Latest / The You Project / #1994 The Psychology of Enough - Harps and Tiff

Transcript

#1994 The Psychology of Enough - Harps and Tiff · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: I tell you it's ups and tiff. I'm back. Fuck,
0:04
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I couldn't be any more back.
0:06
Speaker 1: I'm in eleven. I'm not even a ten. I'm in eleven.
0:08
Speaker 1: My energy's great. I can string more than four words together.
0:13
Speaker 1: I remember Mum's name now, which is great. There was
0:15
Speaker 1: a week or so where she was just that old,
0:17
Speaker 1: familiar woman that was kind to me. But my memory
0:21
Speaker 1: is back and I'm feeling much better. And all of
0:24
Speaker 1: you have sent me well wishers and all of that.
0:27
Speaker 1: You know, love stuff. You're the best. You're the best.
0:31
Speaker 1: Now before I throw over to the actual boss, Melissa,
0:36
Speaker 1: who's the boss of the actual boy. She's everyone's boss.
0:39
Speaker 1: So there's Melissa, then there's Tip, who's two icee, and
0:43
Speaker 1: then I'm essentially the janitor in the organization. Melissa will
0:48
Speaker 1: yell at me if I don't tell you that I
0:50
Speaker 1: am coming to the Goldie the Gold Coast on October nine,
0:55
Speaker 1: and I'm doing a gig. I'm doing a gig called
0:58
Speaker 1: becoming ungive Upable. I've done that once in Melbs went
1:02
Speaker 1: off like a log in a sock. And in almost
1:06
Speaker 1: two thousand that's right, almost two thousand episodes that Becoming
1:10
Speaker 1: Ungive Upable episode is I think the most listened to ever,
1:15
Speaker 1: And so I've kind of created a slightly newer, more
1:18
Speaker 1: modified not that I've done this workshopping coins and anyway before,
1:21
Speaker 1: but I'm doing that at the RICV Club at the
1:24
Speaker 1: Royal Pines on October nine, which is I'm pretty sure
1:28
Speaker 1: Thursday night tickets right now are super cheap. That's not
1:33
Speaker 1: a sales pitch, it's just they're just fucking super cheap.
1:36
Speaker 1: So if you want to come along, go have look
1:38
Speaker 1: at the website, have a bit of a read. See
1:41
Speaker 1: if that resonates with you. See if it's something that
1:43
Speaker 1: you think might be fun for you and potentially valuable
1:47
Speaker 1: for you to attend live and I'll say hello to
1:52
Speaker 1: you in person. And if I don't have the current
1:56
Speaker 1: lurgie that I have that's almost gone, I'll give you
1:58
Speaker 1: a hug. You may not want a hug, So if
2:01
Speaker 1: you don't want a hug, still come and stay away
2:03
Speaker 1: from me. But if you do want a hug. Allowed
2:06
Speaker 1: us to offer people hugs tip or is that inappropriate
2:08
Speaker 1: these days? Is it too? Oh my god? That's is
2:13
Speaker 1: it coming back around? Is it coming back around?
2:15
Speaker 2: Hind people? Unseen and just give them hugs, but you
2:19
Speaker 2: can definitely offer them.
2:21
Speaker 1: No, you can't attack someone from behind, like the lady
2:23
Speaker 1: that I've had. This happened a few times, but recently,
2:26
Speaker 1: maybe last week at the I won't say the name
2:29
Speaker 1: of the cafe, the Hampton's, and wasn't their fault. I opened.
2:34
Speaker 1: I was walking, she was walking towards the door. I
2:36
Speaker 1: opened the door. I stood way back. I opened the
2:38
Speaker 1: door for her, and she goes, I can open the
2:41
Speaker 1: door myself, thank you, to which I replied okay, And
2:49
Speaker 1: then I walked in and pulled it behind me and
2:52
Speaker 1: left her out there. I'm like, there, you go, do
2:54
Speaker 1: your best, Like basically, I don't know why, Like I'm
2:58
Speaker 1: here's my thought, Well, we're going in the same joint.
3:01
Speaker 1: I'll open the door for you. How fucking terrible of me?
3:05
Speaker 1: What was I thinking? And then looked at me like
3:07
Speaker 1: I just called her the C word or something worse.
3:11
Speaker 1: I don't understand. I mean, but ninety nine out of
3:14
Speaker 1: one hundred people go, thank you so much, pleasure, have
3:17
Speaker 1: a good day. But just it's funny you can do
3:20
Speaker 1: the same thing anyway. That's got nothing to do with
3:24
Speaker 1: my workshop at the Royal Pines RACV Club on October nine.
3:28
Speaker 1: Be there or be somewhere else. Go to the old website,
3:32
Speaker 1: click on education. You can just find out all the
3:35
Speaker 1: ins and outs of what's going to go on that
3:37
Speaker 1: night and possibly book a ticket or fifty. Love to
3:41
Speaker 1: see you there, love, Harps, Hi TeV.
3:45
Speaker 2: I'm a bit jealous that I can't be.
3:47
Speaker 1: There suffering your jock. Suppose suffering hugs, Well, you don't.
3:57
Speaker 1: You get a lot of hugs. You get a lot
3:59
Speaker 1: of hugs. You get constant attention from your dog and cat.
4:02
Speaker 2: That's true.
4:03
Speaker 1: You have your own little bloody cult following. Now, Oh,
4:05
Speaker 1: people go to me all the time. How great, stiff,
4:07
Speaker 1: I'm like, fucking okay, I guess.
4:11
Speaker 2: Atually not following me. They're following the dog and the cats.
4:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're like, well, people are now just talking
4:17
Speaker 1: to me so they can get access to you, which
4:19
Speaker 1: is pretty annoying.
4:22
Speaker 2: It's pretty well in my world, Harps.
4:25
Speaker 1: Okay, I used to be the big deal. Now I'm
4:27
Speaker 1: like the phone, do you want me to carry that
4:29
Speaker 1: for you? Ok? That's gone.
4:32
Speaker 2: I told you yesterday. It was I don't know how
4:36
Speaker 2: many years anniversary, maybe six or seven or eight eight
4:39
Speaker 2: years since I was holding the clipboard with the Craig
4:42
Speaker 2: Harper do the Bloody Work t shirt with my first camp.
4:49
Speaker 1: That's back when I was a big deal and you
4:52
Speaker 1: were a shit kicker. And now I'm holding the clipboard
4:54
Speaker 1: for you at your conferences and just you know, parking
4:57
Speaker 1: the car and just you know taking well, I'm not,
5:01
Speaker 1: but I feel like that, No, you've done well, and
5:05
Speaker 1: I couldn't be fucking happier for you know, really it's great.
5:09
Speaker 1: You know when people like pretend I'm fucking around, of course,
5:13
Speaker 1: but you know when you do well and people you know,
5:15
Speaker 1: it doesn't fucking that doesn't make people or someone happy.
5:18
Speaker 1: And then you bump into them and it's through gritted teeth.
5:22
Speaker 1: They kind of congratulate you on something that's going on,
5:25
Speaker 1: but you're like, oh haha, you don't want to tell
5:27
Speaker 1: me this at all because you don't really want it
5:31
Speaker 1: to be happening. You're a bit angry it's not you,
5:36
Speaker 1: but that's okay, I'll take it. So today we're doing
5:40
Speaker 1: something different. I was a little bit lazy and I
5:43
Speaker 1: said to Chatters. I said chat, I said pet, I
5:46
Speaker 1: said love chat GPT five. That is give me some
5:51
Speaker 1: ideas for a topic to talk about that I haven't
5:54
Speaker 1: spoken about or I didn't write this bit, but that
5:58
Speaker 1: I haven't covered on the upro. What I love is
6:01
Speaker 1: the fact that it knows what I haven't spoken about.
