Latest / The You Project / #1960 Do You Have Beliefs Or Do Beliefs Have You? - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#1960 Do You Have Beliefs Or Do Beliefs Have You? - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: O good are you bloody champions? It's Bobby, It's Roberts,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's Craig, Anthony harpertzasit you. It's the U Project.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Bobby high mate, Hello, Craig, how are you going.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: Harm On?
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I said, I said high energy? I said high energy.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Come in, come in with something ready, Hi Bobby.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Hey Craig. I'm standing up inside myself right now. You can't.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: My voice is fairly subdued, but inside my own internal experience,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I'm bubbling with enthusiasm.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: That's amazing. Uh, how are you? How's your week? Bean?
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Or how's your foot? What a week? Now? We're weekly?
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: How's your week? Bean?
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  Speaker 2: It's been it's been a roller coaster ride. It's been
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  Speaker 2: a tumultuous navigation through a terrifying storm. But on that
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  Speaker 2: it's been okay, yours.
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  Speaker 3: It's been good.
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  Speaker 1: It's been busy, uh speaking bit of corporate stuff, but
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  Speaker 1: a you know, all the normal stuff, all the Craig
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and Bobby stuff, the stuff that we do. Let's not
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: bore everyone, but I was gonna ask you in the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: middle of the tumult in the middle of the chaos,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the peaks and troughs, you know,
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  Speaker 1: you being the educator and the inspirer and the you know,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the connector what's your go to? Is there a go
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: to for you when you feel a bit shit or
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: stressed that kind of puts you in a better place.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, single malt whiskey? Why do you ask?
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Is that is that? That's not bad? Though? Right?
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: I mean that is? Is that true for you?
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Now? The single malt is definitely the way to go.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Don't don't if you're gonna do whiskey, don't do the
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  Speaker 2: cheap shit.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: But no, it's an opportunity. I give you an opportunity
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  Speaker 1: to have a grown up conversation.
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  Speaker 2: Come on, now, it's not true. Actually it's more bourbon,
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  Speaker 2: which is a form of whiskey.
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  Speaker 3: But all right, now we're getting somewhere. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of the time, it's having people around you
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  Speaker 2: that you can collaborate with. So one thing that has
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  Speaker 2: really helped me this week, and I think it's helped
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  Speaker 2: my colleague as well as I have somebody at work
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  Speaker 2: who a couple of people who's a really great friend
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  Speaker 2: but also an incredible thought partner. And by incredible thought partner,
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  Speaker 2: I don't mean that we're like minded. We aren't our vision,
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  Speaker 2: but we disagree on just about everything, but there's so
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  Speaker 2: much psychological safety there because we know at any given
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  Speaker 2: moment we support each other completely. So it's okay to
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  Speaker 2: like take it to the mattresses and have it out
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: over issues that we're both passionate about. And she'll challenge
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: me on things, and I'll get on a conversation with
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  Speaker 2: her and I'll feel strongly one way, and by the
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  Speaker 2: end of the conversation, I'll realize I might not be
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  Speaker 2: right about half of the ideas that I had coming
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  Speaker 2: into this meeting. And I just love it because it's
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: not fighting for the sake of fighting. We don't ever
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  Speaker 2: get into an argument about who's right. It's about what's
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  Speaker 2: right and the best idea wins. I find that invigorating.
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  Speaker 2: I find that cathartic supportive, and you know, a lot
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  Speaker 2: of times we're there to support each other through through
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  Speaker 2: the ebbs and flows, and knowing that somebody is in
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  Speaker 2: your corner, that that level of connection, I think, you know,
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  Speaker 2: it's important.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.
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  Speaker 1: Give me the Bobby definition, not the Google or the
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Dictionary definition. Give me the Bobby definition of psychological safety.
