevin Durant, and importantly this week, they wanted to
8:08
Speaker 2: pick in this draft, which they got the number ten
8:11
Speaker 2: pick in the draft, which ironically that was their own
8:13
Speaker 2: pick that was part of the package that went out
8:15
Speaker 2: to get Kevin Durant from Brooklyn initially, so at least
8:19
Speaker 2: they got one first round pick back. Like I said,
8:21
Speaker 2: net Net, it's a tough haul for the Phoenix Suns,
8:24
Speaker 2: but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and you
8:27
Speaker 2: can't go backwards, right, You can't rewind, you can only
8:29
Speaker 2: look forward. And I think the Suns felt like they
8:31
Speaker 2: did the best deal they could given their lack of leverage.
8:35
Speaker 1: You know, it seems to me just from the outside
8:37
Speaker 1: looking in, like the Suns are an untenable position. Like
8:41
Speaker 1: when you're building a championship organization, you're either trying to
8:44
Speaker 1: win today or you're trying to build for tomorrow, And
8:46
Speaker 1: it feels to me like they're getting caught in between.
8:49
Speaker 1: With Bradley Beal as an immovable object, they can't really
8:52
Speaker 1: tear down this roster fully, so they're trying to try
8:55
Speaker 1: to do a little bit of both, which is sell
8:57
Speaker 1: and buy at the same time. Sometimes you can be
9:00
Speaker 1: successful doing that. Usually I find you fall a little
9:03
Speaker 1: bit short in both goals of trying to put the
9:05
Speaker 1: best team on the court today as well as are
9:08
Speaker 1: you really trying to build for the best in the future.
9:10
Speaker 1: It feels like there's a risk here that they may
9:12
Speaker 1: be falling short on both based upon the limitations they have,
9:16
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, some of those limitations that have been
9:18
Speaker 1: self inflicted. But here they are now trying to compete
9:21
Speaker 1: in one of the most difficult conferences that the NBA
9:24
Speaker 1: has seen in the last decade, and they're really kind
9:27
Speaker 1: of taking half measures. We're going to move on to
9:30
Speaker 1: a great conversation with p J. Tucker before we do that,
9:34
Speaker 1: anything that really jumps out to you, Ryan, where the
9:36
Speaker 1: Desmond Baine and Drew Holliday. Were these just good basketball
9:39
Speaker 1: trades or is there something significant? Is there a signal
9:41
Speaker 1: being sent in the NBA with either of these two
9:43
Speaker 1: trades that you want to touch on.
9:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's start with the Desmond Bain trade. He
9:48
Speaker 2: got sent from Memphis to Orlando. I think Orlando sees
9:52
Speaker 2: a wide open Eastern Conference Thatad, and that's one of
9:55
Speaker 2: the unfortunate realities of these significant injuries. Two stars Jason
10:00
Speaker 2: Tatum go down against the Knicks in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
10:04
Speaker 2: Just a few days ago. Tragically, we saw Tyris Haliburton
10:07
Speaker 2: go down after a great start in Game seven of
10:10
Speaker 2: the NBA Finals. So the Bain trade was before the
10:13
Speaker 2: Haliburton injury, but after the Tatum injury. So I think
10:16
Speaker 2: with the Tatum injury in particular, Thad with the Celtics
10:21
Speaker 2: now making another trade just recently to send Drew Holiday
10:24
Speaker 2: to the Portland Trailblazers, and then with the Knicks going
10:28
Speaker 2: to the Conference finals but also making a coaching change
10:31
Speaker 2: and Tom Thibodeaux is out We'll see who the Knicks
10:33
Speaker 2: bring in as their next head coach. I think Orlando
10:36
Speaker 2: with a really talented young core led by Paulo Vancarro
10:39
Speaker 2: Franz Wagner. Jalen Suggs said, Look, we're going to try
10:44
Speaker 2: to do basically what Indiana just did where they're not
10:46
Speaker 2: the favorites, but give yourself a chance maybe around that
10:50
Speaker 2: middle seeding thad in the playoffs. If Orlando can be
10:53
Speaker 2: the third to sixth seed in the Eastern Conference, is
10:56
Speaker 2: that good enough? Can they make a run to the
10:58
Speaker 2: conference finals NBA Finals the Pacers just did, given how
11:01
Speaker 2: wide open the East looks next year, so I think
11:04
Speaker 2: that was the mindset there. Orlando gave up a lot,
11:06
Speaker 2: and that's one of the things that I think it's
11:08
Speaker 2: hard for some fans to understand. Wait a minute, why
11:10
Speaker 2: does Kevin Durant only bring back one first round pick
11:13
Speaker 2: and Desmond Bain brings back four first round picks and
11:16
Speaker 2: a pick swap. Well, the age and the contract, that
11:19
Speaker 2: and the motivation of Orlando. Orlando was by far the
11:23
Speaker 2: worst shooting team in the league. They're an excellent defensive team,
11:26
Speaker 2: so they have the biggest variance between how good they
11:28
Speaker 2: are defensively and how bad they were offensively. Bain should
11:32
Speaker 2: keep their defense at a high level, but also help
11:34
Speaker 2: them significantly offensively with the shooting and then quickly touching
11:38
Speaker 2: on Boston, I think this is the first of several moves.
11:41
Speaker 2: Sad Drewe Holliday is a great player. I mean, we're
11:44
Speaker 2: going to talk to PJ. Tucker here in a minute.
11:46
Speaker 2: They won a championship together in twenty twenty one with
11:49
Speaker 2: the Milwaukee Bucks. Holiday is one of the few players
11:51
Speaker 2: to win multiple championships in the twenty twenties. He also
11:54
Speaker 2: won another one with the Boston Celtics last year. That
11:57
Speaker 2: special Celtics team. But Boston is not only a luxury
12:00
Speaker 2: packs team, fad. They're a repeater tax team as well.
12:04
Speaker 2: And the financial penalties and the basketball penalties now are
12:08
Speaker 2: so punitive if you're in that stratosphere salary wise, that
12:12
Speaker 2: Boston has to make moves, and I think this is
12:14
Speaker 2: just the first one of probably several to reduce their
12:17
Speaker 2: payroll in a weird way that I think doing this
12:20
Speaker 2: may have gotten a little bit easier with Jason Tatum's injury.
12:23
Speaker 2: I hate to say it that way, but you know,
12:25
Speaker 2: without Jason Tatum, the Celtics almost certainly are not a
12:28
Speaker 2: championship contender next year, so to get out of the
12:31
Speaker 2: repeater tax, you need to be under the luxury tax
12:34
Speaker 2: line for two years. I think the Celtics view it
12:37
Speaker 2: now said, why would we keep paying, you know, catastrophic
12:41
Speaker 2: salaries and luxury tax payments and having limited basketball flexibility
12:45
Speaker 2: if we're not going to be a championship pretender. So
12:47
Speaker 2: I'll keep keep an eye on two guys that Christaph
12:50
Speaker 2: Porzingis and Sam Hauser in particular. I wouldn't it all
12:54
Speaker 2: be surprised if one or both of those guys is
12:56
Speaker 2: not on the Celtics roster come opening night.
13:00
Speaker 1: In credible Ryan hearing you talk about this and how
13:02
Speaker 1: really three injuries have changed the whole complexion of the
13:04
Speaker 1: competition in the East, Darius Garland being the third guy
13:08
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about, but Jason Tatum, Garland and now Halliburton.
13:11
Speaker 1: You're seeing teams like Strike. I'll be curious to see
13:13
Speaker 1: if we see more teams who were projected to kind
13:16
Speaker 1: of be in that six to eight seed range, like
13:19
Speaker 1: start taking strides towards capitalizing on this moment of competition
13:24
Speaker 1: in the Eastern Conference. Well, we're going to wrap this
13:27
Speaker 1: section here. We're about to have a wonderful conversation with
13:30
Speaker 1: PJ Tucker. We can't wait to have him on. Stay
13:33
Speaker 1: tuned with us through the break, and then in the
13:35
Speaker 1: third segment we'll get to the listeners questions here on
13:37
Speaker 1: Rosters to Rings.
13:50
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings.
13:52
Speaker 1: Everyone.
13:52
Speaker 2: I am Ryan McDonough, joined as always by Thad Levine
13:56
Speaker 2: in Fad. We have a special guest today and I
13:58
Speaker 2: know one of the things we don't like to do
14:00
Speaker 2: when we're on the team side is pick favorites, at
14:03
Speaker 2: least not publicly, but this guy is one of my
14:05
Speaker 2: all time favorite players in my sixteen year NBA career
14:08
Speaker 2: with the Celtics and Suns. That as you know, certain
14:11
Speaker 2: players stand out not just for their ability, but for
14:14
Speaker 2: their toughness, for their grit, what they bring to a
14:18
Speaker 2: locker room. And I think the reason that this guy's
14:20
Speaker 2: approaching his now third decade in professional basketball with a
14:24
Speaker 2: number of different teams, a lot of successful teams, is
14:26
Speaker 2: because of all that that is PJ Tucker, PJ, Welcome
14:30
Speaker 2: to Rosters to Rings. And where I want to start
14:32
Speaker 2: with you is at the beginning, grew up in Raleigh.
14:36
Speaker 2: We're a fairly highly touted high school player, but not
14:40
Speaker 2: a guy who came into the NBA the easy way.
14:43
Speaker 2: You're a second round pick by the Toronto Raptors and
14:45
Speaker 2: then ended up having to go overseas. So why don't
14:47
Speaker 2: you take us back to the beginning? Tuck, as a
14:49
Speaker 2: high schooler growing up in North Carolina, what led you
14:52
Speaker 2: to the University of Texas.
