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Adulting with Money (with Dan Hinz) · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: On this podcast, we don't just talk about writing.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about topics that affect us as writers.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: One of those topics, of course, is money.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thankful to have a guest today who is here to give us some helpful tips about making the most of our money.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks so much for joining me on this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Kent Sanders, and I'm a ghostwriter and professor of communications.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is the show that helps you write amazing content so you can save time, stand up from the competition, and get more leads that turn into customers or clients.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I am thrilled that my good friend Dan Hines is here to join me for a conversation about the all-important topic of money.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Dan is the gentle soul and financial coach behind adulting with money.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: For seven years, Dan has taught couples how to unite, not fight over money, whether they want to crush debt faster, buy a house sooner, or just want to get on the same page.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Dan is also an adjunct professor in finance when guiding couples toward financial and marital bliss, which of course is close to my heart because I'm a college professor also.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: One of the themes that you'll hear frequently on this podcast is my mentioning of the Total Life Freedom Community, which was created by Vincent Puglisi.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And today is no exception because I got to know Dan via the Total Life Freedom Community, as I have so many other amazing people that you've heard on this podcast.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I really appreciate Dan's heart for helping people and his positive outlook on life.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And also, as you'll hear in the interview, he's just a blast to chat with.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So any time that you get to spend with Dan, whether it's in person or chatting on Zoom or listening to a conversation on a podcast, is definitely time that's well spent.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So in this conversation, Dan is going to share his money story, which I know you'll love and probably will relate to.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he also shares how couples can work together, how to allocate money to your business in the right way, which is a great topic, by the way, and also some strategies for using money wisely.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're really going to enjoy this conversation and gain a lot of insight and wisdom from what Dan has to share.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So with that said, let's get right to the conversation.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Dan, welcome to the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that you were able to join me for this episode today.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: We've been planning this for a little while.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for taking the time out to do this.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Kent.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this is one of the few times on the show that I've actually had somebody on who is what I would consider a money expert.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't talk a lot about money and finances on this show, mainly because it's a it's more of a writing show, but money is a big part of our lives and it's a big part of our business and a big part of our relationship.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really glad that you suggested talking about this because it's a critical area that doesn't get get enough attention.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm looking forward to diving into some things here.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, very good.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm glad to be here.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, when I listened to your show, um, and especially the episode that you mentioned me a couple weeks ago about the teach model.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and that's you know, when it comes to money, uh that that's very similar, is that it's great to have a model, it's great to have a system that you can follow.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the, you know, one of the creeds that I have and that I try to teach my couples when I'm helping them is, you know, consistency beats perfection.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, especially when it comes to writing, we all know that the first draft is never, never the best draft, but you get you got to get through that pain uh and you know, you make those iterations.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out that, you know, it you might start with something not so great, but you can polish it and get better and better and better.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it turns out the same goes with money, is that the more you deal with it, the more you talk about it, the more they can master it uh together.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that is so true.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish that that we would have known you about uh 10 years ago because my wife and I, and this is not something I've really shared publicly on the podcast because it hasn't fit into it, but we got into some issues with debt and um you know having to consolidate some some loans, and we're just now really good on getting all that stuff paid off.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like when you don't realize how much of a an a weight something is in your life until you begin to get it off.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I appreciate the work that you're doing to help people in this area because you know, getting into some some problems with money or not being united with your your spouse on money can really be a huge issue.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and that's that's part of my tagline is that, you know, I help couples unite, not fight over money, whether they want to crush debt faster or buy a house sooner, or they just want to get on the same page.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the the funny thing is that, you know, because I focus so much on couples, my financial coaching is like three things in one.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is that I'm I'm a bit of a finance professor, and you understand the professor part of things.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can teach you all the money stuff and what buttons to click and what apps to use and all that jazz.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but then it's also I'm a little bit of a life coach, is that at some point, you know, I'm I'm helping my couples and helping individuals decide what they want, what it is that they want for their life, what's their end goal, what's their finish line, you know, what do they want to accomplish?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: But then that third part is marriage counseling.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's trying to get couples not to fight, uh, to talk to each other, to listen to each other, talk with each other uh about money and how to do that productively.