6:03
Speaker 1: That that's both awesome and fucking terrifying. And it came
6:10
Speaker 1: up with a topic or an idea, which is the
6:12
Speaker 1: psychology of enough, and I feel like, yeah, that is
6:18
Speaker 1: a good conversation to have. What is enough? When is enough?
6:21
Speaker 1: How do we know what's enough? So this everyone is
6:24
Speaker 1: an organic conversation. This is not something I've researched and
6:27
Speaker 1: I've got all the answers, and I've got the data,
6:29
Speaker 1: and I've dived in, dived dove. I haven't dived into
6:34
Speaker 1: english or grammar, that's for sure. I haven't dove into,
6:39
Speaker 1: you know, all of the research. So I can't tell you,
6:42
Speaker 1: you know, unequivocally what is and isn't. But this is
6:46
Speaker 1: something that I have thought about, like why do we
6:49
Speaker 1: keep chasing? So we get stuff? Then the stuff we
6:51
Speaker 1: have is not enough, Then we want more stuff, and
6:54
Speaker 1: then we get the more stuff and it's like fuck,
6:56
Speaker 1: that's not it. Or we climb the mountain, we get
6:57
Speaker 1: to the top, of the mountain, we go, Fuck, it's not
6:59
Speaker 1: this mountain, be that mountain over there, or we seem
7:02
Speaker 1: to have this insatiable kind of sometimes appetite or hunger.
7:08
Speaker 1: And I've got a few thoughts on that that I
7:10
Speaker 1: might share through the show. Do you ever think about
7:13
Speaker 1: this idea of how much shit do I actually need?
7:17
Speaker 2: All the time? All the time? Yeah, And it's a
7:21
Speaker 2: funny thing to sit in the middle of and be
7:23
Speaker 2: aware of it and still in it and try and
7:26
Speaker 2: have perspective like I've always compared back, you know, like
7:32
Speaker 2: when things were really grim in COVID, and I was
7:35
Speaker 2: more comfortable then than when accepting that the worst might
7:40
Speaker 2: happen than when the worst didn't happen. Yes, And I
7:43
Speaker 2: just find that really, yeah, annoying and interesting.
7:49
Speaker 1: Do you know what I think was interesting about COVID
7:51
Speaker 1: from the psychology of enough perspective is when you go
7:56
Speaker 1: when all of a sudden, well, you can't go there,
7:57
Speaker 1: you can't go to the gym, you can't go more
7:59
Speaker 1: than five kilometers, you can't go to that cafe, and
8:04
Speaker 1: you can't go to the supermarket today because your day's Wednesday.
8:07
Speaker 1: Do you remember that they gave you could go every
8:11
Speaker 1: second day, or there was a few things. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
8:15
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you just go, oh, okay, okay,
8:19
Speaker 1: like you just adapt. You go, ah, well, now now
8:24
Speaker 1: all those things that used to I used to do that,
8:26
Speaker 1: I used to have to do it. I've got to
8:28
Speaker 1: be at the cafe at this time every morning, and
8:30
Speaker 1: I've got to sit down and I've got to have
8:32
Speaker 1: them where you can't do that. And you go, okay, okay,
8:36
Speaker 1: I won't do it because you can't do it. So
8:38
Speaker 1: you don't get frustrated because it's not a possibility anymore
8:41
Speaker 1: because they've taken that off the table. So then you go,
8:44
Speaker 1: all right, well, what's my new protocol? Then you figure
8:48
Speaker 1: out something else. Then you do that, and the thing
8:50
Speaker 1: that you thought you absolutely needed you can't have, so
8:54
Speaker 1: therefore you just don't fucking need it anymore. Yeah, yeah,
8:59
Speaker 1: all right, So what I you open the batting? Because
9:01
Speaker 1: I know you've got a few questions. Why don't you
9:03
Speaker 1: open the batting? And we'll see where we go this
9:06
Speaker 1: with this little idea. By the way, everybody, this is
9:10
Speaker 1: a collaboration between chat GPT, as I said, and TIF
9:13
Speaker 1: and I. So these questions probably not all of them,
9:16
Speaker 1: but at least half of them are AI generated. So
9:21
Speaker 1: if you're thinking fucked if so genius, she's not. She is.
9:28
Speaker 1: I'm just fucking around with you. Ah, it's a joke.
9:32
Speaker 1: It was a joke.
9:34
Speaker 2: Well, this went straight from the mouth of chat GPT.
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Speaker 2: Young chatters would like to know, grag Anthony Harbor, how
9:40
Speaker 2: do you personally define enough and why is it such
9:45
Speaker 2: a slippery concept for most people?
9:48
Speaker 1: Yep, So I don't want to bore people with that
9:51
Speaker 1: old chestnut of I had this realization when I owned
9:54
Speaker 1: all these businesses, but that is true for me. I
9:58
Speaker 1: got to a point where I just had lots of,
10:02
Speaker 1: you know things, I was doing quite well from a
10:05
Speaker 1: business point of view and a career point of view,
10:08
Speaker 1: and you know, just owning stuff and having stuff, but
10:12
Speaker 1: that didn't really, in fact, it didn't at all correlate
10:15
Speaker 1: with increased happiness for me or joy or calm or contentment.
10:20
Speaker 1: And so that was where I started to do a
10:22
Speaker 1: little bit of a deep dive personally on this, not
10:26
Speaker 1: so much how much stuff do I need or what's enough,
10:29
Speaker 1: but rather what is it that I need specifically? Like clearly,
10:35
Speaker 1: I know I don't need three cars or six motorbikes
10:38
Speaker 1: or whatever. Money in the bank. That's more money than
10:41
Speaker 1: I could spend. I know I don't need that, but
10:44
Speaker 1: what do I need? And so for me? In fact,
10:48
Speaker 1: I was on someone else's podcast yesterday, Kate Saves podcast
10:53
Speaker 1: with a guy called Toby, Toby Skovron, and she asked me, no,
10:59
Speaker 1: she was talking about me. She was just riffing and
11:02
Speaker 1: she said, you know what I like about you, which
11:05
Speaker 1: was nice, and I said, what is that? She said that, like,
11:08
Speaker 1: you're so understated, like I've known you for a long time,
11:11
Speaker 1: and I never see you like you dressed up as
11:14
Speaker 1: a pair of jeans and maybe a shirt right and
11:16
Speaker 1: boots that I think I've seen you in one thousand times.
11:19
Speaker 1: I go, you would be correct, right, And she goes
11:21
Speaker 1: and tell people what kind of car you drive, like
11:24
Speaker 1: most of the time. I go, I drive a six
11:27
Speaker 1: year old Suzuki Swift right, And she's like, and you
11:30
Speaker 1: don't need to I go, No, nobody needs to drive
11:33
Speaker 1: any model. I go, I just like, I'm comfy. And
11:36
Speaker 1: then when I'm not driving that I'm riding a scooter,
11:39
Speaker 1: which is and I mean a sit down scooter like
11:41
Speaker 1: a road scooter, which is probably worth seven hundred dollars
11:46
Speaker 1: and I've had it for about twelve years, and I
11:48
Speaker 1: think I've had it service twice and it's a piece
11:51
Speaker 1: of shit and I couldn't love it more, you know.
