Latest / The Midlife Momma Podcast - Empty nest mom, Parenting adult children, Midlife transition, Christian mom / 190. Overcoming Worst-Case Scenario Thinking About Your Adult Child with Coach Jennifer Collins

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190. Overcoming Worst-Case Scenario Thinking About Your Adult Child with Coach Jennifer Collins · The Midlife Momma Podcast - Empty nest mom, Parenting adult children, Midlife transition, Christian mom

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Arthik.
• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Christian parenting.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey Mama, I'm Pamela Hinklman and you're listening to the Midlife Mama podcast.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: The show for Christian moms who want to let go with grace and actually enjoy their empty nest.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a certified empty nest coach, speaker, and mom of five grown kids.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know the challenges this season brings from letting go to setting healthy boundaries, to rediscovering your purpose, and reconnecting with your husband.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Each week I'll be your guide.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: offering heartfelt conversations, faith-filled encouragement and practical strategies to help you thrive in this next chapter.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: My husband and I are loving the emptiness years and I have strong growing relationships with my adult kids and I want the same for you.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't miss the end of each episode.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll share a quick coaching tip you can apply right away to improve your relationship with your kids or your spouse.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: One favorite before we dive in.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you find this episode helpful, would you leave a rating and review?
• 1:05
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• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a link in the show notes with instructions.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you're following the podcast so you don't miss a single episode.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's get started.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey mama, welcome back to the Midlife Mama podcast, the place for faith, friendship, and we'll talk for empty nest moms.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you've ever found yourself lying awake at night, playing out every worst-case scenario about your adult child's choices, you're not alone.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: As moms are love runs so deep that our minds can quickly spiral into fear.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what if those thoughts don't have to control us?
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Today I'm joined by Master Coach Jennifer Collins, host of the almost empty nest podcast.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: She empowers moms of teens and young adults to release the anxiety of holding on and embracing the freedom of letting their children sore while rediscovering themselves in the process.
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: together will unpack why our brains default to worse case thinking, how to recognize when fear is driving the story, and most importantly, learn some strategies to cope.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So grab your coffee, take a deep breath, and let's step out of the spiral into hope.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome, Jennifer!
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, thank you so much for having me, Pamela.
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm just excited for this conversation because this month we're focusing on kind of the emotional overwhelm that moms experience.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this worst case scenario thinking is so common.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I would love for you to tell us, what does it look like in real life?
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what are a few tell-tale signs or behaviors that signal we've slipped into catastrophizing?
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think there's there's so many of us who, who, at the stage of life, I think, tend to think that we fall into catastrophizing as if it means that there's something wrong with us, or that that we're falling into these bad habits.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we often know we're doing it.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I know that this has happened to me.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's that two or three a.m.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: wake up in the middle of the night.
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And your heart is racing, you can't stop spinning in whatever you're thinking about, like replaying conversations or trying to think about what else you could say.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so you often notice that you're trying to problem solve and trying to almost like spin in solutions.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's often kind of a basically a symptom of your mind going through all these worst case scenarios and and thinking through projecting out what could happen.
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we do this for a really important reason, you know, when when we first met, we were talking about how for a very long time for decades at this point as moms.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have trained ourselves to be looking for danger, especially when it
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was a really important skill set when we were talking about worrying about our kids rolling off the changing table or, you know, being near the stairs.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we were actually incredibly adept at looking around our environment and protecting our children.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they were very lucky to have us.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so they're a protector for a really long time.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think we all start to notice even when our kids are in middle school and high school.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And certainly, once they're out in the world, how many different dangers and even just emotional hurts, they face that we can't protect them from anymore.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yet we remain in this protector role.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we find ourselves in this space of spending and trying to problem solve.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know on this podcast, you talk a lot about control and, you know, wanting to fix things and it really is a symptom of this worst case scenario thinking yes.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would love just in case a mom is listening today and this is the first time she's ever heard the term catastrophizing.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you explain that a little bit?
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually one of many mindset traps that our mind can fall into.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it essentially means that our brains project out a worst case scenario.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: They basically take one situation and they think
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: you think of the ultimate worst thing that could happen.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not just that your son is dating someone you don't like.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's that they're going to get married and never speak to you again.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, no coach.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You kind of go to this terrible place.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the truth is, your brain is doing that because it really wants to avoid those negative outcomes.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's actually a problem-solving mechanism because our brains in this default setting kind of think, well, if I can project out this worst case and then back up and try to fix it now, maybe I can get break up with that girlfriend and then that will never happen, right?