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the couples that I work with are on one end of the spectrum or the other.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes it's it's a a wife and she can't get her husband to sit down and talk about money with her.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, they're just not seeing eye to eye.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: But then I have other couples that are engaged.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're happy, you know, they're in that well, they're not even in the honeymoon phase yet, but they're, you know, they're not fighting, but they're also young and have no clue what they're doing with money.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it it really kind of depends on the couples that come to me, what questions that they have, and how I have to have to react to that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it it the money spectrum and the coaching spectrum is wide.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm not surprised that uh, you know, you haven't talked about it before because it's like, how do I take this giant topic and narrow it down to one thing that I that I know is gonna help people?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let me first start with with maybe maybe this is a good place to start.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the most common areas where you see couples, and I'll just say people in general, but I know you work primarily with couples.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where is it that people go off the rails when it comes to money?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: What are the really big the biggest problems that people tend to get into?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's a phenomenal question.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to think of that about that for just a minute.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think really it comes down to um they talk in circles.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the biggest thing I see when it comes to couples and money, is that often the couple wants the same thing.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like they want to buy a house or they want to get out of debt or they want to save for retirement.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's those big things.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem is that it's tough to uh move forward with uh with a plan when you don't know how much that thing costs.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, we want to retire, but how much should we be saving for retirement?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what does retirement look like?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do we want to retire in three years or 30 years?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do we want to try to do that with real estate investing or just, you know, a 401k?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where that coaching comes in is to say, like, okay, well, let's stop these these circular arguments by just picking and choosing.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's what are 10 goals that you as a couple have with money?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so you everyone gets all their goals on the sheet of paper on the priority list.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: But now let's sit down and say, what's number one?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's just focus on number one, how much does that cost?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: How when do we want to get out of debt?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: How fast do we want to get out of debt?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then once we have that common goal, that's the big thing.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is once you have that common goal, then you're a team.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: You have a common enemy to fight against.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where couples, a lot of times, when they're not seeing eye to eye, is that they have competing priorities, competing goals.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: But once they find that one thing that they are both like, all right, this is this is what we both want, it gets a lot easier.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give us some examples of different kinds of competing goals that couples might have?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one of my favorite examples was a couple that uh had were newlyweds, uh, and the they both wanted a house.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: They were both tired of renting, um, but they hadn't saved up a whole lot for a down payment.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: But the wife wanted to get a master's degree, and the husband had a hobby of racing go-karts.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so karting is what it's called.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, and and you chuckle, and I bet a lot of people listening chuckle because you might think that, you know, gosh, that's a silly hobby.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: But don't we all have a silly hobby?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you watch my YouTube videos, you see a bunch of Star Wars stuff on my wall.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, um, but the thing is, is that all three of those things cost a lot of money.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we, you know, the working with them, basically what I did was say, okay, you know, I don't judge your goals.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't judge what you want or when you want it or how you want it.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to know what it is so I can help you start to calculate.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they they had done enough shopping with the house.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of knew what they wanted, how much they could afford, uh, and what that down payment was going to be.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that was good to go.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the wife had no clue how much her master's degree cost.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the husband never really sat down and figured out how much he spends on like a monthly average basis for his hobby.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so once they started to dig into it, the wife found out oh, uh, her company would actually reimburse her or give her a grant.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I forget which one it was, but essentially pay for her master's degree.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So her, it was eventually going to be free.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So there's that price.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the husband sat down and figured out how much he was spending.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then we sat down to see, okay, how much does it cost both of you to be a family every month throughout the year?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And once they started to see the numbers, they realized, okay, we can't do all of these.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the husband willingly gave up his hobby of racing go-karts because he wanted a house way more than that hobby.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And once he saw the numbers to say that, no, this can't work, like either we're gonna have to double our income or uh or give something up, he was like, I'd rather just give it up and just keep the job I have uh and and move forward.