11:53
Speaker 1: So I think that for me, I like that I'm
11:58
Speaker 1: not personally high maintenance, that I need lots of stuff,
12:01
Speaker 1: or I need big stuff or expensive stuff or fancy stuff.
12:05
Speaker 1: So yeah, So for me, enough is more about spiritual, emotional, psychological, social,
12:12
Speaker 1: It's not so much about things. It's more about internal
12:15
Speaker 1: than external. And I think why part B of your
12:19
Speaker 1: question why is it such a slippery concept for people?
12:22
Speaker 1: Is that for a lot of people, when we're talking
12:25
Speaker 1: about enough, we're talking about the external things, like I
12:28
Speaker 1: just said, and so enough what enough brand, enough followers,
12:33
Speaker 1: enough money, enough profile, enough respect, enough of a house,
12:40
Speaker 1: enough of a car. And I don't think having lots
12:43
Speaker 1: of that stuff is bad, of course, sorry, Tiff. I
12:52
Speaker 1: just think that when our whole concept of success and
12:56
Speaker 1: failure or enough or not enough is all about everything
12:59
Speaker 1: that people can see, we're probably barking up the wrong
13:03
Speaker 1: tree or we're probably you know, heading down the wrong
13:06
Speaker 1: tunnel in that sense. So I think it's I think
13:09
Speaker 1: enough is more of an internal reflection than an external
13:14
Speaker 1: kind of you know search.
13:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. The second question that chat is asked is will
13:21
Speaker 2: be one I want to explain expand and I reckon
13:23
Speaker 2: it's interesting what psychological or evolutionary forces push humans to
13:29
Speaker 2: constantly seek more?
13:33
Speaker 1: That is, I saw that, and I thought, I hope
13:35
Speaker 1: she doesn't ask me that, because that's quite.
13:37
Speaker 2: A true favorite one. That's my favorite.
13:39
Speaker 1: No, I think it's good. So I think let's start
13:41
Speaker 1: with let's separate psychological and evolutionary. So psychological forces that
13:47
Speaker 1: push us to seek more, well, I don't think it's
13:50
Speaker 1: a single thing. I mean, I also want your thoughts
13:53
Speaker 1: on this, but my thoughts immediately are like, so, we're
13:57
Speaker 1: not talking about need based. We're talking about psychological forces
14:01
Speaker 1: or urges or compulsion. So for me, that would be
14:05
Speaker 1: I don't feel enough, so I need more. I need
14:08
Speaker 1: to be more, I have more or seem more to others.
14:13
Speaker 1: Or perhaps I don't feel safe, so I want more
14:18
Speaker 1: stuff so I feel secure. I don't feel like I
14:21
Speaker 1: have enough money. If the shit hits the fan, I
14:24
Speaker 1: feel I'm going to be massively disadvantaged and at risk.
14:29
Speaker 1: So it might be that I feel, you know, I'm
14:33
Speaker 1: way too vulnerable, so I need to do more and
14:36
Speaker 1: get more so that I'm safe and I'm secure. What
14:41
Speaker 1: else I think, because we are, well, a lot of
14:46
Speaker 1: us are insecure and feel you know, not enough, itis
14:52
Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. We're not enough that we're
14:55
Speaker 1: compelled to try to, you know, whatever it is, look better,
15:00
Speaker 1: function better, and be more attractive, more desirable, to fit
15:04
Speaker 1: into the group, to belong, to make us more desirable
15:10
Speaker 1: and accessible or want it. I guess by other person. Fuck, sorry,
15:15
Speaker 1: my voice? Can you hear my voice? Sorry, everybody, I've
15:20
Speaker 1: got all of a sudden after telling you how fucking
15:22
Speaker 1: great I am, my voice is collapsing. But I feel good,
15:26
Speaker 1: that's the main thing. Yeah. And then I guess from
15:29
Speaker 1: an evolutionary perspective, Like evolutionary, it's really evolutionarily it's been
15:36
Speaker 1: all about survival. So I think we I think, really
15:42
Speaker 1: that's about security, self preservation. You know, you think about
15:47
Speaker 1: any time other than the last two hundred, you know,
15:50
Speaker 1: one hundred hundred and fifty years, where we've had a
15:55
Speaker 1: very advanced you know, even one hundred years ago, it
15:57
Speaker 1: was extremely advanced compared to most of humanity three hundred
16:01
Speaker 1: thousand years of modern humans roaming the globe, and even
16:07
Speaker 1: one hundred years ago there were airplanes, there were telephones,
16:10
Speaker 1: there were cars. That was like crazy, So I think,
16:13
Speaker 1: but that aside in terms of the evolution of the
16:17
Speaker 1: species over hundreds of thousands of years, I think the
16:22
Speaker 1: force to seek more was about not just security and safety,
16:29
Speaker 1: but also power and control, which kind of equals security
16:34
Speaker 1: and safety. So you think about on an individual level,
16:38
Speaker 1: why some people more assertive and bossy in this and that.
16:42
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just because that's how they are, but often
16:45
Speaker 1: it's because that gives people, or that ultimately can give
16:49
Speaker 1: people more leverage, more social leverage, maybe more respect, maybe
16:53
Speaker 1: more fear, but definitely more power and control. And then
16:57
Speaker 1: you think about that on a global level with wars
16:59
Speaker 1: and country is dominating countries or trying to invade countries,
17:03
Speaker 1: or you know, religious wars and cultural war wars and
17:07
Speaker 1: geographic wars. This is people trying to force themselves on
17:12
Speaker 1: others or dominate others or control others for their own
17:16
Speaker 1: personal gain.
17:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well you agree. Yeah, first thing you said,
17:22
Speaker 2: because I think when I think about myself and enough,
17:26
Speaker 2: I think it wraps a lot around that safety and
17:28
Speaker 2: security piece, Like I think that our attachment to in
17:32
Speaker 2: two ways. Our attachment to things comes from the meaning,
17:37
Speaker 2: this unconscious meaning that we're placed on it, and then
17:41
Speaker 2: we're driven a lot by I guess, just the dopamine
17:45
Speaker 2: rewards of when we do make achievements. So we've just
17:48
Speaker 2: we've got that, you know, that reward system reinforcing behaviors.
17:54
Speaker 1: I think that ties it, and that ties in with
17:58
Speaker 1: the next question that you may or made may not ask,
18:01
Speaker 1: but it talks about hedonic adaptation, you know, So that's
18:04
Speaker 1: all that stuff. So why don't you ask that? Then
18:07
Speaker 1: we'll just keep rapping on about this because it all
18:10
Speaker 1: ties in.
18:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So how does hedonic adaptation play into our
18:14
Speaker 2: perpetual dissatisfaction with achievements and possessions?
18:19
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, hedonic adaptation is essentially when we do that
18:22
Speaker 1: thing that gives us pleasure, it gives us that dopamine hit,
18:26
Speaker 1: It makes us feel great mentally, physically, emotionally, we feel great.
18:31
Speaker 1: And then we go back and we hit the button
18:33
Speaker 1: again and we still feel great, but we don't feel
18:35
Speaker 1: ten out of ten. Now we feel eight or nine.
