Latest / Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries / Episode 148: Optimism (ft. Arun Natarajan)

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Episode 148: Optimism (ft. Arun Natarajan) · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:00
  One of the greatest luxuries a man can have is a brother not by blood, but by bond.
• 0:08
  Someone who checks on you, backs you, and never lets you fight a battle alone.
• 0:14
  You don't always need someone to fix your problems.
• 0:16
  Sometimes you just need a man who says,"I've got you." No lecture, no judgment, no questions you aren't ready to answer, just presence.
• 0:27
  A real brother notices the things you don't say.
• 0:31
  He hears,"I'm good," but he knows you're not.
• 0:35
  He notices when you're quieter, when you stop joking, when something feels different, and he checks in anyway.
• 0:43
  He'll celebrate your wins without turning them into a competition.
• 0:46
  Your promotion, your new business, your relationship, your personal victory.
• 0:51
  He doesn't wonder,"Why wasn't that me?" He thinks,"That's my brother.
• 0:56
  I'm proud of him." And when you fall, he doesn't disappear.
• 1:02
  He might tell you the truth.
• 1:04
  He might call you out.
• 1:05
  He might even say,"Hey brother, you're being an idiot." But he'll still be standing beside you afterward because loyalty isn't agreeing with everything you do.
• 1:16
  It's refusing to abandon you when you get it wrong.
• 1:21
  Some brothers don't talk every day.
• 1:23
  Weeks pass, life gets busy, of course.
• 1:25
  Messages get shorter.
• 1:27
  But when you finally call, it's like nothing changed.
• 1:30
  That's when you know the bond is real.
• 1:34
  Life will give you plenty of acquaintances, people who know your name, they know what you do, they know your stories, but very few will know what you're fighting when nobody is watching.
• 1:46
  Those people are rare.
• 1:48
  Protect them.
• 1:50
  If you have a brother like this, don't wait until something goes wrong to tell him.
• 1:55
  Call him.
• 1:56
  Check on him.
• 1:57
  Show up.
• 1:59
  Tell him you appreciate him because one day you'll realize having someone who would stand beside you when the whole world walks away was never ordinary.
• 2:09
  It was one of life's greatest gifts Is the brotherhood we stand to have between each other a gift to you?
• 2:21
  what are your thoughts in hearing that?
• 2:24
  I couldn't agree more with, everything you have just stated, Freemasonry has been a guiding force in my life, uh, instilling the values and principles that have shaped my character and my perspective.
• 2:42
  It has, uh, provided a framework for my own personal growth, um, as well as my development, encouraging me to continually seek knowledge, cultivate virtue, and strive for excellence.
• 3:03
  It has equipped me with a compass, guiding me through the trials and tribulations of day-to-day life.
• 3:12
  Uh, through its teachings and rituals, Freemasonry has shaped my character to become a, a better father, a better husband, a better son, even a better employee at, uh, my place of work.
• 3:28
  Freemasonry, uh, has fostered a sense of unity and brotherhood that has, uh, literally transcended, uh, boundaries, of all kinds.
• 3:42
  As, as you are probably aware, I travel the world extensively for work, a recent trip, uh, was to Northern Ireland, had the opportunity to visit the Freemasons' Hall in Northern Ireland.
• 3:59
  I'll just say this, is, is that, um, most of us who have read history associated with Northern Ireland are well aware of the conflicts that have taken place there for a number of years.
• 4:10
  But the Masonic Hall was the one place where everybody got together, even in the midst of conflict, and, uh, set aside their differences and, uh, were brothers.
• 4:22
  so in general When people ask me, to describe myself, the first, uh, sentence that comes out of my mouth is not that I'm an engineer.
• 4:34
  The first thing that comes out of my mouth is that I'm a Freemason, and then I will say I'm an engineer.
• 4:41
  how is that received when you say that?
• 4:44
  It's, it's, uh, it's received with curiosity, I would say.
• 4:48
  nine out of 10 times they would, uh, be puzzled by that, and part of me subconsciously says that because I want them to ask the question back.
• 4:57
  Uh, they would say,"What is, uh, what is a Freemason?
• 5:01
  What, what does that mean?" And of course, I'll tell them what that is all about Can you say more about how Freemasonry has made you a better employee?
• 5:11
  We hear a lot of brothers say,"It's made me a better dad.
• 5:14
  It's made me a better husband or partner." But how does that, how has that shaped your day-to-day at work?
• 5:21
  You know, it's very simple.
• 5:22
  Uh, the tenets of our profession are brotherly love, relief, and truth.
• 5:26
  And how do we translate that for a non-Mason?
• 5:29
  Brotherly love means what I just said, that, uh, there's-- we are all inhabitants of the same planet.