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where once you get down into the nitty-gritty, you start to you can negotiate.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because otherwise you're just talking talking in uh hypotheticals and what ifs.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so once we get those numbers and start start getting that those uh wheels going, then that's where a couple can start to come together.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that uh I I even hate to ask this question because it's gonna sound like I'm I'm being sexist or not, not even sexist, but I'm trying to like genderize things or something.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: But as a as a general rule, do you find that men tend to act a certain way when it comes to the money topic and women tend to act a certain way?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it does it really depend much more on personality and communication styles and and everything?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess what I'm really asking is are there any generalizations that that we can make about hey guys, maybe you should do this, or hey ladies, maybe you should consider this?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that totally off the table because people are so vastly different?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's gonna be yes and no.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um I would say definitely that um when it comes to my email list and people asking me for help, it's like 99% women.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: There are very few men that reach out and ask for help.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe they're watching, but they're not emailing, they're not commenting, they're not sharing my stuff.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm I'm sure they're watching.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know about it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the women are signing up for the email list and things of that nature.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's one thing I have found just out of experience.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but when it comes to a couple, as far as like how you think about money, it it does gender doesn't matter.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've had couples where uh the guy is really detail oriented and he loves budgeting, and the wife is more of like a spender uh and she's a little bit more loose with her money.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had the exact opposite.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I had another couple where uh the wife was getting a PhD.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, she was very detail oriented.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted to have a plan, she wanted to have a large emergency fund, and the husband was more creative type.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he's more of a designer.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's just like, yeah, you know, I want equipment for my music and for my stuff.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like if our bank account gets down to a thousand dollars, it didn't cause him any stress.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, the personality types uh don't really follow gender per se in that way.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, but yeah, as far as like asking for help, it yeah, it's kind of the cliche of men asking for directions and stuff.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: That in my experience so far, that's been true.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I'm I'm still gonna talk to everybody and help anyone that comes and asks me for help.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is so fascinating because I think that is true.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think about myself, of course, I'm a man, and I'm always like, I'll figure it out.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll watch a YouTube video, you know.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like right now, in the in my truck, I've got a starter I've got to replace in my truck.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, uh, I'll watch a YouTube video and figure it out.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then when once I watch the YouTube video, I'm like, you know, this is actually kind of complicated.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I can figure this out.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I've already told my wife I'm gonna do it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So now to take it somewhere and have it done is like swallowing my pride.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe we men need to need to lay down our pride a little bit when it comes to money and other issues where we actually do need help.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly I am no expert when it comes to to gender roles in that, but you know, I've seen the same thing in the same-sex couples that I've coached as well, where it's uh it's not necessarily a gender part, but you still see that um separation of like someone who's more detail oriented and someone who's a little bit more they they just don't like details.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're a big picture person.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And even for my wife and I, like I'm the money nerd, but I definitely probably spend a little bit more freely than my wife does.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm more of an a-type personality.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I like I want the best thing, but I'm willing to save up for it.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm responsible, but I spend a lot of money.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, and so fortunately I found that balance for myself and and us as a couple have found that balance.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so that's the funny thing is I'm yes, I'm the money nerd and I love talking about this stuff and I love helping people with this stuff, but I like, you know, I just like if I walk into a swap Starbucks, I'm not looking at prices.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just order what I want and I leave.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, exactly.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So depending, depending on what it is, uh, you know, Ramith Seti, he wrote the book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And one concept uh he added to the second version of his book is an idea called Money Dials, where he talks about how he will spend gobs of money on uh coaching, uh on convenience, on things that save him time.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So he'll, you know, hiring coaches um and having people shop for him, but he will his laptop, like he's not a tech dude.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: He will let his laptop die in front of him before he buys another laptop.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So so I think you know, when even when we think about saving versus spending, there's a bit of a spectrum.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I like what he says about money dials, is it kind of depends on like are you are you turning up your security and safety dial versus convenience and and things like that?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um it's still complicated.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: We want money to be simple, but it's just it's not.