Latest / Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast / WAR GAMES: Angels falling short in wins and Wins Above Replacement column

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WAR GAMES: Angels falling short in wins and Wins Above Replacement column · Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Well, hey, Angel fans, and welcome to Halo Territory. I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: am Mike DiGiovanna, former LA Times baseball writer and host
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: of the show, joined by Mark Trumbo, former Angel slugger
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and regular co-host. And, as usual, we have another special
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: guest today, Eno Saris of The Athletic.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Eno, how you doing? Welcome to the show. Good to
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: see you guys. It's been a while, Mark. It's good
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: to see you.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Hey, we called Eno here today to help us unpack
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the statistic, the all-encompassing statistic known as WAR, wins above replacement.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: We hear this term in baseball all the time. We
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: want to know a little more about how it's computed,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: how teams are using it, what exactly it measures. And
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the Angels, of course, are 56-90 entering a weekend series
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: in Washington. Playoff drought has now reached 12 years, their
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: 11th consecutive losing season. New Warner's Stan Kroenke is expected
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to be in place by next spring. But the same
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: question persists. How far is this team from a playoff spot?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: And to put a number on that distance, we brought
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: in Eno, who has also written for Fangraphs, ESPN, Fox, MLB.com,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and SB Nation. And he is an expert on all
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: things war. I want to start by sort of what
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I call the dictionary definition of war. It quantifies a
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: player's total value by combining contributions from batting, base running, fielding,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and pitching, along with adjustments for position difficulty, lead context,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and replacement level performance. A replacement level player is a theoretical,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: readily available player, like a minor league call-up or a
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: bench player, who could fill in at minimal cost, typically
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: expected to produce a 2-94 winning percentage for a big
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: league team. Can you sort of put in layman's terms
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: what war is and how it is measured?
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: I think the easiest way to think about it is
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: it's just a way to put everything that a player
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: can do on the field into one number. I mean,
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: if you look at OPS, you're ignoring base running. You're
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: ignoring how they defend.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: And you can't compare....
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: The roster spot of a pitcher to a hitter. So you,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: you have a, you have a hard time thinking about
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: an entire roster. If you, you pick any one number,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: especially if it's hitting versus pitching. So how do you
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: compare the value of a pitcher in that slot to
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: a value of a hitter? How do you compare a
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: first baseman to a center fielder? That's what war is
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: trying to answer. You know, it's a framework and that's
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: why there are different wars. That's why there's baseball reference
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: war and fan graphs war. There's different wars and, Um,
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: because there's been slightly different decisions made about how that
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: framework is implemented. But I think it's solid as a
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: framework to think, how can I have a number that
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: does care about defense that does care about base running?
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: I think that's as, as old school as it gets,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: it's thinking about the player as a whole.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I know it's, it feels like a.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Scary new school number and you know, it, it, it
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: and sometimes it'll come up with answers. You're like, I
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: don't agree with this. Like, I don't think this player
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: is as good as this player, even though war says it,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: I get it. But I think the idea to try
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: and look at a player as it's as a whole
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: makes a lot of sense.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I think one thing I wanted to say, you know,
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: is one part of the rates and barrels podcast, excellent podcast.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: It's you and Derek van Ripper with some other guests, correct?
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we did the Angels today.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: We did an autopsy on the Angels.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: An autopsy already?
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Are you still alive?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: We will definitely have to tune into that.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: Buckle up. Okay, I remember, and I told this briefly,
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: and I'll make it quick, but when I was a
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: young player, let's say in my first year, 2011 or so,
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: I remember asking Tony Regan's general manager at the time,
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: what is this war stat?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, what is this?
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: And he kind of laughed and he said, huh, you know,
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: and I said, what's so funny? And he goes, all right,
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: you really want to know? And he printed out, let's
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: call it 10 pages. And I was like, what in
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: the world? And so this was the early days. There
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: was no way I said, this is obviously some way
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: to evaluate, but so it has obviously evolved. It's easier
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: to explain now. For clarity, F war is Van Graaff's war.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: And B-War is a baseball reference. Just wanted to make
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: sure people were aware of that. So my question is,
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: especially early on, nobody really, as players, you didn't go
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: around comparing wars with each other. So you really, you
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: know who was a star, you know who was more
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: of a role player. But, I mean, what does a
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: three-war player, for example, look like in today's game? Obviously,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: I do know, and if fans don't know, that is
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: a contributing player and a necessity on a good team.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: But at what point, two war, three war, do you
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: start to be an everyday regular contributor?