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  Speaker 2: Psychological safety is when you know that your inner thoughts
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  Speaker 2: and opinions are invited. They're welcomed. In some environments, the
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  Speaker 2: unpopular and divergent opinion isn't just welcomed, it's demanded. I
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  Speaker 2: think we've discussed it on this podcast. Like one great
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  Speaker 2: example that is Project Aristotle conducted by Google when they
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  Speaker 2: wanted to know who would the top performing teams, which
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: teams were the best of the best and the absolute
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  Speaker 2: most productive throughout the entire organization. And what they found
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  Speaker 2: is the number one contributing factor is psychological safety. And
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  Speaker 2: when people think about psychological safety, they think it's warm
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  Speaker 2: and fuzzy, but no, it's if the entire team believes
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  Speaker 2: something strongly and you see it differently, not only will
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  Speaker 2: there not be any retribution for you voicing that divergent opinion,
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  Speaker 2: but it's what's expected. And if there's a conflict, that
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  Speaker 2: conflict is engaged in within an environment of trust and
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  Speaker 2: it's celebrated. So Google, when they started launching this study,
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  Speaker 2: the assumption was the most productive teams have the most
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  Speaker 2: intelligent people working within them. But everybody at Google is
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  Speaker 2: highly intelligent. Sure, some annoyingly so, but it wasn't It
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  Speaker 2: wasn't about who was on the team or what skills
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  Speaker 2: they possessed. It was mostly about how that team communicated
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  Speaker 2: with one another. It was the interpersonal dynamics. And the
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  Speaker 2: reason why this is important because psychological safety gives rise
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  Speaker 2: to vulnerability where it's like, Okay, I know what you're saying, Craig,
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  Speaker 2: and I understand it. Let me get this straight. What's
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  Speaker 2: important to you is A B and SA. And what
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  Speaker 2: I also see in the strength of your argument is
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  Speaker 2: amb I see it quite differently. And I don't think
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  Speaker 2: that we necessarily have all the resources or I don't
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  Speaker 2: think I'm the very best person for this role in
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  Speaker 2: the project. I think I'd be more suited for this.
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  Speaker 2: That's an example of vulnerability and that type of dynamic
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  Speaker 2: drize performance.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, thank you. That's good. As you and
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  Speaker 1: I were token just before. I just got back from
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  Speaker 1: doing a speaking gig, and you know, trying to do
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  Speaker 1: trying to in the middle of two hundred people with
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  Speaker 1: their own backgrounds and personalities and you know, filters, and
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  Speaker 1: you know, you're trying to create optimal connection with people
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  Speaker 1: who are not the same who don't necessarily have the
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  Speaker 1: same thinking or beliefs or background or you know, values
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  Speaker 1: or you know, I'm sure there's some overlap and some
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  Speaker 1: consistency and convergence, but there's also divergence. And but the
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  Speaker 1: thing is you're one person sharing one message and trying
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  Speaker 1: to in the middle of that, in the middle of
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  Speaker 1: that kind of almost demonstration of IQ kind of where
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  Speaker 1: you're sharing sometimes what can be complicated or high level
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  Speaker 1: concepts or information or whatever. But really what matters more
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  Speaker 1: is my social intelligence, my emotional intelligence, my adaptability quotient. Like,
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  Speaker 1: how can I my AQ, EQ, SQ and IQ rite
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  Speaker 1: all the cues?
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  Speaker 2: How do I?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I know some things that maybe some people
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  Speaker 1: in the room or most people in the room don't
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  Speaker 1: know because of where I've been and where they've been,
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  Speaker 1: But then how do I share this stuff in a
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  Speaker 1: way that isn't confusing or cognitively unaccessible for them or.
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  Speaker 3: What could be seen as being a.
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  Speaker 1: Display of assumed superiority or arrogance or something like Intelligence
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  Speaker 1: is such a spectrum.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's really hard to have a productive, dynamic
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  Speaker 2: conversation when none of the party is involved or speaking
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  Speaker 2: the same language. It kind of creates a little bit
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  Speaker 2: of a barrier. And I think, you know, whenever you
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  Speaker 2: get up in front of an audience. It's a couple
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  Speaker 2: of questions people are asking and you know they're not
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  Speaker 2: asking this out loud, well sometimes they are, but in
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  Speaker 2: their head they're asking, you know, why should I listen
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  Speaker 2: to you so? And you've got to be able to
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: answer those questions. And this comes up a lot in work.