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's such an emotional issue, isn't it?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh, you know, anytime I talk with couples, I I see every money decision as three things.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: You've got money, you've got time, and you've got emotion.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: You've got energy and and and stress.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so depending on the balance of how your life will change with a decision, it's it's important to think about like, well, I'm gonna make more money and I might save more time, but is this gonna make me happier?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so, depending on what decisions you have, sometimes the happier decision, even if it's gonna not make you as much money, might be the better decision.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I so you're getting me into the nerd territory because there's this thing called behavioral economics, which talks about how we make such irrational choices compared to logically what we should do.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're all more uh Captain Kirks than we are Spox when it comes to money.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Emotions will be part of that equation.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So as a coach, I'm looking for that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for those emotions to see, well, what's your best decision, not just economically, but for you as a person or you as a couple, you as a family.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so interesting that again, I'm totally stereotyping here, which maybe I shouldn't do, but just based on my own experience, you know, a lot of men uh talk about women as as being, oh, they're emotional spinners, or they're they get so emotional.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: But in my experience, men are not any less emotional.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: We just tend to do bigger things with our emotions.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I mean, uh every and this this is without fail.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime that I see I'm sort of picking on guys here.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I can do that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's my podcast.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: But every single time that I see a a sports car, you know, whether it's like some kind of hot sports car or it's uh um it's a convertible going down the highway, they're going a little bit too fast.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Every single time I look over and it's a guy between the ages of like 45 and 60, 100% of the time, and I every time that I see that I go, that's somebody who probably made an emotional decision buying that car.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because really, the the choice of of any kind of car or buying an expensive set of golf clubs or this crazy expensive computer, most of the time that's not based on rationality and logic, it's based on emotion, and we decide that we want it, and it's not necessarily always a great purchase.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying buying a sports car is a bad thing.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what I'm saying.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: But we it's not like we men make these totally rational decisions all the time.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, based purely on logic and clear thinking and and all that.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's uh, you know, there are plenty of men who love uh jewelry, and so it, you know, our out, you know, uh or it could be a tech person, you know, you have the latest phone every time that it comes out, or the next Apple Watch or iPad that just got released.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I mean, um yes, emotions are always a part of it.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you know, like rule number one when it comes to sales is that you you need to sell on emotion, you need to talk about how you can help someone avoid the hell that they are trying to avoid and try to get them to the heaven that they want to get to.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it so yeah, it's uh humans, that's kind of uh if you want to call it a flaw, that's that's how we are.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and emotions are absolutely a part of that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So while yes, I'm a money nerd and I can do all the math and crunch all the numbers, I know that's only like half the battle.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: The other half is to say, well, what what's gonna help you emotionally get over whatever whatever you need to get over, or what um what button is that gonna push?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some couples, when they're trying to listen to each other and talk about money, is they're completely ignoring the emotions and to say, like, you know, are you, you know, is your spar spouse or your partner acting in a certain way because they're scared of something, but they haven't told you, or that you're not really realizing what maybe they're scared of, or they're really excited about something and you haven't acknowledged that they're really excited about it.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, perfect example uh is my wife, and she got this cricket machine.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: It it's a little machine that cuts things out of other material.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: My sister-in-law has one of those.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they've they're they're starting to become really popular.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And she just came to me one day, she's like, I really want this thing.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever she comes to me for anything, I just say yes, and you know, the yes, and how much does that cost?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I acknowledge that yes, I believe her that she wants this.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I believe that it's something that uh she wants in her life.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just asking how much it's gonna cost.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we can turn around to our budget and say, okay, how are we gonna go afford it?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in this particular case, it was Christmas time, and we had spent a lot less money on presents that for other people that we had planned.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we had some extra money in our uh Christmas fund.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, yeah, just go ahead and raid that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Why why not?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so she bought herself an early Christmas present uh with that cricket machine.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, there's another woman I was talking to two weeks ago, uh, and sh and I just sent her an email today.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm hoping to hear the end of this story.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: But she had she couldn't get her husband to sit down to talk with her about money.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, one thing he does is he likes to play the lottery.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and I think all of us listening probably would say, well, that's not a great plan when it comes to saving for retirement.