14:55
Speaker 3: I guess I'm to start like they like being probably
15:01
Speaker 3: now they you know, they have like four five star
15:04
Speaker 3: I think earlier on being like a four ish, having
15:07
Speaker 3: to grind my way even up through high school, right
15:10
Speaker 3: like not being you know, from like in ninth grade,
15:13
Speaker 3: not really being looked at as much a lot of
15:17
Speaker 3: local schools, the UNC schools, but not a bunch of
15:21
Speaker 3: schools until I started hitting the a you've seen uh
15:25
Speaker 3: and and really grinding through that and rising over getting better.
15:29
Speaker 4: Year at the year to my senior year. Uh.
15:33
Speaker 3: And I picked Texas because of Rick Barnes one hundred
15:36
Speaker 3: percent Frank hate and Rick Barnes. Uh. There was no
15:40
Speaker 3: way I was ever going anywhere but Carolina. That was
15:43
Speaker 3: my dream more than even making the NBA. So well,
15:48
Speaker 3: Rick came in and and really just blew my first
15:50
Speaker 3: He blew my mom away, and that if anybody knows,
15:53
Speaker 3: that's like the first step and it give me.
15:55
Speaker 4: Uh he got my mom so uh.
15:58
Speaker 3: But it was the best decision I ever made, probably
16:00
Speaker 3: throughout my entire life, because Rick set me up to
16:04
Speaker 3: be able to be where I'm at right now.
16:07
Speaker 4: For the longevity, for the long row.
16:09
Speaker 3: I think Rick was essential and my mindset, you know,
16:15
Speaker 3: being endurance wise, toughness wise, I mean across the board.
16:22
Speaker 3: I think Rick almost every tool that I'm able to
16:24
Speaker 3: use now where people say on my strengths, I think
16:27
Speaker 3: I'll get them off from Rick Barnes.
16:30
Speaker 1: That's amazing, PJ. Can you take us into draft nights?
16:33
Speaker 1: Where were you, who were you with, what were your
16:36
Speaker 1: expectations going into that night, and how did you feel
16:39
Speaker 1: when your name was called by the Toronto Raptors.
16:41
Speaker 3: That's so funny. Me and my best friend was my sister.
16:45
Speaker 3: Now Mark, we were just talking about this two nights ago.
16:49
Speaker 3: We were watching the game and we're watching Game seven
16:52
Speaker 3: here in my house, and they showed the draft thing
16:56
Speaker 3: and you know, it came up the draft on such
16:58
Speaker 3: and such date, you know, on the b and I
17:01
Speaker 3: looked and I was like, Mark, where I got two
17:03
Speaker 3: days on there?
17:04
Speaker 4: He's like, the draft is two days now. I was
17:06
Speaker 4: like yo. He was like, oh my god, you would
17:08
Speaker 4: have been so if you had to wait till the
17:12
Speaker 4: next day for your name, for your call. And I
17:15
Speaker 4: was like yo.
17:15
Speaker 3: I could not imagine because I was so mad that
17:19
Speaker 3: I didn't go first round, because I had so many
17:22
Speaker 3: good workouts, went back to a couple of places twice.
17:27
Speaker 4: It's funny we.
17:29
Speaker 3: Talked about the eras like I've been a round for
17:31
Speaker 3: a long time now, and when I came out, I
17:35
Speaker 3: had that that that label as a tweeter, and I
17:38
Speaker 3: don't don't we use that term anymore, Like yeah, I
17:40
Speaker 3: haven't even heard.
17:41
Speaker 4: That term in so long. But they said I just
17:45
Speaker 4: didn't have a position.
17:47
Speaker 3: So I think that was my biggest fault coming into
17:50
Speaker 3: the draft, and now it's.
17:53
Speaker 4: My biggest you know, it's the It's the biggest thing.
17:56
Speaker 3: That I could have going on my side is being
17:58
Speaker 3: able to play multiple which is crazy now.
18:02
Speaker 4: But draft night was bad. It was bad to see
18:06
Speaker 4: so many names you called teams.
18:10
Speaker 3: I thought for sure, for sure I would go to
18:13
Speaker 3: h It was a tough night for me, so I've
18:17
Speaker 3: bet it ended better than it started.
18:20
Speaker 1: PJ.
18:20
Speaker 2: They don't use the term tweeter anymore in the NBA.
18:23
Speaker 2: Now you're versatile. It went from a negative pity they
18:26
Speaker 2: got it a tweeter. Now you're versatile, you can play
18:28
Speaker 2: multiple positions instead of getting pigeonholed into one. But I
18:31
Speaker 2: think one of the reasons I have so much respect
18:34
Speaker 2: for you, other than the great times we had together
18:36
Speaker 2: with the Phoenix Suns, is your path and I think
18:40
Speaker 2: you have a really interesting story to tell, especially as
18:42
Speaker 2: we record the show the week of the NBA Draft
18:45
Speaker 2: to young players, because when we've talked about this before,
18:47
Speaker 2: by your own admission, you were a little immature going
18:50
Speaker 2: to Toronto. You didn't necessarily get what it took to
18:54
Speaker 2: not only make the NBA but stick in the NBA,
18:56
Speaker 2: and then you had to go overseas for five years
18:58
Speaker 2: and claw your way back. If you could take our
19:00
Speaker 2: listeners inside that journey and what you learned after initially
19:04
Speaker 2: washing out of the NBA, having to go to Europe
19:07
Speaker 2: and earn your way back.
19:09
Speaker 4: I always want to tell it.
19:11
Speaker 3: I always say I'd never imagine being back my God
19:15
Speaker 3: to sell myself and my mind, because to be successful
19:19
Speaker 3: over there.
19:20
Speaker 4: You have to be focused on there, right.
19:22
Speaker 3: You can't be over there thinking that you're gonna come back, like,
19:25
Speaker 3: it just doesn't work that way. And I don't think
19:27
Speaker 3: you're gonna give what you gotta give to be successful
19:30
Speaker 3: over there if you're doing that. So going over there
19:33
Speaker 3: every year, it was fully maxing out right, getting better,
19:36
Speaker 3: trying to win championships and do the individual thing and
19:41
Speaker 3: try to make more money right and over there, if
19:43
Speaker 3: you win, you get paid, and so every year just
19:45
Speaker 3: trying to win as much as possible, but even leaving
19:49
Speaker 3: leave it before even before you know, I'll go back,
19:51
Speaker 3: even before going over there, because my rookie year, I
19:55
Speaker 3: think is really essential in the whole story of only
19:58
Speaker 3: playing the seventeen game. Being very very immature when it
20:04
Speaker 3: comes to being a professional, when it comes to understanding
20:08
Speaker 3: what it's all about. When you have so much success
20:10
Speaker 3: in college as I did, Uh, and you're thinking you're
20:13
Speaker 3: going to an NBA and that you'll get opportunities, uh where,
20:17
Speaker 3: I'll tell it you. I couldn't even get in a
20:19
Speaker 3: repping practice right like. It was like it was literally
20:22
Speaker 3: I had so many vets on that team wings that
20:26
Speaker 3: that had been in the league for years, so in practice,
20:28
Speaker 3: guys were fighting for reps and I couldn't even get
20:31
Speaker 3: a rep in practice a lot of times.
20:32
Speaker 4: So that frustrated me.
20:35
Speaker 3: It wasn't anybody there to kind of like coach me
20:37
Speaker 3: through it and you know, rub my back and be
20:39
Speaker 3: like it's okay, you know, this is how it goes.
20:41
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.
20:42
Speaker 3: It just wasn't like that, you know, And it was
20:44
Speaker 3: something I had to fight through uh throughout that season.
20:47
Speaker 3: So once I got released from the Raptors before the playoffs,
20:51
Speaker 3: it hurt. It was it really hurt, and I I
20:55
Speaker 3: just want an opportunity to play, right, And that was
20:58
Speaker 3: I told Andre, and Andre tells everybody. When I came
21:00
Speaker 3: out of that season, I was like, I don't care
21:03
Speaker 3: where I go. I just want to go some everyway
21:05
Speaker 3: I get a chance to play. I was like, I
21:06
Speaker 3: don't care where it is in the world. And he
21:09
Speaker 3: didn't believe me. He thought I would, like still want
21:11
Speaker 3: to kind of fight it here. And as soon as
21:13
Speaker 3: we got the first opportunity, I signed the contract. I
21:15
Speaker 3: still don't think he believed I was going to do it,
21:18
Speaker 3: and I did. Like I said, I think that was
21:20
Speaker 3: one of another big decision I made that really helped
21:24
Speaker 3: me be here right now.
21:25
Speaker 1: PJ. You just touched on something that I think that's
21:27
Speaker 1: very important for our listeners to hear, which is, you know,
21:30
Speaker 1: clubs want to set everybody up for success, but they
21:33
Speaker 1: don't always do that. You mentioned you were a tween er,
21:36
Speaker 1: you were somewhere between the three and a four. You
21:38
Speaker 1: also mentioned that maybe the mentors weren't around you, Like,
21:41
Speaker 1: how did that shape you? You got You got drafted
21:43
Speaker 1: by a team you don't get to pick who you
21:44
Speaker 1: go to. Maybe it wasn't the best environment for you
21:47
Speaker 1: to succeed either.
21:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't, and it wasn't. I don't fault the Rappers.
21:53
Speaker 3: They had great people there and I enjoyed some of
21:57
Speaker 3: my time there. They took me because the best player
22:00
Speaker 3: on the board, which a lot of people do with
22:01
Speaker 3: that second round pick.
22:03
Speaker 4: I never worked out for him. I never did anything
22:04
Speaker 4: for him.
22:05
Speaker 3: I was actually hoping to fall a couple of picks
22:08
Speaker 3: after to a team that I thought now would have
22:10
Speaker 3: been better at. But it's one of those things as
22:13
Speaker 3: a young guy that you don't fully understand, and I
22:15
Speaker 3: think some teams don't fully understand either. When you kind
22:18
Speaker 3: of get overviewed. I went with the number one pick
22:20
Speaker 3: on everybody. Honey went number one. So from day one
22:23
Speaker 3: and me going through the press conference and everything, it
22:26
Speaker 3: was so much focused on him as it should have
22:28
Speaker 3: been the number one pick. But for me this you know,
22:32
Speaker 3: all American college, you know, blah blah blah. Ex athletes
22:34
Speaker 3: and college it doesn't matter once you get to professional level.