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so...
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It goes to the extreme.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a really important hue.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's that moment when you go from, I'm having a lovely day to, oh my gosh, I'm at my son's funeral.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it happens in a matter of seconds.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It really does.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels so real.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the other important thing to recognize is that, you know, we beat ourselves up for catastrophizing, but the problem is our brains are
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: at often envisioning scenarios that don't feel that far off, you know, and especially when you're in a stressful situation or you're struggling in some way in a relationship, sometimes these worst case, you know, it feels really real.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the time where it becomes hard to convince yourself that it's just a mindset trap that you're just making it up because you feel like it really could happen.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, what other signs are there of these mindset traps?
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are there other traps or tell us more about that?
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, for sure.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, one of the other signs, I think that, you know, I talk a lot with my clients about, you know, our fighter flight instincts.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And how we often are triggered in our environments, you know, just in our day-to-day situations.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the first
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: some surprise, or some news that we don't like, or some situation we don't like, is that we can feel these physical sensations of essentially fighter flight.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I often talk to my clients about it's almost like that jump scare.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're in a scary movie and someone comes around the corner, some scary person, and it's like, your body's going to react.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: we have very physical reactions to a scary environment.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then our brains will take over and start interpreting what this danger means.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: What does it mean for me now?
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: What does it mean for me in my future?
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'll often, especially when we're having a hard time kind of figuring out, how do I stop spinning in that spiral?
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I stop thinking about these worst case scenarios and going into that controlling mode?
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I often invite people to really stop and think about what are those physical symptoms where you're triggered in that moment where you can just take a pause and find some compassion for yourself because we really don't have any control over how our bodies are triggered, right?
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very immediate response.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our brains are incredibly adept at reacting to our circumstances and so being able to
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just give yourself some compassion and empathy in that moment to take a pause.
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And even just to kind of give yourself a breath and say, okay, right in this moment, I'm okay.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: How can I create safety for myself right now?
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even in that pause, it gives you a little bit of space to kind of realize, okay, how can I observe that my brain is going down this path of thinking of the
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: and take a step back and really evaluate, okay, is there something I can reasonably do or do I need to let go and find some grace in this situation?
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know what we do, we do the opposite.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, I'm worse, you may never.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm the worst mom ever.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the worst mom ever or we or if there's something wrong with me that my brain is going there.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: We beat ourselves up.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: We do tend to go to the something's wrong with me and just notice how much more pain that layer is on we're already thinking of some terrible outcome and then we're also thinking I'm not capable of handling it.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've done it wrong if this is where we are and it's just create so many stories of pain and it's and it's a wonder why we're up in the middle of the night thinking.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk about the stories we tell ourselves because I think that is key.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us what you mean by the stories we tell ourselves.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so our brains are looking out into the world, observing all the circumstances of our lives, the things going on with our kids.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're essentially creating an interpretation, right?
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I often think about it as, you know, the lens that we're looking through on my lens might be pink, yours might be purple.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're both interpreting our lives using these stories and it doesn't mean our stories are wrong.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But they're often kind of informed by a lot of different things, maybe the way we were brought up, or the hurts that we've experienced in the past, you know, we have a lot of kind of different things that color our lens, but their lens is not always observing an objective truth in our life.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we can tend to create stories in our mind that lead us down that path of the worst case scenario.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it can be really hard to untangle yourself when you've been looking at a situation for so long and in many ways.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: There might be aspects of your story that you really feel that you need to hold on to, that feel really true for you.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's not necessarily invalidating those stories because we all can interpret the world in whatever way works for us, but it also sometimes can lead us down a path where we're creating results in our life that just don't work, that make us kind of keep us stuck in pain as opposed to moving forward in our life.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're stuck in pain, we should be paying attention.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And let's try to do something different.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a question about what happens if a mom's in a situation with their adult child that could really be dangerous, like addiction or struggling in a relationship.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: How does a mom learn to differentiate between the reality of
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's such a good question because it really is true.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, getting to the stories where we're just talking about there are some situations where you have reason to fear.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when your kid is really struggling and I think that's the place where taking that step back and giving yourself compassion for the fear.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because that fear is
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: real and in many ways warranted based on the experience you're going through and being able to care for yourself in that fear, not making yourself wrong for it, but also knowing that as we project out those worst case scenarios, even the worst case and I know, you know, I've been through things with my sons where
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've seen worse case scenarios that didn't feel that far fetched to me, you know, as much as I would have loved to believe, oh, it's all going to turn out okay, your brain is going to kind of question that if you're trying to put happy thoughts on top or top of the fear.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't always convince yourself it's going to turn out okay.