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree with that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I asked her, what are your financial priorities?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: What are your financial goals?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, number one, number two, number three.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What's his number one financial priority?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I don't know.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, well, there you go.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, maybe he's playing the lottery because he's scared that he'll never retire.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if we start to dig into that emotion, that emotional nugget, then we can expand outward to see, okay, how are we spending money to cover up that emotion or avoid that emotion, or if it's pleasure, get to that emotion.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Money is just a middleman to some sort of emotion or some sort of action.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I'm looking for.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is a super key insight.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, anytime that I that I go through a uh fast food place, anytime that I go into a convenience store and grab something to eat or drink, many times when I buy something on Amazon, it it's an emotional decision.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's and I'm trying I'm trying to solve some kind of emotional problem with that.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, again, many times guys sort of accuse women of being emotional shoppers and oh, you're going out to buy shoes because you're sad or upset or something.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I find that I'm not any different at all.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm probably worse about it because it's like every day the Amazon guy is coming up delivering something, and it's just a running joke on our family.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what'd you buy today?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Another book, you know.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I bought another book.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I mean, it could be books, it could be video games, it could be shoes, it could be dresses, it could be cars, it could be uh those little pop figurines.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, it's uh uh Funko Pop.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I was going for.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Funko pop.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten those.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: That like me neither so bizarre.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's the appeal of those?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but I haven't started.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like collecting Pokemon or just beanie babies.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just one of those things where I know myself well enough.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love to collect things.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody has their thing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's best I just don't start.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the key.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned enough about.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Myself, like just don't start and you won't run into a problem.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, yeah, emotions are definitely gonna be part of it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, but you know, emotions are a great thing.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what makes for great stories, that's what makes for great books.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, even when it comes to money, I make sure not to ignore it or avoid it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I look to say, okay, you know, this is who you are, this is how you're feeling.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: How can we take that and harness that and find maybe something you want more than that bad habit?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's, you know, the the worst thing you want to do is like quit smoking and then just start eating because you're just using a new habit to cover up the emotion that was already there.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to, yeah, sometimes you got to dig a little bit deeper to really solve the problem.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when it comes to couples and talking to them, those are the questions I'm asking, and that's that's what I'm digging.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it works out pretty well.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what about people who uh so this this is a podcast about smart business writing?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people listening to this have a writing business of some kind or they would like to start a business that uh with their writing in some way.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to do ghostwriting or freelance writing or sell their own books.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: But to do that, you have to make an investment in your business, usually, whether that is having your your writing edited, maybe you're outsourcing some freelance help, uh, maybe you're paying for cover design, what maybe you're setting up an LLC, whatever that looks like.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any thoughts on when a when a person in a in a relationship is setting up a business and they want to spend money on that business, what are some maybe things that they should be thinking about?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or are there some limits as to how much you should be spending if you're trying to get a side hustle or a side business started?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen that, those kind of situations before?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a really good question.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, so a book I would suggest reading is Profit First by Mike McAllowitz, because that book really hammers home the idea that, okay, if you're gonna have a business and you're gonna bring in revenue, it needs to not only cover your costs to do business, but also make sure there's some profit baked into that price, as well as paying yourself a salary.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because if some point in the future you get really good at it and you need to start paying other people uh for your services, um, or you want to own the business, but then have someone else completely run it, then you have that salary baked into your price.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's one book.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: But then, second is to say that, you know, I don't suggest going into debt to start the business, especially if it's a side hustle, is to say, well, how can I, if I want to say yes to this business, is there something in my life I can say no to to start it?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it because so if you're constantly saying no to all this other stuff to say yes to this new business, to the side hustle, uh, you know, and that's coming out of your personal funds, then if it starts to ramp up and you you need to get going faster, like, okay, well, maybe take out a loan at 6% so you can make uh, you know, you can double your money.