22:38
Speaker 3: It's just not one of those things when you get
22:39
Speaker 3: all the TLC that you may need to be able to,
22:43
Speaker 3: you know, fight through the adversities that you're gonna go through.
22:46
Speaker 3: You know, you go through the NBA and the Ricky
22:47
Speaker 3: stuff to transition stuff, but it nothing prepares you for
22:51
Speaker 3: when you actually get there and you start working and
22:54
Speaker 3: being around the team and seeing how things go. So
22:58
Speaker 3: that's something that even as event now where I am
23:01
Speaker 3: fully aware and help guys is unbelievable. Ryan, you, I mean,
23:05
Speaker 3: you know, obviously in the league, it's crazy now because
23:08
Speaker 3: we got two way guys, We got so many different
23:10
Speaker 3: kinds of guys like that we didn't have before. And
23:13
Speaker 3: now I'm so conscious of all those guys on the
23:16
Speaker 3: team right like we got like this year we had
23:18
Speaker 3: five or six guys like one of those guys like
23:20
Speaker 3: young enough to be my son.
23:22
Speaker 4: Like literally he's park is like.
23:24
Speaker 3: Eighteen, Like I'm like, bro, you literally the same age
23:28
Speaker 3: as my Daughter's crazy. But he didn't play and he's
23:31
Speaker 3: from France and blah blah blah. But I will always
23:34
Speaker 3: because he didn't talk a lot. But I'm always every morning,
23:37
Speaker 3: I'm talking to him in the morning, make sure he's
23:39
Speaker 3: good and practice, making sure he's sharp standing, you know,
23:42
Speaker 3: just always keeping that.
23:44
Speaker 4: Going with him. They let him know that we're here,
23:46
Speaker 4: you're here, we see you.
23:48
Speaker 3: You know, you're part of the team, and you always
23:50
Speaker 3: want to keep young guys involved like that, And that's
23:52
Speaker 3: it's crazy the things that happen to me I learned
23:54
Speaker 3: from and be able to use them at the end
23:56
Speaker 3: of my career.
23:57
Speaker 1: PG.
23:58
Speaker 2: I'm going to say something now that may sound crazy
24:00
Speaker 2: to our listeners, but I don't think it's going to
24:01
Speaker 2: sound crazy to you. Is that one of the challenges
24:04
Speaker 2: running the NBA team these days is a lot of
24:07
Speaker 2: times you get young players and nobody along their path
24:10
Speaker 2: really tells them the truth about what they need to
24:13
Speaker 2: work on, you know, how much better they need to get.
24:15
Speaker 2: And the reason for that that is because you know,
24:18
Speaker 2: these kids are constantly recruited. High schools want them, au
24:21
Speaker 2: programs want them, colleges want them, and a lot of
24:24
Speaker 2: times the college coaches to be blunt or kicks kissing
24:26
Speaker 2: their ass to get them to school and then keep
24:28
Speaker 2: them in school. So, PJ, how you know, you're one
24:31
Speaker 2: of the best I've ever seen at being a veteran
24:33
Speaker 2: leadership and the guys really respect you. And I think
24:35
Speaker 2: part of the reason the guys in the locker room
24:37
Speaker 2: respect you is because you're so honest. How do you
24:40
Speaker 2: kind of balance that?
24:40
Speaker 4: How did you.
24:41
Speaker 2: Develop those leadership characteristics, especially when you're talking to young players?
24:45
Speaker 4: That is? That is like a main point in Ryan.
24:48
Speaker 4: It's so funny.
24:50
Speaker 3: I literally I'm consciously doing it every single day.
24:54
Speaker 4: Right. You want to build guys up.
24:56
Speaker 3: You want to be honest with them enough where they
24:58
Speaker 3: know you're real, they know where you're coming from Israel, and.
25:04
Speaker 4: You don't want to you know, it's not even a
25:07
Speaker 4: tear down. I'm not gonna use that word.
25:08
Speaker 3: It's it's it's motivation, right like you, you want to play,
25:12
Speaker 3: and every guy wants to play.
25:13
Speaker 4: Young guys.
25:14
Speaker 3: You know, you can see it in the face and
25:15
Speaker 3: the body language you want to play I get it,
25:19
Speaker 3: but where you want to play it? Like, where do
25:21
Speaker 3: you feel like where you bring what do you bring
25:23
Speaker 3: the team? Where you feel like coach will put you
25:25
Speaker 3: in the game. Right, It's what it comes down to.
25:29
Speaker 3: And nowaday's new generations people. Ah, they're different. You know,
25:34
Speaker 3: they're so super confident and everything they do they think
25:36
Speaker 3: they can do it all. But uh, the school I
25:40
Speaker 3: grew up in, where you know you look at yourself first,
25:43
Speaker 3: it's always that self looking at that mirror, looking at
25:46
Speaker 3: that mirror before I go out here and I try
25:49
Speaker 3: to do my job and whatever I'm doing on this team,
25:51
Speaker 3: I got to know that I'm fully there and fully
25:53
Speaker 3: prepare for my job every single day, and I prepare
25:55
Speaker 3: myself to be able to do that job every day. Uh.
25:58
Speaker 3: And that's the thing I do most with the young guys.
26:00
Speaker 3: Make sure you're ready every single day because you never
26:03
Speaker 3: know when your numbers gonna get called. So just being
26:06
Speaker 3: prepared mentally, I think that's the biggest part to mentally
26:10
Speaker 3: be able to go out there and do your job.
26:12
Speaker 3: Now be focused on things that don't matter, because now
26:15
Speaker 3: everybody's in their ears.
26:16
Speaker 4: No young guy's got a.
26:18
Speaker 3: Million people around them and just trying to stay focused
26:20
Speaker 3: through all the you know, through all the noise.
26:23
Speaker 1: PJ. You talked about how Rick Barnes really shaped you.
26:27
Speaker 1: So did the adversity you faced with the raptors you
26:30
Speaker 1: go abroad, Like how much of those leadership skills did
26:33
Speaker 1: you develop abroad? And how did you develop them there?
26:35
Speaker 1: And all these connection points, these relationships you talk about
26:39
Speaker 1: forging with players. Did some of that start while you
26:41
Speaker 1: were playing over in Israel, Germany in Italy.
26:46
Speaker 3: I think that me going over there was a big
26:50
Speaker 3: part of reason why it could be such a role
26:54
Speaker 3: player that I've been through, you know, these last thirteen
26:58
Speaker 3: fourteen years. Was being in Europe and being the main guy,
27:02
Speaker 3: being able to know what I needed from guys from
27:05
Speaker 3: playing over there, and what I got out of my guys,
27:08
Speaker 3: and how you know, the energy I put board into
27:12
Speaker 3: trying to help them help me, help me be able
27:15
Speaker 3: to be a better role player in the NBA. And
27:17
Speaker 3: it may sound a little bear, but they taught me leadership.
27:22
Speaker 3: And it's crazy. I think in my mind that I'm
27:25
Speaker 3: being a leader. But I had a guy named Paigeach
27:28
Speaker 3: He's older than me, but he respected me. But he
27:32
Speaker 3: knew everything he needed to do to be able to
27:35
Speaker 3: make me better, and in the moment I didn't fully
27:37
Speaker 3: get it until way later. But he was amazing, amazing,
27:42
Speaker 3: amazing at helping me build my leadership skills and and
27:46
Speaker 3: kind of pushing me in the right direction. And he
27:48
Speaker 3: was he was the early forties we played together, but
27:52
Speaker 3: he could still play strong and it was tough, but
27:54
Speaker 3: he was really smart and he helped me out a ton.
27:57
Speaker 3: So I really credit in Europe to a lot of
28:01
Speaker 3: the leadership things I've now for sure come from that. Yeah.
28:07
Speaker 2: So, PJA, take us back to twenty twelve. Now you
28:09
Speaker 2: have the one year in the NBA with Toronto. As
28:11
Speaker 2: you mentioned, it didn't go great. You end up going
28:13
Speaker 2: into Europe and sad he was a star in Europe.
28:16
Speaker 2: All the negative labels that used against a young PJ.
28:18
Speaker 2: Tucker in the NBA undersize. You know, the physic europe
28:22
Speaker 2: ping game is more physical than the NBA game, and
28:24
Speaker 2: at his size, he was a dominant player over there.
28:27
Speaker 2: So when you got the call, imagine it was probably
28:29
Speaker 2: from Lance Blanks, who was my predecessor as GM of
28:32
Speaker 2: the Phoenix Suns. You guys had the Texas connection PG.
28:36
Speaker 2: When Lance in the organization in Phoenix reached out to
28:39
Speaker 2: you in twenty twelve, what was your mindset, because imagine,
28:41
Speaker 2: you know, part of you wanted to keep being a
28:43
Speaker 2: star and dominating in Europe, but you decided to come
28:45
Speaker 2: back and earn your way back into the NBA, I think,
28:47
Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, even on a partially guaranteed contract,
28:50
Speaker 2: which is probably significantly less than your market in Europe.