• 5:37
  We are offsprings from the same, uh, Mother Nature, so to speak.
• 5:41
  So at my workplace, I have an immense, uh, number of, uh, diversity.
• 5:48
  I interact with people in Asia, I interact with people in Europe, and within my workplace here, I have, representation from people of all backgrounds, uh, perhaps from all 50 states and from perhaps 50 different countries.
• 6:08
  And, uh, they're all very good, smart, intelligent people.
• 6:13
  But for many of them, English may not be their first language.
• 6:16
  Um, but they're very good at speaking English.
• 6:20
  Sometimes when you're in a meeting, for example, with, uh, say, 20 engineers, those that may not be confident in their s- language skills may not participate in the meeting because they'll be very quiet.
• 6:35
  So Freemasonry has taught me to meet on the level, so everybody is on the level.
• 6:44
  So I will never accept a person who's very quiet to, to be like they don't have an opinion.
• 6:53
  So I will treat them in the manner that, okay, I have to ask them more questions.
• 6:59
  And I have always found that when you ask more questions, they will have more to contribute, and perhaps the only reason they did not contribute to begin with is because they were self-conscious.
• 7:12
  So Freemasonry's, amongst its numerous principles, how it has made me a better employee is, uh, treating everybody on the level has gone a long way, and, uh, not having any bias has gone a long way.
• 7:32
  And maybe I'll end at that.
• 7:34
  I wanted to go further to say that, uh- Go further.
• 7:36
  We're rolling No, no, I wanted to go further- Floor is yours, brother further to say that, uh, you know, the third, the third lecture of the, uh, third degree, So for a non-Mason, we have these beautiful lectures that are attached to the initiatic portion of Freemasonry, going through these ceremonies, and there's a lecture that's very impactful.
• 7:58
  And in that third lecture, there's, there's several things that, uh, that are allegorically described.
• 8:04
  There's of course the beehive and things of that nature, but the thing that has the most impact on me is, uh, the hourglass, which is an emblem of human life, the, uh- Setting maul, the spade, the coffin, and the sprig of acacia.
• 8:25
  Let me explain.
• 8:26
  The, the hourglass is an emblem of human life.
• 8:30
  It essentially says that if you look at the hourglass, the sands, the particles are moving fast, and it ends fast, and that's allegorical to our human life.
• 8:43
  It says that everyth- it's going to come to an end.
• 8:46
  So how do you want to live it?
• 8:48
  And then it basically teaches you to be humble, modest, and to not be carried away by your accomplishments, and to keep in front of you the fact that your time in this earth is finite, and therefore, you must try to do the best you can, both for yourselves and to the people around you.
• 9:11
  The setting maul, the spade, the coffin, and the sprig of acacia.
• 9:15
  these are grim representations.
• 9:20
  But in the midst of that, it talks about the sprig of acacia.
• 9:25
  it might be still more gloomy were it not for the sprig of acacia that bloomed at the head of the grave that served to remind us of the imperishable part of man that survives the grave.
• 9:38
  And I take that to mean that in, uh, as I go through my life every day, you know, I may go through stress at work, I may go through stress in my home of any variety and kind.
• 9:51
  raising children is difficult.
• 9:53
  Maintaining a relationship with your wife is difficult.
• 9:57
  Um, having relationships with employees at work is difficult.
• 10:02
  but when you look at all of that, you always need to look at the bright side because there is always a bright side.
• 10:09
  That's the sprig of acacia.
• 10:11
  There's no human being that has led a perfect life.
• 10:15
  Everybody goes through some problem, some trouble, some pain.
• 10:20
  But then that has taught me to say,"Okay, I'm going through this pain, but am I counting my blessings?" You're able to find a positive even in those difficult or even dark moments of life.
• 10:33
  When things feel hopeless, don't know what to do, you get in that holding pattern of indecision sometimes because it feels like every decision you might make might not be the correct one.
• 10:48
  But that's something you think about regularly.
• 10:50
  that's really cool Yeah, because of that, I have discovered a profound sense of purpose and a deeper connection to the world around me.
• 11:00
  You know, the, the allegorical teachings of, uh, our Masonic craft have provided the, uh, tools, the teachings, and the practices that assist me in my quest for self-discovery, moral growth, and spiritual enlightenment You think we have an opportunity to showcase what Freemasonry is in what you just described?
• 11:29
  those lectures are there to teach, but essentially It's extending an invitation to take an assessment of one's life.
• 11:38
  What are you doing with the time you have while you're here?
• 11:40
  Are you being serviceable to those in need?
• 11:43
  And are you committed to being the change, to be the guy?
• 11:48
  You know that be that guy, don't be that guy in life.