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: You could you could use some leverage.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: But for like me and my wife, we uh, you know, we don't completely hate debt, but we definitely love to avoid it as much as possible.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So my yeah, so my coaching business, it's all been bootstrapped.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've never taken out a loan, I don't have a business credit card, although I probably should just for the future.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, so if if my business is running out of money, I have to go to my wife and say, hey, you know, adulting with money, Dan Heinz coaching needs uh a cash injection.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, can we put it into our personal budget?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so that because I have to ask and because there's that emotional conversation that I'm about to have, it pushes me a little bit harder to work harder uh, you know, in my business.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the same with my wife.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: She's taken that cricket machine and has made a side hustle out of it.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and she hasn't had to, you know, she her, you know, maybe had to take out a little bit of money to buy the machine and buy the first few materials, but she's been selling her little products and and services uh at such a price that, you know, the business has been profitable by itself for, I don't know, six or seven months.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when it comes to money and starting a side hustle and doing this thing, is to think about how much you're going to charge to actually cover all those costs and to make it worth your time.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: But then number two, where's that first set of money going to come from?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna come from yourself, your birth, your personal finances, or are you gonna take out a loan?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, hopefully you don't have to take out a loan, but uh, but that's uh, you know, those are the kind of the two major conversations I would have with a couple or someone looking to start a business.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's good advice.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you see me looking over, it's because I'm taking a copious amount of notes.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I really am because I just wish I would have known this stuff a few years ago.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, many times whenever we start a business, we don't have any clue what we're doing.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I I certainly didn't.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And many days I still feel that way.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't really know what I'm doing.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing the best I can and I'm figuring things out as I go along.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I have great respect for anybody who launches a business of any kind and makes it work on some level because there's so many things to figure out.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I know, well, our friend uh Brandy Garr, um, she just came out with a podcast episode uh talking about her six-figure businesses that she's built.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And one phrase that I loved from it was like, I've been scared every time.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: She talks about how every business she started, every step that she's taken, she's been scared.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's never felt comfortable.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the the key there, and what you just mentioned right now, you know, even when it comes to the financial part, is that you know, growth lies outside our comfort zone.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to get outside that comfort zone to find the new opportunity, to find and to grow knowledge.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even just like riding a bike, you know, it's been a long time since any of us have like started, uh, or maybe you never started, but you know, there's some fear to that, and just trying to get on the bike and pedal uh and and things like that.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, you know, yeah, it when it comes to starting a business, the same is true.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like starting a new app, trying to figure out some basic accounting software.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna take there's gonna be a learning curve, but you know, there's plenty of uh podcasts and YouTube videos and whatnot to help out with that too.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, speaking of YouTube videos, um, before we start to wrap up here in a few minutes, I do want to ask about your YouTube channel.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh tell us what that is, where we can find it, and also a little behind-the-scenes stuff of what is actually involved in creating one of these amazing videos.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sure.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find me.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you can go to YouTube and it's Adulting with Money.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's the name of the channel.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you uh look for Dan Hines on YouTube, I'm the first thing that comes up there as well.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, I'm the all the videos I'm trying to help couples unite, not fight over their money.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm talking about things from like apps that helps uh couples uh all the way to like me and my wife having a conversation, like what she really thinks of our budgeting process.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was a good video.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, popular, I should say.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I watched that one.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: That was good.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so I'm trying to, you know, I kind of cover a a wide gamut.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have a video coming out tomorrow about saving for retirement.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um those are the videos I I make.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, as far as time goes, it's you know, my video that's six minutes long tomorrow is about a 10-hour project, which I mean, and if you've yeah, if you've never created videos to bore before, you know, you're thinking, wow, that sounds crazy.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were to watch it, you're gonna see that, you know, I've put a lot of time into the my office, my home office, my background, my lighting, my camera, my sound, uh, the music that I use, um, the cuts that I make, the edits that I do, the graphics that I use, um, if you look at the thumbnail and the text on the thumbnail and the title and the description and the tags, is that it's a you know, to to put together quality work takes time.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, a lot of that 10 hours is just making revisions.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the nugget of the idea is pretty easy, but how do I spin it into a compelling story to actually get you to watch all six minutes?