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the easiest to remember is two war.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Two war is like an average player. And, you know,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: maybe if you're the Yankees, you don't want to have
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: a ton of two war. But if you have a
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: cheaper guy who's going to be an average guy, you know,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: you'll do that. You know, a two war player Um,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: you know, just to have examples from this year, um,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: you know, they, these are guys that are back in
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: top 100 type guys, but, uh, uh, on the angels, uh,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: you've got, um, I don't know where I can't find
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: one right now. Uh, but, uh, you've got, uh, Nolan
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Arnauto is a two win player this year. You know,
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: Corey Seager has been hurt. So, you know, he's been
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: a two-win player so far this year. But like a
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: guy like Nick Gonzalez on the Pirates makes some contact,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: plays okay defense across a few different positions. That's like
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: kind of a prototypical two-win player, you know. So it's
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: a player that does a few things at a sort
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: of average level. Three wins is definitely a better player.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: A three-win player so far this year has been somebody
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: like Riley Green, Brian Reynolds on the Pirates, Kyle Schwarber's
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: been a three-win player.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: That's a little bit.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: We'll get into that.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: That's like the DH, and this is where people say, no,
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Kyle Schwarber's better than a three-win player.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: We can talk about that in a second, but Um,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: you know, Steven Kwan's a three-win player. Mike Trout's been
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: a three-win player this year. Um, and so four wins
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: is traditionally all-star, you know, that's where you start talking
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: about you're a top 30 player.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: In the league.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Um, you know, we haven't finished the season yet, but
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: four-win players so far this year, um, you know, James Wood,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: Jackson Churio, uh, Sedan Rafaela, um, Corbin Carroll, those have
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: been four-win players so far this year. And 10 wins
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: is legendary. That's MVP. Mike Trout had, I think, three
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: 10-win seasons. Aaron Judge has had 10-win seasons. Babe Ruth,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Barry Bonds. 10 wins is extraordinary. And we have one
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: 10-win player this year, and it's Pete Crowe-Armstrong.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Future NL MVP.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: You know, if I'm a fan who still thinks in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: terms of batting average, RBIs, ERA, OPS, why should I
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: care about this one number?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's what I said before.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: It's just that, you know, defense matters, you know, and
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I think that's kind of old school to say, you know,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: it's like, you know, you can't just, it's not a
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: fancy team. You can't just get a guy out there
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: and hit for a good average. And, you know, you
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: can't play Kyle Schwarber at shortstop, you know, like as
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: good as he is, you don't want to play Kyle
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Schwarber at shortstop. So, you know, it does, it does matter.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: Another way, if we want a statistical argument for why
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: it is, why it matters, it is the one number
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: that is best correlated to team success. So if you
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: add up all the wars on a, on a team,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: you you actually predict team success better than any other
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: number um and even better than sort of trying to
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: add numbers together the genius of war is that it
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: takes what players do and it reduces them to runs
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: so you if you can kind of compare you know
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: oh this guy's arm is this good this guy's arm
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: is this good this guy's arm is this good and
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: you get them all you compare it and you convert
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: it to runs 10 runs equals a win so that's
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: how you can kind of you start to add up
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: okay these are his base running runs. These are his
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: arm runs. These are his glove runs. These are his
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: batting runs. You add it all.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Together and that's how you get wins.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: And I think it's, it's, it's important to consider the
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: entirety of a player as good as Kyle Schwarber is.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: He does not add value on the defensive side. And
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: that does matter.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong here.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Um, as far from what I understand, war is used
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: heavily in, uh, player evaluations, for trades, for arbitration, for
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: free agency, maybe not so much in the day-to-day game preparation, scouting,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: and all those things. When and sort of why did
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: war become this common language that so many front offices
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: are speaking now?