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think one of the most powerful places to go is just to
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: give yourself the awareness that and I know your your audiences is very steeped in faith to know that if I were to ever go down that path of the worst case scenario, I'll know what to do.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: God will take care of me in that place.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: and really to know that right now in this moment all I can do is my best and I can support my child.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can problem solve around this but we can't prevent every scenario.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: The end of the day our lives are kind of a gift that we're given and we need to do our best in the midst of it and so finding the grace to be able to let go of those worst case.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Once you've done everything you can,
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think because we're grown and we've had some really hard things in our lives, we know that God can bring good out of them.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's growth, there's maturity.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's learning to deepen your faith.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like all these things that we want to prevent from happening with our kids often makes them weaker, where if we just step back and say, okay, Lord, we're just going to trust you and see what you do.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is faithful.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so then we don't have to
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely, and just to know, I think that there's, there's some value and just as you've said, knowing that through pain, we grow even grown our relationships.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know some of the hardest times I've been through with my children, we have both grown and grown in our relationships through them.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the truth is life is going to bring us beautiful joy and horrible pain, you know, and it's kind of embracing the humanity of our experience and understanding that life is a part of all of that and knowing that we have our faith to carry us through those times.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well let's get to the nitty gritty.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: What can a mom do when she knows she's spiraling?
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think we're really pretty good at identifying it.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are the practical tools to interrupt spiraling?
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thoughts in the moment.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Something that a mom can do in the car on the couch or lying awake at 2 a.m.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the most powerful things is to start.
• 14:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Really knowing what those signs are, whether it's the physical sensations that you're feeling when you're going through it or whether it's you noticing that you're lying to spiraling and find one phrase that anchors you back, whether that's I am safe right now or
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: some phrase that brings you to safety because what you're really trying to prevent is danger.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're really trying to get to avoid these worst case scenarios and if you can anchor yourself in safety in that moment, it gives you just a moment to pause thinking I am safe.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: giving, you know, taking a deep breath and asking, is there anything I need to do right now?
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there something I need to do that is undone?
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I would often do this with myself in the middle of the night because what you often find is, okay, I'm safe.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's 2 a.m.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: there is literally not one thing I can do productive.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one's awake, there's no one to call, right?
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no no one needs an email for me right now.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So just can I be safe in knowing I have done all I can do and just finding the comfort in knowing we can always take step forward.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like right now I am safe and then giving yourself permission to just think through
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so good.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what I hear you saying is, number one, that pauses everything.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think when we're spiling, we don't pause.
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just like, oh, we let the tape keep rolling.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we pause and then think of a phrase that we could say to ourselves.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as women of faith, we could even say, yes, I am safe or guide your with me or, you know, Jesus is my help.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So anything like that,
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: put the brakes on the sparkling.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love that.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just pause.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we can find so much power in that pause because often we realize we really have done everything we can.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, if there's if there's something to be done in the moment, we don't sit there spiraling.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: We do it.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're spiraling more often than not, you've already done all the things.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's actually the moment where we need to pause and let go.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey mama, if your house feels too quiet and your heart feels too heavy after launching your child, I've created a guide just for you.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's called journaling through a transitional grief.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: A gentle, faith-filled resource to help you process the deep of motions of letting go.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Inside, you'll find six reflection questions that will help you name your feelings,
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: invite God into the grief and experience his comfort in the middle of change.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, transitional grief is only a season and God is leading you toward peace, purpose, and joy.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can grab your free copy at the link in the show notes.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's get back to our conversation.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what does let go look like?