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  Speaker 2: Where you can have the most credible information in the world,
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  Speaker 2: you can have an empirical based model. If you're not
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  Speaker 2: communicating in a way with people that want you're safe,
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  Speaker 2: and by safe, I don't mean you're not challenging them,
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  Speaker 2: you know, once there's trust there. I think you know,
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  Speaker 2: people show up to events, how people show up to
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  Speaker 2: conversations over dinner because they want to be challenged. They
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  Speaker 2: want to be confronted, not in a judgmental way, but
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  Speaker 2: in a collaborative way. But first, I have to trust
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  Speaker 2: what your intentions are. I have to know that you're
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  Speaker 2: trying to take me on a journey where at the
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  Speaker 2: end of it I'll be better off than I was
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  Speaker 2: when we first took our first steps. I think that's critical,
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  Speaker 2: you know, and.
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  Speaker 1: But also what is critical for the the other person
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  Speaker 1: is realizing that, oh I'm missing the mark I'm fucking
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  Speaker 1: way off here, Like this is not connecting at all.
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  Speaker 1: Like even when you just said then, which I completely
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  Speaker 1: you know, I understand you said empirically based model. I'm like,
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  Speaker 1: half my audience are like, I don't know what that is,
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  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like just that one term.
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  Speaker 1: Half my audience are like fine, half alike, And that's
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  Speaker 1: no insult at all. That's just like people who aren't
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  Speaker 1: in that world of you know, empirical research and writing
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  Speaker 1: and data and you know, yeah, it's like that's the
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  Speaker 1: thing is like, how do I say that in a way,
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  Speaker 1: Because the people that I'm talking to a lot not
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  Speaker 1: like me, not better or worse, but they're not like me.
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  Speaker 3: Most of them. They don't think like me.
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  Speaker 1: And so trying to talk to someone that isn't like you,
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  Speaker 1: that doesn't think like you, that doesn't have necessarily your
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  Speaker 1: insights or language or vocab, like I think that's for me,
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  Speaker 1: that is like a really in the moment test of intelligence.
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  Speaker 2: I think that comes from stuff that we were talking
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  Speaker 2: about earlier. Being able to show up and be present,
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  Speaker 2: and yeah, I don't always do that as well as
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  Speaker 2: I do at other times, but it's showing up with
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  Speaker 2: a level of presence that you can listen to your
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  Speaker 2: audience because even when nobody's speaking, they are communicating, and
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  Speaker 2: you could feel what's being communicated. And if you can
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  Speaker 2: even intuitively receive that and adapt to it. And if
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: you could speak multiple languages. I'm not meaning like you
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  Speaker 2: rock up and you're speaking you know, German, Dutch and
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: French and the same seminar, although that would be kind
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  Speaker 2: of cool to watch. I mean, for all those people
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  Speaker 2: out in the audience, you're not speaking linearly. You're using
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: different descriptions, you're using stories, you're using facts, you're using analogies.
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  Speaker 2: You're just touching upon the learning styles and the level
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: of engagement that most resonates with a majority of people
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: in the audience. That's why it drives me nuts when
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  Speaker 2: a conference organizer, especially when you read your evails and
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: they loved the presentation, the audience got something out of it,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: and they'll say, yes, it would be great if you
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  Speaker 2: didn't tell those stories and you just gave takeaways. Great,
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  Speaker 2: And I'm going to lose fifty percent of the audience
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  Speaker 2: that I would have had. Oh and by the way,
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  Speaker 2: they're not going to be able to imaginably project themselves
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  Speaker 2: into the protagonists of the story and in a safe, safe,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: but challenging environment, go through the imagintive process of seeing
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  Speaker 2: themselves taking action in the context of the presentation and
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  Speaker 2: what you're trying to tell them. And the chance that
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  Speaker 2: people will actually walk out of there and implement those
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  Speaker 2: takeaways are slim to none. As a matter of fact,
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  Speaker 2: probably ninety seven percent won't.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean, I'm with you, and it's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: no offense to any would be a valuator or or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: But when people who don't do the job that you
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: do critique the job that you do while they don't
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  Speaker 1: do it and haven't done it and maybe you're not
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: good at it, I understand. But it's kind of Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: It's like me evaluating someone's dance performance. I'm like, fuck,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not the guy because I don't have the knowledge,
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  Speaker 1: I don't have the skill, I don't have the experience,
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  Speaker 1: I don't do that, So getting an evaluation on that
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  Speaker 1: from me is probably not valuable.