28:54
Speaker 3: For sure, I love a lot of money on the
28:56
Speaker 3: table to come back, and it wasn't easy. It took
28:59
Speaker 3: a lot of people talking, a lot of conversations because
29:02
Speaker 3: I just signed my biggest deal yet Europe, a few
29:05
Speaker 3: million dollars, So it was it was a big deal
29:07
Speaker 3: for me coming back and knowing I was gonna be
29:10
Speaker 3: fifteenth man on the bench, like I knew, you know,
29:13
Speaker 3: I knew that feeling of not being in and being
29:15
Speaker 3: not playing not get an opportunity, And they didn't give
29:18
Speaker 3: me any guarantees, you know, for a non guaranteed contract,
29:22
Speaker 3: may play, may not play. You just come here to
29:25
Speaker 3: work basically, and you know, obviously paid off. But in
29:30
Speaker 3: the moment, I had no idea, and I was older,
29:34
Speaker 3: I was twenty six. I was about to be twenty seven,
29:37
Speaker 3: really built myself up to be a star Europe. But
29:40
Speaker 3: now stepping back, coming in back in the NBA, the
29:44
Speaker 3: mindset was, you know, just keep my head down, work hard,
29:48
Speaker 3: and do whatever I'm told, and you know, try to
29:51
Speaker 3: be you know, the tone set every day, practice, work hard,
29:55
Speaker 3: be vocal, and just be one of those guys that's
29:58
Speaker 3: around and available.
30:00
Speaker 4: And that worked out for me. Yeah.
30:03
Speaker 2: That One of the first conversations I had, along with
30:05
Speaker 2: Jeff Hornisek, the head coach of the Phoenix Suns, who
30:07
Speaker 2: we just tired, was to PJ about playing in Summer
30:10
Speaker 2: League and a lot of summer league guys are like
30:12
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty.
30:13
Speaker 1: Pj's like, oh, man, do I have to?
30:15
Speaker 2: But the fact that he did and led us all
30:17
Speaker 2: the way to the championship game, but I think we
30:20
Speaker 2: lost to the Warriors PG. If I remember right, Draymond Green,
30:23
Speaker 2: a young Draymond Green, and nobody knew who he was
30:25
Speaker 2: at that time other than this play at Michigan State.
30:27
Speaker 2: Was there, so I remember that Pad. And then sometime
30:30
Speaker 2: the next season, the twenty thirteen fourteen season, which was
30:34
Speaker 2: a special year for all of us involved with the Suns,
30:37
Speaker 2: we were picked to be among the very worst teams
30:39
Speaker 2: in the league, like the Vegas win totals had us
30:41
Speaker 2: in eighteen or nineteen, we won forty eight games. So
30:44
Speaker 2: those years, as you know as an executive, that you
30:46
Speaker 2: wildly exceed expectations, are some of the most enjoyable. And
30:50
Speaker 2: the reason I bring all that up is because part
30:52
Speaker 2: way through that twenty thirteen fourteen season, Pj's now in
30:55
Speaker 2: his second year with the Suns. He's playing great, and
30:59
Speaker 2: there's an article. I don't know if you remember PJ,
31:00
Speaker 2: but I think it was in the New York Times
31:02
Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal. It's like the NBA's most underpaid man,
31:05
Speaker 2: and it was a picture of So I'm sitting on
31:07
Speaker 2: the baseline and practice one day up in the stands
31:10
Speaker 2: and PJ comes over with the big rent in his face.
31:12
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, Ryan, do you see that article?
31:14
Speaker 4: You know?
31:14
Speaker 2: And I was, and i'd seen it, but I was like, no,
31:16
Speaker 2: you know, what are you talking about. He was like,
31:18
Speaker 2: I'll text it to you.
31:19
Speaker 4: So I think the.
31:20
Speaker 2: Next year, you know, he got his first significant NBA contract.
31:23
Speaker 2: But I don't know why I just thought of that story.
31:24
Speaker 2: It comes to mind because.
31:26
Speaker 3: He that was, you know, it's funny, like I thought
31:29
Speaker 3: it was awesome at first, I was like, I don't
31:32
Speaker 3: know if I loved that day.
31:37
Speaker 4: That was that was awesome. Those are still I still
31:40
Speaker 4: talk about those Phoenix days. We weren't picked to be good,
31:44
Speaker 4: but we were just dogs. Man.
31:45
Speaker 3: We just had a bunch of guys that were super close.
31:49
Speaker 3: We all to this day, we're still all friends, but
31:51
Speaker 3: we it was the dog days, man. We just went
31:54
Speaker 3: every single day. Our practices were worse than games, like
31:57
Speaker 3: we we literally we would kill each other practice. All
32:00
Speaker 3: these guys loved being a gym, love working out, love playing,
32:04
Speaker 3: And that year they picked us one be one of
32:05
Speaker 3: the worst teams in the league, but we came out.
32:08
Speaker 4: It was the game away from being in the playoffs.
32:10
Speaker 4: Was unreal.
32:11
Speaker 3: You know, it's a season where we didn't make it,
32:13
Speaker 3: but it was still an unbelievable season to make the
32:16
Speaker 3: jump that we did that year.
32:18
Speaker 1: PJ. I just want to rewind for a quick second.
32:19
Speaker 1: You said when you were over in Europe, you were there,
32:22
Speaker 1: you were committed, you weren't really thinking about the NBA.
32:25
Speaker 1: So how did you or your agent keep you relevant
32:29
Speaker 1: in the NBA and how did this opportunity with Phoenix
32:32
Speaker 1: present itself and just lastly, you know Toronto maybe wasn't
32:36
Speaker 1: the perfect fit. On the draft night, What did you
32:38
Speaker 1: put into your decision as to which team you were
32:41
Speaker 1: going to pick to return to the NBA to play for.
32:44
Speaker 3: That's actually a really good question. That was probably half
32:47
Speaker 3: of my decision was because it was Lance. I've known
32:50
Speaker 3: Lance since I was in He went to Texas, I
32:53
Speaker 3: went to Texas. Uh. He's the first NBA person I
32:56
Speaker 3: talked to when he was because at the time he
32:58
Speaker 3: was with Cleveland as assistant GM and he was a
33:03
Speaker 3: big part of the reason for everything for like as
33:07
Speaker 3: far as NBA for me early on. So when he
33:11
Speaker 3: called and I don't know what andre, I don't know
33:13
Speaker 3: what he did to keep it relevant. I don't know
33:15
Speaker 3: if I was relevant. I have no idea how any
33:18
Speaker 3: of this even came about. I know it was the
33:20
Speaker 3: sum of the opportunity and I was making a decision
33:22
Speaker 3: on even going so h me going playing well, it's
33:27
Speaker 3: still for me was not enough to get me to
33:29
Speaker 3: come back.
33:31
Speaker 4: It was Lance.
33:32
Speaker 3: It felt good, but I just know I worked so
33:35
Speaker 3: hard over the last few years to build up what
33:37
Speaker 3: I had, uh, and I didn't want to spoil it
33:39
Speaker 3: all coming back to NBA and kind of going through
33:41
Speaker 3: the same situation again, and that that in itself, you
33:45
Speaker 3: gotta put some you have some belief in yourself, and obviously, uh,
33:48
Speaker 3: you know, I believed in myself, but to double down
33:52
Speaker 3: and come back and you know, saying we know it,
33:54
Speaker 3: let me give this another run, let me get us
33:56
Speaker 3: another try. It took a lot out of me to
33:58
Speaker 3: do that, and I credit Lance Recipe as blanks. But
34:03
Speaker 3: Lance had my back the whole time and just told
34:05
Speaker 3: me what he wanted me to do. And he told
34:07
Speaker 3: me if I did that, I'll be playing a long time.
34:10
Speaker 3: And he was right.
34:11
Speaker 1: PJ, what were your biggest concerns coming back?
34:14
Speaker 4: Like?
34:14
Speaker 1: What was what was the fear? What was the anxiety
34:17
Speaker 1: about returning to the NBA.
34:18
Speaker 3: I knew I was a better player, but my my
34:20
Speaker 3: thing was did not get a chance. I feel like
34:22
Speaker 3: in Toronto I never got a chance to even prove
34:25
Speaker 3: or show what I could do. I feel like once
34:29
Speaker 3: I did that, I could I could actually play. You know,
34:32
Speaker 3: I just show that I could actually play, But I
34:34
Speaker 3: still didn't know if I would actually get a chance.
34:38
Speaker 3: When I looked at the Sun's roster, you know, it
34:39
Speaker 3: looked like maybe I could, you know, get a chance
34:42
Speaker 3: and you know whatever, but it still doesn't meanything. In NBA,
34:46
Speaker 3: you never know, and that uncertainty was what did.
34:49
Speaker 4: It for me.
34:51
Speaker 2: Y if that had one of the challenges that fringe
34:53
Speaker 2: NBA players have, which PJA was at the time, do
34:55
Speaker 2: you go overseas and be a star and make the solid,
34:58
Speaker 2: guaranteed money or do you hang around the G League
35:02
Speaker 2: you make really no money, but then you're more on
35:05
Speaker 2: the radar of teams and the call ups easier. Right
35:08
Speaker 2: if they need a player, they can get you immediately.
35:09
Speaker 2: You can be on a plane at the arena that night.
35:12
Speaker 2: So that's the balance that he went through PG. One
35:15
Speaker 2: of the things that I knew but really stood out
35:17
Speaker 2: to me when I was doing research for the show
35:20
Speaker 2: and going through your career history, especially after Toronto and Phoenix,
35:24
Speaker 2: was just how many great players and future Hall of
35:27
Speaker 2: famers you played with. So for our listeners, I'll rattle
35:31
Speaker 2: off a bunch of names, take it whichever way you wanted, Tuck,
35:34
Speaker 2: but the guys that I think are likely going to
35:36
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame that you played with or Kyle
35:38
Speaker 2: Lowry and Toronto James Harden and Chris Paul and Houston
35:42
Speaker 2: actually played with James three times if my math is correct,
35:45
Speaker 2: with Philly and the Clippers as well, Jannis in Milwaukee
35:49
Speaker 2: the magical twenty twenty one championship season, Jimmy Butler in Miami,
35:53
Speaker 2: Joel Embiid as well as Kawhi, Leonard, Paul George, and
35:57
Speaker 2: then most recently this year, Jalen Brunson and Anthony Towns
36:01
Speaker 2: may be headed the Hall of Fame as well. So
36:02
Speaker 2: by my account, PJ, that's about ten Hall of Famers.