• 11:52
  And you said it.
• 11:53
  We're not perfect and we never will be, has never been.
• 11:56
  However, are we willing to pursue that, as difficult as it can be sometimes?
• 12:02
  'Cause what you just described, we've all been through it crisis When things get murky in, well, which decision should I make?
• 12:13
  Whether that's at home with kids, at your job, even in lodge sometimes.
• 12:20
  Freemasonry's not here to tell our members what to do.
• 12:24
  It's extending that invitation for the opportunity if, if you, if we each want to become a better version of ourself, the best version of ourself.
• 12:33
  We have to do the work.
• 12:35
  those words are put together in a way that's very compelling and thought-provoking, but I think we have an opportunity to take a step back and ensure that this is, this isn't just Masonic cosplay.
• 12:46
  We're not just memorizing words to say them perfectly.
• 12:49
  These are marching orders for a more harmonious life and for a more harmonious society.
• 12:56
  100% again.
• 12:58
  Um, the, uh, concept of Freemasonry, uh, the one that resonates in addition to everything else, is the fact that, It brings-- I think you might have covered it with a different brother in a previous podcast.
• 13:13
  This is a case of where there is intergenerational connections.
• 13:20
  you can interact with somebody who's twenty years older to you or twenty years younger to you, without observing that age difference.
• 13:29
  You can interact with people from a variety of backgrounds in a very intimate setting, for years and years and years.
• 13:38
  I mean, so you don't have to all be engineers or doctors or electricians or what have you, uh, or accountants.
• 13:47
  Uh, you can have a mixture of people from a variety of backgrounds, and you have something common towards a common purpose.
• 13:55
  so for me, there is nothing that's more important in the world we live in today than the concepts of Freemasonry, which, uh, literally speak about unity.
• 14:07
  There is no divide.
• 14:09
  It's all about unity.
• 14:11
  It's all about improving ourselves.
• 14:12
  It's all about improving our community.
• 14:15
  It's all about being there for one another.
• 14:18
  It's all about doing good, acting good, and being good Is it important to point out that as far as unity, we've been a proponent of that for hundreds of years.
• 14:34
  There are a lot of people in today's society, social media influencers that are saying th- all these buzzwords, unity and let's all come together, but quite often these influencers are some of the most divisive people you'll ever meet.
• 14:50
  But we really have the blueprint in Freemasonry for regarding everyone of the human race, as you said, on the level Do we appreciate the gift of the value teachings of Freemasonry enough as members?
• 15:08
  Are, are we-- Do we realize what we're sitting on top of if we commit to it?
• 15:13
  I wanna say for the most part, we seem to do that.
• 15:17
  I mean, it, it's a stark reminder for me every time I go to my own home lodge, or I, uh, I am a district deputy, and I go to the lodges that are assigned to me.
• 15:31
  they couldn't be more varied lodges.
• 15:33
  Like, my home lodge is Cataract.
• 15:36
  Um, I go to Anoka, or I go to Sherburne, or I go to Plymouth.
• 15:41
  I mean, they, they're all different lodges.
• 15:43
  Um- Different how?
• 15:45
  They all function the same, but w- would you say that it's- It's different in, in that, uh, the characteristic of how the lodge functions.
• 15:53
  Like, for example, Anoka might be, uh, not might be, Anoka is a lodge that's, uh, significantly involved with its community, so they put up big events, that involve the community.
• 16:07
  and there are other lodges that perhaps may want to get involved with the community but are maybe just figuring it out.
• 16:13
  For example, Sherburne has just moved into a newer lodge, in, uh...
• 16:18
  Crystal.
• 16:19
  Uh, so they're new to the community, so they're figuring that out.
• 16:23
  so the, the, their level of engagement with the community shapes the lodge.
• 16:28
  Some lodges, uh, like Cataract is a lodge that prides itself on ritual work.
• 16:34
  that may not necessarily be the case with other lodges.
• 16:37
  I mean, they do the ritual, but, uh, they're more engaged in community work as their primary.
• 16:42
  Does that make sense?
• 16:43
  It does, and I know we're all striving to have our lodges a balance of all of those.
• 16:49
  But it's inevitable that one of the aspects, either the ritualistic portion, the building community, or the education can sometimes be the focus.
• 17:00
  But in a perfect world, we wanna see those a nice mix for everyone.
• 17:05
  Right.
• 17:06
  but I was just trying to say that even though the, the character of the lodge might be different in the way they approach okay, we are gonna focus on community engagement versus the craft, uh, and that does not mean that Cataract does not do community work.
• 17:22
  Uh, it's sign- There's so many com- levels of community involvement that Cataract has, but that may not be its primary defining character, if that makes sense.