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  Speaker 3: And I mean, at the same.
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  Speaker 1: Time, we don't want to be precious, you know, we
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  Speaker 1: want to.
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  Speaker 3: Take feedback on board.
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  Speaker 1: But you and me anyway, you know, maybe we're dinosaurs,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm all for stories. I'm all for humor because
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  Speaker 1: people connect with humor and stories people don't connect typically
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  Speaker 1: with data, with charts, with graphs, you know, And so
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  Speaker 1: that that's you know, that's I'm always like, what's the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: thing that I want to teach or the idea that
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I want to share or the strategy that I want
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to download? And then I think, more importantly, what's a
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: story that I have about that? How can I tell
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: a story about that idea or that process or that
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  Speaker 1: bit of wisdom that I didn't create? How do I
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: tell a story about that? Because you're right, you know,
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  Speaker 1: when people see themselves in that story, now that idea
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  Speaker 1: becomes so much more powerful and more likely to be
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  Speaker 1: you know, activated.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's the essence of storytelling, isn't it. The mean character,
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  Speaker 2: the hero of your story is the person sitting in
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  Speaker 2: the audience, and they are, at some level, not every
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: single one, but most of them are imagining themselves going
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  Speaker 2: through the same journey as the protagonist in your story
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  Speaker 2: and facing those trials, those challenges, overcoming them and transforming
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  Speaker 2: into who are what they ultimately want to be. And
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  Speaker 2: that's so powerful, which is why I think every culture,
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  Speaker 2: every religion, every organization is completely built on the stories
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  Speaker 2: that embody it. And then I can get into the
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: neurobiology about why stories work so well. And we could
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: spend like five six hours on this podcast. Don't worry,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: we won't for anyone who's getting a little bit nervous.
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  Speaker 2: But storytelling is probably the most pervasive and deeply effective
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: medium of teaching.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. All right, So I've got an idea,
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  Speaker 1: and this is what I want to do. Yeah, I
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: know that down the hatches steady on for the rest
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: of the podcast. I want to do this. I'm gonna
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: so let me set it up. So I'm in the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: middle of preparing for a four day, four night, five
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: day retreat that I'm going to run, and over the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: course of the retreat, I want to unpack one hundred ideas,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: one hundred ideas, one hundred important messages, one hundred questions.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: You know, it might be a bit less, it might
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: be a bit more, but I'm in the middle of like,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: just you know, here's an idea that I think we
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: should think about, or here's a truth that well, it
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: appears to be a truth. There's a lot of evidence
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: for it. Let's unpack that, or here's maybe a question
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that might open the door on a lot of things
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: for you, or so, what I want to do is
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I want to share with you some of these This
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: is very much in its infancy. It's very much early stages,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: work in progress. And I'm probably being cheeky because maybe
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I want to hear what you think and maybe that
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: will add to my overall kind of bank of content.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: But I'm just going to share a thought or an
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: idea with you, and then I want you to riff
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: on it, share your thoughts and ideas. Feel free to disagree, agree,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: expand whatever, and I want you to try to keep it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: This is going to be the hard bit for you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: to three minutes, because I want to try and get
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: through somewhere between five to ten.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: You ready, Oh god, I feel like I'm on a
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: game show.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: You are around so and this is not in any
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: particular order. These are not, you know, most or least important.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: But one of the things I'm going to talk about,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: and this is my term, is the expectation disappointment correlation,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and the thinking being that quite often disappointment is a
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: byproduct of our expectations. Right, So, for example, I expect
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Bobby to be a certain way when Bobby typically isn't
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that way, but I think he should be. And then
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: we turn up and we get together and he's just
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: like he was the last thirty times. I'm now disappointed,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: knowing that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So in essence, I feel like we create our own disappointment.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: I would agree, Okay, next one, are you done? You
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: don't want to expand on that.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: No, you know what I think, I think you. I
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: think you said it all. I have some disappointment When
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: people say like we create our own disappointment, I would say,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: to a degree, there are things that we're not expecting
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: that happen, and it causes us to feel a certain way,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: and sometimes we feel disappointed. But maybe that's how we