36:05
Speaker 2: What stands out to you in any common traits or
36:08
Speaker 2: things that those guys have in common when you look
36:10
Speaker 2: back at your all time great teammates.
36:13
Speaker 3: Oh man pooh, I think all those guys the folk
36:24
Speaker 3: like the laser focus. Who gotta have to be that great?
36:27
Speaker 3: Those guys have it and it's and it's is something
36:30
Speaker 3: that only players understand. When you're out there and you're playing,
36:35
Speaker 3: you know, the big moments you go through all the
36:37
Speaker 3: trials and two places of the season. When you get
36:39
Speaker 3: those big moments in games and then in the playoffs
36:41
Speaker 3: and the games, those guys the way they lock in
36:46
Speaker 3: to be able to win, I think, I think It's
36:49
Speaker 3: something that young guys and the average basketball fan, they'll
36:53
Speaker 3: never understand the level where it kind of where you're
36:56
Speaker 3: kind of at the level and then you just kind
36:58
Speaker 3: of level up even more where kind of like the
37:00
Speaker 3: separation of all those guys have that.
37:04
Speaker 1: That's it's amazing. I think the other commonality of those
37:07
Speaker 1: ten players as they played with you.
37:12
Speaker 5: There now all joking aside though, like PJ you've talked
37:17
Speaker 5: about like so many champions are shaped by the challenges
37:21
Speaker 5: and adversities they have throughout their career.
37:23
Speaker 1: But who are some of your mentors? Like how did
37:25
Speaker 1: you become this excellent teammate the guy who pushes guys, establishes,
37:30
Speaker 1: you know, standards of excellence and holds guys to those standards, Like,
37:34
Speaker 1: how did you become that? Who are some of the
37:36
Speaker 1: mentors you were trying to trying to follow in their footsteps?
37:40
Speaker 4: That's a going I don't. I think most of my
37:43
Speaker 4: mentors were were coaches.
37:48
Speaker 3: Honestly, Dan Marley was the start. Dan helped me a
37:53
Speaker 3: ton when I first got back. He was our coach
37:54
Speaker 3: for some league and Thunder literally kind of helped me
38:00
Speaker 3: just mold this role of what he thought and what
38:05
Speaker 3: I would soon to think that would become PJ. Tucker
38:08
Speaker 3: right like hanging well, I was to hang my hat on,
38:11
Speaker 3: and he was just wanted me to pick everybody up,
38:13
Speaker 3: want me to turn everybody in the back court, pressure
38:17
Speaker 3: the ball every single possession, getting every fifty fifty ball right,
38:22
Speaker 3: running everything down, being able to stress to court and
38:25
Speaker 3: being consistent making the corner three and putting the work
38:27
Speaker 3: in the be able through spoe shooter. He stressed bringing
38:31
Speaker 3: my teammates in all the time. Communication part of that aspect,
38:36
Speaker 3: being able to talk so many things, and he like
38:39
Speaker 3: he just helped me piece all these pieces together to
38:41
Speaker 3: be able to be this complete role player and to
38:44
Speaker 3: be able to help my team win no matter you know,
38:47
Speaker 3: the situation or adversities throughout throughout the season or year,
38:51
Speaker 3: and those things. It's so because people talk about it
38:55
Speaker 3: and I don't. It's all the things I naturally did
38:58
Speaker 3: from playing with Rick, from playing playing on the rig.
39:01
Speaker 3: You get all those all those things I just talked about.
39:03
Speaker 3: You get all of that plan from him. You know,
39:06
Speaker 3: it's it's incredible, and I to you need the confidence
39:10
Speaker 3: to be able to continue to do it as a
39:11
Speaker 3: pro because your voice isn't as big and uh. But
39:15
Speaker 3: that's why I think the coaches were more than mentors,
39:17
Speaker 3: having uh d'An TONI where he literally just empowered me
39:22
Speaker 3: to be fully everything I was almost didn't no wrong
39:27
Speaker 3: in Mike's eyes. Mike, just if I said it, then
39:30
Speaker 3: that's what it was, you know, Mike. Mike gave me
39:32
Speaker 3: a confidence and in my voice to be able to
39:36
Speaker 3: be the main guy on the team. Uh from a
39:39
Speaker 3: role standpoint, and and it sounds crazy. We're playing with
39:42
Speaker 3: Chris Ball, uh, Tan Tarden, all this, all the great guys,
39:46
Speaker 3: playing with Eric Gordon. We had a bunch of guys.
39:48
Speaker 3: But to have that vocal role in that team with
39:51
Speaker 3: all those great players, he empowered me to do that,
39:54
Speaker 3: and that I think he just took my leadership to
39:56
Speaker 3: a whole other level.
39:59
Speaker 2: Dig were a this show just a few days after
40:02
Speaker 2: the OKC Thunder won the twenty twenty five NBA Championship.
40:06
Speaker 2: But I want you to take us back to twenty
40:08
Speaker 2: twenty one. You were only with the Milwaukee Bucks one year.
40:12
Speaker 2: It was a magical year. You guys were down two
40:15
Speaker 2: in the NBA Finals against the Phoenix Suns. You broke
40:18
Speaker 2: a lot of hearts to be honest, I still lived
40:19
Speaker 2: in the valley at that time. As one of the
40:21
Speaker 2: most popular sons of the last few decades. That historic comeback.
40:25
Speaker 2: So take us back now, you know, four years later,
40:28
Speaker 2: what stands out to you and then specifically if you
40:30
Speaker 2: could get into Giannis because he had one of the
40:33
Speaker 2: all time great performances in the history of the playoffs.
40:35
Speaker 2: Remember what he did in that game six to win it.
40:39
Speaker 2: His free throw percentage, which had been an issue for him,
40:41
Speaker 2: I was off the charts in that clinching Game six.
40:43
Speaker 2: What stands out to you as you reflect four years later.
40:47
Speaker 3: Oh man stands out the most Probably the finals, being
40:53
Speaker 3: down two and being in a locker room, walking in
40:57
Speaker 3: the locker room at the game two and everybody being like,
41:03
Speaker 3: we're gonna win this. It was a it was a
41:06
Speaker 3: confidence after losing, uh and that was a swagger that
41:10
Speaker 3: was kind of built by that team. It was one
41:12
Speaker 3: of those things where it was like and it wasn't
41:15
Speaker 3: it wasn't super verbal, that's high five, and it was
41:19
Speaker 3: just that calm confidence of we're gonna win, Like that's okay,
41:24
Speaker 3: that's what they got. We're gonna win this series. And
41:28
Speaker 3: we said it from the beginning from walking into the
41:30
Speaker 3: locked from that night for the next four games, game
41:33
Speaker 3: by game, walking it down, go and take your business, guys,
41:36
Speaker 3: literally locked in. To be able to win four games
41:39
Speaker 3: in a row and to be a part of a
41:41
Speaker 3: team that was mature enough to be able to recognize
41:46
Speaker 3: what was going on U and make the adjustments to
41:49
Speaker 3: be able to win and those situations was incredible. And
41:52
Speaker 3: I think that that's the number one things that stands
41:54
Speaker 3: out for that team.
41:56
Speaker 4: Uh.
41:57
Speaker 3: It was it was literally from man, whatever it takes
42:02
Speaker 3: to win, whatever we got to do. Uh. And like
42:04
Speaker 3: you were saying about Gianni's being incredible in that series,
42:07
Speaker 3: he had just got hurt in Atlanta the series before
42:11
Speaker 3: we finished that series out brook lope As was incredible. Uh,
42:15
Speaker 3: Game five six against Atlanta. But to get to the
42:19
Speaker 3: Suns and Giannis comes back where people thought he was
42:22
Speaker 3: still going to be out and I think he went
42:24
Speaker 3: for fifty first game or something like that, and it
42:27
Speaker 3: was incredible.
42:28
Speaker 4: We lost.
42:29
Speaker 3: Uh.
42:30
Speaker 4: And at the game too, we had like a little
42:32
Speaker 4: team meeting.
42:33
Speaker 3: With Gianni's about you know, what we thought we need
42:36
Speaker 3: to do to win and you know, some little things
42:39
Speaker 3: to him and he never he never took anything personal
42:42
Speaker 3: he never like at all, like one word, he was
42:46
Speaker 3: like okay, guys, and and we went from there and
42:49
Speaker 3: then that, and that the maturity of him, even at
42:51
Speaker 3: that time, he wanted to win that bad. One of
42:55
Speaker 3: the most fiercest competitors I've ever played with. He's like,
42:58
Speaker 3: he's like Mike Tyson, got each your kids, Like he'll
43:01
Speaker 3: dunk on on baby, Like he doesn't care. And he
43:04
Speaker 3: plays that hard and he's of out that much where
43:07
Speaker 3: every day in practice, every time he lays him up,
43:10
Speaker 3: he's just one thousand percent. And that's the one thing
43:13
Speaker 3: I respect most about him. When I speak about eyes PJ.
43:16
Speaker 1: You've played in the playoffs the last nine seasons. Over
43:20
Speaker 1: that time, you've gone from kind of being a starter
43:22
Speaker 1: playing in the playoffs to a rotational player to a
43:24
Speaker 1: role player. Now, how has your role your preparation changed
43:28
Speaker 1: at all in those nine years or is it exactly
43:30
Speaker 1: the same regardless of the role you have.
43:33
Speaker 4: It's been exactly the same.
43:36
Speaker 3: I literally I still warm up like I'm about to
43:39
Speaker 3: play thirty five minutes forty minutes a game. I still mentally,
43:43
Speaker 3: I still do all the same things every single game.