• 17:33
  Regardless of that, the one thing I find is, uh, we are all Masons, so we are all connected in that regard, and you're welcomed because you're a Mason, and it doesn't have to be to a lodge within the metro.
• 17:50
  Um, you know, as a monitor of the work, I've gone to, let's say, Fergus Falls.
• 17:55
  They've seen me for the first time.
• 17:57
  They've never interacted with me.
• 17:59
  They don't know who I am.
• 18:00
  All they know is I've been sent by the board of custodians to do ritual work.
• 18:04
  They know that, they know that as a monitor, you know all of the ritual in a certified way.
• 18:11
  In a certified way, but you'd get welcomed like you...
• 18:15
  they know you for the last 100 years, so to speak.
• 18:18
  I mean, they'll welcome you like an old friend.
• 18:20
  They'll treat you like an old friend, you'll just feel right at home when you are in a Masonic lodge.
• 18:27
  Uh, same experience, uh, when I go to a lodge overseas, uh- I was gonna ask about that.
• 18:32
  You've had the opportunity to travel internationally to visit lodges across the globe.
• 18:38
  Same thing?
• 18:38
  Same thing.
• 18:39
  I've gone to lodges, I don't know, perhaps in 15 different countries.
• 18:44
  Uh, the UK, the Northern Ireland, uh, the Philippines, India, uh, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, uh, et cetera, et cetera.
• 18:55
  Number of lodges, and everywhere, even though the ritual may be slightly different, you're still a brother.
• 19:04
  Was there a favorite?
• 19:07
  You know, I wouldn't say, uh, there was a favorite, uh, as much as, as the thing that was very interesting was that in Philippines, in a lodge in a, a city called General Santos, I happened to witness their EA degree, and it was all in their local language, which was Tagalog.
• 19:28
  I don't know a word of Tagalog, but I know the EA degree.
• 19:34
  So I was watching Tagalog, and in my brain I was having subtitles in English- on what was being played, so, um, so it was very fascinating.
• 19:46
  Oh, I know that.
• 19:47
  I know what you're doing.
• 19:48
  I know what that obligation you're, you know, what, what kinda obligation you're taking.
• 19:53
  It all matched up, just- It all matched up just a language difference.
• 19:56
  Yeah, just a language difference, and they have, uh, they actually have a trestle board that they explain, uh, which is, uh, uh, one thing that I think we don't have, but except for a trestle board piece, which is part of the ritual, um, it's close to identical.
• 20:16
  How did you find Freemasonry?
• 20:17
  Did you know someone?
• 20:19
  discover it on your own?
• 20:20
  Was it-- What was your journey?
• 20:22
  it was, uh, purely by accident, is that, uh, I am an engineer.
• 20:27
  I joined the place where I work as an engineer, I don't know, it was perhaps 27 years ago.
• 20:35
  And, uh, one of the engineers I was interacting with had, uh, a ring, and the ring had the square and the compass on it.
• 20:44
  And I naively saw that square and compass, and I thought it was some kinda engineering society.
• 20:51
  So I asked the person, um:"Hey, what, what asso- what engineering association is that?" And then he said,"No, it's not an engineering association.
• 21:01
  It's called Freemasonry." And so I asked that person what Freemasonry was all about, and he explained it to me, but I didn't immediately jump on it.
• 21:13
  It was probably a few years after that, that, uh, I kept reading about Freemasonry.
• 21:19
  And then one fine day, I was like,"You know, let's just see what happens." And I went to the Grand Lodge website, and I typed in an inquiry.
• 21:29
  And at that time, they asked for your preference, I think.
• 21:34
  And I said,"I work in Bloomington, so I prefer to get a lodge in Bloomington." and the lodge in Bloomington I got assigned to was Cataract.
• 21:44
  Uh, so I got an email back from Doug Campbell, he invited me to the lodge, and I went to the lodge, and the rest is history.
• 21:54
  Just one simple conversation and look at how impactful that's been for you on this journey this whole time I have also become-- I, I also have affiliation with a few other lodges overseas.
• 22:07
  I'm affiliated with a lodge in Singapore.
• 22:11
  I'm affiliated with, uh, Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction in Taiwan, and I am also a member of a lodge in Southern India.
• 22:21
  Um- Are you the Grand Lodge delegate for Minnesota to India?
• 22:25
  I am, I think, yeah.
• 22:26
  It was, I think, uh, Most Worshipful Brother Foster appointed me- Right.
• 22:30
  Mm-hmm and it still continues, I think.
• 22:31
  Yeah.
• 22:32
  Have you visited in that official capacity?
• 22:34
  I have.