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: interpret past experiences. So it's not a consciously stated level
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: of expectation. But that's like with goal setting and habit formation.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It's not that you want to set an expectation that's
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: low for yourself. You want to set an expectation that
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: is challenging but palatable, because as you experience micro wins
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: that your expect your expectations yourself as well as your
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: your evidence through self efficacy that you're capable of engaging
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: in this work and doing it to bring about an
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: outcome that'll start to expand as well. So when you
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: have that kind of like proportional increase in action and expectation,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: you know, disappointment is not as likely to occur because
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: you're strategically identifying your starting point and expanding it incrementally
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: over time. It's probably one of really good reasons why
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: start with the one thing and both from there.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Perfect love?
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, My next one is just happens to be the
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: order they're written in everyone. There's no kind of rationale
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: beyond it. My next idea that I want to share
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: with people or thought is that some people will be
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: bothered by your success and I guess expanding on that
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason. And there's a word for it. It's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: called sharden freuder. I don't know if I've shared that
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: with you. Once I think I did.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: When I learn a new word, then I want to
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: use it throughout the next few months to lock it
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: into my cognitive hard drive. But anyway, so, shardon freuder
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: is basically a term that explains the idea that people
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: are going to take delight in your pain, suffering, and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: or failure. So some people want you. It gives them
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: joy seeing you fail, gives them joy seeing you in pain.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: And I know this is a terrible idea, but I've
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: experienced it. I've I won't, but I could wheel out
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: at least twenty times where something's gone great for me
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and I know.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: It bothered people. I fucking know it bothered.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Them, And I'm like, wow, that is such an interesting
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: observation of the human experience.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: By the way, am I perfect? Far from it? Do
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I fuck up? Do have I done? I don't know
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: if I've done that.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I don't seem to have that part well that I
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: don't seem to be wired that way, but I definitely
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: still do dumb shit. So the idea is that people
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: will be bothered by your success.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Bobby.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Ah, there's so many things to say about this. I mean,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: from one thing, if people are taking delight in your
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: pain and suffering, you could say, well, I might be
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: suffering right now, but look at how happy I'm making
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: so many people.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Ah, my pain is their gain. Wow.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That's very noble, very magnanimous, a bit like Jesus.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Even at my lowest point, I'm really making a contribution here.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I think as someone who's experienced this, and I think
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I was fairly naive when I was getting into not
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the working works I've been in the working world since
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I was ten, but into a career where it's all
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: like intentional and there's a long term strategy and aspiration.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I always imagine that if I supported my team as
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: much as I possibly could and worked as hard as
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I could and brought a unique level of value, people
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: will say, Okay, well, this person's really contributing to me
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: in a unique way. They're a valuable component of the team.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: What I started to find out is not everyone's happy
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: when you're excelling in an area, even if you're bringing
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: them along with you. And I think one of the
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: reasons why this happens. We can talk about the varying
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: levels of what creates this dynamic, but I think one
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: of the reasons is we live in a society where
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: we're pushed into comparisons and if I'm doing better or
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: you're doing better, and I don't feel that inward sense one,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I don't feel confident in my compass and my beliefs.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Those beliefs were chosen for me and at some level
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I doubt or there's something within my capability that's questionable
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: to me. Your success is a threat to me because
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: of comparison. So rather than elevating myself, I'm gonna tear
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you down. And I don't think people do that because
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: they're bad people. So someone like me who's had struggles
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: with people pleasing, it's like that would cause me to
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: despair and get quite anxious and try to make effort.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I would get angry because I felt hurt
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: because I felt, oh, I'm giving so much to these people,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: or I think I am intent. I'm putting out all
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: this energy and this is what I get back. There's