43:47
Speaker 3: And it may sound and it me and oh It's
43:50
Speaker 3: funny because Jeff Jetz has a podcast. He played with
43:54
Speaker 3: me in the Walk game. Jeff is the probably the
43:56
Speaker 3: funniest player player I've ever played with.
43:58
Speaker 4: He's Hilaryrius.
44:00
Speaker 3: But I talked to Jeff. I was like, Yo, you
44:02
Speaker 3: know it's crazy. I was like, I really, I still
44:04
Speaker 3: warm up. I tell him I have to go warm
44:06
Speaker 3: up and he's like for what, He's like, you ain't
44:09
Speaker 3: get it a game. I was like, I know. I
44:10
Speaker 3: was like, but I still warm up and do the
44:13
Speaker 3: same things every single game to be able to mentally
44:17
Speaker 3: be there every time I had to.
44:20
Speaker 4: It's a part of my routine. It's part of my regiment.
44:22
Speaker 4: It is a part of me.
44:23
Speaker 3: Being locked into the game is a part of the
44:26
Speaker 3: professional showing the young guys this is what this is
44:29
Speaker 3: what it takes. I've played for the Venison Playoffs series
44:33
Speaker 3: for you know, for years. I know what it takes
44:36
Speaker 3: to get there and what it takes to be locked
44:38
Speaker 3: in and maintain that throughout the season, throughout the playoffs,
44:44
Speaker 3: and it's more mental.
44:45
Speaker 4: It is all mental. It's all mental.
44:46
Speaker 3: Be able to be locked in for a game, you
44:48
Speaker 3: know everything that's going on, doing the coverage, just knowing
44:51
Speaker 3: everything being able to you know, I'm talking on the side,
44:53
Speaker 3: but I'm talking from a standpoint of know how and
44:57
Speaker 3: studying the game and knowing who we're playing and what
44:59
Speaker 3: we're trying to do. And I think that's why guys,
45:02
Speaker 3: you know, love you know my communication. It's not always
45:06
Speaker 3: the best in certain times, but it's always from a
45:09
Speaker 3: positive place of wing to win.
45:10
Speaker 4: So I think that's what guys were specting at PGA.
45:14
Speaker 2: Nothing I think surprises guys like you and that. And
45:17
Speaker 2: I have been around pro sports for decades now, Sad
45:20
Speaker 2: and I did a recent episode about how many coaches
45:22
Speaker 2: of the Year in the NBA and manager of the
45:25
Speaker 2: Year in Major League Baseball were fired shortly thereafter.
45:28
Speaker 4: So take us inside.
45:30
Speaker 2: You know your experience this year, you got added to
45:32
Speaker 2: the knixt mid season. It was a magical run in
45:35
Speaker 2: New York. The best next season in you know, past
45:38
Speaker 2: twenty five or so years. Tom Thibodeaux got fired. You know,
45:42
Speaker 2: it was not nothing shocks me anymore. That was a
45:45
Speaker 2: bit of a surprise. So given how well the team did,
45:47
Speaker 2: and given his relationship with Leon Rose in the front office.
45:50
Speaker 2: So what was your experience like playing for Tips and
45:52
Speaker 2: what was it like to be in New York and
45:54
Speaker 2: be in Manhattan with the Knicks having one of their
45:56
Speaker 2: best seasons in the past few decades.
45:59
Speaker 3: It was incredible just to be in New York during
46:01
Speaker 3: that time. It was unbelievable. I mean, you can imagine
46:04
Speaker 3: the fans of fans from one of a com but uh,
46:09
Speaker 3: I think, uh, you know, comingto this situation late, uh
46:12
Speaker 3: and and really just coming straight into being an event
46:15
Speaker 3: leadership role.
46:17
Speaker 4: It was kind of weird at first, from not being
46:20
Speaker 4: on the team to.
46:21
Speaker 3: Just jumping straight into being like the vocal leader and
46:24
Speaker 3: you know, being all that. Uh. It took me a
46:26
Speaker 3: couple of weeks to get in, but once I got in,
46:28
Speaker 3: I was in. I think, Uh, Tims. Tims is one
46:33
Speaker 3: of those coaches where he's gonna get everything out of
46:36
Speaker 3: guys out there, right, He's gonna push everybody to the break,
46:40
Speaker 3: you know, having been being the voice of the team,
46:43
Speaker 3: you know everybody, you know, super respect level for for
46:46
Speaker 3: Tims just through the roof.
46:48
Speaker 4: You know, he demands that.
46:49
Speaker 3: Now. I love the attention to detail of every single game,
46:55
Speaker 3: having to focus h you know, and even even in coverage,
46:59
Speaker 3: being able to have conversation with him and talk about
47:02
Speaker 3: things that going on with the team. Uh, he's just
47:04
Speaker 3: one of those guys, you know, defensive coach and his
47:07
Speaker 3: strong willed and I love that. And I think that
47:10
Speaker 3: that's what made it even more surprising than me when
47:13
Speaker 3: he got to let go. So I was I've been
47:15
Speaker 3: with a couple of coaches that have pretty good seasons
47:17
Speaker 3: get fired, So it's always surprising. But that's just one
47:22
Speaker 3: of those things. That's just one of those where you
47:24
Speaker 3: just don't You just never know. Man, in this league,
47:27
Speaker 3: you never know what type of coach. Do you think
47:30
Speaker 3: we'll have the most success coaching the next moving forward?
47:33
Speaker 4: Oh that's a good question. Now, that's a really good question.
47:37
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know.
47:38
Speaker 3: I'll say that I don't know because the versatility of
47:41
Speaker 3: our team is so good, and I think that's what
47:44
Speaker 3: made us so good, being able to play different ways,
47:48
Speaker 3: even you know, I was even around the team when
47:52
Speaker 3: Jalen went out when he wrote wrote his ankle of
47:55
Speaker 3: how we kind of changed up how we played and
47:57
Speaker 3: we went through a couple other guys at different times
47:59
Speaker 3: and still being able to win, you know, minus the
48:02
Speaker 3: All NBA player. That's how good our team was. So
48:07
Speaker 3: I think it's a coach that it's going to be
48:08
Speaker 3: able to make adjustments, being able to switch it up,
48:12
Speaker 3: not just still be one thing, being able to win
48:14
Speaker 3: different ways. You know, obviously be able to hang our
48:17
Speaker 3: head on defense and play it hard, but just a
48:20
Speaker 3: coach with some versatility.
48:23
Speaker 2: PJA, your career has kind of come full circle from
48:26
Speaker 2: being the young, somewhat immature guy out of Texas going
48:28
Speaker 2: to Europe, as we discussed now, to being one of
48:31
Speaker 2: the old heads, one of the veterans in the locker room.
48:34
Speaker 2: At forty years old, you're one of the oldest players
48:36
Speaker 2: still playing. Give us your pitch talk if that night
48:39
Speaker 2: your GMS, if you know you're talking to either Leon
48:42
Speaker 2: Rose or Worldwide West in the Knicks front office or
48:44
Speaker 2: the other twenty nine gms. What do you bring at
48:47
Speaker 2: this stage in your career with your age and experience
48:50
Speaker 2: and in track record of winning, I mean, your track
48:52
Speaker 2: record of being in the playoffs pretty much every year
48:53
Speaker 2: is really exceptional of it really the last decade. What
48:56
Speaker 2: do you think you still can bring to an NBA team?
49:00
Speaker 4: Literally everything we just talked about. It's funny.
49:04
Speaker 3: Just being able to still be healthy, which has been
49:08
Speaker 3: the biggest blessing, especially this later part of my career,
49:11
Speaker 3: not be injury free, uh, to still be able to
49:14
Speaker 3: actually play basketball, but at the same time being a
49:18
Speaker 3: guy that you never got to worried about. Always count on. No,
49:21
Speaker 3: always going to have young guys in their place. Uh No,
49:24
Speaker 3: always gonna have you know, the main guys back keeping
49:27
Speaker 3: them the line, making sure everything's going right and the
49:29
Speaker 3: locker room's good. Uh, it's always positive. Everybody's still together,
49:33
Speaker 3: locking the team in. UH. And being being able to
49:36
Speaker 3: be a guys prepared for every stage of the season.
49:39
Speaker 3: I think that's the biggest part, especial who got a
49:41
Speaker 3: lot of young to middle range guys being up to
49:44
Speaker 3: stay focused for a whole entire season, upside down, the road,
49:47
Speaker 3: coast over the season, always being locked in, being prepared, uh,
49:51
Speaker 3: and focus and get ready for the task a hand
49:53
Speaker 3: every single day.
49:54
Speaker 1: PJ, We're gonna help you build your deck. Here for
49:55
Speaker 1: a second. You've won championships, You've been an MVP. I
49:59
Speaker 1: want to ask you, like, how much do these quotes
50:01
Speaker 1: mean to you? You donnas had them, says I love PJ.
50:05
Speaker 1: He only complains about bad defense. That's the kind of
50:07
Speaker 1: teammate I want to round. Jimmy Butler PJ is one
50:11
Speaker 1: of the biggest reasons why we're winning here. And I
50:14
Speaker 1: hope I don't mispronounce this guy's name, George's Nyang. That
50:18
Speaker 1: guy's a warrior. He's someone that will run through a
50:20
Speaker 1: brick wall and run through the other team to help
50:22
Speaker 1: his team. He knows what it takes to get to
50:24
Speaker 1: the top of the mountain. I'm extremely excited to play
50:27
Speaker 1: alongside of him. What do those quotes mean to you?
50:32
Speaker 3: That's the reason why you still play right, Like that
50:34
Speaker 3: stuff is like why, but a million reasons why.
50:38
Speaker 4: For me, that's top of the top of the list.