18:37
Speaker 1: And eventually the thing that made us feel that rush,
18:42
Speaker 1: that pleasure, that joy, that could be centraal, could be sexual,
18:46
Speaker 1: could just be emotional. It can be physical and or
18:49
Speaker 1: mental and emotional. That thing eventually isn't there anymore. So
18:55
Speaker 1: now we've adapted. So now instead of one whatever it was,
18:58
Speaker 1: now we need two whatever it is to give us
19:02
Speaker 1: the same response. Eventually we need ten. And this is
19:06
Speaker 1: I hesitate to say this, but I'm going to say this.
19:09
Speaker 1: So I remember talking to a friend of mine. Do
19:13
Speaker 1: I say this, I'm going to say it, and then
19:17
Speaker 1: you tell me at the end if we should keep
19:18
Speaker 1: it in or cut it out. But I had a
19:21
Speaker 1: friend who ended up being a sex addict, and he like,
19:28
Speaker 1: he did all the normal things that we you know,
19:30
Speaker 1: I don't know when he bought first whatever, but he
19:32
Speaker 1: did whatever. And then he had a girlfriend and eventually
19:37
Speaker 1: and he was always you know, rooting, I mean every day, like,
19:41
Speaker 1: and that was like his main thing. He was just
19:45
Speaker 1: loved it, couldn't get enough of it. Then eventually, and
19:48
Speaker 1: I won't describe, but things had to escalate for him
19:51
Speaker 1: to get the same response right, the same feeling. So
19:55
Speaker 1: it needed to be you know, I won't go into
19:57
Speaker 1: different methods and positions, situations and the equipment. Right then
20:06
Speaker 1: Eventually he ended up having sex with men while telling
20:15
Speaker 1: me he wasn't gay, which this is not any judgment,
20:20
Speaker 1: This is just what happened because he got to the
20:22
Speaker 1: point and it was probably a ten year journey where
20:26
Speaker 1: being with a female just he couldn't get that that
20:30
Speaker 1: feeling like that that hedonistic, that rush, that whatever it
20:34
Speaker 1: is that you know that in inverted commas, normal people
20:38
Speaker 1: get with their partner or with their lover or whatever.
20:41
Speaker 1: And then he goes, I know, but it's just yeah,
20:47
Speaker 1: he said to me. I remember having this conversation with
20:49
Speaker 1: him because I was I was supported, but I was shocked.
20:54
Speaker 1: And then we ended up having anyway, we had a
20:57
Speaker 1: really big chat, and then we ended up having a
20:59
Speaker 1: few chats, and then he went and got treatment because
21:02
Speaker 1: he realized that it's like this is this is not
21:05
Speaker 1: a normal evolution, Like there's something going on. No judgment,
21:09
Speaker 1: just love. And by the way, if you gaye straight, whatever,
21:12
Speaker 1: I'm cool, doesn't matter. It's not about It's like while
21:16
Speaker 1: telling me, I'm not actually gay and I'm not actually
21:20
Speaker 1: attracted to men, but I can't get turned on unless
21:24
Speaker 1: there's this it's like either dangerous or weird or yeah,
21:28
Speaker 1: so I remember watching that over time and thinking thinking,
21:33
Speaker 1: how is this going to end? Because he used to
21:36
Speaker 1: tell me what he did. I'm like, bro, that's not
21:39
Speaker 1: that's not just normal sex drive. That's something and so yeah,
21:44
Speaker 1: and so I don't have the answer to that, but
21:48
Speaker 1: it does that capacity that we have, especially when we
21:52
Speaker 1: keep going back regularly, like hourly or twice a day
21:55
Speaker 1: or every day and press that button again. You know,
22:01
Speaker 1: I think, like with so many people, it's like how
22:05
Speaker 1: eventually you take three panad doll when you took one
22:09
Speaker 1: and it took away the pain, and then three doesn't
22:11
Speaker 1: take away the pain. Now you need five and then
22:14
Speaker 1: and all of these things that create these physiological responses
22:17
Speaker 1: in our body which are something pleasurable or at least
22:20
Speaker 1: something that takes away pain. Over time, very often, unless
22:26
Speaker 1: the dose in inverted commas goes up, the pleasure goes away,
22:31
Speaker 1: then they've got to just keep adapting to that.
22:35
Speaker 2: It's almost like you become not even driven by pleasure anymore,
22:38
Speaker 2: but just by the maintaining the baseline, because if you
22:42
Speaker 2: take it away, then you dip below baseline.
22:45
Speaker 1: That's really interesting, that's really interesting, and that is a
22:48
Speaker 1: very smart comment that is true, Like that one.
22:51
Speaker 2: Wasn't from chats everyone that was me. That was all me.
22:53
Speaker 1: That was real tip. And she's very smart. She knows
22:57
Speaker 1: I think that we've fuck around. Yeah, I think that's true.
23:03
Speaker 1: It's like I've got friends who functional alcoholics. I think
23:08
Speaker 1: some people call it, and they're like, yeah, I have
23:10
Speaker 1: to drink booze within about half an hour of getting
23:13
Speaker 1: up or I can't do the day. And they don't
23:16
Speaker 1: have thirty beers, but they'll have whatever it is, a
23:18
Speaker 1: glass or two of something and that kind of settles
23:21
Speaker 1: them down their nervous systems. Okay, they start to think
23:24
Speaker 1: more clearly. And for them, Booze's breakfast, and booze is
23:29
Speaker 1: like the stabilizer. Oh yeah, people don't you know, he's
23:35
Speaker 1: a funny thing. I'll shut up after this. People don't
23:37
Speaker 1: realize how fucking bad alcohol is. And I know that
23:41
Speaker 1: seems like condumb things. The same people go, oh yeah,
23:43
Speaker 1: correlates with you know, like car crashes and this disease
23:47
Speaker 1: and that. Yeah, it's there's new research coming out now.
23:51
Speaker 1: In fact, Schuberman Andrew Human has been banging on about it.
23:55
Speaker 1: That really like the upper limit, he says, not me,
23:58
Speaker 1: but Andrew Huberman do a deep dive if you want
24:00
Speaker 1: two glasses a week upper limit upper Yeah, so all that. Yeah,
24:07
Speaker 1: so anyway, that's but it is an interesting question, is
24:11
Speaker 1: like we we adapt and then eventually we need more
24:13
Speaker 1: and more and more to get the same response, and
24:16
Speaker 1: then eventually we may be an addict in the middle
24:19
Speaker 1: of a fucking cycle that seems you know, impossible to
24:23
Speaker 1: get out of.
24:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, social media. So the next question Chatter is asked,
24:29
Speaker 2: is in what ways do social media and comparison culture
24:32
Speaker 2: distort our sense of sufficiency.