• 22:35
  I visited, uh, It was June of 2025, and I took, uh, the Minnesota, manual, And along with that, I took a bunch of coins and a few more, uh, Grand Lodge swag.
• 22:50
  Was that well-received?
• 22:51
  It was.
• 22:52
  They were thrilled, and they per- reciprocated back with a, a crystal gavel So...
• 22:59
  We love our pins, don't we?
• 23:00
  Yeah.
• 23:00
  All of the different- Yes, we do little jewelry, the pins, the, the paperwork.
• 23:05
  The crystal, that sounds am- wow, amazing.
• 23:07
  Yeah.
• 23:10
  As we get older and think about the aspects of that third lecture that you mentioned, the sands of the hourglass, time goes quickly.
• 23:20
  Days are long, years get fast.
• 23:24
  How important is it for us to live in the moment more?
• 23:28
  Whether that's putting a device away for a little bit Not just sitting together while looking at said device, but really having quality time and focus on the people that we love and that we spend that precious time with It is very important what you just said.
• 23:50
  I think you have to live in the moment.
• 23:52
  You have to find happiness.
• 23:54
  You have to find happiness through your brotherhood.
• 23:58
  Uh, I find happiness through our fraternity.
• 24:00
  your opening comments are 100% correct.
• 24:04
  There's out of the blue, a brother will send me a text message saying,"Hey, I just felt like saying hi.
• 24:10
  We haven't talked in a long time." and that's just wonderful.
• 24:13
  It just makes your day when you receive that.
• 24:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:16
  Yeah.
• 24:16
  We have to live in the moment.
• 24:18
  We have to find happiness every single day.
• 24:22
  We have to find happiness in our life.
• 24:24
  It's like the sprig of acacia.
• 24:26
  how do we find that though?
• 24:28
  What do we have to do?
• 24:30
  we don't have to necessarily do anything spec- specific.
• 24:34
  masonry has taught me to be an optimist.
• 24:37
  It has taught me to be humble.
• 24:40
  It has taught me to be more, uh Has it, has it given you something that you didn't know you needed A lot.
• 24:49
  It has given me a lot that I didn't know I needed prior.
• 24:52
  Uh, it, it has given me humility.
• 24:54
  It has given me, a reason to be spiritual.
• 24:58
  It's, uh, given me a reason to, find the good in others.
• 25:03
  It has taught me to not be judgmental of anyone, about anything.
• 25:09
  It has taught me to always look on the positive side of things.
• 25:13
  there is a plethora of negativity that I deal with, on a day-to-day basis.
• 25:17
  Yeah.
• 25:18
  100%, uh, and as I'm sure most of your listeners are.
• 25:23
  But Freemasonry gives me the, uh, solution to the problem.
• 25:30
  it reminds me that the particles of sand are flowing away fast, so find the happiness.
• 25:37
  It reminds me that, whatever honors, titles, accolades you might receive, at the end of the day, you're not taking it with you, so don't dwell on them.
• 25:49
  Dwell on what is important, which is developing a deeper connection to the people that surround you, and, uh, through that connection, improve yourself.
• 25:58
  Um, it has, taught me the, uh- Power of charity.
• 26:05
  and charity is not just donating a bunch of money.
• 26:08
  Uh, charity is, uh, donating your time, donating your knowledge, donating, your own life's experience trying to improve somebody, or learning from them in the process.
• 26:25
  yeah, overall, there is a blueprint to, uh, living in the moment that Freemasonry teaches here I love so much, and I've talked about it probably way too often, the institutional knowledge in the Masonic Lodge.
• 26:42
  An older brother that will basically say,"You know, when I was your age, when I was going through that," what- whatever topic comes up, they'll say,"I wish someone had told me the following." A lesson they learned the hard way, or maybe a risk that they took that scared them to death in the moment, but turned out to be one of the best decisions they ever made.
• 27:04
  God, I love those conversations,'cause th- those often happen at dinner, at outer lodge when we're having refreshments.
• 27:11
  We don't always get into that in the heart of a stated meet, a business meeting.
• 27:15
  we've talked about it quite a bit, where you have a, a younger Mason getting that institutional knowledge, anecdotes that will help him, and that younger Mason has something to teach the old guy, too.
• 27:27
  there's a reciprocal conversation that takes place that is such a...
• 27:31
  Yeah, and I'll add to that to say that, uh, my son started his Masonic journey as a DeMolay, He joined DeMolay when he was in the ninth grade, and towards the end of his ninth grade, we had COVID, and, uh, things shut down.
• 27:46
  It was probably the most difficult time for not just my son, but probably m- most kids his age.
• 27:53
  When they should be out and about, they're cooped up at home.
• 27:56
  I think being a DeMolay saved him.
• 28:00
  Uh- Yeah?