50:41
Speaker 3: Is the best part about playing this game is the
50:44
Speaker 3: relationships you build with the guys that you're alongside and
50:47
Speaker 3: you go to Woolward every single night. The lifetime relationships
50:51
Speaker 3: I've seen gorgeous past year and we're just we say, hey,
50:56
Speaker 3: we just hugged each other, like he's my guy, Like
50:58
Speaker 3: he's a fox old guy. I'll my playing with it,
51:02
Speaker 3: playing against for years and he'll always be my brother.
51:06
Speaker 3: And it's those relationships and having guys respect you to
51:09
Speaker 3: that level, especially when you're a role guy where you're
51:12
Speaker 3: not you know, the main guy is scoring thirty at
51:15
Speaker 3: night and doing all this stuff.
51:17
Speaker 4: But when you're in the church, is just doing everything.
51:19
Speaker 3: It takes them winning every night and not caring about
51:21
Speaker 3: anything but winning heavy. Your teammates appreciate that means the world,
51:26
Speaker 3: So that means everything.
51:29
Speaker 2: He is PJ Tucker. You've seen him on NBA courts
51:31
Speaker 2: for almost two decades. You almost certainly see him again
51:34
Speaker 2: next season because everywhere he goes, that team wins. It's
51:37
Speaker 2: been in the playoffs nine years in a row, the
51:38
Speaker 2: championship in twenty twenty one, the next in the Eastern
51:41
Speaker 2: Conference finals this season. We'll see what next year holds.
51:45
Speaker 4: PJ.
51:45
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on Rosters to Rings. That Levine
51:48
Speaker 2: and I will be back with more right after this
52:05
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. He's Ryan mcdonoughh and
52:08
Speaker 2: Fad Levine. What a wonderful conversation with PJ. Tucker and Apropos.
52:12
Speaker 2: The question of the week from our listeners ties directly
52:15
Speaker 2: into this Ryan. It comes from d W of Denver,
52:19
Speaker 2: Colorado says, watching the NBA Finals, I heard the broadcasters
52:23
Speaker 2: talk a lot about the impact of James Johnson and
52:25
Speaker 2: Jalen Williams. Can you talk about the impact role players
52:28
Speaker 2: have on championship teams. Absolutely fat. Let's start with those
52:33
Speaker 2: two guys in particular. James Johnson is also known as
52:37
Speaker 2: the scariest guy in the NBA. He's the one that
52:40
Speaker 2: every time they do one of these fun player polls,
52:42
Speaker 2: who is the guy you would least like to fight,
52:44
Speaker 2: Who's the guy you want on your side if a
52:46
Speaker 2: fight breaks out, James Johnson is always number one by
52:49
Speaker 2: a wide margin. Come from a family of mixed martial artists.
52:53
Speaker 2: I believe they're from Wisconsin. So this guy's a legendary
52:57
Speaker 2: tough guy in NBA circles that posing players don't even
52:59
Speaker 2: dare test. They kind of back down, and even the
53:01
Speaker 2: guys you think are tough kind of power to James Johnson.
53:05
Speaker 2: But I think with him. And then yeah, Jalen Williams
53:07
Speaker 2: on OKAC. Used to be clear, we're talking about the
53:10
Speaker 2: Arkansas Jaylen Williams, the third string center for the Thunder,
53:13
Speaker 2: not the guy who is just Okaysee's second best player,
53:16
Speaker 2: the perimeter guy out of Santa Clarita. Jalen Williams, the
53:19
Speaker 2: center on the Thunder. I think what those two guys
53:21
Speaker 2: have in particular, that is the respect of their teammates,
53:25
Speaker 2: and they're different. James Johnson is more in the PJ.
53:28
Speaker 2: Tucker mold. He's been around the league, he's you know,
53:31
Speaker 2: been a very good player, he's been a role player.
53:35
Speaker 2: Now in his role with the Indiana Pacers, he really
53:38
Speaker 2: doesn't play much, if at all. But you know, it's
53:41
Speaker 2: interesting you watch him. You're in the finals, and he's
53:43
Speaker 2: done this throughout the year. He's to some extent, Tyre's
53:46
Speaker 2: Halliburton's bodyguard. I know Terrus Hay Aliburton doesn't necessarily need that,
53:49
Speaker 2: but I think it's it's a mindset in a mentality
53:52
Speaker 2: fad where he's out on the court before Tyre's Haliburt
53:55
Speaker 2: and he's watching him making sure there's no, you know,
53:57
Speaker 2: any problems. He waits for Haliburton after he does his
53:59
Speaker 2: post interviews or whatever. So that leadership, combined with the
54:03
Speaker 2: vocal leadership in the locker room, is a lot of
54:05
Speaker 2: the reason guys like PJ. Tucker and James Johnson continue
54:08
Speaker 2: to get jobs and stick around, you know, later in
54:11
Speaker 2: their career at a time in ages where most players
54:13
Speaker 2: have cycled out of the NBA and moved on to
54:16
Speaker 2: other pursuits. Jalen Williams is a little bit different than
54:19
Speaker 2: that that he's a younger player. He's only been in
54:21
Speaker 2: the league a handful of years out of Arkansas. But
54:24
Speaker 2: certain guys stand out because of their professionalism, because of
54:28
Speaker 2: their approach. As you know, it's not just what you
54:30
Speaker 2: do on the court, it's what you do in particular
54:33
Speaker 2: in these kind of roles off the court. How professional
54:35
Speaker 2: are you in practice in the weight room, on the
54:38
Speaker 2: team bus or the team plane at events in the community. Really,
54:42
Speaker 2: how do you live your life? How do you carry yourself?
54:45
Speaker 2: And they are you a guy that other players can
54:47
Speaker 2: emulate and that the organization can look to as an
54:49
Speaker 2: example for those other players say, look, if you act
54:52
Speaker 2: like this guy, you're going to be fine. So for
54:54
Speaker 2: me that a couple of guys stand out in my
54:56
Speaker 2: career that I've been around. With the Celtics we had
54:59
Speaker 2: Jeff Green had also Ish Smith and Ronnie Price in Phoenix,
55:03
Speaker 2: and then of course PJ. Tucker, who we just interviewed.
55:05
Speaker 2: But for you that who are some of the guys
55:06
Speaker 2: as you look back on your career, you know, with
55:09
Speaker 2: the Rockies, with the Rangers, the Twins, other some veteran
55:13
Speaker 2: leaders who stand out to you as exemplary players and
55:16
Speaker 2: people in that clubhouse.
55:18
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like Jeff Green is the Where's Waldo
55:21
Speaker 1: of rosters to rings. He's going to show up in
55:23
Speaker 1: every one of our episodes at some point.
55:26
Speaker 4: You know.
55:26
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about this a little bit before,
55:28
Speaker 1: but when you're building a championship roster, I think what
55:31
Speaker 1: the fans see is it's really a living organism. And
55:34
Speaker 1: I always felt like you could buy muscle if you
55:37
Speaker 1: needed to buy muscle. In baseball. That shows up in
55:39
Speaker 1: the forms of home runs, RBI, getting pitched. Like if
55:42
Speaker 1: you're willing to spend on the free agent market, if
55:44
Speaker 1: you're willing to trade prospects to get those types of players,
55:48
Speaker 1: those guys are readily available almost every trade deadline every
55:51
Speaker 1: off season. The guys that we're talking about, though, were
55:53
Speaker 1: a little bit different. I view those guys as the
55:56
Speaker 1: heart and soul players. Those are the players who have
55:58
Speaker 1: the ability to elevate level of play of the people
56:01
Speaker 1: around them and the genuine care to invest in that commitment.
56:05
Speaker 1: And I think those are such unique players. I think
56:07
Speaker 1: we're hunting them every offseason. We're trying to build those
56:11
Speaker 1: guys into your clubhouse. Because they really accentuate the championship culture.
56:15
Speaker 1: Regardless of what people like Ryan and I say, or
56:18
Speaker 1: even what the head coach or the manager says. If
56:21
Speaker 1: the peers are saying it and holding each other to
56:23
Speaker 1: those standards, that's when change is affected. That's when culture
56:26
Speaker 1: really takes root. And so what I look back to
56:29
Speaker 1: some of the championship teams that I got to work
56:32
Speaker 1: for and some of the guys who transformed those locker rooms.
56:35
Speaker 1: One guy that jumps out to mind Jeff Frankcor in
56:38
Speaker 1: twenty ten the Texas Rangers. We actually acquired him on
56:41
Speaker 1: August thirty first, which meant that he was not going
56:43
Speaker 1: to be eligible to play in the playoffs for US,
56:46
Speaker 1: and in one month's time it certainly helped that he
56:48
Speaker 1: hit three forty, but I think he really elevated a
56:51
Speaker 1: locker room that wasn't perfectly sure that they were poised
56:54
Speaker 1: to win at that time, never played in the playoffs
56:57
Speaker 1: as a team, and he kind of came in with
56:59
Speaker 1: this incredible attitude of why not us and why not now?
57:02
Speaker 1: And I think the guys really bought into that. It
57:04
Speaker 1: was pretty special. Other guys who jumped to mind in
57:06
Speaker 1: my career, Darren Oliver was an exceptional pitcher, a rock.
57:10
Speaker 1: He was a guy who had been a very successful
57:13
Speaker 1: starting pitcher, reinvented himself as a relief pitcher, and he
57:17
Speaker 1: really raised the standard of excellence in our bullpen. And
57:19
Speaker 1: I always felt the best teams I was around had
57:22
Speaker 1: a leader in the position player unit, the starting pitching unit,
57:25
Speaker 1: and the relief unit. He was every bit the captain
57:28
Speaker 1: of our bullpen. Another guy who had exceptional swagger. Ryan
57:32
Speaker 1: was a guy that you had overlapped with as at
57:34
Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox fan. His name's Mike Napoley. Mike Napley
57:37
Speaker 1: was just a guy who unbuttoned his shirt about down
57:40
Speaker 1: to the sternum, just let it all hang out. Had
57:43
Speaker 1: a lot of your card noir on every game, just
57:45
Speaker 1: in case, and he just carried himself as if he
57:48
Speaker 1: was better than anybody on the field, and often he
57:50
Speaker 1: was right. He was an exceptional boost to the overall
57:54
Speaker 1: confidence of the team. He really transformed that team. And
57:58
Speaker 1: then one guy in Minnesota was Christian jim Andez who
58:00
Speaker 1: was at the time the backup catcher. But he was
58:03
Speaker 1: a guy who really elevated the room. Really exceptional players
58:07
Speaker 1: just so blessed to be around those guys, and I
58:11
Speaker 1: will say we hunted a lot of these types of guys,
58:13
Speaker 1: these types of guys who elevated the room make up.