24:36
Speaker 1: That's a good question, isn't it. We should have chatters
24:39
Speaker 1: as the third kind of if only chatters. I wonder
24:42
Speaker 1: if we could teach chatters to chat with us. Says yeah, yeah, yeah,
24:46
Speaker 1: So I think social media is a big driver of
24:51
Speaker 1: comparison culture. And you know, we we compare ourselves with
24:57
Speaker 1: ourselves with people who are not like us. We compare
25:02
Speaker 1: ourselves with you know, twenty three year olds with phenomenal
25:07
Speaker 1: fucking genetics and who are on every supplement known to man,
25:12
Speaker 1: and who have got a professional you know whatever, lighting team,
25:16
Speaker 1: photography team, and then they put out these perfect images
25:20
Speaker 1: and perfect videos, not that they shouldn't, but like we
25:24
Speaker 1: just you know. I think the only person you should
25:26
Speaker 1: compare yourself to is you know, you from yesterday. That's it, you,
25:31
Speaker 1: you from last week, you from last month. But it does,
25:35
Speaker 1: it does look I'm not a social media hater. I'm
25:39
Speaker 1: a social media user. I think the problem is not
25:42
Speaker 1: social media, but the relationship that we have with social
25:46
Speaker 1: media individually and also the ways in which social media. Remember,
25:52
Speaker 1: social media is just a platform or a tool that
25:55
Speaker 1: teams people, organizations, individuals can use and then nobody has
26:01
Speaker 1: to use any of it. Right, You don't need to
26:03
Speaker 1: have an IG account or a Facebook account or a
26:06
Speaker 1: whatever else account. You don't need to. If you hate it,
26:09
Speaker 1: don't use it. But the truth is, if you use
26:12
Speaker 1: it the right way, like we use it the right way,
26:15
Speaker 1: I think you it can be a positive, not a
26:19
Speaker 1: negative in your life. But when you are constantly scrolling, scrolling, scrolling,
26:23
Speaker 1: looking at this person who's in your age group or
26:26
Speaker 1: your field or you know, and you want to be
26:29
Speaker 1: a version of that, well, when you want to be
26:30
Speaker 1: a version of that, then you're not being a version
26:32
Speaker 1: of you, you know. And so this is an identity piece.
26:36
Speaker 1: Then we wrap our identity around someone or our intended
26:40
Speaker 1: or hoped identity around somebody who isn't us, And that's
26:45
Speaker 1: when you know. You wake up and you're forty and
26:48
Speaker 1: you're like, fuck and I don't even know who I am.
26:50
Speaker 1: That's because you've been trying to be someone else forever.
26:53
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's getting increasingly hard, though, to
26:57
Speaker 2: use social media and have agency o when the algorithms
27:01
Speaker 2: feed you what the algorithms want to feed you. And
27:06
Speaker 2: second to that, if you're a creator, like a lot
27:08
Speaker 2: of creators, people are just out there like puppets on strings.
27:12
Speaker 2: I'm more and more seeing people that wouldn't think dancing,
27:18
Speaker 2: like sixteen year olds on TikTok or just following trends
27:22
Speaker 2: to get likes and things. And it's an odd thing
27:26
Speaker 2: to see play out.
27:29
Speaker 1: That is interesting because part of me, and this is
27:32
Speaker 1: not always a good part of me, but part of
27:34
Speaker 1: me is like, oh, well, don't fucking use it, don't dance,
27:36
Speaker 1: don't do dumb shit. Right, But also I'm like you,
27:40
Speaker 1: we're including me. We're all vulnerable and gullible, and we
27:44
Speaker 1: all watch shit that we probably shouldn't watch. And we
27:48
Speaker 1: know you can think you've got the strongest mind, you're
27:51
Speaker 1: the most resilient. You're the most aware, self aware, situationally aware.
27:55
Speaker 1: If you're watching dumb shit on social media, it's influencing you.
28:00
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter who you can be Eronstein, it's still
28:03
Speaker 1: having an influence, right or missus Einstein. You know, they
28:07
Speaker 1: say that missus Einstein was actually smarter than him. But
28:09
Speaker 1: that's for another day, course of course. But yeah, that's that.
28:15
Speaker 1: And I realized that too. I can go down a
28:18
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. I don't do it often, but I still
28:21
Speaker 1: do it, and I'm like, fuck, I just wasted an hour,
28:24
Speaker 1: and I did. I wasted an hour, you know, because
28:27
Speaker 1: it is well. Also, I think that social media has
28:31
Speaker 1: been a lot of it, and marketing and advertising too,
28:34
Speaker 1: has been developed with neuroscientists. You know, a lot of
28:37
Speaker 1: marketing agencies now have neuroscientists and psychologists and neuropsychologists in
28:43
Speaker 1: their marketing and business development teams because they understand how
28:49
Speaker 1: the brain works, and so they actually bring people in
28:53
Speaker 1: to develop products and ideas that are targeted at hijacking
28:59
Speaker 1: the brain of the person who's seeing the ad or
29:02
Speaker 1: listening to the spiel. Yeah, that's pretty fucking Firstly, it's
29:07
Speaker 1: not illegal. I wouldn't call it particularly ethical or moral.
29:13
Speaker 1: But also I go, yep, fair game. I mean, your
29:16
Speaker 1: job is literally a cellshit. Your job is not to
29:19
Speaker 1: make the world a better place, although we would love that.
29:22
Speaker 1: And if you think that, you know, most corporate organizations
29:27
Speaker 1: are guided by values and morals. You don't know anything
29:31
Speaker 1: about business because they're not. There's a few unicorns in
29:36
Speaker 1: the space, but generally they care about the bottom line.
29:40
Speaker 2: Actually deleted Facebook off of my phone last week, so
29:46
Speaker 2: I've still got an instead at Facebook because of the
29:49
Speaker 2: day that I woke up and watched two brutal live
29:52
Speaker 2: murders like it was entertainment, and then it was just
29:56
Speaker 2: that's all I was seeing, and then everybody's opinion and
30:00
Speaker 2: I went, I don't I never I never want done.
30:03
Speaker 2: I want this to be my all day long. Like Instagram,
30:07
Speaker 2: I've curated to be comedians like all everyone I follows
30:10
Speaker 2: Tomedy and it's fun. It makes me feel good. I've
30:13
Speaker 2: done that really deliberately. But it's like a Facebook went
30:16
Speaker 2: a while and I went, why don't want to be
30:17
Speaker 2: opening this on my phone. It's like, I'm no, it's
30:21
Speaker 2: no from me.
30:23
Speaker 1: That's interesting. You know, there's a thing that I've done
30:25
Speaker 1: over the last year one. I think that's a good
30:27
Speaker 1: idea by you two. There's this thing I've done, which
30:31
Speaker 1: is I won't watch anything anything it's a if it's
30:36
Speaker 1: a movie, if it's a series, if it makes me
30:38
Speaker 1: feel icky. Right, there are things that I'm like, oh, oh, like,
30:43
Speaker 1: here's this special on this satanic cult that does that
30:47
Speaker 1: cuts this and they offer upset. I'm like, fuck that,
30:50
Speaker 1: I'm not watching that. I don't want that in my physiology.
30:54
Speaker 1: I don't want that in my brain. I don't want
30:56
Speaker 1: that to be something that I am investing energy in.
30:59
Speaker 1: There's so much much evil, dark, horrible. Oh you got
31:02
Speaker 1: to know what's going on. No you don't, No, you don't.
31:05
Speaker 1: You don't need to know everything that's fucking going on.
31:08
Speaker 1: And also me watching something that's mentally and emotionally disturbing
31:13
Speaker 1: that I can't change something that's happening on a global level.
31:16
Speaker 1: Me watching that, it's not a great idea. Why don't
31:20
Speaker 1: I learn something? Why don't I go and help someone?
31:22
Speaker 1: Why don't I watch something that makes me a better
31:25
Speaker 1: human or potentially helps me to become a better human.