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: something called anger alchemy, which is where you never let
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: a painful emotion go to waste. How can I use this?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: And I think, for me, if I'm a people pleaser
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and I know that the better I do and the
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: greater I perform, the more people will be not happy
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: for me, but almost waiting for me to fail and
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: wishing for it. Then having dissenters is almost a litmus
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: test for the fact that you are on point and
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: you are contributing, and you are doing something well. Because
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: if you are completely floundering and in a state of languishing,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: they probably be trying to pick you up. Those same people,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: But once you're in a state of thriving, that's the problem.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: So if you don't have dissenters, if you're not pissing
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: people off, and if there's not a certain percentage of
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: the people that are secretly hoping for you to fail,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: you're not making an impact that would threaten any of them.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And your goal should never be to like threaten somebody.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I'm the best. That's all bullshit, Like
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: what does that really give you? But if it's happening
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: by default in spite of you, use it at evidence
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: that you're on the right track, not the wrong track.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I heard somebody.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I heard somebody say some one last thing where it's
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: almost if you're if you're if you're giving value that
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: requires a very strong definience point of view, it's almost
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: your job by default to piss off a certain percentage
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: of the population, because if you don't piss those people off,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: you're not really impacting people that are aligned with and
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: really in need of what you're sincerely trying to give.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: So I think that's kind of a powerful perspective.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well I would say it's going to be an
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: unavoidable consequence. I wouldn't say it's your job, but I
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: agree with the sentiment for sure.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: All Right, here we go.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Understanding how other people think is a connection superpower.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Well, that's theory of mind. And I think if you're
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: going to communicate with people in a way that influences them,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: and what I mean by influence is influence is the
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: ability to positively affect the behavior character of an individual
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: and in a broader sense of group. And if that's
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: your goal, you're gonna have to understand something about how
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: the people that you are trying to influence and serve
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: see the world. And if you go beyond that is
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: the ability to imaginally project yourself into the thoughts, emotions, experiences,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: and mental state of another human being. That's empathy. Without that,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: there is no enduring connection, relationship building. Everything becomes transactional
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: at some point.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think sometimes people get caught up
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: in the.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Misunderstanding that understanding how someone else thinks is analogous to
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: agreeing with what they think, or supporting what they think,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: or aligning or as I say, no, it just means
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: you get where they're coming from. It's like, well, you know,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of evil shit that happens
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: in the world, and I think in order to be
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: able to combat the evil shit, we need to understand
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: what drives people to do it, Like we need to
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: understand their reason, understand their thinking, which of course is
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: not to agree or align or endorse, but rather, you know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I can't overcome what I don't understand. Absolutely, you know,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I can't deal with shit that I've got no idea. Well,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you need to figure out why, why does he or
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: she do that?
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: What is that about?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: What is the what is the underlying driver of that
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: evil or bad you know, outcome or behavior.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm in agreement with you there, although that's not
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: the point stepping back from acts of evil and evil intangents,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: just talking about different opinions. If you cannot see the perspective,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, some people their entire personality is their diet
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: plan or their political affiliation. It is literally the sum
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: total of everything they think about, and lead with and project.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: If you cannot step into empathetically the situation, thoughts, and
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: perspective of someone else, not to condemn or condone, but
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: to understand do you have beliefs or do your beliefs
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: have you if you're not even able to engage in
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: the level of critical thinking that that examines the the
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: gaps and the thought fallacies within your own perspective, unless
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: you're thinking, wait, I don't have I don't have thought fallacies.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And at that point, yeah, you're done, because you're definitely
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: not thinking.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it. I'm just writing that down. I
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: think that's going to be the title of the show.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Love it all right? No, no, no, Do you have
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: balis or do you belie you?