58:16
Speaker 1: There were a lot of wrong decisions along the way,
58:18
Speaker 1: but when you stumbled upon the right ones, as PJ expressed, like,
58:21
Speaker 1: it's just amazing how they really enhanced your chances of
58:24
Speaker 1: winning a championship.
58:26
Speaker 2: Well, they're so necessary that I think to be a
58:29
Speaker 2: successful team in any sport, because if we're being honest,
58:32
Speaker 2: there's only so much the executives and even the head
58:35
Speaker 2: coaching manager can tell the players. If it's not being
58:39
Speaker 2: mirrored in the locker room, if you have an immature
58:42
Speaker 2: group or a group that's less than professional, it's going
58:44
Speaker 2: to be hard to win at the highest levels. And
58:47
Speaker 2: the opposite is true. And that's why those guys you
58:49
Speaker 2: just mentioned stand out, as do on the NBA side,
58:53
Speaker 2: know PJ. Tucker, Ish Smith, Jeff Green and others. James
58:57
Speaker 2: Posey is another great veteran we had with the Boston
58:59
Speaker 2: Celtic who went on to win multiple championships in his career.
59:02
Speaker 2: Because teams just know what they can get, and I
59:05
Speaker 2: think that's one of the things that that executives really appreciate.
59:09
Speaker 2: You know, to be consistent, dependable, and reliable. You don't
59:13
Speaker 2: have to be great, but if you can be consistent, dependable,
59:16
Speaker 2: and reliable in a low maintenance round, ideally a no
59:19
Speaker 2: maintenance player, then that helps a lot. And that helps
59:23
Speaker 2: teams because one of the things, you know, we talk
59:24
Speaker 2: about in the NBA is you have to be better
59:27
Speaker 2: than the some of your problems. So whatever your problems
59:29
Speaker 2: are on the quarter, in particular off the court, look
59:33
Speaker 2: if you're the thirteenth to fifteenth man, you can't be
59:35
Speaker 2: causing a lot of issues because it's easier to just
59:37
Speaker 2: get ready you and bringing somebody else, you know, like
59:39
Speaker 2: a PJ. Tucker, like a Ronnie Price, like some of
59:41
Speaker 2: the guys I mentioned, who are going to be great
59:43
Speaker 2: soldiers who will run through a wall. Whatever the role is,
59:46
Speaker 2: they're going to accept it and they're going to uplift others.
59:48
Speaker 2: So I think that's one of the things that's so
59:49
Speaker 2: important that and one of the neat things for me,
59:52
Speaker 2: you know, having to just talk to PJ. Tucker and
59:55
Speaker 2: see the appreciation for not only what he's been able
59:57
Speaker 2: to do in his career, but also so young players
1:00:00
Speaker 2: who have reached out fact we talked about a couple
1:00:02
Speaker 2: of them off air. We won't mention that, but it's
1:00:04
Speaker 2: really neat to see how touch PJ. Tucker is when
1:00:08
Speaker 2: players reach out and say, hey, man, I didn't get
1:00:10
Speaker 2: it as a young guy. Now I understand all those
1:00:13
Speaker 2: lessons you were telling me when I was in my
1:00:15
Speaker 2: teens or early twenties. They're sinking through now because the
1:00:19
Speaker 2: reality is that in the NBA in particular, once you
1:00:21
Speaker 2: get out of the NBA and you go overseas, it's
1:00:24
Speaker 2: very difficult to claw your way back.
1:00:26
Speaker 4: PJ.
1:00:26
Speaker 1: Tucker is the exception rather than the rule.
1:00:29
Speaker 2: So hopefully there's maybe some well at least one young
1:00:31
Speaker 2: player a couple listening to this who have some talent
1:00:33
Speaker 2: but maybe haven't figured out the professional aspect of it,
1:00:36
Speaker 2: because I think in any sport it is incredibly important.
1:00:40
Speaker 1: Well, and I think that's my biggest takeaway. You knew PJ. Well,
1:00:44
Speaker 1: I just got to get to know him in this conversation.
1:00:47
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that he still warms up for
1:00:49
Speaker 1: every single game as if he's going to play forty
1:00:51
Speaker 1: minutes just set such a tone I think throughout the group. Also,
1:00:55
Speaker 1: his humility and citing all the people who really invested
1:00:58
Speaker 1: in him along the way. And it's art with Rick
1:01:00
Speaker 1: Barnes and the testament he gave to him, you know,
1:01:04
Speaker 1: his reflection on what transpired in Toronto, and he's not
1:01:08
Speaker 1: blaming anybody, He's taking accountability for those situations. And he
1:01:11
Speaker 1: grew through those moments. You know, that's probably why he's
1:01:14
Speaker 1: the exception rather than the rule of a guy who
1:01:17
Speaker 1: goes over to Europe and never returns. And now he's
1:01:19
Speaker 1: being sought after by championship caliber organizations. And it's not
1:01:23
Speaker 1: to go out there and play thirty forty minutes. It's
1:01:25
Speaker 1: not to lead the team in rebounding. It's to lead
1:01:28
Speaker 1: the team on the bench and set the tone for
1:01:30
Speaker 1: these guys. And one an exceptional legacy he has now
1:01:33
Speaker 1: that he has some of these younger players reaching back
1:01:36
Speaker 1: out to him. And you know, I think for generations
1:01:38
Speaker 1: to come, people will site back to PJ. Tucker, who
1:01:42
Speaker 1: influenced a guy who influenced me, who I now want
1:01:45
Speaker 1: to influence someoney in my career based upon the investment
1:01:47
Speaker 1: that PJ took in him. You know, one thing I
1:01:50
Speaker 1: look back at another guy who jumps out that I
1:01:53
Speaker 1: didn't mention earlier, was David Ross, who played for the
1:01:56
Speaker 1: Chicago Cubs. I remember as a as a rival executive,
1:01:59
Speaker 1: the Chicago Cubs break their curse and win in twenty sixteen,
1:02:03
Speaker 1: and I thought post game one of the most noteworthy
1:02:06
Speaker 1: things was that Chris Bryantjavey Baias, John Lester, Anthony Rizzo,
1:02:11
Speaker 1: their star quartet, all cited David Ross as the leader
1:02:15
Speaker 1: on that team. And statistically, David Ross probably had washed
1:02:18
Speaker 1: out of the game years before, but they all referenced
1:02:21
Speaker 1: him as the guy who was the glue who kept
1:02:23
Speaker 1: them together. And then it made me look at it.
1:02:25
Speaker 1: You know, of the thirty major league managers right now,
1:02:28
Speaker 1: twenty of them played in the big leagues. I think
1:02:29
Speaker 1: fifteen of them you would classify as a utility player,
1:02:33
Speaker 1: a backup catcher or platoon player. Those guys probably were
1:02:37
Speaker 1: similar to PJ. Tucker in their careers, guys who just
1:02:39
Speaker 1: elevated the room, you know, extended the excellence standards throughout
1:02:44
Speaker 1: the organization. Now they're big league managers, I think there's
1:02:48
Speaker 1: a real strong time to those guys, and a guy
1:02:50
Speaker 1: like PJ. Tucker, I wonder if he has any interest
1:02:52
Speaker 1: in coaching down the road. My guess is. He'd be
1:02:55
Speaker 1: very popular in the locker room.
1:02:57
Speaker 2: I think he'd be great at it. He mentioned the
1:02:59
Speaker 2: impact that Dan Marley thunder Dan, a Phoenix Suns legend
1:03:03
Speaker 2: who was never an NBA head coach. He was an
1:03:04
Speaker 2: assistant coach with the Phoenix Suns the year before I
1:03:06
Speaker 2: got there. He and I became good friends when I
1:03:08
Speaker 2: lived in Phoenix. But yes, it's not always the obvious
1:03:11
Speaker 2: ones that right. It's not always the star player, the
1:03:13
Speaker 2: head coach, or the manager. Who has the biggest influence
1:03:16
Speaker 2: can be somebody else organizationally who the players respect and emulate.
1:03:20
Speaker 2: And pj's respect for Dan Marley was clear in that segment. Well,
1:03:24
Speaker 2: thanks for joining us folks on rosters to rings stat
1:03:26
Speaker 2: As always, I enjoyed it. Come back next week. There's
1:03:29
Speaker 2: a lot going on right now that we're going to
1:03:30
Speaker 2: get into next week. Will know what happened in the
1:03:33
Speaker 2: NBA Draft, who was taken, where were there any big trades.
1:03:36
Speaker 2: Will also be into NBA free agency. That's how quickly
1:03:39
Speaker 2: these things come up, folks, The draft and free agency
1:03:41
Speaker 2: back to back, and then will be within a month
1:03:44
Speaker 2: of the Major League Baseball trade deadline. I want to
1:03:46
Speaker 2: get Thad's take on that as well. He is stad Levine.
1:03:49
Speaker 2: I am Ryan McDonough. Thanks for joining us on Rosters
1:03:52
Speaker 2: to Ring.
1:04:00
Speaker 1: Please join me host bad Levine, Ryan McDonough and other
1:04:04
Speaker 1: general managers every week for Roster Syrings on Apple, Spotify,
1:04:10
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:04:12
Speaker 3: Welcome