31:28
Speaker 1: So I can't fight all the darkness, but I can
31:31
Speaker 1: go and work in the light, I can go and
31:32
Speaker 1: do some good shit. So let's do that. And there
31:35
Speaker 1: I get halfway through some films, I'm like, nah, and
31:39
Speaker 1: it's not a bad film, but I'm just like, there's
31:41
Speaker 1: too much evil shit in I'm not talking about guys
31:44
Speaker 1: run around shooting people. We know it's all pretend. We
31:47
Speaker 1: know it happens, but this is all pretend. But there's
31:49
Speaker 1: this dark undercurrent of all of this shit I don't
31:54
Speaker 1: want to give any more attention to. But yeah, and
31:56
Speaker 1: it makes me. It's funny because I watch this film
32:00
Speaker 1: films start to finish, and I felt shit for about
32:03
Speaker 1: a day and then I'm like, why do I feel
32:05
Speaker 1: the way that I do? And it's cause I had
32:08
Speaker 1: just exposed my brain and my mind and my energy
32:11
Speaker 1: to this evil, dark shit for two hours voluntarily. Yeah,
32:16
Speaker 1: And it was like that higher intelligence that we all have,
32:19
Speaker 1: it was just saying to me, don't do that, Like
32:21
Speaker 1: this is this is not a good on any level.
32:24
Speaker 1: This is not a good use of your brain, or
32:27
Speaker 1: your skills, or your whatever genius you have, or your energy.
32:31
Speaker 1: This is not a good use of any of that.
32:33
Speaker 1: Go focus on something that will help you or others.
32:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's been so many studies around priming. Priming
32:42
Speaker 2: like with positive words and that priming people yes even yes,
32:46
Speaker 2: like so quickly that they can't actually consciously read the words.
32:50
Speaker 2: You flick these words or things up in front of
32:53
Speaker 2: people and it changes them to being optimistic or feeling good.
32:57
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah about This.
32:59
Speaker 2: Is why I don't. I never watched the news or
33:01
Speaker 2: listen to it because let you hear the music, the
33:04
Speaker 2: click baity titles, the doom and gloom, and I'm like, oh,
33:08
Speaker 2: that shit is infective, infective and.
33:12
Speaker 1: Weirdly, humans have attracted to bad news, not good news.
33:16
Speaker 1: We've spoken about this before. They've tried news services which
33:19
Speaker 1: were just half an hour of good news, great things
33:21
Speaker 1: that are happening. It's all news, but it's good news,
33:24
Speaker 1: like no doom and gloom and devastation and evil. And
33:28
Speaker 1: they didn't work, Like they failed, you know, they didn't
33:33
Speaker 1: get the audience, they didn't get the sponsorship, they didn't
33:35
Speaker 1: get the traction, and they just but you bring up
33:38
Speaker 1: all the evil, dark, doom and gloom, chaos, mayhem, madness,
33:42
Speaker 1: you know, and win a winter chicken dinner. Everyone's leaning
33:46
Speaker 1: forward in their fucking seat. At ten past six with
33:49
Speaker 1: their fucking chicken thigh and their pumpkins co and yeah,
33:53
Speaker 1: get it up. Look at this. Oh look how many
33:55
Speaker 1: people are dying over here? Can you turn it up? Brian? Fuck,
33:59
Speaker 1: I get it, get it. You've got to be informed.
34:01
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't know. There's no like
34:05
Speaker 1: ah ah. And when I watch, when I watch anything
34:11
Speaker 1: where I don't know, I don't don't go there. I
34:15
Speaker 1: just get I get quite upset when I see people
34:18
Speaker 1: who can't defend themselves, you know, in whatever it is.
34:22
Speaker 1: If it might just not just but it might be
34:25
Speaker 1: something big, something global, or it might be in a
34:27
Speaker 1: kid getting attacked, or I'm like, oh fuck, I don't
34:32
Speaker 1: It's not that I don't care. It's like that I
34:34
Speaker 1: care too much. And by the way, that child's now
34:36
Speaker 1: not here anymore. I can't fix it. I can't undo it.
34:40
Speaker 1: So Yeah, I think broadly speaking, we need to be
34:44
Speaker 1: just as we need to be careful what we feed
34:46
Speaker 1: our body, we need to be careful what we feed
34:48
Speaker 1: our mind. Yeah, because you kind of become to an
34:51
Speaker 1: extent what you focus on.
34:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we're exposed to it twenty four to seven.
34:56
Speaker 2: It's not like the six o'clock nightly news or the
34:59
Speaker 2: daily newspaper. It's twenty four to seven primed and then
35:04
Speaker 2: reinforced by the algorithms that go, oh, you're interested in that,
35:07
Speaker 2: have more of it and more of it.
35:09
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, really good.
35:12
Speaker 2: I think it's really good to be aware of that.
35:16
Speaker 1: Let's do maybe, let's do maybe two more quazis all right,
35:20
Speaker 1: I'm thinking all three. Let's see how we go.
35:22
Speaker 2: Personal impact here is one of the most common warning
35:25
Speaker 2: signs that someone's drive has tipped into self sabotage or burnout.
35:31
Speaker 1: Okay, let me just what are the most common warning
35:34
Speaker 1: signs that someone's drive Okay, I think when this is
35:39
Speaker 1: off the top of the head, So I want your
35:41
Speaker 1: answer as well. Most common warning signs that someone's drive
35:44
Speaker 1: has tipped into self sabotage or burnout. Well, I would
35:48
Speaker 1: think when there's no balance, So when it's only work
35:52
Speaker 1: or it's only you know, and it's just go, go go,
35:57
Speaker 1: and it's obsession and when whatever you're doing, it's like
36:02
Speaker 1: people have said to me at times that I'm obsessed,
36:06
Speaker 1: and I understand why they would say that, and maybe
36:12
Speaker 1: there have been times when I was a little obsessed,
36:14
Speaker 1: but I just feel like I'm busy, and for the
36:16
Speaker 1: most part, in the middle of my busyness is joy,
36:19
Speaker 1: is growth, is fun? Is laughter? Is learning? I think
36:24
Speaker 1: it depends on the outcome of whatever that person is doing.
36:28
Speaker 1: What is the emotional and psychological and maybe sociological outcome.
36:33
Speaker 1: Is the outcome bad? Is there something bad happening because
36:37
Speaker 1: they are so driven and so focused and so perhaps
36:41
Speaker 1: in your eyes obsessed, is there something bad happening? So
36:45
Speaker 1: I think like our results will tell us, the outcomes
36:48
Speaker 1: will tell us whether or not perhaps what that person
36:52
Speaker 1: is doing is being done in a healthy or an
36:55
Speaker 1: unhealthy way. And I think also maybe for you share,
37:02
Speaker 1: when people can't seem to see another point of view,
37:09
Speaker 1: it's like no, this is no, this is how it's done,
37:13
Speaker 1: and this is and now all of a sudden they're
37:15
Speaker 1: unteachable and they're not open. But they love to pride
37:18
Speaker 1: themselves in the fact that they're objective and they're all
37:21
Speaker 1: of these things, but they're not really. So I think,
37:26
Speaker 1: you know, also being able to hit the pause button
37:31
Speaker 1: for a moment and you know, step back and for
37:34
Speaker 1: a moment, I mean maybe a day or two and
37:37
Speaker 1: just not do any of that stuff. And what do
37:40
Speaker 1: you like when you're not doing it? What do you
37:43
Speaker 1: like when you're not? You know? It's like I wrote
37:45
Speaker 1: a poster quite a while or a few months ago
37:47
Speaker 1: about fuck all days. You know, I have just have
37:49
Speaker 1: days days of fuck a, What are you doing? Fuck all?