• 28:01
  Absolutely, because- Can you say more about that?
• 28:03
  Yeah.
• 28:03
  So, while schools were shut down and, you know, there was, uh, Classes were happening online, social interaction was close to a minimum.
• 28:15
  the only entertainment, from a social connection that my son had that was not academic was through the DeMolay.
• 28:24
  So, his DeMolay brothers, he was a member of the, uh, the DeMolay at Compass and, uh, they would meet still on a regular basis, even though it may not be in person.
• 28:36
  The DeMolay dad and the DeMolay mom set up, uh, Zoom calls, and these were not one-hour Zoom calls.
• 28:44
  You, you can go on for as long as you would want.
• 28:47
  And, uh, my son would play the Xbox and the PS2 games with his DeMolay brothers because you can play that virtually.
• 28:56
  So there was a lot of connection that occurred through the DeMolay.
• 28:59
  I wouldn't know what my son would have done if were it not for his DeMolay brothers Some of the most boring moments of your life are going to destroy you to remember.
• 29:13
  Someone you love walking into the room, your kid talking from the back seat, your pet asleep in the afternoon light, the sound of someone moving around the house while you're doing something completely unimportant, some ordinary Tuesday you barely noticed because there was absolutely no reason to.
• 29:36
  Nothing was happening.
• 29:37
  Nothing was ending.
• 29:39
  You had no idea you were already inside something you would someday give anything to return to The cruelest part about nostalgia is that you usually don't know you're making it.
• 29:53
  Nothing tells you,"Remember this.
• 29:56
  You're going to want it back." The kitchen is just the kitchen.
• 30:00
  Their voice is just their voice.
• 30:03
  Home is just where you wake up every morning.
• 30:06
  A smell is just a smell until twenty years later it hits you somewhere completely unexpected and suddenly you are there again.
• 30:17
  So you walk straight through thousands of ordinary moments without realizing some of them will eventually become places in time you would give anything to stand inside again.
• 30:29
  The things we miss most rarely felt extraordinary while we had them.
• 30:34
  They just felt like life was going to keep being that way I saw that on Instagram.
• 30:43
  It's so true That is true But you know what is not boring?
• 30:49
  Is coming to lodge on a regular basis.
• 30:53
  I just, I look forward to it.
• 30:55
  I g- I am recharged at the end of the night, it doesn't have to be just my lodge, my home lodge.
• 31:01
  I, I can go to any lodge, spend an evening with a bunch of brothers, that never gets boring Have you experienced what that described though?
• 31:12
  Like maybe a random conversation at dinner before lodge with a brother who's no longer with us, and at that, at the time it occurred, it was just another night at lodge, and now you, you miss that connection.
• 31:24
  Have you experienced that?
• 31:26
  Oh, yeah, all the time.
• 31:27
  You know, like for example, the, uh, reason I became a, a monitor of the work was because of, uh, Worshipful Brother Gary Bill, who was up in the Celestial Lodge right now.
• 31:39
  I remember Gary, yeah.
• 31:41
  He saw perhaps that, I was doing a reasonable job of the ritual perhaps, and he was the one that said, uh,"You know, you should think about, doing the third lecture of the first degree the next time we have a year degree, at Cataract." And that's a big lecture.
• 32:01
  That's a big lecture.
• 32:03
  and I obviously, when I looked at the blue book, I, I didn't know all the words of, the ritual.
• 32:09
  So Gary said,"Come home, and I will teach you." And I literally, at his, uh, welcome, uh, invitation, I, I went to his home perhaps three days a week for about two months.
• 32:25
  and he would specifically ask me to come at five o'clock in the evening so that I could have supper with him and his family.
• 32:33
  So I had supper with Gary Bill and his family for perhaps two months.
• 32:40
  Countless, yeah.
• 32:41
  Countless suppers.
• 32:42
  And after supper, we-- he would take me to his den, and he would spend two hours with me going over every line of the third degree.
• 32:51
  you know, the point of that is not that I...
• 32:54
  I, of course, subsequently memorized the third lecture and delivered it.
• 32:58
  the point was, in that time, through this intergenerational, concept that we talked about previously, Gary was perhaps thirty years older to me.
• 33:09
  But I became a better Mason because of the wisdoms that he shared during our interaction, not just about Freemasonry, but about life in general I have to imagine over the dinner table there was a lot of, a variety of topics talked about, discussed with him and or his family.
• 33:33
  we got to get to know each other, uh, like we would, we would not have otherwise.
• 33:39
  I mean, uh, uh, his daughter is, uh, the wife of our Grand Master, John Studdell.
• 33:46
  and Andy Bill, uh, is also a Mason, but is now in California.
• 33:50
  He's a music teacher.