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: That's a fucking great question. I like that.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I love how you frime that. Next one the lot
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: and the goal is not to be happy, but rather
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: to successfully navigate the pigs and troughs are being perpetually human.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So the enlightened goal is not to be perpetually happy,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: but rather to successfully navigate the pigs and truths being
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: perpetually human, accepting the inevitability of all emotions and states.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I think happiness is a fucking scam. Let's just say that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Ah, it's that's the new title.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, I'm I'm gonna put your name attached to
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: that go on.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's a great way to control the aspirations
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: of people too. Have things that matter least supersede that
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: which matters the most. Yes, I think it's about meaning
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: because through meaning everything is useful. And you know, even
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: when you take a look at Barbara Frederickson and her
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: research around well being, it's not about the absence of
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: negative emotions, right, because negative emotions are valuable and they
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: also create contrast. How would we know elation and joy
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: if we never experienced row on pain? But you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: if I'm experiencing negative emotions out of four out of
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: the five things that I experience in my life, my
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: situation's pretty dire. Where if I flip that and four
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: out of my five experiences are five, you know, like
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: five out of six. Yeah, lift me up rather than
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: tear me down, Well, that's a completely different life experience.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I think Victor Franklin's book Man Search Mead, it's one
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: of my favorite quotes where he said success, like happiness,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: cannot be pursued. It must ensue as an unintended side
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: That's powerful.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for restarting that, Ryan Man, I
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: love your memory. Yeah, I love that that is I
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: think you've shared that before, and thank you for bringing
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: it back up. It's bloody amazing and it's so true.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: All right, let's do a couple more. This one's a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: bit tongue in cheek. There are no shit friends. There
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: are no shit friends. So in other words, people who
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: you know. When people say to me, ah, one of
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: my friends is always running me down or always saying
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: shit behind my back or da da da, I'm like, yeah,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: that's not a friend, that's just someone you know.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Oh I like that. I'm just gonna sit with that,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: because when you said they're on a shit friends, I
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, they.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Are, yeah, but they're not friends.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: They're just people you know that you interact with, that
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: you're familiar with, that you perhaps work with, like the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: And that's not say friends have always got to be
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: blowing smoke up your ass or telling you you're fucking amazing.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: But if there are people that you know, like people
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: talk to me about how toxic some of their friends
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: off to them, I'm like, one, do better.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Two. They're not friends.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: They're just people that you know, and maybe people you
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: know well, but that that is not friendship, that is
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: not love, that is not care and well, my understanding
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: of friends is not what you're describing.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Mmm. I think you hit it right there. For me anyway,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: it's it's love because with friends, and I know again
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: the ratio between or the connection between expectation and disappointment.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: If I don't realize that my friends are doing the
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: best they can with the resources they have in the moment,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and that's going to vary in terms of how they
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: show up day to day. I have a high level
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: of expectation and I'm placing on someone that they might
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: not even know about, not to mention, agree with, and
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: when they don't meet an unexpressed expectation, I become disappointed.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: That's one thing. There needs to be grace, because everybody
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: is going through their own struggle. On the other hand,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I think what defines a friend is love. And if
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: that's too weird between two people to discuss, and you know,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, you could take the piss and frame it
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: and as banter or anywhere you want. But if there's
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: not love between two people, there is not a friendship.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Because people who love each other celebrate each other, they
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: recognize the differences and autonomy in one another, and they're
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: mutually invested in each other's experiences and outcomes. Yeah, and
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: that that that's that's what great communities are made up of,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: its mutual investments. So to me, that's the that is
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: the cornerstone of friendship.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: All Right, My last one totally disagree. My last one
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: totally agrees. I should say my last one is my
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: last one is built around a term that I coined.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe other people use it.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I've never heard it, but it's definitely not talking about
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: anything that's new. But the term I use is this
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: destination disappointment. And what that means is when you achieve
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: something or you get somewhere it literally or metaphorically, and
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the thing that you thought it would do for you