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot harder than you think it is, you know, and the same goes for an entire book or even just a blog article.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it takes time to create quality?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, those so there's a lot that goes into it, but you know, the best videos that I make and will continue to make are questions that I get from uh my fans, my audience.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is you know, what's on your mind?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: What are you thinking about?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's you know, if I'm ask answering your questions that you're asking, then I'm creating content that you want.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, if uh if you watch a couple of videos and you have a question, please leave a comment.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am not so busy that I can't read the comments.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so be sure to ask questions if you have something, and then that'll help me make even better videos in the future.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of that's behind the scenes.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that answered all your questions.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that is such a good point about the best content comes from questions.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in fact, I just put out a podcast episode, uh, I think it was last week, on how to called how to teach anything that came from a conversation that you and I had on Facebook Messenger.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just put out a podcast.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just doing a series right now on blogging on my podcast that came from a person in our Total Life Freedom community, which I've talked about on this this uh podcast before.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um Courtney Wisely uh invited me to put together some training for her community, which serves cleaning business owners.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I put together basically a short ebook on how to blog and some different stuff about it.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, hey, this might make a good podcast series.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that is such a critical thing, I think, is giving people the opportunity to ask you questions and then they ask questions that make you think, and then you're like, oh, I never thought about that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that would make good content.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's such a critical thing.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh, you know, and even just those emotional questions of like, how do I get my husband or spouse or or or wife to to sit down and talk about money?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why are they so upset?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't necessarily have to be like, you know, should I be saving 15% of my income or 20%?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: It can be those emotional questions as well, as you know, why do I keep buying, you know, why why do I keep Amazon shopping?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or why, you know, if if those are things that are you're curious about and want help getting over, I'm open to anything that has to do with money and your relationship.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just ask away and I'm happy to oblige.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the best place that people can uh obviously you've listed your YouTube channel?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Are there other places where they can connect with you?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can uh head to my website and I've actually got a freebie uh that if you want to download, I've got a 20-page uh PDF.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Couples Crushing Debt.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's your six-step formula to faster freedom and unshakable motivation.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then in it I talk about, you know, the fastest ways to get out of debt, like how to how to pay it off faster, um, you know, what apps help make it easier for to track all of that, um, but also to to make a financial plan that works uh so that you actually can can stick to your budget.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh if anyone wants that, just go to adultingwithmoney.com.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's right there on my homepage.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it'll pop up right there, uh, and you can download that.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, my my website or YouTube.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and the the last place would be Instagram.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just adulting with money on Instagram.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hit me up, ask me questions, and I'd love to help.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Dan, thanks so much.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast, and uh, I appreciate you and your friendship and the great content that you're putting out into the world.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I wish I had a DeLorean where I could I could go back in time or somehow bring you back in time and I could listen to all your wisdom about 10 years ago.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: It would have saved me a lot of heartache in my life and my money situation.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm glad that you're here now, and I'm glad I can benefit from your wisdom as so many other people are as well.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks again.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Kent.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Dan.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I loved having him on this episode, and it was a major blast to get to be able to talk to him about this really important topic.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Here are my three biggest takeaways from our conversation.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, make sure you and your spouse are on the same page with money.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this is such a critical lesson, but it's something that we miss a lot of times in our relationships.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you're excited about starting a business or if you're a real go-getter or you're kind of a hard-charging person, it's really easy to just forge ahead and to kind of leave your spouse in the dust a little bit.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk to a lot of people who are writers or business owners or creative types, and they're excited about what they're doing and maybe they're even having some great success with it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I get the sense that their husband or wife is not supportive, and they've kind of like, they're just charging ahead with their thing and and they're not really totally aligned with their spouse on those goals and on those dreams.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can definitely say that I have been so grateful over the years that my wife has always been totally supportive and encouraging in my writing and my business.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, as I say that, that's not totally the case.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was one time where she was not supportive of a business venture that I was doing.