• 33:52
  you know, on and on.
• 33:53
  I mean, so there was a lot of Masonic connection within Gary Bill's family and so those were some fun conversations associated with that.
• 34:00
  So, you know, it's, it's...
• 34:02
  And you can learn from all of those through wealth of experiences.
• 34:06
  So, you know, so the, the key part of that is to answer your question, I have never found any interaction with a Masonic, with a brother to be boring.
• 34:20
  There's always some value that you get from every single interaction with every brother that you meet in your life You work in technology on a daily basis.
• 34:34
  I know you have a fondness for physics.
• 34:38
  what problem can you not believe technology has not resolved yet?
• 34:47
  You know, the problem that technology has not resolved, that masonry has resolved, is literally how people can get along There are no boundaries in masonry.
• 35:00
  There are boundaries in technology.
• 35:04
  Technology does not teach, a person from a different part of the world to appreciate and, uh, get along with a person in the exact opposite part of the world.
• 35:16
  technology only provides tools for improvement, productivity.
• 35:21
  It might help you provide, uh, tools to cure cancer, but it, it will not tell two people how they should find commonality and get along.
• 35:33
  Masonry, on the other hand, does what technology cannot do, which, uh, it provides you the tools to get along.
• 35:42
  Well, you talked about social media.
• 35:45
  Social media is a output of technology, and would you say that social media has done service to bring people together- or has it done more to divide people?
• 35:58
  Social media is a laboratory for all things that make people miserable And while social media started out as a happy thing, vacations, food, kids, fun, it's become the, the bullhorn for,"Let me tell you about my elevated perspective on something that I don't care if it is divisive or if it's disruptive." And that is very unfortunate,'cause I- I've come to learn nobody really cares what any of us think about anything as far as politics or the big geopolitical matters.
• 36:35
  Nothing drives me crazier than to see, especially a brother Mason online will, will post,"I can't not say something about the..." Actually, you don't have to.
• 36:45
  Now, you certainly, I would encourage that, that person, that brother, get in a group chat, call a friend.
• 36:52
  You wanna vent about something that seems a little off-kilter in the world?
• 36:55
  Absolutely.
• 36:56
  Don't put it on Facebook.
• 36:57
  Don't put it on TikTok, I, uh, but outside of that, uh, you're absolutely correct.
• 37:05
  I, I-- My passion is, uh, technology.
• 37:08
  I, I've spent my entire life in solving very tough technical problems.
• 37:15
  Uh, it has improved the quality of our life.
• 37:18
  It has improved the quality of solutions that are available to us today.
• 37:22
  I mean, there's solutions associated with cancer, with, uh, disease, productivity improvement, uh- Yeah, optimize, yeah.
• 37:31
  Yeah, optimizing is modern automobiles, space travel, things of that nature.
• 37:38
  So technology has improved the quality of human life, significantly, and it will continue to do that for a, a number of years.
• 37:48
  Uh, so I, I, I, I wouldn't want to badmouth technology per se.
• 37:54
  All I'm saying is that the, the fault lies with the humans for not using technology to, uh, bring us closer together.
• 38:03
  Freemasonry gives us the blueprint to bring us closer together.
• 38:08
  Now, imagine the power of if we were to use technology also to do that.
• 38:13
  Uh, I don't think we've learned how to do that yet On a related note, what are you sick of seeing online?
• 38:22
  You know, that's a very good question.
• 38:24
  I, am not at all active online.
• 38:28
  I do have a Facebook account, but that Facebook account was created primarily because that was the only way the brothers in my Widow Son Scriptic Master Motorcycle Group communicate.
• 38:40
  So outside of that, I do not troll online.
• 38:43
  I, I have zero online presence.
• 38:46
  I might have become friends with two people in Facebook, I think, quite by accident, and it was more a case of I might have hit the wrong button and made friends with them, and I didn't want to unfriend them because I thought it'll be impolite.
• 39:00
  So I've heard nothing good, uh, out of people who have a social media active presence.
• 39:08
  the news seems to be biased depending on who is providing it.
• 39:12
  there seems to be more divisiveness than, um, you know, under the guise of unification.
• 39:19
  Right.
• 39:19
  You rarely will log off of any one of those apps and say,"I'm so glad I just spent that hour looking at that." Exactly.
• 39:26
  That divisive drivel- Yeah on all spectrums.
• 39:30
  You know, if I had to think about, okay, how do I spend my time online, it's, it's mostly probably doing a lot of training.
• 39:39
  I, I read a lot of stuff.
• 39:40
  I get myself upgraded in skills and things of that nature.
• 39:46
  So I spend a lot of time training and, that sort of a thing, so.