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is such a good question.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that there are so many different layers to this, but sometimes sometimes it's letting go of needing things to look exactly like you need them to look in order to feel safe.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's letting go of some of our expectations or how our kids are going to live their lives.
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, needing it to always fit within what we think is the right thing.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: What am I holding onto that's creating pain for me or in my relationships with other people?
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's almost more helpful to think about what am I holding onto and what is that costing me?
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so good.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Say that again.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: What am I holding onto and what is it costing me?
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and those are the moments where, you know, there's opportunity for you to think about is this something I'm ready to let go and often we need to really think through and be faced with the impact and the cost of what we're holding on to before we're ready to let go.
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think of expectations alone.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, more moms are read by that.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: If we would just let go of our expectations and understand, life with our adult kids is not supposed to look like when they were small.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not supposed to.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: We do not want our children in our basement when they're 35 years old.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And still is not the goal.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: go through.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard to, I think, that we can often struggle with, you know, expectations that sound really warranted on the one hand, like, you know, that we expect our kids to treat us in a certain way or reach out to us a certain number of times.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, and while on the one hand, all of us moms would agree, yes, it would be really good if our kids would treat us that way, we don't always get that treatment.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the question is, is expecting it, and in some ways demanding it, if the relationship is tense, is that helping our relationship or hurting it?
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the question you have to ask, not as my expectation valid, because you can expect whatever you want.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when it becomes a demand, that's the time where you really have to look at what is the cost of this.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what is the cost of your new man?
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is a bit imponder that one for him.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's so powerful.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is hard.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a long list of them.
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I joke with my clients all the time.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: If I were to have to come up with a list of all my expectations, would be here all night, right?
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we all have a lot of expectations, but we don't always
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't always take accountability for them.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the freedom comes and letting them go, gosh, there's just such freedom in that.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not meant to be held captive to a former way of living when this huge shift has come.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: We knew what was coming.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we can get through it.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we can have vibrant beautiful relationships with our kids.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely, I also feel like one of the most beautiful things that that opens you up to is truly leaning into unconditional love, as soon as you have expectations that you need to be met their conditions on the relationship.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It that works as long as the other part party is willing to meet you where you are, but especially as our kids are seeking their independence and pulling away and doing things on their terms a little bit more.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: If we want connection with them, we've got to have that balance.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's so beautiful.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Especially for the mom whose child has veered away from the way they raise them, the values, the beliefs like
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: but our love is what holds us together.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as we learn to navigate that and learn to listen more than giving advice and all that stuff.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which we talk about on this podcast all the time.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So literally I love that.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I want to jump a little over here to setting boundaries because this is another thing we talk about.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So many moms fear that setting boundaries will make things worse.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how do you coach a mom to hold loving limits
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Danger, do this.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: My kid will be really bad at me.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, absolutely.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and one thing that I always like to share upfront about boundaries is the way I think about them.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not about getting somebody else to do something different.
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're always about how we show up.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if we think it about it more in terms of
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: what I'm doing, how I speak, what consequence I actually have the power to enforce, because we'll often set boundaries that we can't even enforce.
• 22:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it really is a power struggle, because we're wondering why they're not following through.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we had no power in that boundary.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think really thinking through how do I want to show up with intention that this isn't a reaction, this isn't a punishment, but if you really, how do I want to approach the situation?
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So no matter what type of boundary you're setting, I mean, maybe it's around, you know, where we're spending the holidays, you know, you have, you have the ability to make decisions around what you'll do and what you'll accept.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you also don't have the ability to set boundaries around what other people do.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's almost the first layer of really understanding where do I have power in this relationship.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so much more about our choices than it is about getting other people to do what we want.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like to say it's
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: it's limits with love.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all it is.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's about what you need.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you say, it's about how you show up.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't have to fear that.
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't be the mom who fears that.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, absolutely.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: One, I think that if you're leading with love and leading with intention, there's no reason to fear that.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the other person is going to react how they react and if we're showing up with love and we continue to show up with love, they get to have their feelings about whatever boundary we've said, but we continue to show up with love and it allows that reaction and relationship to stay steady.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, that's beautiful.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I would love for you to share a brief success story.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: What changed from after she learned to manage worst case thinking and give our listeners their one first step for this week?
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I've worked with so many clients.