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: it doesn't do. So for example, oh, I got to
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: that weight that I wanted, I got to that bench
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: press that I got to, that income, that weekly income,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I got to the top of the mountain I got
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to I built the business, I owned the business. I've
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: got lots of dough, I've got lots of it, and
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I still don't, you know, like the thing that I
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to achieve do be create change. I did it,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: but I still feel shit. I call that destination disappointment,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: where we think creating a certain outcome in our external
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: world will result in a particular internal state, feeling experience.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think I think that goes back to meaning,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: you know, it was never for about the destination a right,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: it was about what that destination represents or supports. And
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: if we were meant to get most of our sense
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: of self and joy from the places we arrive, we
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: would be on a neurobiological level rewarded for arriving rather
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: than pursuing. That's not the way it works. The motivating
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the likes about if we if we were meant to
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: be rewarded for where we arrive, we would be biologically
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: incentivized for the destination, not the journey. And that that's
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: not the way it is. Like dopamine rewards goal seeking behavior,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: not necessarily as much goal attaining behavior. Although that really
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: feels great, you know, and it's a milestone, but I
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: don't think that's that's fundamentally what it's about. Unless what
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: we're achieving takes care of our basic human needs, then
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: that might be a different story. Not sure, Yeah, yeah.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: All right, let's do one more last one. Sometimes logic,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: in inverted commas, logic is just a story we tell
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: ourselves based on what we understand, think and know, or
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: what we think we know anyway, So sometimes logic is
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: just a story we tell ourselves based on what we
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: personally understand think.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And no, oh my god, as so cliche.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: But the example, like, yeah, the example I gave is,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you know, like a metal tube flying through the sky
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: with humans in it. I think we spoke about this once,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: but i'd love your thoughts on that. You know, when
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: people go that doesn't make sense, they're kind of saying
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense to me, or that's not possible.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: They're saying, well, with what I understand, that's not possible.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean the cliche is like, we're not rational beings,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: we're rationalizing beans. I think we tell ourselves stories to
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: make our predispositions and emotional attachments make sense to us.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, have you ever gone through like you're reading
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: a science book or a textbook and it walks you
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: through logic, like how logic is framed like a logical argument,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: And I'll go through that and I'll look at it
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: and say, well, there's there is very rarely, if ever,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: a situation where I think like this, Oh my days,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I am so highly irrational. It's it's almost like, God,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: you ever see that I'm drawing a blank, Like this
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: time of night. My brain is completely squeezed into submission.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: But where if I gave you a rule, right, there
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: were four cards in front of you, and I would
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: say something like, for every vowel right on the other side,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: there's an even number right, so and you would have
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: let's say, e that's a vowel, and you would look
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: at that and you would go, Okay, I'm going to
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: turn that over right, and that's pretty smart. But next
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: to it, if there was an even number right, you
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: would go, oh, I'm going to turn that over to
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: see if there's a vowel. But what you're doing is
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: you're just trying to confirm the rule, where the more
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: the logically, the more important card to flip is the seven,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: because if you flip a seven and there's a vowel
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: on the other side, that will disprove the rule. But
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: you're trying to prove the rule after the first card,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: because the first card you flip prove the rule. So
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: you're trying to prove it again, that's a confirmation bias,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, of course you would do that.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you're stupid because you do that. Most
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: people would do it, but you want to try to
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: disprove it, and we we just do not think like
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: that most.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: Of the time.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so interesting mate. It's always good to
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: catch up with you. The self help antidote is the
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: name of Bobby's show, uh and your website your web.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Address same self ubanted it. I ran out of eames,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: so I just used it, used the same name for everything,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: and on Insta the self up answered it, No, wait,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: that's actually sorry, that's that's Robert Robert G. Capuccio, Robert
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Joseph Capuccio. So something with Robert and Capuccia.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Just type in Robert Capucco. He'll come up.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Made always good to chat to you. Go get some
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: sleep or some caffeine, preferably not both. I'd probably just
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: stop for the sleep if I was. You good to chat,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Love you because see you next time, buddy.