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: I think there was, you know, I got my start
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: on Fangraphs, and there's another site called Baseball Perspectives. There
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: are these sites that have produced GMs. and produced like
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: literally there have been analysts and team officials that have
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: come out of these sites. Haim Bloom is a former
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: writer for baseball prospectus, you know, um, you know, there's, uh,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: there's all sorts of other examples. Click who might be, uh,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: the next, uh, uh, Oakland, it's not Oakland. The next A's, uh, GM, um,
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: he was a, was a writer for baseball prospectus. There's
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: a bunch of guys, Dave Cameron, who was my boss
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: at fan graphs is high up with the Mariners. So,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: I think there was a lot of these bloggers, these writers,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: these analysts that came out in the public space. They
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: looked at these numbers and said, oh, well, these are
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: really valuable. And they created these frameworks where efficiency does
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: matter because every GM gets some number.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: We don't know what that number is on the outside, but.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Every GM gets some number where they say, you've got
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: $ 200 million.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: To spend this year. So they have to be efficient
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: with that $ 200 million.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: And It sounds really basic to say it, but like
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: they on some level have to squeeze as many wins
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: into that 200 million as they can. And so wins
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: above replacement came this way to be like, okay, I'm
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: paying this guy 5 million for this many wins and
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: this guy 10 million for this many wins. And it
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: became an efficiency number that helped explain how general managers work.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: And if you look at free agency, you'll see they,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: they end up paying for wins. They pay for wins
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: in a predictable manner. And when you look at the
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: contracts that are signed in the end, they are paid
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: out due to projected wins above replacement.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: All right, we're going to take a quick break for
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. And when we come back,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: we'll have more War Talk.
• 11:57
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• 12:22
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• 12:25
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• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And welcome back to Halo Territory with, you know, Saris
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: of The Athletic, Mark Trumbo, and Mike DiGiovanna.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, you opened the door, so I'm going
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: to kick it wide open. Here's an example. Ex-catcher Caleb Joseph.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: He's doing TV and radio for Sportsnet. He used to
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: brag to me about his war, and the guy had
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: zero stakes an entire season.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Caleb. But he was a guest on one of
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: our first shows.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: And he's telling me about his lofty war, and I'm
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: sitting there like, what the hell?
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: You know, you can't hit.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, but my question is, is piggybacking what you
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: were saying about Schwarber and certain positions. It's my assumption
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: that they're the up, up the middle premium defensive positions
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: are going to be rewarded more than the first baseman
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: who doesn't steal bases, doesn't take the extra base, maybe
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: limited defensively. Can you explain, you know, as briefly as
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: you can, like why this is a thing? I understand
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: it conceptually why you would reward a shortstop without standing
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: range more than a, A stiff, but maybe you can
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: just explain a little bit.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the controversial thing is that you,
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: you know, for a DH, you.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Actually subtract value from the player.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: So, you know, in terms of just his batting and
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: his base running, you know, he should be maybe a
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: five-win player. but then you actually subtract fielding value from
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: Kyle Schwarber. And that might be the thing that offends
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: people so much, right? Because you're like, how could he
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: be a subtraction?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: He is a zero. He's not on the field. He's
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a designated hitter.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: It comes from just comparing player values in the past
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: and comparing how even people hit when they're at shortstop
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: and when they're at different positions. Um, it comes from comparing, um,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: you know, just how teams do with certain defenders at
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: certain places. So it is a statistical, a statistical construct,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: but I will say to you that this is probably
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: the weakest part of, uh, of war and could be
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: the thing that's most examined. I have a colleague that
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: did look at those, uh, adjustments, those positional adjustments. Um,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: And he thought that they were too positive for shortstops
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: and too negative for first base and DH types. And
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: that's why I'm sort of careful. I'm a Hall of
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Fame voter. Another way of putting this, war is kind
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: of a living construct.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: It is going to change.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: And I don't think that takes away from its value.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Here's a story.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Yachty Molina, right? Yachty Molina did not.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Have enough money.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Wins above replacement to be a Hall of Famer by
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: most sort of benchmarks. He wasn't a 50-win player. That's
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: a Hall of Famer, right? Well, then we discovered framing.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: And we looked through framing. We put that into war.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Yachty Molina, 52 wins, Hall of Famer. What have St.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Louis fans been telling us this whole time?
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: He's a Hall of Famer. So, you know, when.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: when people complain about, you know, oh, this player, you know,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: is being penalized too much. I want to say to them,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: there's some truth in what you're saying. And this is
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: something that can be examined and it might change in
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: the future. And I don't think it invalidates the whole enterprise.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: It's just that this is where we're at now, you know?