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this becomes such a hot topic and so many relationships I have, but you know, I've had clients who have struggled all their lives with different aspects of life that have just felt overwhelming to them, you know, where.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, they've gone to therapy, talking about their struggles with money or relationships, and it almost becomes bigger because they feel diagnosed with anxiety and, you know, kind of overcome with, with this worst case scenario, thinking that actually becomes a bit of an identity for them.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the things that I try to help my clients unpack is really
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: being anxious isn't an identity that we're all born with this inherent ability to catastrophize and that it really is a natural instinct born out of our desire to stay safe and to protect the ones that we love and really beginning to create that empathy with how we respond and how it in fact becomes habitual for us, right?
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because anything you practice becomes a habit
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: fall into these ways of worst-case scenario thinking it can be come something that is very it it repeats itself and so I've had so many clients who have gone through my program and really developed a new identity around the way they handle their anxiety and we
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: will even joke sometimes will name it, you know, that slider flight.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've I've had all sorts of names and I'm the fun way to refer to that anxiety with a name.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've had clients call it the white rabbit that's called, called make it frank.
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've had all just almost create a sense of love and lightness around this emotion that is really a natural response.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And kind of almost makes that book a man feels softer, more something that we can handle, and where the anxiety used to be this kind of overwhelming, I've got to shut down my day now it's something where you kind of take it in your purse.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, today we're just going to be a little anxious.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: changes your experience of your life when you feel like you have control over a way of thinking that you used to overtake you.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've had clients who have gone through their daughter's wedding without any fear, with me while spending tons of money and used to have fears of money and they had so much peace and love because they had taken care of themselves through it and were able to
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is part about catastrophizing and any of the minds that traps, I mean, perfectionism, the illusion of control, there are so many different ways of thinking or mind can fall into it.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It takes us away from the present moment and really being here for what is in our life.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the beauty of really being present with what is, become something that you can do when you
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: are able to see your mind and see it as a friend, see it with empathy as opposed to something that kind of creates an emotional experience that's overwhelming for you.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what can a mom try this week?
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I would say, start with just noticing this fight or flight.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Noticing if you are falling into this worst case scenario, thinking, and just take a pause and say, I am safe right now.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're finding our own safe phrase that God is here.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not alone.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever phrase empowers you to just take a state of pause and give yourself a bit of compassion in that moment.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh gosh.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well I just want to say thanks for being here Jennifer and I would love you to tell my listeners where they can find you online and then about a free gift you have for them.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well you can find me on the almost empty-ness podcast.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I put out two podcasts a week but you can also find me online at vsmalljard.com and each month I offer a free masterclass.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: This
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I often do other kind of whether it's mindset traps or finding joy in the emptiness, lots of different topics, so you can find that all on my website.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wonderful.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I will leave the link in the show notes for all those good things.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mama, what a freeing conversation with Jennifer and I hope that you're walking away with a little more courage to pause the spiral, invite God into the worry and remind your heart that he's already at work in your adult child's life and yours.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's your coaching tip of the week.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: In each episode, I will give you one actionable step to improve your life.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, you can't change everything, but you can take one step to be better.
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: This week, I want you to just simply identify the moments that you spiral and then do a Jennifer said, take that pause, just take that pause and tell yourself you're safe.
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, you don't have to carry the weight of worst-case scenarios.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: As you learn to manage your thinking, you can also love pray and trust the one who loves your child even more than you do.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: If today's episode encouraged you, would you take a minute to share it with another mom who needs this reminder.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Until next time, mama, grace and peace.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You've got this and God's got you.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for spending time with me on the Midlife Mama podcast.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you leave each episode feeling a little more encouraged, equipped, and seen because that's what this space is all about.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Through the stories, insights, and conversations we share here, I'm coaching you through the ups and downs of the empty nest, helping you rediscover purpose, deepen faith, and enjoy this new season of life.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're ready for an even more personalized support, I'd love to invite you to book a free connection column.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: The link is in the show notes, and we'll talk about how I can walk alongside you as your coach.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And let's stay connected.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Follow me on Instagram at P-Hanklman.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's P-H-E-N-K-E-L-M-A-N, or come find me on Facebook at Pamela Hanklman, M-D-Nest Coach.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to figure this all out on your own, Mama.
• 30:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm here for you when you're ready.