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: This has been about five years ago.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: She was not supportive at all.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I went ahead with it anyway, and it ended up being a massive failure, and I lost a couple thousand dollars on that.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I've learned to listen to my wife and to listen to her insight and and her gut feelings about things because she's pretty much always right 100% of the time.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if that's not the case for you though, if you feel like your spouse is not supportive, or if you're not on the same page with your business or your creative goals, I really encourage you to sit down with them and work through the issues that you have about money, or really issues that you have about anything else.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of times the dis the disagreements that we have about certain things like maybe it's your creative work or about a business thing or about something else, a lot of times those are not really the problems.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times though that is a symptom of a deeper issue and maybe a deeper sense of conflict or discontent or or whatever it is.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I just really encourage you to take Dan's advice and just sit down and have conversations with your spouse about money or about other things that that are really important in your marriage.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is great to be creative, it's great to be writing and putting books out there and doing whatever it else is that we do, but hopefully that comes out of a place of harmony and love in our marriage and in our relationships.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully it's not coming from a place where we feel like we have to do it and and our spouse or our significant other is not really supporting what it is that we do.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's you, I encourage you just to have conversations and and I know we live in the real world and sometimes that's not always possible, and and sometimes there is conflict there that's been underlying for a long time, and it's hard to get on the same page.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if at all possible, I just encourage you to pursue harmony and wholeness in your relationships.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Takeaway number two is don't go into debt to start a business.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not a business expert and I don't play one on TV.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there are some times when you have to take out a loan to start a restaurant or to have inventory for your business or other things that are required to start certain kinds of businesses, and I totally get that.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: But all things being equal, if you can avoid going into debt in your business, that is always way better.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, since this is a podcast geared toward writers, I assume that if you're listening to this, you're probably a writer.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, writing is a pretty cheap thing to do.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, basically we just need a computer and maybe a few apps that cost some money.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty much it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's not a lot of other major expenses in this thing that we do called writing and in books.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Unless, of course, you're you're hiring editors and graphic designers and those kinds of things.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, books is not really a a massively expensive thing to do, and writing is not a massively expensive thing to do.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the expenses really come from the investments that we have in ourselves, like if you're in a paid community, if you're in a mastermind, if you go to events or retreats or those kinds of things.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely encourage you to make use of those things.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just got back from a retreat of the Total Life Freedom community, and it was it wasn't like massively crazy expensive, but it wasn't cheap either.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I dropped some cash on this.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to tell you that it was completely worth the money that I invested into it because I had an amazing time with great people who gave me some great feedback.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: They kicked my behind on a couple of things, to be totally honest with you, which I really needed.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they also challenged me to think bigger in my business.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna be hearing about some things uh coming up the next month or two that I'm gonna be uh launching, probably early next year is more likely for one of those things.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is that it's important to invest in yourself.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can avoid going into debt to do that, that's that's really, really good.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's go to takeaway number three, which is simply that growth lies outside your comfort zone.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Man, this is so true, and that is my experience for sure.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Doing this podcast whenever I started it a few years ago, that was outside my comfort zone.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Ghostwriting was outside my comfort zone.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm diving into things very soon, as I mentioned, that those things are definitely outside my comfort zone.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the only way to grow is to stretch.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, what lies outside your comfort zone and are you willing to be stretched if you want to grow?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, those are my three takeaways.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: This was a great conversation, and you know, Dan is again one of those guys where you have a conversation and it just opens up possibilities and it opens up lots of other things.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, Dan, I'm really grateful for you joining me on this episode, and for everybody who's listening, I encourage you to check out Dan's website at adultingwithmoney.com, which by the way is an awesome title.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Also be sure to check out and download his free resource, which is called Couples Crushing Debt, your six-step formula to faster freedom and unshakable motivation.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure and grab that because that'll really help you out.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, make sure to check out Dan's YouTube channel, which is also called Adulting with Money.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's links to all that stuff in the show notes, by the way, as well as Dan's uh social media profiles.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much for listening.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, you have gotten a lot out of this episode as I have.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: As always, you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you in the next episode.