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: And so if you want to vote for Kyle Schwarber
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: for MVP, even though he's missing a win or two,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I would say do it, you know, because this is
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: a living stat that's going to change over time. And
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: you may end up being right in the long run.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: We shouldn't all be handing out awards and hall of
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: fames just on wins above replacement. That doesn't make sense
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: because of my Yachty Molina example, you know, like.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: That's a good, maybe things we discover in the future. Yeah.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Let's turn a little more toward team war here. Here's
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: a picture we want to paint. A team that contends
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: in October, not necessarily a 100-win juggernaut, just a legitimate
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: playoff club usually ends up with a combined team war
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: in the upper 30s, maybe a little higher, sometimes 40s
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: if they're a true World Series contender.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Is that accurate? Is that the right bar we're setting here? Yeah, yeah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: And I think people stumble on this idea of replacement,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: you know, and I get it because it's like a
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: theoretical construct as well. But I will tell you this.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Just look at the history of baseball. The worst teams
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: in baseball ever still won 40 games.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: So we know that the.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Baseline is not zero wins. there's never been a team
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: that has won zero games. So that's why Winslow Replacement said,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: you know, even if you just took whatever was available
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: from college or, you know, from the indie leagues or
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: just minor league free agents, if you just put that
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: worst team together, they'd still win about 40 games. The
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: White Sox just proved that a couple of years ago that,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: you know, you'll still win 40 games. So the baseline
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: is around 47 wins. Um, the, the, the White Sox
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: actually set a record for negative wins of a replacement
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: as a team.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Uh, that year.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Um, so they were, they were under replacement. So replacements
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: around 47 wins. And so if you think about it,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: you add 40 to 47, you get 87, you get.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Basically a 90 win team. And that's the really good teams.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And then if you add.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: 30 to it, you get 87, you're talking about a
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: wildcard team, right? That's, that's exactly where the wildcard teams are.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: So that's why wins well placement is kind of an
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: elegant construct. Yes, there are parts that are put together.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: And then one last thing is I hear all the time, well,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: it's made up. I will tell you, if you've ever
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: looked at the definition of RBI, all stats.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Are made up.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: And like, what does an RBI tell me? Oh, there
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: can't be two. It can't be a fielder's choice. It
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: can't be this.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: It can't be that. It can't be the guy here. Anyway, sorry.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for our YouTube viewers, the Dodgers, for instance, this
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: is a couple days old, but a 46.5 team war.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: The Brewers at 44.5, the Cubs at 34.8, and as
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: a comparison.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: The angels are at 24.5 i mean.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: It tells the right picture right yeah pretty much.
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: That's uh i don't know it doesn't seem like a
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: uh win total in the mid to upper 30s is astronomical.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: And then you look at the angels and they're 10
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: full wins at least, uh, apart from that. So they,
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: the picture I think we were really trying to paint
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: is that they're, they're really not, I mean, the on-field
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: record speaks for itself, but, uh, moving forward, they're going
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: to have to find a way to narrow this gap
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: and find a lot more contributing players. I mean, the
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: 45 war teams that we just saw the chart, that's
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: the Dodgers, that's the Brewers. Um, And we'll see in
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: the postseason, as it's played out recently, the big spending
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: teams have done pretty well. But when you're looking at
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: a 45-war team, that's a complete package team. You're not
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: likely going to see any huge weaknesses, if I'm not mistaken.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: Strong bullpen, good offense, great defense, those types of things.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Great starting pitching.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: I think the Brewers have to be the model for
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: the Angels going forward. Not that they won't spend. But,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: you know, theoretically, at least if you build a Brewers
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: model and then spend a little on top of it, like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: why not? That sounds like a good plan. And the
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Brewers model to some extent has been just make sure
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: that everybody who comes up to the big leagues is
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: a competent defender. In fact, you know, the Cardinals have
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: been kind of a, they're.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Not the Brewers.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: They're not like a, not thought of as a forward
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: thinking organization, but the Cardinals, the Cardinals way has always been,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: These guys can man their position.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: They're good defensively. They put together good at-bats. What do
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: the Brewers do? They walk.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: They don't strike out that much. They spray the ball.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: They're not even a pull-air team or whatever. Put the
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: ball in play all around the ballpark. Let the ball travel.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Put the ball in play the other way. But that's
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: a great floor. And so what you create is you
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: have all these guys that come in, and your worst