37:52
Speaker 1: Are you being productive? No? Are you building or creating anything? No?
37:56
Speaker 1: Are you solving any problems? No? Good for you. I
38:00
Speaker 1: just think we all need And I've had a few
38:02
Speaker 1: in the last couple of weeks because I've been a
38:04
Speaker 1: bit crooked, and part of me is like, you're so
38:06
Speaker 1: lazy to get up, don't do I am. I shut
38:08
Speaker 1: the fuck up. It's like for me to just do
38:11
Speaker 1: not much has been like healing and therapeutic, but I'm
38:17
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with it. But when I do it, I actually
38:20
Speaker 1: benefit from it.
38:25
Speaker 2: Our relationship, like having an awareness on our relationship with
38:30
Speaker 2: the sacrifices and when that shifts and the mindset around that.
38:34
Speaker 2: So there's been there's times where I can be really
38:39
Speaker 2: flat out busy and super productive and I'm happy to
38:43
Speaker 2: sacrifice everything I sacrifice, and then it can tip into
38:47
Speaker 2: times where I noticed that I'm a lot more negative
38:51
Speaker 2: and I have less resilience, and I'm a little bit
38:54
Speaker 2: bitter about the sacrifices because now it's gone beyond choice
38:58
Speaker 2: into that place of I have to. Like I said before,
39:03
Speaker 2: it's almost that it's gone from chasing the good stuff
39:06
Speaker 2: to being the baseline and not wanting to dip below it.
39:09
Speaker 2: So it's just I think it's and I reckon that's
39:11
Speaker 2: hard to because you're the only one in the middle
39:15
Speaker 2: of that. So it's really hard. Like you've created warning signs.
39:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, it's like you've created a personal prison, like
39:27
Speaker 1: just you live in. It's like I'm in this self
39:29
Speaker 1: created emotional and psychological prison and I don't know how
39:34
Speaker 1: to get out of it now because this is where
39:36
Speaker 1: I operate.
39:37
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think I've talked about that a bit
39:41
Speaker 2: over the last year or so. But I'm feeling because
39:44
Speaker 2: I'm perimenopausal and I'm like a fucking different person every day.
39:48
Speaker 2: Sometimes lately, I feel like I dip in and out
39:54
Speaker 2: of that. Like I feel there's days where I just
39:56
Speaker 2: don't have the resilience and I'm a bit snarky, and
39:59
Speaker 2: I'm like, interesting that you're snarky, is like I'm looking
40:02
Speaker 2: for things to be snarky about and not snarky. Two
40:05
Speaker 2: people but just I can see it in how I
40:08
Speaker 2: might internally react to things. That's why I got rid
40:11
Speaker 2: of shit things off my Facebook. It was like, okay,
40:14
Speaker 2: I need less of that because it's evoking reactions.
40:19
Speaker 1: You know what I think you should do? This would
40:20
Speaker 1: be fucking hilarious. This is something I really should share
40:23
Speaker 1: with you off the podcast, but I love our listeners,
40:26
Speaker 1: so fuck it, I'm going to share it with you now.
40:29
Speaker 1: I would love to do this, but I can't because
40:31
Speaker 1: I'm not a woman. But what would be funny? But no,
40:34
Speaker 1: you know, there's no self help or personal growth value
40:38
Speaker 1: at all. So get to get a graph, you know,
40:42
Speaker 1: with an X and a Y access so horizontal, vertical,
40:47
Speaker 1: and across the bottom you have wake up, So first
40:51
Speaker 1: is like wake up, let's say six am. And then
40:55
Speaker 1: right across to when you go to bed to bed,
40:57
Speaker 1: say I don't know whatever it is nine pm. And
41:01
Speaker 1: then so you have the times hourly times across the bottom,
41:04
Speaker 1: and then on the why you have all of these
41:07
Speaker 1: different emotional states at different times through the day, ranging
41:12
Speaker 1: from joy to I want to fucking kill someone? Right,
41:15
Speaker 1: How would that would make a funny graphic? Because I
41:18
Speaker 1: feel like with you there are times when I call
41:22
Speaker 1: you or you call me and it's like your energy
41:24
Speaker 1: is off the chart, like you're laughing, you're having fun,
41:28
Speaker 1: you're happy. And then other times not not terrible, but
41:32
Speaker 1: it's like you want to punch someone in the face,
41:34
Speaker 1: and I go, you want to punch someone? Don't You go? Yes,
41:37
Speaker 1: I want to punch someone in the face. And I go,
41:40
Speaker 1: what's happened? You go, I don't know. I'm like, okay, sorry,
41:43
Speaker 1: you know, it's just I'm like, ops. It's like, if
41:46
Speaker 1: I'm angry, I can tell you exactly why I'm angry
41:49
Speaker 1: what's going on. Or if I'm happy, it's like something
41:52
Speaker 1: happened and I can go this is this is what
41:55
Speaker 1: I feel and this is why I feel it. I
41:57
Speaker 1: go to you, what do you feel like I'm fucking angry?
41:59
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm like, Kate, why, Like I don't know.
42:03
Speaker 2: I follow this lady on Insta, Jane Sharp Jane with
42:07
Speaker 2: why Everybody Jane shaps. She's so funny. She dresses up
42:11
Speaker 2: with a version of herself. I'll show you there's a
42:14
Speaker 2: version of herself with smeared makeup, lipstick, and per talking
42:20
Speaker 2: to perimenopause. There she is, Oh god, and she does
42:25
Speaker 2: these skits where perimenopause swoons in and carries on and
42:30
Speaker 2: just derails her. And then she's talking to the normal,
42:34
Speaker 2: normally dressed, appropriate looking version of us. It's so funny,
42:38
Speaker 2: but it's so true. It's just like, oh, oh, you
42:42
Speaker 2: wake up one day and go, oh good. We're grumpy
42:45
Speaker 2: for absolutely no reason. We're exhausted, we're tired, and we're snarky,
42:50
Speaker 2: and now we've got to go and be happy.
42:55
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, there isn't a reason, but we
42:57
Speaker 1: don't know what the reason is even. I have that
42:59
Speaker 1: sometimes a lot, but every now and every now and
43:02
Speaker 1: then I feel a little saddie macsad stuff. Not like
43:08
Speaker 1: I want to, you know, if I can stay in
43:10
Speaker 1: bed for three days sad, but like it's sad. And
43:13
Speaker 1: I'm like, not not often, but the last year or
43:16
Speaker 1: two I'm like, and I think it's maybe I don't
43:19
Speaker 1: know underlying stuff. Maybe I got that, Maybe I got that.
43:25
Speaker 1: Is there one more question that you want to open
43:27
Speaker 1: the door on?
43:30
Speaker 2: What about about how does tying self worth to achievement
43:36
Speaker 2: affect relationships and emotional well being?
43:41
Speaker 1: How does tying self worth to achievement? Okay, well, I
43:47
Speaker 1: think when we tie self worth to achievement, then basically
43:51
Speaker 1: the better our achievements that you know, this is suggesting
43:54
Speaker 1: the higher self worth, the better achievement. There's a positive
43:58
Speaker 1: correlation there, and I think that is true to a point.