• 39:52
  What part of adulthood is not as cool as you thought it would be?
• 39:57
  I don't think growing old is fun.
• 40:01
  Do tell.
• 40:03
  No, I, I think that the, the, the wisdom associated with growing old I think is wonderful.
• 40:09
  but I just found out that, uh, I, I might have to get new glasses.
• 40:13
  Uh, I might have to go for more frequent checkups.
• 40:16
  Uh, I have to get a...
• 40:18
  You know, so when you turn 50 you have to get colonoscopies and be regular with your physical checkups and so on and so forth because, the particles of sand are almost exhausting themselves, so, y- you wanna try your best to slow, slow them down as much as possible.
• 40:35
  uh, so in that regard, I would say that, uh, I cannot be as carefree as I was when I was younger, eat what I want and do what I want.
• 40:45
  Now I have to watch what I eat and I need to make sure I get that exercise and are you going walking and those types of things.
• 40:51
  Yeah.
• 40:52
  Very humbling, right?
• 40:53
  But...
• 40:53
  Yeah, it's very humbling.
• 40:54
  But outside of that, uh, you know, people have asked me the question,"Wouldn't you give a million bucks to go back to being 16 again?" A- and the answer is no.
• 41:03
  Uh, I mean, the levels of insecurity that is associated- Oof with being young, at least, uh, one positive aspect of being growing old is that you're much more secure about the situation.
• 41:16
  so I like growing old in that regard.
• 41:20
  You're working in technology every day, making big decisions, doing huge projects, global scale, But that still does not eliminate the necessity for some mundane chores or tasks that come across your radar.
• 41:34
  what mundane aspect of the day, chore, do you hate the most?
• 41:40
  Can I be cliched?
• 41:41
  Of course.
• 41:42
  Um, yeah, I, I think a lot of your listeners may roll their eyes when they hear me say this, but, uh, I genuinely love what I do.
• 41:53
  I, I've worked in the same place for the last 28 years.
• 41:56
  I walked through the same doors for the last 28 years.
• 42:00
  I've interacted with perhaps the same group of people, a lot of the same group of people for the last 28 years, and I love every second of it.
• 42:10
  a- and- Even the piddly, mundane stuff?
• 42:12
  Yeah the, the s- you know, I think, uh, so as I went through my day today, Yeah, I can't, I can't think of anything that I felt was,"Oh, man, this was...
• 42:22
  I wish I didn't have to do this." You mean coming on the podcast?
• 42:25
  I know.
• 42:26
  Was that, was this it?
• 42:27
  No, no, no.
• 42:28
  The coming on the podcast was, uh, I didn't expect to be on the podcast, and I, I didn't think that I deserve to be on your podcast.
• 42:35
  I'm actually honored that you would invite me to be on your podcast.
• 42:38
  But, uh, yeah, I, I enjoy my work.
• 42:41
  I enjoy what I do.
• 42:43
  Uh, I feel very...
• 42:44
  You know, this is, uh, another cliché that comes out of growing old, to your previous question, because a young person should not be saying this, is that I feel very fortunate to have spent, uh, my professional life doing what I have been doing for the last 27, 28 years.
• 43:01
  part of the reason I say that there is nothing mundane is because, uh, technology is, has always been changing at such a rapid rate.
• 43:11
  the, a small example of that is 28 years ago when I joined where, uh, the, the place where I work, we make da-data storage devices.
• 43:20
  the m- the maximum storage you could have 28 years ago, let's say on a personal computer, was, and I had a computer when I was in college, was one gigabyte.
• 43:30
  You had a one gigabyte storage device in your computer, and, uh, that, uh, one gigabyte storage device was perhaps twice as big as your cell phone and twice as thick as your cell phone.
• 43:43
  today you can buy storage devices in the order of, personal storage devices in the order of several terabytes, uh, which is billion, billion times more.
• 43:53
  those drives, uh, fit into the palm of your hand.
• 43:58
  So the size of your storage has increased by 12 orders of magnitude, let's say.
• 44:06
  the physical size of the device has perhaps shrunk by a factor of 10.
• 44:13
  That can happen only because of significant advances in science and technology.
• 44:18
  And people like you doing the work.
• 44:20
  plenty of other people who are smarter than me, but, uh, so it's never boring.
• 44:26
  It's never dull.
• 44:27
  I can go on and on, and I, I, I'll stop right there.
• 44:30
  I don't wanna be a nerd.
• 44:34
  You were asked to be on the podcast because you are the real deal.
• 44:37
  You are a great friend, a true brother.
• 44:40
  I think you're as genuine as it gets.
• 44:41
  Arun Natarajan from Cataract Lodge Number Two, thanks for being here.
• 44:46
  Thank you for having me