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: player is this guy who plays– Joey Ortiz, I'm not
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: trying to pick on him. He's not one of their
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: best players. He's maybe one of their worst players. He's
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: a two-win player. See, that's the thing. He plays good defense.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: He takes a walk. He goes the other way. And
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: he's actually a really great defender. So when your worst
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: player looks like that, that's when you're like, oh, okay,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: I get it. Everybody comes up. They can play good defense.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: They can put together a good at-bat. And then some
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: of those guys... add to that. The guardians do this
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: every year. Some of those guys add power. Some of
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: those guys are better, or we have some money and
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: we add some free agents on top of that, that
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: are better than those guys in some ways.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: And that's, that's the, really the model.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: So I think that's really the problem that the angels
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: have had, uh, over the last few years and under
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Artie Moreno has been, they've not really paid as much
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: attention to player development. Now play like, you know, during
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: COVID they just fired, they fired all their coaches. Like
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: they didn't pay anybody, you know, and they let basically
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: let all their minor leaguers go. So I feel like,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: you know, this is a big thing that they have
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: to focus on going forward is improving their processes in
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: the minor leagues, their coaching in the minor leagues, their
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: data and tech in the minor leagues.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: And improving that all the way up. You've seen the
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: angels start.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: The pitching staff has gotten better over the last couple
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: of weeks because just by paying a little bit more
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: attention to the numbers and being a little bit more,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: having the tech be involved a little bit more. So
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I think that's the sort of thing that needs to
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: happen throughout the organization.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's zero in on the Angels now that we
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: have them on our radar. 56 and 90. This is,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and that Brewers is a great example or a great
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: comparison because I think where the Angels have really failed,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you know, they have a couple of star players they
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: have in the past few years. Some of these players
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: on the margins, they're just not getting contributions from So
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: as we mentioned, Reid Dittmer is having an outstanding year.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I believe this was before his start in Boston the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: other day, but at a 4.2. Zach Netto, best position
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: player right now at a 3.0. Mike Trout is showing
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: that when he's out there and healthy, as he has
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: been this year, he's a contributor. And Walbert Urania, the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: rookie pitcher, at a 2.1. And then Wade Meckler, who
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: really from a games played standpoint at 1.8, is actually
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: a pretty solid contributor. And there's just not a lot
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: of these 2.0 guys, as Eno is mentioning, that I think.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Really add to the depth of the team.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Eno, is this that big of a hole for the
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Angels to overcome, to jump into playoff contention?
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Well, their prospects are ranked about league average by Baseball
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: America as a group. But one thing that happens when
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: I look at their list of prospects is that I'm
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: not sure who's ready to kind of, be that guy
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: right away. There's some guys like Hayden Alvarez, who's 19
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: years old, that have a lot of promise, but I
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: don't know how close they are. You know, Claussen's, you know,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: had some command issues, but I like some of what
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: we've seen this year.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I think he's improved there.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: Nelson Rada can be, I think, at least a defensive
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: center fielder that can help soon. But, you know, when
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: you look at Rada, Guzman, Christian Moore, you know, that's
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: where I want some more out of the coaching process
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: and you know, the, the, the MO for the angels
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: has been drafted and put them in the major leagues. Um,
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: and I think that's hurt them a little bit. So
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: there's a little bit of a missing gap there where
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: you don't have a ton of, uh, major league ready
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: prospects and maybe they can do that to their advantage.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I know it'd be difficult to be a fan. Um,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: it probably is difficult to be an angels fan, um, Um,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: you know, if I was advising the next person taking over,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I would consider trading down to the studs, you know,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: because you just need to infuse that minor league, uh,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: that minor league organization with talent and be ready to
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: kind of pounce the next time that group is ready
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: to go. And I just don't see that like, oh,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: they've got these three guys coming up, ready to go.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: And the core.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Is not a one that like, I think is going
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: to be around long enough to, to do this transition.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: So that would be my advice, but I don't know, maybe,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: you know, the, the rich role, he just wrote a
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: piece for us that at the athletic, that was like
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: windows are a mirage and, you.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Know, look at teams like the white socks. Were they
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: supposed to be in the window this year? They were terrible.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: They were supposed to be rebuilding this year, you know?