44:06
Speaker 1: I think when we do bigger and better things, we're
44:08
Speaker 1: a bit more positive, we're a bit more confident, we
44:10
Speaker 1: think we're a bit better, which we may or may
44:13
Speaker 1: not be. But I definitely think having you know, when
44:20
Speaker 1: when we fail at something, or we think we've failed
44:23
Speaker 1: at something or we think we created a worse outcome
44:26
Speaker 1: than we should have, that effects and self worth, you know,
44:31
Speaker 1: individual perception, confidence, all of those things. And I just
44:35
Speaker 1: think that because that is an emotional impact, that's psychological
44:39
Speaker 1: impact that spills into relationships, and as this question asks
44:44
Speaker 1: emotional wellbeing generally, I think the challenge is to try
44:48
Speaker 1: to find self worth without having to find it through outcomes,
44:55
Speaker 1: you know, without trying to find it, or without being
44:58
Speaker 1: dependent on producing good results or getting better or growing
45:04
Speaker 1: or like not everything needs to be that Like, I
45:07
Speaker 1: think there are periods of time where there could be
45:10
Speaker 1: a three month period in your life where just fucking
45:13
Speaker 1: you know, staying in a holding pattern is quite the
45:15
Speaker 1: achievement because you feel like dog shit. And like, for me,
45:21
Speaker 1: a practical example of that is the last two weeks
45:23
Speaker 1: where I've felt really quite bad every day. I still
45:28
Speaker 1: in my ten thousand steps, and I'm not saying oh,
45:31
Speaker 1: so if you're crooked, I'm not saying anything. Just for
45:34
Speaker 1: me just going it was just good for my mind
45:38
Speaker 1: and for my kind of emotional state to go and
45:41
Speaker 1: do this thing. And also I'm having days where I'm
45:43
Speaker 1: not training in the gym, which is very weird for me,
45:46
Speaker 1: very atypical. But and then there are times when you know,
45:51
Speaker 1: and this is hard for me because I am somewhat
45:55
Speaker 1: addictive in personality around certain things where I go, oh,
46:00
Speaker 1: I can't you know, I'm going here, I'm going there,
46:03
Speaker 1: so I can't lift weights for two days and there's
46:06
Speaker 1: nothing in my brain that wants that, right, But I go, well,
46:11
Speaker 1: it's just you're at a two day conference or your whatever,
46:14
Speaker 1: you know, and I just can't. And so being okay
46:16
Speaker 1: with that, and being okay with not being super productive
46:22
Speaker 1: and not being super successful and just being you and
46:28
Speaker 1: where your self worth doesn't have to tie into an
46:33
Speaker 1: external thing or outcome. It's hard because that's the way
46:38
Speaker 1: we kind of feel good about ourselves is generally with
46:41
Speaker 1: stuff that we do. But what if you just felt
46:44
Speaker 1: good about yourself because you're a good human.
46:47
Speaker 2: I think relationships are the antidote to all of it,
46:51
Speaker 2: because you think about when you are with good people,
46:56
Speaker 2: nothing matters. Like when I was sitting on top of
47:00
Speaker 2: the Himalayas with a bunch of people, not one of
47:04
Speaker 2: my thoughts were about anything I needed to have or
47:08
Speaker 2: be or do. It was just you're just around good
47:10
Speaker 2: people and all of Really, a lot of the drivers
47:15
Speaker 2: that are pushing this behavior unconsciously within us revolve around
47:20
Speaker 2: acceptance or belonging power, which is a dynamic that can
47:26
Speaker 2: only exist within a relationship. I need to be better
47:30
Speaker 2: so people will accept me or appreciate me or want me.
47:34
Speaker 2: And when you're just around good people, none of that,
47:37
Speaker 2: none of that is activated.
47:41
Speaker 1: I have a problem with that. With that, I feel
47:44
Speaker 1: like because I've always felt like even though I don't
47:47
Speaker 1: seem like it. I know I don't sound like it,
47:48
Speaker 1: but I've felt not enough a lot. So I feel
47:54
Speaker 1: like if I'm like, I don't want anyone to see
47:56
Speaker 1: me when I'm sick. Not because I have a problem
47:59
Speaker 1: with being sick or I want to pretend I'm an
48:01
Speaker 1: alpha male, but I just feel like, well, I'm not
48:04
Speaker 1: any value to them, so there's no use being around
48:08
Speaker 1: me because I'm no value. I want to be value
48:11
Speaker 1: to me, and I know that's not a healthy thing.
48:14
Speaker 1: And I know exactly what you're thinking is you know,
48:17
Speaker 1: but yeah, you're right. I literally will almost push people away.
48:21
Speaker 1: I don't mean to. I'm not very good at letting
48:26
Speaker 1: people nurture me, but I want to nurture and serve others.
48:31
Speaker 1: But I'm pretty shit at the receiving end of that.
48:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that doesn't work.
48:38
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, it's like I'm good at it.
48:40
Speaker 2: I know. Don't do that because you can't be because
48:45
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, otherways talked about that whole commodity thing,
48:49
Speaker 2: like when I feel like a commodity because of what
48:52
Speaker 2: happened when I was young, and people give you stuff
48:56
Speaker 2: so they can do stuff or take stuff or you know,
48:58
Speaker 2: like so I've got this real thix stuff. Yes, So
49:01
Speaker 2: if you like, you don't just get friendship or connection.
49:06
Speaker 2: You have to do this and this and be this
49:09
Speaker 2: in order to have it. It comes in.
49:11
Speaker 1: There's a condition or a strategy.
49:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, condition, So I think I can't remember where I
49:19
Speaker 2: was going with that, but.
49:21
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is let people.
49:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, let people love you, because you know, don't be
49:29
Speaker 2: a commodity, because you're making yourself a commodity harps, and
49:33
Speaker 2: I'm going to be of value to people. And what
49:37
Speaker 2: if you just are by letting them have something to
49:41
Speaker 2: care about. What's the point of having a connection with
49:45
Speaker 2: someone or a friendship on any level if they can't
49:49
Speaker 2: care about you, well.
49:51
Speaker 1: If times great, shat everyone times up.
49:54
Speaker 2: If you don't let people care about you, then they
49:57
Speaker 2: like you're taking something away from them.
49:59
Speaker 1: That's really I know, I know you're exactly right. I'm wrong,
50:03
Speaker 1: corner a Hondo. I know it's something I need to
50:07
Speaker 1: deal with, and you are uncomfortably correct, So fuck you
50:13
Speaker 1: and all your correctness.
50:16
Speaker 2: That chatters. That wasn't from chadders, guys, that was from no.
50:20
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go there. That's it. We're not
50:23
Speaker 1: We're not putting this up. Yes we are. Hey, don't
50:26
Speaker 1: forget on the Goldie. Come and see me, like you know,
50:29
Speaker 1: Mum's hip hop operation and you know I'm lonely and
50:33
Speaker 1: you know all that stuff. Go to the website, click
50:36
Speaker 1: on education, TIF, what do you want to promote? Feel free?
50:40
Speaker 1: Open the door. Just just spook something.
50:43
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know nothing. I'll be on the Gold
50:45
Speaker 2: Coast on the thirtieth of October. If people want to
50:48
Speaker 2: come to that event. That's not my event.
50:50
Speaker 1: Oh you will, you will, you will. And you're speaking,
50:53
Speaker 1: you're you're doing your thing. You're up there, just bloody
50:56
Speaker 1: rock in the world. All right, being muried. Thank you
51:02
Speaker 1: back in therapy for me. See ya.