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: So, Maybe the question is, you know, how can I
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: just improve my processes in the minor leagues while doing
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: whatever I can at the major leagues? And just maybe
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: I don't buy the biggest free agents, but I buy
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: a bunch of little interesting free agents. Munataka Murakami for
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: the White Sox is a great free agent signing for them. So,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe I'm wrong on that one. But, you know,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: there are clearly some nice players on this team. And,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: you know, you can also look at the Nationals and say, hey,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: if we just improve our game time, like how ready
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: we are for games, how we prepare for games, how
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: we use these high-end pitching machines like the Traject, how
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: we do all these things, the Nationals got a lot
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: better without changing much of their personnel and doing much
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: more about how they work, how they prepare for every game.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: So maybe you just do that, you work on the
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: minor leagues, and you just inch forward.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: That could be another way forward.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: I think that's great. I think the Nationals might want
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: to find a way to save a few more games, too.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: We were talking about this.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: Blown somewhere near 38, unless that was not accurate. But
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: that is crushing, if you want to know, from a
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: player's perspective. You start to just feel like there's no
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: confidence going. And the Angels have been a team this
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: year with very huge bullpen woes. I believe what Ben
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Joyce just overtook the saves lead with five.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I think he tied or he either tied Jordan Romano
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: and Ryan Zephyrjohn or he moved one ahead of him.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Just look around.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: The division though. And I would say, yes, the Mariners
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: have a great bullpen. And the Astros have one great.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: It's not great for bullpens. So maybe it's right for
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: the opening. And I would say this bullpen is, is
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: the third best bullpen in the division as it is
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And that's without any work on it.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: It's better in Sacramento or wherever they are.
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. That is terrible. Yeah.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: That is an awful bullpen. So, you know, I like Joyce.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: I think his health is big. I like Sammy Natera.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: I think they've got, they've got a couple of guys
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: in there. So they're, they're, they're in a better place
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: than they could be. So maybe that's an argument for,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: for saying, hey, let's just try to compete next year.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Let's keep on trying to compete. I think what happened
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: with the Nationals was they expected to be in a rebuild.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: They didn't expect to be this good.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: And so that's a rebuilding bullpen. That's like a bullpen
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: where we're just going to put some guys in there
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: and see.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: What we got. And that actually blew up on them, right?
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Because they ended up being good enough to have leads
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: and not good enough to save them.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: I think if you're all right, we've covered the war time.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: They're going to have to find a way to get better.
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: And I do agree with you. uh player development for
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: me is is just enormous um and guys like nolan
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: uh shawn well are going to need to find a
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: way to probably start inching uh for a big league
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: regular towards two and a half wins three wins um
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: and he's a guy that we've talked about quite a
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: bit how's it going to fit long term uh but
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: i want to talk about the starting pitching and your
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: rankings of the top 100 starting pitchers I have at
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: least the Angels in front of me. You have Reed
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: Detmers at 31 and Walbert Urania at 76. Grayson Rodriguez
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: is also there as is Clawson. I think for Angel
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: fans seeing at least Reed and Walbert in their respective rankings,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: they might wonder why so low. And maybe I think
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: if you could piggyback a little bit on stuff, plus
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: why that factored into where they are.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, actually, I think I might have been
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit low on Urania. I think that is
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: a little bit low.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: And it actually hurts me a little bit because I
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: was the high man coming out of spring training. Robert
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Urania had one of the best stuff pluses in spring training.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: And I really thought that, you know, this high velocity,
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: great changeup would work. I guess when I watch him now,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: I'm a little bit worried about the command. Maybe not
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: throwing the sweeper as much will help him because he
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: really can't command that pitch. The walk rate is a
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: little bit high for him. And one of the most
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: powerful predictive numbers is strikeout minus walk rate. And his
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: is below average, surprisingly. But that might be because he's
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: a great ground ball guy. Maybe he's the next Soriano.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Maybe he's in that Fromber mode where he's going to
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: have a 60% ground ball. There's a lot of ways
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: forward for him. I saw a weird little power slider
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: from Urania recently that was like a, like almost a
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: gyro slider. I saw just a couple of them to
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Nate Lowe the other day that I said, that is
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: his pitch. That's what I want to see. So I
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: think there could be one pitch that really unlocks Urania,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: but as he is, he has a below average strikeout
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: minus walk rate. Um, he has his projections are for
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: mid four ZRA.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, great.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Fine for them. Great that he's working out. And I
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: think next year I'll have even more shares. Cause I think,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: you know, a little bit of a tweak could.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Go a long way. Detmers.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I just, um, I've always been a fan. I had
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: maybe erroneously thought that I had seen some fatigue creeping in.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: He had been so great for so long and he
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: only threw 63 innings last year. He's up to 168
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: this year. I thought that I saw some velo droppage
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: and some stuff droppage.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe I was wrong.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Those rankings are supposed to be forward looking. So, you know,
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: that's the other part of this is I'm trying to
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: project the future. I really like Detmers. I really like Urania. So,
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: you know, next year I would expect them to be
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: higher in both of those rankings to be higher.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Well, let's close the show with this question. You know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: you mentioned the White Sox, another great example. Didn't they
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: lose 100 last year? And now they're in playoff contention.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: How can a team like the Angels, where can they
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: make up, you know, five to 10 war, cumulative war,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: And their roster, like, where are the best places to
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: get some of this value that they have clearly been
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: unable to tap?
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: Are we also kind of asking, can you buy it
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: on the free agent?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: Can you buy war? That's a good question. How should
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: they attempt to supplement this?
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the things that's really interesting is that
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: war costs $ 12 million. One win costs $ 12 million on
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: the free agent market. That's why player development is so
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: important because if you do the math, if you want
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: to create a 90-win team, you're talking about a $ 700
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: million payroll. So you really want to have guys that
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: you develop. And I think the one thing I would
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: look at is look at how many players negative war
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: players that they had this year. Jorge Soler and Logan
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Ohapi were minus almost a full win by themselves. Paris,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Jamer Candelario, Juan Mankata. So they need to have fewer
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: minus guys. And so that's part of the picture. Bringing
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: the floor up is part of it. And then you
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: look at their payroll page and what they could be
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: looking at next year. It is actually a pretty clean slate.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: $ 79 million is their luxury tax number before adding in
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: the arbitration guys. There's some guys that are going to
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: be expensive. Detmers is going to be expensive in arbitration.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: They may decide to cut ties with Josh Lowe. So
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: that'll be an interesting decision because he will be a five,
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: $ 6 million player next year.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: So that'll be an interesting decision. But if you add
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: up all the ARB.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Guys, they probably against, you know, past teams could have 50,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: $ 60 million to spend. And I would look to see,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: you know, if you could, you know, I think that's,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: they need another bat, you know, And the nice thing
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: is that there is some place where they can put it.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be– it's not like you look
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: at the Angels and you say, it has to be
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: a center fielder or it has to be this. You
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: can move some guys around. I think I would look
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: at third base, second base.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Just somebody on the infield.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: There's an interesting player, Jazz Chisholm, is probably going to
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: be on a short-term deal. uh, that, uh, that, you know,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: maybe a high average annual value. That might be an
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: interesting way to infuse some excitement, some power on the infield.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: His defensive numbers have been good. Um, and you don't
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: have that long-term, uh, you know, commitment in terms of money. Um,
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: you know, then I would add some depth to the
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: pitching staff. I think Detmers and Urania at the top
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: is pretty good. Rodriguez is a good middle guy. I
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: would be spending on in that group where you can
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: get some veterans, we were just talking about like Shane
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Bieber is going to be like a one in 15 guy,
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: you know, you know, take some, take some shots there
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: where if Shane Bieber is healthy and gives you 160
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: innings and you've got Detmers, Bieber, Urania, now you've got
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: a staff. And if jazz finally, you know, he wanted
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: to go 50, 50 this year. What if he goes 30,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: 30 and you, you have like Neto and jazz up
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: the middle, you got 60, 60 up the middle or something.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Right. That's where you start to dream and be like, Yes,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of swag too. And it's within their resources.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: It's possible.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Get a good hitter, buy some depth, and at the
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: same time, if you don't spend all the money you have,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: spend it on coaches and data and tech in the
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: minor leagues.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: They would definitely lead baseball in up-the-middle war swag if
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: they got Chaz at second.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Swag plus. Swag plus. A new stat developed right here
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: on Halo territory. Well, you know, Saris.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Really, really appreciate your input and your insight today. I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: want to thank you for joining us. Baseball's own Secretary
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: of War, Mark Trumbo. Thanks for joining us as always.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Please like and subscribe and we will see you next
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: time on Halo Territory.